Re: [Computer-go] AlphaGo and the Standard Mistake in Research and Journalism

2016-02-04 Thread uurtamo .
Not to beat a dead horse, but big numbers aren't inherently interesting to describe. There are integers bigger than any integer anyone has written down in any form. This particular integer is large, but "consumable". I guess I get tired of the "number of atoms in the observable universe" comparis

Re: [Computer-go] AlphaGo and the Standard Mistake in Research and Journalism

2016-02-01 Thread Igor Polyakov
Have you heard of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham's_number ? It is certainly far too large to write out the digits to, in fact the number of digits in that number is too large to write On 2016-01-31 8:19, John Tromp wrote: dear Robert, The number G19 of legal games under a given go rule

Re: [Computer-go] AlphaGo and the Standard Mistake in Research and Journalism

2016-02-01 Thread Olivier Teytaud
> > > I am pretty sure that such an implicit expression exists: it is << the >> number of etc etc >> > > We do not speak of just the definition of what kind of number to find, but > of the construction of finding the number (or already of a compression of > its explicit digits). It's hard to

Re: [Computer-go] AlphaGo and the Standard Mistake in Research and Journalism

2016-02-01 Thread Robert Jasiek
On 01.02.2016 11:11, Olivier Teytaud wrote: I am pretty sure that such an implicit expression exists: it is << the number of etc etc We do not speak of just the definition of what kind of number to find, but of the construction of finding the number (or already of a compression of its exp

Re: [Computer-go] AlphaGo and the Standard Mistake in Research and Journalism

2016-02-01 Thread Olivier Teytaud
> > > How do you know that an implicit expression (of length smaller than 10^80) > of the number does not exist? :) > I am pretty sure that such an implicit expression exists: it is << the number of etc etc >> (formalized for your favorite set of rules :-) ). -- ==

Re: [Computer-go] AlphaGo and the Standard Mistake in Research and Journalism

2016-02-01 Thread David Ongaro
> On 31 Jan 2016, at 16:05, Robert Jasiek wrote: > > For the yellow press: "The number of 10^80 atoms in the universe is much > smaller than the number 2 * 10^170 of possible positions, which is very much > smaller than the uncountable number of possible different games." "much smaller" is a

Re: [Computer-go] AlphaGo and the Standard Mistake in Research and Journalism

2016-01-31 Thread Robert Jasiek
On 31.01.2016 19:57, John Tromp wrote: What is your best estimate of point where where chances are even? I do not know. what numbers the press could use that are not too arbitrary. - The number P of legal positions. - An empirical average number I of available intersections for the next mo

Re: [Computer-go] AlphaGo and the Standard Mistake in Research and Journalism

2016-01-31 Thread John Tromp
dear Robert, >> It will never be known since there's not enough space in the known >> universe to write it down. We're talking about a number with over >> 10^100 digits. > > How do you know that an implicit expression (of length smaller than 10^80) > of the number does not exist? :) Of course an

Re: [Computer-go] AlphaGo and the Standard Mistake in Research and Journalism

2016-01-31 Thread Robert Jasiek
On 31.01.2016 17:19, John Tromp wrote: It will never be known since there's not enough space in the known universe to write it down. We're talking about a number with over 10^100 digits. How do you know that an implicit expression (of length smaller than 10^80) of the number does not exist? :)

Re: [Computer-go] AlphaGo and the Standard Mistake in Research and Journalism

2016-01-31 Thread John Tromp
dear Robert, > The number G19 of legal games under a given go ruleset is unknown. It will never be known since there's not enough space in the known universe to write it down. We're talking about a number with over 10^100 digits. > For positional > superko (prohibition of recreation of the same