On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 09:32:19PM -0600, Philipp Kern wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 07:21:00PM +0100, Noel David Torres Taño wrote:
> > Installing N-M breaks unrelated software.
>
> No. At most it breaks *related* software.
Exactly, that's why it's the "gnome-core" package that's RC-buggy, no
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 07:21:00PM +0100, Noel David Torres Taño wrote:
> Installing N-M breaks unrelated software.
No. At most it breaks *related* software.
Kind regards
Philipp Kern
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On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 08:04:18PM -0400, Jeremy Bicha wrote:
> On 11 July 2012 14:21, Noel David Torres Taño wrote:
> > Installing N-M breaks unrelated software.
>
> I don't claim to be a networking expert, but I believe half the
> conversation here is based on wrong or outdated information. I
>
On 11 July 2012 14:21, Noel David Torres Taño wrote:
> Installing N-M breaks unrelated software.
Hi!
I don't claim to be a networking expert, but I believe half the
conversation here is based on wrong or outdated information. I
encourage those who think NetworkManager (NM) doesn't play well with
On 2012-07-11, Bruce Sass wrote:
> On July 10, 2012 10:39:10 AM Sune Vuorela wrote:
>> On 2012-07-10, Gergely Nagy wrote:
>> > No. Only if installing recommends is turned on, which cannot be
>> > guaranteed.
>>
>> There is many ways to break your system. turning off installation of
>> recommends
On July 10, 2012 10:39:10 AM Sune Vuorela wrote:
> On 2012-07-10, Gergely Nagy wrote:
> > No. Only if installing recommends is turned on, which cannot be
> > guaranteed.
>
> There is many ways to break your system. turning off installation of
> recommends is one of them.
So, if Recommends should
Noel David Torres Taño (11/07/2012):
> > Your view is irrelevant here: GNOME project considers it essential.
>
> Gnome view is the one irrelevant. This is Debian GNU/Linux, not Gnome
> GNU/Linux. We need to care for our users (both proficient and novice [1]),
> not for Gnome developers desires. A
[...]
> > > "essential parts of what the upstream GNOME project has to offer" - as
> > > its package description also clearly reflects.
> >
> > And NM is not essential in my point of view
>
> Your view is irrelevant here: GNOME project considers it essential.
Gnome view is the one irrelevant. Th
> > Installing N-M breaks unrelated software.
>
> That is a bug in network-manager, not in gnome-core.
>
> That bug is not fixed nor worked around by making it easier to avoid the
> broken package.
>
No. It is not a broken package. It does what it is designed to do. The bug is
having it as a De
On Mi, 11 iul 12, 14:41:50, Gergely Nagy wrote:
> Andrei POPESCU writes:
> >
> > Depending on how you do the package selection on your next installation
> > you might end up with rsyslog, but without logrotate[1].
>
> I don't see how that would break anything. logrotate is not necessary
> for lo
On Mi, 11 iul 12, 15:22:32, Gergely Nagy wrote:
>
> Like I said earlier: script it. I posted a script that can remove any
> number of packages from another's depends line, and echo a control
> file. Updating that to create a local meta-package is a piece of
> cake. Hooking it into apt is also simi
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: er...@in.tum.de
* Package name: predictnls
Version : 1.0.18
Upstream Author : Laszlo Kajan
* URL : http://www.rostlab.org/
* License : GPL
Programming Lang: Perl
Description : PredictNLS is an automated tool for
Gergely wrote:
>Henrique de Moraes Holschuh writes:
>
>> IMO, metapackages should "depend" on the absolutely required stuff (and many
>> times that will be the empty set), "recommend" the rest, and maybe even
>> "suggest" fringe packages. This achieves maximum usability for more
>> usecases, and
On 12-07-11 at 07:21pm, Noel David Torres Taño wrote:
> > I still (as previously mentioned) believe that you really should
> > focus on gnome-session instead, if you feel gnome-core is too
> > invasive when it insist on installing certain image viewer, web
> > browser, video player and "other to
On 12-07-11 at 07:54pm, Abou Al Montacir wrote:
> On Tue, 2012-07-10 at 20:01 +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > "essential parts of what the upstream GNOME project has to offer" - as
> > its package description also clearly reflects.
> And NM is not essential in my point of view
Your view is irr
On Wed, 11 Jul 2012, Gergely Nagy wrote:
> Henrique de Moraes Holschuh writes:
> > IMO, metapackages should "depend" on the absolutely required stuff (and many
> > times that will be the empty set), "recommend" the rest, and maybe even
> > "suggest" fringe packages. This achieves maximum usabilit
> Yet, we try to not diverge much from upstream, and maintain a good
> relationship with them. If they consider it core, so can we. Those who
> want to hand-pick parts of a meta package, can do so, we do not forbid.
If we want to be user friendly, it is not a matter of "we do not forbid", it
is a
> I still (as previously mentioned) believe that you really should focus
> on gnome-session instead, if you feel gnome-core is too invasive when it
> insist on installing certain image viewer, web browser, video player and
> "other tools" (which includes a certain network manager).
>
Installing an
> Some argue that meta-packages can have a different purpose, and some
> argue that recommending also to some (lesser) extend ensures
> installation of packages. None of that, however, changes the fact that
> _this_ meta-package _now_ has the feature of strictly ensuring a certain
> set of package
Thanks, I will review the list of critical errors to look for any
package on my interest. If I can resolve any errors better.
If I cannot, maybe I could try to edit a program of another distro to
adapt it to Debian. I installed on 2 partitions of 20Gb Ubuntu and
LMDE, and there are some packages t
On Tue, 2012-07-10 at 20:01 +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> On 12-07-10 at 06:34pm, Abou Al Montacir wrote:
> > On Tue, 2012-07-10 at 18:10 +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > > The very purpose of a meta-package is to _ensure_ that a certain set
> > > of packages is installed, not just recommend
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: "Lisandro Damián Nicanor Pérez Meyer"
* Package name: qextserialport
Version : 1.1.0
Upstream Author : Wayne Roth
Stefan Sander
Michal Policht
Brandon Fosdick
Li
By the way, I find it enlightening to realize that "gnome" only
recommends network-manager-gnome whereas gnome-core depends on it.
That was at gnome 2.30 times...
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On 2012-07-11 14:33, Gergely Nagy wrote:
> "Eugene V. Lyubimkin" writes:
>
> > Moreover, despite me understanding the picture, I still
> > has no clean, safe and documented way to do what I'd want in case the
> > package maintainer chosed Depends.
>
> You have: install the pieces you want by han
Thibaut Paumard writes:
>> That also achives maximum annoyance, because if I want the full
>> platform, I'll have to go recommends/suggest hunting. (No, I'm
>> *not* going to turn on install-recommends.)
>
> You don't want to turn on install-recommends, but you are happy with
> installing a load
Noel David Torres Taño writes:
>> Well, in case of GNOME, upstream considers n-m to be part of the core
>> system, to the best of my knowledge. If upstream does so, so should we.
>
> No. That's why we have our own distribution instead of just a collection of
> unpatched packages compiled from so
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Hi,
Le 11/07/12 14:36, Gergely Nagy a écrit :
> Henrique de Moraes Holschuh writes:
>
>> IMO, metapackages should "depend" on the absolutely required
>> stuff (and many times that will be the empty set), "recommend"
>> the rest, and maybe even "su
Andrei POPESCU writes:
> On Ma, 10 iul 12, 18:43:03, Gergely Nagy wrote:
>>
>> During the past ~14 years I've been using Debian with that setting
>> turned off, nothing ever broke on my systems because of this setting. If
>> it does, then I'll consider that a bug and report it appropriately.
>
>
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh writes:
> IMO, metapackages should "depend" on the absolutely required stuff (and many
> times that will be the empty set), "recommend" the rest, and maybe even
> "suggest" fringe packages. This achieves maximum usability for more
> usecases, and malfunctions only in
"Eugene V. Lyubimkin" writes:
> Moreover, despite me understanding the picture, I still
> has no clean, safe and documented way to do what I'd want in case the
> package maintainer chosed Depends.
You have: install the pieces you want by hand. That's at least clean and
safe. I do not think it is
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 08:51:32AM -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> Broken as in "partially working because there are expected features missing"
> is the _very_ definition of "not installing a recommended package".
>
> Now, "broken" as in "doesn't work at all for any use case" would be
On 2012-07-10 23:46, Jonathan Nieder wrote:
> - The gnome-core metapackage is very useful to some people. It helps
>people install a standard GNOME installation, keep it installed,
>and remove it later if they wish, using a single package.
Most metapackages provide such a "useful collect
On 11/07/2012 11:12, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Mi, 11 iul 12, 10:55:16, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
>>
>> The feature of _allowing a subset of packages to be removed that was
>> _ensured_ to be installed: Impossible without defeating the feature of
>> _ensuring_ those same package are installed.
>
On Wed, 11 Jul 2012, Jon Dowland wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 04:39:10PM +, Sune Vuorela wrote:
> > On 2012-07-10, Gergely Nagy wrote:
> > > No. Only if installing recommends is turned on, which cannot be
> > > guaranteed.
> >
> > There is many ways to break your system. turning off insta
On Tue, 10 Jul 2012, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Ma, 10 iul 12, 22:07:10, Eugene V. Lyubimkin wrote:
> > ... And I disagree with that. No solution can override policy's "all
> > Depends must be satisfied". If one choose to support the "exclude from
> > metapackage" one either has to change the polic
On Mi, 11 iul 12, 10:17:44, Sune Vuorela wrote:
>
> I'd rather put kde-plasma-desktop/kde-plasma-netbook on the
> gnome-session level. and probably kde-full at the gnome level.
> kde-standard is not a collection by upstream, but a collection by the
> debian people, so it doesn't fully fit the gnom
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: "Daniele E. Domenichelli"
* Package name: gtkdataboxmm
Version : 0.9.1
Upstream Author : Daniele E. Domenichelli
* URL : https://sourceforge.net/projects/gtkdataboxmm/
* License : LGPL
Programming Lang: C++
Descripti
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 04:39:10PM +, Sune Vuorela wrote:
> On 2012-07-10, Gergely Nagy wrote:
> > No. Only if installing recommends is turned on, which cannot be
> > guaranteed.
>
> There is many ways to break your system. turning off installation of
> recommends is one of them.
If turning
On 2012-07-11, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
>
> --YZa61AII3s1sGKYx
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Disposition: inline
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> On Mi, 11 iul 12, 11:14:52, Josselin Mouette wrote:
>>=20
>> Yes, maybe we should advertise it more, but gnome-se
* Betr.: " Re: Bug#680817: tryton-proteus: FTBFS: ImportError: No module named
dateutil.relativedelta" (Mon, 9 Jul 2012 12:49:15 +0200):
> * Mathias Behrle , 2012-07-09, 11:17:
> >I want to ask according to Debian policy [1] about a Pre-Depends with
> >respect to the following build problem of
Andrei POPESCU wrote:
>??? kde-full
>gnome kde-standard
>gnome-core kde-plasma-desktop/kde-plasma-netbook
>gnome-session ???
Maybe some sort of renaming would also be nice to make the
‘hierarchy’ more obvious? Along the lines of
??? kde-full *
On 12-07-11 at 12:12pm, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Mi, 11 iul 12, 10:55:16, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> >
> > The feature of _allowing a subset of packages to be removed that was
> > _ensured_ to be installed: Impossible without defeating the feature
> > of _ensuring_ those same package are instal
Le 11/07/12 11:14, Josselin Mouette a écrit :
> Le mardi 10 juillet 2012 à 20:01 +0200, Jonas Smedegaard a écrit :
>> I disagree: Looking at the many other dependencies of gnome-core, it
>> clearly isn't meant as "smallest possible GNOME setup" but more
>> "essential parts of what the upstream G
On Mi, 11 iul 12, 11:14:52, Josselin Mouette wrote:
>
> Yes, maybe we should advertise it more, but gnome-session should be
> self-contained, and enough for a bare GNOME desktop without any
> applications.
Yes please :)
Some kind of harmonization of (meta-)package names with KDE would also
be v
On Wed, Jul 04, 2012 at 12:10:18AM -0400, John L. Males wrote:
>
> Modified Debian GNU/Linux 6.0.3 (squeeze)
> Planning, Upgrade, Modifications from Highly modified
^^^
> Debian 4.x Etch
^^^
And you upgraded to Lenny, then Squeez
Le mardi 10 juillet 2012 à 20:01 +0200, Jonas Smedegaard a écrit :
> I disagree: Looking at the many other dependencies of gnome-core, it
> clearly isn't meant as "smallest possible GNOME setup" but more
> "essential parts of what the upstream GNOME project has to offer" - as
> its package desc
On Mi, 11 iul 12, 10:55:16, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
>
> The feature of _allowing a subset of packages to be removed that was
> _ensured_ to be installed: Impossible without defeating the feature of
> _ensuring_ those same package are installed.
Agreed. However, unless I missed something I haven
On 12-07-11 at 10:45am, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Mi, 11 iul 12, 09:10:12, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > A meta-package has no functionalirty beyond pulling in packages, so
> > there is no loss to the resulting system other than lack of its sole
> > feature.
>
> IMVHO a feature almost as importan
On Mi, 11 iul 12, 09:10:12, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> A meta-package has no functionalirty beyond pulling in packages, so
> there is no loss to the resulting system other than lack of its sole
> feature.
IMVHO a feature almost as important is to remove a set of packages.
Kind regards,
Andrei
-
Hi!
On 11.07.2012 04:45, Filipus Klutiero wrote:
> Although mysql-5.1 was indeed removed from unstable, MySQL wasn't.
> mysql-5.1 was simply removed because MySQL has a version number in
> source package names and the number changed. MySQL is now packaged as
> mysql-5.5: http://packages.qa.debian.
On 12-07-11 at 10:04am, Ivan Shmakov wrote:
> > Jonas Smedegaard writes:
>
> […]
>
> > It is a feature (which each user is free to avoid by not using it!)
> > for Debian to include a meta-package that pulls in that vil
> > n-m, not a bug.
>
> … And what exactly this “feature”
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