Re: [Tagging] maxweight=* specified for different axle counts
Based on the documentation for conditional tags, I would say: maxweight=10 st maxweight:conditional=17 st @ (axles >= 4), 16 st @ (axles = 3) it’s best to put the lowest limit as default into the non-conditional tag, so that if a software doesn’t or can’t parse the conditional tag it’s not going to exceed the limit, no matter what the situation. From: David Wang Sent: Thursday, 14 June 2018 07:41 To: tagging@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Tagging] maxweight=* specified for different axle counts What is the best way to specify the maximum weight when a sign specifies different weights for different axle counts? The situation in question is here: https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/VMM_wbgzcm1jFm_APKhQww For those who cannot see the image, the sign says : WEIGHT LIMIT : 2 axle - 10 tons : 3 axle - 16 tons : 4 axle + - 17 tons (“tons” in this case means “short tons”, as it is in the US) I went through the Tagging list archives and found a thread from Dec 2015/Jan 2016, with the subject “Specifying maxweight, when different weight limits are signed” (starting here: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2015-December/027931.html and here: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2016-January/027975.html) My problem is that placing “maxweight=10 st” and “maxweight=17 st” are both not true to the information on the ground, plus info is lost. One solution proposed in the above thread is to find the weight borne per axle and then use the most restrictive weight, as in (17 st)/(4 axles)=4.25 st/axle, tagged as “maxaxleload=4.25 st”. Unfortunately, the last is 4+ axles, meaning that with multiple axles, the maximum load per axle goes to zero, so this does not work. Another solution was to use the access keys as suffixes on the maxweight key, as in “maxweight:hgv” and “maxweight:bus”, to specify the maximum weight. However, I find this solution clunky. It also doesn’t address the fact that some vehicles can have different axle counts, for example an HGV can have anywhere from two to five axles. I feel this situation might need a new suffix at the very least (“maxweight:axles:#=*” ?), but it’s definitely up to comment. Thanks, David ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Street exits
In Nederland we have a growing number of "exit constructions", where traffic has to cross a section of sidewalk to join the larger road. There is no traffic sign for this, it is indicated by the construction and lining of the join section. "If it looks like a driveway exit, treat it like a driveway exit" is the idea. Don't bother with signs, just use more sidewalk pavement. https://www.google.nl/maps/@51.9663779,4.6074315,3a,75y,14.43h,78.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8uG7mHF9cw2n65XprKze0w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 This has (legal and practical) implications for speed and right of way: traffic coming from an exit construction has to give way to all sides, to all traffic including pedestrians, and maxspeed = 15 Kmph. Some mappers want to tag this so it could be rendered and routed taking speed limit and right of way into account. The easiest solution is to tag the end of the joining road (where traffic crosses the sidewalk) with an exiting or new highway tag, defining it as a section which can be crossed (and routed) but has to give way to all, and limits speed. Any thoughts on this? -- Vr gr Peter Elderson ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Street exits
sent from a phone > On 15. Jun 2018, at 08:04, Peter Elderson wrote: > > "If it looks like a driveway exit, treat it like a driveway exit" is the > idea. Don't bother with signs, just use more sidewalk pavement. For me this piece of street does not look like a driveway, I would call it a residential street. In Germany it would probably be a living street. Are there particular rules implied by the paving? Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Street exits
Sorry if I've misunderstood Peter, but is there any difference between this & a normal driveway? Thanks Graeme ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Street exits
If you follow the road in SV, you can see that it’s a normal road with it’s own name, and connections to other roads. My first impulse was also “if it’s treated like a driveway, tag it as a driveway”, but it clearly isn’t one once you are actually in the road. It’s only the part where it connected to the other road “like a driveway” instead of like a normal road. From: Graeme Fitzpatrick Sent: Friday, 15 June 2018 16:18 To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools Subject: Re: [Tagging] Street exits Sorry if I've misunderstood Peter, but is there any difference between this & a normal driveway? Thanks Graeme ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Street exits
The street is residential, but the exit is over a sidewalk, with a dropped curb. That's the piece I'm talking about: not the street, just the exit. Rules (legally) implied are that traffic can pass over this sidewalk, but has to give way to all sides and all others including pedestrians. Speed is limited to 15 Kmph (living_street rules). 2018-06-15 8:16 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer : > > > sent from a phone > > > On 15. Jun 2018, at 08:04, Peter Elderson wrote: > > > > "If it looks like a driveway exit, treat it like a driveway exit" is the > idea. Don't bother with signs, just use more sidewalk pavement. > > > For me this piece of street does not look like a driveway, I would call it > a residential street. In Germany it would probably be a living street. > > Are there particular rules implied by the paving? > > Cheers, > Martin > > > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > -- Vr gr Peter Elderson ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Street exits
Driveway is to and from a private property, I think? The difference is that this exit is from a public street with normal traffic. Routable. 2018-06-15 8:17 GMT+02:00 Graeme Fitzpatrick : > Sorry if I've misunderstood Peter, but is there any difference between > this & a normal driveway? > > Thanks > > Graeme > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > -- Vr gr Peter Elderson ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Street exits
A quick search shows that it's probably not a "living street", as the concept does exist in the Netherlands, but does require explicit signs like in Germany: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woonerf Also, in my experience "living streets" usually lack a clear kerb and distinction between road and sidewalk, which this street has if you follow it. > -Original Message- > From: Martin Koppenhoefer > Sent: Friday, 15 June 2018 16:17 > To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools > > Subject: Re: [Tagging] Street exits > > > > sent from a phone > > > On 15. Jun 2018, at 08:04, Peter Elderson > wrote: > > > > "If it looks like a driveway exit, treat it like a driveway exit" > is the idea. Don't bother with signs, just use more sidewalk > pavement. > > > For me this piece of street does not look like a driveway, I would > call it a residential street. In Germany it would probably be a > living street. > > Are there particular rules implied by the paving? > > Cheers, > Martin > > > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Street exits
Where is the maxspeed 15 km/h, only on the crossing with the sidewalk ? Then that is similar to traffic calming tables in Belgium, where the max speed is also lower. I would just map a point on the road with highway=crossing; crossing="dutch_exit_construction_type". and perhaps a small segment of the road with surface=paving_stones; maxspeed=15 and a highway=give_way node next to the crossing node. In Belgium you are supposed to stop at each highway=crossing and give way to the pedestrians waiting to cross the street. So the give way to pedestrians is somehow implied by the crossing. m On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 8:05 AM Peter Elderson wrote: > > In Nederland we have a growing number of "exit constructions", where traffic > has to cross a section of sidewalk to join the larger road. There is no > traffic sign for this, it is indicated by the construction and lining of the > join section. "If it looks like a driveway exit, treat it like a driveway > exit" is the idea. Don't bother with signs, just use more sidewalk pavement. > > https://www.google.nl/maps/@51.9663779,4.6074315,3a,75y,14.43h,78.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8uG7mHF9cw2n65XprKze0w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 > > > This has (legal and practical) implications for speed and right of way: > traffic coming from an exit construction has to give way to all sides, to all > traffic including pedestrians, and maxspeed = 15 Kmph. > > Some mappers want to tag this so it could be rendered and routed taking speed > limit and right of way into account. > > The easiest solution is to tag the end of the joining road (where traffic > crosses the sidewalk) with an exiting or new highway tag, defining it as a > section which can be crossed (and routed) but has to give way to all, and > limits speed. > > Any thoughts on this? > > -- > Vr gr Peter Elderson > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Street exits
From: Peter Elderson Sent: Friday, 15 June 2018 16:29 To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools Subject: Re: [Tagging] Street exits The street is residential, but the exit is over a sidewalk, with a dropped curb. That's the piece I'm talking about: not the street, just the exit. Rules (legally) implied are that traffic can pass over this sidewalk, but has to give way to all sides and all others including pedestrians. Speed is limited to 15 Kmph (living_street rules). Only for that part where it crosses the sidewalk, or for the whole street behind it? As I’m normally mapping the kerb lines (way along the position of the kerb, with barrier=kerb and kerb=raised/lowered/rolled/flush) I would in this place have the highway crossing that kerb line, and would create an intersecting node (again tagged as barrier=kerb, kerb=lowered) (the same as when I’m mapping individual driveways, see: https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=21/-27.21152/153.02620 ). But not everyone wants to map to this level of detail. Maybe just a single barrier=kerb, kerb=lowered node on the highway to indicate that it has to cross the kerb? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
