Hi,
I am trying to change some things in the wmaker package menu. Now the
"root" menu is something like:
Applications->
Help->
Workspace->
Run...
Exit
In the Application submenu are included the Debian menu categories.
Editors->
Graphics->
Terminals->
Tools->
This menu is generated using th
I have a few questions. First, to repeat the original question, will
we be seeing Upstart 1.4 in Debian experimental or unstable?
Second, I would be interested in reading a good technical comparison
of Upstart and systemd. Does anyone have a URL for me?
I know the System V init system fairly we
Le mercredi 22 février 2012 à 23:52 +, Ian Jackson a écrit :
> I wanted to add a command-line option to my X server. I spent 15 mins
> trawling through docs and grepping for config options with no luck.
> So I asked a search engine.
Actually there is a way in squeeze (since you’re talking ab
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 10:29:37AM +0100, Thomas Hood wrote:
> I know the System V init system fairly well but I am new to both
> Upstart and systemd. Obviously the two are similar insofar as they are
> both able to supersede SysV init.
I'm mostly a newbie with both, too. However, apart from techn
Riku Voipio writes:
> On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 01:12:08PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
>> The meme that systemd is better than upstart because it doesn't depend on
>> a shell is poppycock. No one has done any benchmarking to support the claim
>> that /bin/sh is a bottleneck for upstart (particula
Hi,
the goal for wheezy is to support multiarch and that means we can finaly
get rid of the ugly ia32-libs packages. For this to happen all packages
used in ia32-libs need to be multiarchified.
The ia32-libs packages contain stuff from around 150 packages (less in
number of source packages) and a
Russ Allbery writes:
> Goswin von Brederlow writes:
>
>> Changing the name in the package would break tools that rely on the name
>> (like packages.debian.org extracting the Changelog). Also ugly.
>
> We control the tools; we can change the tools. Multiarch is a big deal.
> We weren't going to
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 11:58, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> Upstart also does not support Should-Start which makes it impossible
> to provide correct init scripts for a number of services. For example
> autofs will not work if it uses nis because nis is not started before
> autofs. Due to the lac
* Roger Leigh [120223 01:47]:
> Yes, there is absolutely a big cost to pay in supporting multiple
> init systems. Choice is good when there's a benefit, but we should
> not ignore the cost we pay.
If two init system are too much to support, I'd suggest to stay with
the init working for everyone
Russ Allbery writes:
> If this is comprehensive, then I propose the following path forward, which
> is a mix of the various solutions that have been discussed:
>
> * dpkg re-adds the refcounting implementation for multiarch, but along
> with a Policy requirement that packages that are multiarch
On 2012-02-22 23:52:09 + (+), Ian Jackson wrote:
> On my netbook I'm running a pretty vanilla install of squeeze,
> although my personal desktop session is very different to usual.
>
> I wanted to add a command-line option to my X server. I spent 15
> mins trawling through docs and greppin
Russ Allbery writes:
> Carsten Hey writes:
>> * Russ Allbery [2012-02-16 14:55 -0800]:
>
>>> Every file that differs has to be fixed in the current multi-arch plan.
>>> Documentation that contains its build date is going to need to be split
>>> out into a separate -docs package.
>
>> I doubt tha
The Fungi writes:
> Maybe I don't use enough of the whiz-bang graphicky features lots of
> people want, but I find logging into a vty and launching startx, just
> like I have for decades, to work just fine. I'm certainly not going to
> begrudge others their pointy-clicky fanciness, but I also don
Josselin Mouette writes:
> Le lundi 13 février 2012 à 22:43 -0800, Russ Allbery a écrit :
>> There's been a lot of discussion of this, but it seems to have been fairly
>> inconclusive. We need to decide what we're doing, if anything, for wheezy
>> fairly soon, so I think we need to try to dr
On Thu, 23 Feb 2012, "Bernhard R. Link" wrote:
> * Roger Leigh [120223 01:47]:
> > Yes, there is absolutely a big cost to pay in supporting multiple
> > init systems. Choice is good when there's a benefit, but we should
> > not ignore the cost we pay.
>
> If two init system are too much to supp
Joey Hess writes:
> Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
>> pkg:arch will still be unique and the dpkg/apt output will use the
>> architecture where required for uniqueness. So I think that after some
>> getting used to it it will be clear enough again.
>
> Here are a few examples of the problems I worry
On Feb 23, "Bernhard R. Link" wrote:
> If two init system are too much to support, I'd suggest to stay with
> the init working for everyone and not support systemd at all.
Not an option: we really need an events-based init system.
If you want legacy at all costs, I think that Slackware is looking
On Feb 23, Russell Coker wrote:
> What are the big costs of supporting other init systems?
>
> Systemd supports /etc/init.d/* scripts and I believe that upstart does the
> same.
The big cost is not in managing individual "simple" daemons, but in
everything else which you can find in /etc/init.
Russ Allbery writes:
> I think it would be better to have a world in which all the architectures
> of the foo package on the system have to have the same version, because
> then you don't have to treat foo:i386 and foo:amd64 like they're separate
> packages. The list of installed architectures i
Le jeudi 23 février 2012 à 05:54 -0800, Russ Allbery a écrit :
> I probably missed some key thing that makes this work, but the last time I
> tried, using startx when you want to launch a desktop environment like
> GNOME or Xfce was quite painful and confusing.
There might be some remaining probl
David Kalnischkies writes:
> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 23:10, Carsten Hey wrote:
>> * David Kalnischkies [2012-02-16 03:59 +0100]:
>>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 00:39, Russ Allbery wrote:
>>> (the only problem i see is that i don't have ${source:Version} available
>>> currently in the version stru
Thibaut Paumard writes:
> Le 09/02/12 15:53, Goswin von Brederlow a écrit :
>> Hi,
>>
>> now that a multiarch dpkg has been uploaded to experimental it looks
>> like we can finaly get rid of ia32-libs* for wheezy.
>>
>> !!!HURAY!!!
>>
>> The problem now is the transition:
>>
>> 1) multiarch a
On Thu, 23 Feb 2012, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> > Package: 3depict
> > Source: 3depict (0.0.9-1)
> > Version: 0.0.9-1+b1
>
> Except that doesn't have to work (sorry for the ubuntu part):
>
> Package: gcc
> Source: gcc-defaults (1.93ubuntu1)
> Version: 4:4.4.3-1ubuntu1
>
> What would the versi
Hi,
I'm looking for a way to enable non-root users to install packages on
their local machines, but not removing/purging them.
I know that probably the proper way to achieve that is PackageKit, but I
was wondering if there is also a way to allow the use of apt-get, with
constraints for certain op
On 2012-02-23 05:54:49 -0800 (-0800), Russ Allbery wrote:
> I probably missed some key thing that makes this work, but the
> last time I tried, using startx when you want to launch a desktop
> environment like GNOME or Xfce was quite painful and confusing.
[...]
Ahh, yes... I don't try. I'm just u
Thomas Hood writes:
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 11:58, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
>> Upstart also does not support Should-Start which makes it impossible
>> to provide correct init scripts for a number of services. For example
>> autofs will not work if it uses nis because nis is not started befo
On Feb 23, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> Say you have a desktop system but also have apache, postgresql, ... for
> some developement work installed. First thing you need when you turn it
> on is your desktop. The apache and postgresql do not need to be running
> for you to log in and read your ma
* Marco d'Itri [120223 15:24]:
> Not an option: we really need an events-based init system.
> If you want legacy at all costs, I think that Slackware is looking for
> developers.
What's the supposed answer to this kind of ad hominem attack?
Asking you if you have too many Microsoft shares to allo
On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 16:32:18 +0100
John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for a way to enable non-root users to install packages on
> their local machines, but not removing/purging them.
At which point, you lose anyway because sometimes package installation
*requires* removal of
On Thu, 2012-02-23 at 16:57 +0100, Bernhard R. Link wrote:
> * Marco d'Itri [120223 15:24]:
> > Not an option: we really need an events-based init system.
> > If you want legacy at all costs, I think that Slackware is looking for
> > developers.
>
> What's the supposed answer to this kind of ad h
Hi,
Le jeudi 23 février 2012 à 16:32 +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz a
écrit :
> I'm looking for a way to enable non-root users to install packages on
> their local machines, but not removing/purging them.
>
> I know that probably the proper way to achieve that is PackageKit, but I
> was wonder
Josselin Mouette writes:
> (We even have a patch to allow only a subset of packages but it is
> unfortunately a bit too hackish.)
Would be really nice to have some standard sets available (think
"browser extensions", "command-line tools that ship no services or suid
binaries"). I'd certainly let
* Ben Hutchings [120223 17:34]:
> On Thu, 2012-02-23 at 16:57 +0100, Bernhard R. Link wrote:
> > * Marco d'Itri [120223 15:24]:
> > > Not an option: we really need an events-based init system.
> > > If you want legacy at all costs, I think that Slackware is looking for
> > > developers.
> >
> > W
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 08:56:22AM +0100, Vincent Bernat wrote:
> Moreover, other display manager may not work correctly because gdm3 is
> the only display manager supporting all modern stuff. For example, we
> could switch to something like "slim" but slim does not play nice with
> ConsoleK
* Ben Hutchings [120223 17:34]:
> Many people seem to argue that 'we know the old stuff and it works
> everywhere'. The second point, 'it works everywhere' isn't really true
> as there is a constant stream of bugs in init scripts and inherent
> problems with the lack of real service control in sy
Em 23/02/2012 14:58, "Steve Langasek" escreveu:
>
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 08:56:22AM +0100, Vincent Bernat wrote:
> > Moreover, other display manager may not work correctly because gdm3 is
> > the only display manager supporting all modern stuff. For example, we
> > could switch to somethi
Le jeudi 23 février 2012 à 17:54 +0100, Bernhard R. Link a écrit :
> I've no problem with Debian supporting multiple init systems. But if
> someone claims maintaince costs are too high for that, that is in my
> eyes a reason against supporting systemd, not for only having it.
Seriously, this cons
2012/2/23 Timo Juhani Lindfors :
> Josselin Mouette writes:
>> (We even have a patch to allow only a subset of packages but it is
>> unfortunately a bit too hackish.)
>
> Would be really nice to have some standard sets available (think
> "browser extensions", "command-line tools that ship no servi
* Josselin Mouette [120223 18:36]:
> Seriously, this constant obstruction to improving the Debian system by a
> minority of whiners who don’t contribute much to relevant parts of the
> system but have an opinion on everything is getting intolerable.
As long as you react to everything not your opi
Le jeudi 23 février 2012 à 18:57 +0100, Matthias Klumpp a écrit :
> You can change the PK settings using PolicyKit. Limiting installations
> to a group of packages is not possible at time. (and not planned -
> what if a package in group X requires a package of group Y? Users
> could easily work ar
Le jeudi 23 février 2012 à 17:39 +0100, Bernhard R. Link a écrit :
> * Ben Hutchings [120223 17:34]:
> > That is not an ad hominem attack. Ad hominem would be dismissing the
> > opponent with 'but you are just an old fart'.
>
> It's ad hominem because of "If you want legacy at all costs".
> Dis
Hi,
I am about to upload a fresh new package -- CDE
http://www.stanford.edu/~pgbovine/cde.html
which is heavily based on strace (pretty much it is a code fork of
strace to provide necessary functionality).
Upstream author maintains it for x86 architectures only and
unfortunately has neither time,
2012/2/23 Josselin Mouette :
> Le jeudi 23 février 2012 à 18:57 +0100, Matthias Klumpp a écrit :
>> You can change the PK settings using PolicyKit. Limiting installations
>> to a group of packages is not possible at time. (and not planned -
>> what if a package in group X requires a package of grou
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 12:13:33PM +0100, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> the goal for wheezy is to support multiarch and that means we can finaly
> get rid of the ugly ia32-libs packages. For this to happen all packages
> used in ia32-libs need to be multiarchified.
> The ia32-libs packages contain
On 2012-01-31 18:14, Andreas Beckmann wrote:
> I'm planning to file bugs against all packages that currently fail the
> piuparts test with a 'ucf: command not found' error in wheezy and sid.
As ucf became transitively essential in the mean time, this mass bug
filing is postponed until this problem
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 07:24:20AM +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> ]] Tzafrir Cohen
>
> > In sysv init scripts the daemon forks into the background. In upstrart
> > and systemd it doesn't have to (or shouldn't). (not) forking requires a
> > different command-line argument, normally. This leads to
Hi,
I'm planning to file bugs against all packages that currently leave
alternatives on the system after they were removed. Forgetting to remove
alternatives usually leaves dangling symlinks on the system and in most
cases these are dangling symlinks in /usr/bin
At the moment there are 20 package
* Andreas Beckmann , 2012-02-23, 21:49:
I'm planning to file bugs against all packages that currently leave
alternatives on the system after they were removed. Forgetting to
remove alternatives usually leaves dangling symlinks on the system and
in most cases these are dangling symlinks in /usr/
> But for me all the new init systems have a fundamental lack: They do not
> have priorities.
I think that's gone already.. update-rc.d already does whatever it wants with
the priorities.
--
Salvo Tomaselli
signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
]] "Bernhard R. Link"
> My point is that every init system will have a constant stream of
> problems. There simply is no way anyone will ever write a system that
> always work. Currently we have a system where every user has a chance to
> debug and fix those problems and make their system work ag
Hi,
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 08:07:10PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
> mime
> This separate document has been retired and and its (short)
> contents merged into Policy section 9.7. There are no changes to
> the requirements.
Does this have any influence on #658139? A
Andreas Tille writes:
> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 08:07:10PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> mime
>> This separate document has been retired and and its (short)
>> contents merged into Policy section 9.7. There are no changes to
>> the requirements.
> Does this have a
On Fri, 24 Feb 2012, "Bernhard R. Link" wrote:
> > > > Not an option: we really need an events-based init system.
> > > > If you want legacy at all costs, I think that Slackware is looking
> > > > for developers.
> > >
> > > What's the supposed answer to this kind of ad hominem attack?
> >
> > [.
The following is a listing of packages for which help has been requested
through the WNPP (Work-Needing and Prospective Packages) system in the
last week.
Total number of orphaned packages: 432 (new: 34)
Total number of packages offered up for adoption: 146 (new: 4)
Total number of packages reques
On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 11:31:38AM +1100, Russell Coker wrote:
> Finally one benefit of an event based booting system is that it won't become
> stuck if one daemon hangs. I've had problems in the past when one daemon
> didn't start up and that prevented other daemons from starting due to the
>
On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 11:31:38AM +1100, Russell Coker wrote:
[...]
> Debian has already become rather difficult to debug. During the text boot
> process we have a change to the video mode which resets the scroll-back
> buffer
> and makes it difficult to read early messages that appear on the
Russell Coker writes:
> Is there any way of capturing the old text output from /dev/console at a
> later
> stage in the boot?
I personally use
http://iki.fi/lindi/git/vtgrab-initramfs.git/
which starts rvcd (remote virtual console daemon) in the beginning of
initramfs and lets me monitor and
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