Re: case study - journalctl - where is logger output
On Thu, 2014-09-11 at 16:16 -0400, Tom H wrote: > On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 2:04 PM, Balint Szigeti wrote: > > > > today I installed the rsyslog and enable it then disabled (then masked) > > systemd-journal-flush, systemd-journald services. Plus I disabled > > systemd-journald.socket as well. > > It broke my system. After I closed the sudo session I could gain root access > > plus I couldn't start any program only forks for the existed ones (like > > gnome terminal). > > The reboot didn't work. The box just didn't start up. :( (just remark - > > systemd is not depends on itself) > > I disabled all of the journal service and socket units and rebooted > without a hitch. It was in an X-less VM though so perhaps things go > awry when booting a DE (I don't see why it whould). > > > > I booted into runlevel 1 (yeeeah - runlevel doesn't exist on systemd - I > > wanted to say rescue.target) and redo the mask and enable everything. > > I boot into runlevel 1 when I use "1" on the kernel cmdline. > > > > I've noticed the rsyslog doesn't listen to the system logging. > > > > I've run logger command but I don't find it in the log. I've checked the > > journalctl and /var/log/messages file as well. > > > > # logger -t hello > > # journalctl |grep hello > > # grep hello /var/log/messages > > # > > Same here. > > Is journald supposed to be turned off when using systemd? Why do you > want it off? You can set "Storage=volatile" in > "/etc/systemd/journald.conf" and 1) you'll only have rsyslog logs > across reboots and 2) the journald logs will be written to the > "/run/log/journal/" tmpfs so journald will simply collect logs for > rsyslog. I didn't know that. Thank you very much. Balint -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
On Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:37:13 -0600 Kevin Fenzi wrote: > Well, sorry you think so. I think systemd is far from perfect, but it's > a good deal better than what we had before. Do you know of a place where I can find the analysis behind this assessment, or is it just your personal opinion? For me, the limited gains, are far exceeded by the additional risk and complexities that comes as part of the bundle. I'd really like to see your analysis as to why systemd is better for your use case. Then I'll tell you in detail why it doesn't at all improve my situation. > I'd say the chances of Fedora switching away from systemd at this point > are pretty much 0, so if you can't learn to live with it and help > improve it, I wish you the best of luck with whatever distro you end up > using. As the only alternative is Slackware, one might as well stick around. Since I'm stuck with RHEL at work, I relly haven't got much choice in desktop distro. -- //Wegge -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Thunderbird 24.8 and 31 never reached Fedora?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Steven Rosenberg: > I have Thunderbird 31.1.0 in Fedora 20. I think the update came > through yesterday. That is what I said as well in my previous email: > Thunderbird 31.1.0 is already in fc20 (fc19 still comes with > Thunderbird 24.7). but I was specifically wondering about the two previous versions 24.8 and 31.0. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJUEqysAAoJEG58zmw5nc+vWxEQAKq7Pcf4cDIATSJrwrdTq1Y3 Vub6tFbrGgoF6gdqDZw4DDFRd+Kf6hTlFW07nzmLWbbhYwoSCocImhHsV+sFKVfy jAucHsP9i95e0vHVY147s0n8SG1dge+As1l6I4wCQXTE//7b198bJKnWSdwH/mFE NxX2BXMK71R8Of4cBS/41udiIzsNRN8piUeo0izRA3TsKLf0lLSQMb+gxgdmj1v2 TBKLHGhMaiOGmTLbVqKA9Dk+XCQGj6dNSkxQ1eiMMQRW7AouKrSS2khhZxwqe+8T tRRuZ9LKpASh7XlybBJGyI9Po4xdmt5ctotZHgQ3wA6V3hVep4TpFagsCdVdQ3AY kVNb22vkdW17JgirimNinr2rj3ae6IkkG2b8trYMU9Nc4lBNmI/XebJBFG/cuKY4 jtwrBD812qo4yhpPrawKvPN9Cz1YHOiuBfso2172MYroSxOa09WPkpDhTJftKL6r F3mDesrws8BXyM3lgazcVgCzzKHsutL/Xfdony8VYLqD5wQi0Z2GKZglXWpqaaPk xa2r7s+XxtHuslH17ru1CIGsqUVmbkGMBVZ8NrHT3mE71Lj3SYlZb3CoFpOnvOsd igGfHBOSopOxFvMVhWZ3e3wNqqjDWRzs/oBztlFXJcO5WFrjfhoUWHgEPCRxTMO7 DR8+oCpcv0B2YHMx5DaD =nyfR -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
On 12.09.2014 10:06, Anders Wegge Keller wrote: > On Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:37:13 -0600 > Kevin Fenzi wrote: > >> Well, sorry you think so. I think systemd is far from perfect, but it's >> a good deal better than what we had before. > > Do you know of a place where I can find the analysis behind this > assessment, or is it just your personal opinion? For me, the limited gains, > are far exceeded by the additional risk and complexities that comes as part > of the bundle. I'd really like to see your analysis as to why systemd is > better for your use case. Then I'll tell you in detail why it doesn't at all > improve my situation. In this respect, can you and mister Ihnat provide us a comparison study? poma -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Thunderbird 24.8 and 31 never reached Fedora?
On 12.09.2014 10:19, Joonas wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA512 > > Steven Rosenberg: >> I have Thunderbird 31.1.0 in Fedora 20. I think the update came >> through yesterday. > > That is what I said as well in my previous email: > >> Thunderbird 31.1.0 is already in fc20 (fc19 still comes with >> Thunderbird 24.7). > > but I was specifically wondering about the two previous versions 24.8 > and 31.0. What do you wonder about? It is good that you have the latest version at all. Fedora ain't a professional packaging service, it's more like a best effort related to practice. poma -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014, Ralf Corsepius wrote: On 09/12/2014 04:13 AM, Bill Oliver wrote: And I'm not saying that it's all bad -- open source systems go the way developers want it to go, I'd consider this to be an urban legend, which may have applied in the past. These days open source systems big business and go the way, the companies behind them drive it. This is not limited to systemd but applies many major SW components, too. We users are passengers without any influence on the directions Linux and OSS is taking. Ralf You may be right. It sort of seems that Ubuntu and Android really changed the climate. My perspective mostly comes from working on a couple of small apps, driven by a small user community. billo -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
On 12.09.2014 05:57, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > On 09/12/2014 04:13 AM, Bill Oliver wrote: > >> And I'm not saying that it's all bad -- open source systems go the way >> developers want it to go, > I'd consider this to be an urban legend, which may have applied in the > past. These days open source systems big business and go the way, the > companies behind them drive it. This is not limited to systemd but > applies many major SW components, too. > > We users are passengers without any influence on the directions Linux > and OSS is taking. > > Ralf > Let me tell you something you already know. The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place, and I don't care how tough you are, it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard you hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward; how much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done! Now, if you know what you're worth, then go out and get what you're worth. But you gotta be willing to take the hits, and not pointing fingers saying you ain't where you wanna be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that and that ain't you. You're better than that! Rocky Balboa -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 10:06:59 +0200 Anders Wegge Keller wrote: > Since > I'm stuck with RHEL at work, I relly haven't got much choice in desktop > distro. Yep. I run Fedora, not because it is the best distro (I'd have to go looking for that), but because our software has to run on RedHat, and Fedora serves as a sort of inverse canary in the coalmine. When I drop dead, they'll know RedHat will soon become too toxic for users to survive :-). -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Fw: Urgent problem in TCP/Ip C programming!!!
Thanks, Jyotishmaan Ray Moderator Of Spirituality-Paradise Group http://yahoogroups.com/group/Spirituality-Paradise Are You Spiritually Aware !!! Are You Enjoying Yourself !!! See What All You Had Been Missing Please Join Immediately By Sending A Blank Mail @ spirituality-paradise-subscr...@yahoogroups.com On Friday, September 12, 2014 8:11 PM, Jyotishmaan Ray wrote: Hello All Fedora Lonux TCP/IP experts, Hi!! This is an urgent issue, which needs to be resolved at the earliest time!!! Given platform : Fedora Linux OS(free open source), Version 16, with GCC (GNU compiler) and 2 C language programs, where one is jc.c which is a client program, and jsvc.c , which is a server program. Problem: Both the programs compiled with warnings, which I had ignored. Most importantly, the server program is failing to bind the process to its port. Reasons, which could not be explored yet, and not known to my knowledge. Issues: (1) On my system, in fedora linux environment, I failed to create two terminals, for executing two programs as a cient and and another as a server. Can we not have two terminals at a time in one fedora linux environment. (2) Kindly let me know why the server program is failing at the point of bind(...) function call. What is wrong wioth my parameters, or anything else if I have missed ?? Kindly let me know!! (3) Is it necessary to execute both the client and server programs in two different systems in a LAN. I had earlier run both the processes in one system, however long time back, hence I forgot the exact hardware specfication ( that had in the system). But I remember it was DEC System, having all the GUI interface, in which I could have as many terminals as I wanted. Note : In the given environment, of Linux fedora operating system, I can nt have more than one terminal ..? Any ideas, why there is such a limitation..? Is it that because of the stand along installation etc. Kindly reply me all the answers, with server program binding well and exceutes such that, it goes into listening mode and the client program connects to it and finally sends a message to it before closing the connection. Thank you in advance, Jyotishmaan Ray Thanks, Jyotishmaan Ray Moderator Of Spirituality-Paradise Group http://yahoogroups.com/group/Spirituality-Paradise Are You Spiritually Aware !!! Are You Enjoying Yourself !!! See What All You Had Been Missing Please Join Immediately By Sending A Blank Mail @ spirituality-paradise-subscr...@yahoogroups.com jc.c Description: Binary data jsvc.c Description: Binary data -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
On 09/12/2014 02:37 PM, poma wrote: On 12.09.2014 05:57, Ralf Corsepius wrote: On 09/12/2014 04:13 AM, Bill Oliver wrote: And I'm not saying that it's all bad -- open source systems go the way developers want it to go, I'd consider this to be an urban legend, which may have applied in the past. These days open source systems big business and go the way, the companies behind them drive it. This is not limited to systemd but applies many major SW components, too. We users are passengers without any influence on the directions Linux and OSS is taking. Ralf Let me tell you something you already know. The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. ... Then let me turn this story around: Where would systemd be if Poettering wasn't RH-employed and if RH wasn't backing him? Nowhere. It would be an anecdotal footnote in Linux history, nobody would remember. Conversely, it's entirely silly and arrogant to tell people to "implement something else" and better. Unless RH decides to turn down systemd, this will not happen to come true. Ralf -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Urgent TCP/IP C Programming
Hello All Fedora Lonux TCP/IP experts, Hi!! This is an urgent issue, which needs to be resolved at the earliest time!!! Given platform : Fedora Linux OS(free open source), Version 16, with GCC (GNU compiler) and 2 C language programs, where one is jc.c which is a client program, and jsvc.c , which is a server program. Problem: Both the programs compiled with warnings, which I had ignored. Most importantly, the server program is failing to bind the process to its port. Reasons, which could not be explored yet, and not known to my knowledge. Issues: (1) On my system, in fedora linux environment, I failed to create two terminals, for executing two programs as a cient and and another as a server. Can we not have two terminals at a time in one fedora linux environment. (2) Kindly let me know why the server program is failing at the point of bind(...) function call. What is wrong wioth my parameters, or anything else if I have missed ?? Kindly let me know!! (3) Is it necessary to execute both the client and server programs in two different systems in a LAN. I had earlier run both the processes in one system, however long time back, hence I forgot the exact hardware specfication ( that had in the system). But I remember it was DEC System, having all the GUI interface, in which I could have as many terminals as I wanted. Note : In the given environment, of Linux fedora operating system, I can nt have more than one terminal ..? Any ideas, why there is such a limitation..? Is it that because of the stand along installation etc. Kindly reply me all the answers, with server program binding well and exceutes such that, it goes into listening mode and the client program connects to it and finally sends a message to it before closing the connection. Thank you in advance, Jyotishmaan Ray Thanks, Jyotishmaan Ray Moderator Of Spirituality-Paradise Group http://yahoogroups.com/group/Spirituality-Paradise Are You Spiritually Aware !!! Are You Enjoying Yourself !!! See What All You Had Been Missing Please Join Immediately By Sending A Blank Mail @ spirituality-paradise-subscr...@yahoogroups.com jc.c Description: Binary data jsvc.c Description: Binary data -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: F20: mouse cursor has 1" x 1/4" rectangle attached
On 09/09/2014 11:47 AM, poma wrote: On 09.09.2014 17:14, sean darcy wrote: On 09/09/2014 11:05 AM, poma wrote: On 09.09.2014 16:13, sean darcy wrote: On an acer latop with XFCE, the mouse cursor is trailed by a rectangle about 1/2" below and offset to the right. In Settings -> Mouse and Touchpad -> Themes I can change the size of cursor, which doesn't affect the size of the rectangle. How do I get rid of this rectangle? sean $ lspci -knn | grep -A3 VGA poma lspci -knn | grep -A3 VGA 00:01.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Kaveri [Radeon R5 Graphics] [1002:1318] Subsystem: Acer Incorporated [ALI] Device [1025:0864] Kernel driver in use: radeon Kernel modules: radeon I've installed and switched to a new cursor theme. Rectangle still there. sean http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-driver-ati/2014-September/026621.html Rawhide/Fedora 22 http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=717 https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/work/tasks/5517/717/Fedora-Live-Xfce-x86_64-rawhide-20140909.iso https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org//work/tasks/5517/717/livecd.log kernel-3.17.0-0.rc4.git0.1.fc22.x86_64 xorg-x11-server-Xorg-1.16.0-7.fc22.x86_64 xorg-x11-drv-ati-7.4.0-3.fc22.x86_64 mesa-dri-drivers-10.4-0.devel.4.1f184bc.fc22.x86_64 libdrm-2.4.56-2.fc22.x86_64 ~ Fedora 20 kernel-3.16.2-200.fc20.x86_64 xorg-x11-server-Xorg-1.14.4-11.fc20.x86_64 xorg-x11-drv-ati-7.2.0-3.20131101git3b38701.fc20.x86_64 mesa-dri-drivers-10.1.5-1.20140607.fc20.x86_64 libdrm-2.4.54-1.fc20.x86_64 poma For anyone who has the kaveri chipset, here's how I made it work: 1. for kernel 3.16.2, F20 is in koji. 2. librm - add the kaveri pciids, and rebuild. The libdrm in koji does not have the pciid. 3. mesa - same as libdrm 4. xorg-x11-drv-ati - get xorg-x11-drv-ati-7.4.0-3.fc22.x86_64 from koji. This does not have the new pciids. Get xf86-video-ati from git. Copy: src/ati_pciids_gen.h src/pcidb/ati_pciids.csv src/radeon_chipinfo_gen.h src/radeon_chipset_gen.h src/radeon_pci_chipset_gen.h src/radeon_pci_device_match_gen.h to the rpm source. Simply patching didn't work for some reason. Rebuild the rpm for f20, but disable glamor. sean -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
ps -ef stack overflow Fedora 20
Hello, Please look to the attached pages (4) in .pdf format acrobatreader the ps -ef under fedora20 gives a stack overflow and I gues that therefor I have a lot of problems on my system. Greetings , Ger van Dijck. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014, Ralf Corsepius wrote: ... Then let me turn this story around: Where would systemd be if Poettering wasn't RH-employed and if RH wasn't backing him? Nowhere. It would be an anecdotal footnote in Linux history, nobody would remember. Conversely, it's entirely silly and arrogant to tell people to "implement something else" and better. Unless RH decides to turn down systemd, this will not happen to come true. Ralf If a project's prevailing attitude is that it is "entirely silly and arrogant" for users to express their opinions, that does not bode well for the future of the product. billo -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
2014-09-12 11:06 GMT+03:00 Anders Wegge Keller : > Do you know of a place where I can find the analysis behind this > assessment, or is it just your personal opinion? The recent initsystem debate [1] from Debian pretty exhaustively explores the pros and cons of many major init system options. While the needs of Fedora differ slightly, a lot of the discussion applies here, too. [1] https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/ -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 09/11/2014 06:33 PM, Dave Ihnat wrote: > On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 04:30:11PM -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote: >> There are plenty of complaints that can be *legitimately* >> leveled against systemd. The correct way to do this ... > > With all due respect, this isn't a matter of filing bug reports. > > I've been working on Unix since around 1980; I was teaching Unix > internals at Bell Labs in Naperville in 1982. I've discussed > Ritchie streams with Ritchie, and hacked the Unix kernel back then. > I knocked out cut and paste--maybe nothing that stunning, but it > cost me a lot when I did it. I know and understand what the > Unix--and, by extension, Linux--philosophy is. > > I've also worked on DOS, and Windows, since their inception, and > many other operating systems before and after both. I've seen some > sensible decisions--although with either DOS or Windows, I'm hard > pressed right now to think of them--and some really stupid ideas, > such as the Registry. > > Systemd is one of the stupid ideas. It flies in the face of > everything that makes sense in Unix or Linux, and incorporates some > of the most amazingly bad ideas Microsoft ever promulgated. A > single point of failure, an Swiss army knife of totally disparate > tasks incorporated in a single process just because we can... > I really wish people would stop repeating this falsehood. systemd is *not* a single process. It's a name for a collection of small processes that *collectively* are called systemd. There's no single point of failure that's significantly more problematic than pid 1 has ever been. > I didn't pay attention to this until recently; now that I've dug > into it a bit more, I'm both horrified and astonished that it's > reached the level of acceptance it has. This is an amazingly > terrible concept, with the unbelievable adjunct that it's been > accepted by major Linux distros. Unchecked, this could be the stake > in the heart of Linux. Those who don't know history are doomed to > repeat it. > > Sincerely, -- Dave Ihnat dih...@dminet.com > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 iEYEARECAAYFAlQTHEEACgkQeiVVYja6o6M0vACdHSRv0ELVID86oY+UWmqXyZUw 1koAnRRyyw8uo3OpFmuiJKcTeZSEOCX/ =eV2u -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 12:16:01PM -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > I really wish people would stop repeating this falsehood. systemd is > *not* a single process. "Process" as in "procedure for operation". -- Dave Ihnat dih...@dminet.com -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: ps -ef stack overflow Fedora 20
On Friday, September 12, 2014 05:45:21 PM Ger van Dijck wrote: > Please look to the attached pages (4) in .pdf format acrobatreader the > ps -ef under fedora20 gives a stack overflow and I gues that therefor I > have a lot of problems on my system. I don't see any PDF. I wouldn't open an attachment from a mailing list on a proprietary PDF reader anyways. I recommend you to paste the log on one of the online pastebins like http://fpaste.org/ -- Regards, Sudhir Khanger, http://sudhirkhanger.com http://github.com/donniezazen Fingerprint: 49DD C204 6035 CD92 6949 3BFD EE67 D28C 9F14 497B -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 10:06:59 +0200 Anders Wegge Keller wrote: > On Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:37:13 -0600 > Kevin Fenzi wrote: > > > Well, sorry you think so. I think systemd is far from perfect, but > > it's a good deal better than what we had before. > > Do you know of a place where I can find the analysis behind this > assessment, or is it just your personal opinion? I was stating my opinion. Based on almost 10 years working on Fedora, 25 or so years working on computers. > For me, the limited > gains, are far exceeded by the additional risk and complexities that > comes as part of the bundle. I'd really like to see your analysis as > to why systemd is better for your use case. Then I'll tell you in > detail why it doesn't at all improve my situation. I already posted something like this in the last long, mostly useless systemd thread in here. :) From that email: "A few that I really appreciate: If you did a 'service stop foobar' it would try and stop foobar, but if the pid file was stale, foobar started other stuff that wasn't tied to foobar as a parent, or any other of a number of situations I have run into, parts of foobar would still be running. With systemd, if you stop a unit, it's really stopped. All of it. If you started a sysvinit service foobar and wanted to look at it's output, you had to hope the needed info was also in a log file or kill the service and restart it in some non standard mode to watch it's output. With systemd/journald, ALL output is saved and easy to query. If for some reason you had to modify a complex sysvinit script, you then would have to merge in all changes with package updates over time. With systemd you can use a .d directory to add/change things without overwriting the provided systemd unit file." I'll add in no particular order: * unit files are vastly simple to write. I created some unit files for some irc bots I run in about 5minutes. This would have taken copy and pasting bunches of stuff to make a sysvinit script that wouldn't have worked as well. * Setting some buggy service to restart on failure is trivial to do. * Log querying with journalctl is great. I can easily look at the messages from the previous boot (no matter when it was) or the one before that. I can look at just output from one service, etc etc. Anyhow, I could go on, but I think at least some of the folks on this list (Not sure if you are one of them) have made up their minds, and nothing I can say will convince them otherwise. In that case, we should probibly just agree to disagree and move on. If not, I am happy to help folks track down and report bugs with systemd, or if you have questions on how to do something in particular or if there's some case that could be improved. > > I'd say the chances of Fedora switching away from systemd at this > > point are pretty much 0, so if you can't learn to live with it and > > help improve it, I wish you the best of luck with whatever distro > > you end up using. > > As the only alternative is Slackware, one might as well stick > around. Since I'm stuck with RHEL at work, I relly haven't got much > choice in desktop distro. Fair enough, do as you like indeed. However, I don't see that it helps anyone to have a "systemd is horrible" thread every month that consists of bunches of people saying how much they hate it without any positive outcome. ;) kevin signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 12:16:01 -0400 Stephen Gallagher wrote: > It's a name for a collection of small > processes that *collectively* are called systemd. One of which is actually named systemd and incorporates a vast collection of bloated nonsense. I wish people would quit asserting that systemd is not bloated simply because there is more than one piece. That's like saying the pyramids aren't giant monumental works because they are actually just a collection of much smaller blocks. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 10:56:34 +0200 poma wrote: > On 12.09.2014 10:06, Anders Wegge Keller wrote: > > On Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:37:13 -0600 > > Kevin Fenzi wrote: > > > >> Well, sorry you think so. I think systemd is far from perfect, but > >> it's a good deal better than what we had before. > > > > Do you know of a place where I can find the analysis behind this > > assessment, or is it just your personal opinion? For me, the > > limited gains, are far exceeded by the additional risk and > > complexities that comes as part of the bundle. I'd really like to > > see your analysis as to why systemd is better for your use case. > > Then I'll tell you in detail why it doesn't at all improve my > > situation. > > In this respect, can you and mister Ihnat provide us a comparison > study? I know of no such study. I'm not sure what or how you could even do something around this. It's a technical decision... kevin signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 16:07:35 + (UTC) Bill Oliver wrote: > On Fri, 12 Sep 2014, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > > ... > > > > Then let me turn this story around: Where would systemd be if > > Poettering wasn't RH-employed and if RH wasn't backing him? > > Nowhere. It would be an anecdotal footnote in Linux history, nobody > > would remember. > > > > Conversely, it's entirely silly and arrogant to tell people to > > "implement something else" and better. Unless RH decides to turn > > down systemd, this will not happen to come true. > > > > Ralf > > > > > > If a project's prevailing attitude is that it is "entirely silly and > arrogant" for users to express their opinions, that does not bode > well for the future of the product. "the project" has never said any such thing. to answer Ralf, I think Fedora would still be using systemd if Lennart wasn't employed by Red Hat. I think the only relevance that has is that his employment has allowed him to work on systemd. After all we were using upstart before that, which was developed at canonical. (And RHEL6 still is). kevin signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Urgent TCP/IP C Programming
On 09/12/2014 07:59 AM, Jyotishmaan Ray issued this missive:
Hello All Fedora Lonux TCP/IP experts,
Hi!!
This is an urgent issue, which needs to be resolved at the earliest time!!!
Given platform : Fedora Linux OS(free open source), Version 16, with GCC
(GNU compiler) and 2 C language programs, where one is jc.c which is a
client program, and jsvc.c , which is a server program.
Fedora 16 is long, LONG dead (like three years dead). The current
release is Fedora 20, with Fedora 21 being released soon.
Problem: Both the programs compiled with warnings, which I had ignored.
Most importantly, the server program is failing to bind the process to
its port.
Unless you understand what the warnings are, that's not a good thing.
This is really beyond the scope of this mailing list, but I will try to
answer you.
I doubt this has anything to do with the compile warnings, but unless
the bind() is called with the port set to SO_REUSEADDR, you can only
have one program listening on the port. You can see if something else
is on the port by running
netstat -lpn | grep :XXX
as the root user, where XXX is the port you're interested in, e.g.:
netstat -lpn | grep :22
would show you what program is listening on port 22 (SSH):
[root@prophead ~]# netstat -lpn | grep :22
tcp0 0 0.0.0.0:22 0.0.0.0:*
LISTEN 1528/sshd
tcp6 0 0 :::22 :::*
LISTEN 1528/sshd
As you can see, a program called "sshd" (with the process ID of 1528) is
listening on port 22 on both IPV4 and IPV6.
Reasons, which could not be explored yet, and not known to my knowledge.
Issues:
(1) On my system, in fedora linux environment, I failed to create two
terminals, for executing two programs as a cient and and another as a
server.
Can we not have two terminals at a time in one fedora linux environment.
Of course you can. You're not clear as to what you mean by "terminal"--
do you mean console windows, serial-port terminals or virtual consoles?
(2) Kindly let me know why the server program is failing at the point of
bind(...) function call.
What is wrong wioth my parameters, or anything else if I have missed ??
Kindly let me know!!
(3) Is it necessary to execute both the client and server programs in
two different systems in a LAN.
If they're using the same port, then either they have to be on different
IP addresses (e.g. using an alias) or on separate machines.
If they absolutely must be on the same machine (e.g. for testing
purposes), then I'd suggest you have both programs open the port in
SO_REUSEADDR mode. Here's an (untested) code snippet:
int sock;
int onoff = 1;
sock = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0);
setsockopt(sock, SOL_SOCKET, SO_REUSEADDR,
(char *)&onoff, sizeof(onoff)) {
bind(.);
I had earlier run both the processes in one system, however long time
back, hence I forgot the exact hardware specfication ( that had in the
system). But I remember it was DEC System, having all the GUI interface,
in which I could have as many terminals as I wanted.
Note : In the given environment, of Linux fedora operating system, I can
nt have more than one terminal ..? Any ideas, why there is such a
limitation..? Is it that because of the stand along installation etc.
There is no such limitation. It depends on which desktop you're running
(Gnome, KDE, XFCE, etc.). In the start menu (or Applications or whatever
it's called in your desktop), open the "Terminal emulator" application.
Kindly reply me all the answers, with server program binding well and
exceutes such that, it goes into listening mode and the client program
connects to it and finally sends a message to it before closing the
connection.
As I said before, this really goes beyond what we deal with on this
list. You need to get a C programmer to answer this stuff in detail on
a different list.
--
- Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, AllDigitalri...@alldigital.com -
- AIM/Skype: therps2ICQ: 22643734Yahoo: origrps2 -
--
- "Microsoft is a cross between The Borg and the Ferengi. -
- Unfortunately they use Borg to do their marketing and Ferengi to -
- do their programming." -- Simon Slavin -
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Re: is it the future?
On 09/12/2014 06:34 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote: On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 16:07:35 + (UTC) Bill Oliver wrote: On Fri, 12 Sep 2014, Ralf Corsepius wrote: ... Then let me turn this story around: Where would systemd be if Poettering wasn't RH-employed and if RH wasn't backing him? Nowhere. It would be an anecdotal footnote in Linux history, nobody would remember. Conversely, it's entirely silly and arrogant to tell people to "implement something else" and better. Unless RH decides to turn down systemd, this will not happen to come true. Ralf If a project's prevailing attitude is that it is "entirely silly and arrogant" for users to express their opinions, that does not bode well for the future of the product. "the project" has never said any such thing. to answer Ralf, I think Fedora would still be using systemd if Lennart wasn't employed by Red Hat. Likely. But Fedora would never have started to use systemd if Poettering wasn't RH-employed. Actually nobody, would have taken notice about systemd. I think the only relevance that has is that his employment has allowed him to work on systemd. I disagree. After all we were using upstart before that, which was developed at canonical. (And RHEL6 still is). Right. Fedora/RHEL would never have have taken notice of upstart if Canonical weren't using it ;) Ralf -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: F20: mouse cursor has 1" x 1/4" rectangle attached
On 12.09.2014 17:26, sean darcy wrote: > On 09/09/2014 11:47 AM, poma wrote: >> On 09.09.2014 17:14, sean darcy wrote: >>> On 09/09/2014 11:05 AM, poma wrote: On 09.09.2014 16:13, sean darcy wrote: > On an acer latop with XFCE, the mouse cursor is trailed by a rectangle > about 1/2" below and offset to the right. > > In Settings -> Mouse and Touchpad -> Themes I can change the size of > cursor, which doesn't affect the size of the rectangle. > > How do I get rid of this rectangle? > > sean > $ lspci -knn | grep -A3 VGA poma >>> >>> lspci -knn | grep -A3 VGA >>> 00:01.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. >>> [AMD/ATI] Kaveri [Radeon R5 Graphics] [1002:1318] >>> Subsystem: Acer Incorporated [ALI] Device [1025:0864] >>> Kernel driver in use: radeon >>> Kernel modules: radeon >>> >>> I've installed and switched to a new cursor theme. Rectangle still there. >>> >>> sean >>> >> >> http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-driver-ati/2014-September/026621.html >> >> Rawhide/Fedora 22 >> http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=717 >> https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/work/tasks/5517/717/Fedora-Live-Xfce-x86_64-rawhide-20140909.iso >> >> https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org//work/tasks/5517/717/livecd.log >> >> kernel-3.17.0-0.rc4.git0.1.fc22.x86_64 >> xorg-x11-server-Xorg-1.16.0-7.fc22.x86_64 >> xorg-x11-drv-ati-7.4.0-3.fc22.x86_64 >> mesa-dri-drivers-10.4-0.devel.4.1f184bc.fc22.x86_64 >> libdrm-2.4.56-2.fc22.x86_64 >> >> ~ >> >> Fedora 20 >> kernel-3.16.2-200.fc20.x86_64 >> xorg-x11-server-Xorg-1.14.4-11.fc20.x86_64 >> xorg-x11-drv-ati-7.2.0-3.20131101git3b38701.fc20.x86_64 >> mesa-dri-drivers-10.1.5-1.20140607.fc20.x86_64 >> libdrm-2.4.54-1.fc20.x86_64 >> >> >> poma >> >> >> > For anyone who has the kaveri chipset, here's how I made it work: > > 1. for kernel 3.16.2, F20 is in koji. > > 2. librm - add the kaveri pciids, and rebuild. The libdrm in koji does > not have the pciid. > > 3. mesa - same as libdrm > > 4. xorg-x11-drv-ati - get xorg-x11-drv-ati-7.4.0-3.fc22.x86_64 from > koji. This does not have the new pciids. Get xf86-video-ati from git. Copy: > src/ati_pciids_gen.h > > src/pcidb/ati_pciids.csv > > src/radeon_chipinfo_gen.h > > src/radeon_chipset_gen.h > > src/radeon_pci_chipset_gen.h > > src/radeon_pci_device_match_gen.h > > to the rpm source. Simply patching didn't work for some reason. Rebuild > the rpm for f20, but disable glamor. > > sean > Did you send those patches upstream and downstream? poma -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
On 09/12/2014 09:16 AM, Stephen Gallagher issued this missive: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 09/11/2014 06:33 PM, Dave Ihnat wrote: On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 04:30:11PM -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote: [snip] Systemd is one of the stupid ideas. It flies in the face of everything that makes sense in Unix or Linux, and incorporates some of the most amazingly bad ideas Microsoft ever promulgated. A single point of failure, an Swiss army knife of totally disparate tasks incorporated in a single process just because we can... I really wish people would stop repeating this falsehood. systemd is *not* a single process. It's a name for a collection of small processes that *collectively* are called systemd. There's no single point of failure that's significantly more problematic than pid 1 has ever been. Sorry, but I have to call "bull" on that. It absolutely is a single process (/usr/lib/systemd/systemd). The fact it delegates its operations does not make it "a collection of small processes" any more than, say, xinetd is when it launches programs to handle incoming network connections. systemd and upstart are misguided attempts to speed up the boot process by parallelizing the startups. The race conditions inherent in both are simply atrocious. Reboots have been (and should continue to be) fairly rare events. You can't convince me that there was any real need to speed that up. I mean, the BIOS self tests often take longer than the OS boot. Do they really think they're saving anyone any time with this? IMHO, systemd is a really, REALLY moronic solution to a problem that never existed. Having the developers force people to use it when it is very clear that it is not wanted is arrogance in the highest sense. At this point, I am going to ignore the remainder of this thread. -- - Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, AllDigitalri...@alldigital.com - - AIM/Skype: therps2ICQ: 22643734Yahoo: origrps2 - -- -Hard work has a future payoff. Laziness pays off now. - -- -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
Hi On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 1:23 PM, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > >> Likely. But Fedora would never have started to use systemd if Poettering > wasn't RH-employed. > > Actually nobody, would have taken notice about systemd Playing "what ifs" with history doesn't really do any good but for what it is worth, avahi and pulseaudio got rapidly adopted by distributions when Lennart wasn't working for Red Hat or any other vendor. Lennart working for Red Hat probably helped systemd adoption although he did work on the project on his own initially. It is not quite black and white as you claim. Rahul -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 11:03:43 -0700 Rick Stevens wrote: > Sorry, but I have to call "bull" on that. It absolutely is a single > process (/usr/lib/systemd/systemd). The fact it delegates its operations > does not make it "a collection of small processes" any more than, say, > xinetd is when it launches programs to handle incoming network > connections. Is that the answer to the guy who couldn't get his system to boot after removing journald? -- //Wegge -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 19:08:14 +0300 Joonas Sarajärvi wrote: > 2014-09-12 11:06 GMT+03:00 Anders Wegge Keller : > > Do you know of a place where I can find the analysis behind this > > assessment, or is it just your personal opinion? > > The recent initsystem debate [1] from Debian pretty exhaustively > explores the pros and cons of many major init system options. While > the needs of Fedora differ slightly, a lot of the discussion applies > here, too. I'm asking for a pointer to the numerous rebuttals of falsehoods, and carefully considerations, that time and time again are claimed to exist. A Debian document, written to whitewash a forced descision is not what I'm asking for. I wan't to know where that documentation Kevin Fenzi likes to trot about actually is to be found. -- //Wegge -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 20:30:17 +0200 Anders Wegge Keller wrote: > On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 19:08:14 +0300 > Joonas Sarajärvi wrote: > > > 2014-09-12 11:06 GMT+03:00 Anders Wegge Keller : > > > Do you know of a place where I can find the analysis behind this > > > assessment, or is it just your personal opinion? > > > > The recent initsystem debate [1] from Debian pretty exhaustively > > explores the pros and cons of many major init system options. While > > the needs of Fedora differ slightly, a lot of the discussion applies > > here, too. > > I'm asking for a pointer to the numerous rebuttals of falsehoods, and > carefully considerations, that time and time again are claimed to > exist. A Debian document, written to whitewash a forced descision is > not what I'm asking for. Note that the document was composed by the entire debian tech comittee, even those that voted against systemd, but ok. > I wan't to know where that documentation Kevin Fenzi likes to trot > about actually is to be found. Where did I 'trot about' documentation? I'd start with: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html kevin signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
Hey, 2014-09-12 21:30 GMT+03:00 Anders Wegge Keller : > I'm asking for a pointer to the numerous rebuttals of falsehoods, and > carefully considerations, that time and time again are claimed to exist. A > Debian document, written to whitewash a forced descision is not what I'm > asking for. The page I linked to includes argumentation both for and against all the four init system options that were considered for Debian. Of course the systemd page there is for advocating systemd, but you can also read the argumentations against its use in the pages of other inits. And as far as I know, the systemd page is at least reasonably correct in its facts. If you need a rebuttal specifically for the other article, I currently do not know where I could point you. But in my opinion, the Debian debate pages are one of the better places to get an overview of the merits of different init options. While the debate resulted in Debian picking systemd, just valuing the various technical aspects differently could have had a different result in that discussion. The facts in there should still be reasonably right. - Joonas -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 10:27:18 -0600 Kevin Fenzi wrote: > On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 10:06:59 +0200 > Anders Wegge Keller wrote: > > > On Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:37:13 -0600 > > Kevin Fenzi wrote: > > > > > Well, sorry you think so. I think systemd is far from perfect, but > > > it's a good deal better than what we had before. > > > > Do you know of a place where I can find the analysis behind this > > assessment, or is it just your personal opinion? > > I was stating my opinion. Based on almost 10 years working on Fedora, > 25 or so years working on computers. Funny how two different career paths can bring us to two radically different stances. May I ask what field you work in? My own background is upper level machine controls where we generally end up requiring as stupid a box as possible. > > For me, the limited > > gains, are far exceeded by the additional risk and complexities that > > comes as part of the bundle. I'd really like to see your analysis as > > to why systemd is better for your use case. Then I'll tell you in > > detail why it doesn't at all improve my situation. > > I already posted something like this in the last long, mostly useless > systemd thread in here. :) > > From that email: > > "A few that I really appreciate: > > If you did a 'service stop foobar' it would try and stop foobar, but if > the pid file was stale, foobar started other stuff that wasn't tied to > foobar as a parent, or any other of a number of situations I have run > into, parts of foobar would still be running. With systemd, if you stop > a unit, it's really stopped. All of it. I've yet to see this as a real life issue. > If you started a sysvinit service foobar and wanted to look at it's > output, you had to hope the needed info was also in a log file or kill > the service and restart it in some non standard mode to watch it's > output. With systemd/journald, ALL output is saved and easy to query. At the cost of extra memory usage and/or disk I/O. Do you run into that kind of problems often enough, that it warrant that? It's not gain for me. > If for some reason you had to modify a complex sysvinit script, you > then would have to merge in all changes with package updates over time. > With systemd you can use a .d directory to add/change things without > overwriting the provided systemd unit file." Overrides are IMHO not an improvement. Having everything in one script makes it easy to see what is trying to start. The sh scripting language is expressive enough, that you can do all kinds of emergency hacks there, and get the system running again, when the customer host system drops NFS, or what else is the matter. Messing around with several layers of indirection is not something that improves maintainability. > I'll add in no particular order: > > * unit files are vastly simple to write. I created some unit files for > some irc bots I run in about 5minutes. This would have taken copy and > pasting bunches of stuff to make a sysvinit script that wouldn't have > worked as well. Do you write init scripts often enough that it's an issue? See Randall Monroes wonderful chart at http://xkcd.com/1205/ > * Setting some buggy service to restart on failure is trivial to do. Again, I've never run into a service that could be allowed to fail. Either it's critical, and must run, or it's been disabled. > * Log querying with journalctl is great. I can easily look at the > messages from the previous boot (no matter when it was) or the one > before that. I can look at just output from one service, etc etc. At the cost of a ridiculously complicated binary format. I'm not aware that the WoNTFIX issue with journal corruption still stands, but just giving that answer in the first place... What's the worth of a whizbang feature, that's unreliable? > Anyhow, I could go on, but I think at least some of the folks on this > list (Not sure if you are one of them) have made up their minds, and > nothing I can say will convince them otherwise. In that case, we should > probibly just agree to disagree and move on. I would like to be convinced. But I'm not swayed by fluffy claims, that haven't been thought through. There are a lot of theoretical nice to haves, that are useful once in a decade, at least for me. But they come at such a great price, in complexity and risk, that they are not worth it. > If not, I am happy to help folks track down and report bugs with > systemd, or if you have questions on how to do something in particular > or if there's some case that could be improved. I hope it's just the most extreme cases of developer arrogance I've seen, when people are referring to Lennart Pöttingers attitude. But what I've seen does not make me want to report anything, anywhere. >> As the only alternative is Slackware, one might as well stick >> around. Since I'm stuck with RHEL at work, I relly haven't got much >> choice in desktop distro. > Fair enough, do as you like indeed. Howe
Re: is it the future?
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 1:23 PM, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > Likely. But Fedora would never have started to use systemd if Poettering > wasn't RH-employed. > > Actually nobody, would have taken notice about systemd. > As the guy who happened to be the FPL when systemd was implemented in Fedora, I don't think that's true at all. Just like all of the major changes in Fedora, we evaluate them based on their technical merit, and not based on the company paying the person to write the code.There was a lot of technical debate around systemd when it was first proposed for Fedora, and I imagine that same sort of thing would have happened no matter who Lennart worked for. Again, I don't see why people opposed to systemd resort to making this a personal attack. It's not about the person, it's about the code. And for better or worse, it's code we've decided to use in Fedora. Is it perfect? Nope? Did I have my own personal misgivings about using systemd when it first came out in Fedora? I have to admit that I did. But what I've found over the past couple of years is that I've really come to like systemd, and I absolutely think it was the right decision. -- Jared Smith -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 21:00:01 +0200 Anders Wegge Keller wrote: > Funny how two different career paths can bring us to two radically > different stances. May I ask what field you work in? My own > background is upper level machine controls where we generally end up > requiring as stupid a box as possible. I worked in programming/system development, then for the last many years system administration. > > If you did a 'service stop foobar' it would try and stop foobar, > > but if the pid file was stale, foobar started other stuff that > > wasn't tied to foobar as a parent, or any other of a number of > > situations I have run into, parts of foobar would still be running. > > With systemd, if you stop a unit, it's really stopped. All of it. > > I've yet to see this as a real life issue. I'm surprised. Perhaps you did hit it but didn't notice it? You tend to notice things like this when managing large numbers of systems... > > > If you started a sysvinit service foobar and wanted to look at it's > > output, you had to hope the needed info was also in a log file or > > kill the service and restart it in some non standard mode to watch > > it's output. With systemd/journald, ALL output is saved and easy to > > query. > > At the cost of extra memory usage and/or disk I/O. Do you run into > that kind of problems often enough, that it warrant that? It's not > gain for me. The amount of memory and i/o is trivial, IMHO. > > If for some reason you had to modify a complex sysvinit script, you > > then would have to merge in all changes with package updates over > > time. With systemd you can use a .d directory to add/change things > > without overwriting the provided systemd unit file." > > Overrides are IMHO not an improvement. Having everything in one > script makes it easy to see what is trying to start. The sh scripting > language is expressive enough, that you can do all kinds of emergency > hacks there, and get the system running again, when the customer host > system drops NFS, or what else is the matter. Messing around with > several layers of indirection is not something that improves > maintainability. I've seen some quite crazy sysvinit scripts in my day. Where it would take a fair bit of debugging to just figure out what they were trying to do. The 'emergency hacks' then tend to stay around and when the package updates, you don't get the changes in the new version of the init script. > > > I'll add in no particular order: > > > > * unit files are vastly simple to write. I created some unit files > > for some irc bots I run in about 5minutes. This would have taken > > copy and pasting bunches of stuff to make a sysvinit script that > > wouldn't have worked as well. > > Do you write init scripts often enough that it's an issue? See > Randall Monroes wonderful chart at http://xkcd.com/1205/ Yes. As a sysadmin you have to write scripts somewhat often. > > * Setting some buggy service to restart on failure is trivial to > > do. > > Again, I've never run into a service that could be allowed to fail. > Either it's critical, and must run, or it's been disabled. So, you tell the customer: While we are debugging why this service is crashing, it may be down for a long periods at a time until someone complains that it's down so we manually restart it? I agree you need to fix the underlying problem, but issues that are not easy to track down can very much be helped by being able to restart services without human intervention. > > * Log querying with journalctl is great. I can easily look at the > > messages from the previous boot (no matter when it was) or the one > > before that. I can look at just output from one service, etc etc. > > At the cost of a ridiculously complicated binary format. I'm not > aware that the WoNTFIX issue with journal corruption still stands, > but just giving that answer in the first place... What's the worth of > a whizbang feature, that's unreliable? I've not found it to be unreliable at all. I don't find the (fully documented) format that complex. > > > Anyhow, I could go on, but I think at least some of the folks on > > this list (Not sure if you are one of them) have made up their > > minds, and nothing I can say will convince them otherwise. In that > > case, we should probibly just agree to disagree and move on. > > I would like to be convinced. But I'm not swayed by fluffy claims, > that haven't been thought through. There are a lot of theoretical > nice to haves, that are useful once in a decade, at least for me. But > they come at such a great price, in complexity and risk, that they > are not worth it. I find the nice to haves usefull all the time. Sorry you don't. > > If not, I am happy to help folks track down and report bugs with > > systemd, or if you have questions on how to do something in > > particular or if there's some case that could be improved. > > I hope it's just the most extreme cases of developer arrogan
Re: is it the future?
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Rick Stevens wrote: > systemd and upstart are misguided attempts to speed up the boot process > by parallelizing the startups > Speeding up the boot process was not the major reason that Lennart wrote systemd. See items 2 and 3 at http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html -- Jared Smith -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 13:12:28 -0600 Kevin Fenzi wrote: > On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 21:00:01 +0200 > Anders Wegge Keller wrote: > > > Funny how two different career paths can bring us to two radically > > different stances. May I ask what field you work in? My own > > background is upper level machine controls where we generally end up > > requiring as stupid a box as possible. > > I worked in programming/system development, then for the last many > years system administration. What kind of systems? Apparently ones that needs much more tinkering than those I've been DevOps'ing for the last 17 years. > > > If you did a 'service stop foobar' it would try and stop foobar, > > > but if the pid file was stale, foobar started other stuff that > > > wasn't tied to foobar as a parent, or any other of a number of > > > situations I have run into, parts of foobar would still be running. > > > With systemd, if you stop a unit, it's really stopped. All of it. > > > > I've yet to see this as a real life issue. > > I'm surprised. Perhaps you did hit it but didn't notice it? > You tend to notice things like this when managing large numbers of > systems... If a failure went unnoticed, the service was unneeded in the first place, so your guess is as good as mine there. ... > > > * unit files are vastly simple to write. I created some unit files > > > for some irc bots I run in about 5minutes. This would have taken > > > copy and pasting bunches of stuff to make a sysvinit script that > > > wouldn't have worked as well. > > > > Do you write init scripts often enough that it's an issue? See > > Randall Monroes wonderful chart at http://xkcd.com/1205/ > > Yes. As a sysadmin you have to write scripts somewhat often. Your kind of sysadmin. My kind doesn't. > > > * Setting some buggy service to restart on failure is trivial to > > > do. > > > > Again, I've never run into a service that could be allowed to fail. > > Either it's critical, and must run, or it's been disabled. > > So, you tell the customer: While we are debugging why this service is > crashing, it may be down for a long periods at a time until someone > complains that it's down so we manually restart it? No, that service isn't on our systems in the first place. I'm not kidding, when I say we need as stupid a machine as it comes. The codebase I manage have been ported from SCO Openserver, and it really is most happy running on an electrical abacus. Most of my system administration is finding out how to disable things. Like udev, which is a PITA for us. > I agree you need to fix the underlying problem, but issues that are > not easy to track down can very much be helped by being able to > restart services without human intervention. We do rarely rely on any traditional system service, so really. The code is self-contained, to the point where we have our own implementation of ftp. > I've not found it to be unreliable at all. I don't find the (fully > documented) format that complex. I guess you have seen the bug reports, proving otherwise? One of them are linked from the boycott site. > > I would like to be convinced. But I'm not swayed by fluffy claims, > > that haven't been thought through. There are a lot of theoretical > > nice to haves, that are useful once in a decade, at least for me. But > > they come at such a great price, in complexity and risk, that they > > are not worth it. > > I find the nice to haves usefull all the time. Sorry you don't. That's it? I'm sorry you turned out to be such an arrogant prick in a single sentence. What's the point of people even trying to ppoint out why systemd isn't the bee's knees in all cases, when this is the reaction? > You're choice of course. Note however that Lennart is not the sole > systemd developer. There's a bunch of them. Put Lennart into a retirement home, and wait until he's been forgotten. He brings enough bad karma for all involved to share. -- //Wegge -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 13:12:28 -0600 Kevin Fenzi wrote: > The amount of memory and i/o is trivial, IMHO. Then why does the memory usage needle that was pegged near zero in gkrellm (back in the init days) keep creeping farther and farther towards the other side of the chart on a totally idle system ever since systemd showed up? Every new and improved systemd update moves the needle again (and not in a good direction). -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 21:52:51 +0200 Anders Wegge Keller wrote: ...snip... > > I find the nice to haves usefull all the time. Sorry you don't. > > That's it? I'm sorry you turned out to be such an arrogant prick in a > single sentence. What's the point of people even trying to ppoint out > why systemd isn't the bee's knees in all cases, when this is the > reaction? Wow, really? It's arrogant for me to state that I find some of the things you don't care about nice to have all the time and to express my sorrow that you don't? > > > You're choice of course. Note however that Lennart is not the sole > > systemd developer. There's a bunch of them. > > Put Lennart into a retirement home, and wait until he's been > forgotten. He brings enough bad karma for all involved to share. Please knock off the personal attacks. kevin signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 16:17:37 -0400 Tom Horsley wrote: > On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 13:12:28 -0600 > Kevin Fenzi wrote: > > > The amount of memory and i/o is trivial, IMHO. > > Then why does the memory usage needle that was pegged near > zero in gkrellm (back in the init days) keep creeping farther > and farther towards the other side of the chart on a totally > idle system ever since systemd showed up? Beats me. Perhaps we could figure it out. ;) What was/is the dial measuring? "free" memory? Note that on any Linux system, the amount of memory thats totally 'free' should be pretty close to 0, since the kernel will cache as much as it can. > Every new and improved systemd update moves the needle again > (and not in a good direction). I'd be surprised if it was systemd, but if so, great... a bug to be fixed. kevin signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
Hi On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Anders Wegge Keller wrote: > That's it? I'm sorry you turned out to be such an arrogant prick in a > single sentence. > Whoa. He just said he finds some of the features beneficial when you dont and there is nothing arrogant about that. Please follow the Fedora code of conduct https://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Rahul -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Thunderbird 24.8 and 31 never reached Fedora? "solved"
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 > What do you wonder about? After looking at the release dates things are more clear to me: v.24.7.0, released: July 22, 2014 v.31.0, released: July 22, 2014 v.24.8.0, released: September 2, 2014 v.31.1.0, released: September 2, 2014 So it makes no sense to have v.31.0 and v.24.8.0 if we have v.24.7.0 -> v.31.1.0. I missed the fact that Thunderbird has ESR releases as well. Sorry for the noise. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJUE1zuAAoJEG58zmw5nc+vonIP+wQ9Xp3YQRwddg09lBQmwGgl hgJ0Wv4uu6IQ6I56haMpRx3COhrJKax/AfZwQRL8no0wNarrKk46fBwbnTSaX7RA qko72nP8cI3oBHWl47UmdyfpekyzZsa6GNikXc0UHFowEWlyiSgPDe62SiUJyH8n 5SXDGe+D2/h4SF93oOLByjj8wSoa28J6fNSsdJX1YtyJI1qCtEybNMmPPE/GzCr5 Vl8H4g+bnuQn1MJLKEJPhhtHtYt4SrQcVnQblZprVrPu2jQPekU1HrqY2YsFtDDI yDPRvmvFLAZBS/kO3zUMLjVK8bB4D0/1bVYnYobJVhGLFuu7lsF56V3+hfpnDFnY PQtZ58/KMCT1lgOXfJDwKg6QMxa5uDKe4zD2oGtvjWG6OTZ5IWW9Vu/ZpNQKt8ct Vq4y6Gg2/81zRyfuoGD9GsgKwvTrdraXBNCmGYZvV40fOmXCD1kqIoEoHx7qOCVG FqTtwscxo8CN4/r+qzlLUHKvQ0y/Xodnk015fFO2VfazOVzXmfeaoILElAKkRRxw OnGQEDCXTbwJqPU6CL2tPqEkRf0fL4Aqdfl5A7uXdrnMSFm4qEOQP8PeQOPODcdX 4Ll+EwdCeVjLRHusxpBTs0J4L9C2GyZMVvovhkR9atI5fOeqDXI7xYHh87NvXdmp sWdEWPxTX19ZTtUaVfWN =gKLJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 14:20:50 -0600 Kevin Fenzi wrote: > On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 21:52:51 +0200 > Wow, really? It's arrogant for me to state that I find some of the > things you don't care about nice to have all the time and to express my > sorrow that you don't? No. What makes you arrogant, is the total failure to ackniowledge that not everyone lives on your planet. > Please knock off the personal attacks. That was just stating an obvious fact. If you want to pretend that Lennart isn't a highly controversial person, you are free to do so. But you know it's the case. I\m signing out of this waste of time. -- //Wegge -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
>> The amount of memory and i/o is trivial, IMHO. > > Then why does the memory usage needle that was pegged near > zero in gkrellm (back in the init days) keep creeping farther > and farther towards the other side of the chart on a totally > idle system ever since systemd showed up? > > Every new and improved systemd update moves the needle again > (and not in a good direction). > -- +1000 More and more procs. are running behind the scenes and it triggers higher CPU usage. They are adding more and more bloat. But what can mere mortals do? Best Regards, Antonio Can't remember your password? Do you need a strong and secure password? Use Password manager! It stores your passwords & protects your account. Check it out at http://mysecurelogon.com/manager -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Connecting with Iphones and moving files to Linux filemanager
F18/KDE is there a App that connect to a Iphone and move files from the Iphone ? -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Connecting with Iphones and moving files to Linux filemanager
On 09/12/2014 05:36 PM, Mickey wrote: > F18/KDE > > is there a App that connect to a Iphone and move files from the Iphone ? > Dropbox works just fine. Or are you looking for a media connection other than iTunes? -- -- Steve -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: f21 workstation(gnome) ping fedora servers every 300seconds
Hello, I know that this is still a devel release, but it's worth noting that it would appear that it's the standard way of detecting captive portals. It would appear that chromium and windows both user similar detection systems for captive portals. I can see this being quite a useful feature for people use use wifi at universities, on trains, coffee shops, etc... but I guess it would be good to let people run/configure their own endpoint somehow for those who want it? (unless it should be a post-connection hook? although I’m not sure that this would always work - for example "you have exceeded your allowed time" messages or such). http://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/chromiumos-design-docs/network-portal-detection http://blog.superuser.com/2011/05/16/windows-7-network-awareness/ Regards, Joseph -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Connecting with Iphones and moving files to Linux filemanager
On 09/12/2014 07:27 PM, Steven Stern wrote: On 09/12/2014 05:36 PM, Mickey wrote: F18/KDE is there a App that connect to a Iphone and move files from the Iphone ? Dropbox works just fine. Or are you looking for a media connection other than iTunes? Mainly just to move files from Iphone to Dolphin. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Connecting with Iphones and moving files to Linux filemanager
On 09/12/2014 08:37 PM, Mickey wrote: On 09/12/2014 07:27 PM, Steven Stern wrote: On 09/12/2014 05:36 PM, Mickey wrote: F18/KDE is there a App that connect to a Iphone and move files from the Iphone ? Dropbox works just fine. Or are you looking for a media connection other than iTunes? Mainly just to move files from Iphone to Dolphin. isn't there a Dropbox that will work with Dolphin file manager ? -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: em1 down in nm, yet it has an IPv6 address
On 09/12/14 08:26, Dan Irwin wrote: > Dan Williams replied over on the NetworkManager list. He suggested rebuilding > and installing NetworkManager from F21. Question Was it sufficient for you to rebuild and install NetworkManager and NetworkManager-glib only? Thanks, Ed -- If you can't laugh at yourself, others will gladly oblige. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is it the future?
On 12.09.2014 18:31, Kevin Fenzi wrote: > On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 10:56:34 +0200 > poma wrote: > >> On 12.09.2014 10:06, Anders Wegge Keller wrote: >>> On Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:37:13 -0600 >>> Kevin Fenzi wrote: >>> Well, sorry you think so. I think systemd is far from perfect, but it's a good deal better than what we had before. >>> >>> Do you know of a place where I can find the analysis behind this >>> assessment, or is it just your personal opinion? For me, the >>> limited gains, are far exceeded by the additional risk and >>> complexities that comes as part of the bundle. I'd really like to >>> see your analysis as to why systemd is better for your use case. >>> Then I'll tell you in detail why it doesn't at all improve my >>> situation. >> >> In this respect, can you and mister Ihnat provide us a comparison >> study? > > I know of no such study. I'm not sure what or how you could even do > something around this. It's a technical decision... > > kevin > Man, I wasn't called out you, but when you reply, this whole "debate" is a one big " ", pro et contra, neither the first nor the last, without actual numbers it's just a bunch of archetypes and clichés. poma -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: One of my systems stalls at start-up
Ed Greshko ha scrito il 11/09/2014 alle 01:24: On 09/11/14 06:24, antonio wrote: I knew the systemctl way of switching, but I am lazy (and love the graphical tool): I hope that maintainer will report some improvement in a fairly short time, in the meantime I will see if kdm has no issues.. Tnx again for help (I learnt a lot from you guys) OK Sounds like it shouldn't take too long to determine if the switch to kdm is a valid workaround. I hope one of the lessons to be learned is "don't jump to conclusions". :-) :-) so far switching from gdm to kdm works fine: but I don't see any improvement/activity on reported bugs in bugzilla -- Antonio M Skype: amontag52 Linux Fedora F20 (Heisenbug) on Fujitsu Lifebook A512 http://lugsaronno.altervista.org http://www.campingmonterosa.com -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: One of my systems stalls at start-up
On 09/13/14 14:22, antonio montagnani wrote: > Ed Greshko ha scrito il 11/09/2014 alle 01:24: >> On 09/11/14 06:24, antonio wrote: >>> I knew the systemctl way of switching, but I am lazy (and love the >>> graphical tool): I hope that maintainer will report some improvement in a >>> fairly short time, in the meantime I will see if kdm has no issues.. >>> Tnx again for help (I learnt a lot from you guys) >> >> OK Sounds like it shouldn't take too long to determine if the switch to >> kdm is a valid workaround. >> >> I hope one of the lessons to be learned is "don't jump to conclusions". :-) >> :-) >> > > so far switching from gdm to kdm works fine: but I don't see any > improvement/activity on reported bugs in bugzilla > It probably isn't affecting a large enough group of people to make it to the top of the priority list. And it probably either has, or needs to be, kicked upstream. But don't despair. I filed a bugzilla on a font problem on December 4, 2013 and it was just fixed. :-) :-) -- If you can't laugh at yourself, others will gladly oblige. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
