Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - ephemeral -STOPPED

[Warin]

On 18/07/18 16:27, Andrew Davidson wrote:

On 18/07/18 13:02, Warin wrote:

Voting stopped due to removal of section.


That was my bad. I'd been confused when I found three voting sections 
on the page. From your email I had been expecting to vote twice, but 
when I found three sections and noticed that you had only voted twice 
I had assumed that the third vote was a cut-and-paste error.


I apologise, I should have read the third section much, much more 
closely before deleting.


I should have made it clear.



Having said that the third vote is a little redundant. The second vote 
is "Optional voting on a default of intermittent=yes for the key 
ephemeral" and the third vote is "Optional voting on requesting 
mappers to add intermittent=yes to the key ephemeral". The only 
internally logical votes are yes for two and no for three (or 
vice-versa). If you vote yes/yes then you are saying the default for 
intermittent is yes but you still have to add it. If you vote no/no 
then you are saying the default value for intermittent is no but you 
don't have to add it for ephemeral=*.


The last 2 votes are meant to be yes for one only,  as I said .. I 
should have made that clear.
There is no compulsion to vote for the last 2, it is just 2 different 
ways of doing the same thing.

So voting yes for one of the two will do the job.

I'll try a table and see how that looks .. the options side by side 
might be a visual hint.


-
It will give me a chance to respond to some of the votes already cast .. 
which I'll take the full opportunity to do so :)

So in a way it is a good thing.


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Re: [Tagging] US Forest Service (USDA) and logging

[Warin]

On 18/07/18 10:25, Michael Patrick wrote:


> Apparently areas used for logging-related purposes are not to be
mapped in
> OSM .. there are no tags available for this land use.
> We simply cannot map them.
>

Well, this complicates things for the US, most national forests
are for this purpose.


Actually, it is not 'most' ... 2,000 Million total acres of land, only 
150 Million under unreserved forest land (timberland). And of that 
actual harvesting affects only 10 million acres in the U.S. annually, 
or about 1.3% of all forest land. But, I agree, it is 'complicated':


Yes it is complicated.
Here a pink arse parrot takes up residence in a tree and you cannot log 
near them. Fine.
But the intention was and is to have that area available for timber, may 
not happen for another 20 years .. but it should happen.

So I'd still map it for the landuse of timber.
There are other restrictions too - near a creek etc.

--
My idea of landuse=logging is that it takes place for a short period of 
time (compared to the growing of a tree) so it is like changing 
landuse=farmland to landuse=harvesting while crops are being harvested.
Not only that, but it may be that an area of trees is being cut down to 
create a farm or a new suburb or some industrial plant ... so 
landuse=logging is not a good tag.  No mater how numerous the use of the 
tag.



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[Tagging] landuse=basin

[Warin]

Hi,

The presentOSM meaning of landuse=basin is "An area of land artificially 
graded to hold water."

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse%3Dbasin
This does not distinguishit from water=reservoir
OSM defined as 
 "A reservoir 
or artificial lake used to store water."

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:water%3Dreservoir


I think it should have the word "temporarily" add to read


"An area of land artificially graded to temporarilyhold water."


I see it as similar to the bathroom basin - it holds water, but not all 
the time.


Thoughts?
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - ephemeral -STOPPED

[Andrew Davidson]

On 18/07/18 13:02, Warin wrote:
Will restart after correction. 


I've just had another look at the text of the third vote:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Proposed_features/ephemeral&oldid=1628343#Optional_voting_on_requesting_mappers_to_add_intermittent.3Dyes_to_the_key_ephemeral

and I'm not sure I understand what we were supposed to be voting on. The 
explanatory test says:


"Vote here requesting mappers to add irregular=yes to the key ephemeral"

I can't find any mention of the irregular tag on the wiki. Was this an 
auto-correct error?




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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - ephemeral -STOPPED

[Warin]

On 18/07/18 17:44, Andrew Davidson wrote:

On 18/07/18 13:02, Warin wrote:
Will restart after correction. 


I've just had another look at the text of the third vote:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Proposed_features/ephemeral&oldid=1628343#Optional_voting_on_requesting_mappers_to_add_intermittent.3Dyes_to_the_key_ephemeral 



and I'm not sure I understand what we were supposed to be voting on. 
The explanatory test says:


"Vote here requesting mappers to add irregular=yes to the key ephemeral"

I can't find any mention of the irregular tag on the wiki. Was this an 
auto-correct error?


Agg. No. I must have missed it going to intermittent from irregular.

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Re: [Tagging] landuse=basin

[Christoph Hormann]

On Wednesday 18 July 2018, Warin wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The presentOSM meaning of landuse=basin is "An area of land
> artificially graded to hold water."
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse%3Dbasin
> This does not distinguishit from water=reservoir
> OSM defined as
>  "A
> reservoir or artificial lake used to store water."
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:water%3Dreservoir
>
>
> I think it should have the word "temporarily" add to read

That is not how the tag is used.

water=reservoir is primarily used for dammed rivers.  landuse=basin is 
mostly used for water areas created artificially where there was no 
pre-existing waterbody.  If in your area these are mostly temporarily 
water filled that is due to climate and not a universal characteristic.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - ephemeral -STOPPED

[François Lacombe]

Hi,

Sorry to wake up so late
I find the comment of Andrew about stream=* key very interesting.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:stream

Has it been discussed already?

I find it better than several keys

All the best

François

2018-07-18 9:50 GMT+02:00 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>:

> On 18/07/18 17:44, Andrew Davidson wrote:
>
>> On 18/07/18 13:02, Warin wrote:
>>
>>> Will restart after correction.
>>>
>>
>> I've just had another look at the text of the third vote:
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Proposed_
>> features/ephemeral&oldid=1628343#Optional_voting_on_
>> requesting_mappers_to_add_intermittent.3Dyes_to_the_key_ephemeral
>>
>> and I'm not sure I understand what we were supposed to be voting on. The
>> explanatory test says:
>>
>> "Vote here requesting mappers to add irregular=yes to the key ephemeral"
>>
>> I can't find any mention of the irregular tag on the wiki. Was this an
>> auto-correct error?
>>
>
> Agg. No. I must have missed it going to intermittent from irregular.
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - ephemeral -STOPPED

[Warin]

On 18/07/18 18:10, François Lacombe wrote:

Hi,

Sorry to wake up so late
I find the comment of Andrew about stream=* key very interesting.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:stream

Has it been discussed already?

I find it better than several keys


I'd agree .. except then there would be at least 2 more keys - for a 
river and a lake ..
It follows the syntax of the keys seasonal and intermittent that can be 
applied to any water body ..

Sorry ...


All the best

François

2018-07-18 9:50 GMT+02:00 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com 
>:


On 18/07/18 17:44, Andrew Davidson wrote:

On 18/07/18 13:02, Warin wrote:

Will restart after correction.


I've just had another look at the text of the third vote:


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Proposed_features/ephemeral&oldid=1628343#Optional_voting_on_requesting_mappers_to_add_intermittent.3Dyes_to_the_key_ephemeral




and I'm not sure I understand what we were supposed to be
voting on. The explanatory test says:

"Vote here requesting mappers to add irregular=yes to the key
ephemeral"

I can't find any mention of the irregular tag on the wiki. Was
this an auto-correct error?


Agg. No. I must have missed it going to intermittent from irregular.


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Re: [Tagging] landuse=basin

[Warin]

On 18/07/18 18:02, Christoph Hormann wrote:

On Wednesday 18 July 2018, Warin wrote:
Hi, The presentOSM meaning of landuse=basin is "An area of land 
artificially graded to hold water." 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse%3Dbasin This does not 
distinguishit from water=reservoir OSM defined as 
 "A 
reservoir or artificial lake used to store water." 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:water%3Dreservoir I think it 
should have the word "temporarily" add to read 
That is not how the tag is used. water=reservoir is primarily used for 
dammed rivers. landuse=basin is mostly used for water areas created 
artificially where there was no pre-existing waterbody. If in your 
area these are mostly temporarily water filled that is due to climate 
and not a universal characteristic.


A man made dam is artificial, creating an artificial water area where 
there was no large pre existing water body. Little difference. Some 
perceive a difference in scale?



Two of the sub tags under basin suggest temporary water:
basin=infiltration - catches storm water and allows it to seep into an 
aquifer
basin=detention - catches storm water and allows it to drain slowly into 
natural waterways
basin=retention - catches storm water and retains it, forming an 
artificial pond.


Only in the last case would there be water. So my idea fails there.
So what difference is there between the two? Your idea of reservoir, dam 
is for a natural water way prompts;
Perhaps that a basin is not part of the natural flow of water but part 
of the human drainage system?


That would be a clear difference between the two. Thanks.

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - ephemeral -STOPPED

[François Lacombe]

2018-07-18 10:19 GMT+02:00 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>:

> On 18/07/18 18:10, François Lacombe wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Sorry to wake up so late
> I find the comment of Andrew about stream=* key very interesting.
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:stream
>
> Has it been discussed already?
>
> I find it better than several keys
>
>
> I'd agree .. except then there would be at least 2 more keys - for a river
> and a lake ..
> It follows the syntax of the keys seasonal and intermittent that can be
> applied to any water body ..
> Sorry ...
>
Agree, and I understand that stream isn't the best suitable term to find a
common key for all waterways.

But from a conceptual point of view, if find better to group
intermittent/ephemeral or any other recurrent scheme in one single key.
What about flow=permanent(default), intermittent, ephemeral ?

All the best

François
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Re: [Tagging] landuse=basin

[Christoph Hormann]

On Wednesday 18 July 2018, Warin wrote:
> >
> > That is not how the tag is used. water=reservoir is primarily used
> > for dammed rivers. landuse=basin is mostly used for water areas
> > created artificially where there was no pre-existing waterbody. If
> > in your area these are mostly temporarily water filled that is due
> > to climate and not a universal characteristic.
>
> A man made dam is artificial, creating an artificial water area where
> there was no large pre existing water body. Little difference.

I don't want to judge this, i am just describing the difference in use.  
In humid climate many features tagged landuse=basin are permanently 
water filled, some are drained in winter or for maintainance purposes.

Further complicating the whole thing is that due to the unclear 
documentation including the reservoir_type=* tag water=reservoir is in 
addition used widely for any kind of waterbodies containing dirty water 
(tailings ponds, sewage treatment plants etc.) where there is obviously 
no pre-existing waterbody.  So you have two fairly unrelated 
applications of this.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - ephemeral -STOPPED

[Andrew Davidson]

On 18/07/18 18:10, François Lacombe wrote:

Has it been discussed already?


It was originally suggested by Tod Fitch:

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2018-May/036678.html

I suggested that persistence or permanence might be a more technically 
correct tag than presence:


https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2018-May/036794.html

It didn't get much of a response other than a comment that a new tag 
would be necessary:


https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2018-May/036798.html

and a question about what it would be used on:

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2018-May/036801.html

(watery things I would have assumed).

Then Tod wanted to generalise the tag to use on everything:

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2018-May/036804.html

which I answered with a plea of please no:

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2018-May/036808.html

to avoid another street vendor incident:

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2018-May/036497.html

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - ephemeral -STOPPED

[Andrew Davidson]

On 18/07/18 18:42, François Lacombe wrote:

What about flow=permanent(default), intermittent, ephemeral ?


Flow is not a good choice for a key as you can tag other hydrological 
features' permanence; such as lakes or wetlands, and these don't flow.


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Re: [Tagging] landuse=basin

[eric]

Hi Warin, 

I think landuse=basin is correct, because water=basin implies, for me at least, 
that there is normally water in it. While there are many basins that are 
normally dry. Here are several basins that are only filled during extreme rain 
events: 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=Parsberg#map=17/49.15540/11.70908

 

Eric

 

Von: Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. Juli 2018 09:42
An: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools 
Betreff: [Tagging] landuse=basin

 

Hi,

The present OSM meaning of landuse=basin is "An area of land artificially 
graded to hold water."
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse%3Dbasin
This does not distinguish it from water=reservoir
OSM defined as "A reservoir or artificial lake used to store water."
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:water%3Dreservoir


I think it should have the word "temporarily" add to read 


"An area of land artificially graded to temporarily hold water."


I see it as similar to the bathroom basin - it holds water, but not all the 
time. 

Thoughts? 

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - ephemeral -STOPPED

[François Lacombe]

2018-07-18 12:30 GMT+02:00 Andrew Davidson :

> On 18/07/18 18:42, François Lacombe wrote:
>
>> What about flow=permanent(default), intermittent, ephemeral ?
>>
>
> Flow is not a good choice for a key as you can tag other hydrological
> features' permanence; such as lakes or wetlands, and these don't flow.


Then, water_presence=permanent(default), intermittent, ephemeral, seasonal?
Obviously, I find water_ prefix redundant with waterway=*, but understand
that it may be necessarily.
I don't see any objection to such key in your story. Just "no particular
response".

It would allows us to merge intermittent=yes, seasonal=*, ephemeral=yes and
maybe more tags.

All the best

François
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Re: [Tagging] landuse=basin

[Warin]

On 18/07/18 18:02, Christoph Hormann wrote:

On Wednesday 18 July 2018, Warin wrote:
Hi, The presentOSM meaning of landuse=basin is "An area of land 
artificially graded to hold water." 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse%3Dbasin This does not 
distinguishit from water=reservoir OSM defined as 
 "A 
reservoir or artificial lake used to store water." 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:water%3Dreservoir I think it 
should have the word "temporarily" add to read 
That is not how the tag is used. water=reservoir is primarily used for 
dammed rivers. landuse=basin is mostly used for water areas created 
artificially where there was no pre-existing waterbody. If in your 
area these are mostly temporarily water filled that is due to climate 
and not a universal characteristic.




I think the distinction is that the basin is all formed by man, where as 
the reservoir has a man made dam and the rest is natural.


So I have added to the wiki descriptions to add the 'usual' way these 
things are formed/used. Present text and links below.



https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse%3Dbasin

An area of land artificially graded to hold water. Note that this 
definition includes also structures typically without water. Usually 
these features are made for man made water courses e.g. storm water, 
water treatment.



https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse%3Dreservoir

Man made body of stored water. May be covered or uncovered. Usually 
formed by a dam over a natural water course, water then backs up into a 
natural valley or depression.



https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:water%3Dreservoir

A reservoiror an artificial lake is used to store water. Usually formed 
by a dam over a natural water course, water then backs up into a natural 
valley or depression.






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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - ephemeral -STOPPED

[Warin]

On 19/07/18 02:04, François Lacombe wrote:


2018-07-18 12:30 GMT+02:00 Andrew Davidson >:


On 18/07/18 18:42, François Lacombe wrote:

What about flow=permanent(default), intermittent, ephemeral ?


Flow is not a good choice for a key as you can tag other
hydrological features' permanence; such as lakes or wetlands, and
these don't flow.


Then, water_presence=permanent(default), intermittent, ephemeral, 
seasonal?
Obviously, I find water_ prefix redundant with waterway=*, but 
understand that it may be necessarily.
I don't see any objection to such key in your story. Just "no 
particular response".


It would allows us to merge intermittent=yes, seasonal=*, 
ephemeral=yes and maybe more tags.




That does not allow for a combination .. e.g.

seasonal presence in winter
intermittent presence in spring;summer

The present practice of adding the tag intermittent to anything tagged 
seasonal does not help at all for any chance of combinations ... so OSM 
may as well abandon any hope of detailing any complex situation.



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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - ephemeral -STOPPED

[Warin]

On 19/07/18 10:17, Warin wrote:

On 19/07/18 02:04, François Lacombe wrote:


2018-07-18 12:30 GMT+02:00 Andrew Davidson >:


On 18/07/18 18:42, François Lacombe wrote:

What about flow=permanent(default), intermittent, ephemeral ?


Flow is not a good choice for a key as you can tag other
hydrological features' permanence; such as lakes or wetlands, and
these don't flow.


Then, water_presence=permanent(default), intermittent, ephemeral, 
seasonal?
Obviously, I find water_ prefix redundant with waterway=*, but 
understand that it may be necessarily.
I don't see any objection to such key in your story. Just "no 
particular response".


It would allows us to merge intermittent=yes, seasonal=*, 
ephemeral=yes and maybe more tags.




That does not allow for a combination .. e.g.

seasonal presence in winter
intermittent presence in spring;summer

The present practice of adding the tag intermittent to anything tagged 
seasonal does not help at all for any chance of combinations ... so 
OSM may as well abandon any hope of detailing any complex situation.





Humm how about
water_presence:permanent=yes/no . no would mean that the water feature 
no longer exists and is redundant. yes would be the default so does not 
need to be added .. so this tag is redundant itself.


water_presence:seasonal=yes/no/spring/summer/* no being the default.
water_presence:intermittent,=yes/no/spring/summer/* no being the default.
water_presence:ephemeral=yes/no/spring/summer/* no being the default.

That would allow for complex tagging ..

Examples ?
Something present seasonally during snow melt; 
water_presence:seasonal=snow_melt (spring would be the nearest tag on 
the wiki .. but we should tag the truth rather than conform to the wiki)
Something present ephemerally but only during the wet season; 
water_presence:ephemeral=wet_season

Something present intermittently; water_presence:intermittent,=yes

Something present seasonally during winter and intermittently at other 
times of the year;

water_presence:seasonal=winter
with
water_presence:intermittent,=yes (or spring;summer;autumn ?)




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[Tagging] building=clubhouse

[Warin]

Hi,

With the golfing thing that I have on another thread there is the 
tagging of golf=clubhouse suggested on a building=yes. That is specific 
to golf, what about other clubhouses?



Taginfo has uses of

557 building=clubhouse

479 golf=clubhouse

121 tennis:clubhouse=*

98 amenity=clubhouse

9 building=Clubhouse

6 designation=Clubhouse


That is some 1,200 uses. Not vast by any means .. but if a combined tag 
were created with good documentation and links then I'd thing the 
numbers would take off .. there are a lot of football clubs with club 
houses around me ... umm what are tagged as they now? building=yes by 
the look of things.



Would it not be best to combine all theses into building=clubhouse? Any 
associated sport could be specified with sport=*.



A description could be - "A building that supports a club by providing a 
social area, amenities and/or specific facilities to support the clubs 
activities."



I note that this was raised on the proposal of building .. but not taken 
up as 'pavilion' was pursued in its place.


See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/building


Thoughts?





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Re: [Tagging] building=clubhouse

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On 19 July 2018 at 13:15, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> With the golfing thing that I have on another thread there is the tagging
> of golf=clubhouse suggested on a building=yes. That is specific to golf,
> what about other clubhouses?
>
>
> That is some 1,200 uses. Not vast by any means .. but if a combined tag
> were created with good documentation and links then I'd thing the numbers
> would take off .. there are a lot of football clubs with club houses around
> me ... umm what are tagged as they now? building=yes by the look of things.
>
>
> Would it not be best to combine all theses into building=clubhouse? Any
> associated sport could be specified with sport=*.
>
>
> A description could be - "A building that supports a club by providing a
> social area, amenities and/or specific facilities to support the clubs
> activities."
>
>
> I note that this was raised on the proposal of building .. but not taken
> up as 'pavilion' was pursued in its place.
>
> See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/building
>
>
> Thoughts?
>

Not exactly clubhouse as such but did find
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:club a little while back, which
does also say

   - club=sport  +
   sport =*


Usable?
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Re: [Tagging] building=clubhouse

[osm.tagging]

Sounds like something that could be tagged *in addition* to building=clubhouse 
to provide more detail?

 

From: Graeme Fitzpatrick  
Sent: Thursday, 19 July 2018 13:41
To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools 
Subject: Re: [Tagging] building=clubhouse

 

Not exactly clubhouse as such but did find 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:club a little while back, which does 
also say  

* club=  sport +  
 sport=*

 

Usable?

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Re: [Tagging] building=clubhouse

[Marc Gemis]

for the complete "base" of the club, the club page [1] recommends

"The base of the club can be tagged amenity=community_centre with the
type community_centre=club_home and possibly the target group
community_centre:for=*; either on the containing building or the same
element as the club itself."


[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:club
On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 5:16 AM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> With the golfing thing that I have on another thread there is the
> tagging of golf=clubhouse suggested on a building=yes. That is specific
> to golf, what about other clubhouses?
>
>
> Taginfo has uses of
>
> 557 building=clubhouse
>
> 479 golf=clubhouse
>
> 121 tennis:clubhouse=*
>
> 98 amenity=clubhouse
>
> 9 building=Clubhouse
>
> 6 designation=Clubhouse
>
>
> That is some 1,200 uses. Not vast by any means .. but if a combined tag
> were created with good documentation and links then I'd thing the
> numbers would take off .. there are a lot of football clubs with club
> houses around me ... umm what are tagged as they now? building=yes by
> the look of things.
>
>
> Would it not be best to combine all theses into building=clubhouse? Any
> associated sport could be specified with sport=*.
>
>
> A description could be - "A building that supports a club by providing a
> social area, amenities and/or specific facilities to support the clubs
> activities."
>
>
> I note that this was raised on the proposal of building .. but not taken
> up as 'pavilion' was pursued in its place.
>
> See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/building
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

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Re: [Tagging] building=clubhouse

[Warin]

On 19/07/18 13:52, Marc Gemis wrote:
for the complete "base" of the club, the club page [1] recommends "The 
base of the club can be tagged amenity=community_centre with the type 
community_centre=club_home and possibly the target group 
community_centre:for=*; either on the containing building or the same 
element as the club itself."


It also says some thing about the grounds too ... so it may not be 
'just' the building.
Arr here it is "Draw an area area 
for the campus of the 
community centre, comprising buildings and outdoor areas."

link https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dcommunity_centre

So a golf course would have this tag around the entire ground .. not 
just the building. And that would be a duplication of leisure=golf_course.


I don't think that fits with golf courses .. and probably some other 
clubhouses. So that recommendation is not valid for golf at least.


And for tagging the club=* yes .. I would do that on a node not the 
building.. if necessary.
But I think anything I could place under the club tag I could also put 
under the building tag?

link https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:club


The subject is building = clubhouse ... ?

[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:club On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 
at 5:16 AM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, With the golfing thing that I have on another thread there is the 
tagging of golf=clubhouse suggested on a building=yes. That is 
specific to golf, what about other clubhouses? Taginfo has uses of 
557 building=clubhouse 479 golf=clubhouse 121 tennis:clubhouse=* 98 
amenity=clubhouse 9 building=Clubhouse 6 designation=Clubhouse That 
is some 1,200 uses. Not vast by any means .. but if a combined tag 
were created with good documentation and links then I'd thing the 
numbers would take off .. there are a lot of football clubs with club 
houses around me ... umm what are tagged as they now? building=yes by 
the look of things. Would it not be best to combine all theses into 
building=clubhouse? Any associated sport could be specified with 
sport=*. A description could be - "A building that supports a club by 
providing a social area, amenities and/or specific facilities to 
support the clubs activities." I note that this was raised on the 
proposal of building .. but not taken up as 'pavilion' was pursued in 
its place. See 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/building 
Thoughts? ___ Tagging 
mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging 
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Re: [Tagging] building=clubhouse

[Marc Gemis]

I just wanted to point out that there are multiple levels that have to be
mapped.

- the golf course ( this does not include buildings, parkings, ...)
- the buildings (some of which are clubhouses (can also be sheds, ...))
- the sport complex as a whole (the course + parking + buildings)
(leisure=golf_course)
- the club base, I wonder whether it is always the complete complex.

this applies to other sports as well. If you are improving the wiki page
for golf, IMHO it should mention those 4 items

Sorry if you think it is off-topic

On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 6:27 AM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 19/07/18 13:52, Marc Gemis wrote:
>
> for the complete "base" of the club, the club page [1] recommends "The
> base of the club can be tagged amenity=community_centre with the type
> community_centre=club_home and possibly the target group
> community_centre:for=*; either on the containing building or the same
> element as the club itself."
>
>
> It also says some thing about the grounds too ... so it may not be 'just'
> the building.
> Arr here it is "Draw an area [image: area]
>  for the campus of the
> community centre, comprising buildings and outdoor areas."
> link https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dcommunity_centre
>
> So a golf course would have this tag around the entire ground .. not just
> the building. And that would be a duplication of leisure=golf_course.
>
> I don't think that fits with golf courses .. and probably some other
> clubhouses. So that recommendation is not valid for golf at least.
>
> And for tagging the club=* yes .. I would do that on a node not the
> building.. if necessary.
> But I think anything I could place under the club tag I could also put
> under the building tag?
> link https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:club
>
>
> The subject is building = clubhouse ... ?
>
> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:club On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at
> 5:16 AM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi, With the golfing thing that I have on another thread there is the
> tagging of golf=clubhouse suggested on a building=yes. That is specific to
> golf, what about other clubhouses? Taginfo has uses of 557
> building=clubhouse 479 golf=clubhouse 121 tennis:clubhouse=* 98
> amenity=clubhouse 9 building=Clubhouse 6 designation=Clubhouse That is some
> 1,200 uses. Not vast by any means .. but if a combined tag were created
> with good documentation and links then I'd thing the numbers would take off
> .. there are a lot of football clubs with club houses around me ... umm
> what are tagged as they now? building=yes by the look of things. Would it
> not be best to combine all theses into building=clubhouse? Any associated
> sport could be specified with sport=*. A description could be - "A building
> that supports a club by providing a social area, amenities and/or specific
> facilities to support the clubs activities." I note that this was raised on
> the proposal of building .. but not taken up as 'pavilion' was pursued in
> its place. See
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/building Thoughts?
> ___ Tagging mailing list
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>
> ___ Tagging mailing list
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>
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [Tagging] building=clubhouse

[osm.tagging]

Personally, for a golf club, I would consider the “club base” the area that the 
clubhouse and related infrastructure is on only, not including the actual holes.

 

From: Marc Gemis  
Sent: Thursday, 19 July 2018 15:10
To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools 
Subject: Re: [Tagging] building=clubhouse

 

I just wanted to point out that there are multiple levels that have to be 
mapped. 

 

- the golf course ( this does not include buildings, parkings, ...)

- the buildings (some of which are clubhouses (can also be sheds, ...))

- the sport complex as a whole (the course + parking + buildings)  
(leisure=golf_course)

- the club base, I wonder whether it is always the complete complex.

 

this applies to other sports as well. If you are improving the wiki page for 
golf, IMHO it should mention those 4 items 

 

Sorry if you think it is off-topic

 

On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 6:27 AM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com 
 > wrote:

On 19/07/18 13:52, Marc Gemis wrote:

for the complete "base" of the club, the club page [1] recommends "The base of 
the club can be tagged amenity=community_centre with the type 
community_centre=club_home and possibly the target group 
community_centre:for=*; either on the containing building or the same element 
as the club itself."


It also says some thing about the grounds too ... so it may not be 'just' the 
building. 
Arr here it is "Draw an area   for 
the campus of the community centre, comprising buildings and outdoor areas."
link https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dcommunity_centre

So a golf course would have this tag around the entire ground .. not just the 
building. And that would be a duplication of leisure=golf_course. 

I don't think that fits with golf courses .. and probably some other 
clubhouses. So that recommendation is not valid for golf at least.
 
And for tagging the club=* yes .. I would do that on a node not the building.. 
if necessary. 
But I think anything I could place under the club tag I could also put under 
the building tag?  
link https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:club


The subject is building = clubhouse ... ? 




[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:club On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 5:16 
AM Warin   <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: 

Hi, With the golfing thing that I have on another thread there is the tagging 
of golf=clubhouse suggested on a building=yes. That is specific to golf, what 
about other clubhouses? Taginfo has uses of 557 building=clubhouse 479 
golf=clubhouse 121 tennis:clubhouse=* 98 amenity=clubhouse 9 building=Clubhouse 
6 designation=Clubhouse That is some 1,200 uses. Not vast by any means .. but 
if a combined tag were created with good documentation and links then I'd thing 
the numbers would take off .. there are a lot of football clubs with club 
houses around me ... umm what are tagged as they now? building=yes by the look 
of things. Would it not be best to combine all theses into building=clubhouse? 
Any associated sport could be specified with sport=*. A description could be - 
"A building that supports a club by providing a social area, amenities and/or 
specific facilities to support the clubs activities." I note that this was 
raised on the proposal of building .. but not taken up as 'pavilion' was 
pursued in its place. See 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/building Thoughts? 
___ Tagging mailing list 
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Re: [Tagging] building=clubhouse

[Warin]

On 19/07/18 15:10, Marc Gemis wrote:
I just wanted to point out that there are multiple levels that have to 
be mapped.


- the golf course ( this does not include buildings, parkings, ...)
- the buildings (some of which are clubhouses (can also be sheds, ...))
- the sport complex as a whole (the course + parking + buildings)  
(leisure=golf_course)

- the club base, I wonder whether it is always the complete complex.

this applies to other sports as well. If you are improving the wiki 
page for golf, IMHO it should mention those 4 items


Sorry if you think it is off-topic


It is a side issue to 'clubhouse'.
The golf thing put me on to the 'clubhouse' issue. I don't want to 
further subdivide my attention/time into too many issues :)

There are, as you say, multiple levels (multiple orders?) to be mapped. :(
Getting one of them better is a goal here.



On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 6:27 AM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com 
> wrote:


On 19/07/18 13:52, Marc Gemis wrote:

for the complete "base" of the club, the club page [1] recommends
"The base of the club can be tagged amenity=community_centre with
the type community_centre=club_home and possibly the target group
community_centre:for=*; either on the containing building or the
same element as the club itself."


It also says some thing about the grounds too ... so it may not be
'just' the building.
Arr here it is "Draw an area area
for the campus of the
community centre, comprising buildings and outdoor areas."
link
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dcommunity_centre

So a golf course would have this tag around the entire ground ..
not just the building. And that would be a duplication of
leisure=golf_course.

I don't think that fits with golf courses .. and probably some
other clubhouses. So that recommendation is not valid for golf at
least.

And for tagging the club=* yes .. I would do that on a node not
the building.. if necessary.
But I think anything I could place under the club tag I could also
put under the building tag?
link https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:club


The subject is building = clubhouse ... ?


[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:club On Thu, Jul 19,
2018 at 5:16 AM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>
 wrote:

Hi, With the golfing thing that I have on another thread there
is the tagging of golf=clubhouse suggested on a building=yes.
That is specific to golf, what about other clubhouses? Taginfo
has uses of 557 building=clubhouse 479 golf=clubhouse 121
tennis:clubhouse=* 98 amenity=clubhouse 9 building=Clubhouse 6
designation=Clubhouse That is some 1,200 uses. Not vast by any
means .. but if a combined tag were created with good
documentation and links then I'd thing the numbers would take
off .. there are a lot of football clubs with club houses around
me ... umm what are tagged as they now? building=yes by the look
of things. Would it not be best to combine all theses into
building=clubhouse? Any associated sport could be specified with
sport=*. A description could be - "A building that supports a
club by providing a social area, amenities and/or specific
facilities to support the clubs activities." I note that this
was raised on the proposal of building .. but not taken up as
'pavilion' was pursued in its place. See
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/building
Thoughts? ___
Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging 

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[Tagging] Route maintenance tagging

[Peter Elderson]

I would like some thoughts on the idea of tagging route maintenance. Long
hiking & cycling routes need regular maintenance. On the road, of course,
which is not our problem, but as a consequence they need re-surveying and
adapting the route relations to reality.

I am looking for a systematic approach to check all routes (in a particular
area) for need of maintenance.

Recording the date of the last survey in the route relation would allow
generation of a survey calendar. Not future survey, but actually performed
survey, of course. An ordered list would allow a choice of where to use
your effort most effectively.

This would also enable the operators of the routes to record and plan
systematic survey. At t he moment, some operators perform some systematic
surveys of some routes, but the majority is incident-driven, resulting in a
generally deplorable state of affairs...


Anyway, I think a simple note would not do the trick. How about a key
survey with subkeys survey:date, survey:result, survey:operator,
survey:note, 

-- 
Vr gr Peter Elderson
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Re: [Tagging] landuse=basin

[Mateusz Konieczny]

18. Lipiec 2018 16:02 od e...@eric-poehlsen.de :


>
> The present OSM meaning of landuse=basin is "An area of land artificially 
> graded to hold water."
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse%3Dbasin 
> 
> This does not distinguish it from water=reservoir
> OSM defined as "A reservoir or artificial lake used to store water."
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:water%3Dreservoir 
> 
>
>
> I think it should have the word "temporarily" add to read 
>
>
> "An area of land artificially graded to temporarily hold water."
>
>
> I see it as similar to the bathroom basin - it holds water, but not all the 
> time. 
>
> Thoughts? 
>




Have you checked what is mapped? If mappers use both tags in the same way then 


redefining them on wiki without resurveying most of them is pointless.

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