Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

2016-02-24 Thread Augustine Leudar 
Yes it would be nice to know how exactly (or at least roughly if you dont
want to give your game away) the headphones take personalised HRTFs 

On 24 February 2016 at 07:33, umashankar manthravadi 
wrote:

> I had been thinking, for three or four years now, that if one builds an
> eight driver headphone, it should be possible to eliminate HRTF to a large
> extent. I have been intending to build one into a motorcycle helmet. You
> will then only need headtracking for a stable image.
> OSSIC is an eight driver system.
>
>
> umashankar
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
> From: Marc Lavallée<mailto:m...@hacklava.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 9:28 AM
> To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins
>
> It’d be nice to learn more about the auto-calibration feature. It looks
> like only the diameter of the head is monitored.
> —
> Marc
>
> > On Feb 23, 2016, at 10:48 PM, len moskowitz 
> wrote:
> >
> > OSSIC (formerly Sonic VR) has designed prototypes of headphones that do
> automatic HRTF calculation and headtracking. They will support ambisonics
> (They have a TetraMic system.)
> >
> >
> > They are seeking development and production funding on Kickstarter:
> >
> >
> >
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/248983394/ossic-x-the-first-3d-audio-headphones-calibrated-t
> >
> >
> > They sought to raise $100,000 in 60 days. They've already raised over
> $340,000 in less than three.
> >
> >
> > Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)
> > Core Sound LLC
> > www.core-sound.com
> > Home of TetraMic
>
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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

2016-02-24 Thread Augustine Leudar 
Umashankar - so you'd imitate ILDs and ITDs ? From what Ive read shoulder
reflections play an important role as well as the shape of the head - so Im
not sure if Pinna reflections would be enough ?

On 24 February 2016 at 10:19, Augustine Leudar 
wrote:

> Yes it would be nice to know how exactly (or at least roughly if you dont
> want to give your game away) the headphones take personalised HRTFs 
>
> On 24 February 2016 at 07:33, umashankar manthravadi <
> umasha...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I had been thinking, for three or four years now, that if one builds an
>> eight driver headphone, it should be possible to eliminate HRTF to a large
>> extent. I have been intending to build one into a motorcycle helmet. You
>> will then only need headtracking for a stable image.
>> OSSIC is an eight driver system.
>>
>>
>> umashankar
>>
>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows 10
>>
>> From: Marc Lavallée<mailto:m...@hacklava.net>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 9:28 AM
>> To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins
>>
>> It’d be nice to learn more about the auto-calibration feature. It looks
>> like only the diameter of the head is monitored.
>> —
>> Marc
>>
>> > On Feb 23, 2016, at 10:48 PM, len moskowitz 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > OSSIC (formerly Sonic VR) has designed prototypes of headphones that do
>> automatic HRTF calculation and headtracking. They will support ambisonics
>> (They have a TetraMic system.)
>> >
>> >
>> > They are seeking development and production funding on Kickstarter:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/248983394/ossic-x-the-first-3d-audio-headphones-calibrated-t
>> >
>> >
>> > They sought to raise $100,000 in 60 days. They've already raised over
>> $340,000 in less than three.
>> >
>> >
>> > Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)
>> > Core Sound LLC
>> > www.core-sound.com
>> > Home of TetraMic
>>
>> ___
>> Sursound mailing list
>> Sursound@music.vt.edu
>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

2016-02-24 Thread umashankar manthravadi 
It is not so much imitating as creating ILDs and ITDs. Shoulder reflections 
matter dynamically. But they vary from day to day. From the clothes we wear 
etc. I will order four small pairs of headphones today and 3-d print the over 
the ear structures. OSSIC talks about an anechoic rear chamber. I am thinking 
of an open backed structure (which will put your own shoulders into the 
picture!)

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Augustine Leudar<mailto:augustineleu...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:52 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

Umashankar - so you'd imitate ILDs and ITDs ? From what Ive read shoulder
reflections play an important role as well as the shape of the head - so Im
not sure if Pinna reflections would be enough ?

On 24 February 2016 at 10:19, Augustine Leudar 
wrote:

> Yes it would be nice to know how exactly (or at least roughly if you dont
> want to give your game away) the headphones take personalised HRTFs 
>
> On 24 February 2016 at 07:33, umashankar manthravadi <
> umasha...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I had been thinking, for three or four years now, that if one builds an
>> eight driver headphone, it should be possible to eliminate HRTF to a large
>> extent. I have been intending to build one into a motorcycle helmet. You
>> will then only need headtracking for a stable image.
>> OSSIC is an eight driver system.
>>
>>
>> umashankar
>>
>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows 10
>>
>> From: Marc Lavallée<mailto:m...@hacklava.net>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 9:28 AM
>> To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins
>>
>> It’d be nice to learn more about the auto-calibration feature. It looks
>> like only the diameter of the head is monitored.
>> —
>> Marc
>>
>> > On Feb 23, 2016, at 10:48 PM, len moskowitz 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > OSSIC (formerly Sonic VR) has designed prototypes of headphones that do
>> automatic HRTF calculation and headtracking. They will support ambisonics
>> (They have a TetraMic system.)
>> >
>> >
>> > They are seeking development and production funding on Kickstarter:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/248983394/ossic-x-the-first-3d-audio-headphones-calibrated-t
>> >
>> >
>> > They sought to raise $100,000 in 60 days. They've already raised over
>> $340,000 in less than three.
>> >
>> >
>> > Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)
>> > Core Sound LLC
>> > www.core-sound.com
>> > Home of TetraMic
>>
>> ___
>> Sursound mailing list
>> Sursound@music.vt.edu
>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
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>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
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>
>
>
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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

2016-02-24 Thread Corentin Guézénoc 
Based on what I had gathered from some video some time ago, my guess is 
that they use some kind of HRTF model that takes into account the user's 
head width, combined with the 4-driver system.  I guess the first would 
act mostly on low frequencies and the latter on higher frequencies that 
would be harder to model. However the last part is only a guess which 
I'm not sure about.


Corentin


Le 24/02/2016 11:22, Augustine Leudar a écrit :

Umashankar - so you'd imitate ILDs and ITDs ? From what Ive read shoulder
reflections play an important role as well as the shape of the head - so Im
not sure if Pinna reflections would be enough ?

On 24 February 2016 at 10:19, Augustine Leudar 
wrote:


Yes it would be nice to know how exactly (or at least roughly if you dont
want to give your game away) the headphones take personalised HRTFs 

On 24 February 2016 at 07:33, umashankar manthravadi <
umasha...@hotmail.com> wrote:


I had been thinking, for three or four years now, that if one builds an
eight driver headphone, it should be possible to eliminate HRTF to a large
extent. I have been intending to build one into a motorcycle helmet. You
will then only need headtracking for a stable image.
OSSIC is an eight driver system.


umashankar

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10

From: Marc Lavallée<mailto:m...@hacklava.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 9:28 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

It’d be nice to learn more about the auto-calibration feature. It looks
like only the diameter of the head is monitored.
—
Marc


On Feb 23, 2016, at 10:48 PM, len moskowitz 

wrote:

OSSIC (formerly Sonic VR) has designed prototypes of headphones that do

automatic HRTF calculation and headtracking. They will support ambisonics
(They have a TetraMic system.)


They are seeking development and production funding on Kickstarter:




https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/248983394/ossic-x-the-first-3d-audio-headphones-calibrated-t


They sought to raise $100,000 in 60 days. They've already raised over

$340,000 in less than three.


Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)
Core Sound LLC
www.core-sound.com
Home of TetraMic

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/R&D Engineer
3D Sound Labs /
Tel: +33 6 82 12 14 60


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Re: [Sursound] Ambisonic Decoder Design Resources

2016-02-24 Thread /dav/random 
t; >>
> >
> > nice! but unless you really need extremely high horizontal resolution for
> > research purposes or a truly humongous listening area, a better use for
> all
> > those speakers would be to make a more or less uniform 3D rig.
> > gets you a nice dodecahedron for full third-order all around.
> >
> >
> > best,
> >
> >
> > jörn
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jörn Nettingsmeier
> > Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487
> >
> > Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio)
> > Tonmeister VDT
> >
> > http://stackingdwarves.net
> >
> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
>
> These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University
>
> Dave Malham
> Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
> The University of York
> York YO10 5DD
> UK
>
> 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

2016-02-24 Thread Augustine Leudar 
Theyd still have to somehow measure the pinna dimensions though - which is
the most important part for vertical localisation - without that it wont
work with just shoulder reflections and headwidth...

On 24 February 2016 at 10:33, Corentin Guézénoc 
wrote:

> Based on what I had gathered from some video some time ago, my guess is
> that they use some kind of HRTF model that takes into account the user's
> head width, combined with the 4-driver system.  I guess the first would act
> mostly on low frequencies and the latter on higher frequencies that would
> be harder to model. However the last part is only a guess which I'm not
> sure about.
>
> Corentin
>
>
>
> Le 24/02/2016 11:22, Augustine Leudar a écrit :
>
>> Umashankar - so you'd imitate ILDs and ITDs ? From what Ive read shoulder
>> reflections play an important role as well as the shape of the head - so
>> Im
>> not sure if Pinna reflections would be enough ?
>>
>> On 24 February 2016 at 10:19, Augustine Leudar > >
>> wrote:
>>
>> Yes it would be nice to know how exactly (or at least roughly if you dont
>>> want to give your game away) the headphones take personalised HRTFs 
>>>
>>> On 24 February 2016 at 07:33, umashankar manthravadi <
>>> umasha...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I had been thinking, for three or four years now, that if one builds an
>>>> eight driver headphone, it should be possible to eliminate HRTF to a
>>>> large
>>>> extent. I have been intending to build one into a motorcycle helmet. You
>>>> will then only need headtracking for a stable image.
>>>> OSSIC is an eight driver system.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> umashankar
>>>>
>>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>>> Windows 10
>>>>
>>>> From: Marc Lavallée<mailto:m...@hacklava.net>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 9:28 AM
>>>> To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins
>>>>
>>>> It’d be nice to learn more about the auto-calibration feature. It looks
>>>> like only the diameter of the head is monitored.
>>>> —
>>>> Marc
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 23, 2016, at 10:48 PM, len moskowitz >>>> >
>>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> OSSIC (formerly Sonic VR) has designed prototypes of headphones that do
>>>>>
>>>> automatic HRTF calculation and headtracking. They will support
>>>> ambisonics
>>>> (They have a TetraMic system.)
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> They are seeking development and production funding on Kickstarter:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/248983394/ossic-x-the-first-3d-audio-headphones-calibrated-t
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> They sought to raise $100,000 in 60 days. They've already raised over
>>>>>
>>>> $340,000 in less than three.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)
>>>>> Core Sound LLC
>>>>> www.core-sound.com
>>>>> Home of TetraMic
>>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>> Sursound mailing list
>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu
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>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
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>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> www.augustineleudar.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> --
> *Corentin Guézénoc *
> /R&D Engineer
> 3D Sound Labs /
> Tel: +33 6 82 12 14 60
>
>
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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

2016-02-24 Thread Steven Boardman 
Not sure they would. As they are over the ear headphones, one doesn’t need 
pinna HRTF as ones own would function.
They probably made HRTF files for each driver position. That way your own pinna 
effects would function.

Steve



On 24 Feb 2016, at 11:30, Augustine Leudar  wrote:

> Theyd still have to somehow measure the pinna dimensions though - which is
> the most important part for vertical localisation - without that it wont
> work with just shoulder reflections and headwidth...
> 
> On 24 February 2016 at 10:33, Corentin Guézénoc 
> wrote:
> 
>> Based on what I had gathered from some video some time ago, my guess is
>> that they use some kind of HRTF model that takes into account the user's
>> head width, combined with the 4-driver system.  I guess the first would act
>> mostly on low frequencies and the latter on higher frequencies that would
>> be harder to model. However the last part is only a guess which I'm not
>> sure about.
>> 
>> Corentin
>> 

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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

2016-02-24 Thread umashankar manthravadi 
when you have four speakers to each ear, you can think of a decode to a cube. 
The only big difference between a cube mounted at a distance and this would be 
the importance of the head shadow. If you can cancel head movement (which 
headtracking does) it is very similar to listening to a cube of speakers in a 
room. there are some details of course. You do not need individual HRTFs. I am 
not sure what different head sizes will do. If the foam support compresses (and 
the distance to the drivers is fixed) it may not matter.

umashankar

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Steven Boardman<mailto:boardroomout...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 5:20 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

Not sure they would. As they are over the ear headphones, one doesn’t need 
pinna HRTF as ones own would function.
They probably made HRTF files for each driver position. That way your own pinna 
effects would function.

Steve



On 24 Feb 2016, at 11:30, Augustine Leudar  wrote:

> Theyd still have to somehow measure the pinna dimensions though - which is
> the most important part for vertical localisation - without that it wont
> work with just shoulder reflections and headwidth...
>
> On 24 February 2016 at 10:33, Corentin Guézénoc 
> wrote:
>
>> Based on what I had gathered from some video some time ago, my guess is
>> that they use some kind of HRTF model that takes into account the user's
>> head width, combined with the 4-driver system.  I guess the first would act
>> mostly on low frequencies and the latter on higher frequencies that would
>> be harder to model. However the last part is only a guess which I'm not
>> sure about.
>>
>> Corentin
>>

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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

2016-02-24 Thread Augustine Leudar 
Actually that does make sense - though what it does to the resolution of
localisation or whether pinna filtering will work with the drivers so close
remains to be seen - exciting if they've got it to work . Im sure I read
something about the US military trying this out somewhere. There is another
crushingly simple and obvious way of calibrating HRTFs though which I'm not
sure anyones thought of yet - whenever I say that it always turns out
somebody has years ago but anyway

On 24 February 2016 at 12:18, umashankar manthravadi 
wrote:

> when you have four speakers to each ear, you can think of a decode to a
> cube. The only big difference between a cube mounted at a distance and this
> would be the importance of the head shadow. If you can cancel head movement
> (which headtracking does) it is very similar to listening to a cube of
> speakers in a room. there are some details of course. You do not need
> individual HRTFs. I am not sure what different head sizes will do. If the
> foam support compresses (and the distance to the drivers is fixed) it may
> not matter.
>
> umashankar
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
> From: Steven Boardman<mailto:boardroomout...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 5:20 PM
> To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins
>
> Not sure they would. As they are over the ear headphones, one doesn’t need
> pinna HRTF as ones own would function.
> They probably made HRTF files for each driver position. That way your own
> pinna effects would function.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> On 24 Feb 2016, at 11:30, Augustine Leudar 
> wrote:
>
> > Theyd still have to somehow measure the pinna dimensions though - which
> is
> > the most important part for vertical localisation - without that it wont
> > work with just shoulder reflections and headwidth...
> >
> > On 24 February 2016 at 10:33, Corentin Guézénoc <
> c.gueze...@3dsoundlabs.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Based on what I had gathered from some video some time ago, my guess is
> >> that they use some kind of HRTF model that takes into account the user's
> >> head width, combined with the 4-driver system.  I guess the first would
> act
> >> mostly on low frequencies and the latter on higher frequencies that
> would
> >> be harder to model. However the last part is only a guess which I'm not
> >> sure about.
> >>
> >> Corentin
> >>
>
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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

2016-02-24 Thread Marc Lavallée 

If HRTF an applicable concept when using 4 drivers per ear to spatialise
sound?

--
Marc

On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 13:03:13 +0530,
umashankar manthravadi  wrote:

> I had been thinking, for three or four years now, that if one builds
> an eight driver headphone, it should be possible to eliminate HRTF to
> a large extent. I have been intending to build one into a motorcycle
> helmet. You will then only need headtracking for a stable image.
> OSSIC is an eight driver system.
> 
> 
> umashankar
> 
> Sent from Mail for
> Windows 10
> 
> From: Marc Lavallée
> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 9:28 AM
> To: Surround Sound discussion group
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins
> 
> It’d be nice to learn more about the auto-calibration feature. It
> looks like only the diameter of the head is monitored. —
> Marc
> 
> > On Feb 23, 2016, at 10:48 PM, len moskowitz
> >  wrote:
> >
> > OSSIC (formerly Sonic VR) has designed prototypes of headphones
> > that do automatic HRTF calculation and headtracking. They will
> > support ambisonics (They have a TetraMic system.)
> >
> >
> > They are seeking development and production funding on Kickstarter:
> >
> >
> >
> > https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/248983394/ossic-x-the-first-3d-audio-headphones-calibrated-t
> >
> >
> > They sought to raise $100,000 in 60 days. They've already raised
> > over $340,000 in less than three.
> >
> >
> > Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)
> > Core Sound LLC
> > www.core-sound.com
> > Home of TetraMic
> 
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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

2016-02-24 Thread Steven Boardman 
Yes. 

Richard Furse’s Blue Ripple Sound uses HRTF tinting in their decoder, it works 
very well. Although I think he may have a patent on it…:)

Steve



On 24 Feb 2016, at 13:48, Marc Lavallée  wrote:

> 
> If HRTF an applicable concept when using 4 drivers per ear to spatialise
> sound?
> 
> --
> Marc
> 
> On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 13:03:13 +0530,
> umashankar manthravadi  wrote:
> 

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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

2016-02-24 Thread Politis Archontis 
> On 24 Feb 2016, at 16:04, Steven Boardman  wrote:
> 
> Yes. 
> 
> Richard Furse’s Blue Ripple Sound uses HRTF tinting in their decoder, it 
> works very well. Although I think he may have a patent on it…:)
> 
> Steve
> 

Hi Steve,

what is HRTF tinting? I haven’t heard the name before..

Archontis
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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

2016-02-24 Thread Marc Lavallee 
On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 14:27:36 +
Politis Archontis  wrote:

> > On 24 Feb 2016, at 16:04, Steven Boardman
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Yes. 
> > 
> > Richard Furse’s Blue Ripple Sound uses HRTF tinting in their
> > decoder, it works very well. Although I think he may have a patent
> > on it…:)
> > 
> > Steve
> >   
> 
> Hi Steve,
> 
> what is HRTF tinting? I haven’t heard the name before..
>
> Archontis

There's a description in the text of the patent:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2015/0262586.html
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20150262586.pdf

How multiple drivers can use HRTF tinting is unclear.
(but as most patents, they are difficult to understand).
--
Marc

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Re: [Sursound] Ambisonic Decoder Design Resources

2016-02-24 Thread Jörn Nettingsmeier 

On 02/24/2016 11:37 AM, /dav/random wrote:

Thanks Archontis for mentioning also my little project!
Since I moved out from Barcelona Media, I'm developing the project in my
freetime and the updated repository changed to:
https://github.com/davrandom/idhoa

I don't want to SPAM more... so if anyone is interested, just drop an email.


can't speak for anyone else here, but personally i would very much like 
to be informed about this project, and it seems perfectly on topic for 
sursound.



--
Jörn Nettingsmeier
Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487

Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio)
Tonmeister VDT

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Re: [Sursound] HRTF tinting

2016-02-24 Thread Politis Archontis 
Thanx Marc for the pointer. 

Having a quick look, it seems that tinting is what I call sound-feld shaping, 
and also what Kronlachner has included in his ambisonic plugins as “directional 
loudness”. 
Essentially it describes the application of an arbitrary directional weighting 
to the sound-field before decoding, so that for example certain angular regions 
can be attenuated or modified compared to others. I have also used it for 
acoustic analysis purposes, to analyze what’s happening (sources/reflections) 
only on a certain angular region. The operations to do that arise naturally in 
the SH theory.

Richard in his patent seems to be applying the HRTFs as spatial weighting to 
the sound-field, in order to enhance various cues including elevation, a smart 
idea! Note that this is different from a direct ambisonic to binaural 
conversion, in which you take the HOA signals and you end up with two binaural 
signals, here you take the HOA signals, you weight the sound-field with the 
HRTFs, and you end up with 2 times the HOA signals, HRTF-weighted, one set for 
each ear. These can then be used for an enhanced ambisonic to binaural 
conversion.

I too fail to see though what this has to do with the OP headphones with the 4 
drivers inside…

Regards,
Archontis

> On 24 Feb 2016, at 19:58, Marc Lavallee  wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 14:27:36 +
> Politis Archontis  wrote:
> 
>>> On 24 Feb 2016, at 16:04, Steven Boardman
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes. 
>>> 
>>> Richard Furse’s Blue Ripple Sound uses HRTF tinting in their
>>> decoder, it works very well. Although I think he may have a patent
>>> on it…:)
>>> 
>>> Steve
>>> 
>> 
>> Hi Steve,
>> 
>> what is HRTF tinting? I haven’t heard the name before..
>> 
>> Archontis
> 
> There's a description in the text of the patent:
> http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2015/0262586.html
> http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20150262586.pdf
> 
> How multiple drivers can use HRTF tinting is unclear.
> (but as most patents, they are difficult to understand).
> --
> Marc
> 

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Re: [Sursound] AmbiExplorer: no sensors on CM13.0 (Android 6.0 Marshmallow)

2016-02-24 Thread Jörn Nettingsmeier 

On 01/08/2016 11:25 PM, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:

Hi Hector, hi everone,


after a botched mobile phone upgrade (I'm using CM on my Samsung S4 and
update frequently), I was forced to redo the phone from scratch, taking
the opportunity to move to CM13.0, which is based on Android 6.0 aka
Marshmallow. I reinstalled AmbiExplorer from Google Play and had a good
look at all the promising new features that I had somehow neglected to
play with before :)

The only problem is that the sensors have stopped working. I can move
the sound field by dragging the head icon, but it does not react to
phone orientation anymore. Hadn't used it in a month or so, so I can't
be 100% sure it's due to the OS upgrade, but it seems likely.

Other apps can access all relevant sensors (I'm using the Physics
Toolbox Suite by Vieyra), and I don't have any privacy settings that
might interfere with AmbiExplorer. Under Android
Settings/Apps/AmbiExplorer, I see it has the permissions to use Location
services and storage. I wonder if it is missing an extra permission to
access the sensors, but the Vieyra suite doesn't have anything like it
either, so I guess permissions can be ruled out.

Have you had the chance to try AE on 6.0 on a Samsung? I know this is
quite bleeding edge and CM is pretty shaky still, too. So no ill
feelings if there's no immediate fix. Maybe I should just go into
version junkie detox and stick with what works :-D


sorry to revive such an old thread, but i just wanted to remark that 
sensors in AmbiExplorer have been working again in CM13 nightlies since 
the last couple of weeks. back to head tracking fun!



--
Jörn Nettingsmeier
Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487

Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio)
Tonmeister VDT

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Re: [Sursound] HRTF tinting

2016-02-24 Thread Steven Boardman 
I was only thinking of the headphones as an 8 transducer array. Maybe
producing an ambisonic (or other) sound field, that could have tinting
applied to it. Rather than a straight conversion to binaural, (why have 8
transducers otherwise ?). This could allow ones own pinna to function to
some degree, without the need for measurement.
All only conjecture of course, as I am not aware of any research that
applies ambisonic (or other) arrays within headphones.

Steve.
On 24 Feb 2016 8:06 pm, "Politis Archontis" 
wrote:

> Thanx Marc for the pointer.
>
> Having a quick look, it seems that tinting is what I call sound-feld
> shaping, and also what Kronlachner has included in his ambisonic plugins as
> “directional loudness”.
> Essentially it describes the application of an arbitrary directional
> weighting to the sound-field before decoding, so that for example certain
> angular regions can be attenuated or modified compared to others. I have
> also used it for acoustic analysis purposes, to analyze what’s happening
> (sources/reflections) only on a certain angular region. The operations to
> do that arise naturally in the SH theory.
>
> Richard in his patent seems to be applying the HRTFs as spatial weighting
> to the sound-field, in order to enhance various cues including elevation, a
> smart idea! Note that this is different from a direct ambisonic to binaural
> conversion, in which you take the HOA signals and you end up with two
> binaural signals, here you take the HOA signals, you weight the sound-field
> with the HRTFs, and you end up with 2 times the HOA signals, HRTF-weighted,
> one set for each ear. These can then be used for an enhanced ambisonic to
> binaural conversion.
>
> I too fail to see though what this has to do with the OP headphones with
> the 4 drivers inside…
>
> Regards,
> Archontis
>
> > On 24 Feb 2016, at 19:58, Marc Lavallee  wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 14:27:36 +
> > Politis Archontis  wrote:
> >
> >>> On 24 Feb 2016, at 16:04, Steven Boardman
> >>>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Yes.
> >>>
> >>> Richard Furse’s Blue Ripple Sound uses HRTF tinting in their
> >>> decoder, it works very well. Although I think he may have a patent
> >>> on it…:)
> >>>
> >>> Steve
> >>>
> >>
> >> Hi Steve,
> >>
> >> what is HRTF tinting? I haven’t heard the name before..
> >>
> >> Archontis
> >
> > There's a description in the text of the patent:
> > http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2015/0262586.html
> > http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20150262586.pdf
> >
> > How multiple drivers can use HRTF tinting is unclear.
> > (but as most patents, they are difficult to understand).
> > --
> > Marc
> >
>
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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

2016-02-24 Thread umashankar manthravadi 
I had been thinking about hrtf and the information available from shoulder and 
body reflections. They need to be decoupled. Headtracking should apply only to 
signal that will be binaural and HRTF processed. The other part of the sound 
should not have headtracking applied. I nearly twisted my neck this morning 
listening to the hiss of the gas stove and turn my shoulders without turning my 
head, not enough data. But just commonsense tells you the brain is probably 
using the rotating head information against a quasi static soundfield that 
includes body reflections.

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Marc Lavallee
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:30 PM
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 14:27:36 +
Politis Archontis  wrote:

> > On 24 Feb 2016, at 16:04, Steven Boardman
> >  wrote:
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > Richard Furse’s Blue Ripple Sound uses HRTF tinting in their
> > decoder, it works very well. Although I think he may have a patent
> > on it…:)
> >
> > Steve
> >
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> what is HRTF tinting? I haven’t heard the name before..
>
> Archontis

There's a description in the text of the patent:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2015/0262586.html
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20150262586.pdf

How multiple drivers can use HRTF tinting is unclear.
(but as most patents, they are difficult to understand).
--
Marc

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