[sage-edu] MathML
I thought for the record I would mention that at the joint meetings someone asked why we didn't support MathML. My impression is that someone began to, but lack of demand or interest has resulted in that stagnating. There are probably benefits in getting some people to use Sage who have invested time in materials written in MathML. I don't have any strong opinions on this, I just wanted to start a thread to revisit the issue. I don't personally have the time or inclination to work on making our support for MathML better, but it might be a good first project for someone interested in improving sage for educational purposes. Marshall Hampton --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-edu" group. To post to this group, send email to sage-edu@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-edu+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-edu?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-edu] Re: MathML
Support presentation mathml as output or content mathml as input? Maybe both? I was told by Steve Linton a few years ago that there is no Python wrapper for MathML but he thought one would be a good project. There is this Latex->mathml translator written in a "mini-language" designed to be easy to translate into python or javascript http://www.gold-saucer.org/mathml/greasemonkey/dist/display-latex There is also a openmath converter written in java http://www.mathematik.uni-kassel.de/~hornp/popcorn-for-openmath "POPCORN is by no means meant to replace OpenMath — it merely offers the possibility to type-the-way-you-think and get syntactically valid OpenMath with the desired meaning. So, it is mainly a rewrite-engine." Related to the presentation mathml issue is mathtran http://www.mathtran.org/mathml/index.html, which does have some python scripts http://www.mathtran.org/download.html. This seems like a remarkable program. There are lots of programs at http://www.openmath.org/software/index.html as well. One idea, since Axiom supports openmath/mathml, which fits the let's-not-reinvent-the-wheel goal, is to beef up the axiom-to-sage interface. On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 9:23 AM, mhampton wrote: > > I thought for the record I would mention that at the joint meetings > someone asked why we didn't support MathML. My impression is that > someone began to, but lack of demand or interest has resulted in that > stagnating. There are probably benefits in getting some people to > use Sage who have invested time in materials written in MathML. I > don't have any strong opinions on this, I just wanted to start a > thread to revisit the issue. > > I don't personally have the time or inclination to work on making our > support for MathML better, but it might be a good first project for > someone interested in improving sage for educational purposes. > > Marshall Hampton > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-edu" group. To post to this group, send email to sage-edu@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-edu+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-edu?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-edu] Re: MathML
On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 6:23 AM, mhampton wrote: > > I thought for the record I would mention that at the joint meetings > someone asked why we didn't support MathML. My impression is that > someone began to, but lack of demand or interest has resulted in that > stagnating. Here's the history of MathML and Sage from my point of view. I think I had never heard of MathML until about two years after I started Sage. There was a guy named Aaron Klemm who wanted Sage to do a bunch of MathML, e.g, have native presentation MathML output for different objects in addition to latex output. I wrote the basic infrastructure and a few examples (e.g., for rational numbers), so he (or others) could implement it, but he never ended up writing a line of code. (I think he was kept very busy with his main job.) I think some people have discussed a few times using a "latex to presentation math ml" converter, since that could be used instead of jsmath in some web browsers. I'm not sure if this ever went anywhere. I recall being criticized by several people at different times at the AMS meeting in San Diego last year, because Sage doesn't use content MathML to communicate with Maxima, Singular, GAP, etc. Clearly the MathML group was talking about Sage and was disappointed. At ISSAC I saw a demo of how content MathML interfacing between different programs actually works when fully implemented in a particular case, and I think I'm glad Sage doesn't use it since it is way more complicated than what Sage currently does, and would take too much work to implement. The Sage pexpect interfaces are as KISS (keep it simple stupid) as possible, and MathML isn't KISS. Finally, I think MathML comes up in a central way in the new DLMF (digital library of mathematical functions). That application of MathML seems like a good idea since it is being used to solve a real problem. Anyway, after all that, I still don't even know what the phrase "support MathML" means. When you write "There are probably benefits in getting some people to use Sage who have invested time in materials written in MathML." what do you mean? I don't know what "materials written in MathML" means, since it's not like MathML is just an alternative to latex. -- William -- William --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-edu" group. To post to this group, send email to sage-edu@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-edu+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-edu?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-edu] Re: MathML
> When you write "There are probably benefits in getting some people to > use Sage who have invested time in materials written in MathML." what > do you mean? I don't know what "materials written in MathML" means, > since it's not like MathML is just an alternative to latex. > > -- William I said "probably" because I don't really know what is needed or what is out there. I just got the impression that some lecture/labs are up on the web in that format, and that some import/export mechanisms in Sage would be a good thing. This is not something I foresee working on myself for long time, maybe ever, but I thought it was worth mentioning the comments about it. I am interested in adding some support for CellML soon. CellML is a markup for mathematical models, with an emphasis on models of cellular and biochemical processes (mostly ODE models). It was driven by community needs and has a good userbase and fairly active development. An amibitious goal of mine is to be able to import a CellML model into an executable implementation automatically - I have no idea how hard I will find that to be though. Cheers, Marshall --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-edu" group. To post to this group, send email to sage-edu@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-edu+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-edu?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
