> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck
> Guzis
> Sent: 15 June 2015 18:25
> To: gene...@classiccmp.org; discuss...@classiccmp.org:On-Topic and Off-
> Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: using new technology on old
Not all EE's have the same education with regard to how semiconductors
function. When I was in school I took a class in semiconductor physics
- an entire semester on how the wee beasties function - more than most EEs.
The prof., Henry Guckel, told an interesting story about an advanced IBM
comput
On 15 June 2015 at 22:55, Mark J. Blair wrote:
>
>> On Jun 15, 2015, at 13:46 , Pontus Pihlgren wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 04:55:57PM +, tony duell wrote:
>>>
>>> Unfortunately I believe you. Use at least a thousand times more components
>>> than
>>> you need to.
>>
>> Actually it'
On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 08:25:46AM +0200, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 09:26:38PM +0200, Alexander Schreiber wrote:
> >
> > That has been done before for production purposes. I kid you not.
>
> I believe you. I found this on youtube, looks like the have some sort of
> generat
On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 09:26:38PM +0200, Alexander Schreiber wrote:
>
> That has been done before for production purposes. I kid you not.
I believe you. I found this on youtube, looks like the have some sort of
generator or boiler external to the shovel. Perhaps it's compressed air?
https://ww
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 10:53:33PM +0200, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 04:53:01PM +, tony duell wrote:
> >
> > > I also think it is in the spirit of the computer - using what is available
> > > to fix a problem at hand. I think the arduino was overkill when an attiny
> > >
> On Jun 17, 2015, at 10:50 , Toby Thain wrote:
> Here's a cute gotcha I hit this week:
>
> - Have a running Windows 8.1 machine with PS/2 keyboard.
> - Shut it down, start up with only USB keyboard.
> - Shut down and boot again with PS/2 keyboard atached.
> - Windows ignores it (although BIOS f
(I would change the subject line, but I am not sure how to do it in my
ISP's web mail client)
As far as I know XH558 will be permanently stationed at Finningley after
this year's flying season is completed. The full details are here:
http://www.vulcantothesky.org/, including dates of flypasts and
On 2015-06-16 1:14 AM, Mark J. Blair wrote:
...
Maybe this isn't the best time or place for this particular rant,
but
in my opinion, Windows' implementation of USB is fundamentally broken.
It's a mouse, you stupid computer! You shouldn't need to spend a minute
or more installing a new device dri
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 10:14:18PM -0700, Mark J. Blair wrote:
>
> > On Jun 15, 2015, at 21:59, tony duell wrote: Even
> > though there are at least 4 different USB connectors
>
> Ok, you got me there! When I was working for a GPS startup, I used mini-B on
> everything I designed with USB (a
On 17 June 2015 at 05:09, Huw Davies wrote:
> Funny I was discussing just this pair of planes last night - I last saw them
> fly in 1971 at RAF Shawbury. Of course they were both in active service then
> and I remember watching the Lightning do a supersonic pass with much joy.
>
Off topic for a
> On 16 Jun 2015, at 7:27 am, Robert Jarratt
> wrote:
>
> And I saw an Avro Vulcan flying this weekend, this year is the last time
> that will ever happen. Two weeks before that I watched a General Electric
> Lightning blast down a runway that I was standing right next to (it wasn't
> allowed t
On Tue, 16 Jun 2015, tony duell wrote:
Actually, IIRC a USB A male->female cable violates the spec...
The spec forbids extending the cable further?
Or should the spec forbid absolutely any cable,
with absolutely any USB connector on either end?
> > Sounds to me like you are more of a victim than a perpetrator here. Isn't
> > there some OSHA regulation against
> > USB A to A cables? :)
> well, you know, it's a different world these days. You go to these places
> down dark alleys, surrounded by shady characters and you can buy them.
O
Again, I wonder if the data retention time decreases as the number of bits
per device increases. Intuitively it should. Mind you, any SD card is
probably
going to be more reliable than a real TU58 tape now :-)
I think that paper tape, used outdoors on a rainy day, is likely to be more
reliable
On Tuesday (06/16/2015 at 07:43AM -0700), Mark J. Blair wrote:
>
> > On Jun 16, 2015, at 07:36, Chris Elmquist wrote:
> > So, now you have to use a Type A to Type A cable to connect this box to
> > your computer.
> >
> > That is just really, really messed up and I honestly tried to make it
> > r
> On Jun 16, 2015, at 07:36, Chris Elmquist wrote:
> So, now you have to use a Type A to Type A cable to connect this box to
> your computer.
>
> That is just really, really messed up and I honestly tried to make it
> right but it was like pushing a rope.
>
> I hope my friends will visit me in
On Tuesday (06/16/2015 at 07:24AM -0700), Mark J. Blair wrote:
>
> > On Jun 16, 2015, at 06:46, tony duell wrote:
> >
> > Again, I wonder if the data retention time decreases as the number of bits
> > per device increases. Intuitively it should. Mind you, any SD card is
> > probably
> > going t
On Monday (06/15/2015 at 10:14PM -0700), Mark J. Blair wrote:
>
> > On Jun 15, 2015, at 21:59, tony duell wrote:
> > Even though there are at least 4 different USB connectors
>
> Ok, you got me there! When I was working for a GPS startup, I used mini-B on
> everything I designed with USB (a
Choosing the larger card is, IMO, the right answer because you don't
actually waste the space, you extend the life significantly because the
wear leveling will spread your 256K across the entire flash region.
The larger that region, the less often you re-write the same cells,
thereby extending the
> On Jun 16, 2015, at 06:46, tony duell wrote:
>
> Again, I wonder if the data retention time decreases as the number of bits
> per device increases. Intuitively it should. Mind you, any SD card is probably
> going to be more reliable than a real TU58 tape now :-)
I think that paper tape, used
> >
> > I am of course counting all the transistors inside that chip.
>
> Well, that was obvious. But it raises an interesting point, today you
> can cram a whole computer in the footprint of the simplest DIP carrier.
> For the same price point and same reliablity. Is it then overkill if you
> cho
On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 04:28:16AM +, tony duell wrote:
>
> I am of course counting all the transistors inside that chip.
Well, that was obvious. But it raises an interesting point, today you
can cram a whole computer in the footprint of the simplest DIP carrier.
For the same price point an
On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 04:32:23AM +, tony duell wrote:
>
> Oh come on. You yourself said you are here to learn. This module
> is hardly complicatated.
Well, you got me there :)
/P
> On Jun 15, 2015, at 21:59, tony duell wrote:
> Even though there are at least 4 different USB connectors
Ok, you got me there! When I was working for a GPS startup, I used mini-B on
everything I designed with USB (always devices, never hosts, and no need for
USB OTG). Then we got bought
>
> In my opinion, the magic is inside the transistor. Once you bottle enough
> magic to make a good transistor, the
> rest is pretty straightforward. :)
Err, yes... It is impossible to understand the transistor using classical
physics
People have made transistors at home, even made their
> On Jun 15, 2015, at 21:28, tony duell wrote:
> As am I. I've learnt a heck of a lot since I started (there is a common myth
> that there is something magic about a processor. This hobby has taught
> me to understand quite a few at the gate level). And the day I stop learning
> is the day I am i
> >
> > I am very worried that people would rather use a microcontroller than change
> > a couple of passives. Can't anyone read a schematic and think
>
> Nope. I didn't know this hobby required a degree in electrical
> engineering.
Well it had better not. I don't have one
> By your criteria
> >
> > Unfortunately I believe you. Use at least a thousand times more components
> > than
> > you need to.
>
> Actually it's just two, a Teensy and a usb cable. (Sorry, I couldn't
> resist).
I am of course counting all the transistors inside that chip.
> How do you suggest I learn? I believe
> > I am very worried that people would rather use a microcontroller than change
> > a couple of passives. Can't anyone read a schematic and think
>
> The exact same argument could be made for somebody using an NE555 instead of
> discrete transistors to blink an
> LED, or discrete transistor
> > Why not do it properly first time? What is the rush in bringing up a
> > classic computer? And for a test,
> > use the TTL pulse generator you have on your bench.
>
> I don't have one. I have a lot of test equipment, but mostly for RF work. If
> I needed to generate TTL pulses, I'd
> proba
> On Jun 15, 2015, at 14:27 , Robert Jarratt
> wrote:
> This particular thread has all the hallmarks of one that *could* descend
> into a flame war. Thank you for avoiding that!
I think we're doing ok. The same folks having a spirited debate in this thread
are carrying on just fine together in
> On Jun 15, 2015, at 14:56 , Dave G4UGM wrote:
>
> A friend of mine refused to buy modern SD Cards because there was no way he
> was going to fill them. Trouble is that although smaller SD cards were
> available they were way more expensive (being discontinued and therefore
> rare and valuable)
ing new technology on old machines. Was: PDP-12 Restoration
> at the RICM
>
>
> > On Jun 15, 2015, at 13:46 , Pontus Pihlgren
> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 04:55:57PM +, tony duell wrote:
> >>
> >> Unfortunately I believe you. U
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Pontus
> Pihlgren
> Sent: 15 June 2015 22:06
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: using new technology on old machines. Was: PDP-12 Restoration
at
>
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 01:59:11PM -0700, Mark J. Blair wrote:
>
> Big. VERY big. :)
>
> And one more thing (until the next thing comes to mind): I consider
> this to be an enjoyable and level-headed debate, just in case anybody
> gets the mistaken impression that I'm trying to come down hard on
> On Jun 15, 2015, at 13:53 , Pontus Pihlgren wrote:
> No but I would put an electric heater in a steam engine if it meant
> restoration would progress faster.
As long as you don't damage the firebox installing your heater, what's the big
deal? Making first steam is going to be a gradual and c
> On Jun 15, 2015, at 13:46 , Pontus Pihlgren wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 04:55:57PM +, tony duell wrote:
>>
>> Unfortunately I believe you. Use at least a thousand times more components
>> than
>> you need to.
>
> Actually it's just two, a Teensy and a usb cable. (Sorry, I couldn'
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 04:53:01PM +, tony duell wrote:
>
> > I also think it is in the spirit of the computer - using what is available
> > to fix a problem at hand. I think the arduino was overkill when an attiny
> > (smaller, easier to hide) would probably serve just as well.
>
> Would you
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 07:15:14PM +, tony duell wrote:
>
> I am very worried that people would rather use a microcontroller than change
> a couple of passives. Can't anyone read a schematic and think
Nope. I didn't know this hobby required a degree in electrical
engineering.
By your cr
> On Jun 15, 2015, at 11:54 , tony duell wrote:
> Ah, 'there's not the time to do it properly, but there is the time to do it
> again'.
>
> Why not do it properly first time? What is the rush in bringing up a classic
> computer?
Sorry for yet another reply, but I didn't think of this until ju
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 04:55:57PM +, tony duell wrote:
>
> Unfortunately I believe you. Use at least a thousand times more components
> than
> you need to.
Actually it's just two, a Teensy and a usb cable. (Sorry, I couldn't
resist).
>
> In general this worries me if you are restoring a
> On Jun 15, 2015, at 12:15 , tony duell wrote:
>
> I am very worried that people would rather use a microcontroller than change
> a couple of passives. Can't anyone read a schematic and think
The exact same argument could be made for somebody using an NE555 instead of
discrete transistors
> On Jun 15, 2015, at 11:54 , tony duell wrote:
> Why not do it properly first time? What is the rush in bringing up a classic
> computer? And for a test,
> use the TTL pulse generator you have on your bench.
I don't have one. I have a lot of test equipment, but mostly for RF work. If I
needed
> We're talking about putting in a rather complex computer to generate a
> baud rate. Are people really that handicapped when it comes to building
> hardware nowadays? Are people aware how easy baud generators are?
I've jsut turned up the M452 schematic. Has anyone else looked at it?
It's a RC
> >
> > Would you put plastic handles on a piecc of antique furniture? Would you
> > make the seatboard for an antique longcase clock from MDF?
> > Both are easily reversable, BTW.
>
> Sure! Temporarily and reversibly, of course, and I'd hope to replace them
> with proper stuff when possible. But
> On Jun 15, 2015, at 09:53 , tony duell wrote:
>
>
>> I also think it is in the spirit of the computer - using what is available
>> to fix a problem at hand. I think the arduino was overkill when an attiny
>> (smaller, easier to hide) would probably serve just as well.
>
> Would you put plast
On 6/15/2015 11:33 AM, Paul Koning wrote:
On Jun 15, 2015, at 1:28 PM, ben wrote:
On 6/15/2015 10:57 AM, Dave G4UGM wrote:
But alas the software does *not* support the older chips.
How old is old? I managed to get a copy of ISE10.1 downloaded,
installed and running without phoning, ringing
> On Jun 15, 2015, at 1:28 PM, ben wrote:
>
> On 6/15/2015 10:57 AM, Dave G4UGM wrote:
>> But alas the software does *not* support the older chips.
>>
>> How old is old? I managed to get a copy of ISE10.1 downloaded,
>> installed and running without phoning, ringing or otherwise jumping
>> thro
On 6/15/2015 10:57 AM, Dave G4UGM wrote:
But alas the software does *not* support the older chips.
How old is old? I managed to get a copy of ISE10.1 downloaded,
installed and running without phoning, ringing or otherwise jumping
through hoops. That supports the Spartan 2 which has been obsolete
On 06/14/2015 12:41 PM, Simon Claessen wrote:
as long as it is done in a way that it can be restored to its original,
i have no problems in using newer technology in older machines. we have
a alix sbc build into our tek 4002a for demonstrational purpouses, all
done without damaging or altering th
> > We're talking about putting in a rather complex computer to generate
> > a baud rate. Are people really that handicapped when it comes to
> > building hardware nowadays?
>
> Speaking for myself, yes.
Unfortunately I believe you. Use at least a thousand times more components than
you need to.
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of ben
> Sent: 15 June 2015 17:18
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: FPGA tricks - Re: using new technology on old machines. Was:
> PDP-12 Restoration at the RICM
>
> On
> I also think it is in the spirit of the computer - using what is available
> to fix a problem at hand. I think the arduino was overkill when an attiny
> (smaller, easier to hide) would probably serve just as well.
Would you put plastic handles on a piecc of antique furniture? Would you
make th
> On Jun 15, 2015, at 09:18, ben wrote:
> But alas the software does *not* support the older chips.
> You want to make a mod 5 years down the road, sorry we do not
> support that model any more. TTL needs to be stock piled
> now for the next +50 years.
Good point. Just as TTL needs to be stockp
On 6/15/2015 9:08 AM, Toby Thain wrote:
On 2015-06-15 9:35 AM, Dave G4UGM wrote:
I don't think it is over kill. If you want over kill try this:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALXax3Gydl8
and FPGA implementation of the Baby or SSEM which had 32x32 bits of
RAM. The implementation uses around
On 2015-06-15 9:35 AM, Dave G4UGM wrote:
I don't think it is over kill. If you want over kill try this:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALXax3Gydl8
and FPGA implementation of the Baby or SSEM which had 32x32 bits of
RAM. The implementation uses around 1% of the Spartan 3E 1200K gates,
and tha
On Jun 15, 2015, at 3:06 AM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 11:52:28AM +0200, Johnny Billquist wrote:
>
>> We're talking about putting in a rather complex computer to generate
>> a baud rate. Are people really that handicapped when it comes to
>> building hardware nowadays?
>
ssiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Johnny
> Billquist
> Sent: 15 June 2015 10:52
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: using new technology on old machines. Was: PDP-12 Restoration
> at the RICM
>
> While I agree that as long as things can be restored it's not a real prob
> We're talking about putting in a rather complex computer to generate
> a baud rate. Are people really that handicapped when it comes to
> building hardware nowadays?
Speaking as someone who didn't do that, but might well have - it's not
a question of "handicapped"; it's a question of convenienc
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 11:52:28AM +0200, Johnny Billquist wrote:
>
> We're talking about putting in a rather complex computer to generate
> a baud rate. Are people really that handicapped when it comes to
> building hardware nowadays?
Speaking for myself, yes.
I have a Teensy 2.0 lying at my de
While I agree that as long as things can be restored it's not a real
problem, I'm surprised that not more people consider it a serious overkill.
We're talking about putting in a rather complex computer to generate a
baud rate. Are people really that handicapped when it comes to building
hardwa
Indeed, you use what is at hand and what you are comfortable with.
/P
On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 09:41:42PM +0200, Simon Claessen wrote:
> as long as it is done in a way that it can be restored to its
> original, i have no problems in using newer technology in older
> machines. we have a alix sbc b
I also think it is in the spirit of the computer - using what is available
to fix a problem at hand. I think the arduino was overkill when an attiny
(smaller, easier to hide) would probably serve just as well.
If you have the ttl logic bits lying around and know how to use them, fine.
Still would
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