Re: 64-bit file operations (lseek64() etc) misbehaving

2004-04-01 Thread Corinna Vinschen
On Mar 31 17:36, Igor Pechtchanski wrote: > Mike, > > Please make sure your mailer respects the Reply-To: header. Thanks. > > Frankly, I don't see any reason why open() *wouldn't* succeed on > \\.\PhysicalDrive0... All it'll do is recognize a Win32 pathname (because > of the '\'), and pass it a

[ANNOUNCEMENT] GNU emacs 21.3.50-2 is available

2004-04-01 Thread Joe Buehler
GNU emacs 21.3.50-2 is available. This release is available as a "test" release in the Cygwin setup.exe installer program. It is compiled from the current official FSF CVS tree for those who want to try it out. I have compiled this version with Xaw3d scrollbars. THIS RELEASE IS PROVIDED WITHOUT

Re: Changing jobs

2004-04-01 Thread Corinna Vinschen
On Mar 31 20:20, Joshua Daniel Franklin wrote: > On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:08:30 -0500, "Christopher Faylor" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > > I just wanted to send a brief note to inform everyone that today is my > > last day at Red Hat. I have accepted a position with TimeSys > > Corporation. > > As

Re: zsh and line breaks

2004-04-01 Thread Oliver Kiddle
"Peter A. Castro" wrote: > > It is easy for us to add `#ifdef __CYGWIN__' around changes or #define > > O_TEXT to zero on other systems so if you do correct the problem, > > please send the changes back to us. > > There are about 43 open() calls which I've updated with the O_TEXT > option. Having

german characters

2004-04-01 Thread Markus R.
Hi together, I have read many articles in the newsgroup and studied the FAQ on the cygwin homepage to enable german characters in the bash. But I didn't find a solution. I have a fresh cygwin install on my system. I have created a '.inputrc' in my home directory with the following entries: set m

unable to start services with snapshots 20040326 and 20040329

2004-04-01 Thread Thorsten Kampe
The subject says it all. This is a full patched Windows XP SP1 box. The services in question are cron and ssh. "cygrundsrv" is shown in the taskmanager but not the corresponding sshd and cron. 20040325 works. Thorsten -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem re

Re: unable to start services with snapshots 20040326 and 20040329

2004-04-01 Thread Corinna Vinschen
On Apr 1 13:23, Thorsten Kampe wrote: > The subject says it all. This is a full patched Windows XP SP1 box. > The services in question are cron and ssh. "cygrundsrv" is shown in > the taskmanager but not the corresponding sshd and cron. > > 20040325 works. Known problem. Is solved in CVS. Cori

Re: cygwin for Government Use

2004-04-01 Thread Reini Urban
Christopher Faylor schrieb: On Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 05:23:54AM +0100, Reini Urban wrote: Corinna Vinschen schrieb: when reading http://cygwin.com/licensing.html, you will find that the licensing of Cygwin is pretty clear. Cygwin is Open Source, provided under the GNU Public License. That means ba

strange install problems

2004-04-01 Thread Erik Weibust
I have a very strange cygwin problem. Background. I have been using cygwin without problem for 2 years. Yesterday I needed/wanted to use the uptime cmd. I didn't have it so I downloaded the setup program and tried to add it. I had a number of problems getting it installed so I decieded to just

Re: cygwin for Government Use

2004-04-01 Thread Christopher Faylor
On Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 01:08:49PM +0100, Reini Urban wrote: >Christopher Faylor schrieb: >>On Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 05:23:54AM +0100, Reini Urban wrote: >>>Corinna Vinschen schrieb: when reading http://cygwin.com/licensing.html, you will find that the licensing of Cygwin is pretty clear. >>

Questions on cygwin filemode in WindowsXP

2004-04-01 Thread Yufeng Xiong
Hi All, I'm using the xemacs comes with Cygwin on WindowXP for file editing, but it has a problem with file mode: My original file (test.php) has the following mode using "ls -l": -rwx--+. test.php after I edit it with xemacs, it generated a file ca

Re: PCYMTNQREAIYR

2004-04-01 Thread Gregory Borota
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004, Igor Pechtchanski wrote: > On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 LarrysPCRemediesaolcom wrote: > > > Igor, How do I go about configuring my mailer to no quote raw-e-mail > > addresses if I'm using Outlook? I could find no configuration option > > related to this. I understand the need (i.e., e

Re: PCYMTNQREAIYR

2004-04-01 Thread Gregory Borota
Here is an illustration of the previous post about configuring PINE. Just LarrysPCRemedies is quoted. On Wed, 31 Mar 2004, LarrysPCRemedies wrote: > Igor, How do I go about configuring my mailer to no quote raw-e-mail addresses if > I'm using Outlook? I could find no configuration option related

How to set other languages in Emacs mule?

2004-04-01 Thread David
Hi, I am trying to read and type Korean chracters in emacs, and could anyone tell me how? It's for a Korean Parser, and the input sentences are, of course, Korean. I'd like to read and type Korean characters in XWin shell, and in emacs too. Please help. Thank you in advance. David -- Unsubs

RE: strange install problems

2004-04-01 Thread Dave Korn
> -Original Message- > From: cygwin-owner On Behalf Of Erik Weibust > Sent: 01 April 2004 15:32 > I'm not sure what or why it's trying to do with an h: > drive. I have a local c and d drive, and I have i and > s network drives, and a z samba mount. I did have an > h drive in the past, bu

RE: Questions on cygwin filemode in WindowsXP

2004-04-01 Thread Buchbinder, Barry (NIH/NIAID)
I was wondering about that, myself, recently. According to the fileutils/ls info page: > Following the permission bits is a single character that specifies > whether an alternate access method applies to the file. When that > character is a space, there is no alternate access method. When it > i

RE: strange install problems

2004-04-01 Thread Erik Weibust
Dave, Where might those ENV settings be hiding? Any ideas? I followed the uninstall instructions exactly. Erik --- Dave Korn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > -Original Message- > > From: cygwin-owner On Behalf Of Erik Weibust > > Sent: 01 April 2004 15:32 > > > I'm not sure what or why i

Re: Questions on cygwin filemode in WindowsXP

2004-04-01 Thread David Rothenberger
Yufeng Xiong wrote: 1. What is the '+' in the file mode? I know it has something to do with file permission, after the editing, my web server/PHP does not have permission to open test.php anymore I believe the "+" indicates that there are some Windows permissions that do not map to the Unix-style

RE: strange install problems

2004-04-01 Thread Dave Korn
> -Original Message- > From: Erik Weibust > Sent: 01 April 2004 16:11 > Dave, > > Where might those ENV settings be hiding? Any ideas? > I followed the uninstall instructions exactly. > > Erik These are your windoze environment vars I'm referring to; you can see them by right clicki

Souldn't we put [Cygwin] or [CygXwin] here depending on the question?

2004-04-01 Thread David
I got mails from both two groups:cygwin, and cygXwin. It's sometimes confusing. Don't we need to seperate one from the other by putting a head into Subject, for example, [cygwin] vs. [cygXwin]? Just an opinion, as a beginner ^^ David -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-s

RE: strange install problems

2004-04-01 Thread Erik Weibust
Dave, I'm very familiar with setting Env vars in windows. I checked that. Nothing there. Then I opened a cmd prompt and ran set | more and found this: HOMEDRIVE=H: HOMEPATH=\ HOMESHARE=\\dalfss02\erikweibust$ Those vars aren't visible through the My Computer gui view? Any idea where they are

RE: Souldn't we put [Cygwin] or [CygXwin] here depending on the question?

2004-04-01 Thread Dave Korn
> -Original Message- > From: cygwin-owner On Behalf Of David > I got mails from both two groups:cygwin, and cygXwin. Well, that's because you're on two completely different mailing lists. > It's sometimes confusing. You're very easily confused then. Why don't you set up your mail

RE: strange install problems

2004-04-01 Thread Dave Korn
> -Original Message- > From: Erik Weibust > Sent: 01 April 2004 16:28 > Dave, > > I'm very familiar with setting Env vars in windows. I > checked that. Nothing there. Then I opened a cmd > prompt and ran set | more and found this: > > HOMEDRIVE=H: > HOMEPATH=\ > HOMESHARE=\\dalfss0

Re: Questions on cygwin filemode in WindowsXP

2004-04-01 Thread Corinna Vinschen
On Apr 1 07:15, David Rothenberger wrote: > Yufeng Xiong wrote: > > >1. What is the '+' in the file mode? I know it has something to do with > >file > >permission, after > >the editing, my web server/PHP does not have permission to open test.php > >anymore > > > I believe the "+" indicates that

Re: cygwin... from Turkey

2004-04-01 Thread Igor Pechtchanski
Hi, Sinan, Please don't send personal mail with Cygwin questions unless specifically requested. All Cygwin-related queries should go to an appropriate Cygwin mailing list (see ). The lists can also be accessed as newsgroups via (see the "Unoffici

Re: Changing jobs

2004-04-01 Thread Igor Pechtchanski
On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Corinna Vinschen wrote: > On Mar 31 20:20, Joshua Daniel Franklin wrote: > > On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:08:30 -0500, "Christopher Faylor" > > cygwincom> said: > > > I just wanted to send a brief note to inform everyone that today is my > > > last day at Red Hat. I have accepted a

Re: Questions on cygwin filemode in WindowsXP

2004-04-01 Thread Yufeng Xiong
Thanks David for the help. The getfacl/setfacl command works fine. And the setting change in xmeacs also works. I'm using WindowsXP @Home, it does not seem to have anything available for changing file permissions from Windows itself, does anybody know how to do it ? Thanks. - Original Messa

Re: Shouldn't we put [Cygwin] or [CygXwin] here depending on the question?

2004-04-01 Thread David
I've been using Outlook Express, and it doesn't seem that I can sort mails to different folders. I can? If so, would you tell me how? I need to read/write Korean fully, so I did not try other mail clients before. I think most of the mail clients can cover foreign languages now, but at this time, it

Re: Questions on cygwin filemode in WindowsXP

2004-04-01 Thread Yufeng Xiong
Thanks David for the help. The getfacl/setfacl command works fine. And the setting change in xmeacs also works. I'm using WindowsXP @Home, it does not seem to have anything available for changing file permissions from Windows itself, does anybody know how to do it ? Thanks. - Original Messa

Re: german characters

2004-04-01 Thread Igor Pechtchanski
On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Markus R. wrote: > Hi together, > > I have read many articles in the newsgroup and studied the FAQ on the > cygwin homepage to enable german characters in the bash. But I didn't > find a solution. > > I have a fresh cygwin install on my system. I have created a '.inputrc' > in

Re: PCYMTNQREAIYR

2004-04-01 Thread Igor Pechtchanski
On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Gregory Borota wrote: > On Wed, 31 Mar 2004, Igor Pechtchanski wrote: > > > On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 LarrysPCRemediesaolcom wrote: > > > > > Igor, How do I go about configuring my mailer to no quote raw-e-mail > > > addresses if I'm using Outlook? I could find no configuration optio

Re: Questions on cygwin filemode in WindowsXP

2004-04-01 Thread David Rothenberger
Yufeng Xiong wrote: I'm using WindowsXP @Home, it does not seem to have anything available for changing file permissions from Windows itself, does anybody know how to do it ? You have to turn off "simple file sharing". It's under the View tab of the Folder Options. Search in WinXP help for "simp

Re: Questions on cygwin filemode in WindowsXP

2004-04-01 Thread Corinna Vinschen
On Apr 1 11:12, Yufeng Xiong wrote: > Thanks David for the help. > > The getfacl/setfacl command works fine. > And the setting change in xmeacs also works. > > I'm using WindowsXP @Home, it does not seem to have anything available for > changing > file permissions from Windows itself, does anybo

RE: strange install problems

2004-04-01 Thread Larry Hall
At 10:33 AM 4/1/2004, you wrote: >> -Original Message- >> From: Erik Weibust >> Sent: 01 April 2004 16:28 > > >> Dave, >> >> I'm very familiar with setting Env vars in windows. I >> checked that. Nothing there. Then I opened a cmd >> prompt and ran set | more and found this: >> >> HO

Re: Postgres Backend doesn't catch the next command, after SIGUSR2

2004-04-01 Thread Corinna Vinschen
On Mar 31 22:36, Patrick Samson wrote: > > > if (!CancelIo ((HANDLE) socket)) > > > {...} > > > else > > > { > > >if (WSAGetOverlappedResult (socket, &ovr, &len, > > > FALSE, flags) && len != 0) > > > ret = (int) len; > > >else WSASetLastError (WSAEINTR); > > > > Did you try it? >

Re: Questions on cygwin filemode in WindowsXP

2004-04-01 Thread Corinna Vinschen
On Apr 1 08:20, David Rothenberger wrote: > Yufeng Xiong wrote: > >I'm using WindowsXP @Home, it does not seem to have anything available for > >changing > >file permissions from Windows itself, does anybody know how to do it ? > > You have to turn off "simple file sharing". It's under the View

Re: Questions on cygwin filemode in WindowsXP

2004-04-01 Thread Larry Hall
XP Home hides the permissions and doesn't provide a GUI tool for manipulating them. If you search the web, you can find folks that claim they have been successful at restoring the XP Pro Security tab to the GUI by playing some games with service packs from NT4. But that's a different matter. Lar

Re: Questions on cygwin filemode in WindowsXP

2004-04-01 Thread Yufeng Xiong
I hate MS for this matter, why they have to have a Home version and a Pro version, it's all money related! - Original Message - From: "Larry Hall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Yufeng Xiong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "David Rothenberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, A

Re: Questions on cygwin filemode in WindowsXP

2004-04-01 Thread Graucsh
If you reboot into Safe Mode, the security tab becomes available. Graucsh Yufeng Xiong wrote: Thanks David for the help. The getfacl/setfacl command works fine. And the setting change in xmeacs also works. I'm using WindowsXP @Home, it does not seem to have anything available for changing file p

RE: Shouldn't we put [Cygwin] or [CygXwin] here depending on the question?

2004-04-01 Thread Dave Korn
> -Original Message- > From: cygwin-owner On Behalf Of David > Sent: 01 April 2004 17:12 > I've been using Outlook Express, and > it doesn't seem that I can sort mails to > different folders. I can? Yes. > If so, would you tell me how? You see the "Tools" item on the menu bar? You see

Re: Shouldn't we put or [CygXwin] here depending on the question?

2004-04-01 Thread Thorsten Kampe
* David (2004-04-01 18:12 +0100) > I've been using Outlook Express, and it doesn't seem that I can sort > mails to different folders. Use a different mail client. > I can? If so, would you tell me how? F1 -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports:

Re: Aspell - Ispell

2004-04-01 Thread Andreas Seidl
Gareth Pearce wrote: It should be relatively easy to write a very simple script called ispell which calls 'aspell -a $@' I think that works at least... can't say I've tried it. Such a script exists: /usr/share/aspell/ispell An obvious way to make it available to programs would be: cd /usr/bin

Re: Shouldn't we put [Cygwin] or [CygXwin] here depending on the question?

2004-04-01 Thread David
1) I understand what you feel. But, as I put, " it doesn't seem that I can sort mails to different folders.", I tried, and I realized that I could not make it at all. It turned out that it's impossible to do that with this email account. 2) I'm still trying to read/write Korean characters, and I

RE: Shouldn't we put [Cygwin] or [CygXwin] here depending on the question?

2004-04-01 Thread Dave Korn
> -Original Message- > From: cygwin-owner On Behalf Of David > Sent: 01 April 2004 18:54 > 1) I understand what you feel. No, you don't. > But, as I put, " it doesn't seem that I can sort mails to > different folders.", I tried, and I realized that I could not > make it at all. > > It

Re: PCYMTNQREAIYR

2004-04-01 Thread Gregory Borota
On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Igor Pechtchanski wrote: > On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Gregory Borota wrote: > > > On Wed, 31 Mar 2004, Igor Pechtchanski wrote: > > > > > On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 LarrysPCRemediesaolcom wrote: > > > > > > > Igor, How do I go about configuring my mailer to no quote raw-e-mail > > > > addre

Re: Shouldn't we put [cygwin] or [CygXwin] here depending on the question?

2004-04-01 Thread Christopher Faylor
On Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 11:53:42AM -0600, David wrote: >1) I understand what you feel. > >But, as I put, " it doesn't seem that I can sort mails to different >folders.", I tried, and I realized that I could not make it at all. > >It turned out that it's impossible to do that with this email account

RE: german characters

2004-04-01 Thread Hannu E K Nevalainen
note: "german characters" -> "international characters" > From: Markus R. > I have read many articles in the newsgroup and studied the FAQ on the > cygwin homepage to enable german characters in the bash. But I didn't > find a solution. I hope you realize that as this is a bash specific Q it re

RE: PCYMTNQREAIYR

2004-04-01 Thread Hannu E K Nevalainen
> From: Gregory Borota > On Wed, 31 Mar 2004, Igor Pechtchanski wrote: > > > On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 LarrysPCRemediesaolcom wrote: > > > > > Igor, How do I go about configuring my mailer to no quote raw-e-mail > > > addresses if I'm using Outlook? I could find no configuration option > > > related to

Re: Questions on cygwin filemode in WindowsXP

2004-04-01 Thread Larry Hall
At 11:26 AM 4/1/2004, you wrote: >On Apr 1 08:20, David Rothenberger wrote: >> Yufeng Xiong wrote: >> >I'm using WindowsXP @Home, it does not seem to have anything available for >> >changing >> >file permissions from Windows itself, does anybody know how to do it ? >> >> You have to turn off "sim

Re: Questions on cygwin filemode in WindowsXP

2004-04-01 Thread Larry Hall
At 11:56 AM 4/1/2004, you wrote: >If you reboot into Safe Mode, the security tab becomes available. This is quite interesting, though probably not practical. -- Larry Hall http://www.rfk.com RFK Partners, Inc. (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office 838 Was

Is !C: a valid environment variable?

2004-04-01 Thread Volker Quetschke
Hi! If you start bash from a command prompt, e.g. by starting the cygwin.bat you get funny environment variables: bash-2.05b$ set | grep \! !C:='C:\cygwin\bin' When you exit bash and start it again from the same shell you can even get: bash-2.05b$ set | grep \! !C:='C:\cygwin\bin' !EXITCODE=00

Re: already registered with AC_CONFIG_FILES

2004-04-01 Thread Mailing Lists
Igor, David, Thanks for your replies. Your guesses were absolutely right, it seems to be a bad EOL problem. I followed Igor's suggestion and looked at the output through a hex editor, and now the actual error message is: > > configure.ac:3814: error: `\r' is already registered with AC_CONFIG_F

Re: PCYMTNQREAIYR

2004-04-01 Thread Igor Pechtchanski
On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Gregory Borota wrote: > On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Igor Pechtchanski wrote: > > > On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Gregory Borota wrote: > > > > > On Wed, 31 Mar 2004, Igor Pechtchanski wrote: > > > > > > > On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 LarrysPCRemediesaolcom wrote: > > > > > > > > > Igor, How do I go about

Re: already registered with AC_CONFIG_FILES

2004-04-01 Thread Igor Pechtchanski
On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Mailing Lists wrote: > Igor, David, > > Thanks for your replies. Your guesses were absolutely right, it seems to > be a bad EOL problem. > > I followed Igor's suggestion and looked at the output through a hex > editor, and now the actual error message is: > > > > configure.ac:3

Re: Is !C: a valid environment variable?

2004-04-01 Thread Igor Pechtchanski
On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Volker Quetschke wrote: > Hi! > > If you start bash from a command prompt, e.g. by starting the > cygwin.bat you get funny environment variables: > > bash-2.05b$ set | grep \! > !C:='C:\cygwin\bin' > > When you exit bash and start it again from the same shell you can > even get

RE: strange install problems

2004-04-01 Thread Erik Weibust
FYI. Problem solved! Our NT_Services group here changed some "start-up" scripts which were setting $HOMEDRIVE. I just had to re-map that drive and cygwin started up correctly. I have a few questions. 1. $HOMEDRIVE for me is on a network share is this going to be a problem? 2. Shouldn't cygw

Re: Questions on cygwin filemode in WindowsXP

2004-04-01 Thread Andrew DeFaria
Yufeng Xiong wrote: I hate MS for this matter, why they have to have a Home version and a Pro version, it's all money related! If you dig deep enough eventually you will always hit the "it's money related" area. This has nothing to do with MS really. It happens everywhere. Question is why do yo

Re: zsh and line breaks

2004-04-01 Thread Peter A. Castro
On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Oliver Kiddle wrote: Warning: this is long!! > "Peter A. Castro" wrote: > > > It is easy for us to add `#ifdef __CYGWIN__' around changes or #define > > > O_TEXT to zero on other systems so if you do correct the problem, > > > please send the changes back to us. > > > > There

RE: strange install problems

2004-04-01 Thread Larry Hall
At 03:43 PM 4/1/2004, you wrote: >FYI. Problem solved! > >Our NT_Services group here changed some "start-up" >scripts which were setting $HOMEDRIVE. I just had to >re-map that drive and cygwin started up correctly. > >I have a few questions. > >1. $HOMEDRIVE for me is on a network share is this

Re: zsh and line breaks

2004-04-01 Thread Igor Pechtchanski
On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Peter A. Castro wrote: > On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Oliver Kiddle wrote: > > > "Peter A. Castro" wrote: > > > > It is easy for us to add `#ifdef __CYGWIN__' around changes or #define > > > > O_TEXT to zero on other systems so if you do correct the problem, > > > > please send the chan

RE: Aspell - Ispell

2004-04-01 Thread Gareth Pearce
> Gareth Pearce wrote: > > > It should be relatively easy to write a very simple script called ispell > > which calls 'aspell -a $@' > > I think that works at least... can't say I've tried it. > > Such a script exists: /usr/share/aspell/ispell > > An obvious way to make it available to programs

Re: Cygwin icon

2004-04-01 Thread Breaker
Here it is. It should work everywhere. I have tested it in XP and ME. In XP it looks ok, in ME and other OSes that doesn't have alpha channel for icons, it can look pixelated. I cannot do more, I am not a pixel artist :( I tried to respect the original Cygwin icon design as much as I could. The

Re: zsh and line breaks

2004-04-01 Thread Peter A. Castro
On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Igor Pechtchanski wrote: > On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Peter A. Castro wrote: > > On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Oliver Kiddle wrote: > > > > > "Peter A. Castro" wrote: > > > > > It is easy for us to add `#ifdef __CYGWIN__' around changes or #define > > > > > O_TEXT to zero on other systems so if

RE: cygwin... from Turkey

2004-04-01 Thread GARY VANSICKLE
> Subject: Re: cygwin... from Turkey "...NER NERRR! Keep on rockin' in the Free world!..." ;-) -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ:

patch for keychain

2004-04-01 Thread Bill Smargiassi
I noticed this with a recent Cygwin install. $HOME was set to my user dir in C:\Documents and Settings. Several of the tests on $keydir and $pidf were not quoted and the spaces in $HOME were causing "too many arguments" errors. As a result, the agent info was not stored properly and closing the

Re: zsh and line breaks

2004-04-01 Thread Corinna Vinschen
On Apr 1 15:11, Peter A. Castro wrote: > On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Igor Pechtchanski wrote: > > I thought that that was what linking with automode.o did... > > Hmmm... I'm not sure it'll help. Doesn't automode open for read in text > mode but open for write in binmode always (correct me if I'm wrong)?