Re: [Silk] Splitting the bill
Varies by group. I am also someone who is happy to pay the bill that day and do the math next morning (when I am sober, LOL) and message in some common group chat what each person's share is. I think the right time to get consensus on the modality is 5 min BEFORE the bill is asked for. People have better ideas at this point than when the bill is actually sitting there on the table. Definitely another point that lines up with the "mental model" aspect. On Thu, Jan 25, 2024, 09:16 Udhay Shankar N via Silklist < silklist@lists.digeratus.in> wrote: > > This is a topic that comes up every now and again. Speaking as someone who > regularly organizes group meetups, > > 1. We usually split the bill evenly, because (at least as far as food is > concerned) the entire table ends up sampling whatever is ordered. > 2. The people I tend to meet with tend to order things which are roughly > similar. > 3. Liquor is where this model faces challenges. A teetotaller (or even a > beer drinker, such as myself) might feel hard done by, if asked, on a > regular basis, to partly subsidize someone ordering much more expensive > spirits. > > The solution isn't easily achieved. At least in India, separate checks > aren't the norm, and most POS systems aren't set up for it. Also, keeping > track like this is a tedious and mood killing chore at the end of a > pleasant evening. > > What are the thoughts of the hive mind? > > > https://www.businessinsider.in/policy/economy/news/splitting-the-check-is-no-longer-restaurant-etiquette-in-2024-its-every-diner-for-themself/articleshow/107123596.cms > > -- > > ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com)) > > -- > Silklist mailing list > Silklist@lists.digeratus.in > https://mailman.panix.com/listinfo.cgi/silklist > -- Silklist mailing list Silklist@lists.digeratus.in https://mailman.panix.com/listinfo.cgi/silklist
Re: [Silk] Splitting the bill
I remember the Thursday group from 2004. It was, privileged, to say the least. Not a fan. The misogyny was palpable, locker room sentiment dressed nicely with single malt whiskey. Different groups of friends but pretty much the same model with the split - Those who drank alcohol - alcohol bill split equally between them Those who didn’t - their drinks split between them separately. Food was almost always split equally between all members. Of course we stayed up to date with each other’s lives and we knew/were careful with folks who were going through life changes/had economic challenges and we rallied around them, and took care of their bill sometimes/or secretly subsidised their per head cost. Payment was generally made by one person and everyone else at the table immediately paypal/upi transferred money to them. It’s made for a very comforting environment where there is no discomfort of going out with friends - you’ll either take care of someone or be taken care of. Huda Masood +91 9886796967 On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 at 09:51, Ra Jesh via Silklist < silklist@lists.digeratus.in> wrote: > Varies by group. > > I am also someone who is happy to pay the bill that day and do the math > next morning (when I am sober, LOL) and message in some common group chat > what each person's share is. > > I think the right time to get consensus on the modality is 5 min BEFORE > the bill is asked for. People have better ideas at this point than when the > bill is actually sitting there on the table. > > Definitely another point that lines up with the "mental model" aspect. > > On Thu, Jan 25, 2024, 09:16 Udhay Shankar N via Silklist < > silklist@lists.digeratus.in> wrote: > >> >> This is a topic that comes up every now and again. Speaking as someone >> who regularly organizes group meetups, >> >> 1. We usually split the bill evenly, because (at least as far as food is >> concerned) the entire table ends up sampling whatever is ordered. >> 2. The people I tend to meet with tend to order things which are roughly >> similar. >> 3. Liquor is where this model faces challenges. A teetotaller (or even a >> beer drinker, such as myself) might feel hard done by, if asked, on a >> regular basis, to partly subsidize someone ordering much more expensive >> spirits. >> >> The solution isn't easily achieved. At least in India, separate checks >> aren't the norm, and most POS systems aren't set up for it. Also, keeping >> track like this is a tedious and mood killing chore at the end of a >> pleasant evening. >> >> What are the thoughts of the hive mind? >> >> >> https://www.businessinsider.in/policy/economy/news/splitting-the-check-is-no-longer-restaurant-etiquette-in-2024-its-every-diner-for-themself/articleshow/107123596.cms >> >> -- >> >> ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com)) >> >> -- >> Silklist mailing list >> Silklist@lists.digeratus.in >> https://mailman.panix.com/listinfo.cgi/silklist >> > -- > Silklist mailing list > Silklist@lists.digeratus.in > https://mailman.panix.com/listinfo.cgi/silklist > -- Silklist mailing list Silklist@lists.digeratus.in https://mailman.panix.com/listinfo.cgi/silklist
Re: [Silk] Splitting the bill
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024, 09:16 Udhay Shankar N via Silklist < silklist@lists.digeratus.in> wrote: > > > 3. Liquor is where this model faces challenges. A teetotaller (or even a > beer drinker, such as myself) might feel hard done by, if asked, on a > regular basis, to partly subsidize someone ordering much more expensive > spirits. > Aside from the liquor issue, there is also the thing that (at least in India) meat dishes tend to cost more than than no-meat options. A vegetarian (and non-drinker) friend has begun refusing night-out invitations because they finally got fed up of splitting the bill evenly. -- Silklist mailing list Silklist@lists.digeratus.in https://mailman.panix.com/listinfo.cgi/silklist
Re: [Silk] Splitting the bill
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 4:13 PM Peter Griffin via Silklist < silklist@lists.digeratus.in> wrote: Aside from the liquor issue, there is also the thing that (at least in > India) meat dishes tend to cost more than than no-meat options. A > vegetarian (and non-drinker) friend has begun refusing night-out > invitations because they finally got fed up of splitting the bill evenly. > There have also been occasions, such as with a particular member of this list, where he unilaterally decided to contribute an amount that was significantly more than the even split per head because he felt his share was more (actually, he usually contributed more than his share). This is conceptually somewhat akin to Chris' "throw $20 bills until the problem goes away" approach. :) Udhay -- ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com)) -- Silklist mailing list Silklist@lists.digeratus.in https://mailman.panix.com/listinfo.cgi/silklist
Re: [Silk] Splitting the bill
> There have also been occasions, such as with a particular member of this > list, where he unilaterally decided to contribute an amount that was > significantly more than the even split per head because he felt his share > was more (actually, he usually contributed more than his share). This is > conceptually somewhat akin to Chris' "throw $20 bills until the problem > goes away" approach. :) > > During some of my more penurious phases, I have been the recipient of very tactful generosity from friends who have chosen cheaper places to meet, or done things like put down a large note that more than covered their share and say, “just pay the rest,” or say it’s a treat when there was no actual occasion, or say, “next time you pay” (when meetings were rare because geography, and of course repeating that the next time), or say, “this is my town; you pay when we’re in Bombay” and then either fight for the bill in Bombay or choose cheaper places. I have never forgotten those kindnesses and have tried to pay forward both tact and generosity in better times. (A couple of people — who are mutual friends, Udhay, and I think on this list though I don’t see them post — go to such devious lengths to intercept the bill before it even gets to the table that one is left in such awe and admiration that one can’t really say anything and just try and top them the next time.) -- Silklist mailing list Silklist@lists.digeratus.in https://mailman.panix.com/listinfo.cgi/silklist
Re: [Silk] Splitting the bill
On 1/24/24 10:16 PM, Udhay Shankar N via Silklist wrote: Very interesting thought. The most thought-provoking part is "changing your mental model" which resonated with me, because the mental model which causes this to be an issue in the first place is "Am I being taken advantage of?" (which is completely different from "Can I afford this?" which requires a separate thread, I think.) Yes ... I grew up in a household where my father tracked every penny of expenses and basically invented a double-entry bookkeeping system so he could resolve his cash accounts Sunday night. I guess it was "fun" for him, but hell for everyone else when he wandered the house saying "where did I spent twelve cents?". It came both from a history of not having enough (he lived through WWII in Germany) and a fear of being taken advantage of ... which I, somewhat unfortunately, inherited. Those two things were very intertwined in my attitude towards money, and this experience was a big step in learning to let go of them. -- Silklist mailing list Silklist@lists.digeratus.in https://mailman.panix.com/listinfo.cgi/silklist
Re: [Silk] Splitting the bill
Tell me then, in what other areas of your life have you applied the new learnings with money? I find the human relationship with money extraordinarily interesting. My current social experiment is asking how much could I pay them to take a 3 minute cold shower every day, for a whole year. No hot water before or after. I’ve had no takers so far. Everyone wriggles out with some condition or the other. No amount of money is incentive enough. But they’d happily do it if family was in danger or they could work half time for the same pay. I find that very telling. Huda Masood +91 9886796967 On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 at 18:27, Christopher A Kantarjiev via Silklist < silklist@lists.digeratus.in> wrote: > On 1/24/24 10:16 PM, Udhay Shankar N via Silklist wrote: > > > Very interesting thought. The most thought-provoking part is "changing > > your mental model" which resonated with me, because the mental model > > which causes this to be an issue in the first place is "Am I being taken > > advantage of?" (which is completely different from "Can I afford this?" > > which requires a separate thread, I think.) > > Yes ... I grew up in a household where my father tracked every penny of > expenses and basically invented a double-entry bookkeeping system so he > could resolve his cash accounts Sunday night. I guess it was "fun" for > him, but hell for everyone else when he wandered the house saying "where > did I spent twelve cents?". > > It came both from a history of not having enough (he lived through WWII > in Germany) and a fear of being taken advantage of ... which I, somewhat > unfortunately, inherited. > > Those two things were very intertwined in my attitude towards money, and > this experience was a big step in learning to let go of them. > > > -- > Silklist mailing list > Silklist@lists.digeratus.in > https://mailman.panix.com/listinfo.cgi/silklist > -- Silklist mailing list Silklist@lists.digeratus.in https://mailman.panix.com/listinfo.cgi/silklist
Re: [Silk] Splitting the bill
I would do the shower thing for somewhere between USD$100 and USD$500 per day. ($100 is probably not enough, $500 definitely is.) One learning about money is that looking at investments daily makes me unhappy and that for me the "asymmetry of happiness" is real - that losing $100 makes me more unhappy than winning $100 would (and it's not just about the non-linearity of the value of money, but it may be an endowment effect). So in circumstances where good and bad things are both likely to happen relatively frequently I try to "smooth out" the frequency by checking less often. On Fri, 26 Jan 2024 at 07:52, Huda Masood via Silklist < silklist@lists.digeratus.in> wrote: > Tell me then, in what other areas of your life have you applied the new > learnings with money? > > I find the human relationship with money extraordinarily interesting. My > current social experiment is asking how much could I pay them to take a 3 > minute cold shower every day, for a whole year. No hot water before or > after. > > I’ve had no takers so far. Everyone wriggles out with some condition or > the other. No amount of money is incentive enough. > > But they’d happily do it if family was in danger or they could work half > time for the same pay. > > I find that very telling. > > Huda Masood > +91 9886796967 > > > On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 at 18:27, Christopher A Kantarjiev via Silklist < > silklist@lists.digeratus.in> wrote: > >> On 1/24/24 10:16 PM, Udhay Shankar N via Silklist wrote: >> >> > Very interesting thought. The most thought-provoking part is "changing >> > your mental model" which resonated with me, because the mental model >> > which causes this to be an issue in the first place is "Am I being >> taken >> > advantage of?" (which is completely different from "Can I afford this?" >> > which requires a separate thread, I think.) >> >> Yes ... I grew up in a household where my father tracked every penny of >> expenses and basically invented a double-entry bookkeeping system so he >> could resolve his cash accounts Sunday night. I guess it was "fun" for >> him, but hell for everyone else when he wandered the house saying "where >> did I spent twelve cents?". >> >> It came both from a history of not having enough (he lived through WWII >> in Germany) and a fear of being taken advantage of ... which I, somewhat >> unfortunately, inherited. >> >> Those two things were very intertwined in my attitude towards money, and >> this experience was a big step in learning to let go of them. >> >> >> -- >> Silklist mailing list >> Silklist@lists.digeratus.in >> https://mailman.panix.com/listinfo.cgi/silklist >> > -- > Silklist mailing list > Silklist@lists.digeratus.in > https://mailman.panix.com/listinfo.cgi/silklist > -- Silklist mailing list Silklist@lists.digeratus.in https://mailman.panix.com/listinfo.cgi/silklist
Re: [Silk] Splitting the bill
I've been taking tepid showers for close to 2 years now but what I find an absolute blast is swimming in the cold waters of the Pacific near Canada. Both invigorating and tiring. About dropping a $100 bill it isn't impossible now and then but the incentive needs to be strong: recently my mother's help had a health related issue happen to a family member and it seemed churlish to not help her when she'd gone above and beyond with my father. Both my brother and I contributed in this case. But that is not the same as throwing $20 or $100 when eating out and I appreciate the point about not always worrying, especially when it is reciprocal and simply more efficient. I'll think about it. -- Silklist mailing list Silklist@lists.digeratus.in https://mailman.panix.com/listinfo.cgi/silklist
