Re: [Tagging] Tag approval process or its absence (was: Voting for Relation type=waterway)
Hi 2012/2/21 Frederik Ramm : > Hi, > > > On 02/20/2012 10:59 PM, LM_1 wrote: >> >> The possibility of free tags is great, but once some tagging style >> proves as usable (and better than any other), > > > ... which will never be the case ... I know, it is a kind of ideal state, the closer we are to it, the better. > > >> it should become a >> standard and used exclusively > > > ... in which geographic / cultural region? In all of them. Lukáš Matějka ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tag approval process or its absence (was: Voting for Relation type=waterway)
Hi, On 02/21/12 10:18, LM_1 wrote: The possibility of free tags is great, but once some tagging style proves as usable (and better than any other), ... which will never be the case ... I know, it is a kind of ideal state, the closer we are to it, the better. I don't think so. I don't think there is one general tagging style that is better for everyone. it should become a standard and used exclusively ... in which geographic / cultural region? In all of them. I don't think that a tagging style that works best in Europe will automatically also be the one that works best in South America. Any attempt to force everyone to use the same style will automatically make the map *less* good in some places. I think that it is one of the great strengths of OSM that we can allow people to map what is good for them locally, and we should not throw that away just because some programmer somewhere finds it easier to roll out his iPhone app if tags are synchronized the world over! Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tag approval process or its absence (was: Voting for Relation type=waterway)
2012/2/21 Frederik Ramm > > I don't think that a tagging style that works best in Europe will > automatically also be the one that works best in South America. Any attempt > to force everyone to use the same style will automatically make the map > *less* good in some places. I think that it is one of the great strengths > of OSM that we can allow people to map what is good for them locally, and > we should not throw that away just because some programmer somewhere finds > it easier to roll out his iPhone app if tags are synchronized the world > over! > > And if there's three or four different tagging schemes for the same thing in the same country? Changing in quantity, genre or spelling for instance. > > Bye > Frederik > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Voting for Relation type=waterway
On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 10:37 PM, Steve Bennett wrote: > - Approval does not imply enforcement. I don't know why you'd think > that. Just because we have rules doesn't mean anyone particularly > "enforces" them. You can always claim that every one is free to use his own rules. But once a tag is "approved" and is documented as such on the wiki, it is usually followed later by the contributors, by the data consumers and by the editors presets. And if someone is trying to use his own/different rule, he will be quickly corrected by someone else. You are right. It is not "enforcement", It's a nice illusion of freedom. Pieren ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tag approval process or its absence (was: Voting for Relation type=waterway)
On 21/02/12 09:45, Frederik Ramm wrote: I don't think that a tagging style that works best in Europe will automatically also be the one that works best in South America. Any attempt to force everyone to use the same style will automatically make the map *less* good in some places. I think that it is one of the great strengths of OSM that we can allow people to map what is good for them locally, and we should not throw that away just because some programmer somewhere finds it easier to roll out his iPhone app if tags are synchronized the world over! +1 -- Cheers, Chris user: chillly ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tag approval process or its absence (was: Voting for Relation type=waterway)
On 21/02/12 09:50, sabas88 wrote: 2012/2/21 Frederik Ramm mailto:frede...@remote.org>> I don't think that a tagging style that works best in Europe will automatically also be the one that works best in South America. Any attempt to force everyone to use the same style will automatically make the map *less* good in some places. I think that it is one of the great strengths of OSM that we can allow people to map what is good for them locally, and we should not throw that away just because some programmer somewhere finds it easier to roll out his iPhone app if tags are synchronized the world over! And if there's three or four different tagging schemes for the same thing in the same country? Changing in quantity, genre or spelling for instance. These schemes will not spontaneously appear, they take time and I'm sure that there will be enough people on this list to point out the error of heading down that path. :-) -- Cheers, Chris user: chillly ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Custom mailboxes
On 2/20/2012 1:05 PM, Peter Wendorff wrote: Hi. If it's an artwork, I would tag it as an artwork. If it's a landmark (yes, that IS possible - if I think e.g. about some areas in Sweden), I would probably tag as something like that For that matter, how would I tag a mailbox in general? Not necessarily a personal single-property box (though this could be useful if it's across the street from the property), but some neighborhoods have centralized mailboxes instead of one at each driveway (e.g. http://g.co/maps/rz2ur ). It's not really an amenity=post_box. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Custom mailboxes
Am 21. Februar 2012 16:48 schrieb Nathan Edgars II : > On 2/20/2012 1:05 PM, Peter Wendorff wrote: >> If it's an artwork, I would tag it as an artwork. +1 (IMHO no need to add tourism=artwort though) > For that matter, how would I tag a mailbox in general? Not necessarily a > personal single-property box (though this could be useful if it's across the > street from the property), but some neighborhoods have centralized mailboxes > instead of one at each driveway (e.g. http://g.co/maps/rz2ur ). It's not > really an amenity=post_box. +1. it is not an amenity=post_box What about amenity=mailbox? If you fear ambiguity it could also be amenity=private_mailbox (maybe also this might be read as public mailbox operated by a private company in areas where postal services are public). cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Voting for Relation type=waterway
* John F. Eldredge [2012-02-19 14:13 -0600]: > I take it, then, that there are some watercourses tagged as streams, but > named XXX River, and there are some watercourses tagged as rivers, but > named XXX Stream or XXX Creek? It's what I've done, based on my understanding of the tag documentations in the wiki. So I've done things like tagging the headwaters of the Potomac River[0] as waterway=stream and tagging the quite broad Willis Creek[1] as waterway=river. [0] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.20647&lon=-79.47779&zoom=16&layers=M [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.6956&lon=-78.7731&zoom=14&layers=M -- ...computer contrarian of the first order... / http://aperiodic.net/phil/ PGP: 026A27F2 print: D200 5BDB FC4B B24A 9248 9F7A 4322 2D22 026A 27F2 --- -- NO COMPILER DETECTED ERRORS. -- VM/CMS VS/PASCAL compiler message indicating sucessful compilation --- -- ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Voting for Relation type=waterway
Hi Chris, Am Sonntag, den 19.02.2012, 15:53 + schrieb Chris Hill: > I do not agree with the whole basis of this thread. > > There are no such things as approved tags, tagging is open and people > are free to use *any* tags they like. > > There are no such things as deprecated tags, tagging is open and people > are free to use *any* tags they like. > > A vote by a few people is certainly not a justification to begin mass > edits or wide spread change of other people's carefully chosen work. > > Discuss: certainly, document: yes please, impose your will over > thousands over other mappers: no. You can find the discussion in the wiki. Even users that used the type=collection tag agreed to unify the tagging. Two years ago I've contacted all users that have contributed waterway relations and invited them to discuss. > Advertise your ideas and encourage acceptance. Show how well it works > any why it is better but don't use a phoney voting process ignored by > the vast majority as a mandate for action. I've advertised and talked and the stats shows, that many users use the unified tagging scheme. See: http://www.h-renrew.de/h/osm/osmchecks/02_Relationstypen/planet_waterways.html The final vote is just to finish the proposal and unify the last few tags ... Regards Werner ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Voting for Relation type=waterway
Am Montag, den 20.02.2012, 20:11 + schrieb Chris Hill: > On 19/02/12 23:38, Steve Bennett wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 2:53 AM, Chris Hill wrote: > >> I do not agree with the whole basis of this thread. > >> > >> There are no such things as approved tags, tagging is open and people are > >> free to use *any* tags they like. > > ... > >> Advertise your ideas and encourage acceptance. Show how well it works any > > How would you know whether a tag had "acceptance"? Wouldn't > > documenting it somewhere make sense? Maybe...in a wiki? > I did say document and discuss the OP. > > What would you > > call "acceptance"? Would "approved" be a reasonable synonym for that? > No. It implies some official status that leads people to remove other > tags, sometimes with mass edits. Chris, I've said nothing about mass or automatic editing. Every change will be done carefully and manually. > > The wiki and (currently broken) approval mechanism is not some > > horrible bureaucracy that exists to ruin your life. It's there so we, > > as a community, can document the tags we use, and agree on how we use > > them. While it's ok to spontaneously invent a new tag and use it to > > solve your current problem, you can surely see the benefits of > > everyone eventually converging on the same tag? > > > > And if so, what would you do with all the old tags that people used > > before you converged? Wouldn't you "deprecate" them? > > No, some tags will wither away, fine. Some seemingly similar tags will > exist side-by-side and that is fine too. Most importantly, distinctive > differences can emerge too. > > Just think this through. Approval implies some sort of enforcement, > without enforcement what is the point of approval? Just who would make > this enforcement happen and how? What would that do to an open project? > If only approved tags are used then how would mappers map what they > actually see? Wait weeks for some committee to discuss, argue and > approve or reject the tag? If you are free to use any tag, what is an > approval process for? > > If approval or 'acceptance' means a tag is rendered or used in a router > or whatever then which tool do you mean? There are hundreds run by OSM > and other organisations, companies and individuals. > > Flattening the tag structure by homogenising tags is destroying the fine > detail, sometimes carefully crafted by mappers and I will continue to > speak out against mass edits that attempt to do just that. It's just different tagging, no fine detail. Please show me the difference of the type=collection and the type=waterway relations we're talking about here. All the difference comes in the tagging history, when the australian mappers started with a different tagging stile than the european mappers. Regards Werner ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
