Re: Prefix key preference [Was: Run long commands in Vim]

2011-05-30 Thread Randy Stauner
I currently use ctrl-/.
Though, strangely that key combination on my computer actually sends ctrl-_
(which is how i have to specify it in my tmux conf).
Something about it makes me uncomfortable, but it's easy for my fingers to
reach and doesn't clash with any other keys.

tl;dr:

I, too, was tired of using a prefix-key that inconvenienced another key.
I was thrilled to get away from the double-tapping of A that i did in
screen,
but found that i was unwilling to start doing it with ctrl-b since I use
ctrl-f and ctrl-b to page back and forth even more frequently than i use
ctrl-a.

I should probably find a different key, although considering how quickly i
was able to stop doubling my ctrl-a's
i think if i find another prefix in the future it won't be all that hard to
switch.

If you find yourself having trouble breaking an old habit, try putting an
even greater inconvenience in it's way:
For ctrl-A this already exists: you get an extra a at the beginning of your
prompt which you'll quickly get sick of.
As another example, when I tried to teach myself to stop using "vi" and type
out "vim" i simply aliased "vi" to echo me a reminder to use "vim" and then
do nothing.  I quickly learned to stop doing that and have since removed my
alias.

On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Patrick Shanahan  wrote:

> * Chas. Owens  [05-28-11 16:31]:
> > snip
> >
> > At the very least it clashes with bash's emacs mode C-a command to
> > move the cursor to the begging of the line.
>
> yes, it is a great inconvenience to: 
>
>
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Re: if statements in .tmux.conf

2011-05-30 Thread Nicholas Marriott
this is accurate, if-shell is asynchronous

need to fix that sometime but it ain't easy


On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 11:59:39AM -0700, Randy Stauner wrote:
>I don't know too much about tmux internals but I'm going to take a guess
>here:
>I think the if-shell command is forking and running asynchronously
>and tmux is creating the first window before that command returns and sets
>the global option.
>Simply setting the option (with -g) does work as expected (without the
>if-shell)...
>So I tried putting the if-shell line at the very top of my tmux.conf.
>I tried doing the same thing with both "set-option -g" and simply
>"set-option"...
>at first it appeared to work, but on retrying it seemed inconsistent.
> sometimes the first window gets it,
>sometimes it doesn't.  a second window usually seems to have it (but not
>always...)
>I even grep a ps listing to make sure the tmux server is down so that I'm
>not getting a cached conf.
>I tried putting a "sleep 9;" command in my if-shell and found that my
>windows were created as fast as they ever are,
>but TERM was set to "screen" (no matter how many windows I created) until
>9 seconds had passed.
>Then new windows got the new setting.
>So it appears that if-shell runs asynchronously even though you may not be
>expecting that.
>The run-shell command appears to operate the same way.
>As a workaround you could put this TERM logic in your bashrc (or
>rc/profile for whatever shell you use).
>That's where I put it on my pc: I test if the terminfo db supports
>screen-256color and then change it.
> 
>I could certainly see it being handy to have a synchronous version of (or
>an option for) if-shell...
>On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 10:38 AM, qwerty asdfg <[1]bollo...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
> 
>  Hello there.
>  I am having issues with the if statements
>  I have a line in my .tmux.conf like this:
>  if '[ -n $DISPLAY ]' 'set -g default-terminal screen-256color'
>  But it only works if I open another window,else the terminal is still
>  screen..Is there any way to fix this?
>  
> --
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>Visible links
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Re: if statements in .tmux.conf

2011-05-30 Thread Randy Stauner
yeah, my only knowledge of that stuff comes from my experience with perl...
i believe perl's system() call does a fork, then in the child an exec() and
in the parent a wait() or waitpid() or something along those lines...
I'd definitely need to read up on it.
I'm sure with other forking going on elsewhere in the server it gets more
complicated.

On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 7:26 AM, Nicholas Marriott <
nicholas.marri...@gmail.com> wrote:

> this is accurate, if-shell is asynchronous
>
> need to fix that sometime but it ain't easy
>
>
> On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 11:59:39AM -0700, Randy Stauner wrote:
> >I don't know too much about tmux internals but I'm going to take a
> guess
> >here:
> >I think the if-shell command is forking and running asynchronously
> >and tmux is creating the first window before that command returns and
> sets
> >the global option.
> >Simply setting the option (with -g) does work as expected (without the
> >if-shell)...
> >So I tried putting the if-shell line at the very top of my tmux.conf.
> >I tried doing the same thing with both "set-option -g" and simply
> >"set-option"...
> >at first it appeared to work, but on retrying it seemed inconsistent.
> > sometimes the first window gets it,
> >sometimes it doesn't.  a second window usually seems to have it (but
> not
> >always...)
> >I even grep a ps listing to make sure the tmux server is down so that
> I'm
> >not getting a cached conf.
> >I tried putting a "sleep 9;" command in my if-shell and found that my
> >windows were created as fast as they ever are,
> >but TERM was set to "screen" (no matter how many windows I created)
> until
> >9 seconds had passed.
> >Then new windows got the new setting.
> >So it appears that if-shell runs asynchronously even though you may
> not be
> >expecting that.
> >The run-shell command appears to operate the same way.
> >As a workaround you could put this TERM logic in your bashrc (or
> >rc/profile for whatever shell you use).
> >That's where I put it on my pc: I test if the terminfo db supports
> >screen-256color and then change it.
> >
> >I could certainly see it being handy to have a synchronous version of
> (or
> >an option for) if-shell...
> >On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 10:38 AM, qwerty asdfg <[1]bollo...@gmail.com
> >
> >wrote:
> >
> >  Hello there.
> >  I am having issues with the if statements
> >  I have a line in my .tmux.conf like this:
> >  if '[ -n $DISPLAY ]' 'set -g default-terminal screen-256color'
> >  But it only works if I open another window,else the terminal is
> still
> >  screen..Is there any way to fix this?
> >
>  
> --
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> >  you get blazing-fast, flexible, and affordable data protection.
> >  Download your free trial now.
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> >
> > References
> >
> >Visible links
> >1. mailto:bollo...@gmail.com
> >2. http://p.sf.net/sfu/quest-d2dcopy1
> >3. mailto:tmux-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >4. https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tmux-users
>
> >
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Re: if statements in .tmux.conf

2011-05-30 Thread Nicholas Marriott
The tmux server can never block


On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 10:05:30AM -0700, Randy Stauner wrote:
>yeah, my only knowledge of that stuff comes from my experience with
>perl...
>i believe perl's system() call does a fork, then in the child an exec()
>and in the parent a wait() or waitpid() or something along those lines...
>I'd definitely need to read up on it.
>I'm sure with other forking going on elsewhere in the server it gets more
>complicated.
>On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 7:26 AM, Nicholas Marriott
><[1]nicholas.marri...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>  this is accurate, if-shell is asynchronous
> 
>  need to fix that sometime but it ain't easy
> 
>  On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 11:59:39AM -0700, Randy Stauner wrote:
>  > ** **I don't know too much about tmux internals but I'm going to take
>  a guess
>  > ** **here:
>  > ** **I think the if-shell command is forking and running
>  asynchronously
>  > ** **and tmux is creating the first window before that command returns
>  and sets
>  > ** **the global option.
>  > ** **Simply setting the option (with -g) does work as expected
>  (without the
>  > ** **if-shell)...
>  > ** **So I tried putting the if-shell line at the very top of my
>  tmux.conf.
>  > ** **I tried doing the same thing with both "set-option -g" and simply
>  > ** **"set-option"...
>  > ** **at first it appeared to work, but on retrying it seemed
>  inconsistent.
>  > ** ** sometimes the first window gets it,
>  > ** **sometimes it doesn't. **a second window usually seems to have it
>  (but not
>  > ** **always...)
>  > ** **I even grep a ps listing to make sure the tmux server is down so
>  that I'm
>  > ** **not getting a cached conf.
>  > ** **I tried putting a "sleep 9;" command in my if-shell and found
>  that my
>  > ** **windows were created as fast as they ever are,
>  > ** **but TERM was set to "screen" (no matter how many windows I
>  created) until
>  > ** **9 seconds had passed.
>  > ** **Then new windows got the new setting.
>  > ** **So it appears that if-shell runs asynchronously even though you
>  may not be
>  > ** **expecting that.
>  > ** **The run-shell command appears to operate the same way.
>  > ** **As a workaround you could put this TERM logic in your bashrc (or
>  > ** **rc/profile for whatever shell you use).
>  > ** **That's where I put it on my pc: I test if the terminfo db
>  supports
>  > ** **screen-256color and then change it.
>  >
>  > ** **I could certainly see it being handy to have a synchronous
>  version of (or
>  > ** **an option for) if-shell...
>  > ** **On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 10:38 AM, qwerty asdfg
>  <[1][2]bollo...@gmail.com>
>  > ** **wrote:
>  >
>  > ** ** **Hello there.
>  > ** ** **I am having issues with the if statements
>  > ** ** **I have a line in my .tmux.conf like this:
>  > ** ** **if '[ -n $DISPLAY ]' 'set -g default-terminal screen-256color'
>  > ** ** **But it only works if I open another window,else the terminal
>  is still
>  > ** ** **screen..Is there any way to fix this?
>  > ** **
>  
> **--
>  > ** ** **vRanger cuts backup time in half-while increasing security.
>  > ** ** **With the market-leading solution for virtual backup and
>  recovery,
>  > ** ** **you get blazing-fast, flexible, and affordable data
>  protection.
>  > ** ** **Download your free trial now.
>  > ** ** **[2][3]http://p.sf.net/sfu/quest-d2dcopy1
>  > ** ** **___
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>  > ** ** **[3][4]tmux-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>  > ** ** **[4][5]https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tmux-users
>  >
>  > References
>  >
>  > ** **Visible links
>  > ** **1. mailto:[6]bollo...@gmail.com
>  > ** **2. [7]http://p.sf.net/sfu/quest-d2dcopy1
>  > ** **3. mailto:[8]tmux-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>  > ** **4. [9]https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tmux-users
>  >
>  
> --
>  > vRanger cuts backup time in half-while increasing security.
>  > With the market-leading solution for virtual backup and recovery,
>  > you get blazing-fast, flexible, and affordable data protection.
>  > Download your free trial now.
>  > [10]http://p.sf.net/sfu/quest-d2dcopy1
> 
>  > ___
>  > tmux-users mailing list
>  > [11]tmux-users@lists.sourceforge.net
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> 
> References
> 
>Visible links
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>2. mailto:bollo...@gmail.com
>3.

Re: if statements in .tmux.conf

2011-05-30 Thread Randy Stauner
true... that would make it much more difficult.

On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Nicholas Marriott <
nicholas.marri...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The tmux server can never block
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Re: if statements in .tmux.conf

2011-05-30 Thread Nicholas Marriott
On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 10:17:20AM -0700, Randy Stauner wrote:
>maybe a path to consider would be to do conf-reading in a child process (a
>fork)...
>would that be able to wait, then when it's all done start passing values
>back to the server?

It would be very complicated because there are >100 commands and almost
all of them affect some data structure in the server.

>not sure about that... it would definitely take some effort.
>please excuse my ignorance of the greater tmux workings.
>I'd love to learn more, though, and be able to help.
> 
>On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Randy Stauner
><[1]ra...@magnificent-tears.com> wrote:
> 
>  true... that would make it much more difficult.
> 
>  On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Nicholas Marriott
>  <[2]nicholas.marri...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>The tmux server can never block
> 
> References
> 
>Visible links
>1. mailto:ra...@magnificent-tears.com
>2. mailto:nicholas.marri...@gmail.com

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Re: if statements in .tmux.conf

2011-05-30 Thread Randy Stauner
maybe a path to consider would be to do conf-reading in a child process (a
fork)...

would that be able to wait, then when it's all done start passing values
back to the server?

not sure about that... it would definitely take some effort.

please excuse my ignorance of the greater tmux workings.
I'd love to learn more, though, and be able to help.

On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Randy Stauner  wrote:

> true... that would make it much more difficult.
>
>
> On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Nicholas Marriott <
> nicholas.marri...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The tmux server can never block
>
>
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Re: if statements in .tmux.conf

2011-05-30 Thread Randy Stauner
how is it different than when i use the command line inside of tmux?
does that go straight to the server?
how does that compare to calling "tmux command" from the shell?

these are mostly rhetorical questions, i'm not asking you to email a
dissertation on the inner workings...

just thinking about the different ways that commands get entered in now
and if perhaps one of those could be utilized...

when i hit prefix + ":" it waits for my input...

oh, perhaps your point is that the "if-shell" command and its arguments are
sent to the server and the server runs it?
if that's the case, could a synchronous version be run from the child
process accepting the request?
then if the shell command returns true, call back to the server with the
tmux command to run?

i hope i'm not bothering you, i just enjoy thinking about this stuff  :-)
it's why i became a programmer.

On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 10:23 AM, Nicholas Marriott <
nicholas.marri...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 10:17:20AM -0700, Randy Stauner wrote:
> >maybe a path to consider would be to do conf-reading in a child
> process (a
> >fork)...
> >would that be able to wait, then when it's all done start passing
> values
> >back to the server?
>
> It would be very complicated because there are >100 commands and almost
> all of them affect some data structure in the server.
>
> >not sure about that... it would definitely take some effort.
> >please excuse my ignorance of the greater tmux workings.
> >I'd love to learn more, though, and be able to help.
> >
> >On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Randy Stauner
> ><[1]ra...@magnificent-tears.com> wrote:
> >
> >  true... that would make it much more difficult.
> >
> >  On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Nicholas Marriott
> >  <[2]nicholas.marri...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >The tmux server can never block
> >
> > References
> >
> >Visible links
> >1. mailto:ra...@magnificent-tears.com
> >2. mailto:nicholas.marri...@gmail.com
>
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Re: if statements in .tmux.conf

2011-05-30 Thread Nicholas Marriott
On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 10:36:21AM -0700, Randy Stauner wrote:
>how is it different than when i use the command line inside of tmux?
>does that go straight to the server?
>how does that compare to calling "tmux command" from the shell?
>these are mostly rhetorical questions, i'm not asking you to email a
>dissertation on**the inner workings...**

yes they are both handled directly by the server

>just thinking about the different ways that commands get entered in now
>and if perhaps one of those could be utilized...
>when i hit prefix + ":" it waits for my input...
>oh, perhaps your point is that the "if-shell" command and its arguments
>are sent to the server and the server runs it?

yes

>if that's the case, could a synchronous version be run from the child
>process accepting the request?

no because it would have to update a lot of stuff in the server it
doesn't have access to so it would require a very complicated protocol

>then if the shell command returns true, call back to the server with the
>tmux command to run?
>i hope i'm not bothering you, i just enjoy thinking about this stuff **:-)
>it's why i became a programmer.
> 
>On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 10:23 AM, Nicholas Marriott
><[1]nicholas.marri...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>  On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 10:17:20AM -0700, Randy Stauner wrote:
>  > ** **maybe a path to consider would be to do conf-reading in a child
>  process (a
>  > ** **fork)...
>  > ** **would that be able to wait, then when it's all done start passing
>  values
>  > ** **back to the server?
> 
>  It would be very complicated because there are >100 commands and almost
>  all of them affect some data structure in the server.
>  > ** **not sure about that... it would definitely take some effort.
>  > ** **please excuse my ignorance of the greater tmux workings.
>  > ** **I'd love to learn more, though, and be able to help.
>  >
>  > ** **On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Randy Stauner
>  > ** **<[1][2]ra...@magnificent-tears.com> wrote:
>  >
>  > ** ** **true... that would make it much more difficult.
>  >
>  > ** ** **On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Nicholas Marriott
>  > ** ** **<[2][3]nicholas.marri...@gmail.com> wrote:
>  >
>  > ** ** ** **The tmux server can never block
>  >
>  > References
>  >
>  > ** **Visible links
>  > ** **1. mailto:[4]ra...@magnificent-tears.com
>  > ** **2. mailto:[5]nicholas.marri...@gmail.com
> 
> References
> 
>Visible links
>1. mailto:nicholas.marri...@gmail.com
>2. mailto:ra...@magnificent-tears.com
>3. mailto:nicholas.marri...@gmail.com
>4. mailto:ra...@magnificent-tears.com
>5. mailto:nicholas.marri...@gmail.com

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Re: if statements in .tmux.conf

2011-05-30 Thread Randy Stauner
i see.
well thanks very much for the conversation.
i'll put that on my to-think-about list.  :-)

On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Nicholas Marriott <
nicholas.marri...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 10:36:21AM -0700, Randy Stauner wrote:
> >how is it different than when i use the command line inside of tmux?
> >does that go straight to the server?
> >how does that compare to calling "tmux command" from the shell?
> >these are mostly rhetorical questions, i'm not asking you to email a
> >dissertation on**the inner workings...**
>
> yes they are both handled directly by the server
>
> >just thinking about the different ways that commands get entered in
> now
> >and if perhaps one of those could be utilized...
> >when i hit prefix + ":" it waits for my input...
> >oh, perhaps your point is that the "if-shell" command and its
> arguments
> >are sent to the server and the server runs it?
>
> yes
>
> >if that's the case, could a synchronous version be run from the child
> >process accepting the request?
>
> no because it would have to update a lot of stuff in the server it
> doesn't have access to so it would require a very complicated protocol
>
> >then if the shell command returns true, call back to the server with
> the
> >tmux command to run?
> >i hope i'm not bothering you, i just enjoy thinking about this stuff
> **:-)
> >it's why i became a programmer.
> >
> >On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 10:23 AM, Nicholas Marriott
> ><[1]nicholas.marri...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >  On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 10:17:20AM -0700, Randy Stauner wrote:
> >  > ** **maybe a path to consider would be to do conf-reading in a
> child
> >  process (a
> >  > ** **fork)...
> >  > ** **would that be able to wait, then when it's all done start
> passing
> >  values
> >  > ** **back to the server?
> >
> >  It would be very complicated because there are >100 commands and
> almost
> >  all of them affect some data structure in the server.
> >  > ** **not sure about that... it would definitely take some effort.
> >  > ** **please excuse my ignorance of the greater tmux workings.
> >  > ** **I'd love to learn more, though, and be able to help.
> >  >
> >  > ** **On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Randy Stauner
> >  > ** **<[1][2]ra...@magnificent-tears.com> wrote:
> >  >
> >  > ** ** **true... that would make it much more difficult.
> >  >
> >  > ** ** **On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Nicholas Marriott
> >  > ** ** **<[2][3]nicholas.marri...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >  >
> >  > ** ** ** **The tmux server can never block
> >  >
> >  > References
> >  >
> >  > ** **Visible links
> >  > ** **1. mailto:[4]ra...@magnificent-tears.com
> >  > ** **2. mailto:[5]nicholas.marri...@gmail.com
> >
> > References
> >
> >Visible links
> >1. mailto:nicholas.marri...@gmail.com
> >2. mailto:ra...@magnificent-tears.com
> >3. mailto:nicholas.marri...@gmail.com
> >4. mailto:ra...@magnificent-tears.com
> >5. mailto:nicholas.marri...@gmail.com
>
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Re: Prefix key preference [Was: Run long commands in Vim]

2011-05-30 Thread Chas. Owens
On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 10:06, Randy Stauner
 wrote:
snip
> As another example, when I tried to teach myself to stop using "vi" and type
> out "vim" i simply aliased "vi" to echo me a reminder to use "vim" and then
> do nothing.  I quickly learned to stop doing that and have since removed my
> alias.
snip

Why type out vim instead of vi?  I always just alias vi to be vim.



-- 
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