Re: LXDE is an acceptable substitute for Gnome 2
On 09/23/2011 06:22 PM, Craig White wrote: > Seems as though it's awful easy to whine but none of the whiners > actually want to do any of the work. > You know, I get awful tired of people saying that and ignoring the fact that most people aren't computer programmers and those who are generally don't have the time or the specific expertise needed to create a new fork of Gnome. But what I get even more tired of is people who can't be bothered to trim their replies so that the rest of us don't have to scroll past all of your bickering over and over to get to your newest nugget of wisdom. Either take it off-list or get rid of all of the old material that we've all seen before. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: strange behaviour of my desktop
On Thu, 2011-09-22 at 22:54 +0200, antoniomontagn...@gmail.com wrote: > yes, fans seems to work fine... I'll add the obvious: It's not enough that they spin, there has to be airflow through the heatsink that the fans blow across, and throughout the cabinet. Also, heatsinks need to make good physical contact with what they're attached too. -- [tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: LXDE is an acceptable substitute for Gnome 2
On Sat, 2011-09-24 at 00:28 -0700, Joe Zeff wrote: > On 09/23/2011 06:22 PM, Craig White wrote: > > Seems as though it's awful easy to whine but none of the whiners > > actually want to do any of the work. > > > > You know, I get awful tired of people saying that and ignoring the fact > that most people aren't computer programmers and those who are generally > don't have the time or the specific expertise needed to create a new > fork of Gnome. > > But what I get even more tired of is people who can't be bothered to > trim their replies so that the rest of us don't have to scroll past all > of your bickering over and over to get to your newest nugget of wisdom. > Either take it off-list or get rid of all of the old material that > we've all seen before. I resent that you chose my reply to call out 'untrimmed' replies because it carries the false implication that I didn't trim. I did and it should be totally obvious that I did if you check. I won't say that I always do but I think that I almost always trim and reply in line to appropriate things. Whether people are programmers or not is decidedly not the point here. The GNOME developers have made a decision to revamp the UI to account for the fact that computers are extending beyond the model borne out of Xerox PARC... a keyboard, screen and mouse. They are attempting to satisfy display scenarios that might be as small as a telephone to very large and often multiple large displays. They are attempting to satisfy the fact that keyboards and mice might be eschewed in favor of touch input and gestures. They are attempting to satisfy the notion that usage embraces work flow and workspace(s) and not just application launching. You can't go to the Ford dealer and buy a brand new 1957 Thunderbird but essentially that is what is being asked of here... an eternal version of GNOME that was envisioned and started 10 years ago. I can appreciate that long time computer users who only use a keyboard, mouse and screen and little adaptability to how they interact with grander concepts of work flow and workspace might want to drive the 1957 Thunderbird forever and if there is a sufficient number of modestly skilled users, they can keep repairing the Thunderbird forever. I wish them luck. Then again, even the most casual reading of the intent of Fedora makes it clear that it embraces the latest technology advances and those who just want things to remain as they are should probably not be using Fedora but something like RHEL or CentOS which provide long term non-change by intent. Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GGoogle chat vs Skype
On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 8:19 PM, Michael Cronenworth wrote: > Native Linux 64-bit binaries are available. Not quite: $ sudo yum history info 337 ... Command Line : update google-talkplugin ... Packages Altered: Updated google-talkplugin-2.2.2.0-1.x86_64 Update2.3.2.0-1.x86_64 Dep-Install libv4l-0.8.5-1.fc14.i686 < -- Suvayu Open source is the future. It sets us free. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GGoogle chat vs Skype
On Sat, 2011-09-24 at 09:23 +1000, Roger wrote: > > How are Skype users addressed? I suppose I am OK if I know their > > telephone number. > Skype, for me on Unbuntu and Fedora took about a few seconds to install. > Read the skype instructions for how to use. > To use, you need the skype addresses of the people you wish to contact, > from memory there are lists of skype users that you can choose from. > If yo want to telephone people using skype that's another matter. > Roger I assume you are saying that you can only contact people who use Skype when their computers are on. The phone company is glad to give me peoples phone numbers, so that seems like a better way to reach people. But it seems to me that the Google products allow Skype-like communication including video conferencing. -- === Take your work seriously but never take yourself seriously; and do not take what happens either to yourself or your work seriously. -- Booth Tarkington === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akons...@sbcglobal.net -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: LXDE is an acceptable substitute for Gnome 2
On 09/24/2011 07:46 AM, Craig White wrote:
>
> Whether people are programmers or not is decidedly not the point here.
> The GNOME developers have made a decision to revamp the UI to account
> for the fact that computers are extending beyond the model borne out of
> Xerox PARC... a keyboard, screen and mouse. They are attempting to
> satisfy display scenarios that might be as small as a telephone to very
> large and often multiple large displays. They are attempting to satisfy
> the fact that keyboards and mice might be eschewed in favor of touch
> input and gestures. They are attempting to satisfy the notion that usage
> embraces work flow and workspace(s) and not just application launching.
Its one thing to add tablet/phone ("metro") mode - its another to make
laptops (or desktops) much more difficult to use.
>
> You can't go to the Ford dealer and buy a brand new 1957 Thunderbird but
> essentially that is what is being asked of here... an eternal version of
> GNOME that was envisioned and started 10 years ago.
Problem with argument by analogy is that it often makes little sense.
Every car you buy still has wheels just as the very first ones did
(support for keyboard) .. and they all have a steering wheel (a mouse)
... and they all have an engine and a speedometer ... what has happened
to cars is largely additions and automation to make things easier
(headlamps that track steering - they wisely did not remove headlamps) -
switch to LED lights (not remove lights) ... add auto-back-off cruise
control for collision avoidance (not force mouse to move to top left)
... etc ect
>
> I can appreciate that long time computer users who only use a keyboard,
> mouse and screen and little adaptability to how they interact with
> grander concepts of work flow and workspace might want to drive the 1957
> Thunderbird forever and if there is a sufficient number of modestly
> skilled users, they can keep repairing the Thunderbird forever. I wish
> them luck.
Its not the users - its the vehicle - when I'm using a phone/tablet
i'll use the tablet version... when I'm using my multi core server I
have no touch sensitive screen ... when I'm flying a plane I'll use
different controls than driving a car (or a boat). Don't force me to use
boat controls for my plane if you don't mind :-)
I would take your point really to mean we should offer a phone/tablet
spin as well as a lap/desk top spin. The default spin ... I have no view
... however only having a phone spin for fedora is silly.
Of course we have the other DE's which are better suited - so my
suggestion is move Gnome-3 to a tablet spin and make KDE or LXDE or
XFCE the desktop spin and be done with this silly bickering.
Vote for which is the default spin or base it on percent of
tablets/phones running fedora if you prefer.
Gnome 3 is not -the- future - its just todays tablet spin ...
>
> Then again, even the most casual reading of the intent of Fedora makes
> it clear that it embraces the latest technology advances and those who
> just want things to remain as they are should probably not be using
> Fedora but something like RHEL or CentOS which provide long term
> non-change by intent.
One must use the right tool for the job - the "latest" here is the
phone spin - doesn't mean we should switch that for all devices ... lets
not pretend you're gonna hold your laptop up to your face and make a
call ... are you? :-)
gene
--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: LXDE is an acceptable substitute for Gnome 2
On 09/24/2011 07:26 AM, Genes MailLists wrote:
> On 09/24/2011 07:46 AM, Craig White wrote:
>
>> Whether people are programmers or not is decidedly not the point here.
>> The GNOME developers have made a decision to revamp the UI to account
>> for the fact that computers are extending beyond the model borne out of
>> Xerox PARC... a keyboard, screen and mouse. They are attempting to
>> satisfy display scenarios that might be as small as a telephone to very
>> large and often multiple large displays. They are attempting to satisfy
>> the fact that keyboards and mice might be eschewed in favor of touch
>> input and gestures. They are attempting to satisfy the notion that usage
>> embraces work flow and workspace(s) and not just application launching.
> Its one thing to add tablet/phone ("metro") mode - its another to make
> laptops (or desktops) much more difficult to use.
>
>> You can't go to the Ford dealer and buy a brand new 1957 Thunderbird but
>> essentially that is what is being asked of here... an eternal version of
>> GNOME that was envisioned and started 10 years ago.
> Problem with argument by analogy is that it often makes little sense.
>
> Every car you buy still has wheels just as the very first ones did
> (support for keyboard) .. and they all have a steering wheel (a mouse)
> ... and they all have an engine and a speedometer ... what has happened
> to cars is largely additions and automation to make things easier
> (headlamps that track steering - they wisely did not remove headlamps) -
> switch to LED lights (not remove lights) ... add auto-back-off cruise
> control for collision avoidance (not force mouse to move to top left)
> ... etc ec
>> I can appreciate that long time computer users who only use a keyboard,
>> mouse and screen and little adaptability to how they interact with
>> grander concepts of work flow and workspace might want to drive the 1957
>> Thunderbird forever and if there is a sufficient number of modestly
>> skilled users, they can keep repairing the Thunderbird forever. I wish
>> them luck.
> Its not the users - its the vehicle - when I'm using a phone/tablet
> i'll use the tablet version... when I'm using my multi core server I
> have no touch sensitive screen ... when I'm flying a plane I'll use
> different controls than driving a car (or a boat). Don't force me to use
> boat controls for my plane if you don't mind :-)
>
> I would take your point really to mean we should offer a phone/tablet
> spin as well as a lap/desk top spin. The default spin ... I have no view
> ... however only having a phone spin for fedora is silly.
>
> Of course we have the other DE's which are better suited - so my
> suggestion is move Gnome-3 to a tablet spin and make KDE or LXDE or
> XFCE the desktop spin and be done with this silly bickering.
>
> Vote for which is the default spin or base it on percent of
> tablets/phones running fedora if you prefer.
>
> Gnome 3 is not -the- future - its just todays tablet spin ..
>> Then again, even the most casual reading of the intent of Fedora makes
>> it clear that it embraces the latest technology advances and those who
>> just want things to remain as they are should probably not be using
>> Fedora but something like RHEL or CentOS which provide long term
>> non-change by intent.
> One must use the right tool for the job - the "latest" here is the
> phone spin - doesn't mean we should switch that for all devices ... lets
> not pretend you're gonna hold your laptop up to your face and make a
> call ... are you? :-)
>
> gene
+1
--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: LXDE is an acceptable substitute for Gnome 2
On September 24, 2011 at 10:02 AM "Daniel B. Thurman" wrote:
> On 09/24/2011 07:26 AM, Genes MailLists wrote:
> > On 09/24/2011 07:46 AM, Craig White wrote:
> >
> >> Whether people are programmers or not is decidedly not the point here.
> >> The GNOME developers have made a decision to revamp the UI to account
> >> for the fact that computers are extending beyond the model borne out of
> >> Xerox PARC... a keyboard, screen and mouse. They are attempting to
> >> satisfy display scenarios that might be as small as a telephone to very
> >> large and often multiple large displays. They are attempting to satisfy
> >> the fact that keyboards and mice might be eschewed in favor of touch
> >> input and gestures. They are attempting to satisfy the notion that usage
> >> embraces work flow and workspace(s) and not just application launching.
> > Its one thing to add tablet/phone ("metro") mode - its another to make
> > laptops (or desktops) much more difficult to use.
> >
> >> You can't go to the Ford dealer and buy a brand new 1957 Thunderbird but
> >> essentially that is what is being asked of here... an eternal version of
> >> GNOME that was envisioned and started 10 years ago.
> > Problem with argument by analogy is that it often makes little sense.
> >
> > Every car you buy still has wheels just as the very first ones did
> > (support for keyboard) .. and they all have a steering wheel (a mouse)
> > ... and they all have an engine and a speedometer ... what has happened
> > to cars is largely additions and automation to make things easier
> > (headlamps that track steering - they wisely did not remove headlamps) -
> > switch to LED lights (not remove lights) ... add auto-back-off cruise
> > control for collision avoidance (not force mouse to move to top left)
> > ... etc ec
> >> I can appreciate that long time computer users who only use a keyboard,
> >> mouse and screen and little adaptability to how they interact with
> >> grander concepts of work flow and workspace might want to drive the 1957
> >> Thunderbird forever and if there is a sufficient number of modestly
> >> skilled users, they can keep repairing the Thunderbird forever. I wish
> >> them luck.
> > Its not the users - its the vehicle - when I'm using a phone/tablet
> > i'll use the tablet version... when I'm using my multi core server I
> > have no touch sensitive screen ... when I'm flying a plane I'll use
> > different controls than driving a car (or a boat). Don't force me to use
> > boat controls for my plane if you don't mind :-)
> >
> > I would take your point really to mean we should offer a phone/tablet
> > spin as well as a lap/desk top spin. The default spin ... I have no view
> > ... however only having a phone spin for fedora is silly.
> >
> > Of course we have the other DE's which are better suited - so my
> > suggestion is move Gnome-3 to a tablet spin and make KDE or LXDE or
> > XFCE the desktop spin and be done with this silly bickering.
> >
> > Vote for which is the default spin or base it on percent of
> > tablets/phones running fedora if you prefer.
> >
> > Gnome 3 is not -the- future - its just todays tablet spin ..
> >> Then again, even the most casual reading of the intent of Fedora makes
> >> it clear that it embraces the latest technology advances and those who
> >> just want things to remain as they are should probably not be using
> >> Fedora but something like RHEL or CentOS which provide long term
> >> non-change by intent.
> > One must use the right tool for the job - the "latest" here is the
> > phone spin - doesn't mean we should switch that for all devices ... lets
> > not pretend you're gonna hold your laptop up to your face and make a
> > call ... are you? :-)
> >
> > gene
> +1
I find it ironic that the people that were screaming about KDE when they went
this route are defending Gnome for going the same route. --
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: LXDE is an acceptable substitute for Gnome 2
On Sat, 2011-09-24 at 10:02 -0700, Daniel B. Thurman wrote: > +1 Did you read the part about trimming posts or is this some strange postmodern joke? poc -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Developers responsibillity to Fedora Users
On 09/24/2011 07:36 AM, charles zeitler wrote: > Do what thou wilt > shall be the whole of the Law. > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Aaron Konstam wrote: >> Alan Cox is exactly right that the users of Fedora products get them >> free and one can make a strong case that therefore Fedora developers >> have no responsibility to listen to user's complaints. >> === >> Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: stuff > > yes, such an argument _can_ be made. > > otoh, if the family of Fedora contributors were _only_ > building for themselves, i suspect they would quickly > lose interest. thus, there is an implied incentive to > consider (& encourage!) feedback/feedforward. "encourage" != "enforce" A fiscal relationship changes the picture, hence RedHat, Inc. Things are as they should be because things are as they are. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Developers responsibillity to Fedora Users
On 09/24/2011 11:43 AM, 夜神 岩男 wrote: > Things are as they should be because things are as they are. This is going way, way off topic, but that could be used as a justification for never changing anything. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: LXDE is an acceptable substitute for Gnome 2
On Sat, 2011-09-24 at 10:26 -0400, Genes MailLists wrote:
> On 09/24/2011 07:46 AM, Craig White wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Whether people are programmers or not is decidedly not the point here.
> > The GNOME developers have made a decision to revamp the UI to account
> > for the fact that computers are extending beyond the model borne out of
> > Xerox PARC... a keyboard, screen and mouse. They are attempting to
> > satisfy display scenarios that might be as small as a telephone to very
> > large and often multiple large displays. They are attempting to satisfy
> > the fact that keyboards and mice might be eschewed in favor of touch
> > input and gestures. They are attempting to satisfy the notion that usage
> > embraces work flow and workspace(s) and not just application launching.
>
>
> Its one thing to add tablet/phone ("metro") mode - its another to make
> laptops (or desktops) much more difficult to use.
This is a subjective judgment at best since I have seen postings from
people who believe that it is a very good desktop implementation. What
we know is that it is not quite finished at this point.
> >
> > You can't go to the Ford dealer and buy a brand new 1957 Thunderbird but
> > essentially that is what is being asked of here... an eternal version of
> > GNOME that was envisioned and started 10 years ago.
>
> Problem with argument by analogy is that it often makes little sense.
>
> Every car you buy still has wheels just as the very first ones did
> (support for keyboard) .. and they all have a steering wheel (a mouse)
> ... and they all have an engine and a speedometer ... what has happened
> to cars is largely additions and automation to make things easier
> (headlamps that track steering - they wisely did not remove headlamps) -
> switch to LED lights (not remove lights) ... add auto-back-off cruise
> control for collision avoidance (not force mouse to move to top left)
> ... etc ect
The octane in today's gasoline is not sufficient for the high
compression engines from that era. Then there's fuel injection, emission
requirements and many technological advances that really make an old car
unfeasible at this point... that was the point I was trying to make with
the analogy. It didn't seem to be all that complicated but if it doesn't
make any sense to you please ignore it as a distraction.
> Its not the users - its the vehicle - when I'm using a phone/tablet
> i'll use the tablet version... when I'm using my multi core server I
> have no touch sensitive screen ... when I'm flying a plane I'll use
> different controls than driving a car (or a boat). Don't force me to use
> boat controls for my plane if you don't mind :-)
no one is forcing you to do anything and I suspect that touch screens
will become prominent for desktop use in the near future. They've always
been available but very little software actually made sense of them,
thus there's been nothing to drive sales (save for maybe the Wacom
Cintiq).
As for a multi-core server... I don't generally have a monitor on them
anyway, at least nothing 'dedicated' and more likely a multi-port KVM to
share the keyboard, screen & mouse but I think this is clearly not the
market that GNOME targets anyway.
> I would take your point really to mean we should offer a phone/tablet
> spin as well as a lap/desk top spin. The default spin ... I have no view
> ... however only having a phone spin for fedora is silly.
>
> Of course we have the other DE's which are better suited - so my
> suggestion is move Gnome-3 to a tablet spin and make KDE or LXDE or
> XFCE the desktop spin and be done with this silly bickering.
>
> Vote for which is the default spin or base it on percent of
> tablets/phones running fedora if you prefer.
The reality is that GNOME is a project that develops software for their
own purposes. A distribution such as Fedora has entirely separate
objectives and packages the bits and pieces that makes sense for it's
target audience.
There are a lot of uses for Linux that have nothing to do with anything
resembling a Linux desktop. Fedora has an interest in some of them.
Ubuntu has an interest in some of them. There's not always intersection.
There are tablets, phones and many different types of devices that
employ Linux, possibly GNOME and it seems evident that the current trend
is that the laptop and desktop computers of all OS varieties are giving
up a growing piece of their installed user base to tablets.
> Gnome 3 is not -the- future - its just todays tablet spin ...
GNOME 3 like Macintosh OS X 'Lion' and Windows 8 consider the form
factor as an alternative form factor for a computer. If you have don't
have an interest in a tablet at this point, fine. There were still
people who believed the earth was flat after Columbus returned to Spain
too.
> > Then again, even the most casual reading of the intent of Fedora makes
> > it clear that it embraces the latest technology advances and
Re: Developers responsibillity to Fedora Users
On 09/25/2011 04:17 AM, Joe Zeff wrote: > On 09/24/2011 11:43 AM, 夜神 岩男 wrote: >> Things are as they should be because things are as they are. > > This is going way, way off topic, but that could be used as a > justification for never changing anything. Or for changing everything. "Everything" encompasses process, including the process of change -- which is the aspect I find most relevant here. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Disk Sleep ??
F15 Starting Firefox and computer freezes for about 30 sec. and Monitor
shows "Disk Sleep"
Below is /var/log/messages, this output happens through out messages.
I also ran a long term Hard Disk test on /dev/sda with smartctl and
that output is shown below.
Any Ideals ??
kernel: [253186.023672] ata2.00: exception Emask 0x0 SAct 0x1 SErr 0x0
action 0x0
Sep 24 15:46:22 Bigone kernel: [253186.023682] ata2.00: irq_stat 0x4008
Sep 24 15:46:22 Bigone kernel: [253186.023689] ata2.00: failed command:
READ FPDMA QUEUED
Sep 24 15:46:22 Bigone kernel: [253186.023702] ata2.00: cmd
60/08:00:57:4a:d2/00:00:17:00:00/40 tag 0 ncq 4096 in
Sep 24 15:46:22 Bigone kernel: [253186.023705] res
41/40:00:5a:4a:d2/00:00:17:00:00/40 Emask 0x409 (media error)
Sep 24 15:46:22 Bigone kernel: [253186.023711] ata2.00: status: { DRDY ERR }
Sep 24 15:46:22 Bigone kernel: [253186.023716] ata2.00: error: { UNC }
Sep 24 15:46:22 Bigone kernel: [253186.025447] ata2.00: configured for
UDMA/133
Sep 24 15:46:22 Bigone kernel: [253186.025463] ata2: EH complete
Sep 24 15:46:26 Bigone kernel: [253189.390329] ata2.00: exception Emask
0x0 SAct 0x1 SErr 0x0 action 0x0
Sep 24 15:46:26 Bigone kernel: [253189.390340] ata2.00: irq_stat 0x4008
Sep 24 15:46:26 Bigone kernel: [253189.390348] ata2.00: failed command:
READ FPDMA QUEUED
Sep 24 15:46:26 Bigone kernel: [253189.390361] ata2.00: cmd
60/08:00:57:4a:d2/00:00:17:00:00/40 tag 0 ncq 4096 in
Sep 24 15:46:26 Bigone kernel: [253189.390365] res
41/40:00:5a:4a:d2/00:00:17:00:00/40 Emask 0x409 (media error)
Sep 24 15:46:26 Bigone kernel: [253189.390371] ata2.00: status: { DRDY ERR }
Sep 24 15:46:26 Bigone kernel: [253189.390376] ata2.00: error: { UNC }
Sep 24 15:46:26 Bigone kernel: [253189.392120] ata2.00: configured for
UDMA/133
Sep 24 15:46:26 Bigone kernel: [253189.392146] ata2: EH complete
Sep 24 15:46:29 Bigone kernel: [253192.598640] ata2.00: exception Emask
0x0 SAct 0x1 SErr 0x0 action 0x0
Sep 24 15:46:29 Bigone kernel: [253192.598649] ata2.00: irq_stat 0x4008
Sep 24 15:46:29 Bigone kernel: [253192.598656] ata2.00: failed command:
READ FPDMA QUEUED
Sep 24 15:46:29 Bigone kernel: [253192.598670] ata2.00: cmd
60/08:00:57:4a:d2/00:00:17:00:00/40 tag 0 ncq 4096 in
Sep 24 15:46:29 Bigone kernel: [253192.598673] res
41/40:00:5a:4a:d2/00:00:17:00:00/40 Emask 0x409 (media error)
Sep 24 15:46:29 Bigone kernel: [253192.598679] ata2.00: status: { DRDY ERR }
Sep 24 15:46:29 Bigone kernel: [253192.598684] ata2.00: error: { UNC }
Sep 24 15:46:29 Bigone kernel: [253192.600393] ata2.00: configured for
UDMA/133
Sep 24 15:46:29 Bigone kernel: [253192.600409] ata2: EH complete
Sep 24 15:46:32 Bigone kernel: [253195.648581] ata2.00: exception Emask
0x0 SAct 0x1 SErr 0x0 action 0x0
Sep 24 15:46:32 Bigone kernel: [253195.648586] ata2.00: irq_stat 0x4008
Sep 24 15:46:32 Bigone kernel: [253195.648591] ata2.00: failed command:
READ FPDMA QUEUED
Sep 24 15:46:32 Bigone kernel: [253195.648597] ata2.00: cmd
60/08:00:57:4a:d2/00:00:17:00:00/40 tag 0 ncq 4096 in
Sep 24 15:46:32 Bigone kernel: [253195.648599] res
41/40:00:5a:4a:d2/00:00:17:00:00/40 Emask 0x409 (media error)
Sep 24 15:46:32 Bigone kernel: [253195.648602] ata2.00: status: { DRDY ERR }
Sep 24 15:46:32 Bigone kernel: [253195.648604] ata2.00: error: { UNC }
Sep 24 15:46:32 Bigone kernel: [253195.650321] ata2.00: configured for
UDMA/133
Sep 24 15:46:32 Bigone kernel: [253195.650338] ata2: EH complete
Sep 24 15:46:35 Bigone kernel: [253198.698545] ata2.00: exception Emask
0x0 SAct 0x1 SErr 0x0 action 0x0
Sep 24 15:46:35 Bigone kernel: [253198.698553] ata2.00: irq_stat 0x4008
Sep 24 15:46:35 Bigone kernel: [253198.698560] ata2.00: failed command:
READ FPDMA QUEUED
Sep 24 15:46:35 Bigone kernel: [253198.698573] ata2.00: cmd
60/08:00:57:4a:d2/00:00:17:00:00/40 tag 0 ncq 4096 in
Sep 24 15:46:35 Bigone kernel: [253198.698575] res
41/40:00:5a:4a:d2/00:00:17:00:00/40 Emask 0x409 (media error)
Sep 24 15:46:35 Bigone kernel: [253198.698582] ata2.00: status: { DRDY ERR }
Sep 24 15:46:35 Bigone kernel: [253198.698586] ata2.00: error: { UNC }
Sep 24 15:46:35 Bigone kernel: [253198.700295] ata2.00: configured for
UDMA/133
Sep 24 15:46:35 Bigone kernel: [253198.700312] ata2: EH complete
Sep 24 15:46:38 Bigone kernel: [253202.065147] ata2.00: exception Emask
0x0 SAct 0x1 SErr 0x0 action 0x0
Sep 24 15:46:38 Bigone kernel: [253202.065157] ata2.00: irq_stat 0x4008
Sep 24 15:46:38 Bigone kernel: [253202.065164] ata2.00: failed command:
READ FPDMA QUEUED
Sep 24 15:46:38 Bigone kernel: [253202.065178] ata2.00: cmd
60/08:00:57:4a:d2/00:00:17:00:00/40 tag 0 ncq 4096 in
Sep 24 15:46:38 Bigone kernel: [253202.065181] res
41/40:00:5a:4a:d2/00:00:17:00:00/40 Emask 0x409 (media error)
Sep 24 15:46:38 Bigone kernel: [253202.065188] ata2.00: status: { DRDY ERR }
Sep 24 15:46:38 Bigone kernel: [253202.065192] ata2.00: error: { UNC }
Sep 24 15:46:38 Bigone kernel: [253202.067081] ata2.
Re: GGoogle chat vs Skype
That is true since I received the message in my inbox. I an including the contents below On Sat, 2011-09-24 at 13:28 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > You appear to have sent this only to me and not to the list. > > > poc > > On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 9:02 AM, Aaron Konstam > wrote: > > On Fri, 2011-09-23 at 16:55 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > On Fri, 2011-09-23 at 16:10 -0500, Aaron Konstam wrote: > > > On Fri, 2011-09-23 at 15:15 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan > wrote: > > > > On Fri, 2011-09-23 at 09:43 -0500, Aaron Konstam wrote: > > > > > I have long been intrigued wit having Skype-like > capabilities for my > > > > > computer. I recently looked at Google Chat which seems > to be similar and > > > > > is really easy to install and use (at least on my F14 > laptop). > > > > > > > > > > What am I missing by not using Skype? > > > > > > > > Multi-part conferencing (with the paid Skype option), > but see Google+ > > > > which also supports this. It's not clear if Google Chat > is going to > > > > survive. > > > > > > > > poc > > > > > > > > > > Google has another product called Google Voice that does > all that. > > > > The focus of Google Voice is among other things allow you to > manage all > > your POTS-style services such as call forwarding, screening > etc. (to > > oversimplify somewhat). However AFAIK Google Voice was until > recently > > only available in the US (Wikipedia says it was extended to > some other > > countries in August 2011 but it's not available where I am). > > > > And I'm not aware that it has any free multi-party > conferencing feature, > > but by all means correct me if I'm wrong. > > > > poc > > > > > I am not an expert on Google Voice, but from what I can gather > from the > book, "Google Voice for Dummies" Google Voice can do > multi-party > conferencing. My impression is these services are not free. > The book implies it can be used in countries other than the US > (on cell > phones at least) but the quality of service is worse than in > the US. > -- > > === > Life is cheap, but the accessories can kill you. > > > === > Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: > akons...@sbcglobal.net > > > > -- === We gotta get out of this place, If it's the last thing we ever do. -- The Animals === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akons...@sbcglobal.net -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: LXDE is an acceptable substitute for Gnome 2
On 09/24/2011 12:12 PM, Craig White wrote: > The flat earth people apparently don't want to believe that > the telephone in my pocket with an 854x480 screen is actually a computer > and yes, someday I just might want to be able to run Fedora or Ubuntu on > it. Please keep *argumentum ad hominem* out of this. It doesn't add anything to your point and alienates people who disagree with you for no good reason. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: "fans seems to work fine" & "It's not enough that they spin"...
Re: strange behaviour of my desktop "yes, fans seems to work fine..." "I'll add the obvious: It's not enough that they spin, there has to be airflow through the heatsink that the fans blow across, and throughout the cabinet. Also, heatsinks need to make good physical contact with what they're attached too." _ Worded twice as good as I could have.. "perfect!".. Adding to it: There's a LOT more to the "bad-fans syndrome".. If you sweep the rooms while the computer is running, some of that airborne-dust will be sucked into the tower.. Dust in brass fan-bushings causes heat build-up, which bakes the bearing surface, and bakes the dust into abrasive carbon, which is essentially "ultra-fine sandpaper", which wrecks bearings and bushings, which is why corporations spend $millions on clean-rooms for their computers... If the tower is set near a hot air vent, the fans will pull-in heat, and heat what they're supposed to be cooling... You know the CPU fan is failing, and/or plugged with dust, when the OS crashes every hour or so... You really know the CPU's heatsink is seriously dust plugged, when you smell hot dust and overheated electronic components, emitting from the tower... If the tower is set near a cold air vent, the fans will pull-in airborne dust whenever the computer is running... Open your towers, and check to see that the fans are silent, and the CPU's heatsink is absolutely dustfree.. If the fan is plugged-up with dust, your computer will eventually bake its hd into trash... Every old tower that one acquires, the first things to do are: Don't bring it straight into the home.. Bleach wash the case, then open it outside, upwind of it for-sure.. Those things are dust and bug collectors.. Bedbugs is nearly a global epidemic now.. Mites is already a global epidemic... Use air pressure, plus soft brush, to clean the tower inside.. Try to be upwind of the dust, that stuff is seriously bio-toxic.. Bleach what you can... Don't spray it with bug sprays.. Those sprays melt plastic, and damage eyes... Maybe someone could invent, build, and sell "tower dust cover boxes" to be set on top of towers, so all the air the tower gets is already filtered dustfree... Add a plastic duct-pipe for the tower's exhaust.. Not good to restrict cooling fan exhaust... Maybe RedHat could patent this filter-box, and make some good money on it.. a gift for allowing us to use this wonderful Fedora gem for free... Maybe there should be a link to send RedHat our ideas for them to make money with, in return for the great love they are sharing with humanity and you and me, in the form of "Fedora"... -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Does exactly what it says on the tin -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: LXDE is an acceptable substitute for Gnome 2
On 09/24/2011 10:40 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > On Sat, 2011-09-24 at 10:02 -0700, Daniel B. Thurman wrote: >> +1 > Did you read the part about trimming posts or is this some strange > postmodern joke? > > poc yes. ;) -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GGoogle chat vs Skype
On 09/24/2011 09:16 AM, Aaron Konstam wrote: > The phone company is glad to give me peoples phone numbers, so that > seems like a better way to reach people. Skype has a good lookup feature that allows you to find Skype IDs by entering either a real name or an email address. The lookup returns all three items for all matches it finds. -- Bob Nichols "NOSPAM" is really part of my email address. Do NOT delete it. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Disk Sleep ??
On 09/24/2011 02:56 PM, retired wrote: > 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 185 185 140Pre-fail Always > - 114 > 197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0032 192 192 000Old_age Always > - 428 That drive is seriously sick, with 114 bad sectors already reallocated and 428 more bad sectors that will be reallocated the next time they are written. Replace it immediately, and restore from your latest backup. -- Bob Nichols "NOSPAM" is really part of my email address. Do NOT delete it. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: LXDE is an acceptable substitute for Gnome 2
On Sat, 2011-09-24 at 13:03 -0700, Joe Zeff wrote: > On 09/24/2011 12:12 PM, Craig White wrote: > > The flat earth people apparently don't want to believe that > > the telephone in my pocket with an 854x480 screen is actually a computer > > and yes, someday I just might want to be able to run Fedora or Ubuntu on > > it. > > Please keep *argumentum ad hominem* out of this. It doesn't add > anything to your point and alienates people who disagree with you for no > good reason. fair enough though I'm not certain that it doesn't add anything to my point... especially when it comes in response to an overtly sarcastic comment, specifically: > lets > > not pretend you're gonna hold your laptop up to your face and make a > > call ... are you? You seem to be conveniently ignoring the context. Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: LXDE is an acceptable substitute for Gnome 2
On 09/24/2011 02:20 PM, Craig White wrote: > fair enough though I'm not certain that it doesn't add anything to my > point... especially when it comes in response to an overtly sarcastic > comment, specifically: > >> > lets >>> > > not pretend you're gonna hold your laptop up to your face and make a >>> > > call ... are you? > You seem to be conveniently ignoring the context. > No, I'm not ignoring the context, I'm pointing out that personal insults never add anything to a rational debate even if somebody else starts it. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GGoogle chat vs Skype
On 25/09/11 00:16, Aaron Konstam wrote: > On Sat, 2011-09-24 at 09:23 +1000, Roger wrote: >>> How are Skype users addressed? I suppose I am OK if I know their >>> telephone number. >> Skype, for me on Unbuntu and Fedora took about a few seconds to install. >> Read the skype instructions for how to use. >> To use, you need the skype addresses of the people you wish to contact, >> from memory there are lists of skype users that you can choose from. >> If yo want to telephone people using skype that's another matter. >> Roger > I assume you are saying that you can only contact people who use Skype > when their computers are on. > The phone company is glad to give me peoples phone numbers, so that > seems like a better way to reach people. But it seems to me that the > Google products allow Skype-like communication including video > conferencing. As I understand it, there seem to be 2 ways to use skype, ekiga, Bosix, etc and probably google. skype to skype, and skype to telephone. skype to skype is free of charge, that's the one I refer to. For skype to telephone you pay skype in advance by opening an account and can make calls as you wish to the value of the account. I would assume that would similarly apply to google. Some of my associates who are in frequent international contact have skype acounts. They have VOIP telephones and modems. Bigpond in Australia disables VOIP in the Thompson Gateway modems. Skype, Bosix and similar have video and conferencing, I discuss our Drupal cms development on skype conference and the others involved have video. I can see them, they cannot see me. Bandwidth is a problem in non city areas. Conference calls drop out very very often and this I feel would apply to any service which relies on copper cabling and inadequate resources in the exchanges. I read somewhere that greater stability can be purchased through/with an account. I use skype because my associates have it. Some however are going over to Bosix which is reputed to be more stable and more secure with better video and conferencing, I have no knowledge on this. Because google seems to be moving more to surveillance and marketing, I am unsettled with more than minimal use of such services. Hope this helps Roger -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: selinux is a pain
Hi Andreas, "SELinux has wasted too much time of my life over the years, so I decided to no longer use it. I keep my computers up to date and configure them properly. If that isn't enough, bad luck." You shoudn't have any problems at all... c'on, it's GNU/Linux! Even a local firewall is obsolete depending on what will be your system used for :D And as you say SELinux is intrinsically complicated and bloated. If you ever need such type of protection try Tomoyo, something between SELinux and Apparmor but better and actively developed. -- msx -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
CUPS/LPD Configuration problem
I have an HP LaserJet 1300 connected to thru a parallel to USB converter. Configuration on F13 was easy; F14 discovered the printer by itself. Now, with F15 I can't figure out how to navigate through the CUPS options. an anyone provide me some direction? Thanks. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: LXDE is an acceptable substitute for Gnome 2
On Sat, 2011-09-24 at 14:32 -0700, Joe Zeff wrote: > On 09/24/2011 02:20 PM, Craig White wrote: > > fair enough though I'm not certain that it doesn't add anything to my > > point... especially when it comes in response to an overtly sarcastic > > comment, specifically: > > > >> > lets > >>> > > not pretend you're gonna hold your laptop up to your face and make a > >>> > > call ... are you? > > You seem to be conveniently ignoring the context. > > > > No, I'm not ignoring the context, I'm pointing out that personal insults > never add anything to a rational debate even if somebody else starts it. then you just fail to see the similarity between those who believed the earth was flat after Columbus returned to Spain and those who actually believe that holding a laptop to your face is their only concept of a computer driven telephone. If you want to believe it's an insult - that's your choice. I think it's rather analogous. This is not the first time that you have impressed me with your ability to create inference out of your own impressions. Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: selinux is a pain
On Sat, 2011-09-24 at 21:19 -0300, Martin Cigorraga wrote: > Hi Andreas, > "SELinux has wasted too much time of my life over the years, > so I decided to no longer use it. I keep my computers up to date > and configure them properly. If that isn't enough, bad luck." > > You shoudn't have any problems at all... c'on, it's GNU/Linux! Even a > local > firewall is obsolete depending on what will be your system used for :D > And as you say SELinux is intrinsically complicated and bloated. If > you > ever need such type of protection try Tomoyo, something between > SELinux and Apparmor but better and actively developed. don't know about tomoyo. Have some experience with apparmor on Ubuntu (seems weak / barely implemented / easily defeated) and of course SELinux. It seems that the team working on SELinux has substantially grown, the tools have matured, the processes more deeply identified and the support greatly enhanced and thus by any definition... actively developed. Your choice not to use it is of course your own but I can assure you that it is indeed possible to use it, create a reasonably effective security layer through it with a minimum level of difficulty - or at least a manageable level of difficulty if you are pre-disposed to creating files in one location and moving them to an entirely different location which is certain to create contextual problems. Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: LXDE is an acceptable substitute for Gnome 2
On 09/24/2011 07:36 PM, Craig White wrote: > I think it's rather analogous. > > This is not the first time that you have impressed me with your ability > to create inference out of your own impressions. > It may or may not be a valid analogy, but it's certainly phrased in an insulting way. I'll not speculate as to whether or not that's what you intended but it is what you achieved. As far as my inferences go, that's what inference is all about, as you can see here: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/inference -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: LXDE is an acceptable substitute for Gnome 2
On 09/24/2011 05:20 PM, Craig White wrote: > >> lets >>> not pretend you're gonna hold your laptop up to your face and make a >>> call ... are you? > > You seem to be conveniently ignoring the context. > > Craig > > So did you a bit - I put a smiley in there ... my comment was light hearted ... and the smiley was to make that clear ... the vision of an ipad held to ones cheek makes me smile anyway ... -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: LXDE is an acceptable substitute for Gnome 2
Can we get back to LXDE, GNOME or anything Fedora related? -- Regards, Olav -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: selinux is a pain
On 09/24/2011 09:43 PM, Craig White wrote: >if you are pre-disposed to > creating files in one location and moving them to an entirely different > location which is certain to create contextual problems. If there is a reasonably small set of locations into which you are habitually moving files, you can always configure the 'restorecond' daemon to monitor those locations and set the proper contexts. -- Bob Nichols "NOSPAM" is really part of my email address. Do NOT delete it. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
