Octopus sessions persist by definition as long as you do not
reboot your central PC. All other machines are used to run viewers, but
the layout is preserved by the (window) file system kept at the PC.
Also, you may use tar to capture (most of) the window system state
and restore it later (eg., upo
What can we expect an OctoVX32 distribution? ;)
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Francisco J Ballesteros <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Octopus sessions persist by definition as long as you do not
> reboot your central PC. All other machines are used to run viewers, but
> the layout is preserved by
> What can we expect an OctoVX32 distribution? ;)
>
No need.
The distribution at lsub.org can be used on top of
the platforms where Inferno runs.
I'm using it on MacOSX to access my main Plan 9 system.
I've used it some time ago on Windows to do the same, and I think
some other guy at lsub is
On Jun 29, 8:56 pm, "Russ Cox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > When we do get to see a glenda icon for 9vx?:-)
>
> I made an icon and a 9vx.app directory, but I have not
> gotten it completely working. I have been using the 9ball
> from second edition, because it is easier to recognize at
> tiny s
2008/6/29, underspecified <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> I second the Acme window t-shirt idea :-)
>
> By the upper-left of an acme window, I assume you mean something like this:
>
> http://cl.naist.jp/~eric-n/osx/acme-sac.tiff
>
> I can't recall for certain, but I believe at some point Caerwyn may
> h
People do acknowledge the new free systems. Unfortunately, RMS got
them off it in a microsecond when 3e came out:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/plan-nine.html
And I don't believe the Note at the top will change people's minds.
And even if we do manage to make people remember Plan 9, we live i
> Apparently, after a fork, a child retains it's parent's
> pid in _tos->pid.
I think this is at the root of why 9vx cannot run on MS-Windows.
I have been very slowly crawling towards an updated port of 9pm
(p9p for windows as it was) learing the Windows API and the plan9
kernel as I go.
The one
- Modify the kernel (it is based on Unix - even Microsoft says so)
- Learn how Cygwin does it
- Don't use real processes, like in Inferno
On Jun 30, 2008, at 8:34 AM, Steve Simon wrote:
Apparently, after a fork, a child retains it's parent's
pid in _tos->pid.
I think this is at the root of wh
>> Apparently, after a fork, a child retains it's parent's
>> pid in _tos->pid.
>
> I think this is at the root of why 9vx cannot run on MS-Windows.
No, it's not. The words fork and pid in that sentence
are concepts completely internal to 9vx. The host OS,
be it OS X or Linux or Windows, has a
>> I think this is at the root of why 9vx cannot run on MS-Windows.
> No, it's not.
I can only appologise for emailing before reading the vx30 paper properly,
I now understand (some of) how cunning it really is.
I 9vx for windows is the way to go.
Thanks russ.
-Steve
Pietro Gagliardi schrieb:
If people say "Plan 9 is too hard to use" they will allocate blame to
Rob Pike's rio before reading his tirade on other windowing systems
(which you can find at http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/doc/88/1-07.ps.gz).
With this link ione only gets the starting page of the pape
Pietro Gagliardi schrieb:
People do acknowledge the new free systems. Unfortunately, RMS got
them off it in a microsecond when 3e came out:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/plan-nine.html
And I don't believe the Note at the top will change people's minds.
Wikipedia says:
License
The full sourc
> anyway, i might have missed a report about this
> from someone else, but does anyone else
> find that when doing a longish mk, the terminal
> output will occasionally freeze, but is brought
> back very quickly by interacting with the mouse in the window (sometimes
> it seems to need an actual cli
> Pietro Gagliardi schrieb:
>> If people say "Plan 9 is too hard to use" they will allocate blame to
>> Rob Pike's rio before reading his tirade on other windowing systems
>> (which you can find at http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/doc/88/1-07.ps.gz).
> With this link ione only gets the starting page
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
Pietro Gagliardi schrieb:
If people say "Plan 9 is too hard to use" they will allocate blame to
Rob Pike's rio before reading his tirade on other windowing systems
(which you can find at http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/doc/88/1-07.ps.gz).
With this link ione
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
>>> Pietro Gagliardi schrieb:
>>>
If people say "Plan 9 is too hard to use" they will allocate blame to
Rob Pike's rio before reading his tirade on other windowing systems
(which you can find at http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/doc/88/1-07.ps.gz).
>>>
> is not available under Plan 9. (Or is it?) As there is no simple
> introduction to Plan 9 new users will just go the easy way and get
> Windows or Linux.
lack of an introduction is not the problem. not being unix
is the problem.
> For example the
> role of make as an equivalent for cc is no
Pietro Gagliardi wrote:
- Modify the kernel (it is based on Unix - even Microsoft says so)
Sure it is...in the same way that VMS is based on UNIX (which means not
at all)
>> For example the
>> role of make as an equivalent for cc is not self-evident for a
>> traditional normal OS-user.
>come again?
i thought it meant that he always types in cc commands on unix.
of course you could do that too with 8c/8l but normally on plan 9 i
create a mkfile except for the tin
On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 10:12 PM, erik quanstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> there's not access to the network device per ce, but the network works
> fine for me. this is what i needed to do to connect to plan 9
> networks
>
>1. edit /lib/ndb/auth and /lib/ndb/local as appropriate.
>
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 6:49 AM, Russ Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > anyway, i might have missed a report about this
> > from someone else, but does anyone else
> > find that when doing a longish mk, the terminal
> > output will occasionally freeze, but is brought
> > back very quickly by inte
My caps lock problem is gone with this! Thanks Russ (nevermind my other
message regarding it still starting in X11... I'm extra-scatterbrained
today)
Dave
On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 10:00 AM, Russ Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have not bothered to create a new package,
> but there is a new bin
> Same recipe works here. But I've no idea why the rm /net/cs is
> necessary - can anyone put me out of my misery?
There are a bunch of rough edges that need to be fixed.
This is one of them. 9vx provides a #I/cs so that you
can do things like hget without starting cs. But it can't
translate aut
It's more fun to use 9vx in the fullscreen mode to get a complete
Plan9 experience.
Press to toggle fullscreen mode.
Patch attached.
Thanks for 9vx. It makes things a lot easier :)
-- Abhishek
diff -r 9007574b0ca2 src/9vx/x11/x11-kernel.c
--- a/src/9vx/x11/x11-kernel.c Sun Jun 29 22:24:21 20
now that you've explained the cs issue things are much clearer. i can
confirm that I have successfully booted a 9vx terminal off a remote
plan9 server using a small modification to factotum.
the original boot process failed with:
password:
!
authentication failed (auth_proxy rpc write: bootes: Co
on .10, I can run venti/venti. on .11, it locks up 9vx quite
thoroughly after it prints init If you resize the window it is
filled with garbage. Under strace I can see it taking the timer
interrupts.
Linux xcpu 2.6.25 #6 SMP Tue May 27 09:46:16 PDT 2008 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
Sorry I don't
> now compile 8.factotum and copy it as 9vx/src/9vx/factotum.9 and recompile
> 9vx.
err, make that vx32/src/9vx/factotum.9. i'm compiling against the
latest mercurial, but there's not reason why it shouldn't just work
with .11 and .10
erik quanstrom wrote:
is not available under Plan 9. (Or is it?) As there is no simple
introduction to Plan 9 new users will just go the easy way and get
Windows or Linux.
lack of an introduction is not the problem. not being unix
is the problem.
Looking too much like UNIX while acting dif
On Jun 30, 2008, at 9:48 AM, bblochl wrote:
Pietro Gagliardi schrieb:
If people say "Plan 9 is too hard to use" they will allocate blame
to Rob Pike's rio before reading his tirade on other windowing
systems (which you can find at http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/doc/88/1-07.ps.gz)
.
With thi
RMS has the power to turn people away from "bad" technology. Remember
that now.
On Jun 30, 2008, at 9:46 AM, bblochl wrote:
Pietro Gagliardi schrieb:
People do acknowledge the new free systems. Unfortunately, RMS got
them off it in a microsecond when 3e came out:
http://www.gnu.org/philo
I do this:
fn build {
8c $1^.c && 8l -o $1 $1^.8 && rm $1^.8
}
acmef sieve.c # acmef opens acme with fixed-width font in one column
build sieve
sieve 2053
when I need to build a one-file program.
That's another good argument against Plan 9
On Jun 30, 2008, at 10:07 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Are we talking about the same thing? Pietro's link is for an old
paper by Rob Pike talking about the mux windowing system. There
aren't really any examples.
Much of the paper still applies to rio. From mux to rio few changes
were made
> on .10, I can run venti/venti. on .11, it locks up 9vx quite
> thoroughly after it prints init If you resize the window it is
> filled with garbage. Under strace I can see it taking the timer
> interrupts.
>
> Linux xcpu 2.6.25 #6 SMP Tue May 27 09:46:16 PDT 2008 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
>
> erik quanstrom wrote:
>>> is not available under Plan 9. (Or is it?) As there is no simple
>>> introduction to Plan 9 new users will just go the easy way and get
>>> Windows or Linux.
>>
>> lack of an introduction is not the problem. not being unix
>> is the problem.
>>
>
> Looking too much
On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 7:21 PM, erik quanstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> this slashdot article almost asks for cpu
> functionality for plan 9 by name.
>
actually, this the scenario for which we designed xcpu, almost exactly.
Mount, start up, disconnect, come back later ... I've used it this w
On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:56:10 EDT "Russ Cox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > The native version is different from the x11 in the following ways:
> > - Top right acme `term' window doesn't open
> > - The top row in acme doesn't show win before newcol
>
> Haven't tried to reproduce these. Are you s
> It's more fun to use 9vx in the fullscreen mode to get a complete
> Plan9 experience.
>
> Press to toggle fullscreen mode.
> Patch attached.
Checked F11 code into hg. Instead of sending the window
manager a "make me fullscreen" request like your code did,
the code I added (taken from p9p) jus
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Russ Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If you invoke it with the -A flag, then it will go into a
> sleep loop on panic (-A stands for abort, but that didn't
> work very well on OS X). You can then attach with gdb
> and get a stack trace or look at what the other t
Hello,
I have a WYSE Winterm 9150SE [1]. It is a terminal
running a AMD Geode GX processor, with 256MB of RAM.
It is meant to run Windows XP Embedded, wich is located
into a 256MB ROM, but it can also boot from network
via PXE.
Using PXE, I am successfully running a Plan 9 terminal
to my Plan 9 a
If you can wait a couple days I'll have some time later in the
week to port this over to OpenBSD.
> I'm currently trying to get 9vx work on OpenBSD-4.3 (i386, 750Mhz,
> 256MB RAM), but each time I want to start 9vx I get the following:
>
> $ ./9vx.FreeBSD -u glenda
> Abort Trap
> $
>
> Of cours
I'm currently trying to get 9vx work on OpenBSD-4.3 (i386, 750Mhz,
256MB RAM), but each time I want to start 9vx I get the following:
$ ./9vx.FreeBSD -u glenda
Abort Trap
$
Of course FreeBSD Binary Emulation has been turned on using /etc/sysctl.conf.
Furthermore I tried also to use the Linux bin
> 9grid% yesterday -d util.c
> diff /n/dump/2008/0630/sys/src/cmd/auth/factotum/util.c
> /sys/src/cmd/auth/factotum/util.c
> 33c33
> < return authdial(net, authdom);
> ---
>> ;//return authdial(net, authdom);
> 9grid%
Does it work to set csremoved=1 in src/9vx/devip.c inst
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 3:15 PM, Iruata Souza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Tim Wiess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> If you can wait a couple days I'll have some time later in the
>> week to port this over to OpenBSD.
>>
>>
>>> I'm currently trying to get 9vx work on
> Looking too much like UNIX while acting differently is part of the
> problem. However, the bigger part is that the existing documentation
> can be a bit daunting for someone who is new to Plan 9, and still has
> only a vague notion of how the system works. Like the UNIX man pages,
> the doc
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Tim Wiess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If you can wait a couple days I'll have some time later in the
> week to port this over to OpenBSD.
>
>
>> I'm currently trying to get 9vx work on OpenBSD-4.3 (i386, 750Mhz,
>> 256MB RAM), but each time I want to start 9vx I ge
Thanks for your fast replies.
I can't help you coding/porting but if you need some help for testing,
drop me a line.
Thanks,
Malik
> On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Tim Wiess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> If you can wait a couple days I'll have some time later in the
>> week to port this over to OpenBSD.
>>
>>
>>> I'm currently trying to get 9vx work on OpenBSD-4.3 (i386, 750Mhz,
>>> 256MB RAM), but each time I want to start
This is a very good point. I mostly learned Unix in a corporate
environment, but the same logic holds: somebody else had set
up and maintained the systems.
// I'm afraid there's not much we can do about this.
Other, obviously, than getting uni types to use it there. Plan 9
(like Inferno) has quit
I have not even started such thing, but, if you go for it and want help,
count me in :)
> I've been thinking of writing a "Plan 9 for Dummies" style thing;
> Nemo's book is excellent but definitely aimed at someone most
> interested in writing code immediately. Basically stealing the format
>
> Does it work to set csremoved=1 in src/9vx/devip.c instead?
I can confirm that this works, with the benefit of using secstore
instead of prompting for my password.
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Francisco J Ballesteros <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> I have not even started such thing, but, if you go for it and want help,
> count me in :)
And I would read it! :)
--
Tom Lieber
http://AllTom.com/
>> Does it work to set csremoved=1 in src/9vx/devip.c instead?
>
> I can confirm that this works, with the benefit of using secstore
> instead of prompting for my password.
Okay, done. Thanks.
Russ
Hi 9fans,
I'm writing this in an "open letter" style because I find eric's original
post and the follow-up quite "on-topic" with respect to my unsuccessful
Plan 9 experience. To provide context, let me describe myself as a "serious
hobbyist," which means I know my way around Windows and at lea
well, Eris, it is quite possible that you're right. It is also
possible that you never quite got it.
Or both are possible.
ron
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 2:12 PM, Eris Discordia
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Fossil/Venti, however brilliant it may look like to the code junkie, does
> not offer anything for me but added complexity.
i'm using p9p venti on linux, and it's been a total breeze to
configure and administer. the utili
> Plan 9 neither fulfills
> previous functions nor defines new ones for any "end user" or even
> "hobbyist," except perhaps the most sturdy of them.
this blog-style opinion piece does not offer anything constructive.
for example, would utf-8 qualify as a functionality that didn't exist
before pl
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 3:42 PM, Skip Tavakkolian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> P.S. Heck, this "is" some sad commentary.
>
> what's sad is that unless there's a dummy's guide to
> something, that something is not considered a success.
>
Its worse than that Skip -- I imagine many would rank App
I just pulled the hg and built 9vx from sources.
venti copy has not died yet. :-)
ron
> Besides, isn't not being UNIX one of the prominent features of Plan 9?
tautology, no? to be plan 9 it must be different. if it were not, it would be
unix.
- erik
this guide was writen at coraid by michael covington.
the document proclaims itself to be:
This is a quick-start guide to the user interface of the
Plan 9 operating system based on my own experiences getting
started at Coraid.
[...]
This is not a technical
crap methodology versus doing something clever under the hood. You
can't be a success unless you have an animated 3D GUI consuming most
of your CPU resources and expending all sorts of power.
That couldn't be farther from truth, at least in my case. No one wants to
waste their computer's time
this blog-style opinion piece does not offer anything constructive.
for example, would utf-8 qualify as a functionality that didn't exist
before plan9?
The fact the UTF-8 was first "implemented" on Plan 9 has nothing to do with
Plan 9's funtionality as an OS. Similarly, the fact that Windows is
Not a very kind comment. Though, it is possible that it's true.
What was there for me to understand about Plan 9 that I did not? Barring a
"mystical" bond with its exquisite kernel, of course.
--On Monday, June 30, 2008 1:01 PM -0700 ron minnich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
well, Eris, it is
A very effective "backup" method for work on your "desktop:"
1. Organize your "creative work" when you "create" them, plan beforehand
2. Copy/synchronize the collection to an external hard disk and/or a
solid-state storage device which you detach from your "desktop" computer
after you turn it
The fact the UTF-8 was first "implemented" on Plan 9 has nothing
to do with Plan 9's funtionality as an OS.
Not true. The ability to adapt the system quickly in response to a
changing standards situation made a critical difference in having
UTF-8 rather than a weaker proposal accepted by X/Open
> The fact the UTF-8 was first "implemented" on Plan 9 has nothing to do with
> Plan 9's funtionality as an OS.
it seems like you are avoiding the point on purpose.
i don't think you can pick up a kernel with tweezers and make
a bunch of abstract statements about it. and so i think the fact
tha
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 12:32 AM, Eris Discordia
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> crap methodology versus doing something clever under the hood. You
>> can't be a success unless you have an animated 3D GUI consuming most
>> of your CPU resources and expending all sorts of power.
>
> That couldn't be f
> Its worse than that Skip -- I imagine many would rank Apple's time
> machine greater than venti just because it puts a pretty GUI on top of
> crap methodology versus doing something clever under the hood.
Pretty GUI doesn't hurt but it is the ease of use that makes
time machine popular. Kudos
// Systems research? Did you actually "research" how a normal user used their
// computer? Did you even try to guess how a normal user used their system?
// Did you do that and end up with a technical manual whose prime example for
// backup strategy involves a "Jukebox?"
You clearly have a ver
> By the way, I provided a description of my person to avoid "dummy" labels.
> I may well be a "dummy" in your league but that doesn't mean I'm unable of
> reading a normal technical manual. I can do and have done that, on Linux,
> FreeBSD, and Plan 9.
you've missed my point. most of the dummi
Many of the ideas have been/will be applied to other
systems, and that will affects end users as well. It's just that there's
no need to use the same system for doing research and for, say,
browsing the web.
Having said that, but for web browsing, I'm quite
happy using Plan 9 as an end user that m
> Pretty GUI may attract people initially but in the end it is
> really about the ease of use. Most people just want to use a
> computer, not learn all about it (just as they want to drive
> a car and not look under the hood). A "Plan9 for Dummies"
> book will be great but that won't help all
Most people just want to use a
computer, not learn all about it (just as they want to drive
a car and not look under the hood).
And Windows is the Chevrolet|Ford|Toyota|\* for the common man.
We are not the common man. Buy a bus pass and push off.
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 6:20 PM, Eris Discordia
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Barring a "mystical" bond with its exquisite kernel, of course.
>
it seems you have done much kernel programming, eh?
iru
> Plan 9 is not for end users. Plan 9 is for programmers.
--
Federico G. Benavento
On Jun 30, 2008, at 1:34 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Now, before I set quill to parchment (or fingers to keyboard as may
be), has anyone else started something like this?
I was planning on doing something of the sort...
On Jun 30, 2008, at 5:46 PM, erik quanstrom wrote:
this guide was writen
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 2:20 PM, Eris Discordia
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Not a very kind comment. Though, it is possible that it's true.
>
> What was there for me to understand about Plan 9 that I did not? Barring a
> "mystical" bond with its exquisite kernel, of course.
>
Let's pretend I want
There have been similar efforts in the past, but this one is *really*
nice. Concise, clear and covers basic stuff but fast enough.
Do you have the troff source available? That would make it easier for
people to expand it further. Also I would be happy to host an html
version at http://doc.cat-v.or
OK, it is hard to get this to repeat, and I lost it last time. But
after running venti a while
and doing a venti copy with vx32 as the dst I eventually get a double
sleep in the
io kproc.
I'll try to get it to fail again :-)
ron
> I added devsd and wrote an sd loopback yesterday afternoon.
> It worked pretty well except that when I ran fdisk,
> /dev/sd00/data disappeared. I was going to debug that
> before saying anything.
Here's the fix for the fdisk problem:
/sys/src/cmd/disk/prep/edit.c:503,508 - edit.c:503,509
I have Ubuntu on a VPS (on Xen) and I'd like to install a Plan 9
server using 9vx. 9vx tip compiles, but segfaults after the "256M
memory" line (as does the precompiled binary, in the same place). I am
tunneling to local X11 on OS X 10.5.3.
I don't know how to debug this properly, but here is gdb
Hello. I found a few fonts from /lib/font (Courier, for aesthetic
reasons, and erik's vera, for its complete Unicode conformance) that
I'd like to make available to troff. Is there any way to do this? I'll
name the files myself (Other-Courier and Bitstream-Vera, perhaps).
Thanks.
Not true. The ability to adapt the system quickly in response to a
changing standards situation made a critical difference in having
UTF-8 rather than a weaker proposal accepted by X/Open and hence ISO.
Plan 9's "historical" role is not in question. That same book I quoted in
my original post s
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