Hello,
On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 10:24 PM, Liam Proven wrote:
> On 23 May 2016 at 13:25, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:
>> On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 2:00 PM, Mattis Lind wrote:
>>>
>>> Isn't it possible to run dosemu on FreeBSD? I use imdv in dosemu on Linux.
>>
>> Unfortunately, dosemu only works on i3
On 23 May 2016 at 13:25, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:
> On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 2:00 PM, Mattis Lind wrote:
>>
>> Isn't it possible to run dosemu on FreeBSD? I use imdv in dosemu on Linux.
>
> Unfortunately, dosemu only works on i386, not amd64.
Is that a *BSD thing? I run DOSemu on both my x86-64
Update on NDwiki:
On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 2:09 PM, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:
> On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 3:20 AM, Tor Arntsen wrote:
>>
>> Ah, positive news. In the meantime I've been half-busy creating a
>> local (private, for now) re-construction of NDwiki, from archive.org.
>
> I was thinking abou
On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 8:36 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
>
>
> On 5/22/16 4:52 AM, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:
>
>> Now I just need to find a tool that converts IMD to raw format and
>> runs on FreeBSD.
>
> http://bitsavers.org/bits/convergent/ngen/imd2raw
> may be adequate. There may also be other versions
2016-05-23 4:30 GMT+02:00 Tor Arntsen :
> On 21 May 2016 at 18:38, Mattis Lind wrote:
>
> > I have now added some 80 more floppies to download if you would like to
> > check.
> >
> > http://www.datormuseum.se/documentation-software/norsk-data-floppy-disks
>
> Thanks Mattis!
> Downloaded. I will g
On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 2:00 PM, Mattis Lind wrote:
>
> Isn't it possible to run dosemu on FreeBSD? I use imdv in dosemu on Linux.
Unfortunately, dosemu only works on i386, not amd64.
--
Regards,
Torfinn
On 05/22/2016 07:30 PM, Tor Arntsen wrote:
> Chuck, the problem with IMDU is that it's an ms-dos program and
> Torfinn hasn't yet found a working emulator for his BSD setup. I'm
> sure there is one. But it's very inconvenient to have to go through
> MSDOS for this, so Al's suggestion of the imd
On 21 May 2016 at 18:38, Mattis Lind wrote:
> I have now added some 80 more floppies to download if you would like to
> check.
>
> http://www.datormuseum.se/documentation-software/norsk-data-floppy-disks
Thanks Mattis!
Downloaded. I will go through them soon.
Chuck, the problem with IMDU is tha
On 05/22/2016 11:36 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
>
>
> On 5/22/16 4:52 AM, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:
>
>> Now I just need to find a tool that converts IMD to raw format and
>> runs on FreeBSD.
>
> http://bitsavers.org/bits/convergent/ngen/imd2raw may be adequate.
> There may also be other versions arou
On 5/22/16 4:52 AM, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:
> Now I just need to find a tool that converts IMD to raw format and
> runs on FreeBSD.
http://bitsavers.org/bits/convergent/ngen/imd2raw
may be adequate. There may also be other versions around
that people have squashed bugs in it.
söndag 22 maj 2016 skrev Torfinn Ingolfsen :
> On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Mattis Lind > wrote:
> >
> > I have now added some 80 more floppies to download if you would like to
> > check.
> >
> > http://www.datormuseum.se/documentation-software/norsk-data-floppy-disks
>
> Very cool!
> Now I j
On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Mattis Lind wrote:
>
> I have now added some 80 more floppies to download if you would like to
> check.
>
> http://www.datormuseum.se/documentation-software/norsk-data-floppy-disks
Very cool!
Now I just need to find a tool that converts IMD to raw format and
runs
2016-04-22 14:52 GMT+02:00 Tor Arntsen :
> On 21 April 2016 at 14:43, Mattis Lind wrote:
>
> > PED2.DMK and DISK8.IMD is the same disk, but different ways of reading it
> > off the disk. I used both the standard PC-floppy and then also the
> > catweasel card. I tried the catweasel for some floppi
On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 3:20 AM, Tor Arntsen wrote:
>
> Ah, positive news. In the meantime I've been half-busy creating a
> local (private, for now) re-construction of NDwiki, from archive.org.
I was thinking about doing the same, but so far I haven't.
> BTW in case you don't
> have a public serv
On 4 May 2016 at 01:25, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:
> Update on NDwiki:
>
> I've been in contact with the persons responsible for NDwiki.
> Unfortunately, the Swedish gentleman who ran ndwiki.org got very busy
> with real life just after his server died, and still hasn't found time
> to get a new se
Update on NDwiki:
On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 2:52 PM, Tor Arntsen wrote:
>
> We (a few of us, including at least one more member of this list) used
> to document everything ND we could figure out on the 'ndwiki.org'
> site, but for unknown reasons (to me at least) it started going
> offline more and
16 3:51 PM
To: gene...@classiccmp.org; Discussion@
Subject: Re: bit slice chips (was Re: Harris H800 Computer)
On 04/24/2016 03:33 PM, ben wrote:
> On 4/23/2016 8:32 PM, dwight wrote:
>> I recall going to Mike Quinn's and seeing barrels of RTL.
>> I wish now that I'd boug
On 04/24/2016 03:33 PM, ben wrote:
On 4/23/2016 8:32 PM, dwight wrote:
I recall going to Mike Quinn's and seeing barrels of RTL.
I wish now that I'd bought a bunch of them.
Most DTL can be replace by a TTL except a few with different
pinouts and the NAND with the diode expand pin.
My oldest equi
On 4/23/2016 8:32 PM, dwight wrote:
I recall going to Mike Quinn's and seeing barrels of RTL.
I wish now that I'd bought a bunch of them.
Most DTL can be replace by a TTL except a few with different
pinouts and the NAND with the diode expand pin.
My oldest equipment has a mix of DTL and TTL.
Dwig
On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 2:52 PM, Tor Arntsen wrote:
>
> The only thing my emulator has for it is the unfortunate fact that ND
> emulators are few and far between.. they're as close to non-existing
> as can be. I know of only two other efforts other than my own, and one
> (the 'Haldens' emulator, a
I recall going to Mike Quinn's and seeing barrels of RTL.
I wish now that I'd bought a bunch of them.
Most DTL can be replace by a TTL except a few with different
pinouts and the NAND with the diode expand pin.
My oldest equipment has a mix of DTL and TTL.
Dwight
On 2016-Apr-23, at 4:15 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
> On 04/23/2016 05:46 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
>> On 04/23/2016 02:34 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote:
>>
>>> I was surprised by the early date code on the 7490s when I ran across
>>> them in a piece of test equipment.
>> What was surprising to me is how quickl
On 04/23/2016 05:46 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 04/23/2016 02:34 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote:
I was surprised by the early date code on the 7490s when I ran across
them in a piece of test equipment.
What was surprising to me is how quickly the industry standardized on
the TI 7400/5400 parts. Early
On 04/23/2016 04:34 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote:
The interesting thing was that there seemed to be a distrust of LSI
chips early on. I recall working on a project around 1973, where the
lead engineer preferred to design his own UART from SSI rather than use
one of the new UART chips.
Well, he may
On 04/23/2016 02:34 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote:
> I was surprised by the early date code on the 7490s when I ran across
> them in a piece of test equipment.
What was surprising to me is how quickly the industry standardized on
the TI 7400/5400 parts. Early (ca 1967) Moto databooks had MTTL I,
MTTL
On 2016-Apr-23, at 10:06 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
> On 04/23/2016 05:41 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>>> From: Brent Hilpert
>>
>>> I'd say the 74181 (1970) deserves a mention here. Simpler (no
>>> register component, ALU only) but it pretty much kicked off the
>>> start of IC-level bit slicing.
>
> I
On 4/22/2016 11:56 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote:
-Original Message- From: cctalk
[mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jecel Assumpcao
Jr. Sent: Friday, April 22, 2016 10:54 PM To: General Discussion:
On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: bit slice chips (was Re:
Harris H800
On 04/23/2016 11:29 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
> From: Jon Elson
> The 11/45 and 11/70 are mostly the same processor. ...
> the data paths boards and FPU are the same part numbers
'Yes' to the FPP (well, there are two versions, the FP11-B and FP11-C, but
they are both identical in t
> AFAIK, the only non-FPP board in the CPU which is interchangeable
> between the two machines is the M8132 (instruction register decode &
> condition codes)
So it seems like there's an(other) error in the DEC documentation.
If one looks at 11/70 Maintenance Manual (EK-11070-MM-002),
On 04/23/2016 05:41 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>> From: Brent Hilpert
>
>> I'd say the 74181 (1970) deserves a mention here. Simpler (no
>> register component, ALU only) but it pretty much kicked off the
>> start of IC-level bit slicing.
I recall reading about the 74181 introduction back in the day-
> From: Jon Elson
> The 11/45 and 11/70 are mostly the same processor. ...
> the data paths boards and FPU are the same part numbers
'Yes' to the FPP (well, there are two versions, the FP11-B and FP11-C, but
they are both identical in the two machines).
'No' to the data paths, though
On 04/23/2016 07:41 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
> From: Brent Hilpert
> I'd say the 74181 (1970) deserves a mention here. Simpler (no register
> component, ALU only) but it pretty much kicked off the start of
> IC-level bit slicing.
Yes, it was used in quite a few machines. Amon
On 04/22/2016 11:10 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
Yikes, too many typos, let me try over!
I built a 32-bit micro-engine for a project that was
eventually going to be an IBM 360-like CPU.
I picked the 360, not because it was the greatest design,
but it was VERY well laid-out and would be easy to write
e
> From: Brent Hilpert
> I'd say the 74181 (1970) deserves a mention here. Simpler (no register
> component, ALU only) but it pretty much kicked off the start of
> IC-level bit slicing.
Yes, it was used in quite a few machines. Among the PDP-11's alone, it is
found in the -11/45, /
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jecel
> Assumpcao Jr.
> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2016 10:54 PM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: bit slice chips (was Re: Harris H800 Computer)
>
&
-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jecel
Assumpcao Jr.
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2016 10:54 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: bit slice chips (was Re: Harris H800 Computer)
Eric Smith mentioned:
> [2901 A
On 04/22/2016 09:36 PM, ben wrote:
> On 4/22/2016 10:17 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
> What about Radio Shack? $2 for 7400 or 50 cents a gate. Now the
> latest INTEL product has how many gates again?
By the mid 80s, some of us were trying to think of creative uses for the
Z80, which was then going for
On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 10:03 PM, ben wrote:
>> Not exactly bit-slice, but how about the National IMP-16 chip set?
It's bit-slice. The RALU chips were four bits wide, and were used in
at least three different processor architectures, the IMP-4, IMP-8,
and IMP-16. (Despite the similarity of naming
On 4/22/2016 10:17 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 04/22/2016 09:03 PM, ben wrote:
Too Early , Too Slow , Too $$$ is my guess. With out the 6800/6502
8080/Z80 price wars, how much would a 8 bit CPU be in the late 70s?
$75?
Given the price of memory and other "then-LSI" in the late 70s, $75
doesn't
On 04/22/2016 09:03 PM, ben wrote:
> Too Early , Too Slow , Too $$$ is my guess. With out the 6800/6502
> 8080/Z80 price wars, how much would a 8 bit CPU be in the late 70s?
> $75?
Given the price of memory and other "then-LSI" in the late 70s, $75
doesn't sound unreasonable at all. NSC did brin
On 04/22/2016 10:36 PM, ben wrote:
I think the problem was memory at the time. What was the
use having
a FAST bitslice machine, but real memory at the time was
SMALL and SLOw.
Well, I had 45 ns static RAM for control store on my 2903
bit slice machine. Yes, those were 1K x 4 chips, and I put
I built a 32-bit micro-engine for a project that was
eventually going to be an IBM 360-line CPU.
I pieced the 360, not because it was the greatest design,
but it was VERY well laid-out and would be easy to write
efficient microcode for. I used the 2903 with 2910
controller. I was able to get
On 4/22/2016 9:16 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 04/22/2016 07:54 PM, Jecel Assumpcao Jr. wrote:
I'd add the Texas Instruments SN74S481, SN54LS481 and SN74LS481 TTL
4 bit slices. The Schottky version had a 90ns clock cycle and the
low power versions 120ns. These were 48 pins chips and didn't have
an
On 4/22/2016 8:54 PM, Jecel Assumpcao Jr. wrote:
Eric Smith mentioned:
[2901 A, B, and C, CMOS versions]
[2903 and 29203]
[Intel 3001 and 3002]
[MMI 5701/6701]
[Motorola MC10800]
I'd add the Texas Instruments SN74S481, SN54LS481 and SN74LS481 TTL 4
bit slices. The Schottky version had a 90ns c
On 04/22/2016 07:54 PM, Jecel Assumpcao Jr. wrote:
> I'd add the Texas Instruments SN74S481, SN54LS481 and SN74LS481 TTL
> 4 bit slices. The Schottky version had a 90ns clock cycle and the
> low power versions 120ns. These were 48 pins chips and didn't have
> an internal register bank like the 290
Eric Smith mentioned:
> [2901 A, B, and C, CMOS versions]
> [2903 and 29203]
> [Intel 3001 and 3002]
> [MMI 5701/6701]
> [Motorola MC10800]
I'd add the Texas Instruments SN74S481, SN54LS481 and SN74LS481 TTL 4
bit slices. The Schottky version had a 90ns clock cycle and the low
power versions 120ns
I do, back at my old house. I even have a bunch of the old 10G line of
chips, unused. They came out of Collins surplus back in the early
1990s.
--
Will
On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 8:37 PM, Eric Smith wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 6:25 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
>> There was a 29G01 offered for
On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 6:25 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
> There was a 29G01 offered for a short time. Worth several times their
> weight in gold.
Yes, I forgot about those. Gallium arsenide MESFET for very high
speed. Anyone have data sheets for that family?
There was a 29G01 offered for a short time. Worth several times their
weight in gold.
--
Will
On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 8:15 PM, Eric Smith wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 12:07 AM, Raymond Wiker wrote:
>> I was a bit surprised to see that it used 2901 with a date code of 1985 -
>> the 2901 was
On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 12:07 AM, Raymond Wiker wrote:
> I was a bit surprised to see that it used 2901 with a date code of 1985 -
> the 2901 was introduced 10 years before.
The 2901 was the workhorse bit-slice data path chip for many years.
The A, B, and C suffix parts were progressively faster
> On Apr 22, 2016, at 05:44, Kevin Anderson
> wrote:
>
> The Vulcan Operation System (VOS)
I wish I could remember what operating system was in use on the Harris that I
used at UNLV in 1987-1989. I was given a slim photocopied booklet listing the
basic instructions I needed to use, and using
On 21 April 2016 at 14:43, Mattis Lind wrote:
> PED2.DMK and DISK8.IMD is the same disk, but different ways of reading it
> off the disk. I used both the standard PC-floppy and then also the
> catweasel card. I tried the catweasel for some floppies that I had reading
> trouble with.
>
> I am real
I did not use the H800, but I cut my computing teeth on smaller Harris models
in college (where my work study job was in the computer center, and I was also
a computer science major) and then part-time employment afterwards with the
Army Corps of Engineers, which was big on Harris computers at t
On 4/21/16 12:38 PM, Kyle Owen wrote:
> I'd be happy to dump the microcode/PROMs when I get some time, perhaps over
> the summer.
>
> Kyle
>
thanks. I just saw the panels, so I'll pull them out for pics
On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 1:36 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
>
> I have two front panels for a similar system.
>
Think you could take some pictures? The lone picture I have of the H800
isn't a close-up of the panel, and I'd very much like to see what it looks
like up close.
It is a 24-bit mini. Docs are o
On 4/20/16 11:07 PM, Raymond Wiker wrote:
> I was a bit surprised to see that it used 2901 with a date code of 1985 -
> the 2901 was introduced 10 years before.
>
I designed a microcoded 12-bit graphics processor in 1985 using them. They
were the thing to use until CMOS bit-slices came out (ac
On 4/20/16 9:21 PM, Kyle Owen wrote:
> I seem to have acquired a few boards from a decommissioned system.
it also would be a good thing to dump proms/microcode from them.
On 4/20/16 9:21 PM, Kyle Owen wrote:
> I seem to have acquired a few boards from a decommissioned system. Don't
> know what I'll do with these for now, other than maybe hang them up for
> display purposes...unless someone has one, what else can one do?
>
I have two front panels for a similar sy
> On 21 Apr 2016, at 14:43 , Mattis Lind wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Hey, this is useful.
>>> Thanks for doing it!
>>
>> Yep!
>> Already investigating. IMD gave me some trouble, had to resort to
>> dosbox. Source for PED (Programmer's Editor) version G? I've never
>> seen source. I have version F as a :P
> On Apr 21, 2016, at 07:27, Paul Koning wrote:
>
> Thick mat of twisted pair wiring, and console with two round CRTs, that's a
> good description of a CDC 6000 series mainframe. They certainly weren't as
> easy to use as Unix machines, but a lot faster than anything else at the time
> they
> On Apr 20, 2016, at 11:33 PM, Mark J. Blair wrote:
>
> Back when I spent a couple of years at UNLV in the late 80s, I had a class in
> which I was forced to use an account on a Harris H800 computer, if my memory
> serves me correctly. Being a BSD snob, I felt that was a terrible imposition,
> >
> > Hey, this is useful.
> > Thanks for doing it!
>
> Yep!
> Already investigating. IMD gave me some trouble, had to resort to
> dosbox. Source for PED (Programmer's Editor) version G? I've never
> seen source. I have version F as a :PROG file. I'm guessing that Planc
> version C may compile it
On 21 April 2016 at 13:22, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 12:40 PM, Mattis Lind wrote:
>>
>> Speaking of NORD-10 I put some scanned documents here:
>> http://www.datormuseum.se/documentation-software/norsk-data-documentation
>> and also a few diskettes that I have imaged:
>> h
On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 12:40 PM, Mattis Lind wrote:
>
> Speaking of NORD-10 I put some scanned documents here:
> http://www.datormuseum.se/documentation-software/norsk-data-documentation
> and also a few diskettes that I have imaged:
> http://www.datormuseum.se/documentation-software/norsk-data-f
> Almost :-)
> The NORD-10/S was a NORD-10 plus caching and paging, while the
> bitsliced version was to be called NORD-10/M (M for 'micro'), and was
> so fast that it was renamed NORD-100, which was shortened to ND-100
> later that same year (1978 - but the machine itself was released in
> 1979, s
On 21 April 2016 at 08:07, Raymond Wiker wrote:
> I was a bit surprised to see that it used 2901 with a date code of 1985 -
> the 2901 was introduced 10 years before.
>
> In the late 1970s, Norsk Data implemented the ND10 architecture with the
> 2901. It was thought that this would give a modest
On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 6:46 AM, Mark Linimon wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 11:21:03PM -0500, Kyle Owen wrote:
> > I seem to have acquired a few boards from a decommissioned system.
>
> 74S00s, they were going for speed.
>
> The 2900s are the well-known bit-slice chips.
>
> All definitely the
While I’d used several computers before the Harris H550 (I think that’s the
right model, we called it “SNAP II” in the Navy), the Harris was the first that
I worked on professionally. Even though I was an Electrician at the time, I
ended up as one of the people working on the Harris, and somewh
On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 11:21:03PM -0500, Kyle Owen wrote:
> I seem to have acquired a few boards from a decommissioned system.
74S00s, they were going for speed.
The 2900s are the well-known bit-slice chips.
All definitely the level of technology I cut my teeth on.
mcl
I seem to have acquired a few boards from a decommissioned system. Don't
know what I'll do with these for now, other than maybe hang them up for
display purposes...unless someone has one, what else can one do?
http://imgur.com/a/NAThh
This is the only picture I have of this particular installatio
On Wed, Apr 20, 2016, Mark J. Blair wrote:
> Back when I spent a couple of years at UNLV in the late 80s, I had a
> class in which I was forced to use an account on a Harris H800
> computer, if my memory serves me correctly. Being a BSD snob, I felt
> that was a terrible imposition, much like being
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