[cctalk] Re: Knockoffs, was: Low cost logic analyzer

2023-03-19 Thread Jonathan Chapman via cctalk
> Make of that what you will, but if that isn't just a slander, that's the > guy upon whose legacy everyone is relying. Everyone knows (or ought to, at this point) RMS is a weird guy and at best makes some seriously questionable life choices and misinformed public statements. There's a reason he

[cctalk] Re: Knockoffs, was: Low cost logic analyzer

2023-03-19 Thread Ethan O'Toole via cctalk
I once heard a story from someone* who was told by a journalist that while said journalist was interviewing Richard Stallman he was [WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT COMMENCES HERE] picking the jam from between his toes and eating it. Oh, that's a thing of legend. Fear not, for there is video. https://

[cctalk] Re: Knockoffs, was: Low cost logic analyzer

2023-03-17 Thread Ken Seefried via cctalk
> I once heard... You don't need hearsay. FSF leadership seems to be proud, and vocal, of things that make the rest of us cringe. On Fri, Mar 17, 2023 at 7:48 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > I once heard a story from someone* who was told by a journalist that whil

[cctalk] Re: Knockoffs, was: Low cost logic analyzer

2023-03-17 Thread Sellam Abraham via cctalk
I once heard a story from someone* who was told by a journalist that while said journalist was interviewing Richard Stallman he was [WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT COMMENCES HERE] picking the jam from between his toes and eating it. Make of that what you will, but if that isn't just a slander, that's th

[cctalk] Re: Knockoffs, was: Low cost logic analyzer

2023-03-17 Thread Ken Seefried via cctalk
FSF hasn't done anything in at least a decade, but someone from there "is still around", so they're somehow relevant. People who actually are doing something (e.g litigating) are dismissed because you "don't know these people" (aside: there's someone who cares about open source who doesn't know wh

[cctalk] Re: Knockoffs, was: Low cost logic analyzer

2023-03-17 Thread Alexander Huemer via cctalk
On Thu, Mar 16, 2023 at 09:25:31PM -0400, Ken Seefried wrote: > On Thu, Mar 16, 2023 at 12:32 PM Alexander Huemer via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > On Thu, Mar 16, 2023 at 11:05:41PM +0800, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: > > > FSF does not enforce anything. > > > > https://gpl-viola

[cctalk] Re: Knockoffs, was: Low cost logic analyzer

2023-03-16 Thread Ken Seefried via cctalk
On Thu, Mar 16, 2023 at 12:32 PM Alexander Huemer via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Thu, Mar 16, 2023 at 11:05:41PM +0800, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: > > FSF does not enforce anything. > > https://gpl-violations.org/ > They do though. > > -Alex > Go to 'News' on that site and the

[cctalk] Re: Knockoffs, was: Low cost logic analyzer

2023-03-16 Thread Alexander Huemer via cctalk
On Thu, Mar 16, 2023 at 11:05:41PM +0800, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: > FSF does not enforce anything. https://gpl-violations.org/ They do though. -Alex

[cctalk] Re: Knockoffs, was: Low cost logic analyzer

2023-03-16 Thread Jonathan Chapman via cctalk
> FSF does not enforce anything. I repeatedly begged for help with Desktop > CYBER which was GPL licensed and they did not even bother to reply. I'm told by a friend at Red Hat that RH/IBM has a department for that kind of thing and can/will provide legal help for outside projects. Thanks, Jonat

[cctalk] Re: Knockoffs, was: Low cost logic analyzer

2023-03-16 Thread Paul Koning via cctalk
Maybe they only do for GPL items of their own. paul > On Mar 16, 2023, at 11:05 AM, Tom Hunter via cctalk > wrote: > > FSF does not enforce anything. I repeatedly begged for help with Desktop > CYBER which was GPL licensed and they did not even bother to reply. > > Tom Hunter

[cctalk] Re: Knockoffs, was: Low cost logic analyzer

2023-03-16 Thread Tom Hunter via cctalk
FSF does not enforce anything. I repeatedly begged for help with Desktop CYBER which was GPL licensed and they did not even bother to reply. Tom Hunter On Thu, Mar 16, 2023 at 7:46 AM Paul Koning via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > On Mar 14, 2023, at 10:57 PM, Jonathan Chapman vi

[cctalk] Re: Knockoffs, was: Low cost logic analyzer

2023-03-15 Thread Paul Koning via cctalk
> On Mar 14, 2023, at 10:57 PM, Jonathan Chapman via cctalk > wrote: > >> If you posted your design as Open Source, someone else producing it isn't a >> knockoff, it's the system working as intended. > > What is it when the design is open source, but they're not complying with the > terms

[cctalk] Re: Knockoffs, was: Low cost logic analyzer

2023-03-15 Thread Jim Brain via cctalk
On 3/15/2023 10:05 AM, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk wrote: If you posted your design as Open Source, someone else producing it isn't a knockoff, it's the system working as intended.  -- Chris I remember a talk by LadyADA of Adafruit at HOPE about starting a company making open source hardware and

[cctalk] Re: Knockoffs, was: Low cost logic analyzer

2023-03-15 Thread Ethan O'Toole via cctalk
If you posted your design as Open Source, someone else producing it isn't a knockoff, it's the system working as intended. -- Chris I remember a talk by LadyADA of Adafruit at HOPE about starting a company making open source hardware and success and all that. It's easy if you have the market

[cctalk] Re: Knockoffs, was: Low cost logic analyzer

2023-03-15 Thread Peter Corlett via cctalk
On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 09:16:02PM +, Jonathan Chapman via cctalk wrote: [...] > It's nice to support the designers in some capacity, but buying knockoffs > fuels the ecosystem that creates knockoffs. With our stuff, it's never > been that a single knockoff operation eats our lunch, it's that t

[cctalk] Re: Knockoffs, was: Low cost logic analyzer

2023-03-15 Thread Chris Zach via cctalk
I have been thinking about this discussion: I bought one of the cheap 8 channel units on Ebay and downloaded the Salee software. It works extremely well for debugging logic issues on my pdp8/L's but it has a few issues: The buffer size is miniscule, and I get data overruns at higher sample ra

[cctalk] Re: Knockoffs, was: Low cost logic analyzer

2023-03-14 Thread Jonathan Chapman via cctalk
> If you posted your design as Open Source, someone else producing it isn't a > knockoff, it's the system working as intended. What is it when the design is open source, but they're not complying with the terms of the license? That's what really bugs me, the "cost" of producing your own from on

[cctalk] Re: Knockoffs, was: Low cost logic analyzer

2023-03-14 Thread Jim Brain via cctalk
On 3/14/2023 8:26 PM, Chris Hanson via cctalk wrote: If you posted your design as Open Source, someone else producing it isn't a knockoff, it's the system working as intended. -- Chris Yep, naive on my part.  I would counter that if I had just published my designs online with a commercial

[cctalk] Re: Knockoffs, was: Low cost logic analyzer

2023-03-14 Thread Chris Hanson via cctalk
On Mar 14, 2023, at 2:55 PM, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: > > On 3/14/2023 4:16 PM, Jonathan Chapman wrote: >> There are other things that we've chosen not to run for the same basic >> reason, and others that won't get open sourced. > > I will admit I am trending in that direction. I put thing

[cctalk] Re: Knockoffs, was: Low cost logic analyzer

2023-03-14 Thread Jim Brain via cctalk
On 3/14/2023 4:48 PM, Alexander Huemer via cctalk wrote: * The main IC in a 16 channel Saleae LA is a Xilinx Spartan 6, The clones are of the older pre 2015 Cypress FX2 design, which was not easy to protect. I don't see any eBay listings for the newer stuff in clone format.  I do see Logic8/

[cctalk] Re: Knockoffs, was: Low cost logic analyzer

2023-03-14 Thread Sytse van Slooten via cctalk
On 14 Mar 2023, at 23:23, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > > On 3/14/23 14:48, Alexander Huemer via cctalk wrote: > >> Let's face it, there is a sizable number of people who will never ever >> buy a logic analyzer for north of $1000. Either because they can't >> afford it or are too greedy. Tha

[cctalk] Re: Knockoffs, was: Low cost logic analyzer

2023-03-14 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 3/14/23 14:48, Alexander Huemer via cctalk wrote: > Let's face it, there is a sizable number of people who will never ever > buy a logic analyzer for north of $1000. Either because they can't > afford it or are too greedy. That is not lost revenue for the company. > Either those people buy

[cctalk] Re: Knockoffs, was: Low cost logic analyzer

2023-03-14 Thread Jim Brain via cctalk
On 3/14/2023 4:16 PM, Jonathan Chapman wrote: There are other things that we've chosen not to run for the same basic reason, and others that won't get open sourced. I will admit I am trending in that direction.  I put things as FLOSS because I wanted the designs to outlast my involvement with

[cctalk] Re: Knockoffs, was: Low cost logic analyzer

2023-03-14 Thread Alexander Huemer via cctalk
On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 09:16:02PM +, Jonathan Chapman via cctalk wrote: > > But, as some who worked > > to bring a product to market only to see people on forums say "Skip > > buying it from Jim for , you can build the same thing by yourself > > for $ from AliExpress parts or buy this eBay

[cctalk] Re: Knockoffs, was: Low cost logic analyzer

2023-03-14 Thread Jonathan Chapman via cctalk
> But, as some who worked > to bring a product to market only to see people on forums say "Skip > buying it from Jim for , you can build the same thing by yourself > for $ from AliExpress parts or buy this eBay knockoff for 2X$", I will > admit that is somewhat infuriating. If the hobby communi