Hi Josselin,
here's my take as d-i release guy. That's basically in line with
Christian's except for the last answer.
I'm also putting -boot@ in Cc so that other d-i members can voice their
opinions. Full mail can be found at:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/08/msg00432.html
Jossel
Jordi Mallach writes ("Reverting to GNOME for jessie's default desktop"):
> It's been around 9 months since tasksel changed (for real) the default
> desktop for new installs. At the time of the change, it was mentioned
> the issue would be revisited before th
On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 12:22:01PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
>
> I just had a look at an online hardware store.
> Out of their 682 laptops and 332 desktops:
> * 1 model has 1 GiB
> * 48 models have 2 GiB
> * 470 models have 4 GiB
> * 495 have 6 GiB or more
>
> Whi
I enjoy the way you keep ignoring the relevant points, memory usage and
performance regressions. And the way you benchmarked gnome against gnome.
How about warsaw on xfce on the same hardware or your benchmarks pretty
much show nothing except that your 'slight performance increase when using
gnome-
Le mardi 12 août 2014 à 13:12 +0100, Anthony F McInerney a écrit :
> Virtualbox Results (no guest drivers installed)
Glxgears is not a relevant 3D benchmark.
But the funniest thing is that you did this test without any 3D
acceleration, which is not representative at all of most real-world
comput
>
> We happen at work to have users with very important needs of 3D
> resources, so one of my colleagues conducted some performance tests with
> and without a compositor (the compositor being GNOME 3).
>
> It turns out that with a recent adapter, 3D applications are running a
> small bit faster und
On 12 August 2014 09:51, Wookey wrote:
>
> Could you do MATE too please?
>
> MATE: (with mate-desktop-environment-extras)
free ^[[C total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 506756 397480 109276
7096 58820 166076 -/+ buffers/cache: 172584 334172
Swap: 392188 0 392188
The ctrl characters came wit
Le mardi 12 août 2014 à 03:03 +0100, Anthony F McInerney a écrit :
> I had stated previously XFCE had started showing memory usage similar
> to gnome. This has quite obviously changed. I was wrong, and i'm
> posting it as a correction to my statement.
You’re comparing apples and oranges. These me
+++ Anthony F McInerney [2014-08-12 00:02 +0100]:
>XFCE:
>
> total used free sharedbuffers cached
>Mem:506756 362468 144288 6568 22756 179264
>-/+ buffers/cache: 160448 346308
>Swap: 392188
+++ Kees de Jong [2014-08-12 02:03 +0200]:
>Are we really comparing RAM here as if it were the 90's? How many people
>here use Android? Today it needs 512 MB to function properly. In two years
>that could be 1 or 2 GB and that's a mobile OS. How much RAM does your
>browser use?
To
On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 02:03:39AM +0200, Kees de Jong wrote:
> Are we really comparing RAM here as if it were the 90's? How many people
> here use Android? Today it needs 512 MB to function properly. In two years
> that could be 1 or 2 GB and that's a mobile OS. How much RAM does your
> browser us
On 12 August 2014 01:03, Kees de Jong wrote:
> Are we really comparing RAM here as if it were the 90's?
>
I had stated previously XFCE had started showing memory usage similar to
gnome. This has quite obviously changed. I was wrong, and i'm posting it as
a correction to my statement.
I also just
Are we really comparing RAM here as if it were the 90's? How many people
here use Android? Today it needs 512 MB to function properly. In two years
that could be 1 or 2 GB and that's a mobile OS. How much RAM does your
browser use? My Chrome/Firefox easily uses 1 GB. My GNOME 3.10 desktop
(running
XFCE:
total used free sharedbuffers cached
Mem:506756 362468 144288 6568 22756 179264
-/+ buffers/cache: 160448 346308
Swap: 392188 0 392188
GNOME:
total used free shared
On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 01:47:53PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 07:42:41PM +0200, David Weinehall wrote:
> > Available in GNOME 3.
> >
> > Available in GNOME 3.
> >
> > Not enabled by default (if I remember correctly), but possible to enable
> > using gnome-tweak-tool.
On Lu, 11 aug 14, 19:38:47, David Weinehall wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 06:00:05PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > I do: I see a reason to netinst a 0.629xCD size desktop install rather
> > than a 0.829xCD size desktop when bandwidth is costly.
>
> Yes, but if you netinst you can *pick* y
How do you measure memory? Free?
Could you quite possibly post the output of free and whatever else you
measure with? (the full output)
For reference against jessie, i'm installing an up to date jessie right
now...
Thanks
Anthony (bofh80)
On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 07:42:41PM +0200, David Weinehall wrote:
> Available in GNOME 3.
>
> Available in GNOME 3.
>
> Not enabled by default (if I remember correctly), but possible to enable
> using gnome-tweak-tool.
I shouldn't have to know that. And I am pretty sure when gnome3 appeared
in s
On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 01:35:28PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> All I personally expect from a window manager is:
>
> Be able to launch programs (ideally using alt+F2)
Available in GNOME 3.
> Be able to resize the window using the edge of the window
Available in GNOME 3.
> Have a maximize/
On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 01:35:28PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 05:34:04PM +0200, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
>
> Or even showing them at all (certainly last time I bothered to look at
> gnome 3 it seemed to think buttons on windows were mostly to be avoided).
>
> > People
On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 06:00:05PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> I do: I see a reason to netinst a 0.629xCD size desktop install rather
> than a 0.829xCD size desktop when bandwidth is costly.
Yes, but if you netinst you can *pick* your desktop, it's not like you
have to pick the default. Do
On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 05:34:04PM +0200, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> You mean left vs. right side?
Or even showing them at all (certainly last time I bothered to look at
gnome 3 it seemed to think buttons on windows were mostly to be avoided).
> People who are so afraid of new stuff to learn that
On Mon, 2014-08-11 at 03:20 +0100, Anthony F McInerney wrote:
[...]
> If people have old CD only machines i would not like to attempt to get
> kernel 3.16 +drivers +userland working on that. I've been in that
> situation plenty of times, where woody or potato are better simply
> because the drivers
On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 10:23:38AM +0001, Anthony F McInerney wrote:
>
> And if it's "machines in the wild with CD drives still" again, we
> have woody, squeeze and wheezy for them.
Does woody still have security support? In not, there are many old
machines for which it is no longer an alterna
2014/08/12 1:12 "Jonas Smedegaard" :
>
> [...]
> Still you are talking about cost in time. Few I have met in developing
> countries were poor measured in time available.
> [...]
Developed country (Japan). My wife makes me scrimp on everything, so I
still have megabit/sec download. Fiber or 10 Mb/
Quoting Olav Vitters (2014-08-11 11:21:14)
> On Fri, Aug 08, 2014 at 11:10:50AM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
>> Quite a few places in the World have poor and/or expensive internet
>> access. Larger default desktop will hurt the most in developing
>> countries: non-techies gets discourages to u
Quoting David Weinehall (2014-08-10 22:59:45)
> On Fri, Aug 08, 2014 at 11:10:50AM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
>>
>> The issue here really is "how big is it?" rather than "hos many disks
>> [of which kind] does it fit onto?".
>>
>> "unable to fit on a single image" is not only about use of said
Hi,
Lennart Sorensen:
> it needs buttons on windows that people expect to see where they expect
> to see them
You mean left vs. right side?
> Would Debian be willing to make gnome3 have different defaults than
> upstream in the interest of actually being useable to new users who are
> used to o
On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 11:15:15AM +0200, Thomas Weber wrote:
> Not sure why you'd want to go for third world countries, but let's look
> at Germany (Aldi is one of the two biggest discounters here):
> http://www.presseportal.de/pm/112096/2653870/aldi-senkt-preise-fuer-fischprodukte-oel-und-smoothi
at bottom :-
On 8/11/14, Thomas Weber wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 03:20:49AM +0100, Anthony F McInerney wrote:
>> Would the people who are claiming that blank cdr are cheaper than dvdr,
>> especially in third world countries, please cite sources (shops, price
>> checkers etc) of the price of
On Mon, 11 Aug, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Thomas Weber
wrote:
Not sure why you'd want to go for third world countries, but let's
look
at Germany (Aldi is one of the two biggest discounters here):
http://www.presseportal.de/pm/112096/2653870/aldi-senkt-preise-fuer-fischprodukte-oel-und-smoothies
CD
On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 03:20:49AM +0100, Anthony F McInerney wrote:
> Would the people who are claiming that blank cdr are cheaper than dvdr,
> especially in third world countries, please cite sources (shops, price
> checkers etc) of the price of say 5 pack or 10 pack, even up to 50pack of
> CD's,
Would the people who are claiming that blank cdr are cheaper than dvdr,
especially in third world countries, please cite sources (shops, price
checkers etc) of the price of say 5 pack or 10 pack, even up to 50pack of
CD's, vs the same amount of DVD's, from those third world countries. Is the
price
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512
On 08/10/2014 02:39 PM, Kees de Jong wrote:
> Why are we discussing CD/DVD sizes? Why not just use an USB
> netinstall? It's then possible to download and install the stuff you
> need, if you don't want to use a lot of bandwidth then choose no
> des
On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 7:49 AM, Joel Rees wrote:
(Having booted up a real OS, but still using Google's webmail fake MUA. heh.)
> [...]
> 2014/08/11 7:32 "Joel Rees" :
>> 2014/08/08 6:58 "Jordi Mallach" :
>>
>> [...]
>> > systemd embracing: One of the reasons to switch to Xfce was that it
>> > d
(Sure wish I could get drivers for this Acer tablet so I could get replace
the vendor-constricted Android with a real OS and get software that
wouldn't misinterpret what my fingers do on the screen. But, then, I
suppose I should go to the trouble of booting up a regular computer for
this.)
2014/08
2014/08/08 6:58 "Jordi Mallach" :
>
> Hi Debian,
>
> It's been around 9 months since tasksel changed (for real) the default
> desktop for new installs. At the time of the change, it was mentioned
> the issue would be revisited before the freeze, around debconf time.
>
> Well, it's roughly that time
2014/08/08 18:14 "Yves-Alexis Perez" :
>
> [...]
>
> Put it another way, Xfce (and other DEs) have been hurt by the various
> enforced transitions (ConsoleKit,
> hal/devicekit-power/upower/upower-0.99), yes. Combined with the lack of
> resources, that means it lays behind the people who decided tho
On Fri, Aug 08, 2014 at 11:10:50AM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
>
> The issue here really is "how big is it?" rather than "hos many disks
> [of which kind] does it fit onto?".
>
> "unable to fit on a single image" is not only about use of said storage
> devices for installation, but also an i
Why are we discussing CD/DVD sizes? Why not just use an USB
netinstall? It's then possible to download and install the stuff you
need, if you don't want to use a lot of bandwidth then choose no
desktop environment or XFCE/LXDE. But if you can spare some more time
then you can install GNOME/KDE. See
On ven., 2014-08-08 at 18:38 -0700, Paul C. Bryan wrote:
> With all due respect to XFCE, I'd hate the interpretation to be along
> the lines of, "Oh, Debian state of the art desktop environment feels
> something like Windows, circa 2000." But, XFCE's lightweight. It's
> meant
> to lack such fancy f
On Thu, Aug 07, 2014 at 03:29:26PM -0700, Don Armstrong wrote:
> Specifically: 1) Would you want the default CD/DVD image to use a GNOME
> even if GNOME was unable to fit on a single image? 2) Would the GNOME
> team consider a less-complete DE for cases where image size is a
> restriction?
How ha
Hi,
I don't know if it's wise to include that by default, but I remember
that today, MATE is quite accessible. Not perfet, yes, but slight,
customizable, and with Compiz which can run on it with all its features.
Gnome is heavy for some machines and much less customizable in colours,
objects
On Fri, Aug 08, 2014 at 12:47:14PM +0100, David Goodenough wrote:
>
> I would have thought it better to have a two level structure, where you are
> asked for instance if you want a database, and if you select it you are
> then asked which one (which can have a default for newbies). Similarly fo
On Fri, Aug 08, 2014 at 11:14:07AM +0200, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote:
>
> Indeed. I somehow hoped that the attention brought on the initial switch
> would bring more developpers to the pkg-xfce team, but that failed. But
> I'm unsure how much people actually saw the switch, since it's only for
> the
Quoting Samuel Thibault (2014-08-08 16:19:28)
> Jonas Smedegaard, le Fri 08 Aug 2014 16:11:58 +0200, a écrit :
>> The following is on a wheezy chroot:
>>
>> root@bastian:/# aptitude install task-gnome-desktop
>> The following NEW packages will be installed:
>> [...]
>> Need to get 370 MB of archiv
Gunnar Wolf writes ("Re: Reverting to GNOME for jessie's default desktop"):
> And yes, many such computers are currently in use. And it would be a
> disservice not to provide CDs anymore. But that criteria should not be
> what guides our default for installation; a CD mig
Jonas Smedegaard, le Fri 08 Aug 2014 16:11:58 +0200, a écrit :
> The following is on a wheezy chroot:
>
> root@bastian:/# aptitude install task-gnome-desktop
> The following NEW packages will be installed:
> [...]
> Need to get 370 MB of archives. After unpacking 1099 MB will be used.
>
> root@ba
Quoting Olav Vitters (2014-08-08 15:51:13)
> On Fri, Aug 08, 2014 at 03:26:20PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
>> I wonder if you still missed my point: Concern is not if computers
>> are capable of reading DVDs, but the *bandwith* burden of installing
>> and maintaining a larger desktop versus a
Quoting Gunnar Wolf (2014-08-08 15:00:35)
> Jens Schüßler dijo [Fri, Aug 08, 2014 at 10:37:33AM +0200]:
>>> ...And I'd like us to consider this point as well: How important are
>>> CD images nowadays? Who has a CD that cannot read a DVD?
>>
>> You may visit some poorer people in the world.
>> But
On Friday 08 August 2014 15:15:17 vita...@yourcmc.ru wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm not a Debian developer, just a Debian user, and I want to say that I
> was happy to see XFCE being the default DE. Just because it's small,
> classic and neutral DE - which GNOME 3 definitely isn't. I think XFCE is
> a bette
Jens Schüßler dijo [Fri, Aug 08, 2014 at 10:37:33AM +0200]:
> > ...And I'd like us to consider this point as well: How important are
> > CD images nowadays? Who has a CD that cannot read a DVD?
>
> You may visit some poorer people in the world.
> But hey, if they want CD-bread, why don't they ju
On 08/08/2014 08:31, Michael Gilbert wrote:
Here's a really interesting view showing the downward trend starting
somewhere in April [0]. Note that the xfce trend was consistently
growing prior to and past January (when the default was changed), but
slowed a lot in April. At the same time, gnome
On Fri, Aug 08, 2014 at 12:41:09AM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> Jordi Mallach wrote:
> > Downstream health
> >
> > Upstream health
> >
> > Community
> >
> > Security
> >
> > Privacy
> >
> > Documentation
>
> I don't think these are very useful criteria, unless they lead to
> actual technical iss
On 08/08/14 00:29, Don Armstrong wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Aug 2014, Jordi Mallach wrote:
>> Well, it's roughly that time. :) So I'd like to plainly request GNOME
>> is reinstated as the default desktop environment for a number of
>> reasons.
>
> One of the reasons put forward for switching to Xfce was s
On jeu., 2014-08-07 at 23:57 +0200, Jordi Mallach wrote:
> Hi Debian,
About the decision itself, as Debian Xfce main maintainer, I honestly
don't really care. I don't think the default desktop matters that much
on Debian (while I guess it means a lot for Ubuntu, for example). I
actually think havi
Quoting Gunnar Wolf (2014-08-08 05:34:29)
>> One of the reasons put forward for switching to Xfce was size on the
>> installation images; could you (and/or debian-cd) address this?
>>
>> Specifically: 1) Would you want the default CD/DVD image to use a
>> GNOME even if GNOME was unable to fit on
* Gunnar Wolf wrote:
>
> ...And I'd like us to consider this point as well: How important are
> CD images nowadays? Who has a CD that cannot read a DVD?
You may visit some poorer people in the world.
But hey, if they want CD-bread, why don't they just eat DVD-cake.
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, em
Also:
http://oskuro.net/blog/freesoftware/gnome-as-default-jessie-desktop-2014-08-07-23-58
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive:
https://lists.debian.org/caah150bkszsgq6tzfaadlmxu6
On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 1:52 AM, Michael Gilbert wrote:
> The better question is whether the xfce switch had or has any
> influence on slowing the general debian growth rate [0]? Is the
> slight downtick over the last few months due to the default desktop,
> or some other change that users aren't l
On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 12:41 AM, Joey Hess wrote:
>> Hardware: GNOME 3.12 will be one of the few desktop environments to support
>> HiDPI displays, now very common on some laptop models. Lack of support for
>> HiDPI means non-technical users will get an unreadable desktop by default,
>> and
>> no
Jordi Mallach wrote:
> Accessibility
> Hardware: GNOME 3.12 will be one of the few desktop environments to support
> HiDPI displays, now very common on some laptop models. Lack of support for
> HiDPI means non-technical users will get an unreadable desktop by default, and
> no hints on how to fix
I cannot make a full, fair comparison between desktop environments, as
I use none. I saw several people bark at GNOME 3, but most of them are
happy adopters nowadays, so, I don't believe that factor should carry
much weigh nowadays. Besides, as Jordi says, making end users re-learn
everything *agai
On Thu, 07 Aug 2014, Jordi Mallach wrote:
> Well, it's roughly that time. :) So I'd like to plainly request GNOME
> is reinstated as the default desktop environment for a number of
> reasons.
One of the reasons put forward for switching to Xfce was size on the
installation images; could you (and/o
Hi dd@.
(M-F-T was set so respecting it; but adding -boot@ anyway.)
Jordi Mallach (2014-08-07):
> It's been around 9 months since tasksel changed (for real) the default
> desktop for new installs. At the time of the change, it was mentioned
> the issue would be revisited before the freeze, aroun
Hi Debian,
It's been around 9 months since tasksel changed (for real) the default
desktop for new installs. At the time of the change, it was mentioned
the issue would be revisited before the freeze, around debconf time.
Well, it's roughly that time. :) So I'd like to plainly request GNOME is
rei
66 matches
Mail list logo
