Re: [sage-devel] Re: ask.sagemath.org issues - do we need it?

[Sébastien Labbé]

On Monday, July 1, 2024 at 10:41:35 PM UTC+2 Matthias Koeppe wrote:


I share the same skepticism about using GitHub Discussions. 
But Discourse would be a direct replacement for AskBot; it is widely used 
with the same user-facing, not developer-centric, role.


I checked Discourse Group yesterday [https://www.discourse.org/features]. 
It seems to be a nice tool that many persons may like. I see it as a kind 
of sagemath related social network. I believe that people may use it to 
share stuff that they create, etc, maybe also for asking questions. But, it 
does not seem to be a "question based" website as it is currently the case 
for ask.sagemath.org. I am worried that questions asked there will get 
buried in the noise. Also who will care to answer questions on a daily 
basis? I frankly believe that the Karma on ask.sagemath.org works. On ask, 
if I personnaly want more Karma, which I do, I need to be the first to give 
an answer and it needs to be a good answer, etc. I don't feel this will 
happen on discourse.

To summarize, I think Discourse looks great. I think it could be a nice way 
of developing a new community of SageMath users (in the spirit of 
http://planet.sagemath.org/?). But I don't think it may be a replacement 
for ask.sagemath.org or zulip.sagemath.org. Discourse, zulip and ask are 
three different things that are not meant to replace one another.

Sincerely,

Sébastien Labbé
  

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/612a710d-4ca6-490e-89f9-2b20814db73bn%40googlegroups.com.

[sage-devel] More than 4096 characters with Qepcad causes an error

[Ani J]

### Steps To Reproduce

1. I installed Sage-Math 10.3 for my Mac M2 from 
[https://github.com/3-manifolds/Sage_macOS/releases/](https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/link)
2. I tried running a program containing QEPCAD. The link for the program: 
[tmp_sage_ani_git_issue.txt](https://github.com/user-attachments/files/16065741/tmp_sage_ani_git_issue.txt)

3. I used the following commands to execute sage: 
```
   mv tmp_sage_ani_git_issue.txt program.sage
   sage program.sage
 ```

### Expected Behavior

It should output the constraints after quantifier elimination.

### Actual Behavior

Gives the following error:
```
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "some_path/tmp_sage_ani_git_issue.sage.py", line 3221, in 
print(qepcad(qf.exists(bdeltaAT2,F3063) ,memcells='1000 +L5000'))
  ^^
  File "sage/misc/lazy_import.pyx", line 409, in 
sage.misc.lazy_import.LazyImport.__call__ 
(build/cythonized/sage/misc/lazy_import.c:6260)
  File 
"some_other_path/lib/sage/venv-python3.11.8/lib/python3.11/site-packages/sage/interfaces/qepcad.py",
 
line 1640, in qepcad
qe = Qepcad(formula, vars=vars, **kwargs)
 
  File 
"some_other_path2/sage-10.3-current/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.11.8/lib/python3.11/site-packages/sage/interfaces/qepcad.py",
 
line 887, in __init__
qex.eval(formula + '.')
  File 
"some_other_path2/sage-10.3-current/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.11.8/lib/python3.11/site-packages/sage/interfaces/expect.py",
 
line 1414, in eval
return '\n'.join(self._eval_line(L, allow_use_file=allow_use_file, 
**kwds)
  
 ^^^
  File 
"some_other_path2/sage-10.3-current/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.11.8/lib/python3.11/site-packages/sage/interfaces/expect.py",
 
line 1414, in 
return '\n'.join(self._eval_line(L, allow_use_file=allow_use_file, 
**kwds)

 ^
  File 
"some_other_path2/sage-10.3-current/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.11.8/lib/python3.11/site-packages/sage/interfaces/expect.py",
 
line 996, in _eval_line
raise RuntimeError("Sending more than 4096 characters with %s on a line 
may cause a hang and you're sending %s characters" % (self, len(line)))
RuntimeError: Sending more than 4096 characters with Qepcad on a line may 
cause a hang and you're sending 65042 characters
```

### Additional Information

_No response_

### Environment

```markdown
- **OS**: Mac M2 Ventura 13.4
- **Sage Version**: 10.3
```



-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/9bb50a3b-7641-448a-9aff-6fae7c4ed941n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Vote: Removing Automatic PR Size Labels

[Matthias Koeppe]

It really does not work this way.

On Monday, July 1, 2024 at 7:21:34 PM UTC-7 Travis Scrimshaw wrote:

> Sorry for the delayed response due to conference travel.
>
> Vote count:
>
> (A1) 5
> (A3) 1
> (B) 1ish
>
> As such, please remove this automatic labeling of PR sizes.
>
> We can have a proper discussion about how to make it easier for newcommers 
> to find good PRs to review, but we should actually have that discussion 
> before adding such features.
>
> Best,
> Travis
>
> On Monday, June 17, 2024 at 3:19:45 PM UTC+9 seb@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> > *The feature might have been wrongly guided*
>>
>> I'm sorry, that was my mistake (see my recent comment 
>> in 
>> #37262 ). This caused that 
>> there is a difference between B and B7.
>>
>> >  *Nevertheless, it would be very unwelcoming to just revert it.*
>>
>> This is the motivation behind Option A3.
>>
>>
>> Vincent Delecroix schrieb am Samstag, 15. Juni 2024 um 08:52:00 UTC+2:
>>
>>> On the material side I vote (A1). 
>>>
>>> On the human side I vote (B). Matthias raised a delicate point: this 
>>> feature was introduced by a newcomer to sage development. The feature 
>>> might have been wrongly guided or badly thought. Nevertheless, it 
>>> would be very unwelcoming to just revert it. 
>>>
>>> Ideally, there would be a "make the feature even nicer" solution 
>>> rather than "get rid of that s***". Though, this requires a concrete 
>>> proposal more than a vote, and I have nothing magical to share at this 
>>> stage. 
>>>
>>> Best 
>>> Vincent 
>>>
>>> On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 at 13:56, Kwankyu Lee  wrote: 
>>> > 
>>> > +1 to (A1) 
>>> > 
>>> > -- 
>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "sage-devel" group. 
>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com. 
>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/cd9f975b-3605-4e98-a165-2a2e1d4ab2b9n%40googlegroups.com.
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/12f3ce38-7b52-4b1f-8852-c316e02105cen%40googlegroups.com.

[sage-devel] sage-numerical-backends-cplex, sage-numerical-backends-gurobi 10.4 release candidates

[Matthias Koeppe]

https://pypi.org/project/sage-numerical-backends-cplex/10.4rc1/
https://pypi.org/project/sage-numerical-backends-gurobi/10.4rc1/

Upgrade PR: https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/38319

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/cd52b6a3-2360-427e-a2f6-741aa2086221n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: ask.sagemath.org issues - do we need it?

[Matthias Koeppe]

Karma and other gamification instruments are apparently available as a 
plugin. https://meta.discourse.org/t/discourse-gamification/225916

On Tuesday, July 2, 2024 at 12:47:48 AM UTC-7 Sébastien Labbé wrote:

> On Monday, July 1, 2024 at 10:41:35 PM UTC+2 Matthias Koeppe wrote:
>
>
> I share the same skepticism about using GitHub Discussions. 
> But Discourse would be a direct replacement for AskBot; it is widely used 
> with the same user-facing, not developer-centric, role.
>
>
> I checked Discourse Group yesterday [https://www.discourse.org/features]. 
> It seems to be a nice tool that many persons may like. I see it as a kind 
> of sagemath related social network. I believe that people may use it to 
> share stuff that they create, etc, maybe also for asking questions. But, it 
> does not seem to be a "question based" website as it is currently the case 
> for ask.sagemath.org. I am worried that questions asked there will get 
> buried in the noise. Also who will care to answer questions on a daily 
> basis? I frankly believe that the Karma on ask.sagemath.org works. On 
> ask, if I personnaly want more Karma, which I do, I need to be the first to 
> give an answer and it needs to be a good answer, etc. I don't feel this 
> will happen on discourse.
>
> To summarize, I think Discourse looks great. I think it could be a nice 
> way of developing a new community of SageMath users (in the spirit of 
> http://planet.sagemath.org/?). But I don't think it may be a replacement 
> for ask.sagemath.org or zulip.sagemath.org. Discourse, zulip and ask are 
> three different things that are not meant to replace one another.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Sébastien Labbé
>   
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/68dd0e81-2763-4fa9-a798-0b64d288412cn%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: ask.sagemath.org issues - do we need it?

[Dima Pasechnik]

On 2 July 2024 08:47:48 BST, "Sébastien Labbé"  wrote:
>
>
>On Monday, July 1, 2024 at 10:41:35 PM UTC+2 Matthias Koeppe wrote:
>
>
>I share the same skepticism about using GitHub Discussions. 
>But Discourse would be a direct replacement for AskBot; it is widely used 
>with the same user-facing, not developer-centric, role.
>
>
>I checked Discourse Group yesterday [https://www.discourse.org/features]. 
>It seems to be a nice tool that many persons may like. I see it as a kind 
>of sagemath related social network. I believe that people may use it to 
>share stuff that they create, etc, maybe also for asking questions. But, it 
>does not seem to be a "question based" website as it is currently the case 
>for ask.sagemath.org.

you might look instead at something like
https://discourse.jupyter.org, 
which obviously functions mostly as a question  collection of forums.
(e.g. cf.
)

There is no numerical karma points on Jupyter Discourse - but it can be turned 
on:




 I am worried that questions asked there will get 
>buried in the noise. Also who will care to answer questions on a daily 
>basis? I frankly believe that the Karma on ask.sagemath.org works. On ask, 
>if I personnaly want more Karma, which I do, I need to be the first to give 
>an answer and it needs to be a good answer, etc. I don't feel this will 
>happen on discourse.

we can turn Karma on.

>
>To summarize, I think Discourse looks great. I think it could be a nice way 
>of developing a new community of SageMath users (in the spirit of 
>http://planet.sagemath.org/?). But I don't think it may be a replacement 
>for ask.sagemath.org or zulip.sagemath.org. Discourse, zulip and ask are 
>three different things that are not meant to replace one another.

Discourse is not meant to be as interactive as zulip, but it definitely can 
replace askbot - which is clearly a legacy, a digital debt which has to be 
restructured and paid off, otherwise one day it comes crushing down.
Discourse has many things askbot does not have, e.g. posting by email.
And it can be self hosted - if desired.

E.g. we can think of hosting Discourse where we currently host askbot.

Best,
Dima


>
>Sincerely,
>
>Sébastien Labbé
>  
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/8FE28878-78B3-4240-99AD-6CD9AD191EC2%40gmail.com.

[sage-devel] Pollard Lambda fails to find valid discrete logarithm

[Georgi Guninski]

I think this is a bug:

```
#Author Georgi Guninski

p=90887;Kp=GF(p);g=Kp(2);X=46712;a=X*g
print(a==X*g)
Y=discrete_log_lambda(a,g,operation="+",bounds=(1,p))

-> 1076 raise ValueError("Pollard Lambda failed to find a log")
ValueError: Pollard Lambda failed to find a log
```

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAGUWgD9Ox1eBG66pZuMnOws4C60OBc6Net5bbSY5PEy_dhCChA%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: ask.sagemath.org issues - do we need it?

[Dima Pasechnik]

On Tue, Jul 2, 2024 at 3:35 PM Matthias Koeppe  wrote:
>
> Karma and other gamification instruments are apparently available as a 
> plugin. https://meta.discourse.org/t/discourse-gamification/225916

This one doesn't seem to be available in our test installation.
It could be it's only available for self-hosted installs.


>
> On Tuesday, July 2, 2024 at 12:47:48 AM UTC-7 Sébastien Labbé wrote:
>>
>> On Monday, July 1, 2024 at 10:41:35 PM UTC+2 Matthias Koeppe wrote:
>>
>>
>> I share the same skepticism about using GitHub Discussions.
>> But Discourse would be a direct replacement for AskBot; it is widely used 
>> with the same user-facing, not developer-centric, role.
>>
>>
>> I checked Discourse Group yesterday [https://www.discourse.org/features]. It 
>> seems to be a nice tool that many persons may like. I see it as a kind of 
>> sagemath related social network. I believe that people may use it to share 
>> stuff that they create, etc, maybe also for asking questions. But, it does 
>> not seem to be a "question based" website as it is currently the case for 
>> ask.sagemath.org. I am worried that questions asked there will get buried in 
>> the noise. Also who will care to answer questions on a daily basis? I 
>> frankly believe that the Karma on ask.sagemath.org works. On ask, if I 
>> personnaly want more Karma, which I do, I need to be the first to give an 
>> answer and it needs to be a good answer, etc. I don't feel this will happen 
>> on discourse.
>>
>> To summarize, I think Discourse looks great. I think it could be a nice way 
>> of developing a new community of SageMath users (in the spirit of 
>> http://planet.sagemath.org/?). But I don't think it may be a replacement for 
>> ask.sagemath.org or zulip.sagemath.org. Discourse, zulip and ask are three 
>> different things that are not meant to replace one another.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Sébastien Labbé
>>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "sage-devel" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/68dd0e81-2763-4fa9-a798-0b64d288412cn%40googlegroups.com.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAAWYfq0rUBU5qQDP4gjZZKtatV7RY%2B2RAWV-95b6X-W1X1O6Og%40mail.gmail.com.

[sage-devel] Re: gfortran error in installation of cbc

[Matthias Koeppe]

Please try with a more recent version of Sage (yours is 10.0.beta2 per 
config.log; we have updated gfortran since then) and in 
particular https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/38319, which updates the 
sage-numerical-backends-... packages.
10.0.beta2

On Tuesday, July 2, 2024 at 7:36:44 AM UTC-7 Jan V. wrote:

> Hi,
>
> as mentioned in 
> https://pypi.org/project/sage-numerical-backends-coin/10.4rc2/
> I tried to run the command "sage -i cbc" in order to resolve an error 
> occuring in an installation of a tool using Gurobi, as the file 
> '/opt/sage_numerical_backends_gurobi-9.3.1.tar.gz' does not exist on my pc. 
> However, installing cbc results in an error due to gfortran, see the 
> log-file, which is zipped due to its excessive size. 
>
> Thanks in advance for your help!
>
> Jan
>
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/a437e5a7-7464-43de-b29d-c1ebbf36333en%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: ask.sagemath.org issues - do we need it?

[Matthias Koeppe]

On Tuesday, July 2, 2024 at 10:27:34 AM UTC-7 Dima Pasechnik wrote:

On Tue, Jul 2, 2024 at 3:35 PM Matthias Koeppe  
wrote: 
> 
> Karma and other gamification instruments are apparently available as a 
plugin. https://meta.discourse.org/t/discourse-gamification/225916 

This one doesn't seem to be available in our test installation. 
It could be it's only available for self-hosted installs.


The current test installation https://sagemath-test.discourse.group/ is my 
free trial of a "Standard" plan (https://www.discourse.org/pricing). 
Gamification would be additional feature of the "Business" plan 
(https://www.discourse.org/pricing).

However, my Discourse contacts indicated that as an open source project we 
may be eligible for free hosting (https://free.discourse.group/); I'm not 
sure but I think that may include the full feature set. I have applied for 
it and will report back.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/a7565083-020d-4d15-9645-25bb8665824fn%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Error in I.variety(algorithm='msolve', proof=False)

[Dima Pasechnik]

Given that on the input we discuss that answers returned by msolve don't make 
sense,
we should leave it in place.

IMHO msolve tries to find a univariate representation for the solutions, and so 
it needs a  big field to work in - and I don't even know whether there any 
pitfalls with this approach for char>0.
(or char = 2, often the most pathological case)

Dima

On 1 July 2024 07:16:21 BST, Marc Mezzarobba  wrote:
>Hi Dima,
>
>Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>> So this is due to "0 < char <= 2**17 and deg != elim.degree()" - added
>> by you - which does not make sense to me.
>> Is this "Criterion" no longer applicable?
>
>I don't know. This criterion was suggested to me by Mohab after I
>complained that msolve -P 1 often returned nonsense in small
>characteristic. (As far as I understand, there is always a tiny
>probability that the output is incorrect, but at the time and in this
>case the probability was not small at all.) I know the developers have
>made many improvements since, but I don't know if this particular issue
>is solved or not.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/EB75AB3D-E94F-438D-B6D3-9CA81D28E759%40gmail.com.

[sage-devel] Re: Pollard Lambda fails to find valid discrete logarithm

[Nils Bruin]

That's an ... interesting ... way to do a division, but sure: also in prime 
cyclic groups represented as an additive group discrete log algorithms 
should work.

When I try your example on a version that is reported as 10.3.beta3, I'm 
not getting an error, so you'll probably have to include version 
information and quite likely the random seed to make this error reliably 
reproducible.

Looking at the implementation, there is a low probability that the routine 
produces this error even if there is a discrete log to be found: it tries 
10 random walks and then just errors out. That's by design, so one solution 
would be to just document the implementation as a random algorithm with a 
non-zero probability of failure.
On Tuesday 2 July 2024 at 10:15:53 UTC-7 Georgi Guninski wrote:

> I think this is a bug:
>
> ```
> #Author Georgi Guninski
>
> p=90887;Kp=GF(p);g=Kp(2);X=46712;a=X*g
> print(a==X*g)
> Y=discrete_log_lambda(a,g,operation="+",bounds=(1,p))
>
> -> 1076 raise ValueError("Pollard Lambda failed to find a log")
> ValueError: Pollard Lambda failed to find a log
> ```
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/317c5b47-f2c3-453c-ae05-b5d17bc4fc92n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: ask.sagemath.org issues - do we need it?

[Dima Pasechnik]

On Tue, Jul 2, 2024 at 8:48 PM Matthias Koeppe  wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, July 2, 2024 at 10:27:34 AM UTC-7 Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jul 2, 2024 at 3:35 PM Matthias Koeppe  wrote:
> >
> > Karma and other gamification instruments are apparently available as a 
> > plugin. https://meta.discourse.org/t/discourse-gamification/225916
>
> This one doesn't seem to be available in our test installation.
> It could be it's only available for self-hosted installs.
>
>
> The current test installation https://sagemath-test.discourse.group/ is my 
> free trial of a "Standard" plan (https://www.discourse.org/pricing).
> Gamification would be additional feature of the "Business" plan 
> (https://www.discourse.org/pricing).

It's not listed among the plugins one will get from an upgrade, while
looking at the plugin settings on our test instance.
They either omit it, or don't offer it.


>
> However, my Discourse contacts indicated that as an open source project we 
> may be eligible for free hosting (https://free.discourse.group/); I'm not 
> sure but I think that may include the full feature set. I have applied for it 
> and will report back.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "sage-devel" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/a7565083-020d-4d15-9645-25bb8665824fn%40googlegroups.com.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAAWYfq3uzwgGgfJRw59Rh0rJbCwx12sCkHNH5NVYvzKq2yVMTA%40mail.gmail.com.