Re: Ubuntu Advanced?
> > > skripts, that generate configurationfiles, for everything they see and > > keep it forever > > - better tested (community is there to help, some unixers would like > > easy-to-maintain systems for ther families too) > > But it is already tested a lot and it is easy to maintain for > families, there are lot of stories about grandma using Ubuntu floating > around. > > > - A centralized configuration that is under /etc/ and not too often > > changed by scripts, only if that is explicitly necessary. > > It is already done, as a basic principle of Debian and therefore Ubuntu too. > > > And a bit more tidied-up configuration-tools that really use /etc/ > > like the admin does. > > Yes, I agree, some nice guis for some uncovered system settings would be nice. > > > Ubuntu was so nice and tidy, because of its debian-flavour in the > > beginnig and now its too much affected by many skript-features, that > > make your life hard. > Just an example that I was arguing with yesterday: /etc/resolv.conf. It's auto-generated by NetworkManager. I like NM; don't get me wrong, but if you need to change the DNS (or other) settings from the command prompt, it's really a pain. --Dane -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Advanced?
Dane Mutters wrote: > Just an example that I was arguing with yesterday: /etc/resolv.conf. > It's auto-generated by NetworkManager. I like NM; don't get me wrong, > but if you need to change the DNS (or other) settings from the command > prompt, it's really a pain. > > --Dane Hi Dane, Whilst i appreciate that is just an example, that particular issue can be overcome with, appending: "prepend domain-name-servers $SOME_DNS_SERVER,$DNS_SERVER_2;" to: /etc/dhcp3/dhclient.conf Then you have two DNS servers,at the top of /etc/resolv.conf Kind Regards, Dave Walker -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
RE: Ubuntu Advanced?
There is absolutely no way I would have figured that out in under a week. The Ubuntu Community is great, especially with questions such as this, but for the average user (with limited technical knowledge or understanding) a GUI for these sorts of things would be a better solution. That said, my family use Ubuntu with hardly any fuss, and have done for a couple of years. Maybe it's the fact they conincidently use well supported Dell laptops, but Ubuntu Just Works(tm) for them. -Original Message- From: ubuntu-devel-discuss-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com [mailto:ubuntu-devel-discuss-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com]on Behalf Of Dave Walker Sent: 28 August 2009 18:19 To: Dane Mutters Cc: ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com; Jan-Michael Heller Subject: Re: Ubuntu Advanced? Dane Mutters wrote: > Just an example that I was arguing with yesterday: /etc/resolv.conf. > It's auto-generated by NetworkManager. I like NM; don't get me wrong, > but if you need to change the DNS (or other) settings from the command > prompt, it's really a pain. > > --Dane Hi Dane, Whilst i appreciate that is just an example, that particular issue can be overcome with, appending: "prepend domain-name-servers $SOME_DNS_SERVER,$DNS_SERVER_2;" to: /etc/dhcp3/dhclient.conf Then you have two DNS servers,at the top of /etc/resolv.conf Kind Regards, Dave Walker -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss ** It is the policy of the MPS that: MPS personnel (or agents working on behalf of the MPS) must not use MPS systems to author, transmit or store documents such as electronic mail (e-mail) messages or attachments: * containing racist, homophobic, sexist, defamatory, offensive, illegal or otherwise inappropriate material; * containing material requiring a protective marking higher than RESTRICTED, (and not higher than NOT PROTECTIVELY MARKED across the internet) without the use of approved encryption; * containing personal data for use other than in accordance with the notification(s) under the Data Protection Act, 1998 of the system(s) from which the data originates. * This Email message has been scanned for viruses and contents. ** -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
RE: Why Ubuntu is not ready for prime time
Quicken, Outlook, Powerpoint, they're all bizzare names. Doesn't mean that Ubuntu can't do one better ;-) I believe the menu system is better in Ubuntu than Windows, however all apps could do with having their function added to their name. As like "Firefox Web Browser". We know what Firefox is, but in my office (still working on Windows 2000!) I don't think I'm the majority. -Original Message- From: ubuntu-devel-discuss-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com [mailto:ubuntu-devel-discuss-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com]on Behalf Of Paul Smith Sent: 27 August 2009 17:59 To: Vincent Arnoux Cc: ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: Why Ubuntu is not ready for prime time On Thu, 2009-08-27 at 18:48 +0200, Vincent Arnoux wrote: > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 18:23, Dotan Cohen wrote: > >> I guess Jonathan Taylor is joking or trolling here, one of the main > >> advantage of using Linux distributions for desktops is that every > >> application is automatically categorized where, on Windows, every > >> application is NOT categorized... > >> > >> Start->Programs->Adobe->Photoshop v.x->Photoshop > >> > > > > How is one supposed to know to look under "Adobe" for Photoshop? Why > > isn't it under "Graphics" or "Photo Editors" or some such menu? > > After the application is installed, a bubble notification guides you > to the newly installed program by highlighting the path in the start > menu. This part would be nice to see in our DE's. This enhancement would be nice, but I'm sure you'll agree it's in no way comparable to having sane menus in the first place. It's great the first time you install something but what about an application you use only once in a great while? The second time you need it the highlighting will be long gone, and yet you can't remember where in the heck that program went to! Also, Windows has it's own fair share of programs whose names are not very evocative. If it wasn't one of the most well-known programs in the world would you guess that "Quicken" was a program for handling your finances? Cheers! -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss ** It is the policy of the MPS that: MPS personnel (or agents working on behalf of the MPS) must not use MPS systems to author, transmit or store documents such as electronic mail (e-mail) messages or attachments: * containing racist, homophobic, sexist, defamatory, offensive, illegal or otherwise inappropriate material; * containing material requiring a protective marking higher than RESTRICTED, (and not higher than NOT PROTECTIVELY MARKED across the internet) without the use of approved encryption; * containing personal data for use other than in accordance with the notification(s) under the Data Protection Act, 1998 of the system(s) from which the data originates. * This Email message has been scanned for viruses and contents. ** -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
RE: Why Ubuntu is not ready for prime time
On Fri, 2009-08-28 at 18:30 +0100, paul.mcma...@met.police.uk wrote:
> Quicken, Outlook, Powerpoint, they're all bizzare names.
> Doesn't mean that Ubuntu can't do one better ;-)
>
>
> I believe the menu system is better in Ubuntu than Windows, however
> all apps could do with having their function added to their name.
> As like "Firefox Web Browser". We know what Firefox is, but in my
> office (still working on Windows 2000!) I don't think I'm the
> majority.
I'm not disagreeing with your statement, I just think that your wish is
already largely a reality. I took a look through my menus (9.04) and as
far as I can tell ALL the standard applications have their function
shown, either by itself ("Terminal") or in addition to the name
("Rhythmbox Music Player").
There are some apps I've installed from multiverse, etc. that are not
standard parts of Ubuntu where this pattern is not followed (e.g.,
"Emacs 22") but things you've explicitly installed yourself are less
critical in this respect.
If you find apps where this isn't the case I think filing a bug in
Launchpad is perfectly reasonable.
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RE: Why Ubuntu is not ready for prime time
Awesome :-)
I didn't realise this was the case. I've got quite a few non-standard apps
installed, so that's probably why I haven't noticed. Gnome Baker for example,
if that were literal!.
-Original Message-
From: Paul Smith [mailto:p...@mad-scientist.us]
Sent: 28 August 2009 19:07
To: McManus Paul - GD
Cc: ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Subject: RE: Why Ubuntu is not ready for prime time
On Fri, 2009-08-28 at 18:30 +0100, paul.mcma...@met.police.uk wrote:
Quicken, Outlook, Powerpoint, they're all bizzare names.
Doesn't mean that Ubuntu can't do one better ;-)
I believe the menu system is better in Ubuntu than Windows, however all apps
could do with having their function added to their name.
As like "Firefox Web Browser". We know what Firefox is, but in my office (still
working on Windows 2000!) I don't think I'm the majority.
I'm not disagreeing with your statement, I just think that your wish is already
largely a reality. I took a look through my menus (9.04) and as far as I can
tell ALL the standard applications have their function shown, either by itself
("Terminal") or in addition to the name ("Rhythmbox Music Player").
There are some apps I've installed from multiverse, etc. that are not standard
parts of Ubuntu where this pattern is not followed (e.g., "Emacs 22") but
things you've explicitly installed yourself are less critical in this respect.
If you find apps where this isn't the case I think filing a bug in Launchpad is
perfectly reasonable.
**
It is the policy of the MPS that:
MPS personnel (or agents working on behalf of the MPS) must not use
MPS systems to author, transmit or store documents such as electronic mail
(e-mail) messages or attachments:
* containing racist, homophobic, sexist, defamatory, offensive,
illegal or otherwise inappropriate material;
* containing material requiring a protective marking higher than
RESTRICTED, (and not higher than NOT PROTECTIVELY MARKED across
the internet) without the use of approved encryption;
* containing personal data for use other than in accordance with
the notification(s) under the Data Protection Act, 1998 of the
system(s) from which the data originates.
* This Email message has been scanned for viruses and contents.
**
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RE: Ubuntu Advanced?
On Fri, 2009-08-28 at 18:26 +0100, paul.mcma...@met.police.uk wrote: > There is absolutely no way I would have figured that out in under a > week. > The Ubuntu Community is great, especially with questions such as this, > but for the average user (with limited technical knowledge or > understanding) a GUI for these sorts of things would be a better > solution. There *is* a GUI for this (I'm looking at it in 9.04): System -> Preferences -> Network connections. The question was specifically how to do it on the command line: On Fri, 2009-08-28 at 10:09 -0700, Dane Mutters wrote: > Just an example that I was arguing with yesterday: /etc/resolv.conf. > It's auto-generated by NetworkManager. I like NM; don't get me wrong, > but if you need to change the DNS (or other) settings from the command > prompt, it's really a pain. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Advanced?
Dane Mutters wrote: > Just an example that I was arguing with yesterday: /etc/resolv.conf. > It's auto-generated by NetworkManager. I like NM; don't get me wrong, > but if you need to change the DNS (or other) settings from the command > prompt, it's really a pain. Hi Dane, The 'resolvconf' package is a rather sophisticated framework for controlling how /etc/resolv.conf is generated, and NetworkManager will use it if it is installed. For example, I use it to add a "search mycompany.com" statement to /etc/resolv.conf that persists when NetworkManager rewrites the file to change the nameservers. Max. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
RE: Why Ubuntu is not ready for prime time
Here is another reason. The documentation is lacking, big gaps and holes in it. Take a look at help.ubuntu.com and lets just choose something at random. Try find a clear, concise example of how to configure multiple public facing IP addresses/ethernet boards in 9.04 KVM. Not there. Want another example, go again to the server docs and try and find where it talks about mapping an ethernet device (ethx) to a specific NIC, nope not there. There are all sorts of holes like this all over "official" Ubuntu documentation. Really the docs have got to get a whole lot better to make this happen. There is lots of information, half of it not relevant to the current version etc, etc. I really like Ubuntu but I struggle to find how to do some simple things at times, I've been using Linux for many years and if I have problems, you can imagine how new users must feel. Documentation AND examples are one of the most important things there is. Cheers George -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Why Ubuntu is not ready for prime time
Hi I think most people are missing the point, how many Windows users know even to format their system and re-install? My guess is less than 20%. As far as general users are concerned it is about, getting things done and stop at that. These kind of technical issues and specific setups that you are talking about are not the reason why Ubuntu is not yet used widely. It all comes down to marketing... 1. Who will market or sell a product to a client or customer that is free? 2. The idea that Windows is the prettier one! :) (I mean even we all do pretty much the same thing on bed but we all long for the prettier ones! :)) Once these prejudices and marketing is taken care of, I think everything else will fall to the right places by default. Just my 2 cents Warm Regards On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 1:12 AM, George Farris wrote: > Here is another reason. > > The documentation is lacking, big gaps and holes in it. Take a look at > help.ubuntu.com and lets just choose something at random. > > Try find a clear, concise example of how to configure multiple public > facing IP addresses/ethernet boards in 9.04 KVM. Not there. > > Want another example, go again to the server docs and try and find where > it talks about mapping an ethernet device (ethx) to a specific NIC, nope > not there. > > There are all sorts of holes like this all over "official" Ubuntu > documentation. Really the docs have got to get a whole lot better to > make this happen. There is lots of information, half of it not relevant > to the current version etc, etc. > > I really like Ubuntu but I struggle to find how to do some simple things > at times, I've been using Linux for many years and if I have problems, > you can imagine how new users must feel. > > Documentation AND examples are one of the most important things there > is. > > Cheers > George > > > > > > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
