The Windows drawterm is pretty naive about screen
sizes: it doesn't take into account window size,
the stupid title bar, or multiple monitors. Inferno
has dealt with at least some of this. Does anyone
have a drawterm that deals with this better? Or has
anyone tried and run into issues?
I really like faces(1). I've got a pair of derivatives I've been
playing around with. The first, cleverly called nfaces, overlays
the user, rather than the domain, on unknown senders (I have
good coverage of the domains I exchange mail with even
semi-frequently), and doesn't print
it's as you remember: college & university students
18 and over are invited to apply to a list of mentoring organizations
and, if selected, paired with a mentor to work on a specific project.
The most significant change from previous years is probably that
students may only participate a maximum of
In case you haven't seen the list, we were not selected for
GSoC this year, unfortunately. I don't yet have any info
about that (they're doing feedback a bit differently this
year). I'll let you know what the results of that are.
Anthony
Copy the correct timezone file for your locale from /adm/timezone
into /adm/timezone/local. Reboot.
I'm assuming /386/bin/fossil/fossil does not, in fact, exist.
The fact that the last file completed changes is just a distraction
in this case; I suspect you have $NPROC>1 and mk is parallelizing
its work. I think if you set NPROC=1 before running mk you'll stop
seeing that las
#x27;re trying to build the kernels
without the prerequisites in place, which (if anything) would make
this mostly a documentation bug (although I don't offhand have a
good idea where to document this).
Anthony
// I haven't used PQ either. In fact, has anyone used PQ in the
// last couple years?
Yes. In the past few years I've worked with teams building two
unrelated applications with it. One went through a technology
trial with a Tier 1 US telecom provider, but then floundered for
unrelat
We've spent a lot of time thinking about file system front ends
for databases (mostly in the context of pq, but not entirely). I'm
unconvinced that this model of representation really adds much
for most databases.
The problem is that the application talking to the database
still has t
Is -M the switch for the built-in mail reader?
This is lunacy, or profound ignorance. You're duplicating
functionality from about a half dozen other places in here,
perhaps most significantly the shell. The software tools
model gets its profound power from using simple tools
which do one
// ...why is the disk only available from the rc window
// that I used to mount it?
Each rio window gets its own namespace from rio. Changes in
one will not affect others; this is central to the Plan 9's per-
process namespaces.
srvfs(4) is often useful for getting portions of one namespace
into
>> % if(! test -e /n/usb) mkdir /n/usb
>> % mount -c /srv/ext2 /n/usb
>> mount: mount /n/usb: file does not exist
>
> i think you mean
>
> mount -c /srv/ext2 /n/ext2 /dev/sdXX/$partition
are you correcting the /n/usb to /n/ext2, or the lack of a
spec arg? if
submitted).
DSS is also freely available a plate at a time in various places. I
briefly considered trying to work up something for dynamic
download, but lost interest (I was only on scat on a tangetn,
trying to get the 2e roads program working).
--- Begin Message ---
The Digitized Sky Survey, 1
Given that you're already into Inferno as well as Plan 9, I
think a really nice way to get into driver development is
with emu drivers for Inferno. The basic structure is the
same as for native OS drivers in either system: implement
a small set of entry points (fooattach, fooread, &c),
m
> i think this confuses implementing a Dev interface with writing
> a device driver. for many devices, the Dev interface is already
> taken care of. for example, serial, ethernet, disk devices using
> sd implement an interface to devsd, ethernet.
i think the Dev interface is sti
ional (but recommended) component.
// ...can the new index section be larger?
Yes. You can either replace your old index (required if
you've suffered a hardware failure, for example) or
build a new index using your old index as a part. (if
you've just run out of space). In either case,
> Erik said I should try with a 9load from may 2007 or earlier, so I was
> wondering if anyone of you had one handy, or if there's a way to obtain
> one easily (mounting an old snapshot?)?
In addition to the one erik's now posted for you, you can get at the
archived snapshots
i don't really believe your problem's drawterm; i'm typing
this in drawterm on leopard now. more likely, either the
firewall settings have changed or whatever emulator you
have isn't talking to the network properly. to test this,
you can try telnet to those ports. obviously you won't get
far, but y
Is it intentional that the 2-1 chord behaves differently in external
programs? For example, I have a guide file with "0,.d" in it. If I
2-1 on Edit in a "normal" text window in Acme, it does what I'd
expect: delete from start of file to current selection. In win, for
examp
I've downloaded this new distribution and have been playing
around for about a day (much to the dismay of my growing
backlog of work tasks). It's very exciting; the wrappers around
the speech stuff on OS X are a nice touch.
I'd like to have as few copies of the base Inferno insta
// authdial: Connection refused
// srv: authproxy: auth_proxy rpc: p9any client get tickets: p9sk1: gettickets:
// Connection refused
are you sure that both your auth server is running (look for results
from 'ps | grep keyfs') and that you're running the network listener
for it (service.auth/tcp5
In /sys/src/9/boot/local.c^connectlocal we have:
if(bind("#k", "/dev", MAFTER)<0)
I am booting locally off a fossil partition, so I'm pretty
sure this is the right code path. The bind seems to
work (I stuck a test right after that in my local local.c),
but b
I'm not sure about the "usual" way, but I've got the
listens in cpurc commented out and rely only on
entries in /cfg/whatever/cpustart.
Does your cpustart listen specify -d as well as -t?
It looks like giving only -t should make it not try
(or re-try in your case) the non-trusted ones.
Anthony
Right, but how do you get your root file system if it's on a fs(3)
device? It looks like it should work, with connectlocalfossil
just a few lines after the bind in connectlocal, but that doesn't
seem to actually work for me. init.c (and thus /cfg/*) are much
later in the process.
Anthony
// is anyone already working on an factotum port to p9p or native Linux ?
wait, what?
: sh;ls -l /9/bin/factotum
-rwxr-xr-x 1 anthony admin 312148 Mar 1 13:23 /9/bin/factotum
// I've just wrote a patch to Linux kernel which allows changing
// another process' privileges (uid,
Yes. When the system come up, #k/fs/arenas exists, showing
fs(3) is getting initialized from the disk partition with its config,
and 'venti/conf '#k'/fs/arenas' give the expected results.
Anthony
While there's certainly significant overlap in users, you
might have better luck on Vita Nuova's Inferno list. I
forget the subscription information off hand, but I'm
certain you'll find it on their web site.
Anthony
f spam emails get blocked, yes,
services like spamhaus can be very effective, possibly the most effective
(short of drastic things like turning off smtp).
The problem in the real world is that "best" and "effective" also have to
incorporate a measure of legitimate emails blocked; in th
// rfc 2317 allows arbitrary cidrs to be delegated. so far,
// i've always been able to get reverse mappings set up
// for static addresses.
I think you've been lucky, or have been dealing with better ISPs.
Apart from my home ADSL line, I share a commercial SDSL with
some folks. We
Sigh. This seems to be working for me now. I rebuilt my kernels
after a pull (of nothing that looked relevant) and it just worked as
expected. I'd love to know what was going on, but I doubt I'll
spend any more time on it as each attempt involves rebooting my
file server, which is more
keyboard(7) (keyboard(6) on plan 9). lots of shortcuts for
specific things, but alt+x+1234 should produce glyphs.
see also $PLAN9/lib/keyboard.
--- Begin Message ---
Hi guys:
I hope this is not a very silly question, but I do not remember how to
write unicode characters in Acme. I am using plan 9
dn't move things around yet again... Though to be honest, the
choice used for default locations on OS X 10.5 finally makes sense.
A warning: MacFuse is very slow on network mount points.
-jas--- End Message ---
// i didn't see any references to fuse.version
// in p9p source. what file?
$PLAN9/bin/mount does a 'sysctl fuse.version' to see if it's
already loaded, and looks for the kext explicitly (and as of
v1.3, in the wrong place).
not part of 9pfuse, but support staff.
a
// If this fails you probably need to add the line
// "srv fossil" to your fossil config (using fossil/conf);
// See fossil(1).
I think "listen" and fossilcons(8) are more likely to be
helpful (although fossil(1) should get you there, if
indirectly).
Incidentally, I read t
in addition to Christian's response, note that if you have a
/srv/fscons file, you can 'con /srv/fscons' to get at an
interactive console where you can give the srv and listen
commands to test the effect without rebooting.
if it's not there, just make the change like Chris
I'm not running Linux, but I've run venti+fossil on Mac OS X for testing. I
intend to use venti there regularly once I figure out how to get OS X to let
me get at a raw partition that isn't mounted (anyone?).
I don't think venti+fossil will do what you're looking f
Very well explained. I've seen this question come up lots of times
when introducing fs-based interfaces to people. When we had some
off-shore devs to bring up to speed, they kept coming back to it: "so
can we just define a protocol to put all these streams in one file?". I
tried t
// The Plan 9 audio device data format is stereo, 16-bit
// little-endian PCM samples.
While I was at the labs, I'm pretty sure we had a /dev/audio that could
take different audio formats (told the format via /dev/audioctl). I can't
remember where it came from, though. Was something
not), but you might
look at vcat in p9p. It's not quite there - it seems to demand that
you're working with only a single file, rather than directory trees
(possibly containing only a single file) as vac creates - but does the
redirection and may be close to what you want.
Anthony
// combining functionality that is logically distinct is
// generally called unmodular, and a layering violation
// in this particular senerio.
i agree with the principle, but i'm not sure it applies in this
case. what's described (at least the part before any "garbage"
co
// Can I say what processes are running in the background...
I assume you mean in the shell (the rest of your questions were more
general). rc tracks this internally for wait to work (which will allow you
to wait for a given pid or all backgrounded pids) in waitpids in
/sys/src/cmd/rc/plan9.c
Is anyone running venti with raw disk partitions on Unix? I've got a
nice large disk to dedicate to it, and would like to do it without
needlessly imposing another fs, if possible, but am running into
problems. The blocker now is fmtarenas is complaining that it
"can't determine si
OS X. And yes, 9's ls reports size zero (as opposed to
OSX's ls "size" of "14, 12"). I'll spend a little time on
it this morning and see what i get. OS X's stat(1) can
get the info, so the hardest part might just be
figuring out which "project" Apple put the source for
stat in.
Anthony
// I don't believe Inferno can interface with Plan 9 from Bell Labs, can it?
It can. Stock Inferno has a few ways of doing this, although (last I tried)
there were authentication issues. Rog worked on those, but I'm not sure
to what extent they've been integrated.
// And Inferno
I wasn't able to get this working today, but I believe I made good
progress. Unfortunately, I'm traveling all day tomorrow and will
have questionable network access while away for about a week.
I've attached my version of _p9dir.c with the OS X code in it. The
addition is prett
Something of a recap from irc, but for others who might be interested:
On OS X, this all just worked for me pretty much as described in the
manual. With a running venti and $venti set, I ran this:
sudo vbackup /dev/rdisk0s2
and a few hours later got output like this:
mount /vav
gt;
> On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 4:07 AM, Russ Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> a quick announcement:
>>
>>http://swtch.com/9vx/
>>
>> i'll have time to say more later.
>>
>> russ
>>
>>
>>
>
--- End Message ---
I'm guessing here, but I think this was a reference to the fact
that in 10.5, Apple did some work to make X11 start automatically
when the first X11 app is run; maybe that's not working for pietro.
Is everyone having a problem on OS X on 10.5? I am.
OS X doesn't have strace; ≤
This doesn't happen with the X11 version, but does with the first
native OS X GUI code in 0.11 forward. In case it makes a difference,
this system has multiple displays.
Anthony
--- Begin Message ---
I have not bothered to create a new package,
but there is a new binary available for OS X:
This is a very good point. I mostly learned Unix in a corporate
environment, but the same logic holds: somebody else had set
up and maintained the systems.
// I'm afraid there's not much we can do about this.
Other, obviously, than getting uni types to use it there. Plan 9
(like In
// Systems research? Did you actually "research" how a normal user used their
// computer? Did you even try to guess how a normal user used their system?
// Did you do that and end up with a technical manual whose prime example for
// backup strategy involves a "Jukebox?"
// 5. Oh, and that thing on (4) is the Discordian transliteration of whatever
// was written on the apple. Greek text input to a mail client on Windows.
// Check if you can read it on the "mother of UTF-8." If you do you're
// "almost" there, if you don't...
Has anyone looked at getting p9p running on linux/mips?
Any results, even if just dire warnings?
Anthony
I dislike this idea. I think for most people, most of the time,
the lines acme's working with will fit well within the width of
a window. Yeah, I bet most of us have run into longer lines at
times, but the interface is optimized for the common case. I
wouldn't like to see that go.
was having a single location for
the variety of image types. Also, doing so with NFS
allows me to do it on a wide variety of Unix hosts with
no modifications or even installed software.
Of course, having played with it for a few days now,
I'll likely just end up doing vac dumps anyway. -a jus
This disparity comes up fairly often. As an example, some
folks have done a lot of good (in the sense of being useful)
work getting various GNU things working on Plan 9 as pre-
requisites for things they want. It'd be nice if these were
available as an "import package" for folks
Well, there's also people like me: I prefer and am able to use
Plan 9 the bulk of the time, but have a few particular tasks I
need Linux for. It'd be nice to be able to stick the Linux box
in a little jail.
I'm very glad 9vx exists: I now have Plan 9 on my OS X laptop.
I'd lik
there's a certain level of administration required, sure, but i think
eric's point was that the level of administration required just to get
a good VM environment up is pretty minimal. if your VM has its own
access to disk and network, you needn't have linux users or full
netw
i believe i am, but perhaps your experience is different from
mine. certainly there's less stuff to worry about patches for
if you've got less stuff on the box. again, the idea is not to
take ubuntu (or whatever) and stick a VM on top, but rather to
strip the linux down to just what&#
In addition to sqweek's good reply:
The "distributed" part also refers to how a typical installation is
structured. The system responsible for authenticating you, your
file server, the cpu server you run processes on, and the terminal
you're typing at may well all be distinc
esses inexpensive compared to unix. As for the
system overall, there's something to be said for decomposing
problems to interfaces that can be represented in the
namespace; then, to a large extent, it doesn't matter whether
we're talking about one box or many.
// On the other hand, may be
the memory question and
prediction/pipelining?
I'm reading the PDF you referenced now.
// Speaking of which -- is SPARC port of Plan9 still alive?
Not really. There's a partially-working sparc64 port out there
which ran on the Ultra 1 (I think), but it's neither been kept up
t
you'd expect, finding (usually) the right app.
I mostly get to my Plan 9 cpu servers via drawterm from
my OS X laptop these days (9vx soon, once I get a
comfortable environment there). I have a script that
calls drawterm with the right arguments. I just added
this to the script:
mkfifo /t
For me the URL works out to:
http://domino.research.ibm.com/comm/research_projects.nsf/pages/hare.index.html
HARE! Awesome.
Anthony
Ah, right. I'd started out using p9p's 'web', but
decided having access to 'open' might be useful
in other contexts, even if i'm not plumbing
anything to it right now.
Project for today is sort of the inverse: how to
make OS X use Acme-sac or B for text files.
Anyone looked at it?
Anthony
I now have a more-or-less unused MacBook. I'm
considering spending some time trying to get Plan 9
working on it. Has anyone gotten beyond confirming
that it won't work out of the box?
Anthony
This was an intel or ppc iMac? Did you make (if so,
how) or acquire (if so, from where) this ISO?
Getting that far would be much better than the
current stock ISO, which gets to the ELCR print.
Anthony
Perhaps related: fossilcons(8), talking about stat, says:
The bits denoted by capital letters are included to support
non-Plan 9 systems. They are not made visible by the 9P
protocol.
Has anything ever been done with this, or is this support still
theoretical?
HFS (and derivative) volumes contain one or both of the folloing
directories with astoundingly anti-social names:
HFS+ Private Data
.HFS+ Private Directory Data
(that's a at the end of the last one). This is an awful hack
to support hard links. There may be others (I thi
nti-social files.
It would be nice if Plan 9's vacfs were a bit more helpful in
this regard. I'll work up a patch soon.
Anthony
// You are not using Plan 9 anymore then, rather you are
// using something similar to Plan 9.
I don't think it's that simple. I understand the value of running a
native Plan 9 installation (self-sufficiency is an almost universal
value), but we don't hear the same complaints
(whatever files you're building in).
The 'pc' configuration doesn't have this problem because it
doesn't include fossil (and a few other things pcf has). See the
'bootdir' section of the config file.
Anthony
There have been several discussions on this list about 9vx's
IP stack being different from "normal" Plan 9 in the last two
weeks; you should check those out. The short version is that
9vx uses the host networking rather than its own, and (more-
or-less) consequently the kernel de
cked to see if the cache
device leaves space that the (pseudo-)worm doesn't.
Certainly it's worth trying sticking the config
elsewhere, and getting a remote, loggable console is
a huge win.
And this should be obvious, but bears repeating given
the consequences: when you say you're lo
// 1. plan 9 never used a static source port for queries,
Using dynamic ports is better than static, but if they're
sequential (or otherwise predictable), it doesn't buy you
all that much.
// 2. who does recursive queries on external interfaces?
I've been traveling in companie
// Sources is a bit different: it doesn't require
// authentication, but it will accept it.
Is this just 'listen -N' in fossilcons(8)?
Given that listen and users are fossil-wide, rather
than fsys-wide, it seems like duplicating what
sources is doing at a "normal"
56384: signal: sys: abort
This 9vx is post-0.12; I don't have any other systems to try 9vx
on, so I can't say if it shows up elsewhere. A recent drawterm to
an up-to-date (within ~3 days) kills acme with the following:
stringwidth: bad character set for rune 0x000
// Others, like me, have some "petty" work to do. Like knowing which
// character on which line they're editing or controlling how long their
// lines of text get, _without_ resorting to acrobatics.
Wait, your *job* is knowing where editor cursors are and how long
lines are? Wow, that really sucks
// Bite if you please. Hook, line, and sinker ;-)
Oh, I'm waiting for a phone call before bed. What the hell.
My job has nothing to do with your 1-3. I agree with Steve exactly: I
use Plan 9 because it allows me to get my job done easier. My job
includes some programming, some document wr
Let me make sure I understand the problem right: you have p9p
installed on two Unix boxes, A and B. Sitting at A, you ssh to B to
read your mail, and want to be able to plumb (or something
similar) attachments and have applications on A display them.
I presume you're also using no
There's also 'walk' by Dan Cross, in /n/sources/contrib/cross/walk.c.
Lsr's faster (bufio?), but I like walk's depth-limiting switch (and it
sounds like you might like the quoting switch).
Dan also did sor ("streaming or") to apply various tests to files. The
two in combination do very well for re
// 9vx hangs at the upas/fs invocation in /usr/glenda/lib/profile.
This is a known bug, although last i heard the cause was still a bit
of a mystery. Locally, I run upas/fs -n in my termrc, and then open
mailboxes I want explicitly down the road (since, from my 9vx
terminal, they're all IMA
// ...is there a piece of software already available
// that would act like an adapter between NFS
// clients and 9P servers...
nfsserver(8) might work for you: it'll grab a 9p server
and export it over nfs, allowing clients with no "special"
software to mount it. it used to do aut
s what
would be needed before you could do this. I suppose there's
no theoretical reason such a mapping couldn't exist, but you
would have to do the design and coding yourself. It would be
a significant undertaking to do reasonably.
2) Instead, one could read your mail as saying
Edit source, specifically /sys/src/cmd/acme/wind.c^winsettag1.
Look for where "Look" is added to the tag, and extend to whatever
you wish. Easy.
The Inferno Business Unit had a very small group down at
Holmdel, about 5 people. They were part of the "applications
group". I believe they worked on some of the applications
specific to the screenphone-type devices we were running
on, as well as the pre-Charon web browser.
I can&#
The following snippet works properly on native Plan 9 (and unix).
On 9vx, however:
:; awk '{system("echo "$0" | cat")}' words
sh: cat: cannot execute - Access denied
sh: cat: cannot execute - Access denied
Errors repeat until I kill the thing (or, presumably, words is out of
lines, but I won't wa
in particular, i'd like to be able to use factotum to hold my keys.
btw, i recently added a 2k rsa key for ssh to my secstore. now
my factotum (in 9vx on OS X) periodically crashes. when it
happens, it's always after i ssh using the key. anyone seen
anything similar, or alternately ha
// It dosent work unfortunatley its probally something I did,
// can you really break each step down for me?
At this point, you've been given all the references you need for
your stated goals. If something isn't working, you really ought
to provide a more detailed account of what you di
A few days ago, someone in #plan9 asked how to search for all
messages with a certain string in Acme Mail. The provided answer
was "grep(1)", which has the advantage of being concise and
maybe nominally correct, but the disadvantage of being totally
useless as a practical answer.
Tod
// i haven't gotten that memo.
Pietro has your copy. If you'd help us tidy things up a
bit, a quick 'rm $home/src $home/bin' would really be
good of you.
-Compliance Dpt.
> also, i just looked at Mg. i'm not sure why i would do 'Mg foo bar
> baz' when i can do grep '(foo|bar|baz)'
I started off wanting to do "Mg foo bar baz". It was sort of a happy
implementation accident that foo et al get to be regexps. "Mg foo
I have a laptop wit a fossil partion which is not backed by
venti. Yesterday I scrambled my display and had to reboot
without shutting things down nicely. That fossil was not
my root, but I believe it was running, with "main" open.
Today, running 'fossil/fossil -f /dev/sdC
acme for Inferno. If you want
something to fill a semi-traditional server or workstation role,
you probably want Plan 9. If you want a neat application
programming environment, or an environment for embedded
systems, you probably want Inferno. But neither are always
true.
Most of the time i wish
> So now [9p]'s almost the same as Styx, except for
> the Inferno authentication.
I think a more precise way of saying it is that in 9p2000 and
the new styx, authentication has been moved outside the
protocol proper. styx==9p now; the names are used by
convention to imply the auth method, if any.
relations
consistent, at a schema level. there are some cases where
this is valuable, but most of the time it just puts more of
the burden on the application.
enforcing consistency between values is a whole different
matter. i don't think that belongs in the database layer of
an applicat
know why fgb hasn't submitted it as a patch, and
I can't really evaluate the technical correctness of the
changes to cookie handling. But it works, and i've not seen
it break anything else.
// P.S. Speaking of Inferno -- I have always wanted to run it
// natively on these puppies:
// http://www.sunspotworld.com/
I got myself one of those kits for Christmas last year. My intent
wasn't native Inferno, but rather more like Styx on a Brick: export
the interesting hardware via
Yes, see the supported hardware page Devon linked. In
summary: we have a few, not many. We could certainly
use more. We have enough that you can likely find one
that works, but not enough that what you happen to
already have already works (unless you're like me, and
haven't bought a
so, how?
Relatedly, anyone tried porting the bitsy's software rotation?
It's a lot more pixels to move around, but the cpu's also
worlds faster, so...?
Anthony
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