Re: [ccp4bb] Fwd: [ccp4bb] Wyckoff positions and protein atoms

2010-12-10 Thread Pavel Afonine
> > No disorder is involved. > > > > The occupancy of an (fully occupied) atom on an n-fold rotation axis is > 1/n > > If a two-fold, 1/2 > > If a three-fold, 1/3 > > > > When you sum over all the atoms in the unit cell, application of the > symmetry operations to atoms lying on the rotation axis g

Re: [ccp4bb] Fwd: [ccp4bb] Wyckoff positions and protein atoms

2010-12-10 Thread George M. Sheldrick
SHELXL also expects that the occupancy of a fully occupied atom on a threefold axis should be set at 1/3, and will generate this automatically if necessary. It will also generate automatically the necessary constraints for the x, y and z parameters (and for the Uij if the atom is anisotropic). I

Re: [ccp4bb] Fwd: [ccp4bb] Wyckoff positions and protein atoms

2010-12-10 Thread Boaz Shaanan
An excerpt from the Shelx manual (which I think is a good reference for proper handling of atoms on special positions in refinement of small or large molecules): 4.3 Special position constraints Constraints for the coordinates and anisotropic displacement parameters for atoms on special positi

Re: [ccp4bb] Fwd: [ccp4bb] Wyckoff positions and protein atoms

2010-12-10 Thread Ed Pozharski
On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 22:40 +, Ian Tickle wrote: > Application of a symmetry operator to > a point on a special position which is unchanged by the operator > doesn't generate a symmetry copy of the point, because there is no > symmetry copy of such a point! Why not? Symmetry-related copy may

Re: [ccp4bb] Fwd: [ccp4bb] Wyckoff positions and protein atoms

2010-12-10 Thread Ed Pozharski
On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 21:53 +, Ian Tickle wrote: > Hmmm - but shouldn't the occupancy of the Zn be 1.00 if it's on the > special position Shouldn't 1/3 be better for programming purposes? If you set occupancy to 1.0, then you should specify that symmetry operators do not apply for these atom

Re: [ccp4bb] Fwd: [ccp4bb] Wyckoff positions and protein atoms

2010-12-10 Thread Ian Tickle
No that surely can't be right. Application of a symmetry operator to a point on a special position which is unchanged by the operator doesn't generate a symmetry copy of the point, because there is no symmetry copy of such a point! For general Wyckoff positions it does, for sure. If you look at

Re: [ccp4bb] Fwd: [ccp4bb] Wyckoff positions and protein atoms

2010-12-10 Thread Dale Tronrud
The proper occupancy for an atom on a special position depends on how one defines the meaning of the number in that column. In the past, refinement programs, at least I know mine did, simply expanded all atoms in the coordinate file by the symmetry operators to determine the contents of the uni

Re: [ccp4bb] Fwd: [ccp4bb] Wyckoff positions and protein atoms

2010-12-10 Thread Ian Tickle
Good point Colin! 2-Zn insulin is of course a classic example of this, where the two independent Zn2+ ions both sit on the crystallographic 3-fold in R3. It doesn't matter whether you count the metal ion as part of the protein or not: if I understand Gloria's original question correctly, all that

Re: [ccp4bb] Space group vs. gap between Rwork and Rfree?

2010-12-10 Thread Ed Pozharski
On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 19:32 +0100, Petr Kolenko wrote: > But now I have very low RMSDs. And then you read in this > forum quite often, that we should refine against the data and not > against the restraints. :) Well, at 3.6A you must have low rmsds. And at 3.6A you don't really have any data to

Re: [ccp4bb] Space group vs. gap between Rwork and Rfree?

2010-12-10 Thread Petr Kolenko
Hi, Some of you were right, I did not try to modify weights. Previous weight was 0.03 (assigned automatically), actual is 0.01 and Rwork vs Rfree is about 0.25 and 0.33, so 8% of difference - hopefully acceptable. But now I have very low RMSDs. And then you read in this forum quite often, that we

Re: [ccp4bb] A script is needed to renumber image

2010-12-10 Thread Ben Eisenbraun
Hi Ed, > does this assume that the current folder contains only the files to be > renamed? Indeed it does. I was aiming to show that for simple tasks like this, a modern shell makes things easy enough that scripts become overkill. > Also, how does one add padding zeros? You can just add in a

Re: [ccp4bb] Space group vs. gap between Rwork and Rfree?

2010-12-10 Thread Lijun Liu
Hi, At this resolution, such a difference in Rs could be an indicator that the structure is over--fitted. What weight did you choose? Lijun On Dec 10, 2010, at 3:17 AM, Petr Kolenko wrote: Dear colleagues, I appreciate any help, or any suggestion with my difficult data. Many thanks at lea

Re: [ccp4bb] Fwd: [ccp4bb] Wyckoff positions and protein atoms

2010-12-10 Thread Edward A. Berry
Colin Nave wrote: .. Also Acta Cryst. (2002). D58, 29-38 "The 2.6 Å resolution structure of Rhodobacter capsulatus bacterioferritin with metal-free dinuclear site and heme iron in a crystallographic `special position' "D. Cobessi, L.-S. Huang, M. Ban, N. G. Pon, F. Daldal and E. A. Berry ( h

Re: [ccp4bb] how to reduce Rfactor & R free

2010-12-10 Thread Bosch, Juergen
The other question is, you say it's 3.3Å, by which criteria ? Xtriage might report a 4Å dataset if you take I/sigI >3 and 85% completeness It might also make a difference which data reduction program you used. [/Advertisement on]XDS/XSCALE or d*Trek[/Advertisement off] might squeeze a bit more our

Re: [ccp4bb] A script is needed to renumber image

2010-12-10 Thread Ed Pozharski
Ben, does this assume that the current folder contains only the files to be renamed? Also, how does one add padding zeros? While Donghui didn't need zero padding, my one liner can be easily corrected to do this in the same way Ian's is, by replacing %d with %0nd, where n is the total number of

Re: [ccp4bb] A script is needed to renumber image

2010-12-10 Thread Ed Pozharski
Assuming that your files are named something_.img what follows must be one line): echo | awk '{for(i=361;i<721;i++) printf "mv something_%d.img something_ %d.img\n",i+720,i;}' | bash -sf I'd try first without piping it to bash just to make sure that it works right. On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 09:5

Re: [ccp4bb] how to reduce Rfactor & R free

2010-12-10 Thread Ed Pozharski
Jack (?), On Thu, 2010-12-09 at 21:35 -0800, Jack Russel wrote: > So is it now the time to stop further refining the solution . R-values are not the only criteria for this. You should be looking for a) lack of unexplained density b) good geometry c) acceptable R-values This http://xray.bmc.uu.

Re: [ccp4bb] brute force MR

2010-12-10 Thread Ian Stokes-Rees
For anyone who is interested, I meant to include a reference to the PNAS paper that has just come out (web-only early release) describing the wide search MR strategy we've developed: Stokes-Rees, Sliz Protein structure determination by exhaustive search of Protein Data Bank derived databases Pr

Re: [ccp4bb] brute force MR

2010-12-10 Thread Ian Stokes-Rees
Arnon, We have developed an MR search mechanism which may be helpful in this scenario. It is web accessible and available to any public or academic researchers: https://portal.nebiogrid.org/secure/apps/wsmr/ It can use up to the full set of SCOP domains (100k) to attempt a Phaser MR placement

Re: [ccp4bb] Space group vs. gap between Rwork and Rfree?

2010-12-10 Thread Herman . Schreuder
Dear Petr, An Rfree of 33% does happen, especially at low resolution. However my experience is that with such high Rfrees there usually is some problem. The problem might be disorder in the protein or the crystal. In this case there is not much you can do. However, before giving up, I would at

Re: [ccp4bb] Fwd: [ccp4bb] Wyckoff positions and protein atoms

2010-12-10 Thread Colin Nave
Does one regard the metal atom in a metalloprotein as being part of the protein? If so, a shared metal could occupy a special position in a dimer for example. In Acta Cryst. (2008). D64, 257-263 "Metals in proteins: correlation between the metal-ion type, coordination number and the amino-acid

Re: [ccp4bb] Space group vs. gap between Rwork and Rfree?

2010-12-10 Thread Petr Kolenko
Some refinement of my question: I am working on mutant variant (point mutation, not on the interface) of one protein already deposited in space group I432. Screw axes are excluded, NCS operator is equivalent to missing symmetry operation. To Fred, I always process data in P1 first. After that and

Re: [ccp4bb] Space group vs. gap between Rwork and Rfree?

2010-12-10 Thread Vellieux Frederic
Hi Petr, Usually IDXREF suggests more than one Bravais lattice that is consistent with your diffraction images; hence it is (sometimes) worthwhile trying to INTEGRATE in all possible Bravais lattices and this allows you to eliminate a number of possibilities (poor profiles during integration,

Re: [ccp4bb] A script is needed to renumber image

2010-12-10 Thread Ian Tickle
Quickie 1-liners are also possible in Perl, and it's a lot more flexible than awk to boot: perl -e 'for(<*>) {rename $_,$1.($2-720).$3 if /(.+?)(\d+)(.img)$/}' This (as well as I suspect some of the shell scripts posted) would fail if you had asked to rename to the range 001..360 since the leadin

Re: [ccp4bb] Space group vs. gap between Rwork and Rfree?

2010-12-10 Thread Phil Evans
Can you exclude space groups with screw axes (I4132, I213)? It's worth trying molecular replacement in all possible space groups to check, or try the York Zanuda server (http://www.ysbl.york.ac.uk/YSBLPrograms/index.jsp) Phil On 10 Dec 2010, at 11:17, Petr Kolenko wrote: > Dear colleagues, >

Re: [ccp4bb] Structure containing nickel ions from Ni-NTA column

2010-12-10 Thread David Veesler
Hi Kristof, depending on what you termed "specific sites" the answer is definitely yes. I experienced such a case in the following reference related to the AcrB structure but I remember that this situation arose also in the case of the LTC4 structure. -There is a baby in the bath water: Ac

[ccp4bb] Space group vs. gap between Rwork and Rfree?

2010-12-10 Thread Petr Kolenko
Dear colleagues, I appreciate any help, or any suggestion with my difficult data. Many thanks at least for consideration. I work with datasets at 3.6AA of resolution. Integrated with XDS, scaled with SCALA. After integration and scaling in P1, POINTLESS suggested space group I432: Space group con

[ccp4bb] Structure containing nickel ions from Ni-NTA column

2010-12-10 Thread Kristof Van Hecke
Dear, I was wondering if anybody has experienced before the leakage of Ni- ions (from a Ni-NTA column) and additionally binding to specific sites in the protein structure..? Many thanks Regards Kristof -- Kristof Van Hecke, PhD Biomoleculaire Architectu

Re: [ccp4bb] Fwd: [ccp4bb] Wyckoff positions and protein atoms

2010-12-10 Thread Herman . Schreuder
Dear Ian, what I see are two minima, symmetrically aranged around the special position. One minimum is closer the molecule A, the other closer to the symmetry-related molecule B and waters will randomly be either in minimum A, or in minimum B. Crystal packing prevents the water from moving the p