Add SwissSign to ca-certificates

[Roman Hoog Antink]

Hi there

The swiss biggest mail company "Die Post" uses Certificates from the 
SwissSign CA.

Please add the SwissSign Certificates to the ca-certificates package.

The official website is here:
http://swisssign.com/operations/neue-swisssign-issuing-ca-zertifikate.html

On that page the download link is mentioned:
http://swisssign.com/images/stories/TechnicalFiles/swisssignissuingcertificates2008.zip

The funny thing is, that the package description of ca-certificates 
claims, it includes all CA's from Mozilla. But it does not contain 
SwissSign Certs, while Firefox does.

Roman

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Re: Looking at Package Management for Karmic or Karmic+1

[John Vivirito]

On 03/31/2009 06:19 PM, Evan wrote:
> While apt, synaptic, update-manager, and gnome-app-install all do decent
> jobs of providing front-ends for package management, there are a few issues
> and common feature requests which bear taking a look at. This is a strawman,
> so feel free to rip it apart as necessary.
> 
> PolicyKit
> Synaptic runs fully as root. Unless there is a specific reason not to,
> should it not be migrated to PolicyKit?
>

The reason they start up as root is because other than browsing the
packages is to install/remove and change repo settings. Most people that
browse packages will install at least one. I guess i don't get the idea.

> Modal Dialogues
> All three of the GUIs currently use modal dialogues for the actual
> download/install process, and this is considered a usability issue AFAIK
> (I'm not a usability expert by any stretch of the imagination, please
> correct me if I'm wrong). I believe most people would like to be able to
> continue browsing available applications, or reading changelogs of updates
> while the packages are downloading and installing.

What do you mean as a usability feature more so than "issue"

> Queuing
> The ability to start an install process, and then decide to queue another
> app to install / update after the first is finished.
> 
> Parallelism
> Starting the install process in parallel with the download process as soon
> as the first packages are finished downloading. (I got this idea from
> brainstorm, but I can no longer find the relevant idea.)

By this you mean being able to browse packages while upgrade/install
packages? Than start download of the packages you choose to upgrade/install?
I dont remember off hand why we only let one apt/dpkg run at one time
but it has been that way a long time IIRC.
IMHO this idea can cause problems, example: It can cause corrupt
files/links. Now I'm not sure how true this is If this is wrong please
feel free to comment.
-- 
Sincerely Yours,
John Vivirito

https://launchpad.net/~gnomefreak
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnVivirito
Linux User# 414246

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Re: The new logout design can cause unwanted reboots

[Mat Tomaszewski]

Vincenzo Ciancia wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I recall that ctrl+alt+backspace was disabled because it can be hit
> accidentally. A similar thing happened to me; I experienced an unwanted
> reboot and it's not so pleasant, even if I didn't loose any work.
>
> ...
>
> Vincenzo
>
>
>   
This is a very valid point. We are currently investigating possible 
alternative solutions and we're hoping to introduce a much better 
experience as soon as possible (sorry no commitments as yet!)

Thanks for raising this.

Mat

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The new logout design can cause unwanted reboots

[Vincenzo Ciancia]

Hi all,

I recall that ctrl+alt+backspace was disabled because it can be hit
accidentally. A similar thing happened to me; I experienced an unwanted
reboot and it's not so pleasant, even if I didn't loose any work.

I hit ctrl+alt+canc by "mistake" that is, trying to do something else; I
likely had some full screen window, hence the popup must have finished
below other windows. I have a decent monitor now (19'') and I didn't
actually see the flashing down in the bar (it's really too few
contrasted for LCD monitors, I am looking at it now). Then after the
timeout it turned off my system. 

With the extremely high focus on usability that ubuntu has, it is
impossible that we don't have a better solution: I see the need for a
confirmation pop-up, I see the need to have it unfocused to avoid
hitting it by mistake, I don't quite see the need for a timeout (I hate
it) but I assume that it had some planning and there are reasons for
that, but I also see the need to be more clear when... the system is
going to be turned off in a minute! What if my boss enters the room,
starts talking to me and I forget about the dialog? 

I suppose there was a discussion on that, but could we see if there is
some easy improvement? Perhaps at least a notification should be issued,
but even better, the window should get on top of other windows, and
unclickable, for a few seconds, then maybe go to bottom, or just become
clickable. Also, the good old dimmed screen was really helpful to
understand that something serious was going to happen. I see, changes
happened and We Shall no go Back. However, this does not work (at least
for me) as it currently is. Finally, what about a slightly longer
timeout? 

Vincenzo


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Re: jaunty DVD

[richard.b...@blueyonder.co.uk]

Nils Kassube wrote:
> richard.b...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
>> Is there a DVD image lurking any where, 
>> pref jaunty, but intrepid would do.
> 
> Try one of these:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nils
> 
Hi
I downloaded 9.04 beta last night, i386 version.
I've just tried on a Dell machine, as a live cd , not much good as it 
only starts in low res mode..
When installed it got as far as starting X, then failed with:-
"failed to pin front buffer: could not allocate memory"
"fatal server error
Couldn't bind memory to BO front buffer.
 From the log the graphics controller is Intel 82865G, and the problem 
occurred after loading the 865G module. Of course nothing editable to 
get around it as I didn't have root privileges to edit the xorg.conf file.

Is this a known bug or do I file a new bug report ?

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Richard Bown

#
Registered Linux User 36561
OS: Ubuntu 8.10, Intrepid, on AMD Dual Athlon 64 +4400: 8 GB RAM DDR2
Ham Call: G8JVM , QRA IO82SP, Interests Microwave



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Re: jaunty DVD

[Alan Pope]

2009/4/1 richard.b...@blueyonder.co.uk :
> Is this a known bug or do I file a new bug report ?
>

Tip: Read the release notes at
http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/jaunty/beta specifically
http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/jaunty/beta#Known%20issues

"Some users of Intel i8x5 video chipsets are unable to load X, getting
an error message of "Fatal server error: Couldn't bind memory for BO
front buffer". As a workaround, use the VESA driver by logging into a
text console, running "sudo nano /etc/X11/xorg.conf", and adding the
line Driver "vesa" to the Device section. An alternative
(experimental) workaround is to use the UXA acceleration method (see
below). If in doubt, please do not upgrade to Ubuntu 9.04 Beta yet."

https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/304871

Cheers,
Al.

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Strange kind of spam related to this list

[Vincenzo Ciancia]

I am receiving more and more "blub" messages from
www-d...@enforcer.homedns.org, in response to messages that I posted on
this list. I attach an example, if someone has information about it just
let me know.

Thanks

Vincenzo

--- Begin Message ---
blub
--- End Message ---
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Re: The new logout design can cause unwanted reboots

[Vincenzo Ciancia]

Il giorno mer, 01/04/2009 alle 11.30 +0100, Mat Tomaszewski ha scritto:
> 
> This is a very valid point. We are currently investigating possible 
> alternative solutions and we're hoping to introduce a much better 
> experience as soon as possible (sorry no commitments as yet!)
> 
> Thanks for raising this.

Thank you for your prompt reply! In the meantime, is there a way (e.g.
via gconf) to disable the timeout or extend it?

Vincenzo



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Re: Strange kind of spam related to this list

[Oli Warner]

I don't want to pollute the SNR but I've had two of these too.

2009/4/1 Vincenzo Ciancia 

> I am receiving more and more "blub" messages from
> www-d...@enforcer.homedns.org, in response to messages that I posted on
> this list. I attach an example, if someone has information about it just
> let me know.
>
> Thanks
>
> Vincenzo
>
>
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: www-d...@enforcer.homedns.org
> To: Vincenzo Ciancia
> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 11:56:04 +0200 (CEST)
> Subject: RE: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon
> would provide useful status information]
> blub
>
> --
> Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
> Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
>
>
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Re: Strange kind of spam related to this list

[Scott Kitterman]

On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 13:32:09 +0100 Oli Warner  wrote:
>I don't want to pollute the SNR but I've had two of these too.
>
>2009/4/1 Vincenzo Ciancia 
>
>> I am receiving more and more "blub" messages from
>> www-d...@enforcer.homedns.org, in response to messages that I posted on
>> this list. I attach an example, if someone has information about it just
>> let me know.
>>

These aren't actually sent via the list, but come directly from some 
external smtp server.  There isn't (I don't think) much to be done except 
treat them as you normally do spam.

Scott K

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Re: Strange kind of spam related to this list

[tacone]

>>> I am receiving more and more "blub" messages from
>>> www-d...@enforcer.homedns.org, in response to messages that I posted on
>>> this list. I attach an example, if someone has information about it just
>>> let me know.
>>>
>
> These aren't actually sent via the list, but come directly from some
> external smtp server.  There isn't (I don't think) much to be done except
> treat them as you normally do spam.

homedns.org is part of the free (and paid) dynamic dns provider
dyndns.com. Services like that terminate accounts very easily when
they get a sufficent number spam report. Of course this doesn't
prevent the spammer from spamming using other means, but can at least
disturb him.
Forward your complains here. Be sure to include URLs or proofs of the abuses.
ab...@dyndns.com

Stefano

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Re: Looking at Package Management for Karmic or Karmic+1

[Matthew Paul Thomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Evan

Evan wrote on 31/03/09 23:19:
> 
> While apt, synaptic, update-manager, and gnome-app-install all do
> decent jobs of providing front-ends for package management, there are
> a few issues and common feature requests which bear taking a look at.
> This is a strawman, so feel free to rip it apart as necessary.

In Canonical's Design and User Experience team we've just (this morning)
started tackling the issue of package management in general, so your
message is excellently timed.

> Modal Dialogues
> All three of the GUIs currently use modal dialogues for the actual
> download/install process, and this is considered a usability issue
> AFAIK (I'm not a usability expert by any stretch of the imagination,
> please correct me if I'm wrong).

You are quite correct: wherever a program has a modal progress window,
it should be showing progress in the parent window instead. (See
Thunderbird's "Sending Messages" and "Saving Messages" progress windows
for more examples of how not to do it.)

>  I believe most people would like to
> be able to continue browsing available applications, or reading
> changelogs of updates while the packages are downloading and
> installing.

Well, "most people" is debatable, but that's not a reason to make it
impossible. It will just be a little tricky to implement.

> PolicyKit
> Synaptic runs fully as root. Unless there is a specific reason not to,
> should it not be migrated to PolicyKit?
> 
> Queuing
> The ability to start an install process, and then decide to queue
> another app to install / update after the first is finished.
> 
> Parallelism
> Starting the install process in parallel with the download process as
> soon as the first packages are finished downloading. (I got this idea
> from brainstorm, but I can no longer find the relevant idea.)

All good ideas. I've added them to
.

> I'm not sure what we ought to be changing or replacing, but I would
> think we want to write a replacement for apt as the backend, and a
> replacement for whatever provides the progress-bar in the GUI?

We'd need to get into a lot more design detail before deciding anything
as fundamental as whether apt needs replacing.

>...
> The front end would display two progress bars, one for download and one
> for installation.

Hopefully that isn't necessary. I shouldn't see two progress bars for
something that, from my point of view, is a single task.

>   It would also display a queue of what's to come
> (perhaps with little Xs to cancel something if you change your mind).
> It would be a seperate window in it's own right,

It wouldn't be necessary to put the queue in a separate window. It could
be a viewable item in the main window, as it is in Miro for example.

>  perhaps with the
> ability to minize to tray.
>...

Unlikely. :-)

Thanks for your ideas. We'll be discussing this more in the coming
weeks, so feel free to post more either here or on the wiki page.

Cheers
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Re: Looking at Package Management for Karmic or Karmic+1

[Mackenzie Morgan]

On Wednesday 01 April 2009 6:02:38 am John Vivirito wrote:
> On 03/31/2009 06:19 PM, Evan wrote:
> > While apt, synaptic, update-manager, and gnome-app-install all do decent
> > jobs of providing front-ends for package management, there are a few 
issues
> > and common feature requests which bear taking a look at. This is a 
strawman,
> > so feel free to rip it apart as necessary.
> > 
> > PolicyKit
> > Synaptic runs fully as root. Unless there is a specific reason not to,
> > should it not be migrated to PolicyKit?
> >
> 
> The reason they start up as root is because other than browsing the
> packages is to install/remove and change repo settings. Most people that
> browse packages will install at least one. I guess i don't get the idea.

Until I learned about dpkg -l and apt-cache version, I looked in Synaptic to 
find out version numbers.  Until I learned about apt-cache search, I used 
Synaptic to find out package names to tell people to install.  I'd say browsing 
the packages to avoid those commands or due to ignorance of those commands is 
a normal thing for anyone that doesn't sit around reading dpkg and apt-cache's 
manpages for fun.

> > Modal Dialogues
> > All three of the GUIs currently use modal dialogues for the actual
> > download/install process, and this is considered a usability issue AFAIK
> > (I'm not a usability expert by any stretch of the imagination, please
> > correct me if I'm wrong). I believe most people would like to be able to
> > continue browsing available applications, or reading changelogs of updates
> > while the packages are downloading and installing.
> 
> What do you mean as a usability feature more so than "issue"

You can't run two apt-get commands at the same time, but you can certainly do 
apt-cache commands while an apt-get is running.  This'd be the equivalent.

> > Queuing
> > The ability to start an install process, and then decide to queue another
> > app to install / update after the first is finished.
> > 
> > Parallelism
> > Starting the install process in parallel with the download process as soon
> > as the first packages are finished downloading. (I got this idea from
> > brainstorm, but I can no longer find the relevant idea.)
> 
> By this you mean being able to browse packages while upgrade/install
> packages? Than start download of the packages you choose to upgrade/install?
> I dont remember off hand why we only let one apt/dpkg run at one time
> but it has been that way a long time IIRC.
> IMHO this idea can cause problems, example: It can cause corrupt
> files/links. Now I'm not sure how true this is If this is wrong please
> feel free to comment.

As above...two apt-get's can't run simultaneously, but "apt-get install foo ; 
apt-get install bar" is certainly valid.

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Re: The new logout design can cause unwanted reboots

[Mackenzie Morgan]

On Wednesday 01 April 2009 6:22:22 am Vincenzo Ciancia wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I recall that ctrl+alt+backspace was disabled because it can be hit
> accidentally. A similar thing happened to me; I experienced an unwanted
> reboot and it's not so pleasant, even if I didn't loose any work.
> 
> I hit ctrl+alt+canc by "mistake" that is, trying to do something else; I
> likely had some full screen window, hence the popup must have finished
> below other windows. I have a decent monitor now (19'') and I didn't
> actually see the flashing down in the bar (it's really too few
> contrasted for LCD monitors, I am looking at it now). Then after the
> timeout it turned off my system. 

What about still having it come on top, but do the countdown to enable the "OK 
go ahead" button like Firefox does with installing add-ons?  That'd also 
prevent accidentally clicking it.

Also, just wondering...I've never seen a cancel button on a keyboard...what 
locale has that?

> With the extremely high focus on usability that ubuntu has, it is
> impossible that we don't have a better solution: I see the need for a
> confirmation pop-up, I see the need to have it unfocused to avoid
> hitting it by mistake, I don't quite see the need for a timeout (I hate
> it) but I assume that it had some planning and there are reasons for
> that, 

Probably so that when people hit "shut down" and expect it to do what they say 
not bother them with extra dialogs and things (some people have that 
expectation, I'm one) and just shove the laptop into their bag as is it 
doesn't keep running and 1) overheat 2) kill the battery.

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Re: Strange kind of spam related to this list

[Mackenzie Morgan]

On Wednesday 01 April 2009 7:59:55 am Vincenzo Ciancia wrote:
> I am receiving more and more "blub" messages from
> www-d...@enforcer.homedns.org, in response to messages that I posted on
> this list. I attach an example, if someone has information about it just
> let me know.

Are they coming as plain text or HTML email?  If HTML email, maybe they have 
invisible GIFs embedded to see if you open spam?

I haven't received any of these, but then the only mails which are guaranteed 
to not go to my spam folder are ones with mailing list headers.  Which means 
if people "reply all" and I'm the To with the list as the CC, it still might 
go to spam.  And that's why we have Reply to List (yes, I know, Google's 
stupid and doesn't offer it, part of why I use KMail).

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Re: The new logout design can cause unwanted reboots

[Nicolò Chieffo]

> Also, just wondering...I've never seen a cancel button on a keyboard...what
> locale has that?

Italian has "Canc", but it's the translation of "Del"

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Re: Strange kind of spam related to this list

[Mackenzie Morgan]

On Wednesday 01 April 2009 7:59:55 am Vincenzo Ciancia wrote:
> I am receiving more and more "blub" messages from
> www-d...@enforcer.homedns.org, in response to messages that I posted on
> this list. I attach an example, if someone has information about it just
> let me know.

I lied. Just *after* you sent that, I got about 15.

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Re: The new logout design can cause unwanted reboots

[Matthew Paul Thomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Vincenzo Ciancia wrote on 01/04/09 11:22:
>...
> I hit ctrl+alt+canc by "mistake" that is, trying to do something else; I
> likely had some full screen window, hence the popup must have finished
> below other windows. I have a decent monitor now (19'') and I didn't
> actually see the flashing down in the bar (it's really too few
> contrasted for LCD monitors, I am looking at it now). Then after the
> timeout it turned off my system. 
>...

The logout alert box is supposed to float on top of other windows. If it
doesn't, please report a bug.

Thanks
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Re: Looking at Package Management for Karmic or Karmic+1

[George Farris]

On Tue, 2009-03-31 at 22:02 -0300, Felipe Figueiredo wrote:
> Evan escreveu:
> > While apt, synaptic, update-manager, and gnome-app-install all do
> > decent jobs of providing front-ends for package management, there are
> > a few issues and common feature requests which bear taking a look at.
> > This is a strawman, so feel free to rip it apart as necessary.
> 
> I miss the ability to check out changelogs from installed packages in
> synaptic. It would be useful to see it while offline, or for packages
> not in ubuntu (e.g., packages from medibuntu). The way it works now,
> it's mainly intended to check for what's changed before the user
> upgrades the package, since you have to download it each time, even if
> there's no newer pacakge.
> 

While we are at it, it would be nice to have an owner and permissions
database so one could reset to package install conditions or use it to
do integrity checks.

Cheers



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Re: The new logout design can cause unwanted reboots

[Vincenzo Ciancia]

Il giorno mer, 01/04/2009 alle 16.05 +0100, Matthew Paul Thomas ha
scritto:
> >...
> > I hit ctrl+alt+canc by "mistake" that is, trying to do something
> else; I
> > likely had some full screen window, hence the popup must have
> finished
> > below other windows. I have a decent monitor now (19'') and I didn't
> > actually see the flashing down in the bar (it's really too few
> > contrasted for LCD monitors, I am looking at it now). Then after the
> > timeout it turned off my system. 
> >...
> 
> The logout alert box is supposed to float on top of other windows. If
> it
> doesn't, please report a bug.
> 

Are you sure? On #ubuntu+1 they even told me that it's on purpose to
avoid accidentally hitting the wrong option.

Vincenzo



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Re: jaunty DVD

[(``-_-´´) -- BUGabundo]

Olá bown e a todos.

On Wednesday 01 April 2009 12:45:21 richard.b...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
> Is this a known bug or do I file a new bug report ?

https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/317457

Just add to xorg :
   Option "DRI" "false"

No 3D but at least it works.

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Re: The new logout design can cause unwanted reboots

[Matthew Paul Thomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Vincenzo Ciancia wrote on 01/04/09 17:04:
> 
> Il giorno mer, 01/04/2009 alle 16.05 +0100, Matthew Paul Thomas ha
> scritto:
>...
>> The logout alert box is supposed to float on top of other windows. If
>> it doesn't, please report a bug.
> 
> Are you sure?

Yes, I was in the room when it was designed.

>On #ubuntu+1 they even told me that it's on purpose to
> avoid accidentally hitting the wrong option.
>...

The alert box is already a confirmation step for something else you've
done (chosen "Log Out" from the menu, or entered its keyboard
equivalent). A third step is not necessary.

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Re: The new logout design can cause unwanted reboots

[Ted Gould]

On Wed, 2009-04-01 at 17:28 +0100, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
> Vincenzo Ciancia wrote on 01/04/09 17:04:
> > Il giorno mer, 01/04/2009 alle 16.05 +0100, Matthew Paul Thomas ha
> > scritto:
> >...
> >> The logout alert box is supposed to float on top of other windows. If
> >> it doesn't, please report a bug.
> > 
> > Are you sure?
> 
> Yes, I was in the room when it was designed.

I believe that he's talking about the gnome-session dialog not the FUSA
one.  While you could have been in the room for that one as well, I
don't believe that's the case, unless you were asleep :)

--Ted



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Re: The new logout design can cause unwanted reboots

[Vincenzo Ciancia]

Il giorno mer, 01/04/2009 alle 17.28 +0100, Matthew Paul Thomas ha
scritto:
> 
> The alert box is already a confirmation step for something else you've
> done (chosen "Log Out" from the menu, or entered its keyboard
> equivalent). A third step is not necessary.
> 

Moreover, I didn't ask for that :)

V.


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Re: Looking at Package Management for Karmic or Karmic+1

[Martin Olsson]

One gigantic improvement would be downloading package deltas
instead of whole .DEB files. I don't think this is necessarily that
hard to do in a reliable fashion. I assume you already thought
about that and it might be out of Ubuntu's scope (i.e. better
developed separately and then integrated into Ubuntu once it's
stable).

Another, much much simpler, feature request I have been thinking
about is to make installing updates faster by letting the download
and install parts run in parallel. With the current code I first
see my network capacity being maxed out with CPU and HDD activity
at nearly zero, then network activity stops and the machine starts
to tax the CPU and harddrive. Once a package plus it's dependencies
are downloaded, I don't see why that package cannot be allowed to
start it's installation / upgrade while the rest of the packages
are still being downloaded.


Martin


Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Hi Evan
> 
> Evan wrote on 31/03/09 23:19:
>> While apt, synaptic, update-manager, and gnome-app-install all do
>> decent jobs of providing front-ends for package management, there are
>> a few issues and common feature requests which bear taking a look at.
>> This is a strawman, so feel free to rip it apart as necessary.
> 
> In Canonical's Design and User Experience team we've just (this morning)
> started tackling the issue of package management in general, so your
> message is excellently timed.
> 
>> Modal Dialogues
>> All three of the GUIs currently use modal dialogues for the actual
>> download/install process, and this is considered a usability issue
>> AFAIK (I'm not a usability expert by any stretch of the imagination,
>> please correct me if I'm wrong).
> 
> You are quite correct: wherever a program has a modal progress window,
> it should be showing progress in the parent window instead. (See
> Thunderbird's "Sending Messages" and "Saving Messages" progress windows
> for more examples of how not to do it.)
> 
>>  I believe most people would like to
>> be able to continue browsing available applications, or reading
>> changelogs of updates while the packages are downloading and
>> installing.
> 
> Well, "most people" is debatable, but that's not a reason to make it
> impossible. It will just be a little tricky to implement.
> 
>> PolicyKit
>> Synaptic runs fully as root. Unless there is a specific reason not to,
>> should it not be migrated to PolicyKit?
>>
>> Queuing
>> The ability to start an install process, and then decide to queue
>> another app to install / update after the first is finished.
>>
>> Parallelism
>> Starting the install process in parallel with the download process as
>> soon as the first packages are finished downloading. (I got this idea
>> from brainstorm, but I can no longer find the relevant idea.)
> 
> All good ideas. I've added them to
> .
> 
>> I'm not sure what we ought to be changing or replacing, but I would
>> think we want to write a replacement for apt as the backend, and a
>> replacement for whatever provides the progress-bar in the GUI?
> 
> We'd need to get into a lot more design detail before deciding anything
> as fundamental as whether apt needs replacing.
> 
>> ...
>> The front end would display two progress bars, one for download and one
>> for installation.
> 
> Hopefully that isn't necessary. I shouldn't see two progress bars for
> something that, from my point of view, is a single task.
> 
>>   It would also display a queue of what's to come
>> (perhaps with little Xs to cancel something if you change your mind).
>> It would be a seperate window in it's own right,
> 
> It wouldn't be necessary to put the queue in a separate window. It could
> be a viewable item in the main window, as it is in Miro for example.
> 
>>  perhaps with the
>> ability to minize to tray.
>> ...
> 
> Unlikely. :-)
> 
> Thanks for your ideas. We'll be discussing this more in the coming
> weeks, so feel free to post more either here or on the wiki page.
> 
> Cheers
> - --
> Matthew Paul Thomas
> http://mpt.net.nz/
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Re: no I don't want to uninstall everything!

[Phlip]

> The following packages will be REMOVED:
> 
>abakus{u} aqbanking-tools{u} asymptote{u} asymptote-doc{u} barcode{u} 
> basket{u} context{u} creox{u} cscope{u} dblatex{u} dvipdfmx{u} dvipng{u} 
> exuberant-ctags{u} feynmf{u}

To anyone who finds this message in the archives:

I converted that ridiculous list of items to remove into a list of items to 
install (by taking out all the linefeeds and {u}s), and ran aptitude install on 
all of them simultaneously. The installer looks stable now...


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Re: no I don't want to uninstall everything!

[Mackenzie Morgan]

On Wednesday 01 April 2009 2:37:29 pm Phlip wrote:
> > The following packages will be REMOVED:
> > 
> >abakus{u} aqbanking-tools{u} asymptote{u} asymptote-doc{u} barcode{u} 
> > basket{u} context{u} creox{u} cscope{u} dblatex{u} dvipdfmx{u} dvipng{u} 
> > exuberant-ctags{u} feynmf{u}
> 
> To anyone who finds this message in the archives:
> 
> I converted that ridiculous list of items to remove into a list of items to 
> install (by taking out all the linefeeds and {u}s), and ran aptitude install 
on 
> all of them simultaneously. The installer looks stable now...

Maybe what you wanted to install wanted to remove a meta-package that pulled 
all of those in, and since it was a meta-package, they were all marked as 
"automatically installed" so by you doing that you changed them to manually 
installed (which dont get autoremoved).

-- 
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http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com
apt-get moo


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Re: Looking at Package Management for Karmic or Karmic+1

[Surfaz Gemon Meme]

Sorry but I do not understand you.

Why do you want to create new applications and not to improve and adopt
PackageKit?

I think it would be a good idea to start by replacing gnome-app for
Packagekit. Let me explain, using PackageKit as an "easy" tool to install
programs and Synpatic as the "advanced" tool of package management.
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suspend/hibernate/shutdown under multiseat?

[Matt Price]

hi,

I'm setting up a multiseat system (jaunty, 64-bit).  Pretty much
everything is working fine, except that I would like to enable either
user to initiate a hibernate or suspend command.  I know this is
counter-intuitive, but this is for a system in which it's convenient to
always have the 2 users logged in, but it's very unlikely they'll be
using the system at the same time.  By default, the shutdown and restart
options are not shown un the fast-user-switch-applet, and the suspend
and hibernate are disabled, when more than one gdm server is running.  I
ran dbus-watch and got this on activating a suspend command:
--
method call sender=:1.48 -> dest=org.freedesktop.DBus serial=18
path=/org/freedesktop/DBus; interface=org.freedesktop.DBus;
member=GetNameOwner
   string "org.freedesktop.PowerManagement"
method call sender=:1.48 -> dest=:1.34 serial=19
path=/org/freedesktop/PowerManagement;
interface=org.freedesktop.PowerManagement; member=Suspend
method call sender=:1.34 -> dest=:1.70 serial=27
path=/org/gnome/ScreenSaver; interface=org.gnome.ScreenSaver;
member=Lock
method call sender=:1.34 -> dest=:1.70 serial=28
path=/org/gnome/ScreenSaver; interface=org.gnome.ScreenSaver;
member=GetActive
signal sender=:1.70 -> dest=(null destination) serial=13
path=/org/gnome/ScreenSaver; interface=org.gnome.ScreenSaver;
member=SessionIdleChanged
   boolean true
signal sender=:1.70 -> dest=(null destination) serial=14
path=/org/gnome/ScreenSaver; interface=org.gnome.ScreenSaver;
member=ActiveChanged
   boolean true
method return sender=:1.70 -> dest=:1.34 reply_serial=28
   boolean true
signal sender=:1.2 -> dest=(null destination) serial=74
path=/org/gnome/SessionManager/Presence;
interface=org.gnome.SessionManager.Presence; member=StatusChanged

---
does any of this suggest a place where I might look to set up a system
in which multiple gdm servers do NOT inhibit powermanagement?  And is
there a blueprint somewhere that lays out the suspend/hibernate
architecture for jaunty?  I know it's been changing fast.  

Thanks much for your help,

Matt

ps if there's a better list to send this to, please let me know, and
sorry for the noise on this one. 


-- 
Matt Price
matt.pr...@utoronto.ca

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Re: Looking at Package Management for Karmic or Karmic+1

[Evan]

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:25 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hi Evan
>
> Evan wrote on 31/03/09 23:19:
> >
> > While apt, synaptic, update-manager, and gnome-app-install all do
> > decent jobs of providing front-ends for package management, there are
> > a few issues and common feature requests which bear taking a look at.
> > This is a strawman, so feel free to rip it apart as necessary.
>
> In Canonical's Design and User Experience team we've just (this morning)
> started tackling the issue of package management in general, so your
> message is excellently timed.
>

100% coincidence. Honest.


> > PolicyKit
> > Synaptic runs fully as root. Unless there is a specific reason not to,
> > should it not be migrated to PolicyKit?
> >
> > Queuing
> > The ability to start an install process, and then decide to queue
> > another app to install / update after the first is finished.
> >
> > Parallelism
> > Starting the install process in parallel with the download process as
> > soon as the first packages are finished downloading. (I got this idea
> > from brainstorm, but I can no longer find the relevant idea.)
>
> All good ideas. I've added them to
> .


Thank you. I didn't know it had a wiki blueprint already.

> I'm not sure what we ought to be changing or replacing, but I would
> > think we want to write a replacement for apt as the backend, and a
> > replacement for whatever provides the progress-bar in the GUI?
>
> We'd need to get into a lot more design detail before deciding anything
> as fundamental as whether apt needs replacing.
>

Agreed.

> The front end would display two progress bars, one for download and one
> > for installation.
>
> Hopefully that isn't necessary. I shouldn't see two progress bars for
> something that, from my point of view, is a single task.
>

I'm not so sure. If they are going to be happening in parallel, then they
will have different % complete values. You could combine them, but I think
that would jump around enough to be confusing.

As a note, I see two separate progress bars in Windows app installers all
the time. For all I know this could be their usability issue, and not
something to emulate, but I'm just saying that it is done.


> >   It would also display a queue of what's to come
> > (perhaps with little Xs to cancel something if you change your mind).
> > It would be a seperate window in it's own right,
>
> It wouldn't be necessary to put the queue in a separate window. It could
> be a viewable item in the main window, as it is in Miro for example.


I hadn't even considered this, but it does make sense, especially if (as the
blueprint suggests) there will be only one GUI for all four of the current
ones, and thus no separate command sources to consider. If this becomes the
case, I would ask for the ability to hide all but the install progress so
that it doesn't take up as much screen space.


On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Martin Olsson  wrote:

> One gigantic improvement would be downloading package deltas
> instead of whole .DEB files. I don't think this is necessarily that
> hard to do in a reliable fashion. I assume you already thought
> about that and it might be out of Ubuntu's scope (i.e. better
> developed separately and then integrated into Ubuntu once it's
> stable).
>

AFAIK this idea has been kicking around for years but nobody has ever really
gotten around to it. I agree that it is a bit out of scope (especially for
Karmic), but I would really like to see this implemented at some point. I
heard a rumour that upstream (debian) was looking at it, but nothing since.
Can anybody fill in a few more details here?

Another, much much simpler, feature request I have been thinking
> about is to make installing updates faster by letting the download
> and install parts run in parallel. With the current code I first
> see my network capacity being maxed out with CPU and HDD activity
> at nearly zero, then network activity stops and the machine starts
> to tax the CPU and harddrive. Once a package plus it's dependencies
> are downloaded, I don't see why that package cannot be allowed to
> start it's installation / upgrade while the rest of the packages
> are still being downloaded.
>

This is what I meant by "Paralellism" in my original post.

Evan
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Re : Looking at Package Management for Karmic or Karmic+1

[Paul Dufresne]

Someone said:
>One gigantic improvement would be downloading package deltas instead of >whole 
>.DEB files.
I care even more about doing that for apt-get update, than apt-get upgrade.
I am using a bit 56k, and I have seen in last few days that apt-get
update is part of cron.daily now.
I did not deactivated it yet, but I think to do it, because it is a
long process under 56k, and it make things go extremely slow while you
browse.
Better do that when you are away from keyboard.

But it should not be long to download the list of packages updated...
I think this is text files no?
Tools for text diff are there for so long.
You'd have to have many such diff files however...
diff for latest hour, latest 6 hours, latest day, latest 4 days... and
I would stop there.
(If it makes 1 week you did not update, better take the full files).

I can imagine that these diff for .deb could be a pression either on
hard disk space if you save them, either on CPU if you have to
calculate them before sending to the client.
But on the list of packages... for me it make a lot of sense.

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Re: Looking at Package Management for Karmic or Karmic+1

[Derek Broughton]

John Vivirito wrote:

> On 03/31/2009 06:19 PM, Evan wrote:
>> While apt, synaptic, update-manager, and gnome-app-install all do decent
>> jobs of providing front-ends for package management, there are a few
>> issues and common feature requests which bear taking a look at. This is a
>> strawman, so feel free to rip it apart as necessary.
>> 
>> PolicyKit
>> Synaptic runs fully as root. Unless there is a specific reason not to,
>> should it not be migrated to PolicyKit?
>>
> 
> The reason they start up as root is because other than browsing the
> packages is to install/remove and change repo settings. Most people that
> browse packages will install at least one. I guess i don't get the idea.

I guess I can't parse your first sentence.  One reason why I stopped ever
using synaptic is _because_ it runs full time as root, and locks the apt
database.  10 years ago Corel Linux had a version of kpackage that only did
what it had to as root, and kept the database locked as little as possible. 
I spend at least twice as much time using package managers to browse, than
to actually install.

>> Parallelism
>> Starting the install process in parallel with the download process as
>> soon as the first packages are finished downloading. (I got this idea
>> from brainstorm, but I can no longer find the relevant idea.)
> 
> By this you mean being able to browse packages while upgrade/install
> packages? Than start download of the packages you choose to
> upgrade/install? 

No, he means "install" some packages while others are still downloading.  I
can see that being very advantageous to a dial-up user, but I wonder if it
can even be possible.
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Re: Looking at Package Management for Karmic or Karmic+1

[Jan Claeys]

Op woensdag 01-04-2009 om 15:25 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Matthew
Paul Thomas:
> > The front end would display two progress bars, one for download and one
> > for installation.
> 
> Hopefully that isn't necessary. I shouldn't see two progress bars for
> something that, from my point of view, is a single task.

*If* installing runs in parallel with downloading, then there should be
an indication that downloading is ready, so that people who pay their
internet per time unit can drop the connection.

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Re: Looking at Package Management for Karmic or Karmic+1

[Mackenzie Morgan]

On Wednesday 01 April 2009 3:34:06 pm Derek Broughton wrote:
> John Vivirito wrote:
> 
> > On 03/31/2009 06:19 PM, Evan wrote:
> >> While apt, synaptic, update-manager, and gnome-app-install all do decent
> >> jobs of providing front-ends for package management, there are a few
> >> issues and common feature requests which bear taking a look at. This is a
> >> strawman, so feel free to rip it apart as necessary.
> >> 
> >> PolicyKit
> >> Synaptic runs fully as root. Unless there is a specific reason not to,
> >> should it not be migrated to PolicyKit?
> >>
> > 
> > The reason they start up as root is because other than browsing the
> > packages is to install/remove and change repo settings. Most people that
> > browse packages will install at least one. I guess i don't get the idea.
> 
> I guess I can't parse your first sentence.  One reason why I stopped ever
> using synaptic is _because_ it runs full time as root, and locks the apt
> database.  10 years ago Corel Linux had a version of kpackage that only did
> what it had to as root, and kept the database locked as little as possible. 
> I spend at least twice as much time using package managers to browse, than
> to actually install.

KPackageKit is like that.

> >> Parallelism
> >> Starting the install process in parallel with the download process as
> >> soon as the first packages are finished downloading. (I got this idea
> >> from brainstorm, but I can no longer find the relevant idea.)
> > 
> > By this you mean being able to browse packages while upgrade/install
> > packages? Than start download of the packages you choose to
> > upgrade/install? 
> 
> No, he means "install" some packages while others are still downloading.  I
> can see that being very advantageous to a dial-up user, but I wonder if it
> can even be possible.

If you download and install everything that has 0 dependencies first, then the 
ones that depend on those things, and on up the tree, it could be doable. 
Except for cyclical dependencies. For those, you'd need to get both downloaded 
before running dpkg on them.

-- 
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apt-get moo


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