Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Scott Ritchie wrote on 15/06/10 04:29: > > On 06/14/2010 12:31 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: >... >> You mentioned at UDS that before Wine began inserting notification >> area items into the Gnome notification area, it put them in a >> separate window

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

"Frederik Nnaji" wrote: >> >> Real shortly then: broken but not-yet-replaceable applications needs two >> things from their indicators: >> >> 1. to be able to interact left/right click etc >> 2. to be able to be seen at all times >> >> That's it. Otherwise they break the *experience*. As descr

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

> > Real shortly then: broken but not-yet-replaceable applications needs two > things from their indicators: > > 1. to be able to interact left/right click etc > 2. to be able to be seen at all times > > That's it. Otherwise they break the *experience*. As described, above. Not > unusable, but it

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

Now, moving on with the discussion itself: > Real shortly then: broken but not-yet-replaceable applications needs > two things from their indicators: > > 1. to be able to interact left/right click etc > 2. to be able to be seen at all times Instead of keeping the notification area *exactly* a

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

> I am calm. And I don't think there is a conspiracy. I have no idea why > someone would put those words in my mouth, but oh well... That was a tongue-in-cheek comment and not meant to be taken seriously. Sorry if you felt I was putting words in your mouth. :( > I am only (repeat-)explaining wh

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

2010/6/16 Conscious User > > Kristoffer, calm down. > [...] There is no evil conspiracy to break your desktop experience, just a > desire to see if there are any improvement possibilities that are being > overlooked. > > I am calm. And I don't think there is a conspiracy. I have no idea why some

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

Kristoffer, calm down. This is a brainstorm phase. None of the ideas proposed so far were proposed in the most polished form possible, and there are many other possible ideas to consider. It is a little bit premature to conclude that keeping the notification area exactly as it is for Wine apps i

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

2010/6/16 Conscious User > "Breaking" is too strong of a word. Putting Wine/Java icons in a > separate window or indicator menu would make them suboptimal, > sure, but still fully functional. > > It's the exact right word, since I wasn't talking about functionality. Rocks are functional, but have

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

> Well, I don't think that's the question at all. We already have a > near-optimal solution to this in sticking the old-style notification > area alongside the new indicator applet. An optimal one would be some > kind of indicator that gave good UX and integrated nicely with the > indicator apple

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On 16 June 2010 12:28, Conscious User wrote: > > > > Well, any closed but not replaceable application that can't or won't > > adapt, as well as any open application that has yet to be fixed. The > > latter should hopefully disappear over time (but how much time?), the > > former also goes into th

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

> Well, any closed but not replaceable application that can't or won't > adapt, as well as any open application that has yet to be fixed. The > latter should hopefully disappear over time (but how much time?), the > former also goes into the "never will "category for the purpose of > this discuss

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On 04/25/2010 04:04 PM, Marc Deslauriers wrote: > On Sun, 2010-04-25 at 19:28 -0300, Paulo J. S. Silva wrote: >> I do believe that the best balance would be to prompt the user in >> specific moments (log-out, before suspend/lock) with a dialog that has >> as default option to apply the updates. The

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

2010/6/16 Conscious User > > > Plus, with this mockup, you need an inidicator icon/menu for each > > class of application that might put things in the notification area? > > No. Just for the corner cases that cannot use libappindicator and > never will, like Wine and Java. Are there any other bes

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

> Plus, with this mockup, you need an inidicator icon/menu for each > class of application that might put things in the notification area? No. Just for the corner cases that cannot use libappindicator and never will, like Wine and Java. Are there any other besides those two? All other classes of

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Tue, 2010-06-15 at 10:42 +0100, Luke Benstead wrote: > We are talking about an > impossible-to-overcome-by-application-indicator-design-limitation. I presume system indicators went from objects to states so right clicking was thrown out. So Networking to State of Network and Messages to You Hav

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On 15 June 2010 19:10, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > On 15/06/10 10:42, Luke Benstead wrote: > > We are talking about an > > impossible-to-overcome-by-application-indicator-design-limitation. > > AppIndicators can't do this, you're right. But the system indicators > like Network and Me menu's can, s

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

2010/6/15 Jeremy Nickurak > Here's an idea: Just leave the notification icons in the panel. They > should show up right next to the existing indicator icons. This could > be done in the same indicator-applet or in a seperate > notification-area applet, it doesn't really matter. What's important >

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On 15/06/10 10:42, Luke Benstead wrote: > We are talking about an > impossible-to-overcome-by-application-indicator-design-limitation. AppIndicators can't do this, you're right. But the system indicators like Network and Me menu's can, so a Wine one could too. We just need to think if that's a goo

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On 15/06/10 10:35, Luke Benstead wrote: > I thought about that, but AFAIK you can't have right clicking (perhaps > also double clicking) inside an indicator menu. We could do a special-case for this. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature __

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

Plus, with this mockup, you need an inidicator icon/menu for each class of application that might put things in the notification area? That's gross, on top of the just-not-working problem. Here's an idea: Just leave the notification icons in the panel. They should show up right next to the existin

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On 15 June 2010 10:39, Conscious User wrote: > > > > How about a middle-ground compromise? Not using a full blown > > window, > > but putting the Wine tray icons inside an indicator menu. > > > > Horrible mockup attached for illustration. > > > > > > I thought abou

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

> How about a middle-ground compromise? Not using a full blown > window, > but putting the Wine tray icons inside an indicator menu. > > Horrible mockup attached for illustration. > > > I thought about that, but AFAIK you can't have right clickin

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On 15 June 2010 10:32, Conscious User wrote: > > > > A massive portion of Ubuntu users use Wine or Java apps to some > > degree. If we are trying to improve usability, how would relegating > > non-application-indicator-conforming apps to floating windows improve > > a user's experience compared t

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

> A massive portion of Ubuntu users use Wine or Java apps to some > degree. If we are trying to improve usability, how would relegating > non-application-indicator-conforming apps to floating windows improve > a user's experience compared to the current situation of having the > (empty most of th

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On 14 June 2010 08:31, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Scott Ritchie wrote on 23/04/10 06:48: > > > > I like where you're going, but what do we do about interoperability? > > > > There's a hint in your post that we'll simply leave apps broken, stic

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On 06/14/2010 12:31 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: > Scott Ritchie wrote on 23/04/10 06:48: > >> I like where you're going, but what do we do about interoperability? > >> There's a hint in your post that we'll simply leave apps broken, stick >> up our middle fingers, and tempt developers with our

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dylan McCall wrote on 26/04/10 16:28: >... > Lots of things can be done with PolicyKit and Gksudo to encourage more > secure operation, and with some work maybe we can help raise the > user's awareness when he enters a password. Something quick that >

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Scott Ritchie wrote on 23/04/10 06:48: > > I like where you're going, but what do we do about interoperability? > > There's a hint in your post that we'll simply leave apps broken, stick > up our middle fingers, and tempt developers with our millions

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Martin Owens wrote on 21/04/10 21:57: >... > So long as it doesn't kill off the character pallet that I use for > printing ° and € :-) I'll be fine. >... I've specified that you should be able to access the Character Map from the keyboard menu

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 22:12, Ted Gould wrote: > Whether or not it's important to UI design is independent to whether it > is related to removing the notification area.  For instance, the update > manager icon could as easily be an app indicator or notification area > icon. > > So, I think what D

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 22:12, Ted Gould wrote: > Whether or not it's important to UI design is independent to whether it > is related to removing the notification area.  For instance, the update > manager icon could as easily be an app indicator or notification area > icon. > > So, I think what D

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Mon, 2010-04-26 at 13:57 -0500, Scott Kitterman wrote: > "David Siegel" wrote: > >What does this have to do with the notification area changes? Please > >continue this conversation elsewhere if you must. Let's all do our > >part to keep Ayatana discussions on track. > > I guess it depends on if

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

"David Siegel" wrote: >What does this have to do with the notification area changes? Please >continue this conversation elsewhere if you must. Let's all do our >part to keep Ayatana discussions on track. > I guess it depends on if you believe security is irrelevant to U/I design or not. Since

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

What does this have to do with the notification area changes? Please continue this conversation elsewhere if you must. Let's all do our part to keep Ayatana discussions on track. David ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayata

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

"Frederik Nnaji" wrote: >security is nothing for a visual internet designer to be concerned about. >we have a security team taking care of that, did anybody as *them*? This is completely wrong (even with your amendments). Security considerations must be embedded in all aspects of design. Sec

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 17:28, Dylan McCall wrote: > Something quick that occurs to me is that the password > dialog could show a personal message > or a picture that only PolicyKit or gksudo has access to. THANK YOU for putting a dot to this hairy topic! i hope the security team is aware of leap

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 7:25 AM, Frederik Nnaji wrote: > security is nothing for a visual internet designer to be concerned about. I'm mostly in agreement with you there, Frederik. I do think UI design has a role to play in security (in particular, we can't make the user tired of the concept), bu

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 16:25, Frederik Nnaji wrote: > security is nothing for a visual internet designer to be concerned about. oh gods, forgive me: ..nothing for a visual UI designer.. sorry! ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 16:25, Frederik Nnaji wrote: > security is nothing for a visual internet designer to be concerned about. oh gods forgive me! //visual designer// ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchp

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

security is nothing for a visual internet designer to be concerned about. we have a security team taking care of that, did anybody as *them*? i see the sustainable security solution in the fashion of PGP protection for example. how do others implement update notification? didn't OSX show updates (

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Monday 26,April,2010 01:39 AM, Marc Deslauriers wrote: > On Sun, 2010-04-25 at 13:55 -0300, Paulo J. S. Silva wrote: >> That is the reason while the pop-up/under/what ever is a BAD idea. And >> the reason is that it is asynchronous, so the user is getting taught >> to respond to (possibly fake)

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

> I think installing security updates automatically may be the only way to > get them installed for people who are afraid of the pop-ups. > I agree. >> >> I do believe that the best balance would be to prompt the user in >> specific moments (log-out, before suspend/lock) with a dialog that has >>

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Sun, 2010-04-25 at 19:28 -0300, Paulo J. S. Silva wrote: > > Option #1: Display an icon in the notification area that nobody clicks, > > as a result security updates never get installed and system is > > compromised from the lack of important security updates. > > > > Option #2: Pop-up the updat

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Marc Deslauriers wrote: > On Sun, 2010-04-25 at 13:55 -0300, Paulo J. S. Silva wrote: >> That is the reason while the pop-up/under/what ever is a BAD idea. And >> the reason is that it is asynchronous, so the user is getting taught >> to respond to (possibly fake)

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Sun, 2010-04-25 at 13:55 -0400, Jim Rorie wrote: > On Sun, 2010-04-25 at 10:55 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > > > > > > 2) I have to dig through the menu to trigger updates(Hmm, is that > > > preferences or administration? I can never remember). Annoying for a > > > regular task. > > >

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On 25 April 2010 18:39, Marc Deslauriers wrote: > On Sun, 2010-04-25 at 13:55 -0300, Paulo J. S. Silva wrote: >> That is the reason while the pop-up/under/what ever is a BAD idea. And >> the reason is that it is asynchronous, so the user is getting taught >> to respond to (possibly fake) windows r

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Sun, 2010-04-25 at 13:39 -0400, Marc Deslauriers wrote: > So...what does a web page do with the user's password once it's obtained? Not > much, Go here and read the saga: http://thecoffeedesk.com/news/index.php/2009/08/22/4chan-hacked-facebook-pictures/ They used the password from one site t

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Sun, 2010-04-25 at 10:55 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > > > 2) I have to dig through the menu to trigger updates(Hmm, is that > > preferences or administration? I can never remember). Annoying for a > > regular task. > > > > Again. Updates are not a regular task for regular users. Bu

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Sun, 2010-04-25 at 13:55 -0300, Paulo J. S. Silva wrote: > That is the reason while the pop-up/under/what ever is a BAD idea. And > the reason is that it is asynchronous, so the user is getting taught > to respond to (possibly fake) windows request their password. This is > a path for disaster i

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

That is the reason while the pop-up/under/what ever is a BAD idea. And the reason is that it is asynchronous, so the user is getting taught to respond to (possibly fake) windows request their password. This is a path for disaster if we ever get remotely close to solving Bug n. 1. And, answering to

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

Hi Matthew, Mark, First of all, I'd like to say thank you for posting this as a discussion to the list - whether I like or dislike what you want to do it's best it's spoken about! I think I agree with the notification area being a bad thing, however I'm not sure that a set of unmovable indicat

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

Presumably nothing can be added to the notification area without sudo, so either you are already pwned (game over) or else you can trust the notification. Not so for pop-up windows. I think the pop-up Update Manager window was an interesting idea worth exploring for a couple of releases, but with

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

> Disagree. Because update-manager does not require gksudo, there is no > screen dimming or anything else that indicates in an obvious manner > that it is an actual update window and not a popup coming from the > browser. > > (I'm not talking about popup in the browser window sense, I'm talking >

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

> And you think malware couldn't put up a systray icon tricking you into > thinking you have updates? You think you would be able to tell the > difference? The panel icon is just as fakeable as the popup. Disagree. Because update-manager does not require gksudo, there is no screen dimming or anyt

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Sunday 25,April,2010 05:55 PM, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > > And you think malware couldn't put up a systray icon tricking you into > thinking you have updates? You think you would be able to tell the > difference? The panel icon is just as fakeable as the popup. Frankly speaking, I think I'd h

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 11:55, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > Some security updates are not active until you reboot. Period. If there is a > security problem in your kernel, you need a new kernel, and you need to boot > it. We're done a lot of work to minimise the number of cases where that's > import

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On 24/04/10 15:20, Jim Rorie wrote: > But you are penalizing the very people that are helping you. I can't > install updates automatically because I'm typically running a late > alpha, beta or RC to help Ubuntu test it's product. Or I'm on > development machine that can't afford to go down becaus

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Fri, 2010-04-23 at 09:56 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > I appreciate the desire to defend the users flow. That's a value we > share. But being dogmatic about that won't get the best result. We > should be sparing about interruptions, so that when we do them, people > pay attention. And we sh

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

> Hrm. whaaat.. > Design Communication is essential for the developer community, and for > the designers to layout the future plans , to co-ordinate the design > implementation. This part is improving and the design team's blog is the > start of such improvements. > > This should not be of conce

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

> > Plus, as I pointed out several months ago, this is a HUGE security hole. > Passwords should only be given in response to a user initiated > operation. Asynchronous dialogs that ask for passwords are a very bad > precedent for a secure O/S. > > > Best we get those finger-swipe gadgets working,

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 15:53 +0200, Conscious User wrote: > > That's true, we haven't done as good a job of communication in the past > > as we could have. But we're working on improving it. For this issue > > yesterday there were posts on design.canonical.com, > > markshuttleworth.com, this mailing

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On 22/04/10 21:46, Jim Rorie wrote: > >> Jim Rorie wrote on 22/04/10 01:42: >> >>> I have been silent on the update manager issue in the hopes that a sane >>> solution would present itself. It hasn't. Now you are forcing our >>> hand. So I submit. What do you intend to do to resolve that fa

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On 22/04/10 21:26, Martin Owens wrote: > Hello Mark, > > On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 08:49 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > >> It's a good point. The workspaces experience has languished, and I'd >> like for us to climb in and improve it substantially. At the moment, >> we >> do a half-hearted job -

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

I like where you're going, but what do we do about interoperability? There's a hint in your post that we'll simply leave apps broken, stick up our middle fingers, and tempt developers with our millions of users. That may work for open source projects in our repository, but we need to accept t

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

In interest of further and slightly more organized discussion, I'm finally starting a blog that I've been meaning to for sometime, about usability (I know, another one) in the interest of eventually developing ideas, not just talking about them. If you're interested in any of the idea's I've presen

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 22:40, Conscious User wrote: > >> If people don't figure out how to use something we designed, the answer >> is to improve the design, and not to mount a campaign to educate them :-) >> >> By which I mean that the pieces should feel more natural, and getting >> things done

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

Specifically concerning the idea of a constant place to minimize windows too, on a parallel fork of the original email run, we've been discussing this. I don't know if anyone likes my idea as of yet, but I'm going to keep repeating it anyway. :D The beginning of the discussion centered on an idea

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 13:48 +0100, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Jim Rorie wrote on 22/04/10 01:42: > >... > > > > In short, what provisions have you made to provide the same short cut > > functionality without introducing additional clicks? >

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

> If people don't figure out how to use something we designed, the answer > is to improve the design, and not to mount a campaign to educate them :-) > > By which I mean that the pieces should feel more natural, and getting > things done should be more natural, or we're not succeeding. It is a n

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

Hello Mark, On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 08:49 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > It's a good point. The workspaces experience has languished, and I'd > like for us to climb in and improve it substantially. At the moment, > we > do a half-hearted job - we ship what's there but as you say, only > configure

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On 22 April 2010 18:14, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > Conscious User wrote: >> " 1) Communicating the goals and current status to end users. The amount >> of people who think the messaging menu is only a launcher, for >> example, is overwhelming. > > If people don't figure out how to use something we

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

Conscious User wrote: > " 1) Communicating the goals and current status to end users. The amount > of people who think the messaging menu is only a launcher, for > example, is overwhelming. If people don't figure out how to use something we designed, the answer is to improve the design, and not to

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jeremy Nickurak wrote on 21/04/10 21:58: > > AFAIK, this is a major deviation from what upstream and other > distributions are doing, even larger than that of notify-osd. We'll be working as closely as possible with the developers of all those applic

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On 21 April 2010 22:44, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi folks > > On the new Canonical Design site, we've just posted an overview of our > plan to retire the notification area (a.k.a. "system tray") from Ubuntu > by 11.04.

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

> That's true, we haven't done as good a job of communication in the past > as we could have. But we're working on improving it. For this issue > yesterday there were posts on design.canonical.com, > markshuttleworth.com, this mailing list, Twitter, and Identica. And I thank you and Mark for thos

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On 22 April 2010 12:59, Vishnoo wrote: > On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 08:49 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: >> On 22/04/10 04:27, Robin Anderson wrote: >> It's a good point. The workspaces experience has languished, and I'd >> like for us to climb in and improve it substantially. At the moment, we >> do a

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Conscious User wrote on 21/04/10 22:28: >... > As a regular reader of Ubuntu Forums, I know for a fact that there are > two things in Ayatana that really need improving: > > 1) Communicating the goals and current status to end users. The amount > of pe

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dylan McCall wrote on 22/04/10 04:50: >... > First of all, I think it would be worth investigating sound effects > attached to indicators. Doing it through the indicator applet means we > can (if desired) use Canberra's awesome ca_gtk_play_for_widget f

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jim Rorie wrote on 22/04/10 01:42: >... > A prominent example is that of the music player. Short of having a > window open to get in your way, the NA icon gives you a way to control > the player with a minimum number of clicks and no window management

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Frederik Nnaji wrote on 22/04/10 02:29: > > On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 23:04, Shane Fagan > wrote: >... >> I think the target is far enough but I wouldnt like to remove it from >> the default install until upstreams adopt the new spec fully. Which >> wi

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

Conscious User: "1) Communicating the goals and current status to end users. The amount of people who think the messaging menu is only a launcher, for example, is overwhelming. And I cannot really blame them in those cases. What should I say? "Well, it's obvious if you were subscribed in the Ayata

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

Just to make sure you get enough feedback... Workspaces is the one feature that made me think my Linux desktop is clearly superior to windows. The ability to organize niches for different uses like work, internet, fun (music and video), and easily switch between then is great. Instead of getting r

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 20:27 -0700, Robin Anderson wrote: > One important point I hope the design team is aware of and that gets > into discussions on this topic is that minimizing to the "notification > area" / "(not) system tray" is currently a very nice place to put > applications so they're acce

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 08:49 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > On 22/04/10 04:27, Robin Anderson wrote: > > One important point I hope the design team is aware of and that gets > > into discussions on this topic is that minimizing to the "notification > > area" / "(not) system tray" is currently a v

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On 22 April 2010 08:49, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > The workspaces experience has languished, and I'd > like for us to climb in and improve it substantially. At the moment, we > do a half-hearted job - we ship what's there but as you say, only > configure two workspaces. I'd be inclined to say "sh

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

Since I just joined this list I don't know of an easy way to reply to the messages sent so far in this thread so I'll say here, I definitely agree with everything in the thread so far; quality suggestions. For how to have minimized applications available on all workspaces: My first thought was to

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On 22 April 2010 03:49, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > > It's a good point. The workspaces experience has languished, and I'd > like for us to climb in and improve it substantially. At the moment, we > do a half-hearted job - we ship what's there but as you say, only > configure two workspaces. I'd b

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On 22/04/10 04:27, Robin Anderson wrote: > One important point I hope the design team is aware of and that gets > into discussions on this topic is that minimizing to the "notification > area" / "(not) system tray" is currently a very nice place to put > applications so they're accessible from all

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

Thanks for all the awesome explanations! I left a question in the comments at design.canonical.com, and I have a few other thoughts. First of all, I think it would be worth investigating sound effects attached to indicators. Doing it through the indicator applet means we can (if desired) use Canb

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

One important point I hope the design team is aware of and that gets into discussions on this topic is that minimizing to the "notification area" / "(not) system tray" is currently a very nice place to put applications so they're accessible from all workspaces / virtual desktops even if they aren't

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 22:44, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: > Do you have suggestions on how we can make the transition smoother? > thank you for asking for our opinions ;) after all u openly admit, conceptual mistakes did happen in the recent past.. looks like Ubuntu can learn from mistakes. glad

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 23:04, Shane Fagan wrote: > > Hey mpt, > > I think the target is far enough but I wouldnt like to remove it from > the default install until upstreams adopt the new spec fully. Which will > take a long enough time. I think remove it cold turkey from the next LTS > release j

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

Op woensdag 21-04-2010 om 16:57 uur [tijdzone -0400], schreef Martin Owens: > So long as it doesn't kill off the character pallet that I use for > printing ° and € :-) I'll be fine. You don't use "US International with AltGr dead keys" yet? -- Jan Claeys _

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

I see where you are going, but I have a couple of concerns. 1) It's a given that many developers were using(abusing) the notification area inappropriately. However, I think you are viewing part of this wrong. Yes, there were a lot of indicators that weren't notify anything. But they were shortcu

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

> 1) Communicating the goals and current status to end users. The amount > of people who think the messaging menu is only a launcher, for > example, is overwhelming. And I cannot really blame them in those > cases. What should I say? "Well, it's obvious if you were subscribed > in the Ayatana list

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

> Your feedback is welcome on this mailing list (or, if you prefer, on > either of those Web pages). Does the plan make sense? Or are we > completely off our rocker? Is there anything we've missed? Do you have > suggestions on how we can make the transition smoother? As a regular reader of Ubuntu

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

Hey mpt, I think the target is far enough but I wouldnt like to remove it from the default install until upstreams adopt the new spec fully. Which will take a long enough time. I think remove it cold turkey from the next LTS release just to give it fair warning to universe app developers/maintaine

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

AFAIK, this is a major deviation from what upstream and other distributions are doing, even larger than that of notify-osd. Is there any sign of uptake of the indicator suite of protocols upstream or in any other distributions? Why or why not? Gnome-shell certainly seems to be going a different di

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

It's makes sense, the lack of options to move things around will concern some in the design community who want to experiment. So long as it doesn't kill off the character pallet that I use for printing ° and € :-) I'll be fine. Martin, On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 21:44 +0100, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote

[Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi folks On the new Canonical Design site, we've just posted an overview of our plan to retire the notification area (a.k.a. "system tray") from Ubuntu by 11.04. Mark S. has posted an architect

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