Re: [Tagging] landcover=trees definition

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Am 10.08.2015 um 12:29 schrieb Jean-Marc Liotier :
> 
> To me, it seems that mapping this area as a combination of 
> landuse=residential and landcover=grass would be most fitting.



just do it


> I have thought about using the landuse=residential + natural=grass 
> combination instead, but those lawns do not strike me as natural.


I think that "natural" should not be read as "made by mother nature" but rather 
as some kind of typically natural feature (in particular things that can be 
seen as named entity, like a lake, a "piece of forest" that has a name, a 
spring, a peak, a bay, a beach, a dune, a tree, a ridge, a mountain pass, an 
island, a vulcano ... and these can also be nested), and these could also be 
man made in exceptional cases (like an artificial hill could get a natural=peak 
the same as a natural hill). Unfortunately some values have been more or less 
established, since I came up with this idea, that don't fit into this way of 
reading it, in particular grass, mud, sand, but would fit into landcover, and 
"water" was already an odd one (but with water=x refinement it does fit). So 
maybe natural has realistically to be seen as a mix of different concepts 
(could be sorted in preprocessing according to the value).

For not very high scale mapping, secondary (and tertiary?) landcovers might add 
further detail (like trees and what grows below them, or grassland with 
scattered bushes and trees where you don't want to map single trees and bushes).



> 
> What do you all think ? Is this a good illustration of the need for 
> landcover=* ?


parks, especially the bigger ones, are also good examples, where people like to 
micromap, and where it's hard to sustain that every group of trees is a little 
forest ;-)


cheers,
Martin 
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[Tagging] Mapping overlapping Pedestrian areas?

[johnw]

Places where Pedestrian areas overlap are very difficult for me to map and also 
render very badly.

I was wondering if someone has some suggestions on how to map this area 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=19/35.77740/140.31301 


This is Narita Station West Exit, with a big loop road, with a pedestrian area 
around it (layer 1) , adjacent to a 2 story bicycle parking structure. 

On top of the structure is a large pedestrian area that overlaps the lower one, 
as well as the street. (layer 2) 

and up another flight of stairs to the northeast from the 2nd pedestrian level 
is the actual station (it is all built against a hill) 

between the overlapping ped areas that don’t like to render well, or render as 
bridges, and with footpath access tunnels through he bike structure for the 
stairs and elevator, and the lack of a “parking structure” entrance/exit for 
bike structures, and the lack of a multi-storey subkey for bike parking (only 
present in presets for car parking - almost every big station has a 
multi-storey bike parking structure under elevated tracks - even my school has 
a free-standing two story bike parking structure) makes everything about this 
place confusing for tagging - beyond what nodes for building edges get shared 
and not shared, which I’m still struggling with. 

I mapped the overlappign part of the ped area as a way with bridge=yes so it 
overlaps somewhat corectly, but it doesn’t match the actual area.

Mapion maps it quite well, but they don’t bother to map the ped areas on the 
ground whatsoever. the color shift is to represent different address blocks. 
http://sasp.mapion.co.jp/cm/jreast/?icon=jreast|140.19.0.0%2c35.46.27.0&scl=3000
 

 

any advice for:

- dealing with the overlapping ped area that doesn’t play well with others

- dealing with shared nodes between the layers when they share a common wall, 
but not common height

- dealing with bicycle parking as a multi-storey structure with entrances 
similar to a car parking garage (but absolutely not for cars). Are the car 
subtag values also valid? 

This parking structure entrance (north)
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.778165,140.313204,3a,45.3y,107.88h,84.89t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sOix-kpodU98lgaWkG1oVwA!2e0
 


my local train station bicycle parking
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.410713,139.333553,3a,55.4y,72.49h,88.9t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sm56cVOh3YzHbFcjB_TE_0A!2e0
 


My school’s free-standing multi-storey bicycle parking structure 
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.408608,139.335244,3a,55.4y,248.58h,96.34t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1st4sFdtD9bSw2N0OY9PCt6A!2e0
 

 

Thanks for your help in advance.

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[Tagging] Help undoing an admin level 3 edit to Japan

[johnw]

A few months ago, someone enabled admin level 3 on regional boundaries in 
Japan. 

This is an error, but I don’t know how to deal with it. 

Admin level 3 boundaries are reserved for future for “states” of Japan. The 
regions currently have historical names, but just like “So-cal” or “New 
England” in the US, they are popular but administratively meaningless names, so 
they are not supposed to be used for any admin level. 

Japan has prefectures (provinces) - which are admin level 4, and are currently 
the highest order political boundaries in Japan. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefectures_of_Japan 

("Japan's 47 prefectures form the country's first jurisdiction and 
administrative division levels.”)

Someone outside of Japan came along and changed it, even through it is against 
the information provided on the OSM wiki for Japan. 

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Japan_tagging#Boundary 


Japan is currently debating the creation of states by combining the tiny 
prefectures (probably in the next 20 years, as the population shrinks outside 
Tokyo) - but nothing is decided yet.

http://www.clair.or.jp/j/forum/honyaku/hikaku/pdf/up-to-date_en3.pdf 
 (scroll 
to the end for maps)

Japan is the same size as California, and California has about the same number 
of counties as Japan has prefectures. They are really small. 


I am very uncomfortable changing admin settings for a whole country,and have 
never used the boundary tag, so I’m asking someone to go and remove the admin 
level 3 tags from the regions. It presents political boundaries that don’t 
exist. 

Would someone please remove these erroneous edits? 

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Re: [Tagging] Help undoing an admin level 3 edit to Japan

[Andy Townsend]

On 11/08/2015 12:30, johnw wrote:
A few months ago, someone enabled admin level 3 on regional boundaries 
in Japan.


This is an error, but I don’t know how to deal with it.



The first thing that I'd do would be to find the change that introduced 
the problem, identify the mapper concerned (which can be tricky where 
there are lots of changes) and explain to them (via a changeset 
discussion comment is often best, because it's public) why what they did 
was incorrect.  From there I'd link to where the Japanese community 
discusses boundaries (which might be the wiki, but often is somewhere else).


You can use this to look at the history of relations:

http://osm.mapki.com/history/relation.php?id=1803923

and if the changeset concerned is (as it appears to be at first glance) 
this one:


http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/22663880

you can mention something about "accurate changeset comments" too :)

It's also perhaps worth mentioning this sub-forum:

http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=29724

where as well as international boundaries, problems caused by other 
boundaries are also sometimes discussed.


Cheers,

Andy

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Re: [Tagging] Help undoing an admin level 3 edit to Japan

[John Willis]

> On Aug 11, 2015, at 9:35 PM, Andy Townsend  wrote:
> 
> From there I'd link to where the Japanese community discusses boundaries 
> (which might be the wiki, but often is somewhere else).

Thanks for the help Andy I'll look over it in the morning. ^^

The only "official" thing I have, and where I got the information for the admin 
level, is the wiki page I linked to for Japan tagging. 

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Japan_tagging#Boundary

Thanks again for the links!

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[Tagging] Sidewalk=none vs sidewalk=no

[Andrew MacKinnon]

Which is better, sidewalk=none or sidewalk=no? It seems like none is
more popular but no probably makes more sense because it is similar to
the tagging schemes used for other things like foot=no and bicycle=no.

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Re: [Tagging] Mapping overlapping Pedestrian areas?

[Dave F.]

Hi

I presume the upper levels have a protective barrier such as a wall. 
Would that help?


I've mapped a bridge as pedestrian area (closed way + area=yes) 
Unfortunately some entities below render through. Try it out - see if it 
works


Dave F.

On 11/08/2015 11:41, johnw wrote:
Places where Pedestrian areas overlap are very difficult for me to map 
and also render very badly.


I was wondering if someone has some suggestions on how to map this area
https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=19/35.77740/140.31301

This is Narita Station West Exit, with a big loop road, with a 
pedestrian area around it (layer 1) , adjacent to a 2 story bicycle 
parking structure.


On top of the structure is a large pedestrian area that overlaps the 
lower one, as well as the street. (layer 2)


and up another flight of stairs to the northeast from the 2nd 
pedestrian level is the actual station (it is all built against a hill)


between the overlapping ped areas that don’t like to render well, or 
render as bridges, and with footpath access tunnels through he bike 
structure for the stairs and elevator, and the lack of a “parking 
structure” entrance/exit for bike structures, and the lack of a 
multi-storey subkey for bike parking (only present in presets for car 
parking - almost every big station has a multi-storey bike parking 
structure under elevated tracks - even my school has a free-standing 
two story bike parking structure) makes everything about this place 
confusing for tagging - beyond what nodes for building edges get 
shared and not shared, which I’m still struggling with.


I mapped the overlappign part of the ped area as a way with bridge=yes 
so it overlaps somewhat corectly, but it doesn’t match the actual area.


Mapion maps it quite well, but they don’t bother to map the ped areas 
on the ground whatsoever. the color shift is to represent different 
address blocks.
http://sasp.mapion.co.jp/cm/jreast/?icon=jreast|140.19.0.0%2c35.46.27.0&scl=3000 
 



any advice for:

- dealing with the overlapping ped area that doesn’t play well with others

- dealing with shared nodes between the layers when they share a 
common wall, but not common height


- dealing with bicycle parking as a multi-storey structure with 
entrances similar to a car parking garage (but absolutely not for 
cars). Are the car subtag values also valid?


This parking structure entrance (north)
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.778165,140.313204,3a,45.3y,107.88h,84.89t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sOix-kpodU98lgaWkG1oVwA!2e0 



my local train station bicycle parking
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.410713,139.333553,3a,55.4y,72.49h,88.9t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sm56cVOh3YzHbFcjB_TE_0A!2e0 



My school’s free-standing multi-storey bicycle parking structure
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.408608,139.335244,3a,55.4y,248.58h,96.34t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1st4sFdtD9bSw2N0OY9PCt6A!2e0 
 



Thanks for your help in advance.

Javbw


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Re: [Tagging] Sidewalk=none vs sidewalk=no

[Clifford Snow]

On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 8:05 AM, Andrew MacKinnon 
wrote:

> Which is better, sidewalk=none or sidewalk=no? It seems like none is
> more popular but no probably makes more sense because it is similar to
> the tagging schemes used for other things like foot=no and bicycle=no.
>

Personally I prefer sidewalk=none. No implies not allowed where none just
means that sidewalks do not exist on either side of the highway. The wiki
does say that 'no' is preferred without giving a reason. No does make sense
if permissions were involved as foot=no or bicycle=no.

If nothing else, Taginfo has 'none' as the overwhelming choice.

Clifford


-- 
@osm_seattle
osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
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Re: [Tagging] life ring or life preserver

[John Eldredge]

Some of the Sherlock Holmes stories make reference to a type of weapon 
called a life preserver, what an American would call a blackjack or cosh. 
Is that usage of "life preserver" now archaic in British speech?


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On August 9, 2015 2:05:14 AM Andreas Goss  wrote:


http://talk-gb.openstreetmap.narkive.com/hXPJNpfG/life-ring-british-english

British English: lifebelt

American English: lifebuoy

German English: lifering
__
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wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88‎


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Re: [Tagging] life ring or life preserver

[jonathan]

Yes






Jonathan
http://bigfatfrog67.me





From: John Eldredge
Sent: ‎Tuesday‎, ‎11‎ ‎August‎ ‎2015 ‎22‎:‎30
To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools





Some of the Sherlock Holmes stories make reference to a type of weapon 
called a life preserver, what an American would call a blackjack or cosh. 
Is that usage of "life preserver" now archaic in British speech?

-- 
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.



On August 9, 2015 2:05:14 AM Andreas Goss  wrote:

> http://talk-gb.openstreetmap.narkive.com/hXPJNpfG/life-ring-british-english
>
> British English: lifebelt
>
> American English: lifebuoy
>
> German English: lifering
> __
> openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88
> wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88‎
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Mapping overlapping Pedestrian areas?

[John Willis]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 12, 2015, at 12:49 AM, Dave F.  wrote:
> 
> I've mapped a bridge as pedestrian area (closed way + area=yes)

Does this work for the entire pedestrian area - the overhanging bridge part and 
part that is the "roof" of another building in a single way, or do i need to 
split it up? 
Would the building below and the pedestrian area below share nodes if they 
share a common wall (with different layer=*tags?)
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Re: [Tagging] Help undoing an admin level 3 edit to Japan

[Satoshi IIDA]

Hello,

+1 to Javbw. I'm completely same opinion & feeling of you.

"admin_level=3" is reserved bit for future "state".
I guess Japanese community has consensus on it, and AFAIK there was no
further discussion had be done.

I've took a look on "admin_level=3" edits.
Mainly done by him.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/etajin

sample.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/532759

He did many boundary & place & national park edits,
including some mistakes.

I had contacted him once via changeset comment, but I could not have
response.
(He can read Japanese, and meybe English.)

I'll mention this issue to talk-ja.
If you could got response from him, please tell us.

Regards,



2015-08-11 22:25 GMT+09:00 John Willis :

>
>
>
> On Aug 11, 2015, at 9:35 PM, Andy Townsend  wrote:
>
> From there I'd link to where the Japanese community discusses boundaries
> (which might be the wiki, but often is somewhere else).
>
>
> Thanks for the help Andy I'll look over it in the morning. ^^
>
> The only "official" thing I have, and where I got the information for the
> admin level, is the wiki page I linked to for Japan tagging.
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Japan_tagging#Boundary
>
> Thanks again for the links!
>
> Javbw
>
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>


-- 
Satoshi IIDA
mail: nyamp...@gmail.com
twitter: @nyampire
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