Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> MJ Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Remember, you're the idiot who started the polemic "... bullshit.
> > If they would really care ..." lunacy that I was mimicking. That
> > is unacceptable behaviour and I ask you to correct it.
>
> I really don't t
On Fri, Apr 07, 2006 at 07:27:52PM +0900, JC Helary wrote:
> >Which makes "Maintainer" unsuitble for translation maintainers how,
> >exactly?
>
> Because translators mostly don't "maintain" translations but plainly
> "contribute" translations.
Err, no. It is generally preferred that those who t
On Sat, Apr 08, 2006 at 12:52:36AM +0300, Eddy Petrişor wrote:
> On 4/7/06, Micah Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I'm sorry. If we can't trust these people not to abuse upload
> > > privileges, then I certainly do not want to see them get a say in
> > > deciding how we conduct
On Fri, Apr 07, 2006 at 07:33:48PM +0900, JC Helary wrote:
>
> On 2006/04/07, at 1:39, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> >>But requiring people who are not software developers to understand
> >>they suddenly have become developers because Debian is special is a
> >>little far fetched.
> >
> >I don't see wh
On Fri, Apr 07, 2006 at 07:31:12PM +0900, JC Helary wrote:
> >>Did it ever occur to you that one can be an active Debian contributor
> >>and not use Debian at all ?
> >
> >No. And even if it did, I fail to see how that is relevant here. You
> >cannot be an active Debian contributor without knowing
On 4/9/06, Holger Levsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Sunday 09 April 2006 13:38, Eddy Petrişor wrote:
> > Well, given the history of NM waiting we will need tons and tons of popcorn
> > :)
>
> I know that this was ment as a joke.
Indeed.
> But still, repeating over and over again, tha
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Hi, sorry to arrive late to the party, but I would like to give a
non-DD translator point of view on this thread.
On 04/05/2006 08:02 AM, Frans Pop wrote:
> On Wednesday 05 April 2006 11:44, JC Helary wrote:
>>There is a huge confusion between being
Hi,
On Sunday 09 April 2006 13:38, Eddy Petrişor wrote:
> Well, given the history of NM waiting we will need tons and tons of popcorn
> :)
I know that this was ment as a joke.
But still, repeating over and over again, that NM/DAM/NEW/FOO/BAR is slow,
doesnt make it faster.
And because we're
On 4/9/06, Clytie Siddall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Below is my attempt at rewording the Introductionary page of the NM
> > corner
> > to make it clearer that non-mainter contributors can apply to NM.
>
> However, since I have now seen it abundantly stated that a translator
> can become a DD,
On 06/04/2006, at 2:10 AM, cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis) wrote:
http://www.debian.org/devel/join/newmaint
Below is my attempt at rewording the Introductionary page of the NM
corner
to make it clearer that non-mainter contributors can apply to NM.
Thankyou to Bart for his work on this page.
> > (1) We as a project (and an NM project) are hesitant to give these
> > people developership since it means they can upload to the
> > project which introduces a set of potential risks and problems
> > (one more account to compromise, etc).
>
> I'm sorry. If we can't trust these people
MJ Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [...]
>> you're free to submit patches. Until then, I'd prefer if you would not
>> reply in a purely polemic way, as your contribution to actually solve
>> the problem isn't identifiable.
> Remember, you're the idiot wh
> > I'd like to see those who have made long-term, sustained, and
> > significant contributions to Debian enfranchised. That could mean
> > broadening the category of developer through changes to NM or it
> > could also mean another enfranchised category of contributor. That's
> > what I read as t
Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [...]
> you're free to submit patches. Until then, I'd prefer if you would not
> reply in a purely polemic way, as your contribution to actually solve
> the problem isn't identifiable.
Remember, you're the idiot who started the polemic "... bullshit.
If t
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Hash: SHA1
Eddy Petrişor wrote:
> On 4/7/06, Micah Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> I'm sorry. If we can't trust these people not to abuse upload
>>> privileges, then I certainly do not want to see them get a say in
>>> deciding how we conduct
On 4/8/06, Micah Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> By your argument, then the USA should give all its citizens access to
> >> our nuclear arsenal, launch codes, etc. because we trust them to have
> >> a say in deciding how the government is run.
> >
> > Hmm, I see, you see yourself as govern
On 4/7/06, Micah Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I'm sorry. If we can't trust these people not to abuse upload
> > privileges, then I certainly do not want to see them get a say in
> > deciding how we conduct the project's business.
>
> By your argument, then the USA should give
MJ Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> That's total bullshit. If they would really care about joining, they
>> could simply start to read the documentation, which explicitly shows
>> them how to understand the term maintainer and/or developer.
> That's to
On 2006-04-06, Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 6 Apr 2006, Benj. Mako Hill told this:
>
>>
>>> And maybe I'm too heavily steeped in Debian culture to take an
>>> objective view, but I don't see any reason why translators,
>>> documentation writers, artists, et al. should look at t
On Friday 07 April 2006 12:51, JC Helary wrote:
> >> What do you call translation maintenance anyway ?
> >
> > keeping the translation up-to-date, and responding to bugrepports
> > about
> > existing translations?
>
> So that would mean that people who contribute new translations cannot
> be consid
What do you call translation maintenance anyway ?
keeping the translation up-to-date, and responding to bugrepports
about
existing translations?
So that would mean that people who contribute new translations cannot
be considered mantainer ?
Obviously, considering how Debian is growing eve
El viernes, 7 de abril de 2006 a las 19:27:52 +0900, JC Helary escribía:
> Because translators mostly don't "maintain" translations but plainly
> "contribute" translations.
> Ie. Translators mainly _translate_.
> What do you call translation maintenance anyway ?
Well, after a translation is m
On Friday 07 April 2006 12:27, JC Helary wrote:
> > Which makes "Maintainer" unsuitble for translation maintainers how,
> > exactly?
>
> Because translators mostly don't "maintain" translations but plainly
> "contribute" translations.
>
> Ie. Translators mainly _translate_.
>
> What do you call tra
On Friday 07 April 2006 12:31, JC Helary wrote:
> >> Did it ever occur to you that one can be an active Debian contributor
> >> and not use Debian at all ?
> >
> > No. And even if it did, I fail to see how that is relevant here. You
> > cannot be an active Debian contributor without knowing about i
On 2006/04/07, at 1:39, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
But requiring people who are not software developers to understand
they suddenly have become developers because Debian is special is a
little far fetched.
I don't see why.
Because the term does not apply to non coders in a normal software
cont
Did it ever occur to you that one can be an active Debian contributor
and not use Debian at all ?
No. And even if it did, I fail to see how that is relevant here. You
cannot be an active Debian contributor without knowing about its
culture, which is what Marc was talking about.
What is Debian
Which makes "Maintainer" unsuitble for translation maintainers how,
exactly?
Because translators mostly don't "maintain" translations but plainly
"contribute" translations.
Ie. Translators mainly _translate_.
What do you call translation maintenance anyway ?
What are the contributors doin
On Thursday 06 April 2006 16:38, JC Helary wrote:
> On 2006/04/06, at 23:18, cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis) wrote:
> > Also even if -from an outsiders perspective- the jargon used is
> > quirky and
> > strange. I have to wonder:
> > if one is not even willing to look at the jargon used by the
> > proje
Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> That's total bullshit. If they would really care about joining, they
> could simply start to read the documentation, which explicitly shows
> them how to understand the term maintainer and/or developer.
That's total bullshit. Do you read all documentati
On 07/04/2006, at 4:32 AM, Eddy Petrişor wrote:
On 4/6/06, Wouter Verhelst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Did it ever occur to you that one can be an active Debian
contributor
and not use Debian at all ?
No. And even if it did, I fail to see how that is relevant here. You
cannot be an active D
On 6 Apr 2006, Benj. Mako Hill told this:
>
>> And maybe I'm too heavily steeped in Debian culture to take an
>> objective view, but I don't see any reason why translators,
>> documentation writers, artists, et al. should look at the term
>> "developer" and conclude it's not for them.
>
> First,
On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 17:56:06 +0100 MJ Ray wrote:
> Jonas Smedegaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 16:35:38 +0100 MJ Ray wrote:
> > > Of your last 20 recorded uses of the word "Maintainer" on
> > > debian lists before this thread that I found, you use it once
> > > in another meaning
> And maybe I'm too heavily steeped in Debian culture to take an
> objective view, but I don't see any reason why translators,
> documentation writers, artists, et al. should look at the term
> "developer" and conclude it's not for them.
First, none of these groups usually think of the work that
> On 4 Apr 2006, Benj. Mako Hill spake thusly:
>
> >
> >> The problem is more one of 'how do we identify those people that
> >> aren't a Developer, but that do contribute regularly'.
> >
> > There are a number of ways of doing this although, like NM, it's
> > ultimately a human process that is c
On 4/6/06, Wouter Verhelst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Nobody's saying that you are going to stop being a developer. You can
> > be proud of what you do being a developer. You've earned that status.
> >
> > But requiring people who are not software developers to understand
> > they suddenly have
On 4/6/06, Wouter Verhelst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Did it ever occur to you that one can be an active Debian contributor
> > and not use Debian at all ?
>
> No. And even if it did, I fail to see how that is relevant here. You
> cannot be an active Debian contributor without knowing about its
On Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 10:29:54PM +0900, JC Helary wrote:
>
> On 2006/04/06, at 22:21, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
>
> >If people don't understand that you don't have to write code to be a
> >developer, then they should be told. If they are told, and they
> >misunderstand, then that is a bug which sh
On Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 11:33:05PM +0900, JC Helary wrote:
>
> On 2006/04/06, at 22:50, Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt wrote:
>
> >And anyway, it's not like people who should consider to join have
> >nothing to do with Debian and don't know the particularities of its
> >culture - even if this is unclear
JC Helary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On 2006/04/06, at 22:50, Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt wrote:
>> And anyway, it's not like people who should consider to join have
>> nothing to do with Debian and don't know the particularities of its
>> culture - even if this is unclear to people who are new to De
Jonas Smedegaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 16:35:38 +0100 MJ Ray wrote:
> > Of your last 20 recorded uses of the word "Maintainer" on
> > debian lists before this thread that I found, you use it once
> > in another meaning (webmaster) and that was uncapitalised.
>
> Which makes "Ma
On Thu, 06 Apr 2006, JC Helary wrote:
> Also in the constitution there is clear reference to
> developers=project members in 5.1.2
>
> >>2. Lend authority to other Developers.
> >>The Project Leader may make statements of support for points of
> >>view or for other members of the project, when as
On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 16:35:38 +0100 MJ Ray wrote:
> Jonas Smedegaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 14:18:13 +0100 MJ Ray wrote:
> > > [...] It seems better to name it after the
> > > target of the process, what they become - a Developer.
> >
> > The Maintainer mentioned in a package
Jonas Smedegaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 14:18:13 +0100 MJ Ray wrote:
> > [...] It seems better to name it after the
> > target of the process, what they become - a Developer.
>
> The Maintainer mentioned in a package control field is a Package
> Maintainer.
>
> I fail to see wh
On 2006/04/06, at 23:18, cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis) wrote:
Also even if -from an outsiders perspective- the jargon used is
quirky and
strange. I have to wonder:
if one is not even willing to look at the jargon used by the
project from
the projects point of view. Then why on earth would one
On 2006/04/06, at 22:50, Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt wrote:
And anyway, it's not like people who should consider to join have
nothing to do with Debian and don't know the particularities of its
culture - even if this is unclear to people who are new to Debian, it
should be no problem for an active c
On Thu, 6 Apr 2006 22:29:54 +0900 JC Helary wrote:
> The bug is in the relation between "from new maintainer->to
> developer" and the corollary "other contributors don't _need_ to
> become developers".
>
> However true that technically is, it clearly does not contribute to
> the well-being
* JC Helary ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060406 16:14]:
> However true that technically is, it clearly does not contribute to
> the well-being of non-maintainer contributors in the Project.
I agree to that statement - but that shouldn't make us replace the nice
term Debian Developer with a not-so-nice t
On Thursday 06 April 2006 15:29, JC Helary wrote:
> Nobody's saying that you are going to stop being a developer. You can
> be proud of what you do being a developer. You've earned that status.
>
> But requiring people who are not software developers to understand
> they suddenly have become develo
On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 14:18:13 +0100 MJ Ray wrote:
> Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > How about calling it New Developer if that's what it should be?
> >
> > Why does it need to be changed? People maintain websites,
> > translations, documentation, packages - I don't see a reason to
JC Helary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> (We also have plenty of people who contribute heavily to the
>> project without being recognized as members; but I think that
>> "member" is a lesser title that doesn't do justice to their
>> contributions -- I want to see these people recognized as
>> *d
On 2006/04/06, at 22:21, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
If people don't understand that you don't have to write code to be a
developer, then they should be told. If they are told, and they
misunderstand, then that is a bug which should be fixed. But don't go
around claiming that I'm suddenly not a "dev
On Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 07:19:22AM -0400, Kevin Mark wrote:
> Hi Steve,
> you and others use the word 'contributing', 'contribute',
> 'contributions'. So why not 'Debian Contributor'.
Ghaah.
Because I'm a developer, who develops an operating system, not just
someone who merely 'contributes' to it
Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > How about calling it New Developer if that's what it should be?
>
> Why does it need to be changed? People maintain websites, translations,
> documentation, packages - I don't see a reason to change the current
> name.
It seems to cause confusion wit
On 06/04/2006, at 7:10 PM, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
Err, no. We're still Debian Developers, whether we do actual
development
or something else.
I think a great deal of the perception problem rests on the fact that
in the FLOSS world (if not everywhere in computing) a "developer" is
shorth
On Thursday 06 April 2006 13:31, JC Helary wrote:
Or do you agree that developers are formally members of the debian
project ?
A Debian Developer (capitals, formal term, defined in the Debian
Constitution) is a member (lower case, general dictionary word meaning
"belonging to") of the Debian pr
MJ Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> The 'Maintainer' in NM is a misnomer, I understand it is possible to go
>> through NM as a translator or documentation writer.
> I also had replies from Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt and Eddy Petrişor
> saying simila
On Thursday 06 April 2006 13:31, JC Helary wrote:
> Or do you agree that developers are formally members of the debian
> project ?
A Debian Developer (capitals, formal term, defined in the Debian
Constitution) is a member (lower case, general dictionary word meaning
"belonging to") of the Debian
On 2006/04/06, at 19:35, Frans Pop wrote:
Please stop this "member" nonsense, you are rapidly starting to
become a
troll. Any points that you have wanted to make were clear about 6
mails
ago. The rest is repetition. Please accept that the consensus is
against
you and move on.
Do you want
On 2006/04/06, at 19:24, Frans Pop wrote:
On Thursday 06 April 2006 07:00, Clytie Siddall wrote:
But I, specifically, want to be able to vote in elections.
Do those two things really need to be the same?
IMHO: yes.
You have to be a formal member of the project before you can vote.
I am su
On Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 02:30:46AM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 05:24:26PM +0900, JC Helary wrote:
> > >Disadvantage, because the change will not be so evident from the
> > >outside (more of a publicity issue, but that is what a part of the
> > >problem is, so we need to c
On Thursday 06 April 2006 12:46, Frans Pop wrote:
> I disagree. If it needs to be changed, let's change it to what is the
> real purpose of the project, namely introducing a New Developer to the
> project.
Eh, real purpose of the _process_.
pgp2fMoHBYEah.pgp
Description: PGP signature
On Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 04:19:59PM +0900, JC Helary wrote:
> I'd be a little more radical :)
>
> >begin rewording proposal
> >The Debian New Maintainer process, is the process of becoming an
> >official
> >Debian Developer (DD). These webpages are the place were
> >prospective Debian
> >De
On Thursday 06 April 2006 12:06, cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis) wrote:
> I think the s/New Maintainer/New Member/g is a definate improvement, it
> removes one big misnomer and keeps the same abreviation.
I disagree. If it needs to be changed, let's change it to what is the real
purpose of the project
--- Frans Pop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió:
> Please stop this "member" nonsense, you are rapidly starting to become a
> troll. Any points that you have wanted to make were clear about 6 mails
> ago. The rest is repetition. Please accept that the consensus is against
> you and move on.
I do
On Thursday 06 April 2006 10:33, JC Helary wrote:
> > It's more than that; that's what the constitution refers to Debian
> > Developers as, so the NM process needs to use the same terminology.
>
> Yes, the constitution refers to Developers as being _Project Members_.
> (article 5.1.2)
You are repe
On Thursday 06 April 2006 07:00, Clytie Siddall wrote:
> But I, specifically, want to be able to vote in elections.
>
> Do those two things really need to be the same?
IMHO: yes.
You have to be a formal member of the project before you can vote.
pgpNkVqrqv5D2.pgp
Description: PGP signature
No because, as you'll see in my edits to cobako's proposal, the aim
is to have people think in terms of "membership" and not in terms of
"developership". Which will obviously make it easier for long term
non-maintainer contributors to understand that they are also welcome.
All this is really a per
On Thursday 06 April 2006 09:19, JC Helary wrote:
> I'd be a little more radical :)
changed text
I think the s/New Maintainer/New Member/g is a definate improvement, it
removes one big misnomer and keeps the same abreviation.
I think the term DD is to ingrained to just change it, it's likely
JC Helary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> No because, as you'll see in my edits to cobako's proposal, the aim =20
> is to have people think in terms of "membership" and not in terms of =20
> "developership". Which will obviously make it easier for long term =20
> non-maintainer contributors to understand tha
On Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 05:24:26PM +0900, JC Helary wrote:
> >Disadvantage, because the change will not be so evident from the
> >outside (more of a publicity issue, but that is what a part of the
> >problem is, so we need to change the image that DD=package maintainer)
> No because, as you'll see
On 2006/04/06, at 16:55, Don Armstrong wrote:
On Thu, 06 Apr 2006, JC Helary wrote:
The Debian Project New Member process, is the process of becoming an
official Debian Project Member (DPM), also called Debian Developer
(DD) for historical purposes.
It's more than that; that's what the consti
On 2006/04/06, at 17:00, Eddy Petrişor wrote:
On 4/6/06, JC Helary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
How about calling it New Developer if that's what it should be?
New Member ?
That would have the advantage (and disadvantage, at the same time) the
the abbreviation stays the same.
And also the a
On Thu, 06 Apr 2006, JC Helary wrote:
> The Debian Project New Member process, is the process of becoming an
> official Debian Project Member (DPM), also called Debian Developer
> (DD) for historical purposes.
It's more than that; that's what the constitution refers to Debian
Developers as, so the
On 4/6/06, JC Helary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > How about calling it New Developer if that's what it should be?
>
> New Member ?
That would have the advantage (and disadvantage, at the same time) the
the abbreviation stays the same.
Advantage, because of people inertia calling it "NM"
Disadva
I'd be a little more radical :)
begin rewording proposal
The Debian New Maintainer process, is the process of becoming an
official
Debian Developer (DD). These webpages are the place were
prospective Debian
Developers can find all the details on applying to become a DD, the
different steps
On 2006/04/06, at 15:27, MJ Ray wrote:
We've thoroughly queered the pitch now, but how many translators
or documenters believed they could go through NM?
I think what matters more than the process itself is what Clytie just
wrote:
The point is, Frans, since I started this discussion, that
On Wednesday 05 April 2006 14:14, JC Helary wrote:
> On 2006/04/05, at 20:37, Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho wrote:
> > JC Helary wrote:
> >> It is not a mistaken belief, it directly comes from:
> >> http://www.debian.org/devel/join/newmaint
> >
> > It is a mistaken belief. That page is just poorly worded
"cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> The 'Maintainer' in NM is a misnomer, I understand it is possible to go
> through NM as a translator or documentation writer.
I also had replies from Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt and Eddy PetriÅor
saying similar things. The first two paragraphs of the
On 05/04/2006, at 8:32 PM, Frans Pop wrote:
I seriously do wonder why translators, if they really want to get the
developer status, don't get together and just apply for NM. That would
force the project to develop a strategy to deal with it (if there
really
is something that needs to be deal
On Wed, 05 Apr 2006, JC Helary wrote:
> >Well, yeah, that's exactly what Antti-Juhani is saying.
>
> No, he is saying that even though the page is poorly worded the
> meaning should be clear enough. That is obviously not the case.
No, he's telling you what it is trying to say, not whether or not
It is a mistaken belief. That page is just poorly worded in this
regard, if it makes you believe otherwise.
Poorly worded or not it is a status page. If the status does not mean
what it reads then it must be reworded.
Well, yeah, that's exactly what Antti-Juhani is saying.
No, he is saying t
On Wed, Apr 05, 2006 at 09:14:50PM +0900, JC Helary wrote:
>
> On 2006/04/05, at 20:37, Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho wrote:
>
> >JC Helary wrote:
> >>It is not a mistaken belief, it directly comes from:
> >>http://www.debian.org/devel/join/newmaint
> >
> >It is a mistaken belief. That page is just poor
On 4/5/06, Holger Levsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Wednesday 05 April 2006 12:13, Eddy Petrişor wrote:
> > As a side note, I have asked for a debian aimed project to be created
> > on alioth and was refused with the reason that I wasn't a DD, nor
> > maintainer of any existing package
On 2006/04/05, at 21:53, Frans Pop wrote:
On Wednesday 05 April 2006 14:27, JC Helary wrote:
Besides, the systematic use of "developer" is also confusing and to
clarify things should be replaced my "member" as is also hinted in
the same document.
You cannot change the word "developer" to "mem
On Wednesday 05 April 2006 13:02, Frans Pop wrote:
> On Wednesday 05 April 2006 11:44, JC Helary wrote:
> > There is a huge confusion between being a developer and having
> > technical rights, and being a developer and having political rights.
>
> I seriously do wonder why translators, if they real
On Wednesday 05 April 2006 14:27, JC Helary wrote:
> Besides, the systematic use of "developer" is also confusing and to
> clarify things should be replaced my "member" as is also hinted in
> the same document.
You cannot change the word "developer" to "member" without changing the
Debian Constit
On 2006/04/05, at 20:53, Frans Pop wrote:
On Wednesday 05 April 2006 13:14, JC Helary wrote:
I am not sure what point you are trying to make ?
The point I'm trying to make is that it seems like translators are
waiting
for the mountain to come to them (change procedures, make entry
easier)
On 2006/04/05, at 20:37, Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho wrote:
JC Helary wrote:
It is not a mistaken belief, it directly comes from:
http://www.debian.org/devel/join/newmaint
It is a mistaken belief. That page is just poorly worded in this
regard, if it makes you believe otherwise.
Poorly worded
On Wednesday 05 April 2006 13:14, JC Helary wrote:
> I am not sure what point you are trying to make ?
The point I'm trying to make is that it seems like translators are waiting
for the mountain to come to them (change procedures, make entry easier).
It does not work like that: you have to go to
On Wednesday 05 April 2006 13:09, cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis) wrote:
> It's undoubtfully a good idea to grant things like uploading rights only
> to DD's that actually need it. But as long as it's possible for
> documentation writers/translators and the like to become DD's it's not
> in itself the
Adding [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please trim the recipient list as appropriate.
I wrote:
My guess is that not enough non-maintainers apply for developership
(possibly due to a widespread mistaken belief that the NM process is
just for maintainers).
JC Helary wrote:
It is not a mistaken belief, it di
On Wednesday 05 April 2006 13:09, JC Helary wrote:
> > Proposed path from here:
> > 1) work on improving the wording and documentation of the NM
> > process so as
> >to make it even more clearer that non-maintainers can become
> > DD's and
> >what the T&S requirements are for the different
Hi,
On Wednesday 05 April 2006 12:13, Eddy Petrişor wrote:
> As a side note, I have asked for a debian aimed project to be created
> on alioth and was refused with the reason that I wasn't a DD, nor
> maintainer of any existing package in the archive. I find this very
> disturbing and I was forced
On 2006/04/05, at 20:02, Frans Pop wrote:
On Wednesday 05 April 2006 11:44, JC Helary wrote:
There is a huge confusion between being a developer and having
technical rights, and being a developer and having political rights.
I seriously do wonder why translators, if they really want to get t
On Wednesday 05 April 2006 12:53, JC Helary wrote:
> On 2006/04/05, at 19:27, cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis) wrote:
> > explicitly naming translations as an accepted form of earlier
> > contributions.
>
> Sure, then what would a translator/developer do with full upload
> rights ?
a translator would be
Proposed path from here:
1) work on improving the wording and documentation of the NM
process so as
to make it even more clearer that non-maintainers can become
DD's and
what the T&S requirements are for the different contributor
categories
Remove all references to "developer" and re
On Wednesday 05 April 2006 11:44, JC Helary wrote:
> There is a huge confusion between being a developer and having
> technical rights, and being a developer and having political rights.
I seriously do wonder why translators, if they really want to get the
developer status, don't get together and
On 2006/04/05, at 19:27, cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis) wrote:
(besides for the very condescending "can be done by everyone", as if
maintaining a package required such very specific skills that "not
everyone can acquire"...)
ok, it think it's fair to say that this definately is _not_ meant
to be
On Wednesday 05 April 2006 12:08, JC Helary wrote:
> >> Considering the huge contribution from translation/documentation
> >> groups, if they are under-represented in the developer group it means
> >> there is a problem.
> >
> > I don't know, I do know that even though I've been doing
> > translati
On Wednesday 05 April 2006 11:44, JC Helary wrote:
> On 2006/04/05, at 18:15, Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho wrote:
> And they won't apply, specifically because in the same document it is
>
> written:
> > Some ways of contributing (translating, writing documentation and
> > reporting bugs) can be done by e
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