Re: Missing two repositories in the GNU Health

[Luis Falcon]

Thank you, Amin!

Everything looks great in terms of permissions and functionality :)

I just sent a notice to health-dev mailing list with all the new repos,
and we'll be testing them, but so far so good!

All the best,
Luis


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Re: Subprojects in Savannah

[Luis Falcon]

Good morning, Amin, all

On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 00:23:17 -0500
> 
> Thank you for your kind words, Luis; I really appreciate it.  I may
> seem to have been the 'key' person in moving this forward, but I'd
> like to give a shout out to the FSF sysadmins (e.g. Ian) and my
> fellow Savannah hackers (like Bob) who do so much great work, and
> whom I continue to learn from. :-)

Let me just share some reflections with you about "volunteers". Some
will stop reading here, or trim it because they might find it "out of
context". That is ok.

Over a decade ago, I founded a humanitarian NGO, GNU Solidario,
focused on Social Medicine. GNU Health is part of this social project.

During all these years, we've worked on projects in countries around
the world. I would say that the most rewarding and learning experiences
has come from the volunteers. What I have learned from these volunteers
is not taught at Computer Science or Medical school.

These volunteers are not in the mission don't think whether they "feel
like" risking their own lives jumping into the ocean
to save migrants; preventing and treating malaria, AIDS and
tuberculosis in the rain forest, or delivering dignity to the
underprivileged neighborhoods. For them, volunteering means commitment.

Dr. Rene Favaloro said "Medicine, without medical humanism does not
deserved to be practiced". Many times we can save lives, sometimes we
just can't, but we should always provide a helping hand. Volunteering in
the palliative care unit of a hospital taught me that medicine is also
holding the hand of the person in those very last moments of her life.

Volunteering can be tough, yet provides the most rewarding life 
experience. Many volunteers don't get money back, yet they commit
themselves to the cause as much (or even more) of paid professionals. In
the selfish world that we're living, blinded by greed and money,
volunteers are making the difference.

Lastly, key people are 'key', not because their technical
knowledge (which you have shown). Key people shine because their
empathy, respect to others, commitment, and willingness to help at the
right moment. Thank you for being a key person in the GNU project, a
project that means so much to us.

Best
Luis

-- 
Dr. Luis Falcon, MD, MSc
President, GNU Solidario
GNU Health: Freedom and Equity in Healthcare
www.gnuhealth.org
Fingerprint: ACBF C80F C891 631C 68AA 8DC8 C015 E1AE 0098 9199
 


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Re: Subprojects in Savannah

[Luis Falcon]

Hi, Amin
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 00:23:17 -0500
Amin Bandali  wrote:

> 
> Is that the description you would like for 'health-hmis', 'health', or
> both perhaps?

The description would go to 'health'. 

I think 'health-hmis' is a link to health. Actually, we don't really
need 'health-hmis' 

The rest is all working good :)

Thank you!
Luis


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Re: Subprojects in Savannah

[Christopher Dimech]

> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2020 at 1:31 PM
> From: "Luis Falcon" 
> To: "Amin Bandali" 
> Cc: savannah-hackers@gnu.org, b...@proulx.com
> Subject: Re: Subprojects in Savannah
>
> Good morning, Amin, all
>
> On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 00:23:17 -0500
> >
> > Thank you for your kind words, Luis; I really appreciate it.  I may
> > seem to have been the 'key' person in moving this forward, but I'd
> > like to give a shout out to the FSF sysadmins (e.g. Ian) and my
> > fellow Savannah hackers (like Bob) who do so much great work, and
> > whom I continue to learn from. :-)
>
> Let me just share some reflections with you about "volunteers". Some
> will stop reading here, or trim it because they might find it "out of
> context". That is ok.
>
> Over a decade ago, I founded a humanitarian NGO, GNU Solidario,
> focused on Social Medicine. GNU Health is part of this social project.
>
> During all these years, we've worked on projects in countries around
> the world. I would say that the most rewarding and learning experiences
> has come from the volunteers. What I have learned from these volunteers
> is not taught at Computer Science or Medical school.
>
> These volunteers are not in the mission don't think whether they "feel
> like" risking their own lives jumping into the ocean
> to save migrants; preventing and treating malaria, AIDS and
> tuberculosis in the rain forest, or delivering dignity to the
> underprivileged neighborhoods. For them, volunteering means commitment.

I head submarine search and rescue and can attest to that.  In this type
of operations, volunteers are fully on.  We have had volunteer diving
teams taking tasks that would not be tackled by police forces.

> Dr. Rene Favaloro said "Medicine, without medical humanism does not
> deserved to be practiced". Many times we can save lives, sometimes we
> just can't, but we should always provide a helping hand. Volunteering in
> the palliative care unit of a hospital taught me that medicine is also
> holding the hand of the person in those very last moments of her life.
>
> Volunteering can be tough, yet provides the most rewarding life
> experience. Many volunteers don't get money back, yet they commit
> themselves to the cause as much (or even more) of paid professionals. In
> the selfish world that we're living, blinded by greed and money,
> volunteers are making the difference.
>
> Lastly, key people are 'key', not because their technical
> knowledge (which you have shown). Key people shine because their
> empathy, respect to others, commitment, and willingness to help at the
> right moment. Thank you for being a key person in the GNU project, a
> project that means so much to us.
>
> Best
> Luis
>
> --
> Dr. Luis Falcon, MD, MSc
> President, GNU Solidario
> GNU Health: Freedom and Equity in Healthcare
> www.gnuhealth.org
> Fingerprint: ACBF C80F C891 631C 68AA 8DC8 C015 E1AE 0098 9199
>
>

Volunteers for GNU and GNU management [Was: Re: Subprojects in Savannah]

[Luis Falcon]

Dear Christopher, dear all
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 17:01:56 +0100
Christopher Dimech  wrote:

> I head submarine search and rescue and can attest to that.  In this
> type of operations, volunteers are fully on.  We have had volunteer
> diving teams taking tasks that would not be tackled by police forces.

Thank you Christopher for sharing and for the work you do! Sadly, many
times the amazing work done by volunteers as in your organization is
taken for granted, and that's part of the reason I wrote the email.

About the responsibility and commitment of being a volunteer... First of
all, being a volunteer is a *personal decision*. Normally, no one asks
you to volunteer. Now, at the moment that you decide to volunteer, then
you should commit to the task, whatever that task might be. People
depend on you as a volunteer, and this can not be taken for granted or
as a frivolity. 

Sayings things such "Savannah is something that is done in volunteer's
spare time when they feel like doing it" is wrong and we should avoid
it. It's not the right message to send to the community. We all make
mistakes and say wrong things, but we should be mindful.


Moving forward, I propose that each official GNU project becomes a
volunteer entity, providing one or more volunteers for GNU. We can
get organized in a federated way, with different tasks, timezones, etc.
The more we are, the more sustainable and efficient will be managing
the GNU resources. We can elect an international board, with RMS being
the head of it. GNU belongs to all of us, and we should be able to
manage it in an efficient and sustainable way.

Let me know your thoughts.

PS: I don't want to cross-post, but this discussion can be moved to
another mailing list if this is not the right place to continue the
discussion.

Best,
-- 
Dr. Luis Falcon, MD, MSc
President, GNU Solidario
GNU Health: Freedom and Equity in Healthcare
www.gnuhealth.org
Fingerprint: ACBF C80F C891 631C 68AA 8DC8 C015 E1AE 0098 9199
 

Re: Volunteers for GNU and GNU management [Was: Re: Subprojects in Savannah]

[Svetlana Tkachenko]

> Moving forward, I propose that each official GNU project becomes a
> volunteer entity, providing one or more volunteers for GNU. We can
> get organized in a federated way, with different tasks, timezones, etc.
> The more we are, the more sustainable and efficient will be managing
> the GNU resources. We can elect an international board, with RMS being
> the head of it. GNU belongs to all of us, and we should be able to
> manage it in an efficient and sustainable way.

What roles would the international board perform?

Re: Volunteers for GNU and GNU management [Was: Re: Subprojects in Savannah]

[Alfred M. Szmidt]

I think there is little point in continuing to discuss how you think
Savannah is run, it is up to the Savannah hackers how they decide what
they wish to work on, or not.  You can call this "wrong" or a
"mistake" -- but it doesn't change the way how the GNU project works.

   Moving forward, I propose that each official GNU project becomes a
   volunteer entity, providing one or more volunteers for GNU.

I suggest you take some time an read about the sturcture and
organization of the GNU porject
(https://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-structure.en.html).  This is what GNU
maintainers already do, and there is the GNU Volunteer Coordinate
team, the GNU Advisory Committeeommietee, etc etc.

Re: Volunteers for GNU and GNU management [Was: Subprojects in Savannah]

[Christopher Dimech]

> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2020 at 9:40 PM
> From: "Luis Falcon" 
> To: "Christopher Dimech" 
> Cc: "Amin Bandali" , savannah-hackers@gnu.org, 
> b...@proulx.com
> Subject: Volunteers for GNU and GNU management [Was: Re: Subprojects in 
> Savannah]
>
> Dear Christopher, dear all
> On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 17:01:56 +0100
> Christopher Dimech  wrote:
>
> > I head submarine search and rescue and can attest to that.  In this
> > type of operations, volunteers are fully on.  We have had volunteer
> > diving teams taking tasks that would not be tackled by police forces.
>
> Thank you Christopher for sharing and for the work you do! Sadly, many
> times the amazing work done by volunteers as in your organization is
> taken for granted, and that's part of the reason I wrote the email.
>
> About the responsibility and commitment of being a volunteer... First of
> all, being a volunteer is a *personal decision*. Normally, no one asks
> you to volunteer. Now, at the moment that you decide to volunteer, then
> you should commit to the task, whatever that task might be. People
> depend on you as a volunteer, and this can not be taken for granted or
> as a frivolity.
>
> Sayings things such "Savannah is something that is done in volunteer's
> spare time when they feel like doing it" is wrong and we should avoid
> it. It's not the right message to send to the community. We all make
> mistakes and say wrong things, but we should be mindful.

These days, volunteer has become to mean "quit when I want".  In these last
few decades, volunteering is a way to  actually engage young people.
When young or adults volunteer, they develop confidence by helping
a cause.

Then there is Pro Bono Publico, a special type of volunteering that
has had a long history.  The term generally refers to services that
are rendered by professionals for free or at a lower cost.

It is this type of work that Dr. Falcon is referring.  It is still
professional work, but carries with it professional liability.

Something that is not currently thought about.

> Moving forward, I propose that each official GNU project becomes a
> volunteer entity, providing one or more volunteers for GNU. We can
> get organized in a federated way, with different tasks, timezones, etc.
> The more we are, the more sustainable and efficient will be managing
> the GNU resources. We can elect an international board, with RMS being
> the head of it. GNU belongs to all of us, and we should be able to
> manage it in an efficient and sustainable way.
>
> Let me know your thoughts.

Sounds good to me.  Such attitudes led by an International Board would
certainly elevate great seriousness to our endeavors.  Outside of Gnu,
it is rare to met people who consider Gnu at such level.

But, there have been notable members of the Chaos Computer Club that regularly
function as expert witnesses for the German Constitutional Court, organize
lawsuits and campaigns, and influence the political process.

> PS: I don't want to cross-post, but this discussion can be moved to
> another mailing list if this is not the right place to continue the
> discussion.
>
> Best,
> --
> Dr. Luis Falcon, MD, MSc
> President, GNU Solidario
> GNU Health: Freedom and Equity in Healthcare
> www.gnuhealth.org
> Fingerprint: ACBF C80F C891 631C 68AA 8DC8 C015 E1AE 0098 9199
>
>

Re: Volunteers for GNU and GNU management [Was: Re: Subprojects in Savannah]

[Christopher Dimech]

> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2020 at 10:26 PM
> From: "Alfred M. Szmidt" 
> To: "Luis Falcon" 
> Cc: dim...@gmx.com, savannah-hackers@gnu.org, band...@gnu.org, b...@proulx.com
> Subject: Re: Volunteers for GNU and GNU management [Was: Re: Subprojects in 
> Savannah]
>
> I think there is little point in continuing to discuss how you think
> Savannah is run, it is up to the Savannah hackers how they decide what
> they wish to work on, or not.  You can call this "wrong" or a
> "mistake" -- but it doesn't change the way how the GNU project works.

Because Savannah is the central point for development, maintenance and 
distribution of
official GNU software, this changes things somewhat - making "let people decide 
what
they wish to work on" problematic, to say the least.  In professional settings, 
it is
absurd.  Yet some people boast that "A Gnu System today runs the computing 
needs of
the International Space Station".

>Moving forward, I propose that each official GNU project becomes a
>volunteer entity, providing one or more volunteers for GNU.
>
> I suggest you take some time an read about the sturcture and
> organization of the GNU porject
> (https://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-structure.en.html).  This is what GNU
> maintainers already do, and there is the GNU Volunteer Coordinate
> team, the GNU Advisory Committeeommietee, etc etc.
>
>

Re: Volunteers for GNU and GNU management [Was: Re: Subprojects in Savannah]

[Luis Falcon]

On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 22:43:18 +0100
Christopher Dimech  wrote:

> > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2020 at 10:26 PM
> > From: "Alfred M. Szmidt" 
> > To: "Luis Falcon" 
> > Cc: dim...@gmx.com, savannah-hackers@gnu.org, band...@gnu.org,
> > b...@proulx.com Subject: Re: Volunteers for GNU and GNU management
> > [Was: Re: Subprojects in Savannah]
> >
> > I think there is little point in continuing to discuss how you think
> > Savannah is run, it is up to the Savannah hackers how they decide
> > what they wish to work on, or not.  You can call this "wrong" or a
> > "mistake" -- but it doesn't change the way how the GNU project
> > works.  
> 
> Because Savannah is the central point for development, maintenance
> and distribution of official GNU software, this changes things
> somewhat - making "let people decide what they wish to work on"
> problematic, to say the least.  In professional settings, it is
> absurd.  Yet some people boast that "A Gnu System today runs the
> computing needs of the International Space Station".

Fully agree. It is not only about "them" and what they do, it is about
us, as a community. We are not, can not, and will not be passive
bystanders. You can bet on this.

As Christopher points out, our projects are hosted at GNU, and the
our project's reputation is at stake. 

Alfred, you seem to be good at sending links and asking people to read
GNU documents now is time for you to read this... several
times: 

National Public health systems today use and depend on GNU
Health today. 

That is, millions of individuals can not become hostages of someone's
will to maintain the operating system or the repository server. Is that
crystal clear? Respect!

Enough is enough. For a moment I thought that we at GNU were seeing the
light at the end of the tunnel, but it was a mirage.

I had it with all this nonsense.

Re: Volunteers for GNU and GNU management [Was: Re: Subprojects in Savannah]

[Christopher Dimech]

> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2020 at 12:27 AM
> From: "Luis Falcon" 
> To: "Christopher Dimech" 
> Cc: "Alfred M. Szmidt" , savannah-hackers@gnu.org, 
> band...@gnu.org, b...@proulx.com, "Richard Stallman" , 
> "Christian Grothoff" 
> Subject: Re: Volunteers for GNU and GNU management [Was: Re: Subprojects in 
> Savannah]
>
> On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 22:43:18 +0100
> Christopher Dimech  wrote:
>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2020 at 10:26 PM
> > > From: "Alfred M. Szmidt" 
> > > To: "Luis Falcon" 
> > > Cc: dim...@gmx.com, savannah-hackers@gnu.org, band...@gnu.org,
> > > b...@proulx.com Subject: Re: Volunteers for GNU and GNU management
> > > [Was: Re: Subprojects in Savannah]
> > >
> > > I think there is little point in continuing to discuss how you think
> > > Savannah is run, it is up to the Savannah hackers how they decide
> > > what they wish to work on, or not.  You can call this "wrong" or a
> > > "mistake" -- but it doesn't change the way how the GNU project
> > > works.
> >
> > Because Savannah is the central point for development, maintenance
> > and distribution of official GNU software, this changes things
> > somewhat - making "let people decide what they wish to work on"
> > problematic, to say the least.  In professional settings, it is
> > absurd.  Yet some people boast that "A Gnu System today runs the
> > computing needs of the International Space Station".
>
> Fully agree. It is not only about "them" and what they do, it is about
> us, as a community. We are not, can not, and will not be passive
> bystanders. You can bet on this.
>
> As Christopher points out, our projects are hosted at GNU, and the
> our project's reputation is at stake.
>
> Alfred, you seem to be good at sending links and asking people to read
> GNU documents now is time for you to read this... several
> times:
>
>   National Public health systems today use and depend on GNU
>   Health today.
>
> That is, millions of individuals can not become hostages of someone's
> will to maintain the operating system or the repository server. Is that
> crystal clear? Respect!
>
> Enough is enough. For a moment I thought that we at GNU were seeing the
> light at the end of the tunnel, but it was a mirage.

There are enlightened human beings at Gnu, with vision as Richard Stallman
had during the beginning years.  Some still cannot see the larger implications
of our work and have a limited compartmentalised view of the world.  I am here
to change that, Dr. Falcon.

> I had it with all this nonsense.

Thank you for bringing clarity to the whole thing and for a time where we
can work together in better circumstances.

[sr #110384] Changing from gbehistun to behistun

[Christopher Dimech]

Follow-up Comment #2, sr #110384 (project administration):

When do you thing the change would happen?

___

Reply to this item at:

  

___
  Message sent via Savannah
  https://savannah.nongnu.org/

Re: Volunteers for GNU and GNU management [Was: Re: Subprojects in Savannah]

[Christopher Dimech]

Dear Richard,

For uniformity, Gnu software should be downloaded from Gnu websites and
sponsored by the FSF, regardless where the original projects are hosted
and how.  This even though many Gnu packages distribute in other ways,
and have done so for a long time.

We must start looking at things in a different way.  We are
loosing long term vision by being complacent on the work being
done against the word required.  One possibility is to categorise
Gnu Packages according to some criterion, so that for some packages,
work can be focused according to specifically defined operational
procedures as soon as the situation falls below a certain threshold.

Luis and myself have some experience on this:  We both work in areas
where major humanitarian crises induced by natural disasters or conflicts,
and infectious disease events (including outbreaks), results in an IASC
Level 3 (L3) Activation to ensure effective response.

COVID-19 crisis is for instance an L3 emergency.

Let's keep this in mind!  There are aspects of life that require us to get out
of our bed to face the world, irrespective of our level of tiredness, 
joyfulness,
pleasantness, or whatever.

Sincerely
Christopher

> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2020 at 12:27 AM
> From: "Luis Falcon" 
> To: "Christopher Dimech" 
> Cc: "Alfred M. Szmidt" , savannah-hackers@gnu.org, 
> band...@gnu.org, b...@proulx.com, "Richard Stallman" , 
> "Christian Grothoff" 
> Subject: Re: Volunteers for GNU and GNU management [Was: Re: Subprojects in 
> Savannah]
>
> On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 22:43:18 +0100
> Christopher Dimech  wrote:
>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2020 at 10:26 PM
> > > From: "Alfred M. Szmidt" 
> > > To: "Luis Falcon" 
> > > Cc: dim...@gmx.com, savannah-hackers@gnu.org, band...@gnu.org,
> > > b...@proulx.com Subject: Re: Volunteers for GNU and GNU management
> > > [Was: Re: Subprojects in Savannah]
> > >
> > > I think there is little point in continuing to discuss how you think
> > > Savannah is run, it is up to the Savannah hackers how they decide
> > > what they wish to work on, or not.  You can call this "wrong" or a
> > > "mistake" -- but it doesn't change the way how the GNU project
> > > works.
> >
> > Because Savannah is the central point for development, maintenance
> > and distribution of official GNU software, this changes things
> > somewhat - making "let people decide what they wish to work on"
> > problematic, to say the least.  In professional settings, it is
> > absurd.  Yet some people boast that "A Gnu System today runs the
> > computing needs of the International Space Station".
>
> Fully agree. It is not only about "them" and what they do, it is about
> us, as a community. We are not, can not, and will not be passive
> bystanders. You can bet on this.
>
> As Christopher points out, our projects are hosted at GNU, and the
> our project's reputation is at stake.
>
> Alfred, you seem to be good at sending links and asking people to read
> GNU documents now is time for you to read this... several
> times:
>
>   National Public health systems today use and depend on GNU
>   Health today.
>
> That is, millions of individuals can not become hostages of someone's
> will to maintain the operating system or the repository server. Is that
> crystal clear? Respect!
>
> Enough is enough. For a moment I thought that we at GNU were seeing the
> light at the end of the tunnel, but it was a mirage.
>
> I had it with all this nonsense.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>