[Unity-design] Applications lens

[balint...@gmail.com]

Dear Ayatana team,
The default lenses currently has some unclear issues for me. Take the
applicatrions lens for example. What is the reasoning behind having
multiple-selection tool in the adwanced search bar? Why would someone want
to select eg. development and accessibility simultaneously? In what
use-case would it be useful? If i have internet apps selected, and want to
take a look at office apps, it takes at least two clicks now: select office
apps, and deselect internet apps. A single-selection tool would be much
more useful here
Also, why would someone like to select applications rated for only 1 or 2
stars? Again I do not find it useful. A switch to order by rating, name etc
would be more like it.
An other nice feature would be the ability to reorganize the icons in the
app lens. I think it makes the application overview feel much friendly.

Thanks for reading!
Csonka Bálint


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Re: [Unity-design] Applications lens

[balint...@gmail.com]

Well... if someone does know what he is looking for, then he begins typing
in the search field. These category-listings are for program discovery I
believe.

Ian Santopietro 2012. február 20., hétfő napon a következőt írta:

> My understanding is that these are built using standard Unity APIs,

and that there are other instances (Like the Music Lens or Video Lens)
> where selecting multiple sources or genres would be useful.
>

Im sure filters can be specified from the lens-side.


>
> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 00:07, balint...@gmail.com  <
> balint...@gmail.com > wrote:
> > Dear Ayatana team,
> > The default lenses currently has some unclear issues for me. Take the
> > applicatrions lens for example. What is the reasoning behind having
> > multiple-selection tool in the adwanced search bar? Why would someone
> want
> > to select eg. development and accessibility simultaneously? In what
> use-case
> > would it be useful? If i have internet apps selected, and want to take a
> > look at office apps, it takes at least two clicks now: select office
> apps,
> > and deselect internet apps. A single-selection tool would be much more
> > useful here
> > Also, why would someone like to select applications rated for only 1 or 2
> > stars? Again I do not find it useful. A switch to order by rating, name
> etc
> > would be more like it.
> > An other nice feature would be the ability to reorganize the icons in the
> > app lens. I think it makes the application overview feel much friendly.
> >
> > Thanks for reading!
> > Csonka Bálint
> >
> >
> > --
> > Csonka Bálint @913
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Csonka Bálint @913
> >
> >
> > --
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> > Post to : unity-design@lists.launchpad.net 
> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~unity-design
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> Ian Santopietro
>
> Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>
> "Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast
>  Ofer middangeard monnum sended"
>
> Pa gur yv y porthaur?
>
> Public GPG key (RSA):
>
> http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x412F52DB1BBF1234
>


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Re: [Unity-design] Apps available for download suggestions should be kept for searches.

[balint...@gmail.com]

Absolutely agreed.

Omar B. 2012. február 24., péntek napon a következőt írta:

>  So the only way i would get a "porn" app is if i explicitly / actively
> search for it, then i would find the recommendation useful and probably
> install it (drag to launcher) or clicking it and read more info in usc.
>


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Re: [Unity-design] Unity Scrollbars with a touch screen are very hard to use.

[balint...@gmail.com]

2012.02.27. 12:53, "balint...@gmail.com"  ezt írta:

> Some kind of kinetic scrolling would help you there. I read rometime
> gtk+3.4 or later might implement it, but I dont know much about the
> progress.
> 2012.02.27. 12:46, "Chris Woollard"  ezt írta:
>
>> I have been testing 12.04 with a touch screen kiosk display and I have
>> noticed that scroll bars in unity are extremely difficult to use as the
>> point that you need to grab is very small, and is fingers are not
>> particularly accurate.
>>
>> Is there anything that can be done about this?
>>
>> thanks
>> chris
>>
>>
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[Unity-design] Data sharing protocoll in Ubuntu

[balint...@gmail.com]

Sorry if it was discussed before, anyway...
I have been using Android and Windows 8 recently quite a lot. These two
guys have one pretty clever feature, i would certainly like to have in
Ubuntu. Its their data-sharing protocoll.
Basically applications have the ability to register one of their methods to
share data held by them through a protocoll to an other application. This
makes literally every application compatible with each other.

Applications would be able to:

   - Register a method for messaging -> no need to iplement switches in
   every application to turn notifications off, because the desktop can
   control it.
   - Register method for sharing the data it holds -> Files could be
   immediately retrieved from various sources.
   - Register itself for certain file types -> User immediately offered
   those apps when opens a file.

Well... there could be tons of roles an application could be regitered to.
There is an initiative in elementary os already:
http://elementaryos.org/docs/human-interface-guidelines/desktop-integration/contractor

What do you think we could use this for? Do we have something likely
already?


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Re: [Unity-design] design, give a suitable direction forward

[balint...@gmail.com]

Mark,
Talking about Fitt's law, in the design expanding the Launcher in the whole
height the BFB would take the corner spot away from window controls, thats
right. This could be a problem because window controls are hidden by
default, but being in the corner makes them more easily discoverable by
accident.

One fix in my opinion could be making the* window controls always
visible*when a window is in maximized mode. That way only the global
menu and the
window title would fade to each other. The unmaximized behavior could
remain unchanged. Expanding the Launcher or implementing the
sliding-desktop behavior would be almost identical in this case.

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2012/4/14 Pedro Bessa 

> Hi,
>
> design, can you decide what's remaining to decide, then write the suitable
> direction forward at 
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/**unity/+bug/873541to
>  make that bug report be marked triaged?
>
>
> Best regards,
> Pedro Bessa
>
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Re: [Unity-design] question

[balint...@gmail.com]

I have changed my HUD trigger to ctrl just to try how it would act. I can
say after an hour of heavy text-editing HUD activated about 50 times from
which about 2 was intentional. I think it pretty much gets in the way
rather than help with ctrl.

2012/4/14 Evan Huus 

> On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 3:23 PM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad <
> joerlend.schins...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Den 14. april 2012 20:25, skrev Josh Strawbridge:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> i use my little/small/pinkie finger to hit ctrl.  i find it much more
>>> comfortable than hitting alt with my thumb. i've never found alt to be a
>>> comfortable reach.
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>> I tried to understand how that's possible, but it's a little bit
>> difficult. When I have my hands in the resting position, my left thumb is
>> about one inch from the left alt-key. I would've preferred it to be a
>> little to the right, at the cost of a slightly smaller space bar, but it's
>> still easily accessible to me. At the very least, it's much more
>> comfortable than the Ctrl-key, which requires me to lift my arm or twist my
>> hand.
>>
>> Do you have a weird keyboard, or do you have weird hands? :)
>>
>
> Whatever he has, I have it too :)
>
> With my hands in resting position, Alt is just to the left of where my
> thumb naturally rests on the spacebar. Super (AKA 'Windows') is just to the
> left of that, and Ctrl is just to the left of that. Ctrl, Super and Alt are
> all approximately the same size. With my hands in resting position, my left
> pinkie rests on the 'A' key. If I move it down a fraction of an inch, it's
> on left-shift, and if I move it down another fraction of an inch it's on
> the left Ctrl key. Both are comfortable movements. This is on a 'pure'
> american-english keyboard - does yours have some extra keys for Norwegian
> that change the layout?
>
> Evan
>
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Re: [Unity-design] question

[balint...@gmail.com]

...at least with its current behavior. Having hud on ctrl would make sense
I think if:
1. It activated on a timeout ater pressing and holding ctrl.
2. One could type the desired command while holdgin ctrl (This would need
incorporating current common keyboard shortcuts like ctrl+c )
3. HUD would execute the command on the release of ctrl.

But this would need a larger re-design and by no means would it make to
12.04

2012/4/14 balint...@gmail.com 

> I have changed my HUD trigger to ctrl just to try how it would act. I can
> say after an hour of heavy text-editing HUD activated about 50 times from
> which about 2 was intentional. I think it pretty much gets in the way
> rather than help with ctrl.
>
> 2012/4/14 Evan Huus 
>
>> On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 3:23 PM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad <
>> joerlend.schins...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Den 14. april 2012 20:25, skrev Josh Strawbridge:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> i use my little/small/pinkie finger to hit ctrl.  i find it much more
>>>> comfortable than hitting alt with my thumb. i've never found alt to be a
>>>> comfortable reach.
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I tried to understand how that's possible, but it's a little bit
>>> difficult. When I have my hands in the resting position, my left thumb is
>>> about one inch from the left alt-key. I would've preferred it to be a
>>> little to the right, at the cost of a slightly smaller space bar, but it's
>>> still easily accessible to me. At the very least, it's much more
>>> comfortable than the Ctrl-key, which requires me to lift my arm or twist my
>>> hand.
>>>
>>> Do you have a weird keyboard, or do you have weird hands? :)
>>>
>>
>> Whatever he has, I have it too :)
>>
>> With my hands in resting position, Alt is just to the left of where my
>> thumb naturally rests on the spacebar. Super (AKA 'Windows') is just to the
>> left of that, and Ctrl is just to the left of that. Ctrl, Super and Alt are
>> all approximately the same size. With my hands in resting position, my left
>> pinkie rests on the 'A' key. If I move it down a fraction of an inch, it's
>> on left-shift, and if I move it down another fraction of an inch it's on
>> the left Ctrl key. Both are comfortable movements. This is on a 'pure'
>> american-english keyboard - does yours have some extra keys for Norwegian
>> that change the layout?
>>
>> Evan
>>
>> --
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Csonka Bálint* @913
>
>


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Re: [Unity-design] exhausted from suggesting

[balint...@gmail.com]

>
> please do not kill yourself




> 2012/4/27 Pedro Bessa 
>
>> Hi people,
>>
>> I suggested lots of things to you, Firefox and Google. See the end of my
>> blog at
>> http://pedbessa.blogspot.com/ My suggestions must have only inspired you,
>> because they weren't built-in, so I'm going to change my strategy, but I
>> don't know
>> what I'm going to do yet.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Pedro Bessa
>>
>> --
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>> https://launchpad.net/~unity-**design
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>
>
>
> --
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>
>


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Re: [Unity-design] Fwd: Thoughts on the top left corner? Can it be done better or prettier?

[balint...@gmail.com]

I'm not sure, if you are reading this list or just spamming it constantly.

2012/5/17 Pedro Bessa 

>
>
>  Mensagem original   Assunto: Thoughts on the top left
> corner? Can it be done better or prettier?  Data: Mon, 05 Mar 2012
> 21:00:52 -  De: shane
> Responder
> a: shanePara: Pedro Bessa
>  
>
> Something has been bugging me about unity ever since the the behaviour
> of the window buttons was changed to hide with the global menu.
>
> That thing is the top left corner of the desktop:
> [image: Screenshot at 2012/03/05 20:24:22] 
> 
>
> With the default setup of launcher always showing and a maximized
> window, that top left just looks odd to me.
> When the window buttons were visible, the window title and global menu
> lined up with the maximized window and everything looked normal.
> Since the behaviour was changed it is like that left part of the menu
> bar is overhanging the window and no longer looks part of it, if that
> makes sense.  It just looks terribly ugly to me.
> Although it has no direct affect on usablity, I just find it incredibly
> distracting and I just cannot take my eyes away from the area.
>
> I have added a second screenshot which shows the launcher icons at their
> smallest size and the window buttons visible.
> Again, this looks odd in the way the buttons overhang and make things
> look odd again.
> [image: Screenshot at 2012/03/05 20:25:40] 
> 
>
> I'm not sure what the alternatives are but I would be interested to hear
> other people's thoughts on this?
> I cannot help but feel such a visual glitch (for want of a better
> phrase) would never be allowed in other major environments (Windows, OS
> X, KDE Gnome 3 etc).
>
>
>
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Re: [Unity-design] Borderless light-themes

[balint...@gmail.com]

+1 for the idea


> 2012/5/28 Bilal Akhtar 
>
>> That's because the bugs requesting border less themes were marked fixed,
>> and not updated when the change was reverted. The wishlist one is marked
>> fixed because it is "fixed for the time being" in light themes, and a long
>> term solution is what I'm starting this thread for.
>>
>> Sorry for any typing errors, wrote this on a smartphone.
>>
>> Bilal Akhtar.
>> On May 27, 2012 10:32 PM, "Daniel Hollocher" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 9:05 PM, Bilal Akhtar wrote:
>>>
 Hello all!

 Back around the end of the Natty cycle, Ubuntu's light-themes went
 borderless [1,2]. Then, a few days later, the change was reverted due
 to issues in metacity and unity-2d [3] and a new bug was filed for
 tracking the bugs in metacity [4]. All of those bugs haven't had any
 activity for a year.

>>>
>>>  All the bugs are marked "Fix Released".
>>>
>>
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>>
>
>
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>
>


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Re: [Unity-design] holy shit! your competition did it

[balint...@gmail.com]

 You are such a hero for opening our blind eyes.

2012/5/28 SorinN 
>
>> before your Holly Shift man,
>> think that not all peoples around here can wear your pants
>> please be respectful - this is a community not a circle of 3 friends
>> around the block
>> doesn't matter - high rank or low rank - in this community no one
>> should talk on this manner
>>
>>
>> 2012/5/28 Pedro Bessa :
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > with Gnome Shell Extensions, programmers can change the Gnome interface!
>> >
>> > from Gnome-Tweak-Tool, users can turn on or off a Gnome Shell Extension!
>> >
>> > Linus Torvalds said: "Hey, with gnome-tweak-tool and the dock extension,
>> > gnome-3.2 is starting to look almost usable."
>> > - https://plus.google.com/102150693225130002912/posts/WTLyn7dqYoR
>> >
>> > from the official Gnome Shell Extension web site, users can download,
>> > then install a Gnome Shell Extension!
>> > - https://extensions.gnome.org/
>> >
>> >
>> > do you remember, people?
>> > I used to ask:
>> > - let programmers reposition, add, edit and remove anything
>> > in the Ubuntu interface
>> > - let users install apps that change the Ubuntu interface from
>> > Ubuntu Software Center
>> >
>> >
>> > since Unity competes with Gnome Shell, Unity Extensions
>> > will have to be better than Gnome Shell Extensions
>> >
>> >
>> > without downloading, burning and installing a new distro,
>> > you can see what I asked:
>> > 1. install Gnome Shell (less than 30 MB) from Terminal
>> > 2. log out -> where Unity is, select Gnome not Gnome Classic -> log in
>> > 3. install Gnome Shell Extensions from PPA
>> > 4. install Gnome Tweak Tool from Ubuntu Software Center
>> > 5. run Gnome Tweak Tool from Terminal
>> > 6. select Gnome Shell Extensions
>> > 7. turn Dock and Applications Menu on
>> > done! you changed the Gnome interface twice! isn't that cool?
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> > Pedro Bessa
>> >
>> > --
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Nemes Ioan Sorin
>>
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Re: [Unity-design] Desktop as a widget space.

[balint...@gmail.com]

Sorry Sunil Singh Rana, I posted my mail again to the wrong address...

Widgets mainly are for displaying basic information like mail, weather
data, news feed, facebook notifications, etc without having to open a full
destop program. In my opinion there is no relevant difference in
Microsoft's Tiles-concept, the widgets, or therse badges with counters and
progressbars (like in the iPhone's home or the Unity launcher). Each serve
the same purpose: displaying live and immediate data.
I think rather than implementing widgets, we should extend the launcher
api, with more widgets/controls/or whatever they are called. Enabling the
application to display more sophisticated immediate data (Eg. a weather
launcher-icon could benefit from dynamically changeing its icon to a cloud,
or a sun, display temperature in the counter, also with units. A Facebook
launcher-icon could display tiny icons near its couner, indicating what
kind of event happened. And so on, and so forth...).
With further extending the launcher api we could reach much better
functionality then with widgets, or even tiles. At least as I see.

sincerelly Csonka Bálint

2012/5/29 balint...@gmail.com 

> Widgets mainly are for displaying basic information like mail, weather
> data, news feed, facebook notifications, etc without having to open a full
> destop program. In my opinion there is no relevant difference in
> Microsoft's Tiles-concept, the widgets, or therse badges with counters and
> progressbars (like in the iPhone's home or the Unity launcher). Each serve
> the same purpose: displaying live and immediate data.
> I think rather than implementing widgets, we should extend the launcher
> api, with more widgets/controls/or whatever they are called. Enabling the
> application to display more sophisticated immediate data (Eg. a weather
> launcher-icon could benefit from dynamically changeing its icon to a cloud,
> or a sun, display temperature in the counter, also with units. A Facebook
> launcher-icon could display tiny icons near its couner, indicating what
> kind of event happened. And so on, and so forth...).
> With further extending the launcher api we could reach much better
> functionality then with widgets, or even tiles.
>
>
> 2012/5/29 Sunil Singh Rana 
>
>>
>> widgets in
>>
>> On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 4:21 PM, Thorsten Wilms  wrote:
>>
>>> On 05/29/2012 03:30 AM, Sunil Singh Rana wrote:
>>>
>>>  *Why not be make Desktop a widget space.* Widgets that are locked or
>>>>
>>>> unlocked (to manage them) by some key combination, or a dedicated mouse
>>>> gesture. We could also put a lens on Dash called Desktop which would
>>>> look like a desktop and will allow us to manage all our widgets.
>>>>
>>>
>>> How about asking "why?" before asking "why not?"
>>>
>> I agree. I guess for the same reason we display some information under
>> the glass sheet, as I mentioned earlier. It gives a sneak peek into the
>> updated information, without having to move my mouse and click somewhere.
>>
>> *Does it appeal to the user? I think it is not very hard to find some
>> data from Google Play to check the number of installs of 'beautiful
>> widgets' ( 100,000 < installs < 500,000). Beautiful widgets are free to
>> download. If we go for HD widgets which costs some 2 dollar per install has
>> the number of installs in the same range. Data shows that widgets do appeal
>> to the user.*
>>
>> In android widgets have been a huge success. In fact, widgets have given
>> android a lot of advantage against Iphone. I keep reading, widgets as often
>> requested feature by Iphone Users, in the upcoming version of iOS.
>>
>> But anyway, regarding why not:
>>> - Users have to become aware of the widget functionality somehow
>>> (otherwise there can be no benefit, only cost)
>>> - It adds a potentially hard to understand distinction between windows
>>> of normal applications and widgets. After figuring out how to manage
>>> windows, users are expected to also figure out how to manage widgets?
>>> - Cost of yet another key combo and/or gesture
>>> - Widgets will need some visibility and stacking behavior that has to be
>>> specified, implemented, tested and documented. The desktop as it is now,
>>> with just the addition of widgets. would mean that any application window
>>> would always be above any widget ...
>>>
>>
>> I get your point and agree that it poses risks.
>>
>>>
>>> A lot of cost and risk. What are the potential benefits, the opportunity?
>>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: [Unity-design] Desktop as a widget space.

[balint...@gmail.com]

Do you remember Docky's
docklets<http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-946RxcbSjwg/TmiKsPLUpGI/SMU/L-RNwovLmIk/s1600/Docky-Ubuntu-Unity-Launcher-Alternatives.jpg>?
I am sure I'm not he only one who loved them. They could do anything a
widget is for.

2012/5/29 balint...@gmail.com 

> Sorry Sunil Singh Rana, I posted my mail again to the wrong address...
>
> Widgets mainly are for displaying basic information like mail, weather
> data, news feed, facebook notifications, etc without having to open a full
> destop program. In my opinion there is no relevant difference in
> Microsoft's Tiles-concept, the widgets, or therse badges with counters and
> progressbars (like in the iPhone's home or the Unity launcher). Each serve
> the same purpose: displaying live and immediate data.
> I think rather than implementing widgets, we should extend the launcher
> api, with more widgets/controls/or whatever they are called. Enabling the
> application to display more sophisticated immediate data (Eg. a weather
> launcher-icon could benefit from dynamically changeing its icon to a cloud,
> or a sun, display temperature in the counter, also with units. A Facebook
> launcher-icon could display tiny icons near its couner, indicating what
> kind of event happened. And so on, and so forth...).
> With further extending the launcher api we could reach much better
> functionality then with widgets, or even tiles. At least as I see.
>
> sincerelly Csonka Bálint
>
> 2012/5/29 balint...@gmail.com 
>
> Widgets mainly are for displaying basic information like mail, weather
>> data, news feed, facebook notifications, etc without having to open a full
>> destop program. In my opinion there is no relevant difference in
>> Microsoft's Tiles-concept, the widgets, or therse badges with counters and
>> progressbars (like in the iPhone's home or the Unity launcher). Each serve
>> the same purpose: displaying live and immediate data.
>> I think rather than implementing widgets, we should extend the launcher
>> api, with more widgets/controls/or whatever they are called. Enabling the
>> application to display more sophisticated immediate data (Eg. a weather
>> launcher-icon could benefit from dynamically changeing its icon to a cloud,
>> or a sun, display temperature in the counter, also with units. A Facebook
>> launcher-icon could display tiny icons near its couner, indicating what
>> kind of event happened. And so on, and so forth...).
>> With further extending the launcher api we could reach much better
>> functionality then with widgets, or even tiles.
>>
>>
>> 2012/5/29 Sunil Singh Rana 
>>
>>>
>>> widgets in
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 4:21 PM, Thorsten Wilms  wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 05/29/2012 03:30 AM, Sunil Singh Rana wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  *Why not be make Desktop a widget space.* Widgets that are locked or
>>>>>
>>>>> unlocked (to manage them) by some key combination, or a dedicated mouse
>>>>> gesture. We could also put a lens on Dash called Desktop which would
>>>>> look like a desktop and will allow us to manage all our widgets.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How about asking "why?" before asking "why not?"
>>>>
>>> I agree. I guess for the same reason we display some information under
>>> the glass sheet, as I mentioned earlier. It gives a sneak peek into the
>>> updated information, without having to move my mouse and click somewhere.
>>>
>>> *Does it appeal to the user? I think it is not very hard to find some
>>> data from Google Play to check the number of installs of 'beautiful
>>> widgets' ( 100,000 < installs < 500,000). Beautiful widgets are free to
>>> download. If we go for HD widgets which costs some 2 dollar per install has
>>> the number of installs in the same range. Data shows that widgets do appeal
>>> to the user.*
>>>
>>> In android widgets have been a huge success. In fact, widgets have given
>>> android a lot of advantage against Iphone. I keep reading, widgets as often
>>> requested feature by Iphone Users, in the upcoming version of iOS.
>>>
>>> But anyway, regarding why not:
>>>> - Users have to become aware of the widget functionality somehow
>>>> (otherwise there can be no benefit, only cost)
>>>> - It adds a potentially hard to understand distinction between windows
>>>> of normal applications and widgets. After figuring out how to manage
>>>> windows, users are expected to also figure out how t

Re: [Unity-design] dropping the top panel shadow

[balint...@gmail.com]

I dont like this idea.
The shadow indicates whether the panel currently is a part of a the window
we see or not. And the GTK theming is necessary because the panel sometimes
is the part of a window. It would just look odd with a dash-like theming.

2012/6/3 Thorsten Wilms 

> On 06/03/2012 09:45 AM, Alan Bell wrote:
>
>> Visually I don't think the shadow really adds anything to the desktop
>> experience
>>
>
> Windows "cast" a shadow on the desktop to create the impression that they
> float above the desktop and are not part of it.
>
> A (non-maximized) window's titlebar touching the panel defines the upper
> limit for its position (except if you use 
> modifier-key-bound-to-window-**control-in-prefs
> and left-drag ... but that can be considered a bug).
>
> This implies that the panel exists on the same layer as the (focused and
> raised) window and thus must have about the same shadow.
>
>
> --
> Thorsten Wilms
>
> thorwil's design for free software:
> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/
>
>
> --
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> https://launchpad.net/~unity-**design
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Re: [Unity-design] Simplifying the interaction of Unity Dash

[balint...@gmail.com]

Dear Unity design,
I do think categorization here is a bad idea. On which basis do we
categorize apps? How do we know that our predefied categories will fit
everyone? Take for example Thunderbird or Empathy. They could be in a
productivity, or a messaging category also, apart from being internet
related. I coud categorize based on other things like "this app is used
at work/home/on special occasions". I may have no games/development
tools installed, and dont need a games/devtools category at all.
I do think it is best to leave that categorization to the user. And it is
done best by sorting them to pages. With that concept we could still
pre-define categories, but let the user customize them the way he wants.

Yours sincerelly, Bálint Csonka
2012/6/14 pjssi...@gmail.com 

> This is a follow up from my former e-mail. Gnome shell is getting rid
> of application categories completely:
>
> http://worldofgnome.org/gnome-shell-gets-its-first-facelift/
>
> I hope there isn't any such plans to Unity... I'll migrate my whole
> family to Unity after the next upgrade.
>
> I still hope that Unity, more specifically the Application Lens, can
> better support browsing by categories in the future.
>
> best,
>
> Paulo
>
>
> 2012/6/12 pjssi...@gmail.com :
> > I will use the opportunity to point out one of the major problems in
> > the Dash, IMHO. IN my home I am the only one using unity, my two sons
> > and my wife use Gnome and The Dash is the reason.
> >
> > Let me explain. I thin the Dash is very good to find applications and
> > documents by searching. It is great to type two letters and get the
> > application you want, much faster than using the mouse. I love it and
> > I have already starting using such work flow with gnome-do under the
> > "old" Gnome 2 days.
> >
> > Why do I use Unity and the rest of the family doesn't? The reason is
> > that I am very different from the rest of the family. I am computer
> > literate, using computers for programming since I was 10 years old (I
> > am 39 now). I am a computer scientist. I am a typist, so I feel very
> > comfortable to use the keyboard instead of the mouse. I know all the
> > applications that are installed in our computers, so I know what to
> > search easily. In short I prefer to search rather the to browse
> > applications.
> >
> > But my two sons are young. 9 and 5 years old. They don't use the
> > keyboard to type and the youngest is illiterate. For them it is much
> > more natural to browse the installed applications, specially the
> > "Games" and "Educational" section. Right now the Dash is not good for
> > this. First when you click it, it defaults to search. Even if you
> > always move to the applications lens first, the Dash does not learn
> > this behavior and starts again in the Home lens in the next time. It
> > would be nice to be able to select the default lens in dash (or make
> > it learn your preference, which would be much nicer).
> >
> > OK, I can teach my sons to open the application lens (I did the
> > similar thing in gnome shell).
> >
> > Now the next pitfall, the application lens does not show the
> > applications categories by default, you have to open it (and even if
> > you always do, the lens will forget it once you log out and we do log
> > out in my place where we have one computer with two heads for four
> > people). So there are already two clicks before they can see the
> > categories. Now the categories in the application lens are not
> > exclusive, they behave like tags. So if you look at the education
> > section and after that want to take a break and play a game, you have
> > to first "un-select" the education category and only then select
> > games. Once again extra clicks. Another problem that generate extra
> > mouse clicks is that if the desired game is not in the first row of
> > the installed games, you need an extra click to expand all results.
> > This option is also forgotten once you log out.
> >
> > I am sorry, but the above work flow is very convoluted and complicated
> > to explain to a five year old. Let me recall it: "Click application
> > lens", "Open the category browser", "Select your category (maybe you
> > want to un-select an old category)", "Expand results", and, finally,
> > find the game you want!
> >
> > I do believe that the Dash and in particular the application lens
> > should better accommodate browsing for applications. Here are my
> > specific suggestions:
> >
> > 1) The Dash should learn that you usually prefer a specific lens and
> > open it as default.
> >
> > 2) The application lens should have the categories open by default.
> >
> > 3) The application lens should show all the results by default if the
> > option to *not* show installable applications is set.
> >
> > 3.5) If it is not possible to have the defaults in 2 or 3, the
> > application lens should recall its state between sessions. Then I
> > could do a first set up for my kids and then give then a better system
> > for their workflow.

Re: [Unity-design] Simplifying the interaction of Unity Dash

[balint...@gmail.com]

Der Paulo,
Thank you for your reply. In my opinion appications on a default install
could still be distributed to named pages based on categories, but I dont
really like this idea.
Sorting applications into categories is raised by having way too much icons
in the dash, which I think is another problem. We currently have more than
5-7 icons for System settings, 4 icons for libreoffice and many other which
are not really applicatons.
For great discoverability I think we had best have only one page of
applicarions in the aplications lens, and al these special quick links
like"install drivers" sould be shown only when search is being done.
2012/6/15 pjssi...@gmail.com 

> I agree that the user should be allowed to adapt the categories.
> Actually this was already possible in gnome 2 using the right mouse
> button and editing the menu. I believe that in this case a special
> .desktop files is created overriding the original one (probably in
> ~/.local/share/apps). Maybe this still works now but a good UI is
> missing?
>
> However I do believe that is is much better to have a starting point,
> specially for discovery and exploring the system. The use case here is
> someone who doesn't know the apps in the system and want to browse
> them. The original categories can give the person a hint on the app
> function.
>
For a starting point the application icon, should be enough to decide what
an app is for (it is a Must, for th default application set).

>
> best,
>
> Paulo
>
>
> 2012/6/14 balint...@gmail.com :
> > Dear Unity design,
> > I do think categorization here is a bad idea. On which basis do we
> > categorize apps? How do we know that our predefied categories will fit
> > everyone? Take for example Thunderbird or Empathy. They could be in a
> > productivity, or a messaging category also, apart from being internet
> > related. I coud categorize based on other things like "this app is used
> > at work/home/on special occasions". I may have no games/development
> > tools installed, and dont need a games/devtools category at all.
> > I do think it is best to leave that categorization to the user. And it is
> > done best by sorting them to pages. With that concept we could still
> > pre-define categories, but let the user customize them the way he wants.
> >
> > Yours sincerelly, Bálint Csonka
> > 2012/6/14 pjssi...@gmail.com 
> >
> >> This is a follow up from my former e-mail. Gnome shell is getting rid
> >> of application categories completely:
> >>
> >> http://worldofgnome.org/gnome-shell-gets-its-first-facelift/
> >>
> >> I hope there isn't any such plans to Unity... I'll migrate my whole
> >> family to Unity after the next upgrade.
> >>
> >> I still hope that Unity, more specifically the Application Lens, can
> >> better support browsing by categories in the future.
> >>
> >> best,
> >>
> >> Paulo
> >>
> >>
> >> 2012/6/12 pjssi...@gmail.com :
> >> > I will use the opportunity to point out one of the major problems in
> >> > the Dash, IMHO. IN my home I am the only one using unity, my two sons
> >> > and my wife use Gnome and The Dash is the reason.
> >> >
> >> > Let me explain. I thin the Dash is very good to find applications and
> >> > documents by searching. It is great to type two letters and get the
> >> > application you want, much faster than using the mouse. I love it and
> >> > I have already starting using such work flow with gnome-do under the
> >> > "old" Gnome 2 days.
> >> >
> >> > Why do I use Unity and the rest of the family doesn't? The reason is
> >> > that I am very different from the rest of the family. I am computer
> >> > literate, using computers for programming since I was 10 years old (I
> >> > am 39 now). I am a computer scientist. I am a typist, so I feel very
> >> > comfortable to use the keyboard instead of the mouse. I know all the
> >> > applications that are installed in our computers, so I know what to
> >> > search easily. In short I prefer to search rather the to browse
> >> > applications.
> >> >
> >> > But my two sons are young. 9 and 5 years old. They don't use the
> >> > keyboard to type and the youngest is illiterate. For them it is much
> >> > more natural to browse the installed applications, specially the
> >> > "Games" and "Educational" section. Right now the Dash is not good for
> >> > this. First when you cli

Re: [Unity-design] Simplifying the interaction of Unity Dash

[balint...@gmail.com]

You are right, most people do not want to waste much time with
customization. Neither do I.
I guess we can agree there are two main caterories we can set in terms of
users: Those who use the keyboard fast and those who do not.
Being a developer I use my computer like all day, and like to use the
keyboard for almost everything. Quick access is granted for me by the
search method. On the other hand my dad uses the pc with the mouse onyl in
most of the time. He does not bother going through those weird controls and
unfolding lists in the dash. Those are a hard-to-follow concept even for
me, and ordinary people like my dad does not even bother using them.
On iOS, and Android pages grant a wery simple approach for having an
overview. No unfolding, no categories, but *ability to sort the icons*.
Even if i dont want to customize, if I used an app, I'd be happy to see it
in the *same place* i saw it last time, and that is why people understand
the iPhone's home concept the first time they get it in ther hands. Thats
the way human mind works.

2012/6/15 Thorsten Wilms 

> On 06/15/2012 02:28 AM, balint...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Dear Unity design,
>> I do think categorization here is a bad idea. On which basis do we
>> categorize apps? How do we know that our predefied categories will fit
>> everyone? Take for example Thunderbird or Empathy. They could be in a
>> productivity, or a messaging category also, apart from being internet
>> related. I coud categorize based on other things like "this app is used
>> at work/home/on special occasions". I may have no games/development
>> tools installed, and dont need a games/devtools category at all.
>> I do think it is best to leave that categorization to the user. And it
>> is done best by sorting them to pages. With that concept we could still
>> pre-define categories, but let the user customize them the way he wants.
>>
>
> I think it's save to say that by far the most users want to quickly access
> applications and sometimes need an overview. They do not want to manage
> applications. It's a shortcoming of the system, if they feel a need to.
>
> Of course categorization is not always easy. As a counter example,
> consider a "Games" category: it's obvious in almost all cases and a user
> wanting to see all available games categorized as such is a realistic
> scenario.
>
>
> Some often vocal users, who I would assume to be a minority all in all,
> seem to be so hell-bent on customizing *everything* (or at least being able
> to) and all kinds of bells and whistles, that one could think for them, the
> desktop environment should be in the Games category, too, and be designed
> accordingly (that is: using it is a goal in itself). ;)
>
>
>
> --
> Thorsten Wilms
>
> thorwil's design for free software:
> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/
>
> --
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> https://launchpad.net/~unity-**design<https://launchpad.net/%7Eunity-design>
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Re: [Unity-design] Simplifying the interaction of Unity Dash

[balint...@gmail.com]

Very good reasoning. Absolutely agree.

2012/6/17 Connor Carney 

> > Now, I would really like to hear the *reasoning* against having
> > default categories. Why it is preferable to let the burden to the user
> > do all the job for each new applications he/she installs (and all the
> > installed applications that come by default). Sure, it is impossible
> > to find a good categorization that fits everyone. But we can find a
> > reasonable initial one. The current one is good enough for me.
>
>
> Display a flat list of all application launchers, excluding system
> tools and file viewers.  Here's my reasoning:
>
> The default applications list should exclude system tools (because
> they aren't applications from an end-user perspective) and file
> viewers (because they aren't useful when launched directly).  Ubuntu,
> then, comes OOTB with fourteen apps that belong in the launcher --
> aisleriot, calculator, gedit, brasero, empathy[1], firefox,
> gwibber[1], libreoffice, mahjongg, rhythmbox, shotwell, simplescan,
> thunderbird and transmission.
>
> Using the XDG categorization scheme, those applications get divided
> into six categories; some categories have only one application.  The
> small number of items per category significantly diminishes their
> usefulness, and there's no sensible way of consolidating them.
>
> Categories are also much harder to pick out of a list than
> applications.  Applications have recognizable, definitive branding.
> Categories lack such branding: the spinning fox is always firefox,
> while a globe could mean many things besides "Internet".  For
> user-installed applications, the branding is extremely prominent in
> the software center, so we can expect users to recognize it.
>
> The dash can display 24 icons per page at it's smallest.  On a 1080p
> monitor it can display up to 84 items.  That's plenty of room to fit
> the default apps plus several more installed from the software center.
>  As long as a flat list of all applications fits comfortably on the
> screen, a user can pick an application out of the list without needing
> to interact with the computer at all [2].
>
>
>
> [1] The presence of empathy and gwibber on this list is questionable
> since they come with system branding (the "chat" and "broadcast"
> features of the messaging menu) rather than application branding.
>
> [2] Reducing the amount of input is more important than you might
> think.  Every output->input cycle requires an inexperienced user to
> shift his attention from the screen to the mouse and back.  If the
> entire list is already on the screen, choosing one is a simple task.
> If he must point at a category and then choose an application, it
> involves multiple subtasks.
>
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Re: [Unity-design] A better Ubuntu Unity Launcher - Part I (mockup)

[balint...@gmail.com]

I like the folders idea.

2012/7/15 Ryan Gauger 

>  On 07/15/2012 04:04 PM, Brandon Watkins wrote:
>
> I saw this mockup by rylexr  on deviantart
> today, and think it has some nice ideas to improve the unity launcher. It
> looks cleaner and more readable, and the idea of combining multiple apps
> into one launcher looks pretty interesting.
>
>  At the very least I think the vertical line to highlight the currently
> focused application is an excellent and easy to implement idea, as in the
> current unity launcher there is no real indication of the currently focused
> app.
>
>  http://rylexr.deviantart.com/#/d575s1k
>
>
>  VERY nice mockup. It does definitely look cleaner and more readable.
> There actually is an indication of the currently focused app. You will
> notice the currently focused app has a triangle on the right side of it.
> That is the indication. But the vertical line is definitely easier to see
> and differentiate between open apps and the focused app.
>
>
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>


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[Unity-design] Readability, less colour, and more shadows

[balint...@gmail.com]

This whole cameleonic behaviour is not a bad thing, though the current
design went a bit too far with it. The initial purple hue of the dash is
really hard on the eyes for me, and the tinting of the dash really does
reduce readability with certain wallpapers. These two are the most
important ergonomic factors of a desktop environment. What should be
customized in my opinion, is the highlight colour of the operating system
(the colour which is around highlighted buttons, text etc. Currently the
highlight colour is fixed to the ubuntu orange.) . If the dash had no
tinting at all, readability could still be achieved with shadows under text
and icons, or good choice of colours. What do you think?

Thank you for your time Bálint Csonka.
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[Unity-design] Sliding desktop

[balint...@gmail.com]

I have made a really quick mockup about what i think would solve 2 things i
dont like about the current implementation of unity.

   - The blurred dash slows down the overall unity experience. Especially
   on non-intel devices and while runnung dynamically rendered content (video
   or games).
   - The close button is in the corner in place of the ubuntu logo right
   now.

What do you think?

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Re: [Unity-design] Readability, less colour, and more shadows

[balint...@gmail.com]

Two quick mockups:

2012/10/20 Brandon Watkins 

> I agree, sometimes the effect is way to pronounced. I have a few very nice
> wallpapers that I can't use, because it makes unity use some atrocious
> brown color. I wish I could just manually set it to use a blackish color
> all the time (like previous versions of unity did by default), because that
> goes with pretty much anything.
>
> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 4:30 PM, balint...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> This whole cameleonic behaviour is not a bad thing, though the current
>> design went a bit too far with it. The initial purple hue of the dash is
>> really hard on the eyes for me, and the tinting of the dash really does
>> reduce readability with certain wallpapers. These two are the most
>> important ergonomic factors of a desktop environment. What should be
>> customized in my opinion, is the highlight colour of the operating system
>> (the colour which is around highlighted buttons, text etc. Currently the
>> highlight colour is fixed to the ubuntu orange.) . If the dash had no
>> tinting at all, readability could still be achieved with shadows under text
>> and icons, or good choice of colours. What do you think?
>>
>> Thank you for your time Bálint Csonka.
>>
>> --
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>>
>>
>


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