Re: Why do good floppy disks go bad?

2016-04-07 Thread ben
On 4/6/2016 8:22 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: Wear happens. Particularly on directory tracks, or where you encounter the snake in Adventure. But, that doesn't account for the loss of data over time. Entropy: Could the rust on the cookie be de-oxidizing, and turning back into non-oxidized ferrous comp

Re: Why do good floppy disks go bad?

2016-04-07 Thread Brent Hilpert
On 2016-Apr-06, at 7:22 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: > How long were they supposed to last? > Will they honor those "lifetime guarantee"s? Try getting a replacement for one of those Lifetime vacuum tubes at Radio Shack.

DEC fieldguide

2016-04-07 Thread shadoooo
Hello, I'm a modest collector of DEC and PDP11 stuff, I always thank who wrote the PDP11 field guide with the almost complete list of all the existing boards... Now comes the idea: could be useful having a website where the field guide assume a graphical aspect, including pictures of the parts, des

Re: Why do good floppy disks go bad?

2016-04-07 Thread drlegendre .
"Try getting a replacement for one of those Lifetime vacuum tubes at Radio Shack." Beat me to it. I tried that twenty years ago (with a bad quartet of 7591s) and needless to say, got nowhere. "We haven't sold those in years!" - as if that makes any difference, in terms of the warranty? Sure, I ca

Re: Why do good floppy disks go bad?

2016-04-07 Thread Tor Arntsen
The problem with lifetime warranties is that they're not about the lifetime of the owner, and they're not about the lifetime of the product. What it means is "as long as it's a product we're still selling" (except for those cases where it *really* is the lifetime of the product.. in which case it m

Re: Why do good floppy disks go bad?

2016-04-07 Thread william degnan
not sure if anyone mentioned this point yet, but I have found that the drives destroy good disks a sizable percentage of the time. Keeping the heads clean and testing a drive before use with an important vintage disk is key to the longevity of the disk. I also always make a backup copy of most ev

Re: Why do good floppy disks go bad?

2016-04-07 Thread Paul Koning
> On Apr 6, 2016, at 10:22 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: > > ... > Entropy: Could the rust on the cookie be de-oxidizing, and turning back into > non-oxidized ferrous compounds? No. If that were true, iron ore would spontaneously turn into iron. Unfortunately, that does not happen. paul

Re: Why do good floppy disks go bad?

2016-04-07 Thread Maciej W. Rozycki
On Thu, 7 Apr 2016, Tor Arntsen wrote: > The problem with lifetime warranties is that they're not about the > lifetime of the owner, and they're not about the lifetime of the > product. What it means is "as long as it's a product we're still > selling" Well, that's an interesting observation, an

Re: VCF Europe, April 30th - May 1st, Munich + registration for VCF Berlin

2016-04-07 Thread R SMALLWOOD
I'm not sure I'd be able to go to that. Its says all items have to be more than 10 years old MY replica PDP front panels are brand new!! Rod Smallwood Original message >From : stuebera...@yahoo.de Date : 06/04/2016 - 23:56 (GMTDT) To : cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject : VCF Europe, Apri

Re: DEC fieldguide

2016-04-07 Thread Sean Caron
On Thu, 7 Apr 2016, shad wrote: Hello, I'm a modest collector of DEC and PDP11 stuff, I always thank who wrote the PDP11 field guide with the almost complete list of all the existing boards... Now comes the idea: could be useful having a website where the field guide assume a graphical aspec

Re: VCF Europe, April 30th - May 1st, Munich + registration for VCF Berlin

2016-04-07 Thread Anke Stüber
Hi, On Thu, Apr 07, 2016 at 04:00:44PM +0100, R SMALLWOOD wrote: > I'm not sure I'd be able to go to that. Its says all items have to be > more than 10 years old it's just a general rule we use to explain to people that their old Windows PC isn't considered vintage. Of course there are exceptions

RE: VCF Europe, April 30th - May 1st, Munich + registration for VCF Berlin

2016-04-07 Thread Jay West
Anke wrote... = If anybody has a nicer definition of "vintage" or = Please... not here.

Re: RE: VCF Europe, April 30th - May 1st, Munich + registration for VCF Berlin

2016-04-07 Thread R SMALLWOOD
Original message >From : jw...@classiccmp.org Date : 07/04/2016 - 17:18 (GMTDT) To : cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject : RE: VCF Europe, April 30th - May 1st, Munich + registration for VCF Berlin Anke wrote... = If anybody has a nicer definition of "vintage" or = Please... not here

Re: VCF Europe, April 30th - May 1st, Munich + registration for VCF Berlin

2016-04-07 Thread Anke Stüber
Hi, On Thu, Apr 07, 2016 at 11:18:21AM -0500, Jay West wrote: > Anke wrote... > = > If anybody has a nicer definition of "vintage" or > = > > Please... not here. no, not here of course, just send a mail to me directly or to i...@vcfb.de. Regards, Anke

RE: VCF Europe, April 30th - May 1st, Munich + registration for VCF Berlin

2016-04-07 Thread Jay West
I want to be clear... I was not saying Anke shouldn't have posted about VCF here. His post was 100% fine and appreciated. I just didn't want to get into a "what is classic/vintage" thread again ;) J

Re: Why do good floppy disks go bad?

2016-04-07 Thread Chuck Guzis
On 04/07/2016 02:32 AM, Tor Arntsen wrote: > The problem with lifetime warranties is that they're not about the > lifetime of the owner, and they're not about the lifetime of the > product. What it means is "as long as it's a product we're still > selling" (except for those cases where it *reall

Re: Why do good floppy disks go bad?

2016-04-07 Thread Chuck Guzis
On 04/07/2016 04:56 AM, william degnan wrote: > not sure if anyone mentioned this point yet, but I have found that the > drives destroy good disks a sizable percentage of the time. Keeping the > heads clean and testing a drive before use with an important vintage disk > is key to the longevity of

Re: Why do good floppy disks go bad?

2016-04-07 Thread ben
On 4/7/2016 11:11 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote: On 04/07/2016 02:32 AM, Tor Arntsen wrote: The problem with lifetime warranties is that they're not about the lifetime of the owner, and they're not about the lifetime of the product. What it means is "as long as it's a product we're still selling" (excep

Data General Nova Star Trek

2016-04-07 Thread jwsmobile
A friend has a large set of paper tape which seems to be from a DG User group (not sure about that, but label on box sort of implies that). The tape pile is fanfold about 10" across in a DG box specially made for such use. We hope to have a reader to digitize it soon, but wonder if anyone kno

Voltage regulator with alternate voltage source...

2016-04-07 Thread Bill Sudbrink
If you have a circuit which is normally designed to operate with an unregulated supply, through a regulator... say unregulated +8 through a 7805 to a regulated +5 and you want to test it independent of the +8 supply, if you leave the unregulated rail unattached and put +5 switcher straight onto the

Re: Voltage regulator with alternate voltage source...

2016-04-07 Thread wulfman
You should be just fine. On 4/7/2016 1:38 PM, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > If you have a circuit which is normally designed to > operate with an unregulated supply, through a regulator... > say unregulated +8 through a 7805 to a regulated +5 and > you want to test it independent of the +8 supply, if > y

Re: Voltage regulator with alternate voltage source...

2016-04-07 Thread drlegendre .
Err.. unless the voltage of the switcher is identical to that of the 7805, then one device will source current, and the other will sink it. Like putting two 6V batteries in parallel, where one is fresh and the other weak. Current will flow until the potentials are equalized. But with two regulated

Re: Voltage regulator with alternate voltage source...

2016-04-07 Thread William Donzelli
Per his description, the 7805's input will be open. It will not try to source any current, as it will have none to give. I suppose there might be a little leakage. -- Will On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 4:58 PM, drlegendre . wrote: > Err.. unless the voltage of the switcher is identical to that of the

Re: Voltage regulator with alternate voltage source...

2016-04-07 Thread Henk Gooijen
-Oorspronkelijk bericht- From: Bill Sudbrink Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 10:38 PM To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' Subject: Voltage regulator with alternate voltage source... If you have a circuit which is normally designed to operate with an unregulated supply,

Re: Voltage regulator with alternate voltage source...

2016-04-07 Thread John Robertson
On 04/07/2016 2:03 PM, William Donzelli wrote: Per his description, the 7805's input will be open. It will not try to source any current, as it will have none to give. I suppose there might be a little leakage. -- Will If his intention is to bypass the 7805 then it should have both input and

RE: Voltage regulator with alternate voltage source...

2016-04-07 Thread Bill Sudbrink
drlegendre wrote: > Not saying it's going to smoke-out, but it does > seem like a wonky thing to do. I disagree about "wonky" let me try with more diagram and less English: (+8) | VIN|ceramic cap |-][- ___| | | 7805 |--GROUND | |

RE: Voltage regulator with alternate voltage source...

2016-04-07 Thread Bill Sudbrink
Maybe I'm overthinking this. If I just put regulated +5 on the 7805 VIN will it work? Bill S.

RE: Voltage regulator with alternate voltage source...

2016-04-07 Thread geneb
On Thu, 7 Apr 2016, Bill Sudbrink wrote: Maybe I'm overthinking this. If I just put regulated +5 on the 7805 VIN will it work? Isn't the minimum input voltage for a 7805, 6vdc? g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/c

Re: VCF Europe, April 30th - May 1st, Munich + registration for VCF Berlin

2016-04-07 Thread Lawrence Wilkinson
On 07/04/16 00:56, Anke Stüber wrote: the 17th edition of VCF Europe[0] is coming soon! It will take place on April 30th and May 1st in Munich, Germany. Please be aware that the information on the English version of the website might be outdated or less detailed than on the German page, but Googl

Re: Data General Nova Star Trek

2016-04-07 Thread Pete Lancashire
Star Trek was a quite common BASIC (game ?) program on at least the HP 2000 time share systems, I've seen quite a few variations, on ran on RT-11. Be quite careful with the tape, the folds can be quite fragile depending on how and where the tape was stored. When I had my 'computer room' set up (i

Space Travel (was Re: Data General Nova Star Trek)

2016-04-07 Thread Swift Griggs
On Thu, 7 Apr 2016, Pete Lancashire wrote: > Star Trek was a quite common BASIC (game ?) program on at least the HP 2000 > time share systems, I've seen quite a few variations, on ran on RT-11. That reminds me of the "Space Travel" game/sim that Ken Thompson wrote for the first copy/iteration of U

Re: Space Travel (was Re: Data General Nova Star Trek)

2016-04-07 Thread Charles Anthony
On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 9:51 AM, Swift Griggs wrote: > On Thu, 7 Apr 2016, Pete Lancashire wrote: > > Star Trek was a quite common BASIC (game ?) program on at least the HP > 2000 > > time share systems, I've seen quite a few variations, on ran on RT-11. > > That reminds me of the "Space Travel" g

Re: Voltage regulator with alternate voltage source...

2016-04-07 Thread John Robertson
On 04/07/2016 2:25 PM, geneb wrote: On Thu, 7 Apr 2016, Bill Sudbrink wrote: Maybe I'm overthinking this. If I just put regulated +5 on the 7805 VIN will it work? Isn't the minimum input voltage for a 7805, 6vdc? g. More like 7VDC input minimum (dropout voltage) for 7805 - there are data

Re: Voltage regulator with alternate voltage source...

2016-04-07 Thread John Robertson
On 04/07/2016 2:18 PM, Bill Sudbrink wrote: drlegendre wrote: Not saying it's going to smoke-out, but it does seem like a wonky thing to do. I disagree about "wonky" let me try with more diagram and less English: (+8) | VIN|ceramic cap |-][- ___| | | 78

Re: Why do good floppy disks go bad?

2016-04-07 Thread Jules Richardson
On 04/07/2016 12:12 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: I'll go one step further and state that if you hear your drive squealing, throw the disk away and clean the heads before you insert another disk. If you even get the opportunity. I remember a disk - it was either Parrot or Wabash, I loathe them in equ

Mac SE/30 analogue board and PS caps

2016-04-07 Thread David Griffith
Does anyone have a list of the capacitors on the analogue board and power supply for a Mac SE/30? -- David Griffith d...@661.org A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-ma

Re: Why do good floppy disks go bad?

2016-04-07 Thread Jules Richardson
On 04/07/2016 12:11 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: My water heater supposedly has a guarantee for replacement for as long as I own my home. I haven't had to claim a replacement yet. I wonder if that also covers parts - e.g. elements and thermostats - or if they try and weasel out of it and only allow

Re: Voltage regulator with alternate voltage source...

2016-04-07 Thread William Donzelli
Does this warning assume that there is something on Vin, and not open? With a quick look at the internal schematic of an old-school 7805, it seems like what Bill suggests (leaving Vin open) will not actually do much. -- Will On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:23 PM, John Robertson wrote: > On 04/07/2016 2

Re: Why do good floppy disks go bad?

2016-04-07 Thread Al Kossow
On 4/7/16 10:11 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote: as a guarantee for replacement for as long > as I own my home. I haven't had to claim a replacement yet. > How often do you change the anode rod?

Re: Why do good floppy disks go bad?

2016-04-07 Thread Chuck Guzis
On 04/07/2016 04:41 PM, Al Kossow wrote: > > > On 4/7/16 10:11 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote: as a guarantee for replacement > for as long >> as I own my home. I haven't had to claim a replacement yet. >> > > How often do you change the anode rod? No anode rod. The tank is polybutylene. I suspect t

Re: Voltage regulator with alternate voltage source...

2016-04-07 Thread drlegendre .
"...if you leave the unregulated rail _unattached_ and put +5 switcher straight onto the regulated +5 rail..." My error, I read that as "attached". In any event, just lift both the 7805 IN and OUT pins, and then supply known-solid +5DC between the OUT and GND pads on the board. No, you can't fee

Re: Why do good floppy disks go bad?

2016-04-07 Thread b...@tds.net
You probably can't get the water heater replacement until the old COMPLETELY fails, which means it leaks and floods your house. - Original Message - From: Chuck Guzis To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Sent: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 13:11:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Why do goo

Pinging Joe Rigdon

2016-04-07 Thread Connor Krukosky
Anyone know if Joe Rigdon is still around? Thanks, -Connor K

ADM 3a with no horizontal scan

2016-04-07 Thread Seth Morabito
Hey folks, I've been on a tear trying to resurrect old projects here, and next on the list is an ADM 3a. This particular 3a has no horizontal scan. None at all. I just get a vertical line down the center of the screen. First thing I checked was the horizontal deflector on the yoke, which seems s

Re: Pinging Joe Rigdon

2016-04-07 Thread Zane Healy
> On Apr 7, 2016, at 7:08 PM, Connor Krukosky wrote: > > Anyone know if Joe Rigdon is still around? > > Thanks, > -Connor K > There is a name I haven’t heard in a *LONG* time. Zane

Re: ADM 3a with no horizontal scan

2016-04-07 Thread Eric Christopherson
On Thu, Apr 07, 2016, Seth Morabito wrote: > > Hey folks, > > I've been on a tear trying to resurrect old projects here, and next on > the list is an ADM 3a. > > This particular 3a has no horizontal scan. None at all. I just get a > vertical line down the center of the screen. First thing I chec

Re: Space Travel (was Re: Data General Nova Star Trek)

2016-04-07 Thread Pontus Pihlgren
On Thu, Apr 07, 2016 at 04:08:42PM -0700, Charles Anthony wrote: > > I have some code that does an X-11 emulation of the Atari Tempest vector > graphics display; I'm thinking of wedging it into the simh PDP8 code to > emulate the 338 and PDP-1 displays. > That woyld be fun :) I could perhaps be

Re: ADM 3a with no horizontal scan

2016-04-07 Thread Seth Morabito
* On Thu, Apr 07, 2016 at 11:34:52PM -0500, Eric Christopherson wrote: > > Is this the same one that was showing all exclamation points on every > other line? Nope, this is a different one. I got this one "as-is" in a known non-working state. -Seth

RE: Why do good floppy disks go bad?

2016-04-07 Thread Tom Gardner
As a number of folks have pointed out it's not the magnetic particles - rust is pretty stable; they read a 60 year old RAMAC at the CHM every week or so. And it's not likely the binder, fully cured epoxies are also very stable. Note disks do not have the tension problem that tape has. And it's no

Re: Data General Nova Star Trek

2016-04-07 Thread Erik Baigar
Hi Jim, short version: Yes, I can confirm existence of such a software and I'd be highly interested in a copy. Of course I can offer digitizing it ;-) longer version: I am preserving various Rolm (later Loral) 16 bit machines which are hardened, military machines w

Re: Why do good floppy disks go bad?

2016-04-07 Thread Chuck Guzis
On 04/07/2016 10:06 PM, Tom Gardner wrote: > And it's not likely the binder, fully cured epoxies are also very > stable. Note disks do not have the tension problem that tape has. There, I have to respectfully disagree. Floppy disks do not use an epoxy binder, but usually a polyurethane-based one

Re: Why do good floppy disks go bad?

2016-04-07 Thread Chuck Guzis
This from Fuji may also help a bit when examining the makeup of a floppy disk: http://www.fujifilmusa.com/shared/bin/Magnetic_Media_Terminology.pdf --Chuck