Re: Files from gnulib

> Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 13:36:16 +0200 > From: Bastien ROUCARIES > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-de...@gnu.org, egg...@cs.ucla.edu, > bug-gnulib@gnu.org, monn...@iro.umontreal.ca > > [sorry for retrieving this old thread] I suggest to let the sleeping dogs lie.

Re: Files from gnulib

[sorry for retrieving this old thread] On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Jim Meyering wrote: > Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>> From: Bastien ROUCARIES >>> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 23:37:08 +0100 >>> >>> (if and only if doslfn is buggy, and it does not seems according to >>> a quick search). >> >> Your sear

Re: Files from gnulib

On 01/27/2011 02:54 AM, Simon Josefsson wrote: > my impression is that gnulib has always been agreesive about > abandoning support for platforms that are not commercially supported > and that we can't access and test patches on. I'm not sure what "aggressive" means, but the general rule is that w

Re: Files from gnulib

Andy Moreton writes: > On Wed 26 Jan 2011, Bastien ROUCARIES wrote: > >> Therefore since 2001 (creation of doslfn), 8.3 name problem should not >> exist. >> >> Instead of tackling the main problem lack of 8.3 support and use the >> new api, you are stick in the 90's. > > It seems odd to me that t

Re: Files from gnulib

On 01/25/2011 08:10 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > It's done by the ARI script. All I know about the errors is that some > files still clash. I looked into that, and the ARI script itself doesn't know anything about 8+3 file names, so some other pro

Re: RE : Re: Files from gnulib

Stefan Monnier writes: >> When we removed support for a lot of old systems 3 years ago MSDOS was >> on the list of systems to be removed, nobody claimed to still use >> Emacs on that platform. >> Since then, there was a single user that said that he still used it. > > MS-DOS nowadays is a pretty

Re: Files from gnulib

> From: Bastien ROUCARIES > Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 16:31:04 +0100 > Cc: Andy Moreton , emacs-de...@gnu.org > > DJGPP need dpmi adding a prerequist of doslfn is not so hard in > order to compile (not run) emacs. Not true. Once we allow any clashes of file names anywhere in Emacs, soon enough we

Re: Files from gnulib

> From: Bastien ROUCARIES > Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 16:57:10 +0100 > Cc: j...@meyering.net, > emacs-de...@gnu.org, > egg...@cs.ucla.edu, > bug-gnulib@gnu.org, > monn...@iro.umontreal.ca > > why not supply a doslfn module (fixed) in djgpp ? Because DJGPP has seen its last release 8.5 years ag

Re: Files from gnulib

Bastien ROUCARIES writes: >> It seems odd to me that the developers of a GNU library fight so >> hard to avoid their code being portable. The gnulib manual [1] says: > > 8.3 limitation is really of another age, and could be lifted on dos is > doslfn is fixed. DJGPP need dpmi adding a prerequist of

Re: RE : Re: Files from gnulib

> When we removed support for a lot of old systems 3 years ago MSDOS was > on the list of systems to be removed, nobody claimed to still use > Emacs on that platform. > Since then, there was a single user that said that he still used it. MS-DOS nowadays is a pretty special niche, so I'm not surpri

Re: Files from gnulib

> Here's a compromise that at least I can live with; hope others can, too: > 1) For c++defs.h and the lib/*.in.h files: rely on the automatic > renaming by djtar. Files that reference those will be edited by > config.bat as part of configuring Emacs for the MS-DOS build. > 2) For the 3

Re: Files from gnulib

> From: Bastien ROUCARIES > Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 16:26:05 +0100 > Cc: j...@meyering.net, > emacs-de...@gnu.org, > egg...@cs.ucla.edu, > bug-gnulib@gnu.org, > monn...@iro.umontreal.ca > > And do not talk about bare metal. DPMI is not bare metal dos*. Yes, it is, because DJGPP includes a DPM

Re: Files from gnulib

Le mercredi 26 janvier 2011 16:46:29, Eli Zaretskii a écrit : > > From: Bastien ROUCARIES > > Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 16:26:05 +0100 > > Cc: j...@meyering.net, > > > > emacs-de...@gnu.org, > > egg...@cs.ucla.edu, > > bug-gnulib@gnu.org, > > monn...@iro.umontreal.ca > > > > And do not talk abo

Re: Files from gnulib

Le mercredi 26 janvier 2011 14:48:18, Eli Zaretskii a écrit : > > "The DJGPP library features transparent and automatic support for long > > file names on Windows 9X(1) The DJGPP startup code queries the system > > for the availability of the LFN API, and if it's available, all > > low-level file-o

Re: Files from gnulib

Le mercredi 26 janvier 2011 15:35:52, Andy Moreton a écrit : > On Wed 26 Jan 2011, Bastien ROUCARIES wrote: > > Therefore since 2001 (creation of doslfn), 8.3 name problem should not > > exist. > > > > Instead of tackling the main problem lack of 8.3 support and use the > > new api, you are stick

Proposed gnulib renames [was: Files from gnulib]

[intentionally breaking threading and retitling this, to try and make it easier to see replies to just this aspect of the thread] On 01/25/2011 11:01 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Here's a compromise that at least I can live with; hope others can, > too: > > 1) For c++defs.h and the lib/*.in.h file

Re: Files from gnulib

On Wed 26 Jan 2011, Bastien ROUCARIES wrote: > Therefore since 2001 (creation of doslfn), 8.3 name problem should not > exist. > > Instead of tackling the main problem lack of 8.3 support and use the > new api, you are stick in the 90's. It seems odd to me that the developers of a GNU library fig

Re: RE : Re: Files from gnulib

Miles Bader writes: > Leo writes: >>> Forcing current and future emacs development into the archaic 8.3 mold has >>> a significant cost (just look at how long this thread is), yet provides >>> relatively little benefit. >> >> I also think it is insane, the 8+3 thing. It is a huge burden evidence

Re: Files from gnulib

On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Jim Meyering wrote: > > However, you might not have to do even that. At the moment it is not even possible to build on w32. Could we please fix this first? I do not know very much about the topic discussed here, but from my experience things often does not work a

Re: Files from gnulib

> From: Andreas Schwab > Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 14:24:03 +0100 > Cc: c...@stupidchicken.com, egg...@cs.ucla.edu, bug-gnulib@gnu.org, > monn...@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-de...@gnu.org > > Since when does Emacs run on bare metal? On plain DOS? since 1994. Anyway, the DJGPP project supports al

Re: Files from gnulib

> From: Bastien ROUCARIES > Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 14:33:54 +0100 > Cc: Jim Meyering , > emacs-de...@gnu.org, > egg...@cs.ucla.edu, > bug-gnulib@gnu.org, > monn...@iro.umontreal.ca > > according to http://www.delorie.com/djgpp/doc/kb/kb_10.html > "The DJGPP library features transparent and au

Re: Files from gnulib

Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Jim Meyering >> Cc: egg...@cs.ucla.edu, c...@stupidchicken.com, bug-gnulib@gnu.org, >> monn...@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-de...@gnu.org >> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 14:23:51 +0100 >> >> There would be a rule (always run at least by "make dist") that would >> update config.b

Re: Files from gnulib

> From: Jim Meyering > Cc: egg...@cs.ucla.edu, c...@stupidchicken.com, bug-gnulib@gnu.org, > monn...@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-de...@gnu.org > Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 14:23:51 +0100 > > There would be a rule (always run at least by "make dist") that would > update config.bat. You could conceiv

Re: Files from gnulib

> > Considering your wish to continue supporting emacs on DOS, > > I would have thought you would jump at a possible solution like this. > > The solution would need to be rock solid, for me to jump at it. DJGPP > is very stable on plain DOS, and its users expect stability. > > > http://www-u

Re: Files from gnulib

> From: Lennart Borgman > Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 14:29:31 +0100 > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , c...@stupidchicken.com, egg...@cs.ucla.edu, > bug-gnulib@gnu.org, monn...@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-de...@gnu.org > > At the moment it is not even possible to build on w32. Could we please > fix this first?

Re: RE : Re: Files from gnulib

> From: Jim Meyering > Cc: sdl@gmail.com, roucaries.bast...@gmail.com, egg...@cs.ucla.edu, > bug-gnulib@gnu.org, monn...@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-de...@gnu.org > Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 14:09:39 +0100 > > Taking well-intended technical suggestions as a personal attack It cannot be anythi

Re: Files from gnulib

Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Andreas Schwab >> Cc: Paul Eggert , c...@stupidchicken.com, >> bug-gnulib@gnu.org, monn...@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-de...@gnu.org >> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 13:27:09 +0100 >> >> There is also DOSBox which should obviate the need to use a separate DOS >> machine

Re: Files from gnulib

Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Jim Meyering >> >> It is easy to run 'find' as part of the process that makes a >> >> distribution, and to put its output into config.bat or the >> >> equivalent, so there is no need to run 'find' under MS-DOS. >> > >> > More complications. This means, for example, t

Re: Files from gnulib

> From: Andreas Schwab > Cc: Paul Eggert , c...@stupidchicken.com, > bug-gnulib@gnu.org, monn...@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-de...@gnu.org > Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 13:27:09 +0100 > > There is also DOSBox which should obviate the need to use a separate DOS > machine. Not if you develop software

Re: Files from gnulib

> From: Bastien ROUCARIES > Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:52:33 +0100 > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , > emacs-de...@gnu.org, > egg...@cs.ucla.edu, > bug-gnulib@gnu.org, > monn...@iro.umontreal.ca > > Moreover freedos seems to use routinly doslfn. So it is a least a > little bit tested. FreeDOS has known i

Re: Files from gnulib

> From: Jim Meyering > Cc: Paul Eggert , c...@stupidchicken.com, > bug-gnulib@gnu.org, monn...@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-de...@gnu.org > Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:13:28 +0100 > > >> It is easy to run 'find' as part of the process that makes a > >> distribution, and to put its output into confi

Re: RE : Re: Files from gnulib

Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Jim Meyering ... >> Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> >> From: Leo >> ... >> >> Please don't take that personally. >> > >> > Everything is personal in this world. People who don't take things >> > personal are people you should stay away of. >> >> ?? >> On the contrary. >> Pr

Re: Files from gnulib

> From: Jim Meyering > Cc: Bastien ROUCARIES , emacs-de...@gnu.org, > egg...@cs.ucla.edu, bug-gnulib@gnu.org, monn...@iro.umontreal.ca > Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:02:47 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> From: Bastien ROUCARIES > >> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 23:37:08 +0100 > >> > >> (if and o

Re: RE : Re: Files from gnulib

> From: Jim Meyering > Cc: Leo , roucaries.bast...@gmail.com, > egg...@cs.ucla.edu, bug-gnulib@gnu.org, monn...@iro.umontreal.ca, > emacs-de...@gnu.org > Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 11:52:12 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> From: Leo > ... > >> Please don't take that personally. > > > > Eve

Re: Files from gnulib

Eli Zaretskii writes: > More complications. This means, for example, that to test an > arbitrary revision of the development tree, I will need to run > make-dist on Unix, create a tarball, copy it to a DOS machine, then > build, find problems, go back to the Unix machine, etc. There is also DOS

Re: Files from gnulib

Le mercredi 26 janvier 2011 12:52:33, Bastien ROUCARIES a écrit : > Le mercredi 26 janvier 2011 12:02:47, Jim Meyering a écrit : > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > >> From: Bastien ROUCARIES > > >> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 23:37:08 +0100 > > >> > > >> (if and only if doslfn is buggy, and it does not seem

Re: Files from gnulib

Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Paul Eggert ... >> It is easy to run 'find' as part of the process that makes a >> distribution, and to put its output into config.bat or the >> equivalent, so there is no need to run 'find' under MS-DOS. > > More complications. This means, for example, that to test

Re: Files from gnulib

Le mercredi 26 janvier 2011 12:02:47, Jim Meyering a écrit : > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> From: Bastien ROUCARIES > >> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 23:37:08 +0100 > >> > >> (if and only if doslfn is buggy, and it does not seems according to > >> a quick search). > > > > Your search was too quick. > >

Re: RE : Re: Files from gnulib

Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Leo ... >> Please don't take that personally. > > Everything is personal in this world. People who don't take things > personal are people you should stay away of. ?? On the contrary. Projects can improve/evolve more rapidly when egos don't interfere. I find that pe

Re: Files from gnulib

Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Bastien ROUCARIES >> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 23:37:08 +0100 >> >> (if and only if doslfn is buggy, and it does not seems according to >> a quick search). > > Your search was too quick. Considering your wish to continue supporting emacs on DOS, I would have thought you

Re: RE : Re: Files from gnulib

Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Do you think that's an irrelevant question? > > It wasn't irrelevant when it was asked (and answered) the first time. > When asked for the umpteenth time, it sounds like you are actually > asking something else. The answer most likely does not remain the same over time, t

Re: RE : Re: Files from gnulib

On 2011-01-26 02:48 +0800, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > You are talking about costs? How about _my_ costs -- the need to > endure these endless "why-don't-you-go-away-with-your-stupid-DOS" > discussions? Here's Miles again, asking his perennial "how many users > are there", here's Leo inventing "loads

Re: RE : Re: Files from gnulib

Miles Bader writes: > I wonder if there are actually any users [of DJGPP Emacs] ... Yes, there are; Eli gets at least one or two messages of thanks for every release. If you want a count, I'd suggest asking on the DJGPP list.

Re: RE : Re: Files from gnulib

> From: Miles Bader > Cc: Jim Meyering , roucaries.bast...@gmail.com, > egg...@cs.ucla.edu, bug-gnulib@gnu.org, monn...@iro.umontreal.ca, > emacs-de...@gnu.org > System-Type: x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu > Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 09:45:15 +0900 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > Here's Miles again,

Re: Files from gnulib

> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 06:12:55 +0200 > From: Eli Zaretskii > Cc: c...@stupidchicken.com, bug-gnulib@gnu.org, monn...@iro.umontreal.ca, > emacs-de...@gnu.org > > > I'd like to pursue the idea of renaming the files only > > on the MS-DOS platform. This approach shouldn't take > > that muc

Re: RE : Re: Files from gnulib

> From: Leo > Cc: Jim Meyering , roucaries.bast...@gmail.com, > egg...@cs.ucla.edu, bug-gnulib@gnu.org, monn...@iro.umontreal.ca, > emacs-de...@gnu.org > Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 10:42:13 +0800 > > On 2011-01-26 02:48 +0800, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > You are talking about costs? How about _m

Re: Files from gnulib

> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 17:05:28 -0800 > From: Paul Eggert > CC: Eli Zaretskii , c...@stupidchicken.com, > bug-gnulib@gnu.org, emacs-de...@gnu.org > > I'm afraid it's not as simple as merely renaming the files. > One must also change the contents of all files referring to > the renamed files,

Re: Files from gnulib

> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 16:54:16 -0800 > From: Paul Eggert > CC: c...@stupidchicken.com, bug-gnulib@gnu.org, monn...@iro.umontreal.ca, > emacs-de...@gnu.org > > On 01/25/11 13:54, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > This makes the entire unpacking procedure extremely > > complicated and thus e

Re: Files from gnulib

> From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: egg...@cs.ucla.edu, c...@stupidchicken.com, bug-gnulib@gnu.org, > emacs-de...@gnu.org > Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 17:15:37 -0500 > > > . Once the remapping is maintained by humans, it becomes unreliable. > > Why is that? Because people err and don't always pa

Re: Files from gnulib

> From: Bastien ROUCARIES > Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 23:37:08 +0100 > Cc: Jim Meyering , > egg...@cs.ucla.edu, > bug-gnulib@gnu.org, > monn...@iro.umontreal.ca, > emacs-de...@gnu.org > > (if and only if doslfn is buggy, and it does not seems according to a quick > search). Your search was too

Re: Files from gnulib

On 01/25/11 14:15, Stefan Monnier wrote: > In the mean time, please rename the files, thank you, I'm afraid it's not as simple as merely renaming the files. One must also change the contents of all files referring to the renamed files, and change Makefile.in so that when fresh copies are imported

Re: Files from gnulib

distribution. > We are talking about renaming files in the Emacs repo. Why would > gnulib developers have any say in that? Because we automatically sync files from gnulib into Emacs. What I think you are suggesting, is that we rename gnulib files, and edit their contents, after copying th

Re: RE : Re: Files from gnulib

Eli Zaretskii writes: > Here's Miles again, asking his perennial "how many users are there" Do you think that's an irrelevant question? -miles -- Liberty, n. One of imagination's most precious possessions.

Re: Files from gnulib

Le mardi 25 janvier 2011 16:33:40, Eli Zaretskii a écrit : > I think that the occasional hour or two I invest once in a few weeks > when the DOS build becomes broken and I need to fix it is well payed > by the benefits that brings to Emacs development in general, by > uncovering bugs in those rare

Re: Files from gnulib

> Based on the experience from GDB, here are the problems with this > approach: > . The remapping of file names cannot be fully automated. Once all > limits on file names are removed ("we don't want even the > slightest impediment", says Jim), sooner or later you get to the > point

Re: Files from gnulib

> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 13:24:11 -0800 > From: Paul Eggert > CC: c...@stupidchicken.com, bug-gnulib@gnu.org, monn...@iro.umontreal.ca, > emacs-de...@gnu.org > > On 01/25/11 11:02, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > To read the instructions, you need to unpack the archive first. > > That may have bee

Re: Files from gnulib

> From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: Paul Eggert , c...@stupidchicken.com, > bug-gnulib@gnu.org, emacs-de...@gnu.org > Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 16:03:16 -0500 > > - let's try and get this "djtar -n emacs-25.chg emacs-25.tgz" to work > reliably, e.g. by auto-building the emacs-25.chg file as part

Re: Files from gnulib

On 01/25/11 11:02, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > To read the instructions, you need to unpack the archive first. That may have been true years ago, when the tarballs themselves were the main way that one could find out how to do maintenance. But that long ago stopped being true for Emacs. If I wanted

Re: Files from gnulib

>> djtar -n emacs-25.chg emacs-25.tgz >> ... >> It is a bit more complex and error-prone for MS-DOS, yes. But >> it has the advantage of compartmentalizing the MS-DOS restrictions >> into the MS-DOS build instructions > Sorry, but these complications are unacceptable for me. We use > something l

Re: Files from gnulib

> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 21:00:16 +0100 > Cc: egg...@cs.ucla.edu, bug-gnulib@gnu.org, j...@meyering.net, > emacs-de...@gnu.org, monn...@iro.umontreal.ca, > roucaries.bast...@gmail.com > From: Ulrich Mueller > > > On Tue, 25 Jan 2011, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > >> > Reality chec

Re: Files from gnulib

> On Tue, 25 Jan 2011, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> > Reality check: there were many changes made in CEDET due to admission >> > into the Emacs distribution. File-name changes were only a small part >> > of them, and the changes just moved some files into subdirectories, >> > such that foo-bar.el

Re: Files from gnulib

> On Tue, 25 Jan 2011, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> For example, most files of CEDET were renamed to 8+3 some time ago, >> breaking other elisp packages (e.g. company-mode, ecb, jde, matlab, >> speechd-el) depending on them. > Reality check: there were many changes made in CEDET due to admission >

Re: Files from gnulib

> On Tue, 25 Jan 2011, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Forcing current and future emacs development into the archaic 8.3 >> mold has a significant cost > The costs are generally mine, and mine alone. Unfortunately, that is not entirely true. For example, most files of CEDET were renamed to 8+3 some

Re: Files from gnulib

> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 20:31:30 +0100 > From: Ulrich Mueller > Cc: egg...@cs.ucla.edu, bug-gnulib@gnu.org, j...@meyering.net, > emacs-de...@gnu.org, monn...@iro.umontreal.ca, > roucaries.bast...@gmail.com > > > Reality check: there were many changes made in CEDET due to admission > > int

Re: Files from gnulib

> From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , egg...@cs.ucla.edu, bug-gnulib@gnu.org, > Jim Meyering , emacs-de...@gnu.org, > roucaries.bast...@gmail.com > Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 14:04:44 -0500 > > This said, I'd be happy if we could solve the 8+3 issue differently. I will go with

Re: Files from gnulib

> For example, most files of CEDET were renamed to 8+3 some time ago, > breaking other elisp packages (e.g. company-mode, ecb, jde, matlab, > speechd-el) depending on them. Indeed the CEDET renaming was (and still is) a source of problems because there is still an "upstream" that hasn't done the s

Re: Files from gnulib

> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 10:07:45 -0800 > From: Paul Eggert > CC: monn...@iro.umontreal.ca, bug-gnulib@gnu.org, emacs-de...@gnu.org > > We already provide instructions for people who want to build Emacs > on MS-DOS platforms. Our instructions can be expanded slightly > to tell them how to extrac

Re: Files from gnulib

> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 17:50:59 +0100 > From: Ulrich Mueller > Cc: egg...@cs.ucla.edu, bug-gnulib@gnu.org, Jim Meyering , > emacs-de...@gnu.org, monn...@iro.umontreal.ca, > roucaries.bast...@gmail.com > > For example, most files of CEDET were renamed to 8+3 some time ago, > breaking othe

Re: RE : Re: Files from gnulib

> From: Jim Meyering > Cc: roucaries.bast...@gmail.com, egg...@cs.ucla.edu, bug-gnulib@gnu.org, > monn...@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-de...@gnu.org > Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 17:32:27 +0100 > > Not being able to use a preferred file name due to the archaic 8.3 > naming limitations is onerous, even

Re: Files from gnulib

On 01/25/11 03:24, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > It uses some > convoluted algorithm to replace the extra dot with a `_' or a `-'; > sometimes it replaces the first dot, sometimes the second. The > results are often unpredictable or surprising, especially if, as it > often happens, the modified names al

Re: RE : Re: Files from gnulib

> From: Leo > Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 00:03:18 +0800 > Cc: bug-gnulib@gnu.org > > I also think it is insane, the 8+3 thing. It is a huge burden evidenced > by loads of weirdly-named files in the repo. What on Earth are you talking about? what "loads" of which "weirdly-named" files do you mean? A

Re: RE : Re: Files from gnulib

Leo writes: >> Forcing current and future emacs development into the archaic 8.3 mold has >> a significant cost (just look at how long this thread is), yet provides >> relatively little benefit. > > I also think it is insane, the 8+3 thing. It is a huge burden evidenced > by loads of weirdly-named

Re: RE : Re: Files from gnulib

Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Jim Meyering >> Cc: Bastien ROUCARIES , >> egg...@cs.ucla.edu, bug-gnulib@gnu.org, monn...@iro.umontreal.ca, >> emacs-de...@gnu.org >> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 15:51:00 +0100 >> >> Forcing current and future emacs development into the archaic 8.3 mold has >> a significa

Re: RE : Re: Files from gnulib

> From: Jim Meyering > Cc: Bastien ROUCARIES , egg...@cs.ucla.edu, > bug-gnulib@gnu.org, monn...@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-de...@gnu.org > Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 15:51:00 +0100 > > Forcing current and future emacs development into the archaic 8.3 mold has > a significant cost The costs are ge

Re: RE : Re: Files from gnulib

Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 09:20:48 +0100 >> From: Bastien ROUCARIES >> Cc: emacs-de...@gnu.org, monn...@iro.umontreal.ca, bug-gnulib@gnu.org, >> Paul Eggert >> >> Btw does doslfn not available these days? > > It can be downloaded (although unmaintained since 2006), but I

Re: RE : Re: Files from gnulib

> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 09:20:48 +0100 > From: Bastien ROUCARIES > Cc: emacs-de...@gnu.org, monn...@iro.umontreal.ca, bug-gnulib@gnu.org, > Paul Eggert > > Btw does doslfn not available these days? It can be downloaded (although unmaintained since 2006), but I don't know whether it can

Re: Files from gnulib

Le mardi 25 janvier 2011 12:24:56, Eli Zaretskii a écrit : > > Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 00:48:12 -0800 > > From: Paul Eggert > > CC: monn...@iro.umontreal.ca, bug-gnulib@gnu.org, emacs-de...@gnu.org > > > > instead of doing the stuff I mentioned before the tarball is > > created, we can add a shell

Re: Files from gnulib

> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 00:48:12 -0800 > From: Paul Eggert > CC: monn...@iro.umontreal.ca, bug-gnulib@gnu.org, emacs-de...@gnu.org > > instead of doing the stuff I mentioned before the tarball is > created, we can add a shell script to be run after the tarball is > extracted. For example, on MS

Re: Files from gnulib

On 01/24/2011 08:00 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > There are no special tarballs for MSDOS. Ah, sorry, then I misunderstood. Well, then, instead of doing the stuff I mentioned before the tarball is created, we can add a shell script to be run after the tarball is extracted. For example, on MS-DOS the

RE : Re: Files from gnulib

Btw does doslfn not available these days? Bastien Le 25 janv. 2011 05:00, "Eli Zaretskii" a écrit : > Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 15:26:06 -0800 > From: Paul Eggert > CC: Stefan Monnier , bug-gnulib@gnu.org, > emacs-de...@gnu.org > > On 01/23/11 20:01, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > The program used t

Re: Files from gnulib

> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 15:26:06 -0800 > From: Paul Eggert > CC: Stefan Monnier , bug-gnulib@gnu.org, > emacs-de...@gnu.org > > On 01/23/11 20:01, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > The program used to unpack the .tar.gz archives automatically renames > > ant .FOO files to _FOO while unpacking, so that'

Re: Files from gnulib

On 01/23/11 20:01, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > The program used to unpack the .tar.gz archives automatically renames > ant .FOO files to _FOO while unpacking, so that's not a problem. OK, so it sounds like there's already part of a solution here, in that files are automatically renamed to avoid the MS-

Re: Files from gnulib

> Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 11:29:37 -0800 > From: Paul Eggert > CC: emacs-de...@gnu.org, bug-gnulib > > Developers on Microsoft Windows platforms all have access to > better file systems these days, surely. I'm talking only about the MSDOS port. The Windows port has no problems with these file n

Re: Files from gnulib

> From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , bug-gnulib , > emacs-de...@gnu.org > Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 22:26:52 -0500 > > > The Emacs trunk already has seventeen other files > > with 2 dots in their file names, with names like > > lisp/gnus/.dir-locals.el > > I don't know how MSDOS handles

Re: Files from gnulib

> The Emacs trunk already has seventeen other files > with 2 dots in their file names, with names like > lisp/gnus/.dir-locals.el I don't know how MSDOS handles names that start with dot, so either this is a special case that's OK, or it's indeed a problem which we hadn't noticed yet. > and admin

Re: Files from gnulib

Paul Eggert replied to Eli Zaretskii: > > Some of the new files added from gnulib use file names that are > > invalid on 8+3 (aka MSDOS) filesystems. These files are: > > > > c++defs.h -- the `+' character is not allowed in file names > > I am sympathetic to the proposal to rename c++defs.h to

Re: Files from gnulib

[Adding bug-gnulib to the thread that started in ]: On 01/23/2011 04:15 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Some of the new files added from gnulib use file names that are > invalid on 8+3 (aka MSDOS) filesystems. These files are: > >