Re: [Sursound] horizontal-only decoder design for line sources
Hi Richard On 23/03/2011 11:08, Richard Lee wrote: I think this is a virgin field of research. But this discussion seems about much larger areas and apart from my crude efforts, no one else seems prepared to report their experiences. I note a deafening silence from the York& Derby Ambisonic Mafia who probably have more experience with large area playback than the rest of the world put together. Silent? Moi?? But seriously, I haven't felt able to add much that wasn't just noise as I haven't had any experience using line arrays That's only strictly true for LF where Ambi is a (crude?) form or WFS ie when it attempts to recreate the soundfield at a point. An IEC Listening Room, 2.5 x 6 x 4m is a "point" at 20Hz. I wouldn't say it was 'crude' as, at the central point, it can be made as exact as the speakers will allow - which may even be better than WFS as the speakers for that are generally somewhat compromised by the need for them to be packed as closely together as possible (plus it's usually only two dimensional at present) While MAG's rE appears to predict what happens when this no longer holds true on a domestic scale , we don't know how listeners react to large area Ambi soundfields. Please do pontificate on this subject but lets hear from those who have tried stuff out so we can test these prophecies. For low orders (and non-line speaker based systems) our experience over large areas is that even though the accuracy of reproduction in terms of perceived source directions degrades rapidly as you go away from the centre, the sound field remains "believable" over a reasonably large area. For instance, I often demo our 16 speaker rig in our Rymer auditorium (4 up, 8 around, 4 down under the audience, mostly Diamond V's - thanks Richard) using the fireworks and Concorde fly-past recordings from the Ambisonia site and, although directions go wrong off-centre, they are still incredibly believable and natural feeling - and that's first order! Dave You probably do need special decoders for horizontal ambi with "line" sources, but what these need to do is a new field. I can only report from my small experiments, that a normal Classic Decoder seems to work well. Interesting - someone want to donate a bunch of good quality line sources so's we can do the research? :-) Dave that's another thing worth exploring: the funktion one guys have reported that ambi rigs have an advantage in this respect, because the ratio of useful loudness inside to leaked emission outside of the array is better than with stereo (or maybe even conventional four-point) playback systems. This is very obvious even for domestic ambi systems. As well as the very real sense of something real happening within the circle of speakers when "viewed" from outside. Peter Lennox thinks it's just glorified stereo but the effect is so startling that it must be more than that. [1] Loudspeakers and the Stereo Seat - G Millward, HFN, 1981? ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- These are my own views and may or may not be shared by my employer /*/ /* Dave Malham http://music.york.ac.uk/staff/research/dave-malham/ */ /* Music Research Centre */ /* Department of Music"http://music.york.ac.uk/"; */ /* The University of York Phone 01904 432448*/ /* Heslington Fax 01904 432450*/ /* York YO10 5DD */ /* UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' */ /*"http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/mustech/3d_audio/"; */ /*/ ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
[Sursound] Multichannel audio players (hardware)
Dear sursounders, maybe this subject has already been deeply discussed, but I think I missed it. Are you aware of any hardware device able to play several audio channels (up to 16 let say) without the need of a particular encoding format? Even if a commercial product could be interesting for me, a simple, cheap, OEM multichannel card would be (even more) perfect as well. Of course I am not looking for a hardware workstation as TASCAM X-48, but a simple player for an external hard disk or SD cards, or anything else who can support multichannel audio. Thanks for help! Simone -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20110323/0aa857be/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Multichannel audio players (hardware)
Hi Simone, On 23.03.2011, at 14:47, Simone Fontana wrote: > Are you aware of any hardware device able to play several audio channels (up > to 16 let say) without the need of a particular encoding format? two CoreAudio / ASIO audio 8ch audio interfaces connected to a computer should do. And I'll believe you'll need a computer since you want to play back files containing discrete channels since the various encoders I know support only up to 8 channels. An alternative I'm aware of would be a standalone player like the JoeCo BlackBox: http://www.joeco.co.uk/main/BBP_introduction.html Regards, Andrew ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
[Sursound] R: Multichannel audio players (hardware)
Thank you Andrew, BlackBox looks exactly like what I was looking for! It should cost around 2000 euro (in Italy only the recorder is distributed, at 1950 euro) I would like to avoid a computer in the chain. There is also this one, http://xspat.aegweb.it/new/inglese/x_ingplayer.html, but honestly I do not know what to think about it. It costs 1600 euro and it is made in Italy. Anyone can give me some feedback on this product-company? Cheers Simone -Messaggio originale- Da: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] Per conto di Andrew Levine Inviato: mercoledì 23 marzo 2011 14.59 A: Surround Sound discussion group Oggetto: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel audio players (hardware) Hi Simone, On 23.03.2011, at 14:47, Simone Fontana wrote: > Are you aware of any hardware device able to play several audio channels (up > to 16 let say) without the need of a particular encoding format? two CoreAudio / ASIO audio 8ch audio interfaces connected to a computer should do. And I'll believe you'll need a computer since you want to play back files containing discrete channels since the various encoders I know support only up to 8 channels. An alternative I'm aware of would be a standalone player like the JoeCo BlackBox: http://www.joeco.co.uk/main/BBP_introduction.html Regards, Andrew ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] R: Multichannel audio players (hardware)
Hi again Simone, On 23.03.2011, at 15:18, Simone Fontana wrote: > Thank you Andrew, BlackBox looks exactly like what I was looking for! It > should cost around 2000 euro (in Italy only the recorder is distributed, at > 1950 euro) > I would like to avoid a computer in the chain. OK. > There is also this one, http://xspat.aegweb.it/new/inglese/x_ingplayer.html, > but honestly I do not know what to think about it. It costs 1600 euro and it > is made in Italy. > Anyone can give me some feedback on this product-company? According to the specs it only does 16 bit & 44.1 kHz whereas the BlackBox handles up to 24 bit & 96 kHz. More importantly the BlackBox can play back 24 tracks as opposed to 8 with this device--from USB2 drives, which should be the way to go with large track counts. All in all I'm amazed by the ridiculously high price of the X-spat… Regards, Andrew ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] R: Multichannel audio players (hardware)
On 03/23/2011 03:47 PM, Andrew Levine wrote: There is also this one, http://xspat.aegweb.it/new/inglese/x_ingplayer.html, but honestly I do not know what to think about it. It costs 1600 euro and it is made in Italy. Anyone can give me some feedback on this product-company? According to the specs it only does 16 bit& 44.1 kHz whereas the BlackBox handles up to 24 bit& 96 kHz. More importantly the BlackBox can play back 24 tracks as opposed to 8 with this device--from USB2 drives, which should be the way to go with large track counts. All in all I'm amazed by the ridiculously high price of the X-spat… iiuc, the x-spat is not just a file player, but includes a number of spatial rendering techniques, its mail selling point. at least one of the x-spat people used to be on this list. best, jörn -- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) Tonmeister VDT http://stackingdwarves.net ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] R: Multichannel audio players (hardware)
I have retrieved a lot information from a thread proposed in 2009 by Mr. Luigi Agostini. So, 2 years later, it seems that x-Spat and Blackbox are the only multichannel standalone players on the market. If it is true, it is strange, because I really think there is market for this kind of devices, especially for sound installations (such as soundscapes). There are many software multichannel players out there. I think some cheaper "hard" products should already exist. cheers sf PS.I think x-spat is just a player indeed. I quote mr. Agostini "[X-Spat player] It is a simple, innocuous and friendly tool that play what you tell it to play. No decoding or similar options, what you give is what you get. The content must be pre-decoded or made with an X-spat boX." -Original Message- From: Jörn Nettingsmeier To: sursound@music.vt.edu Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:51:13 +0100 Subject: Re: [Sursound] R: Multichannel audio players (hardware) On 03/23/2011 03:47 PM, Andrew Levine wrote: >> There is also this one, >> http://xspat.aegweb.it/new/inglese/x_ingplayer.html, but honestly I >> do not know what to think about it. It costs 1600 euro and it is >> made in Italy. Anyone can give me some feedback on this >> product-company? > > According to the specs it only does 16 bit& 44.1 kHz whereas the > BlackBox handles up to 24 bit& 96 kHz. More importantly the BlackBox > can play back 24 tracks as opposed to 8 with this device--from USB2 > drives, which should be the way to go with large track counts. All in > all I'm amazed by the ridiculously high price of the X-spat… iiuc, the x-spat is not just a file player, but includes a number of spatial rendering techniques, its mail selling point. at least one of the x-spat people used to be on this list. best, jörn -- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) Tonmeister VDT http://stackingdwarves.net ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20110323/61a1f05c/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Ambisonics max/MSP 8 speakers - ICST Ambisonic Externals
Hello, the link is broken or the server is down.. m -- Marinos Koutsomichalis Music Research Center, University of York Contemporary Music Research Centre (CMRC) Faculty of Music Technology & Acoustics - TEI of Crete www.marinoskoutsomichalis.com On 22 Μαρ 2011, at 8:21 π.μ., Hector Centeno wrote: > Hello Darren, > > You can download the package I made for ambdec here: > http://www.hcenteno.net/extras/ambdec_0.4.2.pkg > > You require JackOSX ( www.jackosx.com ) and X11 (this last one should > be already installed if you have OS X 10.5 or above). > > I also made a launcher that will be installed in your applications > directory, in a folder containing both the launcher app and the ambdec > presets. > > I haven't fully tested this installer so please let me know if you > encounter any problems. > > Best, > > Hector Centeno > > p.s. I don't have bidule so I've not tested those ambisonic bidules. > I'll keep it in mind for when I get a chance. > > On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Darren - Bradley > wrote: >> Thanks I would like to download the OS X version when you have done it >> >> I sent you an email hopefully you got it otherwise please forward it onto me >> when you have done it, >> >> many thanks >> >> also what you think of - Ambisonic Bidules - >> http://www.digenis.co.uk/?page_id=59 ? >> >> cheers >> Darren >> >> ___ >> Sursound mailing list >> Sursound@music.vt.edu >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound >> > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] horizontal-only decoder design for line sources
> [1] Loudspeakers and the Stereo Seat - G Millward, HFN, 1981? > It's > Millward, G; Loudspeakers and the Stereo Image, Hi-Fi News 29, nov84, > according to http://decoy.iki.fi/dsound/ambisonic/motherlode/source/AmbiLoc2.pdf > by a certain R.L and A.H. ;-) Thanks to Grand Vizier, Don Malham, for this correction. I'm in the throes of yet another computer hard disk recovery that's my excuse. > ... to donate a bunch of good quality line sources ... Write a begging letter to the MD of the Unobtainium Speaker Co. Ltd. ... 8>D ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
