Re: [ccp4bb] Quantifying electron density inside of a given volume

2022-08-26 Thread Tim Gruene
Dear Neno, when I asked the same question a few months ago, I ended up writing my own program. We used it for our study of coking in the zeolite ZSM5 (https://doi.org/10.1002/anie.202205413). It is not at all user friendly, and it reads in FCF files, rather than MTZ files. I can send you the sourc

Re: [ccp4bb] Quantifying electron density inside of a given volume

2022-08-25 Thread James Holton
Hey Pavel, Thank you for your thoughtful comments and excellent references.  I also just realized I made a mistake in an earlier message.  When you "integrate" a map using its average value you want to multiply by the volume of the asymmetric unit, not the volume of the unit cell. If you mult

Re: [ccp4bb] Quantifying electron density inside of a given volume

2022-08-22 Thread Pavel Afonine
Hi James, - Where exactly inside the blob of density do you place these dummy atoms? > > Where? At the peaks. > Peaks? This means you need to have atomic resolution data and also blobs representing ordered atoms, so you actually have peaks! > What I usually do is pick peaks, put atoms at the hi

Re: [ccp4bb] Quantifying electron density inside of a given volume

2022-08-16 Thread James Holton
Thank you Pavel, responses inline below.  There are indeed a lot of possible approaches, and my experience is far from complete, but I will share my impressions. On 8/15/2022 8:15 PM, Pavel Afonine wrote: Hi James, I like your approach with dummy atoms and occupancy refinement. Dealing with

Re: [ccp4bb] Quantifying electron density inside of a given volume

2022-08-15 Thread Jessica Bruhn
Hi all, There are lots of great suggestions in this thread. I will just add a little trick from small molecule crystallography: when trying to estimate how many atoms can fit in a given volume, you can use the Rule of 18. Take the volume of interest in Angstroms^3 and divide it by 18 Angstroms^3.

Re: [ccp4bb] Quantifying electron density inside of a given volume

2022-08-15 Thread Pavel Afonine
Hi James, I like your approach with dummy atoms and occupancy refinement. Dealing with actual maps sounds like hell to me indeed (especially given that we deal with weighted Fourier maps!). Reading this as someone who immediately translates this into a computer code (in my mind), a few things that

Re: [ccp4bb] Quantifying electron density inside of a given volume

2022-08-15 Thread James Holton
There are several programs for integrating electron density, but please let me assure you that it is almost always the wrong thing to do. A much better strategy is occupancy refinement.  Throw in dummy atoms, turn off non-bonded interactions to them, and refine their occupancy until it a) stop

Re: [ccp4bb] Quantifying electron density inside of a given volume

2022-08-11 Thread Ian Tickle
Hi Neno I think you mean the total number of electrons in the volume, i.e. the volume integral of the electron density, or perhaps you mean the average electron density, i.e. the total number of electrons in the volume divided by the volume. Cheers -- Ian On Wed, 10 Aug 2022, 15:00 Neno Vuksa

Re: [ccp4bb] Quantifying electron density inside of a given volume

2022-08-11 Thread Julia Griese
: Neno Vuksanovic Date: Wednesday, 10 August 2022 at 16:00 To: "CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK" Subject: [ccp4bb] Quantifying electron density inside of a given volume Dear All, I would like to quantify electron density inside of positive Fo-Fc blobs in active sites of multiple protomers in t

[ccp4bb] Quantifying electron density inside of a given volume

2022-08-10 Thread Neno Vuksanovic
Dear All, I would like to quantify electron density inside of positive Fo-Fc blobs in active sites of multiple protomers in the map and compare them. I am aware that I can interpolate maps and obtain density values at coordinate points using either MapMan, Chimera or Coot, but I would like to kno