[ubuntu-uk] Unity is not working.

[Kris Douglas]

Hello,

Linux Mint is higher in the rankings than Ubuntu.
I have just come off the phone with a customer, we write web
applications and we prefer they use Google Chrome because we're
planning to write a plugin and all sorts, but that is irrelevant.

This customer called in, asked if he could install chrome on his new
Ubuntu desktop. I thought, "Great, another Ubuntu user in the world".
I got him to open Firefox and download TeamViewer (we have a premium
license) so I could show him how to install Chrome. We went through
the stages, got it installed and working, but then, he asked where to
open TeamViewer. He said "It's not on the desktop icons down the left"
and I directed him to open the applications menu "What applications
menu?".

This person is not stupid, however he did not know where the unity
menu (or whatever it's called) was located. We spent around 15 minutes
trying to get to the stage where he could open TeamViewer. It ended up
me asking to type "Ctrl+Alt+T" to which he replied "Oh a terminal,
ok".

We had TeamViewer running in seconds.

Now what is the problem with this? A user that doesn't know how to
open the applications menu must raise alarm bells somewhere. He has
has this machine for 6 weeks thinking it only had the icons down the
left installed on it. (i.e the Unity Dock). Now someone could say to
me "why didn't he read the manual?" The answer to that question is
"Why should he need to?". Not even my Nan when she got her new Windows
7 laptop (after previously never using windows 7) read a manual, or
needed to.

Why is it that Unity requires the user to be an expert. A picture of
the ubuntu logo means a lot to us, but to someone who goes and buys a
cheap computer it means jack all. They wouldn't think to click there
there is no hit that explains it's existence.

So the question, I ask, is why is Linux Mint higher in the rankings
than Ubuntu. The answer is simple, no joe average can use Ubuntu with
ease now! You login to mint, you have a menu that says, believe it or
not, "MENU" and when you click it, again, believe it or not, it shows
you the program categories you can choose from (e.g "Oh, I want the
Internet, oh look Firefox, I know what that is."). It makes sense to
the user, it is what they are used to and it is a very friendly and
comfortable environment.

The electrician I work with on this software has been telling me for
two years now, meaning NO offence to anyone at all, but "The user is
stupid". I know this is not the most tactful way to put it, but after
hearing this for two years I know what he means. Basically the
principle is, the programmer is able to use the software, because he
made it, he is an expert. If you give that to a user, who has no idea,
he will have no idea how to use it. I am now writing software that
explains itself, that has buttons that are obvious to the user, and it
works. The number of phone calls we get are severely reduced, and the
customer satisfaction is up massively. Us geeks who are writing this
software have no idea how users think most of the time, this is
because we are in theory "more intelligent" which is not necessarily
true, but when it comes to the software we are, we understand the
terminology.

I could talk about this for hours, and I am going to write a blog post
about it, people will have a go at me because I'm bashing the "perfect
distribution". But seriously, think about what I have said, and test
it on people, and then tell me I am wrong. Turn of the "I am a geek I
know everything about Ubuntu" for a minute, and imagine you had no
idea what ubuntu was or how unity worked. You wouldn't have the
foggiest idea.

I would appreciate feedback, positive or negative on this. I don't
want another "Unity is better because it's better" or "gnome2 should
be brought back because it's what I like". That's not how it works.

Unity is honestly broken, someone must understand this, I will happily
speak to people in person or on email in more detail about this. I am
willing to help, but you have to understand first that Unity is not
quite there yet first.


-- 
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 www.krisd.eu

-- 
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[ubuntu-uk] Alt - tab misbehaving

[javadayaz]

Recently ive found my system is crashing or unresponsive when i press Alt
tab to switch between programs..?

Has anyone else seen this?

-- 

Regards

Javad
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity is not working.

[James Morrissey]

Without stating any preferences on a thread which is likely to bring
forth opinions: As i understand it, the current Unity Interface is (at
least in part) the result of the sort of testing you are describing:

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/02/mark-shuttleworth-explains-dodge-ditch-decision-in-precise/

https://lists.launchpad.net/unity-design/msg07682.html

j

On 22 February 2012 13:43, Kris Douglas  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Linux Mint is higher in the rankings than Ubuntu.
> I have just come off the phone with a customer, we write web
> applications and we prefer they use Google Chrome because we're
> planning to write a plugin and all sorts, but that is irrelevant.
>
> This customer called in, asked if he could install chrome on his new
> Ubuntu desktop. I thought, "Great, another Ubuntu user in the world".
> I got him to open Firefox and download TeamViewer (we have a premium
> license) so I could show him how to install Chrome. We went through
> the stages, got it installed and working, but then, he asked where to
> open TeamViewer. He said "It's not on the desktop icons down the left"
> and I directed him to open the applications menu "What applications
> menu?".
>
> This person is not stupid, however he did not know where the unity
> menu (or whatever it's called) was located. We spent around 15 minutes
> trying to get to the stage where he could open TeamViewer. It ended up
> me asking to type "Ctrl+Alt+T" to which he replied "Oh a terminal,
> ok".
>
> We had TeamViewer running in seconds.
>
> Now what is the problem with this? A user that doesn't know how to
> open the applications menu must raise alarm bells somewhere. He has
> has this machine for 6 weeks thinking it only had the icons down the
> left installed on it. (i.e the Unity Dock). Now someone could say to
> me "why didn't he read the manual?" The answer to that question is
> "Why should he need to?". Not even my Nan when she got her new Windows
> 7 laptop (after previously never using windows 7) read a manual, or
> needed to.
>
> Why is it that Unity requires the user to be an expert. A picture of
> the ubuntu logo means a lot to us, but to someone who goes and buys a
> cheap computer it means jack all. They wouldn't think to click there
> there is no hit that explains it's existence.
>
> So the question, I ask, is why is Linux Mint higher in the rankings
> than Ubuntu. The answer is simple, no joe average can use Ubuntu with
> ease now! You login to mint, you have a menu that says, believe it or
> not, "MENU" and when you click it, again, believe it or not, it shows
> you the program categories you can choose from (e.g "Oh, I want the
> Internet, oh look Firefox, I know what that is."). It makes sense to
> the user, it is what they are used to and it is a very friendly and
> comfortable environment.
>
> The electrician I work with on this software has been telling me for
> two years now, meaning NO offence to anyone at all, but "The user is
> stupid". I know this is not the most tactful way to put it, but after
> hearing this for two years I know what he means. Basically the
> principle is, the programmer is able to use the software, because he
> made it, he is an expert. If you give that to a user, who has no idea,
> he will have no idea how to use it. I am now writing software that
> explains itself, that has buttons that are obvious to the user, and it
> works. The number of phone calls we get are severely reduced, and the
> customer satisfaction is up massively. Us geeks who are writing this
> software have no idea how users think most of the time, this is
> because we are in theory "more intelligent" which is not necessarily
> true, but when it comes to the software we are, we understand the
> terminology.
>
> I could talk about this for hours, and I am going to write a blog post
> about it, people will have a go at me because I'm bashing the "perfect
> distribution". But seriously, think about what I have said, and test
> it on people, and then tell me I am wrong. Turn of the "I am a geek I
> know everything about Ubuntu" for a minute, and imagine you had no
> idea what ubuntu was or how unity worked. You wouldn't have the
> foggiest idea.
>
> I would appreciate feedback, positive or negative on this. I don't
> want another "Unity is better because it's better" or "gnome2 should
> be brought back because it's what I like". That's not how it works.
>
> Unity is honestly broken, someone must understand this, I will happily
> speak to people in person or on email in more detail about this. I am
> willing to help, but you have to understand first that Unity is not
> quite there yet first.
>
>
> --
> Regards, Kris Douglas.
>  www.krisd.eu
>
> --
> ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

-- 
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity is not working.

[James Morrissey]

Also: 
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/02/stats-show-ubuntu-not-losing-ground-to-linux-mint/

On 22 February 2012 13:49, James Morrissey  wrote:
> Without stating any preferences on a thread which is likely to bring
> forth opinions: As i understand it, the current Unity Interface is (at
> least in part) the result of the sort of testing you are describing:
>
> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/02/mark-shuttleworth-explains-dodge-ditch-decision-in-precise/
>
> https://lists.launchpad.net/unity-design/msg07682.html
>
> j
>
> On 22 February 2012 13:43, Kris Douglas  wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Linux Mint is higher in the rankings than Ubuntu.
>> I have just come off the phone with a customer, we write web
>> applications and we prefer they use Google Chrome because we're
>> planning to write a plugin and all sorts, but that is irrelevant.
>>
>> This customer called in, asked if he could install chrome on his new
>> Ubuntu desktop. I thought, "Great, another Ubuntu user in the world".
>> I got him to open Firefox and download TeamViewer (we have a premium
>> license) so I could show him how to install Chrome. We went through
>> the stages, got it installed and working, but then, he asked where to
>> open TeamViewer. He said "It's not on the desktop icons down the left"
>> and I directed him to open the applications menu "What applications
>> menu?".
>>
>> This person is not stupid, however he did not know where the unity
>> menu (or whatever it's called) was located. We spent around 15 minutes
>> trying to get to the stage where he could open TeamViewer. It ended up
>> me asking to type "Ctrl+Alt+T" to which he replied "Oh a terminal,
>> ok".
>>
>> We had TeamViewer running in seconds.
>>
>> Now what is the problem with this? A user that doesn't know how to
>> open the applications menu must raise alarm bells somewhere. He has
>> has this machine for 6 weeks thinking it only had the icons down the
>> left installed on it. (i.e the Unity Dock). Now someone could say to
>> me "why didn't he read the manual?" The answer to that question is
>> "Why should he need to?". Not even my Nan when she got her new Windows
>> 7 laptop (after previously never using windows 7) read a manual, or
>> needed to.
>>
>> Why is it that Unity requires the user to be an expert. A picture of
>> the ubuntu logo means a lot to us, but to someone who goes and buys a
>> cheap computer it means jack all. They wouldn't think to click there
>> there is no hit that explains it's existence.
>>
>> So the question, I ask, is why is Linux Mint higher in the rankings
>> than Ubuntu. The answer is simple, no joe average can use Ubuntu with
>> ease now! You login to mint, you have a menu that says, believe it or
>> not, "MENU" and when you click it, again, believe it or not, it shows
>> you the program categories you can choose from (e.g "Oh, I want the
>> Internet, oh look Firefox, I know what that is."). It makes sense to
>> the user, it is what they are used to and it is a very friendly and
>> comfortable environment.
>>
>> The electrician I work with on this software has been telling me for
>> two years now, meaning NO offence to anyone at all, but "The user is
>> stupid". I know this is not the most tactful way to put it, but after
>> hearing this for two years I know what he means. Basically the
>> principle is, the programmer is able to use the software, because he
>> made it, he is an expert. If you give that to a user, who has no idea,
>> he will have no idea how to use it. I am now writing software that
>> explains itself, that has buttons that are obvious to the user, and it
>> works. The number of phone calls we get are severely reduced, and the
>> customer satisfaction is up massively. Us geeks who are writing this
>> software have no idea how users think most of the time, this is
>> because we are in theory "more intelligent" which is not necessarily
>> true, but when it comes to the software we are, we understand the
>> terminology.
>>
>> I could talk about this for hours, and I am going to write a blog post
>> about it, people will have a go at me because I'm bashing the "perfect
>> distribution". But seriously, think about what I have said, and test
>> it on people, and then tell me I am wrong. Turn of the "I am a geek I
>> know everything about Ubuntu" for a minute, and imagine you had no
>> idea what ubuntu was or how unity worked. You wouldn't have the
>> foggiest idea.
>>
>> I would appreciate feedback, positive or negative on this. I don't
>> want another "Unity is better because it's better" or "gnome2 should
>> be brought back because it's what I like". That's not how it works.
>>
>> Unity is honestly broken, someone must understand this, I will happily
>> speak to people in person or on email in more detail about this. I am
>> willing to help, but you have to understand first that Unity is not
>> quite there yet first.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Regards, Kris Douglas.
>>  www.krisd.eu
>>
>> --
>> ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
>> https://lists.ubu

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity is not working.

[Kris Douglas]

On 22 February 2012 13:49, James Morrissey  wrote:
> Without stating any preferences on a thread which is likely to bring
> forth opinions: As i understand it, the current Unity Interface is (at
> least in part) the result of the sort of testing you are describing:
>
> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/02/mark-shuttleworth-explains-dodge-ditch-decision-in-precise/
>
> https://lists.launchpad.net/unity-design/msg07682.html
>
> j

Hello James,

That is entirely related to the fact the bar dodged windows, and yes I
believe that is to be discontinued. However, that is not the problem
to be honest, the the "iconfication" and hiding of menus and
maximising each window... etc etc.

-- 
Regards, Kris Douglas.
 www.krisd.eu

-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity is not working.

[Simon Greenwood]

I can understand where you're coming from and yes, the visual metaphor does
struggle a bit beyond the default applications on the dash but the thinking
presumably was that there is a start button from which, as with Gnome (and
Windows) all other installed software is installed. I understand and like
Unity as I've come from OS X, which is where the visual toolbar plus other
applications has come from, and remember that it wasn't until Leopard that
there was an Applications icon on the Dock by default. I think this should
be an option, and there should be a way of making it - that clicking on a
dash icon gives a list of available applications in the Gnome 2 way, but
that it should a use choice.

s/

-- 
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"more of a stain than a globule"
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity is not working.

[Kris Douglas]

On 22 February 2012 13:55, James Morrissey  wrote:
> Also: 
> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/02/stats-show-ubuntu-not-losing-ground-to-linux-mint/
>

I have to be honest I am tentative to take the posts on OMG Ubuntu as
fact, I am not saying they are lying but sometimes they lack certain
intricate details that would otherwise be included in online
journalism.

I actually really like OMG as a place to go, but I know a lot(5-10) of
people are hearing about Linux Mint more than ubuntu nowadays.

-- 
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 www.krisd.eu

-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity is not working.

[James Morrissey]

On 22 February 2012 13:56, Kris Douglas  wrote:

>> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/02/mark-shuttleworth-explains-dodge-ditch-decision-in-precise/
>>
>> https://lists.launchpad.net/unity-design/msg07682.html
>>
>> j

> That is entirely related to the fact the bar dodged windows, and yes I
> believe that is to be discontinued. However, that is not the problem
> to be honest, the the "iconfication" and hiding of menus and
> maximising each window... etc etc.

Yes, in this instance. My assumption is that a variety of the features
you are describing are tested in a similar manner. I suppose i should
have placed your comment in here:

"But seriously, think about what I have said, and test
it on people, and then tell me I am wrong."

j

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity is not working.

[James Morrissey]

> I have to be honest I am tentative to take the posts on OMG Ubuntu as
> fact, I am not saying they are lying but sometimes they lack certain
> intricate details that would otherwise be included in online
> journalism.
>
> I actually really like OMG as a place to go, but I know a lot(5-10) of
> people are hearing about Linux Mint more than ubuntu nowadays.

Both fair enough points. I guess its simply worth noting that
statements about Mint's popularity over Ubuntu are, themselves, likely
the result of simple analyses of a process which is hard to
determine/observe.

j

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity is not working.

[Dave Morley]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 22/02/12 13:56, Kris Douglas wrote:
> On 22 February 2012 13:49, James Morrissey
>  wrote:
>> Without stating any preferences on a thread which is likely to
>> bring forth opinions: As i understand it, the current Unity
>> Interface is (at least in part) the result of the sort of testing
>> you are describing:
>> 
>> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/02/mark-shuttleworth-explains-dodge-ditch-decision-in-precise/
>>
>>
>> 
https://lists.launchpad.net/unity-design/msg07682.html
>> 
>> j
> 
> Hello James,
> 
> That is entirely related to the fact the bar dodged windows, and
> yes I believe that is to be discontinued. However, that is not the
> problem to be honest, the the "iconfication" and hiding of menus
> and maximising each window... etc etc.
> 
Kris

I'm confused could you not say click on the big ubuntu logo, in the
search field type in the name of the application you are after?

Also now in 12.04 if an application is installed via Software-center
and it has a valid .desktop file it is automatically added to the
launcher bar which it wasn't before so then you get to manually remove
any you don't want.

- -- 
You make it, I'll break it!

I love my job :)
http://www.ubuntu.com
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity is not working.

[Kris Douglas]

On 22 February 2012 14:03, James Morrissey  wrote:
>> I have to be honest I am tentative to take the posts on OMG Ubuntu as
>> fact, I am not saying they are lying but sometimes they lack certain
>> intricate details that would otherwise be included in online
>> journalism.
>>
>> I actually really like OMG as a place to go, but I know a lot(5-10) of
>> people are hearing about Linux Mint more than ubuntu nowadays.
>
> Both fair enough points. I guess its simply worth noting that
> statements about Mint's popularity over Ubuntu are, themselves, likely
> the result of simple analyses of a process which is hard to
> determine/observe.

I absolutely agree, I understand it's hardly fair to base this
entirely on DistroWatch, it is based on the feedback I have received
from my customers, (quite a few), my colleagues and most effectively
family and friends.



-- 
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 www.krisd.eu

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity is not working.

[Kris Douglas]

On 22 February 2012 14:06, Dave Morley  wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 22/02/12 13:56, Kris Douglas wrote:
>> On 22 February 2012 13:49, James Morrissey
>>  wrote:
>>> Without stating any preferences on a thread which is likely to
>>> bring forth opinions: As i understand it, the current Unity
>>> Interface is (at least in part) the result of the sort of testing
>>> you are describing:
>>>
>>> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/02/mark-shuttleworth-explains-dodge-ditch-decision-in-precise/
>>>
>>>
>>>
> https://lists.launchpad.net/unity-design/msg07682.html
>>>
>>> j
>>
>> Hello James,
>>
>> That is entirely related to the fact the bar dodged windows, and
>> yes I believe that is to be discontinued. However, that is not the
>> problem to be honest, the the "iconfication" and hiding of menus
>> and maximising each window... etc etc.
>>
> Kris
>
> I'm confused could you not say click on the big ubuntu logo, in the
> search field type in the name of the application you are after?
>
> Also now in 12.04 if an application is installed via Software-center
> and it has a valid .desktop file it is automatically added to the
> launcher bar which it wasn't before so then you get to manually remove
> any you don't want.

I said those exact words, he didn't know the logo, and didn't
understand why he couldn't just look through a list.

It took me about 15-20mins to get him to the stage where he understood
the unity launcher box. He thought it was a free trial which only came
with the icons on the left and intended to buy windows to replace it.



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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity is not working.

[Alan Bell]

On 22/02/12 13:43, Kris Douglas wrote:

Unity is honestly broken, someone must understand this, I will happily
speak to people in person or on email in more detail about this.


code talks. Fix it the way you want it and submit a merge request.

Alan.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity is not working.

[Kris Douglas]

On 22 February 2012 14:11, Alan Bell  wrote:
> On 22/02/12 13:43, Kris Douglas wrote:
>>
>> Unity is honestly broken, someone must understand this, I will happily
>> speak to people in person or on email in more detail about this.
>
>
> code talks. Fix it the way you want it and submit a merge request.
>
> Alan.

I am primarily a windows/ web developer (sadly). However I am not
going to say I don't have the time or anything like that. I will
happily attempt a mockup.



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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity is not working.

[Avi Greenbury]

Kris Douglas  wrote:
> Linux Mint is higher in the rankings than Ubuntu.

Yes. And Scotland is subsidising the UK.

> He has has this machine for 6 weeks thinking it only had the icons
> down the left installed on it. (i.e the Unity Dock). Now someone
> could say to me "why didn't he read the manual?" The answer to that
> question is "Why should he need to?". Not even my Nan when she got
> her new Windows 7 laptop (after previously never using windows 7)
> read a manual, or needed to.

No, because Windows 7 isn't mechanically different in that respect from
Windows 95 or any of the intervening versions. Want apps? Click the
bottom-left corner. If she's ever used Windows before she can use
Solitaire on Windows 7.

> Why is it that Unity requires the user to be an expert. 

It doesn't. It requires the user to know how to use the computer, which
is basically what everything else does. In fact, all you've pointed
out so far is that the guy didn't know where the button for the search
thingy is because it's not explicity labelled 'click here to search for
something'. What else required expert knowledge? 

I'm a bit bemused at the thought of somebody wanting to run more
applications and not then going on to try to work out how to do it
either by asking or trying.

> A picture of the ubuntu logo means a lot to us, but to someone who
> goes and buys a cheap computer it means jack all. They wouldn't think
> to click there there is no hit that explains it's existence.

It's roughly the same as the Windows 7 one. It's the logo of the OS in a
circle.

> So the question, I ask, is why is Linux Mint higher in the rankings
> than Ubuntu.

Because of how those rankings work. I'm sure I could concoct a ranking
where Suse's winning if you like.

> The answer is simple, no joe average can use Ubuntu with ease now!
> You login to mint, you have a menu that says, believe it or not,
> "MENU" and when you click it, again, believe it or not, it shows you
> the program categories you can choose from (e.g "Oh, I want the
> Internet, oh look Firefox, I know what that is."). It makes sense to
> the user, it is what they are used to and it is a very friendly and
> comfortable environment.

That's lovely and all, but all it takes to get to that sort of
proficiency on Unity is to say 'click the button in the top left to
get a search box'. I know several 'joe average's using Unity happily.

> I could talk about this for hours, and I am going to write a blog post
> about it, people will have a go at me because I'm bashing the "perfect
> distribution". But seriously, think about what I have said, and test
> it on people, and then tell me I am wrong.

You're not wrong, but there's a very good argument to the effect that
the vast majority of users are *not* new to whatever they're using, and
thus it makes sense to pander more to the older ones. That way, rather
than having lots of newbie-friendly stuff that gets in the way you
simply have a very easy-to-use but not very intuitive system.

This is, historically, the difference between Windows and *nix and is
why everything takes an incredibly long time to *do* in Windows but a
relatively long time to *learn* in *nix.

This is also one of the major criticisms of Ubuntu before Unity came
along - that it tries to be easy to use and instead gets in the way.

> Unity is honestly broken, someone must understand this, I will happily
> speak to people in person or on email in more detail about this. I am
> willing to help, but you have to understand first that Unity is not
> quite there yet first.

File bugs. Maybe accept that it's not *broken* but simply not what you
want, and instead make use of one of the other myriad options? Lots of
people are quite happy with it, why break it for them in order to fix
it for you?

I don't think anybody feels that Unity is finished or perfect (is
software ever finished?) but I think it's going quite far to say it's
fundamentally broken. It's pretty reasonable to say that at least many
of the designers are mad.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity is not working.

[Dino T.]

He didnt know the logo but a simple "click the top left icon then type the
name of the program" couldn't have been said? I got my dad at 68 years old
to do that easily over the phone.


*Dino Tassigiannis BA (Hons)*



On 22 February 2012 14:11, Alan Bell  wrote:

> On 22/02/12 13:43, Kris Douglas wrote:
>
>> Unity is honestly broken, someone must understand this, I will happily
>> speak to people in person or on email in more detail about this.
>>
>
> code talks. Fix it the way you want it and submit a merge request.
>
> Alan.
>
> --
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> look at http://libertus.co.uk
>
>
>
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity is not working.

[Barry Drake]

On 22/02/12 13:56, Kris Douglas wrote:
That is entirely related to the fact the bar dodged windows, and yes I 
believe that is to be discontinued. However, that is not the problem 
to be honest, the the "iconfication" and hiding of menus and 
maximising each window... etc etc. 


There's a neat configuration gui called MyUnity that is designed to let 
you customise this among other things.  I like the 'dodging' idea.  My 
daughter hates it.  It's easy to have it both ways!


Regards,Barry.

-- Barry Drake is a member of the the Ubuntu Advertising team. 
http://ubuntuadverts.org/


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity is not working.

[Kris Douglas]

On 22 February 2012 14:17, Avi Greenbury  wrote:
> Kris Douglas  wrote:
>> Linux Mint is higher in the rankings than Ubuntu.
>
> Yes. And Scotland is subsidising the UK.
>
>> He has has this machine for 6 weeks thinking it only had the icons
>> down the left installed on it. (i.e the Unity Dock). Now someone
>> could say to me "why didn't he read the manual?" The answer to that
>> question is "Why should he need to?". Not even my Nan when she got
>> her new Windows 7 laptop (after previously never using windows 7)
>> read a manual, or needed to.
>
> No, because Windows 7 isn't mechanically different in that respect from
> Windows 95 or any of the intervening versions. Want apps? Click the
> bottom-left corner. If she's ever used Windows before she can use
> Solitaire on Windows 7.
>
>> Why is it that Unity requires the user to be an expert.
>
> It doesn't. It requires the user to know how to use the computer, which
> is basically what everything else does. In fact, all you've pointed
> out so far is that the guy didn't know where the button for the search
> thingy is because it's not explicity labelled 'click here to search for
> something'. What else required expert knowledge?
>
> I'm a bit bemused at the thought of somebody wanting to run more
> applications and not then going on to try to work out how to do it
> either by asking or trying.
>
>> A picture of the ubuntu logo means a lot to us, but to someone who
>> goes and buys a cheap computer it means jack all. They wouldn't think
>> to click there there is no hit that explains it's existence.
>
> It's roughly the same as the Windows 7 one. It's the logo of the OS in a
> circle.
>
>> So the question, I ask, is why is Linux Mint higher in the rankings
>> than Ubuntu.
>
> Because of how those rankings work. I'm sure I could concoct a ranking
> where Suse's winning if you like.
>
>> The answer is simple, no joe average can use Ubuntu with ease now!
>> You login to mint, you have a menu that says, believe it or not,
>> "MENU" and when you click it, again, believe it or not, it shows you
>> the program categories you can choose from (e.g "Oh, I want the
>> Internet, oh look Firefox, I know what that is."). It makes sense to
>> the user, it is what they are used to and it is a very friendly and
>> comfortable environment.
>
> That's lovely and all, but all it takes to get to that sort of
> proficiency on Unity is to say 'click the button in the top left to
> get a search box'. I know several 'joe average's using Unity happily.
>
>> I could talk about this for hours, and I am going to write a blog post
>> about it, people will have a go at me because I'm bashing the "perfect
>> distribution". But seriously, think about what I have said, and test
>> it on people, and then tell me I am wrong.
>
> You're not wrong, but there's a very good argument to the effect that
> the vast majority of users are *not* new to whatever they're using, and
> thus it makes sense to pander more to the older ones. That way, rather
> than having lots of newbie-friendly stuff that gets in the way you
> simply have a very easy-to-use but not very intuitive system.
>
> This is, historically, the difference between Windows and *nix and is
> why everything takes an incredibly long time to *do* in Windows but a
> relatively long time to *learn* in *nix.
>
> This is also one of the major criticisms of Ubuntu before Unity came
> along - that it tries to be easy to use and instead gets in the way.
>
>> Unity is honestly broken, someone must understand this, I will happily
>> speak to people in person or on email in more detail about this. I am
>> willing to help, but you have to understand first that Unity is not
>> quite there yet first.
>
> File bugs. Maybe accept that it's not *broken* but simply not what you
> want, and instead make use of one of the other myriad options? Lots of
> people are quite happy with it, why break it for them in order to fix
> it for you?
>
> I don't think anybody feels that Unity is finished or perfect (is
> software ever finished?) but I think it's going quite far to say it's
> fundamentally broken. It's pretty reasonable to say that at least many
> of the designers are mad.

Thanks for your post Avi,

I do admit broken is a very opinionated way to explain this topic. I
have also already said above that the stats are certainly a moot point
and referring to them entirely is not necessarily the best idea.

The user of this system could be categorised as lazy, like my
colleague the electrician, who "can't be bothered with it"


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 www.krisd.eu

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity is not working.

[Kris Douglas]

On 22 February 2012 14:27, Kris Douglas  wrote:
> On 22 February 2012 14:17, Avi Greenbury  wrote:
>> Kris Douglas  wrote:
>>> Linux Mint is higher in the rankings than Ubuntu.
>>
>> Yes. And Scotland is subsidising the UK.
>>
>>> He has has this machine for 6 weeks thinking it only had the icons
>>> down the left installed on it. (i.e the Unity Dock). Now someone
>>> could say to me "why didn't he read the manual?" The answer to that
>>> question is "Why should he need to?". Not even my Nan when she got
>>> her new Windows 7 laptop (after previously never using windows 7)
>>> read a manual, or needed to.
>>
>> No, because Windows 7 isn't mechanically different in that respect from
>> Windows 95 or any of the intervening versions. Want apps? Click the
>> bottom-left corner. If she's ever used Windows before she can use
>> Solitaire on Windows 7.
>>
>>> Why is it that Unity requires the user to be an expert.
>>
>> It doesn't. It requires the user to know how to use the computer, which
>> is basically what everything else does. In fact, all you've pointed
>> out so far is that the guy didn't know where the button for the search
>> thingy is because it's not explicity labelled 'click here to search for
>> something'. What else required expert knowledge?
>>
>> I'm a bit bemused at the thought of somebody wanting to run more
>> applications and not then going on to try to work out how to do it
>> either by asking or trying.
>>
>>> A picture of the ubuntu logo means a lot to us, but to someone who
>>> goes and buys a cheap computer it means jack all. They wouldn't think
>>> to click there there is no hit that explains it's existence.
>>
>> It's roughly the same as the Windows 7 one. It's the logo of the OS in a
>> circle.
>>
>>> So the question, I ask, is why is Linux Mint higher in the rankings
>>> than Ubuntu.
>>
>> Because of how those rankings work. I'm sure I could concoct a ranking
>> where Suse's winning if you like.
>>
>>> The answer is simple, no joe average can use Ubuntu with ease now!
>>> You login to mint, you have a menu that says, believe it or not,
>>> "MENU" and when you click it, again, believe it or not, it shows you
>>> the program categories you can choose from (e.g "Oh, I want the
>>> Internet, oh look Firefox, I know what that is."). It makes sense to
>>> the user, it is what they are used to and it is a very friendly and
>>> comfortable environment.
>>
>> That's lovely and all, but all it takes to get to that sort of
>> proficiency on Unity is to say 'click the button in the top left to
>> get a search box'. I know several 'joe average's using Unity happily.
>>
>>> I could talk about this for hours, and I am going to write a blog post
>>> about it, people will have a go at me because I'm bashing the "perfect
>>> distribution". But seriously, think about what I have said, and test
>>> it on people, and then tell me I am wrong.
>>
>> You're not wrong, but there's a very good argument to the effect that
>> the vast majority of users are *not* new to whatever they're using, and
>> thus it makes sense to pander more to the older ones. That way, rather
>> than having lots of newbie-friendly stuff that gets in the way you
>> simply have a very easy-to-use but not very intuitive system.
>>
>> This is, historically, the difference between Windows and *nix and is
>> why everything takes an incredibly long time to *do* in Windows but a
>> relatively long time to *learn* in *nix.
>>
>> This is also one of the major criticisms of Ubuntu before Unity came
>> along - that it tries to be easy to use and instead gets in the way.
>>
>>> Unity is honestly broken, someone must understand this, I will happily
>>> speak to people in person or on email in more detail about this. I am
>>> willing to help, but you have to understand first that Unity is not
>>> quite there yet first.
>>
>> File bugs. Maybe accept that it's not *broken* but simply not what you
>> want, and instead make use of one of the other myriad options? Lots of
>> people are quite happy with it, why break it for them in order to fix
>> it for you?
>>
>> I don't think anybody feels that Unity is finished or perfect (is
>> software ever finished?) but I think it's going quite far to say it's
>> fundamentally broken. It's pretty reasonable to say that at least many
>> of the designers are mad.
>
> Thanks for your post Avi,
>
> I do admit broken is a very opinionated way to explain this topic. I
> have also already said above that the stats are certainly a moot point
> and referring to them entirely is not necessarily the best idea.
>
> The user of this system could be categorised as lazy, like my
> colleague the electrician, who "can't be bothered with it"

Sorry, Gmail misfired.

... However the system could once for the first time the user uses the
system lay an overlay over the top explaining how to use the menus,
etc.

The part in your post about the history of *nix and windows is quite
an interesting theory, I like that.

-- 
Regards, Kris D

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity is not working.

[Kris Douglas]

On 22 February 2012 14:18, Dino T.  wrote:
> He didnt know the logo but a simple "click the top left icon then type the
> name of the program" couldn't have been said? I got my dad at 68 years old
> to do that easily over the phone.
>

Hello,

If you weren't there and you were trying to explain that it's not as
easy as it sounds. I said "click the ubuntu logo on the top of the
left hand side of the screen" He returned to me "it just flashes a
box".

He was double clicking, so I asked him to single click and the box
popped up, no problem. He was presented with a lot of icons and things
for different parts of Unity, he didn't understand the concept of
searching for the program he was after so I had to explain that, and
explain that he couldn't open a list, which was his main goal.

-- 
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 www.krisd.eu

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity is not working.

[Andy Braben]

>
> The user of this system could be categorised as lazy, like my
> colleague the electrician, who "can't be bothered with it"
>
>
> It doesn't matter what operating system is being used, if a person is
being "lazy" and "can't be bothered with it" they won't be bothered by it
and won't install an application or setup a printer because it is beyond
them, or so they think.

If however they are full of enthusiasm and keen to learn, they will succeed
in installing some software, finding it, and running it.

-- 
Regards,
Andy
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Alt - tab misbehaving

[Steve Flynn]

On 22 February 2012 13:46, javadayaz  wrote:
> Recently ive found my system is crashing or unresponsive when i press Alt
> tab to switch between programs..?
>
> Has anyone else seen this?

Nope - not for a couple of years. Traced that one back to some flaky
ram. Recently though, all is ok using Unity 3d

-- 
Steve

When one person suffers from a delusion it is insanity. When many
people suffer from a delusion it is called religion.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Alt - tab misbehaving

[J Fernyhough]

On 22 February 2012 13:46, javadayaz  wrote:
> Recently ive found my system is crashing or unresponsive when i press Alt
> tab to switch between programs..?
>
> Has anyone else seen this?
>

I've seen something similar(?) previously with fglrx and mipmapping
enabled in the Compiz plugin settings (e.g. the static window
switcher); though I could move windows after an ALT-TAB any update to
their content wouldn't display. I'm not sure if this has been fixed
since I turned off all mipmapping options when I got my Studio 1749
(then Catalyst version somewhere in the 11s?).

Jonathon

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Alt - tab misbehaving

[javadayaz]

so is this a hardware problem..?
what can i do to fix this?

On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 3:14 PM, J Fernyhough wrote:

> On 22 February 2012 13:46, javadayaz  wrote:
> > Recently ive found my system is crashing or unresponsive when i press Alt
> > tab to switch between programs..?
> >
> > Has anyone else seen this?
> >
>
> I've seen something similar(?) previously with fglrx and mipmapping
> enabled in the Compiz plugin settings (e.g. the static window
> switcher); though I could move windows after an ALT-TAB any update to
> their content wouldn't display. I'm not sure if this has been fixed
> since I turned off all mipmapping options when I got my Studio 1749
> (then Catalyst version somewhere in the 11s?).
>
> Jonathon
>
> --
> ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
>



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Javad
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] ubuntu-uk Digest, Vol 82, Issue 29

[Kevin Safford]

On 22/02/12 14:49, Andy Braben wrote:

It doesn't matter what operating system is being used, if a person is
being "lazy" and "can't be bothered with it" they won't be bothered by it
and won't install an application or setup a printer because it is beyond
them, or so they think.

If however they are full of enthusiasm and keen to learn, they will succeed
in installing some software, finding it, and running it.


I was going to stay out of this, but that just seems like an excuse for 
poorly designed software. I'd hope the Linux and Ubuntu community can do 
better. We certainly shouldn't be blaming the user.


FWIW, I moved from Windows to Ubuntu in 2008, when Hardy came out. I've 
stayed with the LTS releases, and never looked back. This year I will 
probably switch to Mint. I tried Ubuntu 11.10 in a virtual machine and 
hated it. Sure, I could work out how to do things, but I resent having 
to change my way of working to suit the software. (I have to do that too 
often at work!) I installed Mint 12 on a laptop, and so far have no 
complaints.

--
Kevin Safford

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Alt - tab misbehaving

[J Fernyhough]

On 22 February 2012 15:39, javadayaz  wrote:
> so is this a hardware problem..?
> what can i do to fix this?
>
> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 3:14 PM, J Fernyhough 
> wrote:
>>
>> On 22 February 2012 13:46, javadayaz  wrote:
>> > Recently ive found my system is crashing or unresponsive when i press
>> > Alt
>> > tab to switch between programs..?
>> >
>> > Has anyone else seen this?
>> >
>>
>> I've seen something similar(?) previously with fglrx and mipmapping
>> enabled in the Compiz plugin settings (e.g. the static window
>> switcher); though I could move windows after an ALT-TAB any update to
>> their content wouldn't display. I'm not sure if this has been fixed
>> since I turned off all mipmapping options when I got my Studio 1749
>> (then Catalyst version somewhere in the 11s?).
>>
>> Jonathon

Well, assuming it is mipmapping (which it may well not be!) the
easiest way I know of is to install ccsm ($ sudo apt-get install
compizconfig-settings-manager), open it, click on Advanced Search,
type mipmap into the filter, then go through each plugin in turn and
make sure the Mipmap checkbox is empty.

If this doesn't fix it, try running unity --replace in a terminal and
seeing if any descriptive error messages are shown when it starts
misbehaving.

Jonathon

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] ubuntu-uk Digest, Vol 82, Issue 29

[Avi Greenbury]

Kevin Safford wrote:

> I was going to stay out of this, but that just seems like an excuse
> for poorly designed software. I'd hope the Linux and Ubuntu community
> can do better. We certainly shouldn't be blaming the user.

Well, to an extent. It does seem weird to knowingly change which
system you're using and then complain of confusion caused by it being
different. Whenever you change anything you expect, well, change. 

-- 
Avi

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Alt - tab misbehaving

[javadayaz]

awesome...will try this when i get home! :)

On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 3:50 PM, J Fernyhough wrote:

> On 22 February 2012 15:39, javadayaz  wrote:
> > so is this a hardware problem..?
> > what can i do to fix this?
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 3:14 PM, J Fernyhough 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> On 22 February 2012 13:46, javadayaz  wrote:
> >> > Recently ive found my system is crashing or unresponsive when i press
> >> > Alt
> >> > tab to switch between programs..?
> >> >
> >> > Has anyone else seen this?
> >> >
> >>
> >> I've seen something similar(?) previously with fglrx and mipmapping
> >> enabled in the Compiz plugin settings (e.g. the static window
> >> switcher); though I could move windows after an ALT-TAB any update to
> >> their content wouldn't display. I'm not sure if this has been fixed
> >> since I turned off all mipmapping options when I got my Studio 1749
> >> (then Catalyst version somewhere in the 11s?).
> >>
> >> Jonathon
>
> Well, assuming it is mipmapping (which it may well not be!) the
> easiest way I know of is to install ccsm ($ sudo apt-get install
> compizconfig-settings-manager), open it, click on Advanced Search,
> type mipmap into the filter, then go through each plugin in turn and
> make sure the Mipmap checkbox is empty.
>
> If this doesn't fix it, try running unity --replace in a terminal and
> seeing if any descriptive error messages are shown when it starts
> misbehaving.
>
> Jonathon
>
> --
> ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
>



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Javad
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity is not working.

[Liam Proven]

On 22 February 2012 13:43, Kris Douglas  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Linux Mint is higher in the rankings than Ubuntu.
> I have just come off the phone with a customer, we write web
> applications and we prefer they use Google Chrome because we're
> planning to write a plugin and all sorts, but that is irrelevant.
>
> This customer called in, asked if he could install chrome on his new
> Ubuntu desktop. I thought, "Great, another Ubuntu user in the world".
> I got him to open Firefox and download TeamViewer (we have a premium
> license) so I could show him how to install Chrome. We went through
> the stages, got it installed and working, but then, he asked where to
> open TeamViewer. He said "It's not on the desktop icons down the left"
> and I directed him to open the applications menu "What applications
> menu?".

There *is* no applications menu in Unity.

There are various ways to accomplish what you want. The simplest would
have been to tell him to press the Windows key and type "teamviewer"
then hit return.

Instead, it sounds like you do not know the correct terminology to use
and are unable to describe to a remote user, using non-specialist
language, what you want him to do.

I too am a technical support specialist (among other things) and I too
remotely do telephone support for Linux users. In this instance, I am
afraid that I have to say that it sounds to me like the problem here
is nothing to do with Ubuntu or the user, it was your inadequate
language skills being unequal to the task of telling him what to do -
or your personal Ubuntu skills being insufficient in that you did know
know what he needed to do yourself.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity is not working.

[Alan Bell]

On 22/02/12 14:14, Kris Douglas wrote:


I am primarily a windows/ web developer (sadly). However I am not
going to say I don't have the time or anything like that. I will
happily attempt a mockup.

it is mostly not as hard as you might expect. I did some messing with 
the apps lens having never seen Vala code before and I got it doing what 
I wanted and sorting the applications into categories as per the gnome 
menu: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/appmenulens.png
I do want to rewrite this as a supplimentary lens that can sit alongside 
the main apps lens without conflicting with it so I will start again in 
python, but it was only just an hour or two to rip out the "recently 
used" and "stuff you don't have" categories and put in the familiar ones.


I will redo it in python with singlet and document the process
http://mhall119.com/2012/02/singlet-quickly-better-faster-simpler/


Alan.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity is not working.

[Liam Proven]

On 22 February 2012 16:05, Alan Bell  wrote:
> On 22/02/12 14:14, Kris Douglas wrote:
>>
>>
>> I am primarily a windows/ web developer (sadly). However I am not
>> going to say I don't have the time or anything like that. I will
>> happily attempt a mockup.
>>
> it is mostly not as hard as you might expect. I did some messing with the
> apps lens having never seen Vala code before and I got it doing what I
> wanted and sorting the applications into categories as per the gnome menu:
> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/appmenulens.png
> I do want to rewrite this as a supplimentary lens that can sit alongside the
> main apps lens without conflicting with it so I will start again in python,
> but it was only just an hour or two to rip out the "recently used" and
> "stuff you don't have" categories and put in the familiar ones.

Oh, very nice!

That is more or less exactly how I wanted it to work!


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity is not working.

[Kris Douglas]

That is perfect...

This is exactly what it needed, really good.

Sent from my Desire HD
On Feb 22, 2012 4:05 PM, "Alan Bell"  wrote:

> On 22/02/12 14:14, Kris Douglas wrote:
>
>>
>> I am primarily a windows/ web developer (sadly). However I am not
>> going to say I don't have the time or anything like that. I will
>> happily attempt a mockup.
>>
>>  it is mostly not as hard as you might expect. I did some messing with
> the apps lens having never seen Vala code before and I got it doing what I
> wanted and sorting the applications into categories as per the gnome menu:
> http://people.ubuntu.com/~**alanbell/appmenulens.png
> I do want to rewrite this as a supplimentary lens that can sit alongside
> the main apps lens without conflicting with it so I will start again in
> python, but it was only just an hour or two to rip out the "recently used"
> and "stuff you don't have" categories and put in the familiar ones.
>
> I will redo it in python with singlet and document the process
> http://mhall119.com/2012/02/**singlet-quickly-better-faster-**simpler/
>
>
> Alan.
>
> --
> The Open Learning Centre is rebranding, find out about our new name and
> look at http://libertus.co.uk
>
>
> --
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> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/**UKTeam/ 
>
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[ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu for Android......

[scoundrel50a]

Anybody seen this, sounds interesting.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/ubuntu-for-android-linux-desktop-on-a-smartphone/10402?tag=nl.e539 



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[ubuntu-uk] Heres an idea (Was "Unity is not working")

[David Smith]

I have to agree with most being said about Unity and how it is such a jump from 
what we were used to.  I understand the evolution of software, from one version 
to the next, but this felt like we were being forced to grow wings and webbed 
feet at the same time (no longer Linux for human beings).

What I haven't noticed is anyone saying that they've jumped to  Kubuntu (to 
stay faithful to *buntu).  I've had a go, and I'm pretty impressed.  It is as 
easy to find stuff as Ubuntu 10.10 (which I have been using on my netbook and 
am loathe to stop when support is discontinued).

It seemed to me that a whole load of customisation was taken away from the
user when Unity came in, but this is an opinion on limited information, since 
I've only dabbled, and my reaction after dabbling with Unity was a dismissive 
"Nh!!"

I suspect I will go to Mint on my netbook in due time.

Thoughts?
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Heres an idea (Was "Unity is not working")

[Kris Douglas]

I am using xubuntu at the moment. Its very nice but takes a fair bit of
tweaking. However I like the ability to tweak and/or break haha.

Sent from my Desire HD
On Feb 22, 2012 4:50 PM, "David Smith"  wrote:

> I have to agree with most being said about Unity and how it is such a jump
> from what we were used to.  I understand the evolution of software, from
> one version to the next, but this felt like we were being forced to grow
> wings and webbed feet at the same time (no longer Linux for human beings).
> 
>
> ** **
>
> What I haven’t noticed is anyone saying that they’ve jumped to  Kubuntu
> (to stay faithful to *buntu).  I’ve had a go, and I’m pretty impressed.  It
> is as easy to find stuff as Ubuntu 10.10 (which I have been using on my
> netbook and am loathe to stop when support is discontinued).
>
> ** **
>
> It seemed to me that a whole load of customisation was taken away from the
> 
>
> user when Unity came in, but this is an opinion on limited information,
> since I’ve only dabbled, and my reaction after dabbling with Unity was a
> dismissive “Nh!!”
>
> ** **
>
> I suspect I will go to Mint on my netbook in due time.
>
> ** **
>
> Thoughts?
>
> --
> ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
>
>
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu for Android......

[Simon Greenwood]

On 22 February 2012 16:42, scoundrel50a  wrote:

> Anybody seen this, sounds interesting.
>
> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/**open-source/ubuntu-for-**
> android-linux-desktop-on-a-**smartphone/10402?tag=nl.e539
>
>
It's currently the front page of ubuntu.com so Canonical are definitely
interested in it. As an idea it's certainly got potential but it is going
to need a phone builder to come on board to get anywhere.

s/
-- 
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"more of a stain than a globule"
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Heres an idea (Was "Unity is not working")

[J Fernyhough]

On 22 February 2012 16:51, David Smith  wrote:
> I have to agree with most being said about Unity and how it is such a jump
> from what we were used to.  I understand the evolution of software, from one
> version to the next, but this felt like we were being forced to grow wings
> and webbed feet at the same time (no longer Linux for human beings).
>
>
>
> What I haven’t noticed is anyone saying that they’ve jumped to  Kubuntu (to
> stay faithful to *buntu).  I’ve had a go, and I’m pretty impressed.  It is
> as easy to find stuff as Ubuntu 10.10 (which I have been using on my netbook
> and am loathe to stop when support is discontinued).
>
--snip--
>
> Thoughts?
>

I posted this almost a year ago:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1728976

Kubuntu does an even better job now as it has a launcher that works
almost exactly like the Unity one.

Jonathon

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[ubuntu-uk] Unity is not working

[Alex Cockell]

Hi Andy, 

You mentioned "It doesn't matter what operating system is being used, if
a person is
being "lazy" and "can't be bothered with it" they won't be bothered by
it
and won't install an application or setup a printer because it is beyond
them, or so they think.

If however they are full of enthusiasm and keen to learn, they will
succeed
in installing some software, finding it, and running it."

Umm - having worked in a 2nd-line support job for 10 years, I think the
concept of "end-user fear" is being missed here.  People who've learned
their basic muscle-memory computing knowledge from a work or academic
context - especially if non-technical - will pretty much always have the
apps that are available to them presented on a list in some form or
other.  The idea of searching around and discovering them is likely to
be pretty foreign to them... as this type of activity is actually
dissuaded.

Also - if they are coming to Ubuntu from Classic-type XP desktop
environments, then they'd probably be even more lost if they have to
search for a package - that they may not know.  Especially if they've
bought the machine preinstalled.

And if they're a non-admin?  It's perfectly possible then that they
could think that the distro is a "free trial" if coming away from
Windows or Mac



-- 
Alex Cockell
a...@acockell.eclipse.co.uk



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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Heres an idea (Was "Unity is not working")

[Avi Greenbury]

David Smith wrote:
> I have to agree with most being said about Unity and how it is such a
> jump from what we were used to.  

Sure, but did you need to do it in yet another brand new thread?

> I understand the evolution of software, from one version to the next,
> but this felt like we were being forced to grow wings and webbed feet
> at the same time (no longer Linux for human beings).

What? It's linux for ducks? I can see several things that're a bit
wrong with unity, and more that I disagree with, but I'd not go so far
as to suggest that much of it is fundamentally hard for what I've long
assumed to be the sorts of humans Ubuntu advertises itself as for.

> What I haven't noticed is anyone saying that they've jumped to
> Kubuntu (to stay faithful to *buntu).  I've had a go, and I'm pretty
> impressed.  It is as easy to find stuff as Ubuntu 10.10 (which I have
> been using on my netbook and am loathe to stop when support is
> discontinued).

I've known many people go to KDE but few stay. Most people who want to
'stay faithful' switch to XFCE which has the advantage of looking like
old Gnome did.

> It seemed to me that a whole load of customisation was taken away
> from the user when Unity came in, but this is an opinion on limited
> information, since I've only dabbled, and my reaction after dabbling
> with Unity was a dismissive "Nh!!"
> 
> I suspect I will go to Mint on my netbook in due time.
> 
> Thoughts?

Well, it's probably worth doing more than just a dismissive "Naaah"
before abandoning it.

-- 
Avi.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Heres an idea (Was "Unity is not working")

[Joe]

I recently moved to Linix Mint on my netbook, reluctantly though because I 
wanted to stay *buntu, but after trying Xubuntu and Kubuntu I didn't really 
find that any were quite perfect.

After moving to Mint, I have to say I'm pleased with it. It has all the ease 
and efficiency that Ubuntu used to have on a netbook, but uses a nicer 
interface than Unity.

That said, I can't bring myself to switch my main desktop PC away from Ubuntu…
Sent via BlackBerry® from Orange

-Original Message-
From: David Smith 
Sender: ubuntu-uk-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 16:51:35 
To: 'ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com'
Reply-To: UK Ubuntu Talk 
Subject: [ubuntu-uk] Heres an idea (Was "Unity is not working")

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[ubuntu-uk] Fwd: [ubuntu-web] Ubuntu 12.04 Countdown banner competition

[Alan Bell]

any artistic types out there who want to get their work a *huge* number 
of views

(and no, I don't know what the  characters are in the mail)

Alan.

 Original Message 
*Ubuntu 12.04 LTS is just around the corner!*

As in the past, we'd like to create a new countdown banner to share 
across the web. If you would like to make a highly visible contribution 
to Ubuntu, this is your chance.


Just shortly after the Beta launch (about 30 days before release) we'd 
like to launch a new countdown banner that says something like "30 
more days until Ubuntu 12.04 LTS" Each day the banner will decrease by 
one until the release day, April 26th. On the 26th it will say something 
like "It's almost here" or similar. Then when we do the release the 
slide will change to "it's here!" (remember to include the apostrophe in 
"it's"!)


*How can you help?*

Create a graphic representing what you think the countdown should look 
like. It is not necessary to create an entire set of images. Instead, do 
a couple to demonstrate your idea. The community and Canonical staff 
will choose the official banners and maybe give some guidance in case a 
change is needed to polish it up. Lets aim to *get submissions in by 
Monday, March 12th*. But don't wait until the end, release early, 
release often, so they say.


*Guidelines*

Detailed here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/PreciseCountdownBanner 
but in essence:


180px wide by 150px high. No PHP or flash. We'd like to make a static, 
plain image available but if the community would like to make an 
animated or interactive, iframe based image using js and static content 
we will gladly consider it.Â


Starting at the Beta release Ubuntu changes from the code name of 
"Precise Pangolin" to "Ubuntu 12.04 LTS" it would probably be 
inappropriate to over-emphasize pangolin graphics.


Please attach your suggestions to the wiki page listed above. If you 
have questions or would like to discuss this, please email the Web 
Presence Team mailing list[1] or hop onto the IRC chat room, 
#ubuntu-website on freenode.


I can't wait to see your ideas!

[1]Â https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-website

--
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newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin and twitter

♫ You're never fully dressed without a smile! ♫



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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Alt - tab misbehaving

[Gareth France]

I have, switching to Unity 2D solved the issue.
On 22/02/12 13:46, javadayaz wrote:
Recently ive found my system is crashing or unresponsive when i press 
Alt tab to switch between programs..?


Has anyone else seen this?

--

Regards

Javad





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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Heres an idea (Was "Unity is not working")

[Pete Smout]

On 22/02/12 18:16, Joe wrote:

I recently moved to Linix Mint on my netbook, reluctantly though because I 
wanted to stay *buntu, but after trying Xubuntu and Kubuntu I didn't really 
find that any were quite perfect.

After moving to Mint, I have to say I'm pleased with it. It has all the ease 
and efficiency that Ubuntu used to have on a netbook, but uses a nicer 
interface than Unity.

That said, I can't bring myself to switch my main desktop PC away from Ubuntu…
Sent via BlackBerry® from Orange

-Original Message-
From: David Smith
Sender: ubuntu-uk-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 16:51:35
To: 'ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com'
Reply-To: UK Ubuntu Talk
Subject: [ubuntu-uk] Heres an idea (Was "Unity is not working")


Hi,

FWIW I have tried Unity and Xfce, KDE, GNOME 3, and have found all 
wanting in some regards, but to say Unity is being forced upon us is 
very wide of the mark. We all have a choice we can stay with Lucid 
(GNOME 2) until support expires (2015 I think but not sure) or we can 
install Xbuntu, Kubuntu without being 'unfaithful' to the Ubuntu 
project, or we can go over to Mint or Arios both of which are 
derivatives of Ubuntu (I'm sure there are others).


Those of us slightly more experimental can install such window managers 
/ docks as AWN, Cario Doc, Docky, and others and completely change the 
look and feel of the graphical interface.


Choice is everywhere!

I have not tried precise as I have been unable to successfully install 
it on either my desktop or laptop, but I am sure the Unity graphical 
interface will have progressed from 11-10 in much the same way as our 
beloved Gnome 2 developed from my 'joining' Ubuntu (8-10) to 10-04 lucid!


My point I suppose is if you don't like it don't use it or change it 
moaning achieves nothing.


Regards,

Pete

sent from Ubuntu 10-04 LTS (Lucid Lynx).


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Alt - tab misbehaving

[javadayaz]

so i got this:

"Checking if settings need to be migrated ...no
Checking if internal files need to be migrated ...no
Backend : gconf
Integration : true
Profile : unity
Adding plugins
Skipping upgrade com.canonical.unity.unity.01.upgrade
Skipping upgrade com.canonical.unity.unity.02.upgrade
Initializing core options...done
Initializing bailer options...done
Initializing detection options...done
Initializing composite options...done
Initializing opengl options...done
Initializing decor options...done
Initializing resize options...done
Initializing snap options...done
Initializing move options...done
Initializing place options...done
Initializing session options...done
Initializing vpswitch options...done
Initializing unitymtgrabhandles options...done
Initializing grid options...done
Initializing mousepoll options...done
Initializing gnomecompat options...done
Initializing wall options...done
Initializing animation options...done
Initializing fade options...done
Initializing workarounds options...done
compiz (expo) - Warn: failed to bind image to texture
Initializing expo options...done
Initializing ezoom options...done
Initializing scale options...done

Screen geometry changed:
   0x0x1366x768

unity-panel-service: no process found
Initializing unityshell options...done
DEBUG 2012-02-22 19:38:17 glib :0 Setting to primary screen rect:
x=0 y=0 w=1366 h=768
WARN  2012-02-22 19:38:17 glib :0 Failed to fetch view type at
/org/ayatana/bamf/window37748739: Method "ViewType" with signature "" on
interface "org.ayatana.bamf.view" doesn't exist

WARN  2012-02-22 19:38:17 glib :0 Failed to fetch view type at
/org/ayatana/bamf/window37748740: Method "ViewType" with signature "" on
interface "org.ayatana.bamf.view" doesn't exist

WARN  2012-02-22 19:38:17 glib :0 Failed to fetch view type at
/org/ayatana/bamf/window37748738: Method "ViewType" with signature "" on
interface "org.ayatana.bamf.view" doesn't exist

WARN  2012-02-22 19:38:17 glib :0 Failed to fetch view type at
/org/ayatana/bamf/window65011718: Method "ViewType" with signature "" on
interface "org.ayatana.bamf.view" doesn't exist

WARN  2012-02-22 19:38:17 glib :0 Failed to fetch view type at
/org/ayatana/bamf/application0x9cc3188: Method "ViewType" with signature ""
on interface "org.ayatana.bamf.view" doesn't exist

WARN  2012-02-22 19:38:17 glib :0 Failed to fetch view type at
/org/ayatana/bamf/application0x9cc3188: Method "ViewType" with signature ""
on interface "org.ayatana.bamf.view" doesn't exist

Setting Update "run_command_terminal_key"
Setting Update "fullscreen_visual_bell"
compiz (core) - Warn: failed to receive ConfigureNotify event on 0x3400047"


any ideas?


On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 6:21 PM, Gareth France wrote:

>  I have, switching to Unity 2D solved the issue.
>
> On 22/02/12 13:46, javadayaz wrote:
>
> Recently ive found my system is crashing or unresponsive when i press Alt
> tab to switch between programs..?
>
>  Has anyone else seen this?
>
>  --
>
>  Regards
>
>  Javad
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
>
>


-- 

Regards

Javad
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu for Android......

[javadayaz]

motorola already Kinda do this.

See the motorola atrix!

On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 4:55 PM, Simon Greenwood wrote:

>
>
> On 22 February 2012 16:42, scoundrel50a  wrote:
>
>> Anybody seen this, sounds interesting.
>>
>> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/**open-source/ubuntu-for-**
>> android-linux-desktop-on-a-**smartphone/10402?tag=nl.e539
>>
>>
> It's currently the front page of ubuntu.com so Canonical are definitely
> interested in it. As an idea it's certainly got potential but it is going
> to need a phone builder to come on board to get anywhere.
>
> s/
> --
> Twitter: @sfgreenwood
> "more of a stain than a globule"
>
>
> --
> ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
>
>


-- 

Regards

Javad
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Fwd: [ubuntu-web] Ubuntu 12.04 Countdown banner competition

[Jim Price]

On 22/02/12 18:16, Alan Bell wrote:

any artistic types out there who want to get their work a *huge* number
of views
(and no, I don't know what the  characters are in the mail)


This explains the  characters:

http://ask.metafilter.com/71246/What-the-%C3%82

Watch the %C3%82 change into an  if your browser interprets it and it 
works. If it doesn't work, there is probably something wrong with your 
browser. Also, if it doesn't work it's best summarised by this line from 
the web page:


"I had managed to write half of what was a very detailed explanation of 
the difference between ISO-8859-1 and UTF-8. I lost it in a freak 
keyboard accident and am not going to repeat it."


Ubuntu uses UTF-8 for most things. ISO-8859-1 is polluted by the 
Microsoft "we are the standard" implementation, which seems so prevalent 
that I even had to change the default settings in Thunderbird to avoid it.


If you can read my .sig, your UTF-8 is working.

--
  ╔═╦═╦═╦═══╗
  ║ ║ ║ ║   ║
╔═╝ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ╔═╝
╚═══╩═╩═╩═╩═╩═╝  -- UTF-8 JimP.



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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity is not working.

[Jim Price]

On 22/02/12 16:05, Alan Bell wrote:


it is mostly not as hard as you might expect. I did some messing with
the apps lens having never seen Vala code before and I got it doing what
I wanted and sorting the applications into categories as per the gnome
menu: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/appmenulens.png


Now that's an improvement! What it needs is a user customisable 
favourites section at the top, and little triangles to fold the other 
categories to save space and I'd use it.



I do want to rewrite this as a supplimentary lens that can sit alongside
the main apps lens without conflicting with it so I will start again in
python, but it was only just an hour or two to rip out the "recently
used" and "stuff you don't have" categories and put in the familiar ones.


Is there any chance you could do a quick writeup of what you did, as I 
think that would be very useful for those of us who want to customise 
things, even if it does require some programming.



I will redo it in python with singlet and document the process
http://mhall119.com/2012/02/singlet-quickly-better-faster-simpler/


Excellent!

--
JimP


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Last / next meeting + Ubuntu jam

[Bruno Girin]

On 21/02/12 22:35, Daniel Drummond wrote:


I'm in Manchester too, would be interested if anything is going on.



Worst case scenario, we can always do a "Ubuntu Happy Hour" in a pub or 
other. It's not as if Manchester was short in drinking establishments 
:-) I just can't do the 3rd (Saturday) in the evening but could do any 
other time from Wednesday evening to Sunday lunchtime.



On Feb 21, 2012 10:22 PM, "Bruno Girin" > wrote:


Hi all,

The minutes of the last meeting at the moment show the 12th Jan
and the current agenda is for the 2nd Feb. Does anybody know when
the next meeting is or have I missed it?

Also, is anybody doing anything for the Ubuntu Jam in Manchester
(as I'll be up North that week-end)?

Cheers,

Bruno

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Last / next meeting + Ubuntu jam

[Les Pounder]

Hi everyone

There'll be another UCubed event on April 28th.

UCubed is a Debian and Ubuntu unconference that is hosted at Madlab, in the
Northern Quarter of Manchester.
It's free to attend, and is a full day of talks, workshops and networking.

Stop by ucubed.info for details of last years event. The website will be
updated in the next few weeks for this years event.

Thanks
Les Pounder


On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 8:56 PM, Bruno Girin  wrote:

>  On 21/02/12 22:35, Daniel Drummond wrote:
>
> I'm in Manchester too, would be interested if anything is going on.
>
>
> Worst case scenario, we can always do a "Ubuntu Happy Hour" in a pub or
> other. It's not as if Manchester was short in drinking establishments :-) I
> just can't do the 3rd (Saturday) in the evening but could do any other time
> from Wednesday evening to Sunday lunchtime.
>
>
>
>  On Feb 21, 2012 10:22 PM, "Bruno Girin"  wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> The minutes of the last meeting at the moment show the 12th Jan and the
>> current agenda is for the 2nd Feb. Does anybody know when the next meeting
>> is or have I missed it?
>>
>> Also, is anybody doing anything for the Ubuntu Jam in Manchester (as I'll
>> be up North that week-end)?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Bruno
>>
>> --
>> ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
>>
>
>
>
>
> --
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>
>
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity is not working.

[Bruno Girin]

On 22/02/12 14:29, Kris Douglas wrote:
... However the system could once for the first time the user uses the 
system lay an overlay over the top explaining how to use the menus, etc.


Interestingly enough, Unity 5 in Precise does something similar: it 
displays an overlay when you press the Super key to tell you about all 
the cool keyboard shortcuts. So that sort of concepts is already 
supported. Why don't you file a bug asking for it with explanations of 
how it would improve user experience?


Cheers,

Bruno


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Last / next meeting + Ubuntu jam

[Alan Bell]

On 21/02/12 22:21, Bruno Girin wrote:

Hi all,

The minutes of the last meeting at the moment show the 12th Jan and 
the current agenda is for the 2nd Feb. Does anybody know when the next 
meeting is or have I missed it?


The last meeting was kind of quiet
Here are the minutes
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/MeetingNotes/20120202
I think we need to set the next meeting for a time that more people can 
attend to be more productive. Any suggestions for a date/time for the 
next one?


Alan.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Last / next meeting + Ubuntu jam

[Daniel Drummond]

Sounds interesting. I will put it in the calendar.

On 22 February 2012 21:04, Les Pounder  wrote:

> Hi everyone
>
> There'll be another UCubed event on April 28th.
>
> UCubed is a Debian and Ubuntu unconference that is hosted at Madlab, in
> the Northern Quarter of Manchester.
> It's free to attend, and is a full day of talks, workshops and networking.
>
> Stop by ucubed.info for details of last years event. The website will be
> updated in the next few weeks for this years event.
>
> Thanks
> Les Pounder
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 8:56 PM, Bruno Girin  wrote:
>
>>  On 21/02/12 22:35, Daniel Drummond wrote:
>>
>> I'm in Manchester too, would be interested if anything is going on.
>>
>>
>> Worst case scenario, we can always do a "Ubuntu Happy Hour" in a pub or
>> other. It's not as if Manchester was short in drinking establishments :-) I
>> just can't do the 3rd (Saturday) in the evening but could do any other time
>> from Wednesday evening to Sunday lunchtime.
>>
>>
>>
>>  On Feb 21, 2012 10:22 PM, "Bruno Girin"  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> The minutes of the last meeting at the moment show the 12th Jan and the
>>> current agenda is for the 2nd Feb. Does anybody know when the next meeting
>>> is or have I missed it?
>>>
>>> Also, is anybody doing anything for the Ubuntu Jam in Manchester (as
>>> I'll be up North that week-end)?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Bruno
>>>
>>> --
>>> ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
>>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
>>
>>
>
> --
> ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
>
>
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Last / next meeting + Ubuntu jam

[Bruno Girin]

On 22/02/12 22:14, Alan Bell wrote:

On 21/02/12 22:21, Bruno Girin wrote:

Hi all,

The minutes of the last meeting at the moment show the 12th Jan and 
the current agenda is for the 2nd Feb. Does anybody know when the 
next meeting is or have I missed it?


The last meeting was kind of quiet
Here are the minutes
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/MeetingNotes/20120202
I think we need to set the next meeting for a time that more people 
can attend to be more productive. Any suggestions for a date/time for 
the next one?


8 or 9pm is normally OK as that gives most people time to come back from 
work. Then again, the last one disproves that theory :-)


Bruno


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