On 06/22/2016 06:15 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
> Slightly different. A rolled out job was a file, containing the
> whole job state, including stuff like currently attached files,
> memory content, exchange package (program registers). Like any other
> "local file" it would show up in memory as an en
On 06/22/2016 06:18 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 22 Jun 2016, Chuck Guzis wrote: ...
>>> Its illegitimate relative, KRONOS, made extensive use of ECS for
>>> support of the PLATO system.
>
> Not quite. KRONOS treated ECS (rather clumsily) as a kind of disk.
> PLATO just bypassed all that
On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Michael Thompson
wrote:
>
> I looked at the backplane pictures that I took after the rescue. I assumed
> that the hex-wide 8-slot backplane in the front of the card cage was the
> original 11/40 processor backplane. On the back it says "LSI 11 BACKPLANE",
> so the
Wondering if anyone out there has such a machine running. It was
literally the first computer system I used (at Indiana State
University back in the 70's). I had some real fun doing FORTRAN and
Pascal programming on that thing.
Thanks,
Bryan
On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 8:28 PM, Michael Thompson
wrote:
> I looked at the backplane pictures that I took after the rescue. I assumed
> that the hex-wide 8-slot backplane in the front of the card cage was the
> original 11/40 processor backplane. On the back it says "LSI 11 BACKPLANE",
> so the op
On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 9:05 PM, Michael Thompson <
michael.99.thomp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The RICM just picked up a PDP-11/40 chassis that was modified to accept a
> PDP-11/23 board set. It also contains a custom board to interface the
> PDP-11/23 to the original PDP-11/40 front panel. It is qui
* On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 09:42:25AM -0700, Ian Finder
wrote:
> Well, screen rot. Why didn't you say so in the first place!
>
> The nasty substance that you came into contact with is almost certainly the
> decomposed RTV silicone leaking out.
>
> Gross stuff.
Seconded and thirded. This is exa
> Are they general purpose, no…they require specialized > programming to
> perform the computations. But the HPC > (high performance
> computing) guys will do what it takes (and have for > decades) to get
> the most out of the HW.
I have a friend that works for NSA that does just that.
On Wed, 22 Jun 2016, Toby Thain wrote:
> Do you have a counterproposal? What problem do you think UTF-8 is trying
> to solve?
Oh, heck no! I don't have any wish to wade into that particular swamp full
of alligators. I have no counterproposal and as far as "what problem is
UTF-8 trying to solve?
On 2016-06-22 9:45 PM, Swift Griggs wrote:
...
Everyone had some whack-a-doodle way to encode character sets back then
(and now it's just as bad or worse with things like UTF-8).
Do you have a counterproposal? What problem do you think UTF-8 is trying
to solve?
> People who
complain about t
On Wed, 22 Jun 2016, Rich Alderson wrote:
> We have one running at LCM, attached to an instance of dtCyber, the
> 6000/Cyber simulator, via John Zabolitzky's Xilinx-based display
> adapter. We're in the process of refurbing the one that came with the
> 6500, which we may attach to the system at
On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 11:43 AM, Rich Alderson
wrote:
> Does the scanner have a setting to do row-major vs. column-major
> scanning? I ask from experience: When I was putting Tops-10 v6.03A
> on our 1070, I had to have a fiche listing of VMSER.MAC scanned to
> PDF. As you know, DEC FS fiche sh
On Wed, 22 Jun 2016, Chuck Guzis wrote:
> You don't seem to realize how expensive these systems were to operate.
I'm sure I don't (but hey! give me credit for trying). I'm betting that
even "expensive" systems of today (barring ultra-massive HPC SSI rigs) are
cheap by comparison in inflation-ad
On 2016-06-22 10:12 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
On Jun 22, 2016, at 8:40 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
Which was the first machine to have an optical card reader (V brass roller)?
For card based data processing, such as what my father did for Office Of Civil
Rights, that speed improvement made a big diffe
>
> On Wed, 22 Jun 2016, Chuck Guzis wrote:
> ...
>> Its illegitimate relative, KRONOS, made extensive use of ECS for support
>> of the PLATO system.
Not quite. KRONOS treated ECS (rather clumsily) as a kind of disk. PLATO just
bypassed all that and managed ECS directly, as memory the way it
> On Jun 22, 2016, at 7:15 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
>
> ...
>> Could you roll them back in by just re-populating memory with the
>> dump and hooking back to whatever the equivalent of PC and EIP were
>> on that system and re-launching the job?
>
> The rolled-out job didn't lose its files or place
From: Chuck Guzis
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 5:13 PM
> On 06/22/2016 04:46 PM, Rich Alderson wrote:
>> And it's rarely an armload. Most programs fit into a deck of a few dozen
>> cards or so. If you can't wrap a rubber band around the deck, you kept it
>> in the box. (Oh, yeah, you bought
> On Jun 22, 2016, at 8:40 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
>
> Which was the first machine to have an optical card reader (V brass roller)?
>
> For card based data processing, such as what my father did for Office Of
> Civil Rights, that speed improvement made a big difference.
I'm not sure why that wo
Which was the first machine to have an optical card reader (V brass
roller)?
For card based data processing, such as what my father did for Office Of
Civil Rights, that speed improvement made a big difference.
On 2016-06-21 3:42 PM, Ian S. King wrote:
Even if you never touch an Alto (and I hope that you someday can do so!),
it's interesting to look at BCPL, an ancestor of C. I learned to read it
fairly well when I was maintaining LCM's first Alto. -- Ian
BCPL was also the language of the very firs
I have a 9-slot VME backplane for sale or trade. It weighs about 3 pounds
when packed. Pictures at
https://www.flickr.com/photos/32548582@N02/albums/72157670027920776
--
David Griffith
d...@661.org
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such
On 06/22/2016 04:46 PM, Rich Alderson wrote:
> And it's rarely an armload. Most programs fit into a deck of a few dozen
> cards or so. If you can't wrap a rubber band around the deck, you kept it
> in the box. (Oh, yeah, you bought cards in boxes of 2000. About 16" long,
> IIRC.)
Well, if you
I have access to an xyzprint Da Vinci Jr, which can't do very large
files, but I'd be able to do PLA material with it.
the model my friend has doesn't do ABS. BTW, I don't think because you
3d print it that it is low cost. If I am following the size of the
part, the printing will be pretty
> On Jun 21, 2016, at 11:07 PM, dwight wrote:
>
> Well Ben
>
> I'll tell you a secret. I work for one of those two companies.
>
> Processors are designed from such code, simulated and then
>
> synthesized to silicon gates. I don't think that is too much of a
>
> secret.
>
> How the architec
From: Swift Griggs
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 1:58 PM
On Wed, 22 Jun 2016, Chuck Guzis wrote:
>> I think Paul's covered that pretty well. I'll add that the more complex
>> the display, the more flicker was present.
> The descriptions are fascinating. I hope I can see one operating some day.
On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 5:15 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
> You don't understand. Big iron did multitasking and multiprogramming,
> but the I/O media was cards, tape and printed output. Going "online"
> was expensive and slow in terms of equipment.
There were many people who saw timesharing as a huge
I guess we are talking apples and oranges. I'm not talking
chip that can be implemented in tiny sizes. I'm talking chips of the complexity
of current Intel and AMD chips. The instruction decode and its effect are a
small
part of the overall size. The ARM64 is an example of poorly implemented RI
On 06/22/2016 01:58 PM, Swift Griggs wrote:
> Hmm, after reading the responses, I'm guessing most folks just showed
> up with an armload of punch cards and didn't bother with keying
> things on the console at the altar of the system.
You don't seem to realize how expensive these systems were to o
A listmember who is quite adept at 3d printing has agreed to give it a shot.
Did someone say they had a parts file to try out?
J
On 6/22/16 1:58 PM, Swift Griggs wrote:
> I contrast their efforts with
> folks like NASA where a lot of (amazing and super important) tech found
> it's way to the public domain.
And a lot that didn't, the NASA COSMIC software archive, in particular.
Too much money to be made with NASTRAN.
Hi Philip,
Just going through some old emails; did you find a suitable card?
m
- Original Message -
From: "Philip Lord"
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 12:16 AM
Subject: Re: WTD: S100 Static RAM card
Well, maybe I’m too cheap, but s
I don't have a 3D printer, however, I'm interested in a replica case, too.
Jurgen
Am 20.06.2016 um 15:20 schrieb martin.heppe...@dlr.de:
> Hi,
>
> I own PRM-85 boards for my HP-85 and 86 machines. While they are very useful
> extension modules for these computers, they lack a proper case. I ha
On Wed, 22 Jun 2016, Chuck Guzis wrote:
> I think Paul's covered that pretty well. I'll add that the more complex
> the display, the more flicker was present.
The descriptions are fascinating. I hope I can see one operating some day.
Do you know of any still operational ?
> >> Much of the archi
> From: Brian Walenz
>> Werner Buchholz (editor), "Planning a Computer System: Project
>> Stretch", McGraw-Hill, New York, 1962
> http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/IBM-7030-Planning-McJones.pdf
Yeah, I found that _after_ I sent the email, sigh...
>> Speaking of books, there's a
> On Jun 22, 2016, at 12:31 , shad wrote:
>
> Hello Mark,
> when you are ready with your machine up and running,
> you could try to use on a real Nova 3 the tool I wrote to raw read/write
> disks and tapes through the serial port.
> You just need a PC (linux preferred) and Python installed
> On Jun 22, 2016, at 12:29 , Jay West wrote:
>
> Mark wrote...
> =
> Additional documentation is flowing in behind the schematic courtesy of that
> little birdie who all of us DG collectors know and love
> =
>
> Here Birdie Birdie (throwing sunflower seeds on the ground)
LOL! I as
> From: Al Kossow aek at bitsavers.org
> which one?
> 1974_Field_Service_Technical_Manual_Dec74.pdf
> is already on line under handbooks
Dat be de one. Alas for the OP, it doesn't seem to contain any PDP-11 stuff
(well, a bit on the RK11-C, etc, but nothing on any processor, at l
Maybe a year ago I got two metal 3 shelf library carts on wheels, to hold
the manuals that were related to whatever machine I was working on at the
time. Its extremely useful to have all the manuals at hand on a rolling
stand when you're moving around working on the beast. I have not seen any
for s
Hello Mark,
when you are ready with your machine up and running,
you could try to use on a real Nova 3 the tool I wrote to raw read/write
disks and tapes through the serial port.
You just need a PC (linux preferred) and Python installed (plus serial
port module).
Then you should be able to dum
Mark wrote...
=
Additional documentation is flowing in behind the schematic courtesy of that
little birdie who all of us DG collectors know and love
=
Here Birdie Birdie (throwing sunflower seeds on the ground)
J
> (one tip: I used a silicone-based double-stick gel-like "tape" to
> remount the implosion protector (with an air gap) because the naked
> CRT didn't fit the VT220 housing well enough to make me happy - I'd
> approach the VR201 restoration with the same expectation).
As far as I know, the front
>
>
> > >
> > > If it does come from inside, just about the only thing it can be is
> > > electrolyte from one of the capacitors. I'd remove the case [1] and
> > > have a look.
> > > Possibly
> > > wearing gloves...
> > >
>
>
> Nasty! I have a couple of working VR201s that I want to check for
> imp
On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 10:49 AM, william degnan wrote:
> I picked up a DEC VR201 display today, it was leaking a highly corrosive
> brown liquid. So corrosive it burned my skin painfully / immediately and
> I had to wash hands thoroughly. Anyone come across a display that leaked a
> corrosive
> -Original Message-
> From: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of william
> degnan
> Sent: 22 June 2016 16:42
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: Leaking DEC VR201 monochrome monitor?
>
> On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 11:10 AM, tony duell
> wrote:
>
Well, screen rot. Why didn't you say so in the first place!
The nasty substance that you came into contact with is almost certainly the
decomposed RTV silicone leaking out.
Gross stuff.
On Wednesday, June 22, 2016, william degnan wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 11:10 AM, tony duell >
> wrote
Yes. It's the PVA compound leaking out of the picture tube, from
between the faceplate and the tube itself. I see this on lots of
terminals and monitors. You need to remove the picture tube, heat the
faceplate and separate it from the tube, and clean up all the brown
goop, and put everything back t
On Wed, 22 Jun 2016, william degnan wrote:
> I picked up a DEC VR201 display today, it was leaking a highly corrosive
> brown liquid. So corrosive it burned my skin painfully / immediately
> and I had to wash hands thoroughly.
PH test it, if you can. If it's caustic, then I'd suspect condensate
I picked up a DEC VR201 display today, it was leaking a highly corrosive
brown liquid. So corrosive it burned my skin painfully / immediately and
I had to wash hands thoroughly. Anyone come across a display that leaked a
corrosive liquid like that? The display was stored in its original box, so
On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 11:10 AM, tony duell
wrote:
> > I picked up a DEC VR201 display today, it was leaking a highly corrosive
> > brown liquid. So corrosive it burned my skin painfully / immediately
> and
>
> Ouch, in more ways than one. If it attacks your skin like that, I wonder
> what
> i
> I picked up a DEC VR201 display today, it was leaking a highly corrosive
> brown liquid. So corrosive it burned my skin painfully / immediately and
Ouch, in more ways than one. If it attacks your skin like that, I wonder what
it has done to the insides of the monitor.
> I had to wash hands th
> On Jun 22, 2016, at 10:49 AM, william degnan wrote:
>
> I picked up a DEC VR201 display today, it was leaking a highly corrosive
> brown liquid. So corrosive it burned my skin painfully / immediately and
> I had to wash hands thoroughly. Anyone come across a display that leaked a
> corrosiv
On 22 June 2016 at 16:49, william degnan wrote:
> I picked up a DEC VR201 display today, it was leaking a highly corrosive
> brown liquid. So corrosive it burned my skin painfully / immediately and
> I had to wash hands thoroughly. Anyone come across a display that leaked a
> corrosive liquid l
On 6/22/16 10:43 AM, Rich Alderson wrote:
> From: Al Kossow
> Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 7:42 AM
>
>> good a time as any to mention this..
>
>> I bought a step and repeat fiche scanner a couple of months ago
>> and am going to start scanning the thousands of sheet backlog I
>> have, once I
On 6/22/16 9:02 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
> I have a DEC Field Circus handbook arriving today
which one?
1974_Field_Service_Technical_Manual_Dec74.pdf
is already on line under handbooks
From: Al Kossow
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 7:42 AM
> good a time as any to mention this..
> I bought a step and repeat fiche scanner a couple of months ago
> and am going to start scanning the thousands of sheet backlog I
> have, once I get all the fiche in one place and dedup it. ECO-LOGs
>
On 06/22/2016 08:32 AM, Swift Griggs wrote:
> I was trying to find some video of one of those actually running. I wanted
> to see how the "calligraphic displays" painted the graphics. Do you happen
> to know why they went with two displays like that? Did the two have
> different purposes?
I th
>
> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 18:08:49 -0700
> From: Glen Slick
> Subject: Re: PDP-11/40 modified to be a PDP-11/23
>
> What boards exactly? Are you sure it's not an M7133 11/24 board instead?
>
> From front to back in the AB slots:
- M8186, KDF11-A, 11/23 CPU, 18-bit addressing only
- M8044-D
On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 12:01 PM, Noel Chiappa
wrote:
Werner Buchholz (editor), "Planning a Computer System: Project Stretch",
> McGraw-Hill, New York, 1962
>
http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/IBM-7030-Planning-McJones.pdf
> Speaking of books, there's also a CDC 6600 book:
>
> Jim E.
Thanks a lot, folks!
And of course, thanks so much Al for bitsavers -- the DEC archives
there, for me at least, have made this whole hobby possible!
I have an early (serial 152) 11/45 that I've been restoring. Just now
to the point in CPU debug where I can reliably toggle in and run simple
> On Jun 22, 2016, at 08:55, William Donzelli wrote:
>
>> I'm feeling so happy that I think I'll buy my dogs a cheeseburger at
>> In-N-Out on the way home tonight to celebrate.
>
> Just one? Or do you want a dog fight?
Little dog gets 1/3, and bigger dog gets 2/3. That's the In-N-Out prescrib
> On Jun 22, 2016, at 9:15 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>
>> From: Dwight Kelvey
>
>> The RIS[C]/CISC is really not even relevant in todays processors since
>> the main limiting factor is memory access bandwidth and effective use
>> of caches.
>
> Memory bandwidth has often been the limiting factor
> From: Fritz Mueller fritzm at fritzm.org
> Are DEC ECO's available online anywhere? ... I am particularly
> interested in ECO's related to the KB11-A (11/45).
I have a DEC Field Circus handbook arriving today that allegedly contains
some ECO information; if there's anything on the
> From: Swift Griggs
>> Much of the architectural concept was shared with IBM 7030 STRETCH
>> (another system worth researching).
> Hmm, I've never heard of it. I'll check it out.
The first supercomputer, IMO. It's an interesting machine, with a variety of
innovations that later
> I'm feeling so happy that I think I'll buy my dogs a cheeseburger at In-N-Out
> on the way home tonight to celebrate.
Just one? Or do you want a dog fight?
--
Will
> On Jun 22, 2016, at 11:32 AM, Swift Griggs wrote:
>
> On Tue, 21 Jun 2016, Chuck Guzis wrote:
>>> - It had some wicked cool "demos", to cop a C64 term. (ADC, PAC, EYE)
>> Those were mostly toys to amuse the CEs, like the baseball game BAT.
>
> I was trying to find some video of one of those a
On Tue, 21 Jun 2016, Chuck Guzis wrote:
> > - It had some wicked cool "demos", to cop a C64 term. (ADC, PAC, EYE)
> Those were mostly toys to amuse the CEs, like the baseball game BAT.
I was trying to find some video of one of those actually running. I wanted
to see how the "calligraphic displays
> On Jun 22, 2016, at 08:07, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>
>> From: Mark J. Blair
>
>> An interface card schematic has appeared in my inbox as if by magic.
>
> If that allows you to create a list of what various 8000-series chips do (or
> if you've since located one), that would be a good thing to hav
> From: Mark J. Blair
> An interface card schematic has appeared in my inbox as if by magic.
If that allows you to create a list of what various 8000-series chips do (or
if you've since located one), that would be a good thing to have available
online. If you have (or create) one, we can
> On Jun 22, 2016, at 07:23, Todd Killingsworth
> wrote:
>
> I'm set up to go onsite this afternoon, and I've got new SD cards and two
> batteries for the camera. Once I've figured out a good place to post them,
> I'll pass the link along. I think this is more of a corporate/enterprise
> col
> On Jun 22, 2016, at 07:42, Al Kossow wrote:
>
> good a time as any to mention this..
>
> I bought a step and repeat fiche scanner a couple of months ago
> and am going to start scanning the thousands of sheet backlog I
> have, once I get all the fiche in one place and dedup it. ECO-LOGs
> are
Update! An interface card schematic has appeared in my inbox as if by magic.
That changes this task from "breaking the enemy cipher" to plain ol' logic
debugging. Woohoo!
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X
http://www.nf6x.net/
good a time as any to mention this..
I bought a step and repeat fiche scanner a couple of months ago
and am going to start scanning the thousands of sheet backlog I
have, once I get all the fiche in one place and dedup it. ECO-LOGs
are definitely in there (have several DEC PDP-xx 'blue boxes')
O
On Tue, 21 Jun 2016, Rich Alderson wrote:
> > - It used odd sized (by todays standards) register, instruction, and bus
> > sizes. 60 bit machine with 15/30 bit instructions. But, didn't it cause
> > a bunch of alignment issues for you ?
> ??? Alignment issues? Care to define this? Are you
I'm set up to go onsite this afternoon, and I've got new SD cards and two
batteries for the camera. Once I've figured out a good place to post them,
I'll pass the link along. I think this is more of a corporate/enterprise
collection so I'm not expecting SGI - but he's got a lot of stuff.
You ne
+1 You tell em Will!
-Connor K
On Jun 21, 2016 4:05 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
>
> > I have sent Todd his contact info. He is willing to let one person come in
> > and take pics and post to the group. He does NOT want to move one or 2
> > items of the most value; he wants to move out pallets
> From: Dwight Kelvey
> The RIS[C]/CISC is really not even relevant in todays processors since
> the main limiting factor is memory access bandwidth and effective use
> of caches.
Memory bandwidth has often been the limiting factor over the complete
timeline of CPU's/systems. (It
Field service used to get them on micro fiche. I might have some here
somewhere, but it may take a while to look.
Newer print sets could have info on the older ones.
Paul
On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Fritz Mueller wrote:
> Are DEC ECO's available online anywhere? I have not seem them in t
The testing that I've been doing so far to get the 6045 hard drive working on
my Nova 3 suggests that the interface card receives commands over the IO
channel (i.e., I can command seeks and get the expected clunking sounds from
the drive). But the interface card does not appear to be responding
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