Re: [Tagging] Aqueducts?
On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 10:18:12 +1100 Steve Bennett wrote: > How is one supposed to tag > an irrigation channel? as I live in an irrigation area, with thousands of channels and drains, I put it in the 'too hard' basket and have mapped the main canals only ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Towing service?
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 5:50 AM, John Smith wrote: > > What about shop=service > > Errg, no. All shops provide a kind of "service"... Don't forget the key "office" if it is not really a shop: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:office Pieren ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Towing service?
On 7 January 2011 19:25, Pieren wrote: > On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 5:50 AM, John Smith > wrote: >> >> What about shop=service >> > > Errg, no. All shops provide a kind of "service"... > Don't forget the key "office" if it is not really a shop: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:office This would be more a shop than office, or maybe it would be better under landuse=depot... ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Towing service?
Am 07.01.2011 03:26, schrieb Alan Mintz: I can't find a tag for the base of operations of a towing service - i.e. you call them to tow your broken car or truck to a repair shop. The basic definition would be a service that tows cars and other "light" vehicles. Truck and other heavy vehicle towing would be a separate option. I propose: shop=towing [+ hgv=yes] For me, a shop would be to get in, buy something (or at least get some service done) and go out. That's not the case here. A towing service will get to your place to do something, much like the office of a plumber (which in most cases also wouldn't "qualify" for a shop). You might even won't be allowed to enter the area. Different thing would be car repair or car rental, which is also doing towing service, in these cases I simply would add towing_service=yes. Regards, ULFL ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Towing service?
On 7 January 2011 20:19, Ulf Lamping wrote: > For me, a shop would be to get in, buy something (or at least get some > service done) and go out. That's not the case here. A towing service will > get to your place to do something, much like the office of a plumber (which > in most cases also wouldn't "qualify" for a shop). Most plumbers here either work from home or work from a plumbing shop, I doubt I've ever seen a plumber working out of an office. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Towing service?
On 7 January 2011 20:26, John Smith wrote: > On 7 January 2011 20:19, Ulf Lamping wrote: >> For me, a shop would be to get in, buy something (or at least get some >> service done) and go out. That's not the case here. A towing service will >> get to your place to do something, much like the office of a plumber (which >> in most cases also wouldn't "qualify" for a shop). > > Most plumbers here either work from home or work from a plumbing shop, > I doubt I've ever seen a plumber working out of an office. > To expand things a little, I wouldn't say a locksmith has an office either, but they may have a shop or kiosk or work from home as well. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Signification of designated word
Hi, I began a process to define a new key for carpooling that you can found at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Carpool After some discussion my vision was modified and now I think that something like carpool=designated could be better, but before modify the proposal I need some explanation about Designated. I'm french and want to understand well what is "designated" for you. I'am afraid is designated is meaning of exclusion. So for you if we use carpool=designated is someone can understand that the parking is forbidden if you do not do carpool ? Thanks -- Rodolphe Quiédeville - Artisan Logiciel Libre Travailleur indépendant spécialisé en logiciel libre http://rodolphe.quiedeville.org/ SIP/XMPP : rodol...@quiedeville.org ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Signification of designated word
The meaning and use of "designated" is confused and highly contested in OSM, so I'd avoid using it for any other purpose. I'd have said "carpool" ought to be a distinct value, not a key, if you've got exclusive parking. Something like: amenity=parking+access=carpool Richard On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Rodolphe Quiedeville wrote: > Hi, > > I began a process to define a new key for carpooling that you can found > at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Carpool > > After some discussion my vision was modified and now I think that > something like carpool=designated could be better, but before modify the > proposal I need some explanation about Designated. I'm french and want > to understand well what is "designated" for you. I'am afraid is > designated is meaning of exclusion. > > So for you if we use carpool=designated is someone can understand that > the parking is forbidden if you do not do carpool ? > > Thanks > > -- > Rodolphe Quiédeville - Artisan Logiciel Libre > Travailleur indépendant spécialisé en logiciel libre > http://rodolphe.quiedeville.org/ > SIP/XMPP : rodol...@quiedeville.org > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Signification of designated word
Le 07/01/2011 15:01, Richard Mann a écrit : > The meaning and use of "designated" is confused and highly contested > in OSM, so I'd avoid using it for any other purpose. Thanks for that point. > I'd have said "carpool" ought to be a distinct value, not a key, if > you've got exclusive parking. Something like: > amenity=parking+access=carpool The problem is the acess is NOT exclusive, and I want to choose the clearest key/value. It's easy to indicate what is exclusive but not so easy to explain what is 'designated too' without restriction. What about carpool=welcome so ? Regards -- Rodolphe Quiédeville - Artisan Logiciel Libre Travailleur indépendant spécialisé en logiciel libre http://rodolphe.quiedeville.org/ SIP/XMPP : rodol...@quiedeville.org ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Differences in cycleways
I suspect that I am not the only one who has been confused by the totally-unrelated meanings of highway=track (a minor, rural road) and cycleway=track (a cycleway along side an automobile road). I don't know which one came first, but it is unfortunate that the naming scheme wasn't more consistent. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [Tagging] Differences in cycleways >From :mailto:stevag...@gmail.com Date :Fri Jan 07 00:23:56 America/Chicago 2011 On 6/01/2011 12:25 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: > How about railway=* cycleway=track? > http://www.railstotrails.org/ourWork/trailBuilding/toolbox/informationSummaries/rails-with-trails.html Heh, didn't think about that. I wouldn't do it, because in practice those kinds of trails tend to weave around a bit anyway. The idea of "cycleway=track" meaning "a separate way parallel to this one" is problematic I think. It works ok in the context of a road where the "track" is always immediately adjacent to the side of the road (or in some cases is actually within the road surface, but divided some other way). Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Thoughts on how to replace or modify an exist/established tag (Was: Feature Proposal - RFC - sluice_gate)
Am 06.01.2011 23:47, schrieb Simone Saviolo: Think of the "Windows Vista Ready" (pfft!) certification: it didn't mean that that software/device was of better quality than another one without the certification, but if you were planning to use it with Vista then it had better characteristics than the other one. If I'm right, I remember the problem of that (or a similar) labelling approach Microsoft made, because the buzz feature of the new system mentioned on the label was the Aero Look and Feel, but one label mentioned the new system as running, not making clear Aero was NOT supported - only the core system with the old-style interface. Something like that is my fear at your approach, as long as there is no way to counter this issue. [...] If application 2 doesn't support C, then it won't get the cert. If I study engineering and pass all exams but one, I won't get the degree. I may be better, much better than someone who does, but I won't be allowed to advertise me as an engineer. well - I see that as a problem not only at OSM, but we don't have to make mistakes already common practise in other areas. What's the goal of these certificates? Advertising possibility for the application? "this printed map of Las Vegas supports core 1.1, cycle 1.34, foot 4.12 and boat4.4"? Add as much "features" to the feature list as not applicable to the used bbox to get more plus points? The idea is to simplify communication between consumer developers and users, so that users don't have to go through the wiki to have an idea of whether a map is good for them. yeah... the Opening-hours-Map [1] made by Netzwolf uses the mapnik tiles. Therefore supporting all details of addresses, you can say: displaying housenumbers, street names, postcodes, city names and country names. But there is no search feature, so "supports address 1.0" would be misleading, I think. regards Peter ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Signification of designated word
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Rodolphe Quiedeville wrote: > The problem is the acess is NOT exclusive, and I want to choose the > clearest key/value. It's easy to indicate what is exclusive but not so > easy to explain what is 'designated too' without restriction. > > What about carpool=welcome so ? What about a node for the carpool spaces (access=carpool) in an area for the carpark (access=private)? Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Signification of designated word
Le 07/01/2011 15:41, Richard Mann a écrit : > On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Rodolphe Quiedeville > wrote: >> The problem is the acess is NOT exclusive, and I want to choose the >> clearest key/value. It's easy to indicate what is exclusive but not so >> easy to explain what is 'designated too' without restriction. >> >> What about carpool=welcome so ? > > What about a node for the carpool spaces (access=carpool) in an area > for the carpark (access=private)? Because there is no limitation on the parling access. It's a parking that you can use for just park your car (indeed) and where is well known that people use it to meet other Carpooler. And sometime there is a sign to indicate that this parking is an official 'Carpool parking', but in all case there is never any access limitation on the parking. Regards -- Rodolphe Quiédeville - Artisan Logiciel Libre Travailleur indépendant spécialisé en logiciel libre http://rodolphe.quiedeville.org/ SIP/XMPP : rodol...@quiedeville.org ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] designated bike lane
On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 11:27 PM, Paul Johnson wrote: > On 01/04/2011 08:46 AM, Anthony wrote: >> Your statement that bicycles are prohibited from driving on sidewalks >> in "all states" is not correct. Florida statutes explicitly state: >> "A person propelling a vehicle by human power upon and along a >> sidewalk, or across a roadway upon and along a crosswalk, has all the >> rights and duties applicable to a pedestrian under the same >> circumstances." > > But does Florida state that bicycles are vehicles and such laws apply to > them? If so, that would be the overriding factor. You don't seriously believe that, do you? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Differences in cycleways
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 2:30 PM, wrote: > I suspect that I am not the only one who has been confused by the > totally-unrelated meanings of highway=track (a minor, rural road) and > cycleway=track (a cycleway along side an automobile road). I don't know > which one came first, but it is unfortunate that the naming scheme wasn't > more consistent. Sorry. English has a habit of doing that, but it matches what highway engineers/planners call them. They wouldn't pick "cycleway" as the name for the key, however (they'd use cycle_facility or cycle_farcility). Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Signification of designated word
So, people are encouraged to use the parking lot for carpool meetups, but access is not limited to only those carpooling, which would be the meaning of access=carpool. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [Tagging] Signification of designated word >From :mailto:rodol...@quiedeville.org Date :Fri Jan 07 08:52:06 America/Chicago 2011 Le 07/01/2011 15:41, Richard Mann a écrit : > On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Rodolphe Quiedeville > wrote: >> The problem is the acess is NOT exclusive, and I want to choose the >> clearest key/value. It's easy to indicate what is exclusive but not so >> easy to explain what is 'designated too' without restriction. >> >> What about carpool=welcome so ? > > What about a node for the carpool spaces (access=carpool) in an area > for the carpark (access=private)? Because there is no limitation on the parling access. It's a parking that you can use for just park your car (indeed) and where is well known that people use it to meet other Carpooler. And sometime there is a sign to indicate that this parking is an official 'Carpool parking', but in all case there is never any access limitation on the parking. Regards -- Rodolphe Quiédeville - Artisan Logiciel Libre Travailleur indépendant spécialisé en logiciel libre http://rodolphe.quiedeville.org/ SIP/XMPP : rodol...@quiedeville.org ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] What is rtc_rate?
On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: > On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 3:24 PM, Peter wrote: >> Ride the City >> http://www.ridethecity.com/ >> Maybe there is some explanation there. > You're right - I should have looked in the history. > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/39275890/history > Not that there's any explanation there - I'm asking Brian Tang about it. It seems that they're a subjective rating scheme based on his own preferences for cycling. They probably shouldn't be in the database. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Signification of designated word
Ah - now I understand it a bit better - you mean a pick-up location. More a kind of bus stop for carpoolers. On that model I'd probably go for highway=carpool on a node. Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Signification of designated word
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 10:02 AM, Richard Mann wrote: > Ah - now I understand it a bit better - you mean a pick-up location. > More a kind of bus stop for carpoolers. On that model I'd probably go > for highway=carpool on a node. Not really, since at least half the people arriving leave their cars there (assuming everyone drives there). So it's a parking lot that's designated for carpool use, but also available for general parking. I wonder if northern Virginia's slug lines are mapped? They'd provide a good example if they are. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Signification of designated word
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: > Not really, since at least half the people arriving leave their cars > there (assuming everyone drives there). So it's a parking lot that's > designated for carpool use, but also available for general parking. > > I wonder if northern Virginia's slug lines are mapped? They'd provide > a good example if they are. The one I was thinking of was a place in a town where students gather to get a lift to the campus university out of town: nobody leaves their car there (the ones looking for lifts are on foot). Autres pays and all that. Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Signification of designated word
Le 07/01/2011 16:05, Nathan Edgars II a écrit : > On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 10:02 AM, Richard Mann > wrote: >> Ah - now I understand it a bit better - you mean a pick-up location. >> More a kind of bus stop for carpoolers. On that model I'd probably go >> for highway=carpool on a node. > > Not really, since at least half the people arriving leave their cars > there (assuming everyone drives there). So it's a parking lot that's > designated for carpool use, but also available for general parking. Yes it is this way that we use parking to do carpooling. 3 cars arrived with 3 Drivers, and juste one car left with the 3 people aboard, so 2 cars was parked. But indeed you can use the parking to left your park and go by foot. -- Rodolphe Quiédeville - Artisan Logiciel Libre Travailleur indépendant spécialisé en logiciel libre http://rodolphe.quiedeville.org/ SIP/XMPP : rodol...@quiedeville.org ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - deaddrop
2011/1/6 Peter : > But browser vulnerabilities? Those usually get patched within the day, right? within the day they get public. ;-) There is a market for selling unknown security relevant bugs. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - deaddrop
2011/1/6 RatZilla$ : > Hi all, > > I've set up a proposal for deaddrop. > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/deaddrop This was discussed in the German Mailinglist http://www.mail-archive.com/talk-de@openstreetmap.org/msg77328.html with no ultimate conclusion, so feel free to ignore this information. ;-) IMHO your proposal focuses too much on "electronic" deaddrops. Why not see USD-Sticks as one of many possibilities and subtag them accordingly (medium=pen_drive / paper / etc.)? cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Towing service?
2011/1/7 John Smith :
> On 7 January 2011 20:19, Ulf Lamping wrote:
>> For me, a shop would be to get in, buy something (or at least get some
>> service done) and go out. That's not the case here. A towing service will
>> get to your place to do something, much like the office of a plumber (which
>> in most cases also wouldn't "qualify" for a shop).
>
> Most plumbers here either work from home or work from a plumbing shop,
> I doubt I've ever seen a plumber working out of an office.
+1
I guess this misunderstanding derives from German ;-)
In German there is a word "Laden (m.)" which is usually translated as
"shop", but the actual meaning is not as broad as shop in English.
Actually it only describes "retail shops". There is another word
"Werkstatt" (f.) which is also a "shop" in English, but is describing
a workshop / studio for working manually or with machinery. [1]
(Some) Germans tend to use "shop" only for cases where they would use "Laden".
I think that we actually should have 2 "categories" (read "main tags")
to distinguish the 2 ("clean", representative retail unit intended for
customers and "dirty" workspace generally not intended for customers).
I am aware that this distinction is not in all cases (branches) clear,
and "clean" and "dirty" are not in all cases the right
characteristics, but I guess you get what I want to say. In our
current tagging scheme, case 2 would be covered by "craft".
cheers,
Martin
[1]
http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&lang=de&searchLoc=0&cmpType=relaxed§Hdr=on&spellToler=&search=werkstatt
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - deaddrop
One thing to keep in mind, when considering using such dead-drop facilities, is that the technique was originally developed for use by spies. Anyone using such dead-drops may find themselves under arrest, on suspicion of being spies and/or terrorists. While you may well be able to persuade the authorities that you aren't a spy or terrorist, the arrest will likely remain on your record. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - deaddrop >From :mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com Date :Fri Jan 07 10:17:50 America/Chicago 2011 2011/1/6 RatZilla$ : > Hi all, > > I've set up a proposal for deaddrop. > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/deaddrop This was discussed in the German Mailinglist http://www.mail-archive.com/talk-de@openstreetmap.org/msg77328.html with no ultimate conclusion, so feel free to ignore this information. ;-) IMHO your proposal focuses too much on "electronic" deaddrops. Why not see USD-Sticks as one of many possibilities and subtag them accordingly (medium=pen_drive / paper / etc.)? cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Towing service?
to illustrate the above, here is a stereotype Werkstatt: http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Schreinerwerkstatt_Boos_Aulendorf.jpg&filetimestamp=20080408090153 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:EWM_shop_2007.jpg and some stereotype Laden: http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Boutique_Christian_Lacroix.jpg&filetimestamp=20061026152537 http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Burkina_Faso_-_Madame_Badoun.jpg&filetimestamp=20050824011801 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Adidas_store_in_Tel_Aviv_Israel.jpg cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - deaddrop
On 8 January 2011 02:17, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: > IMHO your proposal focuses too much on "electronic" deaddrops. Why not > see USD-Sticks as one of many possibilities and subtag them > accordingly (medium=pen_drive / paper / etc.)? Wouldn't this be a subtag of a general point of interest, similar to what someone was asking for the other day for the tourist info plates? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Towing service?
On 8 January 2011 02:52, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: > I guess this misunderstanding derives from German ;-) > In German there is a word "Laden (m.)" which is usually translated as > "shop", but the actual meaning is not as broad as shop in English. > Actually it only describes "retail shops". There is another word > "Werkstatt" (f.) which is also a "shop" in English, but is describing > a workshop / studio for working manually or with machinery. [1] Well that might be the other option shop=workshop workshop=plumber|locksmith|... ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - deaddrop
Hi all, -- Pros / Cons -- There are many pros and cons for dead drops (DD to be short). My proposal is not about : "does DD good or not ?" but just about locate object of a growing urban data sharing project. There is a comment field on the website of the project, feel free to send your suggestion to the DD team. -- In or Out OSM-- I think the two ways are complementary. -OSM for basic description and location.(DD are more static then geochaches items, as they are sealed in wall) -Over OSM for additional details (description/photos/media and so one) -- medium -- Great Idea to focus on other type of DD medium Firewire / Ethernet / Irda and so one ;-) But to focus on DD IMHO ;-) does: deaddrop:type=* sounds better ? -- Terrorism and other illegal activities -- See project website and Manifesto on the DD Regards, Gaël ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Towing service?
I agree that shop=workshop, workshop= is a good solution to this issue. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [Tagging] Towing service? From :mailto:deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com Date :Fri Jan 07 11:29:53 America/Chicago 2011 On 8 January 2011 02:52, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: > I guess this misunderstanding derives from German ;-) > In German there is a word "Laden (m.)" which is usually translated as > "shop", but the actual meaning is not as broad as shop in English. > Actually it only describes "retail shops". There is another word > "Werkstatt" (f.) which is also a "shop" in English, but is describing > a workshop / studio for working manually or with machinery. [1] Well that might be the other option shop=workshop workshop=plumber|locksmith|... ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Thoughts on how to replace or modify an exist/established tag (Was: Feature Proposal - RFC - sluice_gate)
2011/1/6 Simone Saviolo : > ...for example, in the last > few weeks on talk-it we exhumed once again the problem that an amenity=bar > is not really a "bar" as we conceive it in Italy. Sadly though, despite the > interesting debate, and notwithstanding the fact that both parties are > "quite right", this means that in fact bars aren't mapped reliably at least > in Italy, Yes, the problem was (is), that some mappers decided to map (italian) bars as cafes, which they clearly aren't, so now it is even harder to find a cafe. ;-) This is just one example of many, that arise when mapping the whole world. Different cultures are different. We try to describe them all with tags in british English, but it is hard. We had a similar problem in Germany some time ago, when we tried to differentiate between "Schloss" (castle, palace, stately home, château in BE) and "Burg" (castle in BE). The world is complex. Some words can't be simply translated, not only does the translation depend on the context, there is also different general properties of "similar" objects. IMHO this means that who is looking at the map has to interpret it according to _where_ he is (and therefor needs some "cultural" background about the place). If I want to buy tobacco in Germany at night, I would go to a petrol station. In Italy I would go to a bar. But we can't (maybe, I'm not sure what the future brings) have complete lists of all country specific goods and services that are offered in certain features, or of all of their properties. And we can not expect of the mappers to go that deep into detail for every feature (actually there are some attempts to do this, e.g. dozens of tags for accepted payments at petrol stations). And currently most of the mapping and tags are still developped by mappers with similar cultural background, but IMHO OSM should also be the best map in the rest of the world. We can try to solve this up to a certain limit though. We should try to have short, precise definitions of the tags, starting with broad basic and inclusive definitions on the top level and then refine the details with subtags. If something doesn't fit into a given definition, we should invent a new tag / subtag. Currently our tagging system is very flat, sometimes going into deep detail on the toplevel (landuse=brownfield). E.g. every new kind of accomodation offering service goes into amenity (or was it tourism?). Subtyping could be nice to have the information "facility offering a place to sleep" in the main tag and "secondary" information like hotel, guesthouse, etc. in additional tags (the same applies for "eating and drinking" and a lot of others). Another problem is tags that don't fit into the main tag. E.g. there is Key:waterway which states: "Used to describe various waterway features." Not very specific a definition, but still: How does a tag "boatyard" fit into this? cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Towing service?
2011/1/7 : > I agree that shop=workshop, workshop= is a good solution to this > issue. +1, it could be combined with craft to map the kind of workshop. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Underground Waterways
I am curious how others would tag this way: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/48268491 This is a water feature that was imported as part of the NHD. On this particular stretch, the water is routed underground through a tunnel to the lake. I tried to add tunnel=culvert, but I think that waterway=canal is more dominant and is causing the feature to be drawn as a surface water feature. Thanks, David. PS. Apologies if this shows up in duplicate. I had unsubscribed from tagging some time ago and sent the above message. It has been stuck in the moderation hopper for 24 hours, so I resubscribed and re-sent. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Thoughts on how to replace or modify an exist/established tag (Was: Feature Proposal - RFC - sluice_gate)
On 01/06/2011 10:03 PM, Simone Saviolo wrote: > I suggested that some users with proven credentials be put in charge of > their own matter: for example, that one or more doctors in Civil > Engineering took care of the Civil Engineering course. I was told that > that's not how a wiki works and that a "wiki"versity should be open to > anybody's edits - I left the project because then the Wikipedia effect > is always latent: anyone could put any garbage in it and it may go > unnoticed. There is another wikipedia effect, very prominent in the German wikipedia: over-regulation, deleting useful edits because some admin thinks it's not relevant enough, no matter how well he knows that field of knowledge. In the real OSM world I haven't seen much garbage. There are always newbies who don't know the established tags, and there are a few controversial tags or how to handle a complex multipolygon, but overall my observation is that the map is already very good. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Underground Waterways
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 2:25 PM, David Fawcett wrote: > I am curious how others would tag this way: > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/48268491 > > This is a water feature that was imported as part of the NHD. On this > particular stretch, the water is routed underground through a tunnel > to the lake. > > I tried to add tunnel=culvert, but I think that waterway=canal is more > dominant and is causing the feature to be drawn as a surface water > feature. The problem is that Mapnik does not treat tunnel=* like tunnel=yes. File a ticket if you want it rendered properly. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Thoughts on how to replace or modify an exist/established tag (Was: Feature Proposal - RFC - sluice_gate)
On 01/06/2011 11:47 PM, Simone Saviolo wrote: > It's not an advantage "on the application side" in itself; it's more of > an advantage for the user. Say I'm a cyclist and I want a map: I'll > prefer one with CycleMap 4.3 over one with CycleMap 1.2 over one with no > CycleMap. If you plan to have half a dozen cycle map definitions as well as road, water, hiking, street, and what not, then we will have as many definitions as maps. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Underground Waterways
Would tunnel=yes be an inappropriate tag? On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 1:43 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: > On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 2:25 PM, David Fawcett wrote: >> I am curious how others would tag this way: >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/48268491 >> >> This is a water feature that was imported as part of the NHD. On this >> particular stretch, the water is routed underground through a tunnel >> to the lake. >> >> I tried to add tunnel=culvert, but I think that waterway=canal is more >> dominant and is causing the feature to be drawn as a surface water >> feature. > > The problem is that Mapnik does not treat tunnel=* like tunnel=yes. > File a ticket if you want it rendered properly. > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Differences in cycleways
Ladies and gentlemen, All great thoughts. Peter i take your critisism on the right way. Still you didn't answer my call for help. Let go back to the base of my question: cycleway=track = Who can give me examples on Google street view of what we have to concider to be cycleway-tracks? - Go to Google map Streetview - find a good example of what you consider to be a cycleway=track - Use the "Link" in the left upper corner - Post this link. Let me start: http://maps.google.nl/maps?hl=nl&ie=UTF8&ll=52.235698,5.701776&spn=0.006163,0.021136&z=16&layer=c&cbll=52.235696,5.701937&panoid=amiIS_Sdj-ssgyQipVgJ3Q&cbp=12,274.9,,1,4.23 This is a real cycleway track I think Please post your ultimate cycleway=track !!! -Robert- -Oorspronkelijk bericht- From: Richard Mann Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 3:56 PM To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools Subject: Re: [Tagging] Differences in cycleways On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 2:30 PM, wrote: I suspect that I am not the only one who has been confused by the totally-unrelated meanings of highway=track (a minor, rural road) and cycleway=track (a cycleway along side an automobile road). I don't know which one came first, but it is unfortunate that the naming scheme wasn't more consistent. Sorry. English has a habit of doing that, but it matches what highway engineers/planners call them. They wouldn't pick "cycleway" as the name for the key, however (they'd use cycle_facility or cycle_farcility). Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging --- Tekst ingevoegd door Panda GP 2011: Als het hier gaat om een ongevraagde e-mail (SPAM), klik dan op de volgende link om de e-mail te herclasseren: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_1624&SPAM=true&path=C:\Windows\system32\config\systemprofile\AppData\Local\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Global%20Protection%202011\AntiSpam --- ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Underground Waterways
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 3:03 PM, David Fawcett wrote: > Would tunnel=yes be an inappropriate tag? I wouldn't think so. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Differences in cycleways
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 3:57 PM, Robert Elsenaar wrote: > Ladies and gentlemen, > > All great thoughts. Peter i take your critisism on the right way. > Still you didn't answer my call for help. On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: > Your first example is a cycleway=track. If you don't map it > separately, and instead consider it to be part of Waalbandijk, you > would add cycleway=track to the Waalbandijk way. If you do map it > separately as a highway=cycleway, you can add cycleway=track to the > highway=cycleway way, but it would be redundant. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Differences in cycleways
Are there other new examples out there? Mine was the first. Please give me more examples of cycleway=track, especially in other countries then the Netherlands. -Robert- -Oorspronkelijk bericht- From: Nathan Edgars II Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 10:09 PM To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools Subject: Re: [Tagging] Differences in cycleways On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 3:57 PM, Robert Elsenaar wrote: Ladies and gentlemen, All great thoughts. Peter i take your critisism on the right way. Still you didn't answer my call for help. On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: Your first example is a cycleway=track. If you don't map it separately, and instead consider it to be part of Waalbandijk, you would add cycleway=track to the Waalbandijk way. If you do map it separately as a highway=cycleway, you can add cycleway=track to the highway=cycleway way, but it would be redundant. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging --- Tekst ingevoegd door Panda GP 2011: Als het hier gaat om een ongevraagde e-mail (SPAM), klik dan op de volgende link om de e-mail te herclasseren: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_1666&SPAM=true&path=C:\Windows\system32\config\systemprofile\AppData\Local\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Global%20Protection%202011\AntiSpam --- ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Differences in cycleways
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Oxford,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.763179,-1.235468&spn=0,0.009602&z=17&layer=c&cbll=51.763263,-1.235435&panoid=2D4TwRiiHwpu0OraA8vbPA&cbp=12,7.14,,0,5 Some people (not me particularly) might complain that your example has cycle tracks that are shared with pedestrians. The example above has separate footways and cycle tracks on both sides (and priority for the cycle tracks at side roads, which is a distinct novelty for the UK!) Richard On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 8:57 PM, Robert Elsenaar wrote: > Ladies and gentlemen, > > All great thoughts. Peter i take your critisism on the right way. > Still you didn't answer my call for help. > > Let go back to the base of my question: > cycleway=track > = > Who can give me examples on Google street view of what we have to > concider to be cycleway-tracks? > - Go to Google map Streetview > - find a good example of what you consider to be a cycleway=track > - Use the "Link" in the left upper corner > - Post this link. > > Let me start: > http://maps.google.nl/maps?hl=nl&ie=UTF8&ll=52.235698,5.701776&spn=0.006163,0.021136&z=16&layer=c&cbll=52.235696,5.701937&panoid=amiIS_Sdj-ssgyQipVgJ3Q&cbp=12,274.9,,1,4.23 > This is a real cycleway track I think > > Please post your ultimate cycleway=track !!! > > -Robert- > > -Oorspronkelijk bericht- From: Richard Mann > Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 3:56 PM > To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools > Subject: Re: [Tagging] Differences in cycleways > > On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 2:30 PM, wrote: >> >> I suspect that I am not the only one who has been confused by the >> totally-unrelated meanings of highway=track (a minor, rural road) and >> cycleway=track (a cycleway along side an automobile road). I don't know >> which one came first, but it is unfortunate that the naming scheme wasn't >> more consistent. > > Sorry. English has a habit of doing that, but it matches what highway > engineers/planners call them. They wouldn't pick "cycleway" as the > name for the key, however (they'd use cycle_facility or > cycle_farcility). > > Richard > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > > --- > Tekst ingevoegd door Panda GP 2011: > > Als het hier gaat om een ongevraagde e-mail (SPAM), klik dan op de volgende > link om de e-mail te herclasseren: > http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_1624&SPAM=true&path=C:\Windows\system32\config\systemprofile\AppData\Local\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Global%20Protection%202011\AntiSpam > --- > > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Towing service?
> > I agree that shop=workshop, workshop= is a good solution to > > this issue. > +1, it could be combined with craft to map the kind of workshop. I think, "craft=*" (may be with "man_made=works") is sufficient. So "shop=workshop" is redundant, and we need no such tag combination. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Towing service?
On 8 January 2011 08:33, Surly_ru wrote: >> > I agree that shop=workshop, workshop= is a good solution to >> > this issue. > >> +1, it could be combined with craft to map the kind of workshop. > > I think, "craft=*" (may be with "man_made=works") is sufficient. So > "shop=workshop" is redundant, and we need no such tag combination. -1 A tow truck driver doesn't need much more than a special license, I don't think this is a craft at all. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Towing service?
2011/1/7 John Smith : > A tow truck driver doesn't need much more than a special license, I > don't think this is a craft at all. he probably doesn't need a workshop either. I guess he will have an office and a garage for his car, that cars he tows will typically be put to a depot. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Underground Waterways
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 3:03 PM, David Fawcett wrote: > Would tunnel=yes be an inappropriate tag? Yes, according to the Wiki: "The tunnel tag is used to map ways that runs through an underground passage. You just need to add tunnel=yes where you like to have a tunnel on the section of highway (for road or rail tunnels) or waterway (e.g. channel tunnels)." http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:tunnel tunnel=yes is any tunnel. tunnel=culvert is a more specific tunnel. Similar for bridge: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:bridge. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
