Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop
On 3 November 2014 13:57, Gareth France wrote: > I firmly believe part of the problem with Linux adoption is that we all go > out, buy Windows machines and then wipe them. This sends out the message to > manufacturers that we want Windows on our machines and so the cycle > continues. > > I'm looking to purchase a laptop shortly and would much prefer to buy a > machine with Linux pre-installed but of course choice is limited. I was > wondering what budget machines are available and recommended. Yes I know > Dell will sell me one for a sqillion pounds but I'm looking to spend about > £500. It might take some negotiation, but I know that these guys are capable of it: http://www.wessexcomputers.com/ Ask for Wayne if they are balky, and tell him I sent you. I know they can do it because they are the hardware arm behind this: http://www.simplicitycomputers.co.uk/ ... And those machines are shipped with Mint or Ubuntu GNOME. This is a general offer, by the way. I am, or rather used to be, involved with Simplicity and have worked in Wessex's offices many time. But there is no kickback or anything to me in this deal! -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) • +420 702 829 053 (ČR) -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop
Thanks. I've seen what I'd like but it's in PC world. I really don't think I can make a purchase if it is effectively an endorsement of Windows 8! I'm sure there must be another way. On 04/11/14 15:39, Liam Proven wrote: On 3 November 2014 13:57, Gareth France wrote: I firmly believe part of the problem with Linux adoption is that we all go out, buy Windows machines and then wipe them. This sends out the message to manufacturers that we want Windows on our machines and so the cycle continues. I'm looking to purchase a laptop shortly and would much prefer to buy a machine with Linux pre-installed but of course choice is limited. I was wondering what budget machines are available and recommended. Yes I know Dell will sell me one for a sqillion pounds but I'm looking to spend about £500. It might take some negotiation, but I know that these guys are capable of it: http://www.wessexcomputers.com/ Ask for Wayne if they are balky, and tell him I sent you. I know they can do it because they are the hardware arm behind this: http://www.simplicitycomputers.co.uk/ ... And those machines are shipped with Mint or Ubuntu GNOME. This is a general offer, by the way. I am, or rather used to be, involved with Simplicity and have worked in Wessex's offices many time. But there is no kickback or anything to me in this deal! -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop
On 4 November 2014 16:42, Gareth France wrote: > Thanks. I've seen what I'd like but it's in PC world. I really don't think I > can make a purchase if it is effectively an endorsement of Windows 8! I'm > sure there must be another way. The real reason doesn't get talked about much. It costs money to /not/ preload Windows. Manufacturers get advertising and marketing kickbacks from MICROS~1 for putting Windows on their machines. Also, without Windows, they can't test machines pre-shipping -- they'd have to install it, test, then remove it again, which obviously takes more time, means dedicating a techie to it and therefore costs /more/ than shipping it without. Also, for 30y or so now, Microsoft have had very restrictive licensing agreements. OEM vendors must sign contracts that say they will not ship any other OSes, will not dual-boot, etc. If they won't sign, and won't join the marketing campaigns, then their Windows licenses mysteriously cost significantly more. The system is sick, corrupt and broken, but it made the MS founders very rich. Very rich people can afford good lawyers, and can afford to lobby politicians, so they and their companies don't get prosecuted. So, for instance, this monopoly did come to court. Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson found MS guilty, noting that they lied in court, falsified evidence, that witnesses were shifty and evasive etc. He ordered MS split into apps and OS divisions. MS appealed, the case was sent to a new judge, Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly, who reversed the decision and let them off. Various companies have also sued MS plagiarism *and won*, including Apple (the settlement was spun as a "strategic investment"), Stacker (who moved out of disk compression, which MS stole, and into remote-control, but just as the public/consumer Internet broke), Digital Research/Novell and others. But the damages were too small to even slow a giant such as MS down. -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) • +420 702 829 053 (ČR) -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop
On 04/11/14 15:54, Liam Proven wrote: On 4 November 2014 16:42, Gareth France wrote: Thanks. I've seen what I'd like but it's in PC world. I really don't think I can make a purchase if it is effectively an endorsement of Windows 8! I'm sure there must be another way. The real reason doesn't get talked about much. It costs money to /not/ preload Windows. Liam is right. The only way you can "try" to make a point is either by: 1. Buying a machine from somewhere that sells then sans OS or with Linux. 2. Attempting to get a refund for the "Microsoft Tax"... If you search google you will find cases where suppliers have refunded the license cost - and in doing so it arguably gives you an even better platform for broadcasting about it rather than just quietly buying a PC with Linux or no OS... (Here's my story from July 2009 - and note the comments): http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2009/07/getting-your-microsoft-tax-refunded-1010-for-amazon-uk/ But it doesn't always work... Al -- Libertus Solutions http://www.libertus.co.uk -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop
Now this I like! I shall be attempting to get a refund for windows in the near future I think. On 04/11/14 17:17, Alan Lord (News) wrote: On 04/11/14 15:54, Liam Proven wrote: On 4 November 2014 16:42, Gareth France wrote: Thanks. I've seen what I'd like but it's in PC world. I really don't think I can make a purchase if it is effectively an endorsement of Windows 8! I'm sure there must be another way. The real reason doesn't get talked about much. It costs money to /not/ preload Windows. Liam is right. The only way you can "try" to make a point is either by: 1. Buying a machine from somewhere that sells then sans OS or with Linux. 2. Attempting to get a refund for the "Microsoft Tax"... If you search google you will find cases where suppliers have refunded the license cost - and in doing so it arguably gives you an even better platform for broadcasting about it rather than just quietly buying a PC with Linux or no OS... (Here's my story from July 2009 - and note the comments): http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2009/07/getting-your-microsoft-tax-refunded-1010-for-amazon-uk/ But it doesn't always work... Al -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop
Guys -- Just FYI, like a lot of other people, I bought a Dell with Ubuntu pre-loaded. In my case, it's the Sputnik 3 (XPS 13 9333) 'Enterprise' with HD5000 graphics. It shipped with a Dell-approved build of 12.04, which worked well enough, but had a funky boot process during which it was pretty much impossible to enable LUKS. So I upgraded, and now on 14.04, there are wireless issues which are pretty annoying, which Dell is very quiet about. So, really, unless a vendor is going to commit to Linux, don't fool yourself into thinking that everything will be peachy. I spent quite a lot of my personal money on this laptop, and frankly the support from Dell is non-existent. Ubuntu ran better on my Thinkpad (although the laptop itself wasn't as nice), and on my eeepc 10". Whatever you do, check every component for current kernel support, and hope for no vendor abandonment or driver regressions. I really hate to say it, but I've been looking at Macs again after 10+ years as a Linux on the desktop user. For the money I paid for this Dell, I could have bought the similar Mac. And I bet wireless would work pretty much all the time. I've been thinking about how we ALMOST had a real Linux on the desktop movement. But it's the little details that count, and if Dell and Canonical can't keep a flagship product supported in the mainline release, well, I can't say that I'm optimistic. travis PS -- I know this is a little bit of a hi-jack, but my friend that recently started at Google was offered his choice of environment. On the desktop: Linux or Mac. On the laptop: ChromeOS or Mac. What happened to Gubuntu on the laptops? PPS -- And the funny part? I kind of LIKE Unity. So there. On 04/11/14 17:44, Gareth France wrote: > Now this I like! I shall be attempting to get a refund for windows in > the near future I think. > > On 04/11/14 17:17, Alan Lord (News) wrote: >> On 04/11/14 15:54, Liam Proven wrote: >>> On 4 November 2014 16:42, Gareth France >>> wrote: Thanks. I've seen what I'd like but it's in PC world. I really don't think I can make a purchase if it is effectively an endorsement of Windows 8! I'm sure there must be another way. >>> >>> The real reason doesn't get talked about much. >>> >>> It costs money to /not/ preload Windows. >> >> Liam is right. >> >> The only way you can "try" to make a point is either by: >> >> 1. Buying a machine from somewhere that sells then sans OS or with Linux. >> 2. Attempting to get a refund for the "Microsoft Tax"... >> >> If you search google you will find cases where suppliers have refunded >> the license cost - and in doing so it arguably gives you an even better >> platform for broadcasting about it rather than just quietly buying a PC >> with Linux or no OS... >> >> (Here's my story from July 2009 - and note the comments): >> >> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2009/07/getting-your-microsoft-tax-refunded-1010-for-amazon-uk/ >> >> >> >> But it doesn't always work... >> >> Al >> >> > -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop
I understand exactly what you mean and to be honest even if I got a Ubuntu preinstall on a machine I would most likely swap hard drives and use this install I'm using now or wipe and reinstall to my standard. I'm not expecting to find some sort of Linux holy grail out there I just resent the idea that some statistician somewhere has me marked down as a willing Windows user. On 04/11/14 17:55, TT Mooney wrote: Guys -- Just FYI, like a lot of other people, I bought a Dell with Ubuntu pre-loaded. In my case, it's the Sputnik 3 (XPS 13 9333) 'Enterprise' with HD5000 graphics. It shipped with a Dell-approved build of 12.04, which worked well enough, but had a funky boot process during which it was pretty much impossible to enable LUKS. So I upgraded, and now on 14.04, there are wireless issues which are pretty annoying, which Dell is very quiet about. So, really, unless a vendor is going to commit to Linux, don't fool yourself into thinking that everything will be peachy. I spent quite a lot of my personal money on this laptop, and frankly the support from Dell is non-existent. Ubuntu ran better on my Thinkpad (although the laptop itself wasn't as nice), and on my eeepc 10". Whatever you do, check every component for current kernel support, and hope for no vendor abandonment or driver regressions. I really hate to say it, but I've been looking at Macs again after 10+ years as a Linux on the desktop user. For the money I paid for this Dell, I could have bought the similar Mac. And I bet wireless would work pretty much all the time. I've been thinking about how we ALMOST had a real Linux on the desktop movement. But it's the little details that count, and if Dell and Canonical can't keep a flagship product supported in the mainline release, well, I can't say that I'm optimistic. travis PS -- I know this is a little bit of a hi-jack, but my friend that recently started at Google was offered his choice of environment. On the desktop: Linux or Mac. On the laptop: ChromeOS or Mac. What happened to Gubuntu on the laptops? PPS -- And the funny part? I kind of LIKE Unity. So there. On 04/11/14 17:44, Gareth France wrote: Now this I like! I shall be attempting to get a refund for windows in the near future I think. On 04/11/14 17:17, Alan Lord (News) wrote: On 04/11/14 15:54, Liam Proven wrote: On 4 November 2014 16:42, Gareth France wrote: Thanks. I've seen what I'd like but it's in PC world. I really don't think I can make a purchase if it is effectively an endorsement of Windows 8! I'm sure there must be another way. The real reason doesn't get talked about much. It costs money to /not/ preload Windows. Liam is right. The only way you can "try" to make a point is either by: 1. Buying a machine from somewhere that sells then sans OS or with Linux. 2. Attempting to get a refund for the "Microsoft Tax"... If you search google you will find cases where suppliers have refunded the license cost - and in doing so it arguably gives you an even better platform for broadcasting about it rather than just quietly buying a PC with Linux or no OS... (Here's my story from July 2009 - and note the comments): http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2009/07/getting-your-microsoft-tax-refunded-1010-for-amazon-uk/ But it doesn't always work... Al -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] Laptop Linux
The High Court in Italy ruled in favour of a customer that asked for a rebate for an unwanted preloaded operating system. I hope the EU roll out this procedure across all 27 member countries. I thought that Trisquel was preloaded on a linux laptop? Try trisquel-us...@listas.trisquel.info or fsf.com. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
