hi,
2013/5/23 Ondřej Surý :
> Joss isn't the only one to blame. Could all please stop bashing each other
> (and Joss) and stick back to technical arguments? (Saying "I'm sorry"
> privately to each other for each ad hominem argument used in this thread
> would also help!)
>
> I can clearly see w
Thomas Goirand writes:
> On 05/23/2013 01:45 AM, Josselin Mouette wrote:
>> I understand it will be a pain for Ubuntu if Debian picks a different
>> init system. I don’t think this is relevant for the discussion, though.
>
> It might be very relevant for many of us that our package works on
> *bo
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 07:16:18AM +0200, Zbigniew J??drzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> Providing a conversion script which recreates all of systemd
> functionality would basically mean reimplemting a big part of
> systemd in shell. Providing an interpeter would man reimplementing
> a big part of systemd i
On 23/05/13 at 12:28 +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 05/22/2013 04:53 AM, Lucas Nussbaum wrote:
> > - Neither systemd nor upstart are likely to be ported to kfreebsd soon,
> > as they both rely on many Linux-specific features and interfaces.
>
> Though it should be easy enough to port OpenRC t
Lucas Nussbaum writes:
> - there are 300+ upstart job files ready to be imported from Ubuntu
FWIW, there are a similar (if not more) number of systemd service files
we can look at and import from: Fedora, openSUSE, Arch and possibly a
few others too. (This I find to be a great strength of system
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256
Dear all,
Despite all the efforts from many people, it's still quite difficult to
get a fully functional Debian system on certain Apple hardware.
I have been looking for a team I could join to discuss and improve the
situation, but I could not fin
On 05/23/2013 06:56 AM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
* As you may know, systemd is developed by a large amount of
contributors.
If you are tired of seeing the same arguments,
Personal insults is something you call arguments? You have a weird
method of discussion ...
> don't post things which
ha
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Florian Schlichting
* Package name: libstream-buffered-perl
Version : 0.02
Upstream Author : Tatsuhiko Miyagawa
* URL : http://search.cpan.org/dist/Stream-Buffered/
* License : Artistic, GPL-1+
Programming Lang: Perl
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Florian Schlichting
* Package name: libapache-logformat-compiler-perl
Version : 0.12
Upstream Author : Masahiro Nagano
* URL : http://search.cpan.org/dist/Apache-LogFormat-Compiler/
* License : Artistic, GPL-1+
Program
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 09:55:41AM +0200, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On 05/23/2013 06:56 AM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> > "As you may know, systemd is developed by a large amount of
> contributors"
>
> How on earth does that contradict with the fact that 40%, i.e.
> the minority of all cont
Hi,
I'm running wheezy with some packages from unstable.
The distro-info-data package in wheezy is outdated (0.11).
Running ubuntu-distro-info --devel will say that the distribution data is
outdated:
ubuntu-distro-info -d -f
ubuntu-distro-info: Distribution data outdated.
Please check for an upd
+++ Colin Watson [2013-05-22 22:55 +0100]:
> > * Append "Debian-" to the username, as in Debian-opensmtpd
>
> This was used by Debian-exim and not a lot else that I ever heard of.
> In my view this scheme rightly failed; plenty of simple system
> monitoring tools (top, ps, and the like) truncate l
Hi Dennis,
On Thu, May 23, 2013 11:52, Dennis van Dok wrote:
> I'm running wheezy with some packages from unstable.
> The distro-info-data package in wheezy is outdated (0.11).
> Sid has version 0.16, which is updated. The README suggests to include
> wheezy-updates in the apt-sources, but there
Le jeudi 23 mai 2013 à 11:43 +0200, Adam Borowski a écrit :
> Did you include the stats for all projects systemd wants to replace as well?
> For just one piece:
> * busybox-syslogd
> * dsyslog
> * inetutils-syslogd
> * rsyslog
> * socklog-run
> * syslog-ng-core
For the Xth time (with X becoming r
On 05/23/2013 11:43 AM, Adam Borowski wrote:
Did you include the stats for all projects systemd wants to replace as well?
For just one piece:
* busybox-syslogd
* dsyslog
* inetutils-syslogd
* rsyslog
* socklog-run
* syslog-ng-core
Well, how many of these are actually used in the real world?
Ch
Le mercredi 22 mai 2013 à 15:05 -0700, Steve Langasek a écrit :
> There certainly have been cases of fd.o changes being dropped into Debian
> without dealing with the integration questions. mime -> .desktop is a prime
> example of this. .desktop is clearly far superior - but that doesn't mean
>
Steve Langasek writes ("Re: Upstart & kFreeBSD port for Debian"):
> This is interesting to know. Out of curiosity, if you don't intend to
> license your patch under the Canonical CLA, what was your aim in doing this
> port?
Perhaps the intent is a long-term fork. If someone wants to maintain
an
Josselin Mouette writes ("Re: Debian systemd survey"):
> Le mercredi 22 mai 2013 à 15:05 -0700, Steve Langasek a écrit :
> > There certainly have been cases of fd.o changes being dropped into
> > Debian without dealing with the integration questions. mime ->
> > .desktop is a prime example of thi
On Thu, 23 May 2013 14:17:43 +0200
Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > So if your comment is a
> > fair critique of upstart proponents, then mine is an equally fair critique
> > of systemd proponents.
>
> I’m not criticizing the fact that upstart comes from Ubuntu. I disagree
> with the idea of having U
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 09:22:22PM +0200, Martin Wuertele wrote:
> Actually it's just a response to the ongoing insulting by joss to
> variouse participants on mailinglists. As usual he has a way of mailing
> that i find disgusting.
I don't find yours to be much better.
> > You know why many proj
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Luca BRUNO
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Hash: SHA1
* Package name: libuv
Version : 0.11.3
Upstream Author : Ben Noordhuis
* URL : https://github.com/joyent/libuv
* License : MIT
Programming Lang: C
Description
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 09:11:55AM +0200, Gergely Nagy wrote:
> Also, post-raring, systemd is available in Ubuntu aswell, and in some
> cases, you can check for systemd at runtime, needing no modification to
> the package *at all*.
What's available in Ubuntu are the systemd dbus services, the lib
On May 23, 2013, at 02:17 PM, Josselin Mouette wrote:
>I’m not criticizing the fact that upstart comes from Ubuntu. I disagree
>with the idea of having Ubuntu as the sole origin of innovation in the
>project. It gives bad habits to both Debian and Ubuntu if the natural
>thing to do to make things
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Gunnar Wolf
* Package name: ruby-html2haml
Version : 1.0.1
Upstream Author : Norman Clarke
* URL : https://github.com/haml/html2haml
* License : MIT
Programming Lang: Ruby
Description : Convert HTML into HAML
Th
* Philipp Kern [2013-05-23 15:39]:
> On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 09:22:22PM +0200, Martin Wuertele wrote:
> > Actually it's just a response to the ongoing insulting by joss to
> > variouse participants on mailinglists. As usual he has a way of mailing
> > that i find disgusting.
>
> I don't find you
On Wed, 22 May 2013 19:40:57 +0200, Matthias Klumpp
wrote:
>Please also keep in mind that many upstream projects ship systemd service
>files. Therefore, most of the systemd work is already done too.
Are those any better than init scripts shipped by upstream? How many
Debian packages use upstream
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 07:07:16PM +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> >Please also keep in mind that many upstream projects ship systemd service
> >files. Therefore, most of the systemd work is already done too.
>
> Are those any better than init scripts shipped by upstream? How many
> Debian packages use
2013/5/23 Marc Haber :
> On Wed, 22 May 2013 19:40:57 +0200, Matthias Klumpp
> wrote:
>>Please also keep in mind that many upstream projects ship systemd service
>>files. Therefore, most of the systemd work is already done too.
>
> Are those any better than init scripts shipped by upstream? How ma
Package: wnpp
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Owner: Jonas Genannt
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* Package name: php5-stomp
Version : 1.0.5
Upstream Author : Pierrick Charron
* URL : http://pecl.php.net/package/stomp
* License : PHP License 3.01
Progra
(funny, talk without end about init systems, but not a single response
for a Debian native tool for a few days… and with funny, I meant sad)
On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Ondřej Surý wrote:
> I am just curious about the selection mechanism in apt(itude),
> something has changed between squeez
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 09:55:41AM +0200, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> > don't post things which
> >have already been debunked as well. You are doing the very same thing
> >that you are complaining about: I already posted in this list the git
> >log stats, and Lennart owns more than 40% of al
On Thu, 23 May 2013 19:34:09 +0200, Matthias Klumpp
wrote:
>P.S: @all: Please keep in mind that systemd is not just an init
>system, but contains many other bui?ding blocks to create an operating
>system, e.g. journald to create better syslogs (it forwards messages
>to traditional syslog, so no wo
On 05/23/2013 03:55 PM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On 05/23/2013 06:56 AM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>>> * As you may know, systemd is developed by a large amount of
>>>contributors.
>>
>> If you are tired of seeing the same arguments,
>
> Personal insults is something you call arguments?
On 05/23/2013 03:15 PM, Lucas Nussbaum wrote:
> I have the (possibly wrong) impression that OpenRC is less advanced
> technically than systemd and upstart, and lacks many of their advantages
> For example, according to https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=391945
> which is linked from
> http://w
On Thu 23 May 2013 12:50:00 Steve Langasek wrote:
> 78% is not a minority. But this isn't the statistic that gets
> trotted out by people advocating for systemd; instead, they always
> cherry-pick the statistics that paint it in the most favorable
> light. Because systemd advocates are not trying
Le jeudi 23 mai 2013 à 22:06 +0200, Marc Haber a écrit :
> Yes, systemd trying to replace so much of traditional UNIX tools at
> once and so blatantly breaking the "One job one tool" principle that
> has made our platform so successful is one major part of the
> acceptance issues that systemd has
Am Donnerstag, den 23.05.2013, 08:51 +0200 schrieb Bjoern Meier:
> hi,
>
> 2013/5/23 Ondřej Surý :
> > Joss isn't the only one to blame. Could all please stop bashing each
> other (and Joss) and stick back to technical arguments? (Saying "I'm
> sorry" privately to each other for each ad hominem ar
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Mike Miller
* Package name: deltarpm
Version : 3.5
Upstream Author : Michael Schroeder
* URL : http://gitorious.org/deltarpm/deltarpm
* License : BSD
Programming Lang: C, Python
Description : Tools to create and
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 11:18:04PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Le jeudi 23 mai 2013 à 22:06 +0200, Marc Haber a écrit :
> > Yes, systemd trying to replace so much of traditional UNIX tools at
> > once and so blatantly breaking the "One job one tool" principle that
> > has made our platform so
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 02:10:57PM +0200, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On 05/23/2013 11:43 AM, Adam Borowski wrote:
> >Did you include the stats for all projects systemd wants to replace as well?
> >For just one piece:
> >* busybox-syslogd
> >* dsyslog
> >* inetutils-syslogd
> >* rsyslog
> >*
2013/5/24 brian m. carlson :
> On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 11:18:04PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
>> Le jeudi 23 mai 2013 à 22:06 +0200, Marc Haber a écrit :
>> > Yes, systemd trying to replace so much of traditional UNIX tools at
>> > once and so blatantly breaking the "One job one tool" principle
On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 01:45:46AM +0200, Matthias Klumpp wrote:
> 2013/5/24 brian m. carlson :
> > The Unix Way is to use separate processes
> > for separate tasks.
> ...and this is what systemd does! It's not like we have an
> event-logger, hotkey-handling and seat-management all in pid0. It is
>
The following is a listing of packages for which help has been requested
through the WNPP (Work-Needing and Prospective Packages) system in the
last week.
Total number of orphaned packages: 505 (new: 0)
Total number of packages offered up for adoption: 140 (new: 1)
Total number of packages request
2013/5/24 brian m. carlson :
> On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 01:45:46AM +0200, Matthias Klumpp wrote:
>> 2013/5/24 brian m. carlson :
>> > The Unix Way is to use separate processes
>> > for separate tasks.
>> ...and this is what systemd does! It's not like we have an
>> event-logger, hotkey-handling and
Steve Langasek writes:
[...]
> by people advocating for systemd; instead, they always cherry-pick the
> statistics that paint it in the most favorable light. Because systemd
> advocates are not trying to win on technology, they're trying to win on
> marketing.
Please don't make such generalizati
On 05/24/2013 01:20 AM, brian m. carlson wrote:
rsyslog is priority important and is the default syslog implementation
in Debian. It's also the default in Fedora. I think we can be
confident that it gets lots of real-world use.
I am fully aware of that. I was mainly talking about the other
lo
On 05/24/2013 01:15 AM, brian m. carlson wrote:
I can use only parts of coreutils if I desire.
The same is true for systemd. Ubuntu is using parts of systemd
without actually using the daemon itself.
Also, coreutils does not
start services on startup that I do not need.
Aeh, what the heck
On Fri, 2013-05-24 at 04:21 +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 05/23/2013 03:15 PM, Lucas Nussbaum wrote:
> > I have the (possibly wrong) impression that OpenRC is less advanced
> > technically than systemd and upstart, and lacks many of their advantages
> > For example, according to https://bugs.ge
On Thu, 23 May 2013 23:18:04 +0200, Josselin Mouette
wrote:
>Le jeudi 23 mai 2013 à 22:06 +0200, Marc Haber a écrit :
>> Yes, systemd trying to replace so much of traditional UNIX tools at
>> once and so blatantly breaking the "One job one tool" principle that
>> has made our platform so successf
On Thu, 23 May 2013 12:50:00 -0700, Steve Langasek
wrote:
>Also worth noting:
>
>~/systemd$ find . -name '*.c' | grep -vE 'tests|test/|intl/|udev/' \
> | xargs wc -l | tail -n1
> 149081 total
>$ find . -name '*.c' | grep -vE 'tests|test/|intl/|udev/' | xargs wc -l \
> | tail -n1
> 31282
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