Ah, I see, so it's only payee who has to enable it, payer side is on by
default. Then fine, situation is better than I thought. We'll look at
implementing BIP70 asap.
Best regards,
Alex Kotenko
2014-03-10 19:28 GMT+00:00 Andreas Schildbach :
> On 03/10/2014 04:09 PM, Alex Kotenko wrote:
>
> >
On 03/10/2014 04:09 PM, Alex Kotenko wrote:
> Yes, I'm certain about that we need to switch to BIP70 asap. As I said
> earlier - support among the wallets is the biggest problem here really.
> Only Andreas' Wallet supports it right now AFAIK, and even in there it's
> only as "LABS feature", so w
It heavily depends on where you use it. Here in UK any card payments are
often limited to minimum of £5 in small shops that have heavy transaction
fees burden and low margins. Big networks with more resources often let you
pay as little as you want by card, and they more often have NFC enabled POS
Just to add some more numbers, in Canada, the maximum is $50 and I've used it
for transactions of $5, even less.
I use it every day to pay for breakfast and it works through my wallet, even
with multiple NFC enabled cards in there (though not overlapping). The
experience is quite smooth; simpl
>
> I just did my first contactless nfc payment with a MasterCard. It worked
> very well and was quite delightful - definitely want to be doing more of
> these in future.
>
A bit more competitive intelligence - turns out that the experience isn't
quite so good after all. After trying a few more ti
2014-03-08 8:52 GMT+00:00 Jan Vornberger :
> On Thu, Mar 06, 2014 at 02:39:52PM +, Alex Kotenko wrote:
> > Not sure if you've seen it, but here is how we do NFC right now
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGOMIG9JUY8 with XBTerminal.
>
> Very interesting, thanks for sharing! Are the two de
On Thu, Mar 06, 2014 at 02:39:52PM +, Alex Kotenko wrote:
> Not sure if you've seen it, but here is how we do NFC right now
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGOMIG9JUY8 with XBTerminal.
Very interesting, thanks for sharing! Are the two devices on the same
wifi network in the demo? In my experi
On Thu, Mar 06, 2014 at 10:45:31AM +0100, Mike Hearn wrote:
> I just did my first contactless nfc payment with a MasterCard. It worked
> very well and was quite delightful - definitely want to be doing more of
> these in future. I think people will come to expect this kind of
> no-friction payment
I think a reputation network is more complicated than is needed for
this. This can be solved by the market.
What is needed is a simple method for each individual user to mark
certain merchant as trusted. For example, if your device gets an
untrusted payment request, it'll make a small sound, light
2014-03-07 11:23 GMT+01:00 Andreas Schildbach :
> Good news: HCE offers the required dispatch ability -- they call it AID
> (Application ID).
>
Yes, that's also something adopted from the existing Smartcard world.
Existing smartcards can contain different payment applications (for example
in Ger
>
> Interesting side note: They recommend messages transmitted via NFC to
> not exceed 1 KB in order for a snappy experience. This (again) questions
> usage of bulky X.509 certificates in our payment request messages.
> Bitcoin Wallet currently does not sign payment requests, so I could not
> try h
On 03/07/2014 10:26 AM, Johannes Zweng wrote:
> In current phone implementations, the screen must be on already for NFC
> to be active. Also it must be unlocked, although I certainly hope future
> OSes will allow payment apps on the lock screen, just like they allow
> music players
HCE is a bit scary. It's like the card companies tried the secure element
thing, decided the security was too hard and were like "screw it, let's
just use regular apps after all". Not that we're any better :)
At any rate, Bitcoin doesn't have any need to emulate smartcards as we
don't have any pre
2014-03-06 12:26 GMT+01:00 Andreas Schildbach :
> In current phone implementations, the screen must be on already for NFC
> to be active. Also it must be unlocked, although I certainly hope future
> OSes will allow payment apps on the lock screen, just like they allow
> music players.
Just a sm
On 03/06/2014 07:03 PM, Alex Kotenko wrote:
> Supporting Bluetooth is optional in the sense that if a wallet should
> not support it, you will still receive the transaction via the P2P
> network. So I'd say definately go for Bluetooth.
>
> Yes, it's part of the plan. Just again - I
I doubt that this is possible (with the Android API). But I'll try.
On 03/06/2014 06:00 PM, Mike Hearn wrote:
> I think maybe the way you do it is to have a NDEF tag that triggers the
> app, and then that starts an IsoDep protocol once opened. I *think*.
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 5:55 PM, An
2014-03-06 17:03 GMT+00:00 Mike Hearn :
> About the video - I'm curious how your device is better than just a
> regular tablet. Could you give us the elevator pitch? :)
sure, here:
- tougher than phone/tablet. Phone dropped on the tiled floor is likely to
die instantly. Our device is designed to
>
> it's the responsibility of the individual members to maintain their own
> good/bad user lists. Would you think that's a good thing or a bad thing to
> give the individual players that level of control/responsibility?
>
If it's explicit, I think it's a non starter and nobody will bother with
it
On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 12:12 PM, Mike Hearn wrote:
> If there was a way for a Bitcoin user to provide feedback on a payment
>> (ECDSA signature from one of the addresses involved in the payment, signing
>> an identifier of the payment and a feedback score)
>>
>
> Well now you're getting into the
>
> If there was a way for a Bitcoin user to provide feedback on a payment
> (ECDSA signature from one of the addresses involved in the payment, signing
> an identifier of the payment and a feedback score)
>
Well now you're getting into the area that I said "rapidly got very
complicated".
Define
On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Mike Hearn wrote:
> if some sort of Stealth address or HD wallet root was the identity gaining
>> the reputation, then address re-use wouldn't have to be mandatory.
>>
> The identity would be the X.520 name in the signing cert that signed the
> payment request. It
2014-03-06 16:46 GMT+00:00 Andreas Schildbach :
> Supporting Bluetooth is optional in the sense that if a wallet should
> not support it, you will still receive the transaction via the P2P
> network. So I'd say definately go for Bluetooth.
>
Yes, it's part of the plan. Just again - I need to mak
>
> if some sort of Stealth address or HD wallet root was the identity gaining
> the reputation, then address re-use wouldn't have to be mandatory.
>
The identity would be the X.520 name in the signing cert that signed the
payment request. It doesn't have to be a difficult to obtain cert. It could
Thanks Alex!
About the video - I'm curious how your device is better than just a regular
tablet. Could you give us the elevator pitch? :)
On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 3:39 PM, Alex Kotenko wrote:
> I mean - if with Bitcoin v0.9 transaction fees will become really
> floating, and it should eventually
I think maybe the way you do it is to have a NDEF tag that triggers the
app, and then that starts an IsoDep protocol once opened. I *think*.
On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 5:55 PM, Andreas Schildbach wrote:
> On 03/06/2014 03:51 PM, Andreas Schildbach wrote:
>
> >> I'm not sure if iso-dep is the way
On 03/06/2014 03:51 PM, Andreas Schildbach wrote:
>> I'm not sure if iso-dep is the way to go here. Afaik as soon as you pick
>> up the phone the connection breaks.
>>
>> If the phone isn't willing to immediately authorise then it'd have to
>> fall back to HTTPS or Bluetooth as normal.
>
>
> I wonder about the receipt step -- are you generating a PDF on device
> and sending it via NFC? This is something that could be supported by the
> BIP70 payment protocol. We should try to avoid the second tap, its not
> intuitive.
>
Together, the signed PaymentRequest and the transactions in t
> Not sure if you've seen it, but here is how we do NFC right
> now http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGOMIG9JUY8 with XBTerminal.
Thanks for the video! It's always good to see these things in action so
you can start believing in it.
> For now this is just an NDEF URI message with Bitcoin URI insid
On 03/06/2014 02:44 PM, Mike Hearn wrote:
> I'm not sure if iso-dep is the way to go here. Afaik as soon as you pick
> up the phone the connection breaks.
>
> If the phone isn't willing to immediately authorise then it'd have to
> fall back to HTTPS or Bluetooth as normal.
Ok, that would
Hi Mike
Not sure if you've seen it, but here is how we do NFC right now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGOMIG9JUY8 with XBTerminal.
For now this is just an NDEF URI message with Bitcoin URI inside, and then
transaction itself propagated to the network by the phone using it's own
Internet connecti
On Mar 6, 2014 3:47 AM, "Mike Hearn" wrote:
>
> I just did my first contactless nfc payment with a MasterCard. It worked
very well and was quite delightful - definitely want to be doing more of
these in future. I think people will come to expect this kind of
no-friction payment experience and Bitc
On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 12:26 PM, Andreas Schildbach
wrote:
> I'm not sure if iso-dep is the way to go here. Afaik as soon as you pick
> up the phone the connection breaks.
If the phone isn't willing to immediately authorise then it'd have to fall
back to HTTPS or Bluetooth as normal.
> Besides
I'm not sure if iso-dep is the way to go here. Afaik as soon as you pick
up the phone the connection breaks. It's ok if some people decide to let
the app do risk analysis, but you cannot force it onto users by picking
a protocol that cannot deal with manual verification. Users should
always have th
I just did my first contactless nfc payment with a MasterCard. It worked
very well and was quite delightful - definitely want to be doing more of
these in future. I think people will come to expect this kind of
no-friction payment experience and Bitcoin will need to match it, so here
are some notes
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