Re: [Sursound] Vestibular response, HRTF database, and now with added height...
well, I think it's a big jump, so to speak to try to get funding for that. I have a much more modest proposal: Is auditory spatial perception and performance similar in all regions? - I have a strong suspicion that it's different in the Maldives. Further, I think it may be that, if you take someone that has been tested in, say, England, then transport them to the Maldives and test, looking for changes in performance over a 2 month period, one might find a progressive change. Then bring them back for a two month, repeating the test procedure. Then back to the Maldives, testing if the change in performance is similar, or indeed more rapid, the second time around. If significant results are obtained, we next try Bali. and so on. This will be much cheaper than the zero-G proposal In the interests of science, I am prepared to volunteer as a guinea pig, even if it means turning my back on my chances of being promoted to fourth assistant to the deputy office manager - that's how dedicated to science I am! Dr Peter Lennox School of Technology, Faculty of Arts, Design and Technology University of Derby, UK e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk t: 01332 593155 From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Dave Malham [dave.mal...@york.ac.uk] Sent: 05 November 2012 16:28 To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: Re: [Sursound] Vestibular response, HRTF database, and now with added height... Hi Peter, Like I just said - needs experiments in zero G. I wonder what the acoustics in the ISS are like? Might be easier to organise decent acoustics in a Vomit Comet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduced_gravity_aircraft) especially as the padding already there would help. Now, where do we apply for funding?? Dave On 5 November 2012 14:18, Peter Lennox wrote: > Eric, some interesting thoughts there, thanks. > One or two thoughts in reaction: > 1) you say " There have been a lot of studies regarding localization in the > transverse (horizontal) plane" - I know its quite common to conflate these, > but (as implied in your later thought experiment) - it's worth pointing out > that "horizontal" is specified as perpendicular to gravity. When a person is > standing or sitting straight, then if the head is not tilted then the > conflation is permissible. But. People tilt and move their heads all the > time, so acuity in hearing in the transverse plane is not the same as acuity > in the horizontal plane > > 2) Your question about acuity when the body is not in that 'usual' > orientation: I've thought the same thing, though the other way around - I put > people flat on their backs, then played ambisonic material tilted through 90 > degrees, to see if they got some different experience. So, I was interested > in perception in the vertical, but using that transverse plane. The > experience was different, but inconclusive in that it wasn't a controlled > experiment, of course. I found that identification of source direction was > less good than I'd anticipated. BUT - actually, (going back to experiences > whilst camping - I've lain awake in the countryside thinking about these > things) - listening (especially for direction) with your head so close to the > ground is certainly an unfamiliar experience. You've messed up a lot of the > pinnae effects. Interaural differences may well be affected. You've got a > peculiar pattern of very early reflections (from the ground next to your > ears). Most importantly, y > ou're listening to sources in the sky, with no reflective and occlusive > bodies around them. There's no 'ground effect' of the sort that a standing or > sitting person will get - that it, early reflected material that has > interacted with the ground, including filtering by surface features, clutter > (material objects and detritus have a tendency to be near the ground due to > gravity...) so, overall, hearing in that area just won't be the same. > The above might partly account for why, in your experiment, hearing in the > horizontal might seem better than it ought - there are simply more cues > available for sources at or near the ground? However, in the camping example, > I did find increased instances of reversals. > > So I had thought there might be an interaction between gravity and spatial > hearing, but realised that some of it is just down to physics - the sky > really is different from the ground, we really are sort of "2.5 d" hearers > (and thinkers?). I'd also wondered whether distance(range) perception might > differ with direction. It does (items seem nearer), but more to do with the > physics of the matter - for sources in the sky, sometimes (not always!) there > is only a direct signal path. So, distance perception as the product of the > direct/indirect ratio doesn't seem quite the right formulation. > > These things need some decent experimentation, it seems to me > > Cheers > ppl >
Re: [Sursound] Vestibular response, HRTF database, and now with added height...
And, of course, it would be essential to test for the effects of age on the rapidity of change, so I guess I will be forced to come out of retirement in order to provide a suitable subject without inconveniencing anyone else... Dave On 6 November 2012 11:09, Peter Lennox wrote: > well, I think it's a big jump, so to speak to try to get funding for that. > > I have a much more modest proposal: > > Is auditory spatial perception and performance similar in all regions? - I > have a strong suspicion that it's different in the Maldives. Further, I think > it may be that, if you take someone that has been tested in, say, England, > then transport them to the Maldives and test, looking for changes in > performance over a 2 month period, one might find a progressive change. Then > bring them back for a two month, repeating the test procedure. Then back to > the Maldives, testing if the change in performance is similar, or indeed more > rapid, the second time around. > If significant results are obtained, we next try Bali. and so on. > This will be much cheaper than the zero-G proposal > > In the interests of science, I am prepared to volunteer as a guinea pig, even > if it means turning my back on my chances of being promoted to fourth > assistant to the deputy office manager - that's how dedicated to science I am! > Dr Peter Lennox > > School of Technology, > Faculty of Arts, Design and Technology > University of Derby, UK > e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk > t: 01332 593155 > > From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf > Of Dave Malham [dave.mal...@york.ac.uk] > Sent: 05 November 2012 16:28 > To: Surround Sound discussion group > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Vestibular response, HRTF database, and now with > added height... > > Hi Peter, > Like I just said - needs experiments in zero G. I wonder what the > acoustics in the ISS are like? Might be easier to organise decent > acoustics in a Vomit Comet > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduced_gravity_aircraft) especially as > the padding already there would help. Now, where do we apply for > funding?? > > Dave > > On 5 November 2012 14:18, Peter Lennox wrote: >> Eric, some interesting thoughts there, thanks. >> One or two thoughts in reaction: >> 1) you say " There have been a lot of studies regarding localization in the >> transverse (horizontal) plane" - I know its quite common to conflate these, >> but (as implied in your later thought experiment) - it's worth pointing out >> that "horizontal" is specified as perpendicular to gravity. When a person is >> standing or sitting straight, then if the head is not tilted then the >> conflation is permissible. But. People tilt and move their heads all the >> time, so acuity in hearing in the transverse plane is not the same as acuity >> in the horizontal plane >> >> 2) Your question about acuity when the body is not in that 'usual' >> orientation: I've thought the same thing, though the other way around - I >> put people flat on their backs, then played ambisonic material tilted >> through 90 degrees, to see if they got some different experience. So, I was >> interested in perception in the vertical, but using that transverse plane. >> The experience was different, but inconclusive in that it wasn't a >> controlled experiment, of course. I found that identification of source >> direction was less good than I'd anticipated. BUT - actually, (going back to >> experiences whilst camping - I've lain awake in the countryside thinking >> about these things) - listening (especially for direction) with your head so >> close to the ground is certainly an unfamiliar experience. You've messed up >> a lot of the pinnae effects. Interaural differences may well be affected. >> You've got a peculiar pattern of very early reflections (from the ground >> next to your ears). Most importantly , > y >> ou're listening to sources in the sky, with no reflective and occlusive >> bodies around them. There's no 'ground effect' of the sort that a standing >> or sitting person will get - that it, early reflected material that has >> interacted with the ground, including filtering by surface features, clutter >> (material objects and detritus have a tendency to be near the ground due to >> gravity...) so, overall, hearing in that area just won't be the same. >> The above might partly account for why, in your experiment, hearing in the >> horizontal might seem better than it ought - there are simply more cues >> available for sources at or near the ground? However, in the camping >> example, I did find increased instances of reversals. >> >> So I had thought there might be an interaction between gravity and spatial >> hearing, but realised that some of it is just down to physics - the sky >> really is different from the ground, we really are sort of "2.5 d" hearers >> (and thinkers?). I'd also wondered whether distance(range
Re: [Sursound] Vestibular response, HRTF database, and now with added height...
Good point. Do you think there may be an interaction with altered physiological states? - I'm thinking alcohol might have a significant effect. Worth exploring, anyhow... Dr Peter Lennox School of Technology, Faculty of Arts, Design and Technology University of Derby, UK e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk t: 01332 593155 From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Dave Malham [dave.mal...@york.ac.uk] Sent: 06 November 2012 11:18 To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: Re: [Sursound] Vestibular response, HRTF database, and now with added height... And, of course, it would be essential to test for the effects of age on the rapidity of change, so I guess I will be forced to come out of retirement in order to provide a suitable subject without inconveniencing anyone else... Dave On 6 November 2012 11:09, Peter Lennox wrote: > well, I think it's a big jump, so to speak to try to get funding for that. > > I have a much more modest proposal: > > Is auditory spatial perception and performance similar in all regions? - I > have a strong suspicion that it's different in the Maldives. Further, I think > it may be that, if you take someone that has been tested in, say, England, > then transport them to the Maldives and test, looking for changes in > performance over a 2 month period, one might find a progressive change. Then > bring them back for a two month, repeating the test procedure. Then back to > the Maldives, testing if the change in performance is similar, or indeed more > rapid, the second time around. > If significant results are obtained, we next try Bali. and so on. > This will be much cheaper than the zero-G proposal > > In the interests of science, I am prepared to volunteer as a guinea pig, even > if it means turning my back on my chances of being promoted to fourth > assistant to the deputy office manager - that's how dedicated to science I am! > Dr Peter Lennox > > School of Technology, > Faculty of Arts, Design and Technology > University of Derby, UK > e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk > t: 01332 593155 > > From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf > Of Dave Malham [dave.mal...@york.ac.uk] > Sent: 05 November 2012 16:28 > To: Surround Sound discussion group > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Vestibular response, HRTF database, and now with > added height... > > Hi Peter, > Like I just said - needs experiments in zero G. I wonder what the > acoustics in the ISS are like? Might be easier to organise decent > acoustics in a Vomit Comet > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduced_gravity_aircraft) especially as > the padding already there would help. Now, where do we apply for > funding?? > > Dave > > On 5 November 2012 14:18, Peter Lennox wrote: >> Eric, some interesting thoughts there, thanks. >> One or two thoughts in reaction: >> 1) you say " There have been a lot of studies regarding localization in the >> transverse (horizontal) plane" - I know its quite common to conflate these, >> but (as implied in your later thought experiment) - it's worth pointing out >> that "horizontal" is specified as perpendicular to gravity. When a person is >> standing or sitting straight, then if the head is not tilted then the >> conflation is permissible. But. People tilt and move their heads all the >> time, so acuity in hearing in the transverse plane is not the same as acuity >> in the horizontal plane >> >> 2) Your question about acuity when the body is not in that 'usual' >> orientation: I've thought the same thing, though the other way around - I >> put people flat on their backs, then played ambisonic material tilted >> through 90 degrees, to see if they got some different experience. So, I was >> interested in perception in the vertical, but using that transverse plane. >> The experience was different, but inconclusive in that it wasn't a >> controlled experiment, of course. I found that identification of source >> direction was less good than I'd anticipated. BUT - actually, (going back to >> experiences whilst camping - I've lain awake in the countryside thinking >> about these things) - listening (especially for direction) with your head so >> close to the ground is certainly an unfamiliar experience. You've messed up >> a lot of the pinnae effects. Interaural differences may well be affected. >> You've got a peculiar pattern of very early reflections (from the ground >> next to your ears). Most importantly , > y >> ou're listening to sources in the sky, with no reflective and occlusive >> bodies around them. There's no 'ground effect' of the sort that a standing >> or sitting person will get - that it, early reflected material that has >> interacted with the ground, including filtering by surface features, clutter >> (material objects and detritus have a tendency to be near the ground due to >> gravity...) so, ov
Re: [Sursound] Vestibular response, HRTF database, and now with added height...
An even more excellent point - perhaps Laproiag could be persuaded to help? Dave On 6 November 2012 11:42, Peter Lennox wrote: > Good point. > Do you think there may be an interaction with altered physiological states? - > I'm thinking alcohol might have a significant effect. Worth exploring, > anyhow... > Dr Peter Lennox > > School of Technology, > Faculty of Arts, Design and Technology > University of Derby, UK > e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk > t: 01332 593155 > > From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf > Of Dave Malham [dave.mal...@york.ac.uk] > Sent: 06 November 2012 11:18 > To: Surround Sound discussion group > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Vestibular response, HRTF database, and now with > added height... > > And, of course, it would be essential to test for the effects of age > on the rapidity of change, so I guess I will be forced to come out of > retirement in order to provide a suitable subject without > inconveniencing anyone else... > >Dave > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by my employer Dave Malham Ex-Music Research Centre Department of Music The University of York Heslington York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Vestibular response, HRTF database, and now with added height...
ah yes - marvellous aide memoir Dr Peter Lennox School of Technology, Faculty of Arts, Design and Technology University of Derby, UK e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk t: 01332 593155 From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Dave Malham [dave.mal...@york.ac.uk] Sent: 06 November 2012 18:19 To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: Re: [Sursound] Vestibular response, HRTF database, and now with added height... An even more excellent point - perhaps Laproiag could be persuaded to help? Dave On 6 November 2012 11:42, Peter Lennox wrote: > Good point. > Do you think there may be an interaction with altered physiological states? - > I'm thinking alcohol might have a significant effect. Worth exploring, > anyhow... > Dr Peter Lennox > > School of Technology, > Faculty of Arts, Design and Technology > University of Derby, UK > e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk > t: 01332 593155 > > From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf > Of Dave Malham [dave.mal...@york.ac.uk] > Sent: 06 November 2012 11:18 > To: Surround Sound discussion group > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Vestibular response, HRTF database, and now with > added height... > > And, of course, it would be essential to test for the effects of age > on the rapidity of change, so I guess I will be forced to come out of > retirement in order to provide a suitable subject without > inconveniencing anyone else... > >Dave > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by my employer Dave Malham Ex-Music Research Centre Department of Music The University of York Heslington York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound _ The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and reserves the right to monitor email traffic. If you believe this email was sent to you in error, please notify the sender and delete this email. Please direct any concerns to info...@derby.ac.uk. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
[Sursound] Going 'round and 'round
Hi All, Being as the vestibulocochlear nerve is responsible for transmitting sound and equilibrium (balance) information from the inner ear to the brain, it seems that balance dysfunction (or abnormal situations, such as space travel) could affect localization. Dr. Michael Cevette, Ph.D. (Mayo Clinic), Dr. Jan Stepanek M.D. (Mayo Clinic) and the Aerospace Medicine & Vestibular Research Laboratory (AMVRL) team have investigated vestibular illusions underlying spatial disorientation in the aerospace environment. From what I gathered in a lecture co-presented by Dr. Cevette and Dr. Stepanek, "galvanic vestibular stimulation" (GVS) can be used to induce disorientation (the purpose of being to train astronauts and pilots). This, combined with studies of spatial hearing, might shed some light on some purposeful questions. I'll shoot Dr. Cevette a note and see whether he can provide any insight for those who might be interested. Experiments are in work for studying effects of vestibular-auditory-localization interactions. Bill Yost (ASU) is awaiting installation of a rotating chair and a loudspeaker array. To my knowledge, the loudspeaker array will consist of 40+ speakers in a semi-hemispherical orientation. I'll ask Bill if he has considered using GVS. I recall seeing one reference (trying to dig it up) where the experimenters used a chair rotating at a constant rotational velocity. This, then, would result in a static but abnormal change in vestibular balance. Not sure if or how the sound (or sounds) followed the chairs rotation. Once Bill gets the rotating chair and loudspeakers in place (the big setback here in the USA is dealing with building codes), I am hoping to use the array for studies involving Ambisonics. Vestibular disorders aren't my interest, but spatial hearing is. Eric -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20121106/eaa11332/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Sursound Digest, Vol 52, Issue 6
Dear sursounders, Peter, I'll keep this short as some earlier posts bounced and I never found out why.. I've recently worked on projects investigating soundscape perception using ambisonic (binaural, 3D loudspeaker arrays) recordings of environments in Singapore. Axelsson & Nilsson (SSQP) theorise that familiarity [with the environment-kind in question] is an significant factor in assessing quality & content. With that in mind, I included a group of Norwegians to counter the group of Singaporeans in one study. However, the sample sizes were unbalanced & too small to be reliable. Any cross-cultural aspects of soundscape perception would have to be addressed specifically, and I'd be very interested to collaborate with people (Singapore, Maldives, London, Tromsø…?) on that. There must be some work done (re comparisons in Tuning of the World) but I'm not really up to date on it I'm afraid. /pm PerMagnus Lindborg composer | BA Oslo Cursus Ircam DEA Paris-4 | www.permagnus.net assistant professor | area coordinator interactive media | www.permagnus.tk School of Art, Design and Media | Nanyang Technological University | www.ntu.edu.sg 81 Nanyang Drive | 437458 Singapore | +65.6316.8727 (GMT+8h) --- well, I think it's a big jump, so to speak to try to get funding for that. I have a much more modest proposal: Is auditory spatial perception and performance similar in all regions? - I have a strong suspicion that it's different in the Maldives. Further, I think it may be that, if you take someone that has been tested in, say, England, then transport them to the Maldives and test, looking for changes in performance over a 2 month period, one might find a progressive change. Then bring them back for a two month, repeating the test procedure. Then back to the Maldives, testing if the change in performance is similar, or indeed more rapid, the second time around. If significant results are obtained, we next try Bali. and so on. This will be much cheaper than the zero-G proposal In the interests of science, I am prepared to volunteer as a guinea pig, even if it means turning my back on my chances of being promoted to fourth assistant to the deputy office manager - that's how dedicated to science I am! Dr Peter Lennox School of Technology, Faculty of Arts, Design and Technology University of Derby, UK e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk t: 01332 593155 CONFIDENTIALITY:This email is intended solely for the person(s) named and may be confidential and/or privileged.If you are not the intended recipient,please delete it,notify us and do not copy,use,or disclose its content. Towards A Sustainable Earth:Print Only When Necessary.Thank you. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
