Re: [ccp4bb] Help request: Failed MR using the same molecule as model

2009-11-26 Thread Eleanor Dodson
I think you have a found a supercell and dont really need to run any MR program to find the solution - just reposition the molecule Your P422 point group cell is 126.514 126.514 76.766 90.00 90.00 90.00 Your I422 point group cellis: 180.096 180.096 152.530 90.00 90.00 90.00 Note c

Re: [ccp4bb] Help request: Failed MR using the same molecule as model

2009-11-25 Thread Jon Schuermann
Actually, another thing could be going on as well. You show a large off-origin peak in the Patterson in I422 so you may have pseudotranslation going on and you processed in the supercell. You could probably try to reindex choosing fewer spots and get your P422 cell. I am sure there is some law

Re: [ccp4bb] Help request: Failed MR using the same molecule as model

2009-11-25 Thread Jon Schuermann
To complicate things some more, a couple of things could be going on. 1. You could have pseudosymmetry, where you true SG is I4 and the additional NCS operators make the crystal look I422. 2. You could have twinning. If merohedral, could be I4. If pseudomerohedral, could be any of the subgrou

Re: [ccp4bb] Help request: Failed MR using the same molecule as model

2009-11-25 Thread mjvanraaij
also try MOLREP (CCP4i) - we had a case where AMORE and PHASER did not work (in our hands), but MOLREP did, using the internal MOLREP sequence alignment/unequal amino acid trimming feature. This was a case of a P1 cell with 12 copies of the same molecule, 2.3A resolution, not very high-qualit

Re: [ccp4bb] Help request: Failed MR using the same molecule as model

2009-11-25 Thread Roger Rowlett
I would also try Open-EPMR as well as Phaser. It can sometimes find solutions that Phaser or Amore cannot, especially for multiple chains and low resolution. EPMR is especially good at handling high copy numbers of search models. Cheers. Pete Meyer wrote: A few things to try (or double-check

Re: [ccp4bb] Help request: Failed MR using the same molecule as model

2009-11-25 Thread Pete Meyer
A few things to try (or double-check): 1. If you ran phaser with SGALTERNATIVE ALL, make sure the mtz file you gave to refmac has the same screw axes as the MR solution. If this is off, it'll lead to higher R-factors. 2. As Fred mentioned, try with a single copy of the protein, and check th

Re: [ccp4bb] Help request: Failed MR using the same molecule as model

2009-11-24 Thread Frederic VELLIEUX
Hi there, 2 things: Are you sure that the relative orientations of your components are the same in the different crystal forms? If you haven't done it already, it would be worth while trying to search for the individual components as well (could be difficult because your components are not so

[ccp4bb] Help request: Failed MR using the same molecule as model

2009-11-24 Thread Chao Quan
Dear CCP4 community: Sorry if there is a duplicate post. I am a beginner to crystallography and therefore my apologies if this question is too simple. Basically we obtained several crystal forms of the same molecule, which is a hetero- trimer containing protein A(18kD), protein B(16kD) and a R

[ccp4bb] Help request: Failed MR using the same molecule as model

2009-11-24 Thread Chao Quan
Dear CCP4 community: I am a beginner to crystallography and therefore my apologies if this question is too simple. Basically we obtained several crystal forms of the same molecule, which is a hetero- trimer containing protein A(18kD), protein B(16kD) and a RNA segment(40nt or about 15kD). W