Re: [Torios] The Technical Side of ToriOS
On 05/22/2014 03:43 PM, Israel wrote: On 05/22/2014 06:15 AM, Ali Linx wrote: Hola amigos, Hi Ali! Hi Israel and everyone, I'm seriously rusty ... I used to reply in 5mins ... now, I'm replying after 5 days :( I feel SO BAD because of that ... I don't know what is wrong with me :/ Hope everyone is fine and not sick like the poor me (nasty flu), Before I start taking any decision or creating any new blueprint, I'd like (as I always used to do with all my projects) to think loudly with my family (you) so let's see how this will develop :) ATTENTION: These are just ideas ... NOTHING yet confirmed :) 1- ToriOS is supporting Non-PAE machines by default - we have already agreed on that - just a reminder. 2- ToriOS is always an LTS - we too agreed on that as well - just a reminder. 3- ToriOS will be released every 12 months NOT every 6 months like Ubuntu - new idea. 4- ToriOS 1.0 is based on 12.04 LTS - we have discussed that before but didn't yet 100% agree on. Why use 12.04? 14.04 is out now, so it seems better to use it to me... is there a reason to use 12.04? Yes. 14.04 has been released but that is not the issue here. The real issue is: I doubt that 14.04 will be a good support for really old machines. Logically, 12.04 should be a good choice for very old machines. That is the one and only reason. Don't forget we're talking about ToriOS version 1.0 here. Version 2.0 will be based on 14.04 :) 5- ToriOS 2.0 will be based on 14.04 LTS 6- nm-manager should not be used as far as I have read so far from different people all of them confirmed the big RAM eater is nm-manager. I agree wicd is much lighter Yes :) 7- While we're targeting low hardware machines (32-bit), shouldn't we also think of those who wish to try ToriOS on more powerful machine (64bit)? if that so, we need two builds: i386 and amd64. PowerPC should also be built IMO Are we able to cover that? I mean, do we have enough resources/manpower? do you think it is good idea? if truth to be told, I have never planned to cover that area at all. I have never thought about it. 8- I need the Wiki and Docs team to write each and every post, not only about the system, how to use it, system requirement, etc ... no ... I'm planning to document the steps that we have done to create this or will create this system and YES, I mean the technical side so I guess both the docs and devs guys need to work side by side if you agree on this. 9- 60MB or 50MB? don't want to kill ourselves but if we could do that, why not? I guess you know what I'm talking about :) 50 is going to be VERY hard to do... 60 is going to be stretching it too... We are going to need a window manager, and something to handle the desktop right? This will take some work to achieve 60MB This will remain the hardest and longest challenge. I don't want to kill our time to achieve that and at the same time, I don't want to give up so easily. There should be away to do that. 10- Have we thought about the ISO size? any idea how big will it be? around 300MB? 400MB? less or more? AFAIK, it should never reach say 600MB, right? As long as it fits on a CD smaller is better for people who have to download it on slow internet Indeed. I want to help those with limited bandwidth or slow Internet. ToriOS is definitely not built for rich people :D :P rich people can buy from Apple, they won't look at GNU/Linux :P 11- Where are we going to host the ISOs? do we have a host for that? torios.org for now we can put some images on some of the cloud storage services too, and have links to them Can William do that? did he mention before that he can't? or that was someone else from another project who told me that? dammit, am I getting old? or it is the so many projects? haha If we can do that, then definitely YES. But when it comes to the Alpha and Beta ISOs, will that also be on ToriOS.org? I guess so ... 12- As long as ToriOS is based on Ubuntu, we can test it on Virtual Machine such as OracleVB, correct? It should work just fine I hope :) We need an ISO to test to make sure it will work :D 13- By any chance, do we need to talk with Ubuntu/Canonical team about our Project? I mean is there any kind of approval or stuff like that we need? I'm talking about the technical side of our project as they should have nothing to do with the other stuff but maybe they do with the technical side, that is why I'm asking and we need to know IMHO. 14- Alpha 1, Alpha 2, Beta 1, Beta 2 and RC? or no need for that? should we just do Alpha, Beta and RC? these are milestones just like what Ubuntu GNOME or Lubuntu are doing when it comes to the development cycle. I think it is a preference thing. At this point, Alpha Beta RC is more realistic, but if the devs want to do more releases, they can chime in and say so. Yes, I agree. It is up to the developer(s) to decide but for me, I'm 100% file with 3 milestones. 15- I know it is hard to tell at this point
Re: [Torios] ToriOS and OBI
On 05/22/2014 04:48 PM, Nio Wiklund wrote: 2014-02-13 07:16, Nio Wiklund skrev: 2014-02-12 21:33, Ali Linx skrev: On 02/09/2014 12:26 AM, Nio Wiklund wrote: 2014-02-08 19:16, Ali Linx skrev: Hi Nio, Hope this email will find you well :) I guess you're very busy these days that you didn't yet put your hands with ToriOS ;) I'd like to ask you since you're the founder of OBI :) https://blueprints.launchpad.net/torios/+spec/default-installer Is it correct that OBI is not useful with ISO files? Obviously, we are going to have an ISO file and on the above Blueprint, we need to find out what 'Installer' are we going to use and as I promised ages ago that I will try OBI and haven't yet (you know I have no time), to keep my promise, I had a thought to make OBI the default installer for ToriOS but as per the whiteboard, it might not be possible. We need you to enlighten us :) Thank you! Hi Ali and all [other] fellow torios, Hello Nio, I am totally lost between Thunderbird with 5 Emails accounts and between Gmail and 100 or more emails daily and between Firefox and Chromium and billions of open tabs O_o I guess I need a machine for each project :( Anyway, sorry for the late reply :) The OBI itself is a package of shell scripts and the 'dialog' software package. Now it is run in 'an installed system' which is portable, and is normally installed in USB pendrives. It needs writeable media and file-systems, so it cannot run in the standard live ISO way from CD/DVD. The ISO 9660 file system is read-only. I have been talking to Jörn about installing the OBI into a system that can be converted to an ISO file for a 'normal' live system. Such a system would satisfy your requirements, but we are not there yet. So if you have to decide the installer for Tori now or soon, the answer is *no* the OBI is not a candidate to install it. Ok, thanks for your reply. As of this very moment, OBI is 'NO' use for ToriOS :) Keep us updated please in case this will change in the near future ;) Best regards Nio Thank you :) P.S. @Israel @Paul and @Smile4ever We need to make sure this will reflect on our Wiki and Website so that we won't confuse ourselves nor anyone who will view our sites and I shall update the thread on Ubuntu Forums :) http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2200017 As long as the installer of Tori must be an ISO file, the answer is no, because the OBI does not come with an ISO file. Best regards Nio Hi again, Hello Nio, It is ready now :-) OBI-9w is a version of the One Button Installer, that can install from CD, DVD and USB drives. See this link https://help.ubuntu.com/community/9w#Ubuntu_14.04_LTS_text_non-pae_.27Trusty-npae124-text.iso.27_and_.27obi_Trusty-npae124-text-9w.iso.27 at the 9w wiki page https://help.ubuntu.com/community/9w In short, are you saying that ToriOS now can use your installer? :D really? :D Best regards Nio -- Ali/amjjawad https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~torios Post to : torios@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~torios More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Torios] The Technical Side of ToriOS
On 05/22/2014 06:24 PM, Hylas De niall wrote: Hello Hylas, Count me in for graphics work if you need things like wallpapers etc. As i mentioned i'm not a coder or translator sadly. As to the points raised above, i would say this (my preference) If you're really interested with Artwork Stuff, then maybe it is a good idea to talk with Rafael Laguna. He is Lubuntu Artwork Team Leader and very good friend of myself and many other people here. He has done the Logo of ToriOS and I'm sure he will help with the rest of the stuff we need. So, I think he will be happy if he will team up with you :) Base it on 14.04 - most folk, even on old machines would want the latest and greatest Not really :) These two is super hard to achieve. Old machine and have the latest? it's just an overkill. Yes, Lubuntu 14.04 is using the latest but Lubuntu is not for 'very' old machines. I have tested that so many times ... you need minimum 512MB if you wish to open YouTube, Facebook or Gmail. Your machine will have hard time with two open tabs. I've been 2 years testers for Lubuntu and I proved that many times :D it is not the system that has the problem, it is everything around us these days is resource hungry. They simply expect you to have the latest hardware ... they don't think about those poor guys with old machines. I came up with the idea of ToriOS because I'm very interested to draw a smile on someone's face who has an old machine but about to trash it because there is no system that could make it useful again. Yes, let's be realistic here. The real difference between ToriOS and Lubuntu is not that ToriOS will be a superman compared to Lubuntu. The real difference is ... while Lubuntu is eating around 100MB more or less from the RAM, we promise that ToriOS will eat much less. With this, the system will have more RAM for more running tasks. Here is the real difference between ToriOS and Lubuntu. The other difference is ToriOS will always be LTS and should support Non-PAE CPUs. One more difference. ToriOS will only have very few installed packages. It is for those who wish to build their own system as they like and for those with very old machines who only wants to do very few tasks. YES to the 12 month release cycle. Good, 3 votes so far ;) Folk coming from XP would be shocked at the amt of reinstalls/system updates on Linux. Somehow true considering the 6 months cycle but upgrading/updating GNU/Linux is so much different from updating/upgrading Microsoft Windows ;) Suggest try as hard as possible to keep the iso 'CD-sized' for old machines. Yes, 3 votes here too :D Is Sourceforge still a good site to host it? I nderstand they're fine unless your file is 1gig and over. Not sure. Never used it to host any ISO before. I'd suggest just Alpha, Beta, RC and Release versioning. Good :) As I wrote on the previous email, I'm okay with that unless our developer(s) has/have different opinion! I have been thinking about ToriOS identity (and snagged the 1920x1920 png final logo) and would like to suggest the use of the Japanese White-Eye songbird as a possible base for wallpaper designs (or even logo if the team decide to change the existing one). It is too early to talk about the default wallpaper but if I have to state my opinion, I'd say the Logo of ToriOS in the middle and that is all. But we can include other Wallpapers for sure. Also a couple of questions from me: 1) Is it still decided to use IceWM (if so i could look into how to theme it). Nothing yet confirmed. 2) Are the colours used in the final logo final colours that i should use in any designs i do? Are we talking about this? http://torios.org/img/FinalLogo.svg If yes, then these are the final and the official logo of ToriOS. 3) What is the typeface used in the logo? Typeface? you mean the font name? Cheers! Thank you! On Thursday, 22 May 2014, 12:48, Ali Linx wrote: Hola amigos, Hope everyone is fine and not sick like the poor me (nasty flu), Before I start taking any decision or creating any new blueprint, I'd like (as I always used to do with all my projects) to think loudly with my family (you) so let's see how this will develop :) ATTENTION: These are just ideas ... NOTHING yet confirmed :) 1- ToriOS is supporting Non-PAE machines by default - we have already agreed on that - just a reminder. 2- ToriOS is always an LTS - we too agreed on that as well - just a reminder. 3- ToriOS will be released every 12 months NOT every 6 months like Ubuntu - new idea. 4- ToriOS 1.0 is based on 12.04 LTS - we have discussed that before but didn't yet 100% agree on. 5- ToriOS 2.0 will be based on 14.04 LTS 6- nm-manager should not be used as far as I have read so far from different people all of them confirmed the big RAM eater is nm-manager. 7- While we're targeting low hardware machines (32-bit), shouldn't we also think of those who wish to try ToriOS on more powerful mac
Re: [Torios] ToriOS and OBI
2014-05-27 12:14, Ali Linx skrev: > > On 05/22/2014 04:48 PM, Nio Wiklund wrote: >> 2014-02-13 07:16, Nio Wiklund skrev: >>> 2014-02-12 21:33, Ali Linx skrev: On 02/09/2014 12:26 AM, Nio Wiklund wrote: > 2014-02-08 19:16, Ali Linx skrev: >> Hi Nio, >> >> Hope this email will find you well :) >> >> I guess you're very busy these days that you didn't yet put your >> hands >> with ToriOS ;) >> >> I'd like to ask you since you're the founder of OBI :) >> >> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/torios/+spec/default-installer >> >> Is it correct that OBI is not useful with ISO files? >> Obviously, we are going to have an ISO file and on the above >> Blueprint, >> we need to find out what 'Installer' are we going to use and as I >> promised ages ago that I will try OBI and haven't yet (you know I >> have >> no time), to keep my promise, I had a thought to make OBI the default >> installer for ToriOS but as per the whiteboard, it might not be >> possible. >> >> We need you to enlighten us :) >> >> Thank you! >> > Hi Ali and all [other] fellow torios, Hello Nio, I am totally lost between Thunderbird with 5 Emails accounts and between Gmail and 100 or more emails daily and between Firefox and Chromium and billions of open tabs O_o I guess I need a machine for each project :( Anyway, sorry for the late reply :) > The OBI itself is a package of shell scripts and the 'dialog' software > package. Now it is run in 'an installed system' which is portable, and > is normally installed in USB pendrives. It needs writeable media and > file-systems, so it cannot run in the standard live ISO way from > CD/DVD. > The ISO 9660 file system is read-only. > > I have been talking to Jörn about installing the OBI into a system > that > can be converted to an ISO file for a 'normal' live system. Such a > system would satisfy your requirements, but we are not there yet. > So if > you have to decide the installer for Tori now or soon, > the answer is > *no* the OBI is not a candidate to install it. Ok, thanks for your reply. As of this very moment, OBI is 'NO' use for ToriOS :) Keep us updated please in case this will change in the near future ;) > Best regards > Nio Thank you :) P.S. @Israel @Paul and @Smile4ever We need to make sure this will reflect on our Wiki and Website so that we won't confuse ourselves nor anyone who will view our sites and I shall update the thread on Ubuntu Forums :) http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2200017 >>> As long as the installer of Tori must be an ISO file, the answer is no, >>> because the OBI does not come with an ISO file. >>> >>> Best regards >>> Nio >>> >> Hi again, > > Hello Nio, > >> >> It is ready now :-) >> >> OBI-9w is a version of the One Button Installer, that can install from >> CD, DVD and USB drives. See this link >> >> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/9w#Ubuntu_14.04_LTS_text_non-pae_.27Trusty-npae124-text.iso.27_and_.27obi_Trusty-npae124-text-9w.iso.27 >> >> >> at the 9w wiki page >> >> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/9w > > In short, are you saying that ToriOS now can use your installer? :D > really? :D > >> Best regards >> Nio > Yes, an OBI-9w iso will definitely work from DVD and USB. It depends on the size of the image, if there will be space enough in a CD disk. If it is close to the limit, it is possible to skip some software, and maybe have a convenient way (a menu or desktop file) to easily install it, like it is also possible to let the end user install restricted software for hardware and for multimedia after the system is installed. You can try in a virtual machine what is already uploaded at Phill's server. -o- I can start when I get an iso or if it does not exist yet, some simple image of the installed test version of ToriOS. Reading that the iso file is or will be around 500 MB is very promising. I think I can make an OBI-9w installer within CD size. And I know that it will need less RAM to install compared to the conventional installers. Best regards Nio -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~torios Post to : torios@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~torios More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Torios] The Technical Side of ToriOS
On 05/22/2014 08:56 PM, Nio Wiklund wrote: Hi everybody, Hello Nio :) See the comments inline Best regards Nio 2014-05-22 16:24, Hylas De niall skrev: Count me in for graphics work if you need things like wallpapers etc. :-) As i mentioned i'm not a coder or translator sadly. As to the points raised above, i would say this (my preference) Base it on 14.04 - most folk, even on old machines would want the latest and greatest -1 I think there are reasons to start with 12.04 LTS. There are old computers, that work better with the older drivers. I'm so happy that we're (me and you) thinking the exact same way :D hehe YES to the 12 month release cycle. Folk coming from XP would be shocked at the amt of reinstalls/system updates on Linux. +1 4 (+1) so far :D Suggest try as hard as possible to keep the iso 'CD-sized' for old machines. +1 Good :D Is Sourceforge still a good site to host it? I nderstand they're fine unless your file is 1gig and over. I'd suggest just Alpha, Beta, RC and Release versioning. +1 Thank you :) I have been thinking about ToriOS identity (and snagged the 1920x1920 png final logo) and would like to suggest the use of the Japanese White-Eye songbird as a possible base for wallpaper designs (or even logo if the team decide to change the existing one). Also a couple of questions from me: 1) Is it still decided to use IceWM (if so i could look into how to theme it). 2) Are the colours used in the final logo final colours that i should use in any designs i do? 3) What is the typeface used in the logo? Cheers! On Thursday, 22 May 2014, 12:48, Ali Linx wrote: Hola amigos, Hope everyone is fine and not sick like the poor me (nasty flu), Before I start taking any decision or creating any new blueprint, I'd like (as I always used to do with all my projects) to think loudly with my family (you) so let's see how this will develop :) ATTENTION: These are just ideas ... NOTHING yet confirmed :) 1- ToriOS is supporting Non-PAE machines by default - we have already agreed on that - just a reminder. OK 2- ToriOS is always an LTS - we too agreed on that as well - just a reminder. OK 3- ToriOS will be released every 12 months NOT every 6 months like Ubuntu - new idea. +1 4- ToriOS 1.0 is based on 12.04 LTS - we have discussed that before but didn't yet 100% agree on. +1 5- ToriOS 2.0 will be based on 14.04 LTS +1 (assuming continued support of ToriOS 1.0) As long as 12.04 will be supported, then same goes for ToriOS 1.0 :) 6- nm-manager should not be used as far as I have read so far from different people all of them confirmed the big RAM eater is nm-manager. +1 Glad you too agree :) What about the user interface? Ah, yes, that one ... hahah Hmm, nothing yet confirmed until we see how it works on the pre-alpha ISO ... 7- While we're targeting low hardware machines (32-bit), shouldn't we also think of those who wish to try ToriOS on more powerful machine (64bit)? if that so, we need two builds: i386 and amd64. I don't know how much extra work it will be to add an amd64 version I don't know that either ... 8- I need the Wiki and Docs team to write each and every post, not only about the system, how to use it, system requirement, etc ... no ... I'm planning to document the steps that we have done to create this or will create this system and YES, I mean the technical side so I guess both the docs and devs guys need to work side by side if you agree on this. No other comment than 'documentation is important' +1 9- 60MB or 50MB? don't want to kill ourselves but if we could do that, why not? I guess you know what I'm talking about :) I think everything below 80 MB (I suppose an idling installed system) is OK (and it will be harder with 14.04 LTS, because the kernel is bigger than that of 12.04 LTS. That is why I want to go with 12.04 instead of 14.04 for ToriOS 1.0 :) As for the used RAM while the system is idle; IMHO, 80MB is too much ... I'm still looking at 50MB-60MB as I replied on my previous email ... 10- Have we thought about the ISO size? any idea how big will it be? around 300MB? 400MB? less or more? AFAIK, it should never reach say 600MB, right? A small size is good. It would be good to keep it maximum 450 MB (10 based) as a tarball. It would be lovely and super great to keep it below 400MB. Sigh, I wish we could do it as SliTaz but I guess it is impossible with Ubuntu based systems. 1. It will fit into the current OBI-9w installer. I could strip down the 9w packages if necessary to keep the OBI-9w installer within CD size. How much the installer usually takes? 2. You might consider meta-packages for different user profiles, and offer installing one of them after installation. It should make it easy to stay with a CD size iso file whichever installer is used. Could you please explain more or provide an example? I'm not sure I understood this one ... 3. Are you considering a text
Re: [Torios] The Technical Side of ToriOS
On 05/22/2014 09:39 PM, Jörn Schönyan wrote: Hello everyone, I have only some minutes and make it short. Hello, Jorn :) Am Donnerstag, 22. Mai 2014, 15:15:56 schrieb Ali Linx: Hola amigos, 3- ToriOS will be released every 12 months NOT every 6 months like Ubuntu - new idea. I think it shouldn't be a big problem to rebuild the iso every 6 months a.k.a. the point releases. But that is a minor issue. It is but we're all attached to other projects and real life and we have less time for ToriOS. It is going to be an overkill for me and a huge burden. Ubuntu GNOME is being released every 6 months. I honestly can't handle two projects to be released every 6 months unless we have totally different schedule. The nature of ToriOS is different. The idea is: Version 1.0 = 12.04 = 2014 Version 2.0 = 14.04 = 2015 and so on ... 4- ToriOS 1.0 is based on 12.04 LTS - we have discussed that before but didn't yet 100% agree on. 5- ToriOS 2.0 will be based on 14.04 LTS +14.04, we will have to package a lot of stuff soon enough. 12.04 we have to package a lot more. Sorry, what do you mean? didn't get it :( 6- nm-manager should not be used as far as I have read so far from different people all of them confirmed the big RAM eater is nm-manager. We can make autostart of NetworkManager optional, I think. Most machines we target shouldn't have Wifi, so everything is okay. You're mistaken ;) What happened to the Wifi USB Adapters? :D Also, see this: https://t.co/6HBs946VK1 Do you have anything against over network managers? 9- 60MB or 50MB? don't want to kill ourselves but if we could do that, why not? I guess you know what I'm talking about The result of my testing iso was 70-80 MB, but with a file manager (SpaceFM), nm-applet, xterm+htop. I'll try to replace SpaceFM with Rox, so we should be at least under 70 MB. We will see what happens then. And get rid of nm-applet, please :D Let's see how much difference we shall gain ... 10- Have we thought about the ISO size? any idea how big will it be? around 300MB? 400MB? less or more? AFAIK, it should never reach say 600MB, right? Again, my testing iso as reference: it was ~500MB big, something like 3,5 GB installed. But it was compressed with xz+bs=1M, that is a "slow" compression with good compression ratio. Maybe it should fall back to the "normal" compression, mainly because it's faster? But cd size would be the limit. Yes, the CD Size is the maximum limit, that is for sure. However, can we achieve something less? 300-500MB? 15- I know it is hard to tell at this point but any idea when ToriOS 1.0 will be available to download and use? I know I'm the one who should announce that but if truth to be told, it is something that our devs should advise for and we haven't yet done anything serious. Too big ambitions, but the first point release of 14.04 would be nice. 24th of July? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule Hmm, considering we have no real ISO to play with until now (27th of May), I don't think so. But I definitely want to release ToriOS this Summer or this year. I DO HOPE SO. We have waited a lot ... 16- Do we have a Github repo, so I can share the script that I used to create the testing iso? It's based on a script from the Ubuntu GNOME-team, so no big magic. But it's working fine. Alex has created one, as far as I can remember ... Thank you! Thank you, too! You welcome and thanks a lot for your reply :D -- Best Regards, http://irqlinux.blogspot.com -- Ali/amjjawad https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~torios Post to : torios@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~torios More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Torios] introduce myself
On 05/23/2014 03:24 PM, Bassem Ramez wrote: Hello my name is Bassem ramez Hello Bassem, Thank you so much for your email and so sorry for the late reply ... as I mentioned on my previous email, either I'm getting old to reply after many days (used to reply in few mins) or I'm getting so much busy with tons of projects and real life ... sorry again. i am interested to join your team and contribute and help with your project i have become interested in Gnu/Linux and free and open source software and the community and i found your project ToriOS to interesting project and i success for it to success and i hope i can do my best in helping you with your project - That is great :D Everyone is welcome to join :) See this please: http://torios.org/join.html Try to decide which area you see yourself in. How about - for example - Translations? beside English, what other Languages do you have in hand? There are many other areas aside from programming/developing if you're not a coder. So, feel free to choose your favorite area :) Thank you Thank you again and if you wish to join us and contribute for the long run, we can give you @torios.org account ;) So that, you be 100% official member :P -- Ali/amjjawad https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~torios Post to : torios@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~torios More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Torios] Introduction
On 05/26/2014 06:46 PM, Gustavo Silva wrote: Hi everyone. Hello Gustavo, First of all, I'd like to thank you a lot for answering my call of help on Google+ and for joining ToriOS. It is always great to have more volunteers from different part of the world. That is the most fun part of any FOSS project :) I was reading ToriOS launchpad page and I found out what I should do since I'm the youngest team member and it includes sending an email to this mailing list in order to introduce myself. I do like this kind of quality of people who do actually read instead of keep asking Qs and I'm getting very interested to work with you and so glad to have you within our team :D Well, I'm Gustavo, reaching you from Portugal and I'm a Ubuntu user. Welcome to our team and it is great to have someone from Portugal. This means almost most of us are close when it comes to time zone. I guess Israel and William are living on different time zones (- something GMT) but that is normal with any FOSS project. We surely don't have to live at the same house :P I joined ToriOS because I think Ali's plans are good and helpful for the development of Ubuntu's community. Appreciate that :) I believe there's too many Ubuntu distributions and perhaps this project can solve the problem by simple decreasing the number via mergers and gathering forces and other groups. Yes, that is my dream and plan. However, we must show ToriOS to the world and then start the merging phase :D Other then that, I'm not a developer. I'm a business person. Studied management in my BA and now I'm finishing a master's degree in Industrial and Firms Economics. That's important to tell what I can be useful: - Strategy (Marketing and Communications, Ops development and planning); - Translations (I used to translate for the Portuguese group a long time ago); - Documentation Very interesting :D I'm gsilva on freenode and I'm usually online 24/7 since I use a ZNC. Feel free to email me, contact me via G+, IRC or Launchpad to ask any questions. Here is a list of our official channels: http://torios.org/contact.html I'm not an IRC Type (I'm sure all my FOSS friends know this already) so don't hold your hopes high to see me on IRC unless there is something important or I have some free time which is impossible these days. Here is my contacts: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad#Contacts Hopefully I'll bring important thoughts and ideas for this project. I'm sure you will :) By the way, if you're planning to contribute to this project for the long run, then we could offer you - of course - free @torios.org email so that you be 100% official member :D let me know if you're interested ;) Best, Gustavo Thank you and welcome :) By the way, I have noticed that you joined Ubuntu GNOME too (another project that I'm leading - except I'm not the founder - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad/UbuntuGNOME-Team ). An advise from someone who have done A LOT to the FOSS world specially Ubuntu world. I don't want to kill your interest at all but don't overdo it or else, you will end up like me, a burned out man who seems to be enjoying that :P hehe. Okay, kidding aside, the reason why I became slow and less active on all my projects is because I'm trying to take care of myself more. I used to spend days online and I mean days. Ask about me :D but recently, my health is getting really down so I must slow down. Projects are my passion. If I find 30mins free time, I start new project. This is fun but not good for health. I don't want you to spread yourself wide across many projects. I'd suggest to check which project you feel more comfortable with and focus your activities within that one. Both ToriOS and Ubuntu and also StartUbuntu are projects where I take the lead but each has different vision and targets. You're the only one who can decide which one of these will suit you more :D Good luck with your study and it is great to have you here :D -- Ali/amjjawad https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~torios Post to : torios@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~torios More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Torios] The Technical Side of ToriOS
Hi Ali, See inline replies Best regards/Nio 2014-05-27 12:50, Ali Linx skrev: > > On 05/22/2014 08:56 PM, Nio Wiklund wrote: ... >> 1. It will fit into the current OBI-9w installer. I could strip down the >> 9w packages if necessary to keep the OBI-9w installer within CD size. > > How much the installer usually takes? Right now the OBI-9w 222 MB (10 base), 211 Mibibytes (2 base alias 1024 base). But it contains a lot of utilities and software, that are not necessary, for example a web browser and several small tools, that can be peeled off, if necessary to keep it within CD size with a fairly large tarball. Say that the tarball can be 500 MB. Then the total size will be 722 MB (10 base), 688 Mibibytes (2 base) According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-ROM a '700 MB CD disk' can store 737.280 MB (10 base), 703.125 Mibibytes (2 base). So without doing anything with the OBI-9w itself, the limit for the tarball is 515 MB (10 base), 491 Mibibytes (2 base). I don't know if some storage space is lost due to overhead data. The tarball can be a bit smaller than the corresponding iso file, depending on the amount of data, that are specific for the live session and on the compression method. >> 2. You might consider meta-packages for different user profiles, and >> offer installing one of them after installation. It should make it easy >> to stay with a CD size iso file whichever installer is used. > > Could you please explain more or provide an example? I'm not sure I > understood this one ... lubuntu-core and lubuntu-desktop are meta packages, that make it easy to install a group of packages with one command. It is possible to use meta-packages or just a command line or script file to install groups of packages for different user profiles, for example multimedia, office, gaming ultra-light, medium-light desktop, laptop, netbook ... The advantage is that the installer will be flexible, the disadvantage is that it will need internet and downloading to make each installation complete. >> 3. Are you considering a text installer (like the Lubuntu alternate >> installer) or a graphical installer (like the Ubuntu family desktop >> installer)? > > Very good Q ... > > I'd say YES for text-based but I'm worried about those who are not > familiar with it. YES, ToriOS is not for everyone and it is basically > not for those super new to GNU/Linux but as long as it is targeting the > low machines, I don't want to give hard time for any user. If we could > make a solid and strong documents/wiki to explain how to install ToriOS > with a text-base installer, then I have no worries in this regard. A text-based installer can be easy to understand. It depends more on the layout than on fancy graphical effects. > Technically, it would be super bad idea if a suer for example wishes to > dual-boot ToriOS with Windows XP or whatever. However, I dislike to > assume. I mean, we should be ready for any possible scenario if you know > what I mean. I guess we must be able to offer dual boot, and we are ... even if we think it is a bad idea with very old computers. > Can the text-based installer handle the dual-boot system the same easy > way the GUI installer does? Well, I think gparted is by far the most user friendly partitioning tool. And it needs a graphical desktop environment. And it is included in the 9w Debian+LXDE based desktop, that is idling at 37 MB RAM and can install without any problems in a computer with 128 MB RAM. > If we shall provide 64-bit, then definitely no need for text-based > installer here. No need, but might work as well. >>> 11- Where are we going to host the ISOs? do we have a host for that? >>> 12- As long as ToriOS is based on Ubuntu, we can test it on Virtual >>> Machine such as OracleVB, correct? >> VirtualBox and other VMs can run other linux distros too. > > Oh okay then :) > You and Israel seem sure about that. > > >>> 13- By any chance, do we need to talk with Ubuntu/Canonical team about >>> our Project? I mean is there any kind of approval or stuff like that we >>> need? I'm talking about the technical side of our project as they should >>> have nothing to do with the other stuff but maybe they do with the >>> technical side, that is why I'm asking and we need to know IMHO. >>> 14- Alpha 1, Alpha 2, Beta 1, Beta 2 and RC? or no need for that? should >>> we just do Alpha, Beta and RC? these are milestones just like what >>> Ubuntu GNOME or Lubuntu are doing when it comes to the development >>> cycle. >> Alpha, Beta, RC and Release versioning > > I see :) > Seems like everyone agress on that but we still need to hear from the devs. > > >> >>> 15- I know it is hard to tell at this point but any idea when ToriOS 1.0 >>> will be available to download and use? I know I'm the one who should >>> announce that but if truth to be told, it is something that our devs >>> should advise for and we haven't yet done anything serious. >> Upload an image of an installed ToriOS system, an
Re: [Torios] The Technical Side of ToriOS
On 05/27/2014 07:04 AM, Nio Wiklund wrote: > > Right now the OBI-9w 222 MB (10 base), 211 Mibibytes (2 base alias 1024 > base). But it contains a lot of utilities and software, that are not > necessary, for example a web browser and several small tools, that can > be peeled off, if necessary to keep it within CD size with a fairly > large tarball. Say that the tarball can be 500 MB. Then the total size > will be 722 MB (10 base), 688 Mibibytes (2 base) > > According to > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-ROM > > a '700 MB CD disk' can store 737.280 MB (10 base), 703.125 Mibibytes (2 > base). > > So without doing anything with the OBI-9w itself, the limit for the > tarball is 515 MB (10 base), 491 Mibibytes (2 base). I don't know if > some storage space is lost due to overhead data. > > The tarball can be a bit smaller than the corresponding iso file, > depending on the amount of data, that are specific for the live session > and on the compression method. I think we can do it if we include only minimal things. Even Lubuntu comes with extra things that aren't needed. We can surely leave off an e-mail program, and only offer to install it afterwards. A lot of people use the web browser for virtually everything. Technically a web browser can watch movies, play music, browse your filesystem, view images, (and lots more) even offline. I think this will be the important app to keep on it. >> ... > lubuntu-core and lubuntu-desktop are meta packages, that make it easy to > install a group of packages with one command. > > It is possible to use meta-packages or just a command line or script > file to install groups of packages for different user profiles, for example > > multimedia, office, gaming > ultra-light, medium-light > desktop, laptop, netbook > ... > > The advantage is that the installer will be flexible, the disadvantage > is that it will need internet and downloading to make each installation > complete. I think this is a good idea. We can host a PPA for testing, once it is decided what programs to use, etc... Maybe even get a 'jwm-desktop' or 'torios-desktop' package in the official repos one day :) > A text-based installer can be easy to understand. It depends more on the > layout than on fancy graphical effects. All UI can be confusing. I had to install Windows about a year ago to flash the BIOS on an old computer, and was surprised at how unintuitive some things were. Normal users might find certain parts of it hard and 'scary' When you ask someone "Are you really sure you want to do that?" it makes the user second guess, and decide not to choose what they chose. A well designed text based program is better than a gui for certain things. apt-get is better than software center and synaptic *if* you know what you are looking for already... the usage is quite clear. >> Technically, it would be super bad idea if a suer for example wishes to >> dual-boot ToriOS with Windows XP or whatever. However, I dislike to >> assume. I mean, we should be ready for any possible scenario if you know >> what I mean. > I guess we must be able to offer dual boot, and we are ... even if we > think it is a bad idea with very old computers. > >> Can the text-based installer handle the dual-boot system the same easy >> way the GUI installer does? > Well, I think gparted is by far the most user friendly partitioning > tool. And it needs a graphical desktop environment. And it is included > in the 9w Debian+LXDE based desktop, that is idling at 37 MB RAM and can > install without any problems in a computer with 128 MB RAM. > >> If we shall provide 64-bit, then definitely no need for text-based >> installer here. > No need, but might work as well. -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~torios Post to : torios@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~torios More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Torios] The Technical Side of ToriOS
2014-05-22 19:49, "Jörn Schönyan" skrev: > Hello everyone, I have only some minutes and make it short. > Am Donnerstag, 22. Mai 2014, 15:15:56 schrieb Ali Linx: >> Hola amigos, >> >> 3- ToriOS will be released every 12 months NOT every 6 months like >> Ubuntu - new idea. > I think it shouldn't be a big problem to rebuild the iso every 6 months > a.k.a. > the point releases. But that is a minor issue. >> 4- ToriOS 1.0 is based on 12.04 LTS - we have discussed that before but >> didn't yet 100% agree on. >> 5- ToriOS 2.0 will be based on 14.04 LTS > +14.04, we will have to package a lot of stuff soon enough. 12.04 we > have to > package a lot more. >> 6- nm-manager should not be used as far as I have read so far from >> different people all of them confirmed the big RAM eater is nm-manager. > We can make autostart of NetworkManager optional, I think. Most machines we > target shouldn't have Wifi, so everything is okay. >> 9- 60MB or 50MB? don't want to kill ourselves but if we could do that, >> why not? I guess you know what I'm talking about > The result of my testing iso was 70-80 MB, but with a file manager > (SpaceFM), > nm-applet, xterm+htop. I'll try to replace SpaceFM with Rox, so we > should be > at least under 70 MB. We will see what happens then. >> 10- Have we thought about the ISO size? any idea how big will it be? >> around 300MB? 400MB? less or more? AFAIK, it should never reach say >> 600MB, right? > Again, my testing iso as reference: it was ~500MB big, something like > 3,5 GB > installed. But it was compressed with xz+bs=1M, that is a "slow" > compression > with good compression ratio. Maybe it should fall back to the "normal" > compression, mainly because it's faster? But cd size would be the limit. >> 15- I know it is hard to tell at this point but any idea when ToriOS 1.0 >> will be available to download and use? I know I'm the one who should >> announce that but if truth to be told, it is something that our devs >> should advise for and we haven't yet done anything serious. > Too big ambitions, but the first point release of 14.04 would be nice. > 16- Do we have a Github repo, so I can share the script that I used to > create > the testing iso? It's based on a script from the Ubuntu GNOME-team, so > no big > magic. But it's working fine. >> >> Thank you! > Thank you, too! > > Hi Jörn and Ali, I would like to start testing how to make an OBI-9w install iso file for ToriOS. @Ali: Is it OK with the ToriOS community, that I get an image of the current version of ToriOS. @Jörn: Would you be able to upload a compressed image of the current ToriOS, so that I can start testing it with the OBI-9w installer? I mean, you can make a dd image compressed with gzip or xz, or a Clonezilla image (a directory with several files) if the system is in a fairly small drive, for example a 32 GB pendrive or smaller. It might be more convenient and independent of the drive size and partition size with a compressed tarball or other file archive that preserves the permissions of files and directories. Of course it is OK with an iso file too, if the iso file can be used to create a working ToriOS system. I think you can use Phill's server and just give the uploaded image read permissions for 'others' and let me know the path and filename. Then I would be able to fetch it and it will not be public (assuming it is too early for publishing). Best regards Nio -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~torios Post to : torios@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~torios More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Torios] The Technical Side of ToriOS
2014-05-27 15:30, Israel skrev: > On 05/27/2014 07:04 AM, Nio Wiklund wrote: >> >> Right now the OBI-9w 222 MB (10 base), 211 Mibibytes (2 base alias 1024 >> base). But it contains a lot of utilities and software, that are not >> necessary, for example a web browser and several small tools, that can >> be peeled off, if necessary to keep it within CD size with a fairly >> large tarball. Say that the tarball can be 500 MB. Then the total size >> will be 722 MB (10 base), 688 Mibibytes (2 base) >> >> According to >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-ROM >> >> a '700 MB CD disk' can store 737.280 MB (10 base), 703.125 Mibibytes (2 >> base). >> >> So without doing anything with the OBI-9w itself, the limit for the >> tarball is 515 MB (10 base), 491 Mibibytes (2 base). I don't know if >> some storage space is lost due to overhead data. >> >> The tarball can be a bit smaller than the corresponding iso file, >> depending on the amount of data, that are specific for the live session >> and on the compression method. > > I think we can do it if we include only minimal things. Even Lubuntu > comes with extra things that aren't needed. > > We can surely leave off an e-mail program, and only offer to install it > afterwards. A lot of people use the web browser > for virtually everything. Technically a web browser can watch movies, > play music, browse your filesystem, view images, > (and lots more) even offline. I think this will be the important app > to keep on it. I agree >>> ... >> lubuntu-core and lubuntu-desktop are meta packages, that make it easy to >> install a group of packages with one command. >> >> It is possible to use meta-packages or just a command line or script >> file to install groups of packages for different user profiles, for example >> >> multimedia, office, gaming >> ultra-light, medium-light >> desktop, laptop, netbook >> ... >> >> The advantage is that the installer will be flexible, the disadvantage >> is that it will need internet and downloading to make each installation >> complete. > I think this is a good idea. We can host a PPA for testing, once it is > decided what programs to use, etc... > Maybe even get a 'jwm-desktop' or 'torios-desktop' package in the > official repos one day :) Hi Israel and all other ToriOSes, Yes, it is a good idea with a 'jwm-desktop' or 'torios-desktop' package in the official repos one day. It will provide support to the really old and or weak computers, when the other flavours of Ubuntu are heading forward and gradually will need more horsepower and memory. -o- Try the newest version of the OBI-9w installer, made yesterday and uploaded today. It is not in the wiki manual yet, and I think I want to improve the menu before making it really public. But I think it is relevant for our discussion about ToriOS, because it has a kind of text based menu in the installed Ubuntu mini.iso system, that offers some typical post-installation meta packages Lubuntu Core Lubuntu standard Xubuntu standard and menu entries for update & dist-upgrade cleaning See this link https://help.ubuntu.com/community/9w and download this link *the txt3 iso file* http://phillw.net/isos/linux-tools/9w/obi_Trusty-npae124-txt3-9w.iso This method with typical post-installation meta packages can be extended easily and made convenient for the end user. See the attached picture, made in my workstation with way too much memory for these light-weight systems, but anyway, it shows what the choice menu can look like in text mode in the final system, before a graphical desktop environment is installed. -o- I can understand that you may want to have more control over the look and feel of ToriOS, and want a basic graphical desktop environment. But you can keep the concept of a window with a menu with alternative meta packages and other useful menu entries. You can also have desktop file 'meta_packages.desktop' offering such a menu. Best regards Nio -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~torios Post to : torios@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~torios More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Torios] The Technical Side of ToriOS
On 05/27/2014 10:13 AM, Nio Wiklund wrote: > 2014-05-27 15:30, Israel skrev: >> I think we can do it if we include only minimal things. Even Lubuntu >> comes with extra things that aren't needed. >> >> We can surely leave off an e-mail program, and only offer to install it >> afterwards. A lot of people use the web browser >> for virtually everything. Technically a web browser can watch movies, >> play music, browse your filesystem, view images, >> (and lots more) even offline. I think this will be the important app >> to keep on it. > I agree I wonder if we should use a simple browser for some of those common things, rather than including a lot of other things. Of course imagemagick is light and fast. It has the ability to take screen shots, and display images, etc.. So it might be good to include for that though we'd need a script to use the screen shots capability in a sane way for users, to assign a filename, and increment it if they take multiple shots. something like Screenshot-$date.jpg where $date it the time/date stamp. ... >>> lubuntu-core and lubuntu-desktop are meta packages, that make it easy to >>> install a group of packages with one command. >>> >>> It is possible to use meta-packages or just a command line or script >>> file to install groups of packages for different user profiles, for example >>> >>> multimedia, office, gaming >>> ultra-light, medium-light >>> desktop, laptop, netbook >>> ... >>> >>> The advantage is that the installer will be flexible, the disadvantage >>> is that it will need internet and downloading to make each installation >>> complete. >> I think this is a good idea. We can host a PPA for testing, once it is >> decided what programs to use, etc... >> Maybe even get a 'jwm-desktop' or 'torios-desktop' package in the >> official repos one day :) > Hi Israel and all other ToriOSes, > > Yes, it is a good idea with a 'jwm-desktop' or 'torios-desktop' package > in the official repos one day. It will provide support to the really old > and or weak computers, when the other flavours of Ubuntu are heading > forward and gradually will need more horsepower and memory. > > -o- > > Try the newest version of the OBI-9w installer, made yesterday and > uploaded today. It is not in the wiki manual yet, and I think I want to > improve the menu before making it really public. But I think it is > relevant for our discussion about ToriOS, because it has a kind of text > based menu in the installed Ubuntu mini.iso system, that offers some > typical post-installation meta packages > > Lubuntu Core > Lubuntu standard > Xubuntu standard > > and menu entries for > > update & dist-upgrade > cleaning > > See this link > > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/9w > > and download this link *the txt3 iso file* > > http://phillw.net/isos/linux-tools/9w/obi_Trusty-npae124-txt3-9w.iso > > This method with typical post-installation meta packages can be extended > easily and made convenient for the end user. > > See the attached picture, made in my workstation with way too much > memory for these light-weight systems, but anyway, it shows what the > choice menu can look like in text mode in the final system, before a > graphical desktop environment is installed. > > -o- > > I can understand that you may want to have more control over the look > and feel of ToriOS, and want a basic graphical desktop environment. But > you can keep the concept of a window with a menu with alternative meta > packages and other useful menu entries. You can also have desktop file > 'meta_packages.desktop' offering such a menu. > > Best regards > Nio What are you using for the graphics? Is it ncurses or something else? I am asking to know if it can it be themed differently? It would be nice to make a really solid user experience where Tori OS can have a specific 'branding' from the first moment of installation to the first boot into the OS. And also... which Virtual Machine program works the best for this, can I just use Virtual Box, or do you suggest VMWare, or something else. I don't have a PAE machine to use right now... though, and my old PPC wont work with this. Of course I get 'broken' computers from people when they get a new one. And I fix them (usually only requires installing a version of Ubuntu, which I choose based on Hardware and user expectations) and give them to someone who has a REALLY broken computer, and cannot afford to buy a new computer right away (or at all). -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~torios Post to : torios@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~torios More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Torios] Introduction
Hi Ali, As far as I know from gaming experience, Israel timezone is +4 then mine, but it's closer than S. Francisco, where it's +6 :-o Yes, I've heard that about your IRC taste. Was hoping to find you there last night since you mentioned on a blueprint that informal meetings used to happen after 8 pm on our IRC channel. Anyway, now I know why there was no meeting and why this project is growing slowly. I appreciate your email offer, but I have to decline for now. I don't find that very useful since the project is growing slowly and all the things that need to be done are out of my skill set. For that, and since I find it hard to control more then 1 account, I have to decline your offer. Perhaps in the future, when things get bigger, I'll accept that email, even to discuss some formal matters with other teams/people. I've joined 3 projects for now. All them are related within the same matters. I believe I'll be able to handle them all quite easily, as long as there's teamwork which is something I expect to happen. Perhaps I'll stick with the one which needs me more and my skill sets - which I know it's not all of them obviously. Thanks for replying! See you around, Gustavo 2014-05-27 12:27 GMT+01:00 Ali Linx : > > On 05/26/2014 06:46 PM, Gustavo Silva wrote: > > Hi everyone. > > > Hello Gustavo, > > First of all, I'd like to thank you a lot for answering my call of help on > Google+ and for joining ToriOS. It is always great to have more volunteers > from different part of the world. That is the most fun part of any FOSS > project :) > > > > > I was reading ToriOS launchpad page and I found out what I should do > since I'm the youngest team member and it includes sending an email to this > mailing list in order to introduce myself. > > > I do like this kind of quality of people who do actually read instead of > keep asking Qs and I'm getting very interested to work with you and so glad > to have you within our team :D > > > > Well, I'm Gustavo, reaching you from Portugal and I'm a Ubuntu user. > > > Welcome to our team and it is great to have someone from Portugal. This > means almost most of us are close when it comes to time zone. I guess > Israel and William are living on different time zones (- something GMT) but > that is normal with any FOSS project. We surely don't have to live at the > same house :P > > > I joined ToriOS because I think Ali's plans are good and helpful for the > development of Ubuntu's community. > > > Appreciate that :) > > > > I believe there's too many Ubuntu distributions and perhaps this project > can solve the problem by simple decreasing the number via mergers and > gathering forces and other groups. > > > Yes, that is my dream and plan. However, we must show ToriOS to the world > and then start the merging phase :D > > > > Other then that, I'm not a developer. I'm a business person. Studied > management in my BA and now I'm finishing a master's degree in Industrial > and Firms Economics. That's important to tell what I can be useful: > - Strategy (Marketing and Communications, Ops development and planning); > - Translations (I used to translate for the Portuguese group a long time > ago); > - Documentation > > > Very interesting :D > > > > I'm gsilva on freenode and I'm usually online 24/7 since I use a ZNC. > Feel free to email me, contact me via G+, IRC or Launchpad to ask any > questions. > > > Here is a list of our official channels: > http://torios.org/contact.html > > I'm not an IRC Type (I'm sure all my FOSS friends know this already) so > don't hold your hopes high to see me on IRC unless there is something > important or I have some free time which is impossible these days. > > Here is my contacts: > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad#Contacts > > > Hopefully I'll bring important thoughts and ideas for this project. > > > I'm sure you will :) > > By the way, if you're planning to contribute to this project for the long > run, then we could offer you - of course - free @torios.org email so that > you be 100% official member :D let me know if you're interested ;) > > > > Best, > Gustavo > > > > Thank you and welcome :) > > By the way, I have noticed that you joined Ubuntu GNOME too (another > project that I'm leading - except I'm not the founder - > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad/UbuntuGNOME-Team ). > > An advise from someone who have done A LOT to the FOSS world specially > Ubuntu world. I don't want to kill your interest at all but don't overdo it > or else, you will end up like me, a burned out man who seems to be enjoying > that :P hehe. Okay, kidding aside, the reason why I became slow and less > active on all my projects is because I'm trying to take care of myself > more. I used to spend days online and I mean days. Ask about me :D but > recently, my health is getting really down so I must slow down. Projects > are my passion. If I find 30mins free time, I start new project. This is > fun but not good for health. I don't want you to spread you
Re: [Torios] The Technical Side of ToriOS
Hi Israel, See text inline and at the end ... Best regards/Nio 2014-05-27 18:29, Israel skrev: > On 05/27/2014 10:13 AM, Nio Wiklund wrote: >> 2014-05-27 15:30, Israel skrev: >>> I think we can do it if we include only minimal things. Even Lubuntu >>> comes with extra things that aren't needed. >>> >>> We can surely leave off an e-mail program, and only offer to install it >>> afterwards. A lot of people use the web browser >>> for virtually everything. Technically a web browser can watch movies, >>> play music, browse your filesystem, view images, >>> (and lots more) even offline. I think this will be the important app >>> to keep on it. >> I agree > I wonder if we should use a simple browser for some of those common > things, rather than including a lot of other things. > Of course imagemagick is light and fast. It has the ability to take > screen shots, and display images, etc.. So it might be good to include > for that > though we'd need a script to use the screen shots capability in a sane > way for users, to assign a filename, and increment it if they take > multiple shots. > something like Screenshot-$date.jpg where $date it the time/date stamp. It is definitely worth considering > ... lubuntu-core and lubuntu-desktop are meta packages, that make it easy to install a group of packages with one command. It is possible to use meta-packages or just a command line or script file to install groups of packages for different user profiles, for example multimedia, office, gaming ultra-light, medium-light desktop, laptop, netbook ... The advantage is that the installer will be flexible, the disadvantage is that it will need internet and downloading to make each installation complete. >>> I think this is a good idea. We can host a PPA for testing, once it is >>> decided what programs to use, etc... >>> Maybe even get a 'jwm-desktop' or 'torios-desktop' package in the >>> official repos one day :) >> Hi Israel and all other ToriOSes, >> >> Yes, it is a good idea with a 'jwm-desktop' or 'torios-desktop' package >> in the official repos one day. It will provide support to the really old >> and or weak computers, when the other flavours of Ubuntu are heading >> forward and gradually will need more horsepower and memory. >> >> -o- >> >> Try the newest version of the OBI-9w installer, made yesterday and >> uploaded today. It is not in the wiki manual yet, and I think I want to >> improve the menu before making it really public. But I think it is >> relevant for our discussion about ToriOS, because it has a kind of text >> based menu in the installed Ubuntu mini.iso system, that offers some >> typical post-installation meta packages >> >> Lubuntu Core >> Lubuntu standard >> Xubuntu standard >> >> and menu entries for >> >> update & dist-upgrade >> cleaning >> >> See this link >> >> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/9w >> >> and download this link *the txt3 iso file* >> >> http://phillw.net/isos/linux-tools/9w/obi_Trusty-npae124-txt3-9w.iso >> >> This method with typical post-installation meta packages can be extended >> easily and made convenient for the end user. >> >> See the attached picture, made in my workstation with way too much >> memory for these light-weight systems, but anyway, it shows what the >> choice menu can look like in text mode in the final system, before a >> graphical desktop environment is installed. >> >> -o- >> >> I can understand that you may want to have more control over the look >> and feel of ToriOS, and want a basic graphical desktop environment. But >> you can keep the concept of a window with a menu with alternative meta >> packages and other useful menu entries. You can also have desktop file >> 'meta_packages.desktop' offering such a menu. >> >> Best regards >> Nio > What are you using for the graphics? Is it ncurses or something else? > I am asking to know if it can it be themed differently? > It would be nice to make a really solid user experience where Tori OS > can have a specific 'branding' > from the first moment of installation to the first boot into the OS. > > And also... which Virtual Machine program works the best for this, can I > just use Virtual Box, or do you suggest VMWare, or something else. > I don't have a PAE machine to use right now... though, and my old PPC > wont work with this. Of course I get 'broken' computers from people > when they get a new one. > And I fix them (usually only requires installing a version of Ubuntu, > which I choose based on Hardware and user expectations) > and give them to someone who has a REALLY broken computer, and cannot > afford to buy a new computer right away (or at all). > The 9w installer itself can run in text mode or graphics mode. The default graphical desktop environment is LXDE (as it is in Debian). I have only changed the background picture. The menu system is using the 'dialog' package, a script-interpreter which provides a
Re: [Torios] The Technical Side of ToriOS
On 05/27/2014 01:40 PM, Nio Wiklund wrote: > Hi Israel, > See text inline and at the end ... > Best regards/Nio > > 2014-05-27 18:29, Israel skrev: > >> I wonder if we should use a simple browser for some of those common >> things, rather than including a lot of other things. >> Of course imagemagick is light and fast. It has the ability to take >> screen shots, and display images, etc.. So it might be good to include >> for that >> though we'd need a script to use the screen shots capability in a sane >> way for users, to assign a filename, and increment it if they take >> multiple shots. >> something like Screenshot-$date.jpg where $date it the time/date stamp. > It is definitely worth considering If I have time I might write a script to test out... *IF* so many things going on in both real life and GNU/Linux life >> >> What are you using for the graphics? Is it ncurses or something else? >> I am asking to know if it can it be themed differently? >> It would be nice to make a really solid user experience where Tori OS >> can have a specific 'branding' >> from the first moment of installation to the first boot into the OS. >> >> And also... which Virtual Machine program works the best for this, can I >> just use Virtual Box, or do you suggest VMWare, or something else. >> I don't have a PAE machine to use right now... though, and my old PPC >> wont work with this. Of course I get 'broken' computers from people >> when they get a new one. >> And I fix them (usually only requires installing a version of Ubuntu, >> which I choose based on Hardware and user expectations) >> and give them to someone who has a REALLY broken computer, and cannot >> afford to buy a new computer right away (or at all). >> > The 9w installer itself can run in text mode or graphics mode. The > default graphical desktop environment is LXDE (as it is in Debian). I > have only changed the background picture. > > The menu system is using the 'dialog' package, a script-interpreter > which provides a set of curses widgets. It works in text mode as well as > reasonably well in terminal windows (where for example mouse clicks > work; dialog works with X/Open curses). It is similar to whiptail (which > I think is used in the alternate installer). I like dialog, so use it. > > -o- > > I think it is easier to perform the branding in a fully graphical > desktop environment. It is possible to translate the dialog scripts to > work with zenity. They are similar but not the same. (I have used > kdialog some years ago, but never zenity.) > > Of course it is possible (and probably more flexible) to use python, but > I have no experience of using it. I started with a tutorial, but there > was no time for it. > > -o- > > I think most virtual machines work with 9w. I have tested it in > VirtualBox and KVM + virt-manager. I made screenshots recently in > VirtualBox, where you can set the properties of the virtual cpu and to > limit the RAM to low values. Use VirtualBox that you know already! > > One good feature with KVM + virt-manager is that guest machines can boot > from USB and from image files (dd dumps of block devices) in the host > computer. > > -o- > > 'I don't have a PAE machine to use right now...' OOPS... :) > You can't be serious :-D > > Yes, I know what you mean. I hope you find a non-pae computer that is > 'broken' but not really broken :-) I do think there is one lying around somewhere at my in laws house. The last time I saw it I tried booting Lubuntu on it to no avail, as the memory was unreasonably small for Lubuntu. Puppy worked fine with it, though. > I have an IBM Thinkpad T42 with Pentium M. It lacks a PAE flag, but has > PAE capability. Lubuntu 14.04 LTS works well with Phill's non-pae kernel > as well as with the generic PAE kernel and the boot option forcepae. > > -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~torios Post to : torios@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~torios More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
