[sage-devel] Re: Sage 4.0 plan
Can I use this opportunity to request some reviews for modular forms patches? I decided I'd spend a few afternoons squashing as many easy modular forms buglets as I could, with the result that there is now a bunch of tickets that are "[with patch, needs review]". It would be cool to get some of these into 4.0, since otherwise they will inevitably end up conflicting with stuff people do at SD15, and we all know how tedious it is to rebase patches. http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/4337 http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/4357 http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/5262 http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/5787 http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/5792 (Craig's, not mine) http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/5923 Regards, David On May 7, 2:49 am, mabshoff wrote: > On May 6, 5:53 pm, William Stein wrote: > > > Hi, > > > This is the plan for getting Sage-4.0 out. Help in any way you can. > > > Wed May 6: * mhansen (by 2am) -- patches/todo list so anybody can help. > > * robertwb will have reviewed david roe's > > * mabshoff provides bill with symmetrica bug testcase > > *stand alone* testcase :) > > > * mabshoff fix libtool issue for pynac > > I think Mike already partially fixed that, but we will see. > > > Thu May 7: sage-4.0.alpha0.tar -- ecl; mop up positive review; freebsd > > burcin updated pynac > > (this will better test ecl) > > * wstein, robertwb, nick, mhansen -- > > help with pynac/symbolics doctest > > > Fri May 8: sage-4.0.alpha1.tar -- mhansen's symbolics > > get in david roe's > > patch > > > Sat May 9: Sage-4.0 day -- IRC /merge/referee: > > goal: coverage to 75.0%. > > E.g., > > * wstein or cwitty -- referee implicit plot 3d > > William will announce this separately later tonight. > > > Sun May 10: sage-4.0.rc0.tar (feature freeze) > > * fix singular prompt issue (solaris fix) > > * fix other singular remaining issues. > > singular -> solaris? > > > Mon May 11: fix fallout; malb fix os x libsingular (?) > > > Tue May 12: sage-4.0.rc1.tar > > > Wed May 13: > > > Thu May 14: sage-4.0.final.tar > > > Fri May 15: Release sage-4.0.tar. > > During SD 15: Sage 4.0 release party :) > > > -- > > William Stein > > Associate Professor of Mathematics > > University of Washingtonhttp://wstein.org --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Sage 4.0 plan
> Mon May 11: fix fallout;malb fix os x libsingular (?) > > Tue May 12: sage-4.0.rc1.tar > > Wed May 13: > > Thu May 14: sage-4.0.final.tar > > Fri May 15: Release sage-4.0.tar. Well, my plan was to update Singular to 3.1 and PolyBoRi to 0.6 during the week mentioned above and I was hoping this would make it into Sage 4.0. Of course, I'll also try to address the OSX libSingular thing. Martin -- name: Martin Albrecht _pgp: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x8EF0DC99 _otr: 47F43D1A 5D68C36F 468BAEBA 640E8856 D7951CCF _www: http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~malb _jab: martinralbre...@jabber.ccc.de --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Symbolics and Sage 4.0
Hello all, I've been doing a lot of work recent trying to get the new symbolics ready for Sage 4.0. With 4.0 due out in 8 days, we're trying to do the final push. There are currently a lot of printing errors since Pynac/GiNaC prints expressions differently than Maxima does. Some things still need doctests, and there are a few small features left to implement. If you have some free time in the next few days and want to help out, it'd be greatly appreciated. If you want to try the code out, there is an spkg and two patches in http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/mhansen/symbolics/. These should install and apply cleanly to Sage 3.4.2. I'll try to be around in IRC most of the day tomorrow. Sometime during the day or evening, we'll set up a public notebook for people to try things out and try to break things. --Mike --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Prime Pi
On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 6:36 PM, victor miller wrote: > Fredrik, I just saw on the SAGE days 15 project list you have the > Meissel-Lehmer-Lagarias-Miller-Odlyzko algorithm. I still have my old C > code for this, if that would be a good start. I never looked in detail at > the variants that were made by Deleglise-Rivat and Gourdon, which knocked a > few log factors off. And, I never got around to actually implementing the > parallel version described in our paper, but that would be a good project. > > Victor Excellent, this is certainly much better than starting from scratch! Fredrik --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] papers using Sage
Hello: At a recent NSF workshop http://www4.ncsu.edu/~kaltofen/NSF_WS_ECCAD09_Itinerary.html Hoon Hong (managing editor of the J Symb Comp) asked for a list of papers written using Sage by students. The obvious answer was to look at http://www.sagemath.org/library/publications.html but (a) there is no way for him to tell who is a student and who isn't (b) I know that there are papers missing (eg, Boothby-Bradshaw and Stein-Pernet since they were actually referenced at ECCAD the following day). So, I'm requesting 2 things: (1) if you have a paper using Sage (*especially* if you are a student) which is not on http://www.sagemath.org/library/publications.html can you *please* send at least the title to this list (or to Willaim or Harald me, and I'll forward it to Harard), (2) can someone who knows more people than I do indicate which reference numbers on http://www.sagemath.org/library/publications.html have an author who is a student (eg, number 22 since I think Steven Sivek is a grad student(?)). The impression I got from this conference was that *student* research activity involving Sage is a major plus from the NSF's perspective and more precise quantitative on this might help people get Sage-related grants. Thanks! - David Joyner --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: papers using Sage
On May 7, 2:06 pm, David Joyner wrote: > The impression I got from this conference was that *student* research > activity involving Sage > is a major plus from the NSF's perspective and more precise > quantitative on this might > help people get Sage-related grants. That's an interesting point. That page needs a major update and I'll consider this. H --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Sage 4.0 plan
On May 7, 1:11 am, Martin Albrecht wrote: > > Mon May 11: fix fallout; malb fix os x libsingular (?) > > > Tue May 12: sage-4.0.rc1.tar > > > Wed May 13: > > > Thu May 14: sage-4.0.final.tar > > > Fri May 15: Release sage-4.0.tar. > > Well, my plan was to update Singular to 3.1 and PolyBoRi to 0.6 during the > week mentioned above and I was hoping this would make it into Sage 4.0. Of > course, I'll also try to address the OSX libSingular thing. All three of those things should be awesome. We will see how this meshes with the stabilization of 4.0, but in either case a quick 4.0.1 should follow where we want to concentrate on getting all components up to date so that the next Debian packaging is really up to date. Re PolyBoRi: I would like to see the boost light split off into its own spkg so we can update it easily. Bumping to something much more current would also be a good idea, but I can help out here. > Martin Cheers, Michael > -- > name: Martin Albrecht > _pgp:http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x8EF0DC99 > _otr: 47F43D1A 5D68C36F 468BAEBA 640E8856 D7951CCF > _www:http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~malb > _jab: martinralbre...@jabber.ccc.de --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Sage 4.0 plan
On May 7, 12:55 am, davidloeffler wrote: > Can I use this opportunity to request some reviews for modular forms > patches? I decided I'd spend a few afternoons squashing as many easy > modular forms buglets as I could, with the result that there is now a > bunch of tickets that are "[with patch, needs review]". It would be > cool to get some of these into 4.0, since otherwise they will > inevitably end up conflicting with stuff people do at SD15, and we all > know how tedious it is to rebase patches. Yep, let's get those reviewed and in. Note that we will meet in IRC Saturday to review & merge, so that might be a good time to poke some people to do reviews. I think Craig has started the review of some of those tickets, so we are on the way already. > Regards, > > David > Cheers, Michael --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Sage 4.0 plan
I spend some time tonight on the gcc 4.4.0 porting problem and there is only little work left to be done: I had resolved all issues in Sage 3.1.2, but neglected to merge all the fixed into subsequent releases. Issues from 3.1.2 (3.4.2): * gmp (gone in MPIR) * ntl (Fixed in ntl-5.4.2.p7.spkg, need to add spkg-check before posting spkg) * fplll (update to 3.0.11 - or maybe a future 3.0.12 due to bug that already existed in 2.x.) * polybori - fixes: * src/boost_1_34_1.cropped/boost/mpl/aux_/full_lambda.hpp +230 * src/boost_1_34_1.cropped/boost/mpl/apply.hpp +138 * src/boost_1_34_1.cropped/boost/mpl/bind.hpp +364 * src/boost_1_34_1.cropped/boost/mpl/bind.hpp +531 * src/boost_1_34_1.cropped/boost/mpl/apply_wrap.hpp +81 * src/boost_1_34_1.cropped/boost/mpl/apply_wrap.hpp +173 * clisp - *boom* - might be build problem - will use ecl in 4.0.alpha0 anyway The main issue I ran into was a bug in libfplll that would crash the doctest with some probability. The bug is also in the previous fplll release and I have send a proposed fix upstream, so I am confident we will have gcc 4.4 support in Sage 4.0. At least two people have either complained in IRC, so the demand seems to clearly exist. :) Cheers, Michael --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Sage 3.4.2 released (and this time it is the final one)
Hi Michael, On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 3:37 AM, mabshoff wrote: > > All the bits are in the usual place in > > http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/mabshoff/release-cycles-3.4.2/ I am wondering whether pre-compiled binaries of sage-3.4.2 for Ubuntu and others will be available? I am thinking of testing Mike Hansen's patches for new symbolics which should be applied on top of 3.4.2. Given compiling sage from source takes really long in typical laptops, it would be helpful to have pre-compiled sage binaries of 3.4.2. Thanks, Golam --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Sage 3.4.2 released (and this time it is the final one)
On May 7, 6:41 am, Golam Mortuza Hossain wrote: > Hi Michael, Hi Golam, > On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 3:37 AM, mabshoff wrote: > > > All the bits are in the usual place in > > > http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/mabshoff/release-cycles-3.4.2/ > > I am wondering whether pre-compiled binaries of sage-3.4.2 for > Ubuntu and others will be available? I am thinking of testing > Mike Hansen's patches for new symbolics which should be applied > on top of 3.4.2. Given compiling sage from source takes really long in > typical laptops, it would be helpful to have pre-compiled sage > binaries of 3.4.2. Binaries have been build and should show up in the next 24 hours on the main sage site and then mirror out. We still don't have any Ubuntu 9.04 binaries since the build farm didn't have them added yet, but I hope they will show up shortly. I believe we have at least 8.04LTS and maybe 8.10, but I would need to check and I am about to go to sleep :) > Thanks, > Golam Cheers, Michael --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] loads(dumps(G)) for G a graphics object
Dear Devel, I am hoping to help the push to 75% by adding some doctests to some of the plotting primitives. But for some reason, the following always occurs: sage: G = some graphics object sage: G == loads(dumps(G)) False Nonetheless, no matter how hard I try, I cannot actually find a difference between G and loads(dumps(G)) when I view both of them, look at xmin(), options(), etc. Why aren't they ==? In any case, in plot.py and plot_field.py this is already worked around by sage: G = plot(something) sage: H = loads(dumps(G)) so I'll go with that if there are no objections, but I would much prefer == if possible. Incidentally, sage -coverage does not complain about the current H=loads(dumps(G)) test. Thanks, - kcrisman --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Symbolics and Sage 4.0
Mike Hansen wrote: Hi Mike [...] > If you want to try the code out, there is an spkg and two patches in > http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/mhansen/symbolics/. These should > install and apply cleanly to Sage 3.4.2. > I tried applying to sage-3.4.2, got: [j...@paix sage-3.4.2]$ ./sage -- | Sage Version 3.4.2, Release Date: 2009-05-04 | | Type notebook() for the GUI, and license() for information.| -- --- ImportError Traceback (most recent call last) /home/jaap/downloads/sage-3.4.2/local/lib/python2.5/site-packages/IPython/ipmaker.pyc in force_import(modname) 64 reload(sys.modules[modname]) 65 else: ---> 66 __import__(modname) 67 68 /home/jaap/downloads/sage-3.4.2/local/bin/ipy_profile_sage.py in () 5 preparser(True) 6 > 7 import sage.all_cmdline 8 sage.all_cmdline._init_cmdline(globals()) 9 /home/jaap/downloads/sage-3.4.2/local/lib/python2.5/site-packages/sage/all_cmdline.py in () 12 try: 13 ---> 14 from sage.all import * 15 from sage.calculus.predefined import x 16 preparser(on=True) /home/jaap/downloads/sage-3.4.2/local/lib/python2.5/site-packages/sage/all.py in () 90 from sage.functions.all import * 91 ---> 92 import sage.symbolic.pynac # This must come before Calculus -- it initializes the Pynac library. 93 from sage.calculus.all import * 94 from sage.server.all import * ImportError: libpynac-0.1.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory Error importing ipy_profile_sage - perhaps you should run %upgrade? WARNING: Loading of ipy_profile_sage failed. What's wrong? Jaap --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Symbolics and Sage 4.0
On May 7, 7:16 am, Jaap Spies wrote: > Mike Hansen wrote: > > Hi Mike > ImportError: libpynac-0.1.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file > or directory > Error importing ipy_profile_sage - perhaps you should run %upgrade? > WARNING: Loading of ipy_profile_sage failed. > > What's wrong? (a) There are some known libtool problems. Please check the pynac-1.1.6.spkg build for you. or (b) sage -b does not rebuild all the needed files since some of the new extensions might not depend on the pynac header, but I haven't read Mike's patch yet. > Jaap Cheers, Michael --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Sage 4.0 plan
One more thing: I have updated http://wiki.sagemath.org/plan/sage-4.0 in the wiki with most of the info here, but it might be a good idea to (a) keep it current as things develop (b) add all missing info about projects, i.e. who is working on coverage, etc (c) clean it up in general Signing off :) Cheers, Michael --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] ideas involving sage+maple?
Hi: I just want to pass along some ideas I got from Sage developers at the recent NSF-CDI conference in Rhode Island. I don't know how feasible they are. (1) One Maple developer suggested that the pexpect interface Sage<->Maple could be improved using the Openmaple API (http://www.maplesoft.com/applications/view.aspx?SID=4383). Instead of passing strings back-and-forth, you simply pass pointers, which he said would be faster. (2) Another person suggested that if one was to ask for Maple support in any sort of collaborative project (Hoon Hong suggested that research on interfaces is important and needs further development, for example), the best person to ask would be the guy in charge of R+D, whose name I have forgotten. Is there any objection to trying to pursue this angle? (I have no idea how fruitful it will be, but IMHO it can't hurt to ask.) - David Joyner --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: papers using Sage
David Joyner wrote: > Hello: > > At a recent NSF workshop > http://www4.ncsu.edu/~kaltofen/NSF_WS_ECCAD09_Itinerary.html > Hoon Hong (managing editor of the J Symb Comp) asked for a list of > papers written using Sage > by students. The obvious answer was to look at > http://www.sagemath.org/library/publications.html > but (a) there is no way for him to tell who is a student and who isn't > (b) I know that there are > papers missing (eg, Boothby-Bradshaw and Stein-Pernet since they were > actually referenced at > ECCAD the following day). > > So, I'm requesting 2 things: > (1) if you have a paper using Sage (*especially* if you are a student) > which is not on > http://www.sagemath.org/library/publications.html > can you *please* send at least the title to this list (or to Willaim > or Harald me, and I'll forward it > to Harard), We wrote this paper (and the accompanying preprint containing our code) in an early-graduate research class by Leslie Hogben at Iowa State University. This class was designed to introduce new or nearly-new graduate students to early research. The class picked up Sage quite quickly and they have since been using Sage in their other classwork and research. The paper (Leslie Hogben is the professor teaching the class, Jason Grout is a postdoc at Iowa State, and all the rest are graduate students at Iowa State University): Table of minimum ranks of graphs of order at most 7 and selected optimal matrices. Laura DeLoss, Jason Grout, Leslie Hogben, Tracy McKay, Jason Smith, Geoff Tims. Submitted. Preprint available at http://arxiv.org/abs/0812.0870. The preprint containing our source code (which will eventually be incorporated into Sage, probably this summer): Program for calculating bounds on the minimum rank of a graph using Sage. http://arxiv.org/abs/0812.1616. Laura DeLoss, Jason Grout, Tracy McKay, Jason Smith, Geoff Tims. > (2) can someone who knows more people than I do indicate which > reference numbers on > have an author who > is a student (eg, > number 22 since I think Steven Sivek is a grad student(?)). My references [26] and [27] were done while I was a graduate student at Brigham Young University. [25] and [37] are revised chapters from my dissertation and were submitted while I was a postdoc at Iowa State University. Thanks, Jason --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: papers using Sage
Jason Grout wrote: > David Joyner wrote: >> Hello: >> >> At a recent NSF workshop >> http://www4.ncsu.edu/~kaltofen/NSF_WS_ECCAD09_Itinerary.html >> Hoon Hong (managing editor of the J Symb Comp) asked for a list of >> papers written using Sage >> by students. The obvious answer was to look at >> http://www.sagemath.org/library/publications.html >> but (a) there is no way for him to tell who is a student and who isn't >> (b) I know that there are >> papers missing (eg, Boothby-Bradshaw and Stein-Pernet since they were >> actually referenced at >> ECCAD the following day). >> >> So, I'm requesting 2 things: >> (1) if you have a paper using Sage (*especially* if you are a student) >> which is not on >> http://www.sagemath.org/library/publications.html >> can you *please* send at least the title to this list (or to Willaim >> or Harald me, and I'll forward it >> to Harard), > > > We wrote this paper (and the accompanying preprint containing our code) > in an early-graduate research class by Leslie Hogben at Iowa State > University. This class was designed to introduce new or nearly-new > graduate students to early research. The class picked up Sage quite > quickly and they have since been using Sage in their other classwork and > research. > > The paper (Leslie Hogben is the professor teaching the class, Jason > Grout is a postdoc at Iowa State, and all the rest are graduate students > at Iowa State University): > > Table of minimum ranks of graphs of order at most 7 and selected optimal > matrices. Laura DeLoss, Jason Grout, Leslie Hogben, Tracy McKay, Jason > Smith, Geoff Tims. Submitted. Preprint available at > http://arxiv.org/abs/0812.0870. Sorry; the above reference is the *data* for the following submitted paper. The submitted paper, below, is not on arxiv. L. DeLoss, J. Grout, L. Hogben, T. McKay, J. Smith, G. Tims. Techniques for determining the minimum rank of a small graph. > > The preprint containing our source code (which will eventually be > incorporated into Sage, probably this summer): > > Program for calculating bounds on the minimum rank of a graph using > Sage. http://arxiv.org/abs/0812.1616. Laura DeLoss, Jason Grout, Tracy > McKay, Jason Smith, Geoff Tims. > > So really, you could consider the three references above as part of the same project. The submitted paper: L. DeLoss, J. Grout, L. Hogben, T. McKay, J. Smith, G. Tims. Techniques for determining the minimum rank of a small graph. The data: Table of minimum ranks of graphs of order at most 7 and selected optimal matrices. Laura DeLoss, Jason Grout, Leslie Hogben, Tracy McKay, Jason Smith, Geoff Tims. Available at http://arxiv.org/abs/0812.0870. and the program (which will be contributed to Sage): Program for calculating bounds on the minimum rank of a graph using Sage. http://arxiv.org/abs/0812.1616. Laura DeLoss, Jason Grout, Tracy McKay, Jason Smith, Geoff Tims. Thanks, Jason --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Symbolics and Sage 4.0
On Thu, 7 May 2009 04:10:30 -0700 Mike Hansen wrote: > > Hello all, > > I've been doing a lot of work recent trying to get the new symbolics > ready for Sage 4.0. With 4.0 due out in 8 days, we're trying to do > the final push. Thank you very much for working on this. I am really amazed to see how you rebased all the pynac patches from William and me to version 1.4.3. > There are currently a lot of printing errors since Pynac/GiNaC prints > expressions differently than Maxima does. Some things still need > doctests, and there are a few small features left to implement. If > you have some free time in the next few days and want to help out, > it'd be greatly appreciated. > > If you want to try the code out, there is an spkg and two patches in > http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/mhansen/symbolics/. These should > install and apply cleanly to Sage 3.4.2. I guess the first patch is a collection of my patches sitting on trac, so I didn't read it. Is this right? Some minor comments after reading the 2nd patch: * does new_Expression_from_GEx() really need the new parent parameter? * how does the new _convert() function relate to the _eval_self() I defined to handle numerical approximations? * in the _factor_list() method, the line "if op is not None:" seems superfluous * in the initialization of SFunction, I had removed the find_function() call, since you don't want to overwrite a previously user created function which might be present in previously created expressions. It seems that your patch adds it back. * I don't think SFunction should have a .serial() method. It is useful for debugging but it shouldn't be exposed to users. * can we not use from sage.all import ... in function.pyx? * why is SR.pi() necessary? * the docstring for SR.var() is confusing, since you use it to create multiple symbolic variables, and return expressions if the argument is already an expression * I don't see immediately why the printing functions are in the parent, and not the elements. I.e., why is printing deferred to SR._repr_element() and SR._latex_element()? As I pointed out earlier on IRC, I don't think it's necessary to patch pynac at all for the constant evaluation. You can just pass in any python object which implements a .numerical_approx() method (the python object for the constant itself?) to the constant constructor. This would also remove the need for a lookup table for numerical approximation of constants. This is the first time I saw the default_variable() function in the previous symbolics code. I suggest that this is deprecated, and the functions that need this require explicitly stating variables. Maybe this discussion should take place in a different thread though, since it's independent of your patch. Thanks again for your time and effort. Cheers, Burcin --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: ideas involving sage+maple?
On Thu, 7 May 2009 10:32:56 -0400 David Joyner wrote: > > Hi: > > I just want to pass along some ideas I got from Sage developers at > the recent NSF-CDI conference in Rhode Island. I don't know how > feasible they are. > > (1) One Maple developer suggested that the pexpect interface > Sage<->Maple could be improved using the Openmaple API > (http://www.maplesoft.com/applications/view.aspx?SID=4383). > Instead of passing strings back-and-forth, you simply pass pointers, > which he said would be > faster. IANAL, and I don't want to start a license discussion thread again, but binary linking to Maple might be a violation of the GPL. > (2) Another person suggested that if one was to ask for Maple support > in any sort of collaborative > project (Hoon Hong suggested that research on interfaces is important > and needs further development, > for example), the best person to ask would be the guy in charge of > R+D, whose name I have > forgotten. Is there any objection to trying to pursue this angle? (I > have no idea how > fruitful it will be, but IMHO it can't hurt to ask.) The director of R&D at Maple is Juergen Gerhard. What would be the proposed project in this case? Improving the interface between Sage and Maple? Thanks for the information about the workshop. Cheers, Burcin --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: ideas involving sage+maple?
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Burcin Erocal wrote: > > On Thu, 7 May 2009 10:32:56 -0400 > David Joyner wrote: > >> >> Hi: >> >> I just want to pass along some ideas I got from Sage developers at >> the recent NSF-CDI conference in Rhode Island. I don't know how >> feasible they are. >> ... > >> (2) Another person suggested that if one was to ask for Maple support >> in any sort of collaborative >> project (Hoon Hong suggested that research on interfaces is important >> and needs further development, >> for example), the best person to ask would be the guy in charge of >> R+D, whose name I have >> forgotten. Is there any objection to trying to pursue this angle? (I >> have no idea how >> fruitful it will be, but IMHO it can't hurt to ask.) > > The director of R&D at Maple is Juergen Gerhard. Thanks! > > What would be the proposed project in this case? Improving the > interface between Sage and Maple? Yes,I think that Hoon Hong's suggestion was to try to try to cooperate through the common interest of achieving better interfaces. . > > > Thanks for the information about the workshop. > > > Cheers, > Burcin > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Symbolics and Sage 4.0
Jaap Spies wrote: > Mike Hansen wrote: > > Hi Mike > [...] >> If you want to try the code out, there is an spkg and two patches in >> http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/mhansen/symbolics/. These should >> install and apply cleanly to Sage 3.4.2. >> > > I tried applying to sage-3.4.2, got: > [j...@paix sage-3.4.2]$ ./sage > -- > | Sage Version 3.4.2, Release Date: 2009-05-04 | > | Type notebook() for the GUI, and license() for information.| > -- > --- > ImportError Traceback (most recent call last) > > /home/jaap/downloads/sage-3.4.2/local/lib/python2.5/site-packages/IPython/ipmaker.pyc > in force_import(modname) > 64 reload(sys.modules[modname]) > 65 else: > ---> 66 __import__(modname) > 67 > 68 > > /home/jaap/downloads/sage-3.4.2/local/bin/ipy_profile_sage.py in () >5 preparser(True) >6 > > 7 import sage.all_cmdline >8 sage.all_cmdline._init_cmdline(globals()) >9 > > /home/jaap/downloads/sage-3.4.2/local/lib/python2.5/site-packages/sage/all_cmdline.py > in () > 12 try: > 13 > ---> 14 from sage.all import * > 15 from sage.calculus.predefined import x > 16 preparser(on=True) > > /home/jaap/downloads/sage-3.4.2/local/lib/python2.5/site-packages/sage/all.py > in () > 90 from sage.functions.all import * > 91 > ---> 92 import sage.symbolic.pynac # This must come before Calculus -- it > initializes the Pynac library. > 93 from sage.calculus.all import * > 94 from sage.server.all import * > > ImportError: libpynac-0.1.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file > or directory > Error importing ipy_profile_sage - perhaps you should run %upgrade? > WARNING: Loading of ipy_profile_sage failed. > > What's wrong? > I got a similar error, but a different traceback (ubuntu 9.04, 32 bit, sage 3.4.2) $ sage -- | Sage Version 3.4.2, Release Date: 2009-05-05 | | Type notebook() for the GUI, and license() for information.| -- --- ImportError Traceback (most recent call last) /home/jason/sage/local/lib/python2.5/site-packages/IPython/ipmaker.pyc in force_import(modname) /home/jason/sage/local/bin/ipy_profile_sage.py in () 5 preparser(True) 6 > 7 import sage.all_cmdline 8 sage.all_cmdline._init_cmdline(globals()) 9 /home/jason/download/sage-3.4.1/local/lib/python2.5/site-packages/sage/all_cmdline.py in () /home/jason/sage/local/lib/python2.5/site-packages/sage/all.py in () 92 from sage.interfaces.all import * 93 ---> 94 from sage.symbolic.all import * 95 96 from sage.functions.all import * /home/jason/sage/local/lib/python2.5/site-packages/sage/symbolic/all.py in () 1 > 2 from ring import SR, is_SymbolicExpressionRing, is_SymbolicVariable 3 from constants import (pi, e, NaN, golden_ratio, log2, euler_gamma, catalan, 4khinchin, twinprime, merten, brun, i, I) 5 from expression import Expression, is_Expression 6 from function import SFunction, PrimitiveFunction ImportError: libpynac-0.1.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory Error importing ipy_profile_sage - perhaps you should run %upgrade? WARNING: Loading of ipy_profile_sage failed. I have the following pynac spkgs installed: ~/sage/spkg/installed$ ls | grep pynac pynac-0.1.3 pynac-0.1.6-mh I can't seem to find the file it complains about, but I find similar libraries: ~/sage$ find . -name libpynac-0.1.so.2 ~/sage$ find . -name libpynac\* ./local/lib/libpynac.la ./local/lib/libpynac-0.1.so.5 ./local/lib/libpynac-0.1.so.5.0.0 ./local/lib/libpynac.so The full log of everything I did and all the output from the installation is here: http://sage.pastebin.com/m29fd2be0 I'm looking forward to trying this! Thanks, Jason --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Torsion Subgroups of Elliptic Curves over Number Fields
I noticed something in the code i wrote which can be improved. This is something which was not in Chris Wuthrich's original implementation, so it is my fault. Here's what we do: (1) find an upper bound on the torsion order, i.e. a positive integer N such that the torsion order is certainly a divisor of N. This uses the function _torsion_bound() in ell_number_field.py.(2) For each prime dividing N, find a basis for the p-primary torsion. This is done in _p_primary_torsion_basis() in ell_generic.py. (3) Put together the primary parts. Here's the inefficiency. In step (2) I ignore the bound we have on the exponent of each prime. This wastes time in computing the p-primary torsion basis. So I will change the function _p_primary_torsion_basis() to take an optional parameter which is a bound on the exponent of the order (not the exponent of the p-primary subgroup). e.g. in Jim's example, the bound is 49 and teh actual torion is C7xC7. But when we compute the 7-primary torsion, after finding that the 7-torsion is complete and of order 49, we do not stop, but test 8 points in the 7-torsion subgroup to see if they can be divided further by 7. that last part is obiously a waste of time since we have already reached the bound. I have a bad feeling that I first thought of this within an hour of the relevant patches at trac #3377 being merged, but never got around to doing anything about it. I will do so now. John 2009/5/7 Jim Stankewicz : > Dear Dr. Cremona, > > On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 11:22 AM, John Cremona wrote: >> [Note to other sage-devel readers: Jim initially emailed me about >> this, being a case where (apparently) Sage was very much faster than >> Magma, though I could not reproduce the large difference. I suggested >> to him that if he had comments about Sage then he should email >> sage-devel rather than the individual whose name appears in the source >> code for the function in question.] >> >> 2009/5/7 Jim Stankewicz : >>> Dear Dr. Cremona, >>> >>> After the last message I wanted to test if it was MAGMA 2.14-15(the >>> current version on UGA's server) or the computer. I installed sage via >>> vmware on my severely underpowered winxp eee laptop and even then it >>> took 78 seconds. >> >> Do you mean that the Sage function took 78 seconds? > > Yes, the sage function torsion_subgroup() took 78 seconds on an intel > atom powered eee laptop. In a reasonably powered computer it takes > 10-12 seconds. > >> This is perhaps more of a magma bugshooting >>> conversation at this point >> >> I think it is, in which case you should be addressing your comments to >> magma-bugs (though being slow is not a bug, and if there used to be a >> bug but it has been fixed in the latest release then they will not be >> interested.). >> > > I know, I just included the information I had for completeness. > > Best, > Jim > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: loads(dumps(G)) for G a graphics object
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 7:01 AM, kcrisman wrote: > I am hoping to help the push to 75% by adding some doctests to some of > the plotting primitives. But for some reason, the following always > occurs: > > sage: G = some graphics object > sage: G == loads(dumps(G)) > False > > Nonetheless, no matter how hard I try, I cannot actually find a > difference between G and loads(dumps(G)) when I view both of them, > look at xmin(), options(), etc. Why aren't they ==? Because graphics objects don't implement equality (there are no __eq__ or __cmp__ methods defined), so the default implementation is used, which is "is" (object identity, pointer equality). Carl --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Clarification of Sage and GPL
On May 5, 8:05 pm, Brian Granger wrote: > > A sage worksheet is no more a derived work of Sage than a jpeg would > > be a derived work of Photoshop/GIMP or a .doc file would be a derived > > work of MS Office or OpenOffice. > > I disagree. A jpeg or .doc file is not source code in any sense of > the word, thus the GPL is completely irrelevant (I think we agree on > that). That simply isn't so. To quote the GPL: "This License applies to any program or other work ..." "The "Program", below, refers to any such program or work, ..." FWIW Robert Dodier --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: ideas involving sage+maple?
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 10:32 AM, David Joyner wrote: > > > I just want to pass along some ideas I got from Sage developers at the > recent NSF-CDI conference in Rhode Island. I don't know how feasible > they are. > I guess you meant "Maple developers"? > (1) One Maple developer suggested that the pexpect interface > Sage<->Maple could be improved using the Openmaple API > (http://www.maplesoft.com/applications/view.aspx?SID=4383). > Instead of passing strings back-and-forth, you simply pass pointers, > which he said would be faster. > Yes. I've played with this a little. There is some good example C code in the Maple distribution. The infamous new (new with release 9, I think is was, the current release is 13) java-based user interface uses Java bindings to this same API. Here a few more recent references: http://www.maplesoft.com/support/help/view.aspx?path=OpenMaple/C/API http://www.mapleprimes.com/forum/seeking-c-library-for-symbolic-manipulation http://cpan.uwinnipeg.ca/htdocs/PerlMaple/PerlMaple.html http://code.google.com/p/pymaple (Good idea, but doesn't look like anything is happen here yet.) Perhaps some useful code here: http://dev.se.wtb.tue.nl/projects/chi-tooling/browser/trunk/chinetics/chinetics/solvers/pymaple?rev=1467 So far as I know there is no licensing problem with linking to the OpenMaple API dynamic library but of course to use it one would actually have to install a licensed version of Maple. > (2) Another person suggested that if one was to ask for Maple support > in any sort of collaborative project (Hoon Hong suggested that research > on interfaces is important and needs further development, for example), > the best person to ask would be the guy in charge of R+D, whose name > I have forgotten. Is there any objection to trying to pursue this angle? (I > have no idea how fruitful it will be, but IMHO it can't hurt to ask.) > I agree. Why not? I used to use Maple a lot. Now I just as often use Maple from within the Sage notebook. I would be interested in helping in a project like this. Regards, Bill Page. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: loads(dumps(G)) for G a graphics object
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 9:32 AM, Carl Witty wrote: > > On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 7:01 AM, kcrisman wrote: >> I am hoping to help the push to 75% by adding some doctests to some of >> the plotting primitives. But for some reason, the following always >> occurs: >> >> sage: G = some graphics object >> sage: G == loads(dumps(G)) >> False >> >> Nonetheless, no matter how hard I try, I cannot actually find a >> difference between G and loads(dumps(G)) when I view both of them, >> look at xmin(), options(), etc. Why aren't they ==? > > Because graphics objects don't implement equality (there are no __eq__ > or __cmp__ methods defined), so the default implementation is used, > which is "is" (object identity, pointer equality). > > Carl Ergo, you should implement __cmp__. William --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Symbolics and Sage 4.0
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Jason Grout wrote: > > Jaap Spies wrote: >> Mike Hansen wrote: >> >> Hi Mike >> [...] >>> If you want to try the code out, there is an spkg and two patches in >>> http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/mhansen/symbolics/. These should >>> install and apply cleanly to Sage 3.4.2. >>> >> >> I tried applying to sage-3.4.2, got: >> [j...@paix sage-3.4.2]$ ./sage >> -- >> | Sage Version 3.4.2, Release Date: 2009-05-04 | >> | Type notebook() for the GUI, and license() for information. | >> -- >> --- >> ImportError Traceback (most recent call last) >> >> /home/jaap/downloads/sage-3.4.2/local/lib/python2.5/site-packages/IPython/ipmaker.pyc >> in force_import(modname) >> 64 reload(sys.modules[modname]) >> 65 else: >> ---> 66 __import__(modname) >> 67 >> 68 >> >> /home/jaap/downloads/sage-3.4.2/local/bin/ipy_profile_sage.py in () >> 5 preparser(True) >> 6 >> > 7 import sage.all_cmdline >> 8 sage.all_cmdline._init_cmdline(globals()) >> 9 >> >> /home/jaap/downloads/sage-3.4.2/local/lib/python2.5/site-packages/sage/all_cmdline.py >> in () >> 12 try: >> 13 >> ---> 14 from sage.all import * >> 15 from sage.calculus.predefined import x >> 16 preparser(on=True) >> >> /home/jaap/downloads/sage-3.4.2/local/lib/python2.5/site-packages/sage/all.py >> in () >> 90 from sage.functions.all import * >> 91 >> ---> 92 import sage.symbolic.pynac # This must come before Calculus -- it >> initializes the Pynac library. >> 93 from sage.calculus.all import * >> 94 from sage.server.all import * >> >> ImportError: libpynac-0.1.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file >> or directory >> Error importing ipy_profile_sage - perhaps you should run %upgrade? >> WARNING: Loading of ipy_profile_sage failed. >> >> What's wrong? >> Delete constants.so: $ rm devel/sage/build/lib.macosx-10.3-i386-2.5/sage/symbolic/constants* $ rm devel/sage/build/temp.macosx-10.3-i386-2.5/sage/symbolic/constants* $ rm devel/sage/build/sage/symbolic/constants.so Then teragon:sage-3.4.2 wstein$ sage -- | Sage Version 3.4.2, Release Date: 2009-05-05 | | Type notebook() for the GUI, and license() for information.| -- sage: f = expand((sin(x)+cos(x^2))^3); f # no pause while maxima starts sin(x)^3 + 3*sin(x)^2*cos(x^2) + 3*sin(x)*cos(x^2)^2 + cos(x^2)^3 sage: type(f) sage: Exiting SAGE (CPU time 0m0.10s, Wall time 0m5.37s).# no maxima shutting down -- William --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: loads(dumps(G)) for G a graphics object
> > Because graphics objects don't implement equality (there are no __eq__ > > or __cmp__ methods defined), so the default implementation is used, > > which is "is" (object identity, pointer equality). > > > Carl > > Ergo, you should implement __cmp__. Umm... how would I do that? Or is "you" cwitty? Maybe if one of you pointed me to a "good" implementation of __cmp__ for a similar type of object, that would be helpful. I don't know that I could do that in time for 4.0, though, so I'll keep working on the other stuff with current loads(dumps()) behavior, since it is already in two of the plot files. Thanks for any other input, - kcrisman --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: strange rounding with SymbolicArithmetic
On May 7, 3:38 am, Nick Alexander wrote: > > 1.234567? > > +1 > > > 1.234567?1 is more > > -1 > > Nick +1 on this example... I don't want to look stubborn but let's try another vote (it´s my last comment on this thread...) sage:RIF( 3 , 3.2 ) 4.? or sage:RIF( 3 , 3.2 ) 4.±1 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Symbolics and Sage 4.0
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 9:51 AM, William Stein wrote: > On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Jason Grout > wrote: >> >> Jaap Spies wrote: >>> Mike Hansen wrote: >>> >>> Hi Mike >>> [...] If you want to try the code out, there is an spkg and two patches in http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/mhansen/symbolics/. These should install and apply cleanly to Sage 3.4.2. >>> >>> I tried applying to sage-3.4.2, got: >>> [j...@paix sage-3.4.2]$ ./sage >>> -- >>> | Sage Version 3.4.2, Release Date: 2009-05-04 | >>> | Type notebook() for the GUI, and license() for information. | >>> -- >>> --- >>> ImportError Traceback (most recent call last) >>> >>> /home/jaap/downloads/sage-3.4.2/local/lib/python2.5/site-packages/IPython/ipmaker.pyc >>> in force_import(modname) >>> 64 reload(sys.modules[modname]) >>> 65 else: >>> ---> 66 __import__(modname) >>> 67 >>> 68 >>> >>> /home/jaap/downloads/sage-3.4.2/local/bin/ipy_profile_sage.py in () >>> 5 preparser(True) >>> 6 >>> > 7 import sage.all_cmdline >>> 8 sage.all_cmdline._init_cmdline(globals()) >>> 9 >>> >>> /home/jaap/downloads/sage-3.4.2/local/lib/python2.5/site-packages/sage/all_cmdline.py >>> in () >>> 12 try: >>> 13 >>> ---> 14 from sage.all import * >>> 15 from sage.calculus.predefined import x >>> 16 preparser(on=True) >>> >>> /home/jaap/downloads/sage-3.4.2/local/lib/python2.5/site-packages/sage/all.py >>> in () >>> 90 from sage.functions.all import * >>> 91 >>> ---> 92 import sage.symbolic.pynac # This must come before Calculus -- it >>> initializes the Pynac library. >>> 93 from sage.calculus.all import * >>> 94 from sage.server.all import * >>> >>> ImportError: libpynac-0.1.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such >>> file or directory >>> Error importing ipy_profile_sage - perhaps you should run %upgrade? >>> WARNING: Loading of ipy_profile_sage failed. >>> >>> What's wrong? >>> > > Delete constants.so: > > $ rm devel/sage/build/lib.macosx-10.3-i386-2.5/sage/symbolic/constants* > $ rm devel/sage/build/temp.macosx-10.3-i386-2.5/sage/symbolic/constants* > $ rm devel/sage/build/sage/symbolic/constants.so I posted more complete step-by-step directions here: http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/5930 I also installed a command system wide on sage.math so that typing sage-symbolics will run a clean 3.4.2 Sage install that has the new symbolics code built and working. So for those with accounts, just login to sage.math.washington.edu and type "sage-symbolics". I'm also currently updating http://alpha.sagenb.org, so it uses 3.4.2 + new symbolics: wst...@sage:~$ sage-symbolics -- | Sage Version 3.4.2, Release Date: 2009-05-04 | | Type notebook() for the GUI, and license() for information.| -- sage: type(x) -- William -- William Stein Associate Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Symbolics and Sage 4.0
Hi Burcin, On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 8:25 AM, Burcin Erocal wrote: > I guess the first patch is a collection of my patches sitting on trac, > so I didn't read it. Is this right? Yep. > Some minor comments after reading the 2nd patch: > > * does new_Expression_from_GEx() really need the new parent parameter? Yes, since callable symbolic expressions which you get from doing things like "f(x) = x^2" are just Expressions with different parents. This avoids having two parallel classes that we have to keep in sync. If you can think of a different solution, I'd be all for it. > * how does the new _convert() function relate to the _eval_self() I > defined to handle numerical approximations? Actually, _convert() can be deleted, it's left over from before we had _eval_self(). > * in the _factor_list() method, the line "if op is not None:" seems > superfluous Yep -- it was from the original _factor_list. I've taken care of this in my tree which is at /scratch/mhansen/sage-3.4.2.alpha0-sage.math-only-x86_64-Linux/devel/sage-symbolics > * in the initialization of SFunction, I had removed the find_function() > call, since you don't want to overwrite a previously user created > function which might be present in previously created expressions. > It seems that your patch adds it back. We need this in order to have our sin function match up with the one in GiNaC. There's a check that the end so that it only takes the serial from find_function if it isn't a builtin function in GiNaC. > * I don't think SFunction should have a .serial() method. It is useful > for debugging but it shouldn't be exposed to users. Fair enough -- it should be removed. > * can we not use from sage.all import ... in function.pyx? Not at the top level. Things such as sin, cos, etc. all use function.pyx. > * why is SR.pi() necessary? Compatibility with the old interface. > * the docstring for SR.var() is confusing, since you use it to create > multiple symbolic variables, and return expressions if the argument > is already an expression We can fix this. > * I don't see immediately why the printing functions are in the > parent, and not the elements. I.e., why is printing deferred to > SR._repr_element() and SR._latex_element()? This is for callable symbolic expressions. > As I pointed out earlier on IRC, I don't think it's necessary to patch > pynac at all for the constant evaluation. You can just pass in any > python object which implements a .numerical_approx() method (the python > object for the constant itself?) to the constant constructor. This > would also remove the need for a lookup table for numerical > approximation of constants. > > > This is the first time I saw the default_variable() function in the previous > symbolics code. I suggest that this is deprecated, and the functions that > need this require explicitly stating variables. Maybe this discussion should > take place in a different thread though, since it's independent of your patch. I believe sin(x).derivative() breaks without it. Another thread would be good. --Mike --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Symbolics and Sage 4.0
William Stein wrote: [...] > > Delete constants.so: > > $ rm devel/sage/build/lib.macosx-10.3-i386-2.5/sage/symbolic/constants* > $ rm devel/sage/build/temp.macosx-10.3-i386-2.5/sage/symbolic/constants* > $ rm devel/sage/build/sage/symbolic/constants.so > > Then > > teragon:sage-3.4.2 wstein$ sage > -- > | Sage Version 3.4.2, Release Date: 2009-05-05 | > | Type notebook() for the GUI, and license() for information.| > -- > sage: f = expand((sin(x)+cos(x^2))^3); f # no pause while > maxima starts > sin(x)^3 + 3*sin(x)^2*cos(x^2) + 3*sin(x)*cos(x^2)^2 + cos(x^2)^3 > sage: type(f) > > sage: > Exiting SAGE (CPU time 0m0.10s, Wall time 0m5.37s).# no > maxima shutting down > Works! Great. Jaap > > -- William > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: strange rounding with SymbolicArithmetic
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Yann wrote: > > On May 7, 3:38 am, Nick Alexander wrote: >> > 1.234567? >> >> +1 >> >> > 1.234567?1 is more >> >> -1 >> >> Nick > > +1 on this example... > I don't want to look stubborn but let's try another vote (it´s my last > comment on this thread...) > > sage:RIF( 3 , 3.2 ) > 4.? > > or > > sage:RIF( 3 , 3.2 ) > 4.±1 Given those two choices, I vote for "4.?". William --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: strange rounding with SymbolicArithmetic
> sage:RIF( 3 , 3.2 ) > 4.±1 -2 to unicode or whatever lets you type $\pm$. As for the fact that 4.? is confusing to people who know nothing about sage, that does not concern me in the slightest. I find lots of things that I know nothing about confusing! Nick --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: strange rounding with SymbolicArithmetic
2009/5/7 Nick Alexander : > >> sage:RIF( 3 , 3.2 ) >> 4.±1 > > -2 to unicode or whatever lets you type $\pm$. > > As for the fact that 4.? is confusing to people who know nothing about > sage, that does not concern me in the slightest. I find lots of > things that I know nothing about confusing! Me too, but I have absolutely no idea why RIF(3,3.2) is anywhere near 4, so find this completely incomprehensible. Isn't it the interval from 3.0 to 3.2? I have never used the RIF, mainly because I cannot understand its output. John > > Nick > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: loads(dumps(G)) for G a graphics object
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 10:06 AM, kcrisman wrote: > >> > Because graphics objects don't implement equality (there are no __eq__ >> > or __cmp__ methods defined), so the default implementation is used, >> > which is "is" (object identity, pointer equality). >> >> > Carl >> >> Ergo, you should implement __cmp__. > > Umm... how would I do that? Or is "you" cwitty? Maybe if one of you > pointed me to a "good" implementation of __cmp__ for a similar type of > object, that would be helpful. You = somebody :-) > I don't know that I could do that in time for 4.0, though, so I'll > keep working on the other stuff with current loads(dumps()) behavior, > since it is already in two of the plot files. Yep, if you don't know how to implement __cmp__, then just don't implement the loads(dumps(...))) doctests at all. William --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Clarification of Sage and GPL
I just found this thread, sorry for weighing in late. Note: this is a light-hearted response to a topic which I consider very grave. It's been claimed that the script from sage import Integer print Integer(2)+Integer(2) must be GPL'd. I claim that the above is a sage-ultralight script. I've attached an independent implementation of sage-ultralight that has been released under the SACL (Smart Guy Common License). Unfortunately, the SACL is also a virulent license, so sage-ultralight is GPL-incompatible. Therefore, nobody can redistribute the above code without fear of retribution from me, or the FSF. (evil laughter?) On a more serious note, I do not believe that a Sage script is automatically GPL'd -- and I believe that the FSF agrees. From the FAQ "When the interpreter just interprets a language, the answer is no. The interpreted program, to the interpreter, is just data; a free software license like the GPL, based on copyright law, cannot limit what data you use the interpreter on. You can run it on any data (interpreted program), any way you like, and there are no requirements about licensing that data to anyone." I believe that Sage constitutes an interpreter in the case of the above script. Furthermore, I claim that the CLI (Ipython), the notebook, and the interpreter are no different in this regard. Users of Sage are free to distribute their input to Sage, and the output that they receive from Sage in any manner that they please, as long as their input, or the output do not contain derived work*. "However, when the interpreter is extended to provide “bindings” to other facilities (often, but not necessarily, libraries), the interpreted program is effectively linked to the facilities it uses through these bindings. So if these facilities are released under the GPL, the interpreted program that uses them must be released in a GPL-compatible way" The key portion of this is that *the interpreted program* must be released in a GPL-compatible way. A Sage script is nothing but input -- it does not link to Sage, it does not depend on Sage to run, as I demonstrated above. If a person downloads a Sage script, for the most part, they'll have to install a copy of Sage -- that script can have whatever license its author wants. As demonstrated above, one can write Python code which emulates Sage to a degree that any particular script could be run in Python without an install of Sage. (note, one may freely use the preprocessor to convert Sage code into Python code, and this should not restrict the user's freedom) Compare this to Cython code -- it is possible to release a Cython script as source under the SACL, which dynamically links to GPL'd Sage code. That source is freely distributable, but binary releases may not be made under the terms of either license. YMMV, IANAL, IANAD, etc. * If you make a derived class, for example, which contains code from the original class, that's a no-no -- or similarly, if your session involves introspection. Franco: thanks for sharing Piet -- that's awesome. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~--- # Copyright (c) 2009, Tom Boothby # This file is released under Smart Guy Contrary License (SACL): # # Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without # modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions are met: # * Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright # notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. # * Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright # notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the # documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. # * Neither the name of the nor the # names of its contributors may be used to endorse or promote products # derived from this software without specific prior written permission. # * Derivative works must be released under the SACL. # # THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY ''AS IS'' AND ANY # EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED # WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE # DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL BE LIABLE FOR ANY # DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES # (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES; # LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND # ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT # (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF T
[sage-devel] Re: strange rounding with SymbolicArithmetic
John Cremona wrote: > 2009/5/7 Nick Alexander : >>> sage:RIF( 3 , 3.2 ) >>> 4.±1 >> -2 to unicode or whatever lets you type $\pm$. >> >> As for the fact that 4.? is confusing to people who know nothing about >> sage, that does not concern me in the slightest. I find lots of >> things that I know nothing about confusing! > > Me too, but I have absolutely no idea why RIF(3,3.2) is anywhere near > 4, so find this completely incomprehensible. Isn't it the interval > from 3.0 to 3.2? > > I have never used the RIF, mainly because I cannot understand its output. It's a compact notation for the interval: [4.0-1 .. 4.0+1] = [3.0 .. 5.0] The question mark just means the interval goes from the number with last digit minus one to the number with last digit plus one. For example: 3.5? is the interval [3.4 .. 3.6] 3.293948? is the interval [3.293947 .. 3.293949] More documentation can be found by taking any element x of RIF and doing x.str? You can change the default back to printing an explicit interval by doing: sage: sage.rings.real_mpfi.printing_style='brackets' sage: RIF(3,3.2) [3. .. 3.2002] sage: sage.rings.real_mpfi.printing_style='question' sage: RIF(3,3.2) 4.? Carl, could you comment on the difference between these two cases? sage: RIF(3,3.199) 3.1? sage: RIF(3,3.1999) 4.? Thanks, Jason -- Jason Grout --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: strange rounding with SymbolicArithmetic
Thanks for taking the time to explain, Jason. 2009/5/7 Jason Grout : > > John Cremona wrote: >> 2009/5/7 Nick Alexander : sage:RIF( 3 , 3.2 ) 4.±1 >>> -2 to unicode or whatever lets you type $\pm$. >>> >>> As for the fact that 4.? is confusing to people who know nothing about >>> sage, that does not concern me in the slightest. I find lots of >>> things that I know nothing about confusing! >> >> Me too, but I have absolutely no idea why RIF(3,3.2) is anywhere near >> 4, so find this completely incomprehensible. Isn't it the interval >> from 3.0 to 3.2? >> >> I have never used the RIF, mainly because I cannot understand its output. > > > It's a compact notation for the interval: > > [4.0-1 .. 4.0+1] = [3.0 .. 5.0] > > The question mark just means the interval goes from the number with last > digit minus one to the number with last digit plus one. > > For example: > > 3.5? is the interval [3.4 .. 3.6] > > 3.293948? is the interval [3.293947 .. 3.293949] > > More documentation can be found by taking any element x of RIF and doing > x.str? > > You can change the default back to printing an explicit interval by doing: > > sage: sage.rings.real_mpfi.printing_style='brackets' > sage: RIF(3,3.2) > [3. .. 3.2002] > sage: sage.rings.real_mpfi.printing_style='question' > sage: RIF(3,3.2) > 4.? > Why is this not 3.1? From what you said earlier that means the interval between 3.1-0.1=3 and 3.1+0.1=3.2, doesn't it? John > > Carl, could you comment on the difference between these two cases? > > sage: RIF(3,3.199) > 3.1? > sage: RIF(3,3.1999) > 4.? > > Thanks, > > Jason > > > -- > Jason Grout > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] return type for coefficient,
Hi, this might be a design decision, so I haven't filed a bug report for it yet. However, it seems that coefficient is returning the wrong type when it's called on multinomials. Here is an example code: sage: K.=QQ[] sage: f = x^3+y^3+z^3 sage: f.coefficient([3,0,0]).parent() Multivariate Polynomial Ring in x, y, z over Rational Field It makes more sense for the above return value to be the Rational Field. Similarly, f.coefficient([3,None,None]).parent(), should probably return "Multivariate Polynomial Ring in x, z over Rational Field". Should I file a bug for this? Soroosh --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: strange rounding with SymbolicArithmetic
On May 7, 9:24 pm, John Cremona wrote: > Thanks for taking the time to explain, Jason. > > 2009/5/7 Jason Grout : > > > > > > > John Cremona wrote: > >> 2009/5/7 Nick Alexander : > sage:RIF( 3 , 3.2 ) > 4.±1 > >>> -2 to unicode or whatever lets you type $\pm$. > > >>> As for the fact that 4.? is confusing to people who know nothing about > >>> sage, that does not concern me in the slightest. I find lots of > >>> things that I know nothing about confusing! > > >> Me too, but I have absolutely no idea why RIF(3,3.2) is anywhere near > >> 4, so find this completely incomprehensible. Isn't it the interval > >> from 3.0 to 3.2? > > >> I have never used the RIF, mainly because I cannot understand its output. > > > It's a compact notation for the interval: > > > [4.0-1 .. 4.0+1] = [3.0 .. 5.0] > > > The question mark just means the interval goes from the number with last > > digit minus one to the number with last digit plus one. > > > For example: > > > 3.5? is the interval [3.4 .. 3.6] > > > 3.293948? is the interval [3.293947 .. 3.293949] > > > More documentation can be found by taking any element x of RIF and doing > > x.str? > > > You can change the default back to printing an explicit interval by doing: > > > sage: sage.rings.real_mpfi.printing_style='brackets' > > sage: RIF(3,3.2) > > [3. .. 3.2002] > > sage: sage.rings.real_mpfi.printing_style='question' > > sage: RIF(3,3.2) > > 4.? > > Why is this not 3.1? From what you said earlier that means the > interval between 3.1-0.1=3 and 3.1+0.1=3.2, doesn't it? > > John > I think it's because 3.2 is not exact in base 2, and thus the value we have is just slightly greater than 3.2, (you can see it a few lines above: 3.2002) Yann > > > Carl, could you comment on the difference between these two cases? > > > sage: RIF(3,3.199) > > 3.1? > > sage: RIF(3,3.1999) > > 4.? > > > Thanks, > > > Jason > > > -- > > Jason Grout --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Clarification of Sage and GPL
> Note: this is a light-hearted response to a topic which I consider > very grave. It's been claimed that the script > > from sage import Integer > print Integer(2)+Integer(2) > > must be GPL'd. I claim that the above is a sage-ultralight script. > I've attached an independent implementation of sage-ultralight that > has been released under the SACL (Smart Guy Common License). > Unfortunately, the SACL is also a virulent license, so sage-ultralight > is GPL-incompatible. Therefore, nobody can redistribute the above code > without fear of retribution from me, or the FSF. (evil laughter?) He, he. For the above script to run in sage-ultralight, sage-ultralight must have the same name as sage. Then you get into copyright/trademark related issues (the name "sage" is already taken). Just the same I could create a GUI toolkit named "Qt" that was also released under the SACL license, but you can guess what would happen. Maybe someday a court will clarify what exactly the GPL means...I just hope they don't find that the air we breath is a derived work of some GPL licensed entity. Then, if we breath such air, we would all have to be GPLd :-) Cheers, Brian --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Clarification of Sage and GPL
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 11:52 AM, Tom Boothby wrote: > I just found this thread, sorry for weighing in late. > > Note: this is a light-hearted response to a topic which I consider > very grave. It's been claimed that the script > > from sage import Integer > print Integer(2)+Integer(2) > > must be GPL'd. I claim that the above is a sage-ultralight script. > I've attached an independent implementation of sage-ultralight that > has been released under the SACL (Smart Guy Common License). > Unfortunately, the SACL is also a virulent license, so sage-ultralight > is GPL-incompatible. Therefore, nobody can redistribute the above code > without fear of retribution from me, or the FSF. (evil laughter?) > > On a more serious note, I do not believe that a Sage script is > automatically GPL'd -- and I believe that the FSF agrees. From the > FAQ > > "When the interpreter just interprets a language, the answer is no. > The interpreted program, to the interpreter, is just data; a free > software license like the GPL, based on copyright law, cannot limit > what data you use the interpreter on. You can run it on any data > (interpreted program), any way you like, and there are no > requirements about licensing that data to anyone." > > I believe that Sage constitutes an interpreter in the case of the > above script. Furthermore, I claim that the CLI (Ipython), the > notebook, and the interpreter are no different in this regard. Users > of Sage are free to distribute their input to Sage, and the output > that they receive from Sage in any manner that they please, as long as > their input, or the output do not contain derived work*. > > "However, when the interpreter is extended to provide “bindings” > to other facilities (often, but not necessarily, libraries), the > interpreted program is effectively linked to the facilities it uses > through these bindings. So if these facilities are released under > the GPL, the interpreted program that uses them must be > released in a GPL-compatible way" > > The key portion of this is that *the interpreted program* must be > released in a GPL-compatible way. A Sage script is nothing but input > -- it does not link to Sage, it does not depend on Sage to run, as I > demonstrated above. That FAQ entry which you partially quoted concludes with "A consequence is that if you choose to use GPL'd Perl modules or Java classes in your program, you must release the program in a GPL-compatible way, regardless of the license used in the Perl or Java interpreter that the combined Perl or Java program will run on." Changing "Perl and Java" to "Python" and changing "GPL'd Python modules" to "the Sage library", this reads: "A consequence is that if you choose to use the Sage library in your Python program, you must release the program in a GPL-compatible way..." --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Clarification of Sage and GPL
>> I disagree. A jpeg or .doc file is not source code in any sense of >> the word, thus the GPL is completely irrelevant (I think we agree on >> that). > > That simply isn't so. To quote the GPL: > "This License applies to any program or other work ..." > "The "Program", below, refers to any such program or work, ..." Are you arguing that jpeg's produced by GIMP are all GPL'd? I agree that it is definitely possible to release "non-programs", such as JPEGs, under the GPL. But, in the case of GIMP producing a JPEG, most of us don't consider the JPEG a derived work of GIMP. Why not? * The JPEG stands on its own and can be "used" independently of GIMP. * The part of GIMP that is licensed under the GPL is its source code. I am not sure, but I think it is C++. Derived works of GIMP must therefore also be C++ programs or a program in another language that is able of directly linking to and calling C++. Sure someone brought up the issue of the odd language for which bitmaps are source code. In that case, a bitmap can absolutely be a derived work. But, it doesn't follow that all bitmaps are derived work of all programming languages. Cheers, Brian --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Clarification of Sage and GPL
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 4:23 PM, William Stein wrote: > That FAQ entry which you partially quoted concludes with "A > consequence is that if you choose to use GPL'd Perl modules or Java > classes in your program, you must release the program in a > GPL-compatible way, regardless of the license used in the Perl or Java > interpreter that the combined Perl or Java program will run on." Unless the module used has a classpath exception right? Like Java does. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPL_linking_exception Couldn't Sage include something like this? and can somebody with a Law degree and not a Math degree comment here :). It has been a fun thread. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Clarification of Sage and GPL
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Alfredo Portes wrote: > > On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 4:23 PM, William Stein wrote: > >> That FAQ entry which you partially quoted concludes with "A >> consequence is that if you choose to use GPL'd Perl modules or Java >> classes in your program, you must release the program in a >> GPL-compatible way, regardless of the license used in the Perl or Java >> interpreter that the combined Perl or Java program will run on." > > Unless the module used has a classpath exception right? Like Java does. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPL_linking_exception > > Couldn't Sage include something like this? No, because Sage derives from many other GPL'd programs, and those would *all* have to make the classpath exception as well. William --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: return type for coefficient,
It is a documented feature -- look at the docstring which says
def coefficient(self, degrees):
"""
Return the coefficient of the variables with the degrees
specified in the python dictionary \code{degrees}. Mathematically,
this is the coefficient in the base ring adjoined by the variables
of this ring not listed in \code{degrees}. However, the result
has the same parent as this polynomial.
This function contrasts with the function \code{monomial_coefficient}
which returns the coefficient in the base ring of a monomial.
I do agree that it is a strange design, and would prefer
f.coefficient() to return an element of the base ring.
John
2009/5/7 Soroosh Yazdani :
> Hi,
>
> this might be a design decision, so I haven't filed a bug report for it yet.
> However, it seems that coefficient is returning the wrong type when it's
> called on multinomials. Here is an example code:
>
> sage: K.=QQ[]
> sage: f = x^3+y^3+z^3
> sage: f.coefficient([3,0,0]).parent()
> Multivariate Polynomial Ring in x, y, z over Rational Field
>
> It makes more sense for the above return value to be the Rational Field.
> Similarly, f.coefficient([3,None,None]).parent(), should probably return
> "Multivariate Polynomial Ring in x, z over Rational Field".
>
> Should I file a bug for this?
> Soroosh
>
>
> >
>
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[sage-devel] Re: Clarification of Sage and GPL
2009/5/7 Brian Granger : > >>> I disagree. A jpeg or .doc file is not source code in any sense of >>> the word, thus the GPL is completely irrelevant (I think we agree on >>> that). >> >> That simply isn't so. To quote the GPL: >> "This License applies to any program or other work ..." >> "The "Program", below, refers to any such program or work, ..." > > Are you arguing that jpeg's produced by GIMP are all GPL'd? > > I agree that it is definitely possible to release "non-programs", such > as JPEGs, under the GPL. But, in the case of GIMP producing a JPEG, > most of us don't consider the JPEG a derived work of GIMP. Why not? > > * The JPEG stands on its own and can be "used" independently of GIMP. > * The part of GIMP that is licensed under the GPL is its source code. > I am not sure, but I think it is C++. Derived works of GIMP must > therefore also be C++ programs or a program in another language that > is able of directly linking to and calling C++. > > Sure someone brought up the issue of the odd language for which > bitmaps are source code. In that case, a bitmap can absolutely be a > derived work. But, it doesn't follow that all bitmaps are derived > work of all programming languages. This reminds me of the case of the (large) prime number which in binary was a fully functioning linux progam which played DVDs, complete with CSS decoding. As it was a large enough prime it was posted on the large primes web page. Perhaps that prime now has to be GPL'd... John > > Cheers, > > Brian > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Clarification of Sage and GPL
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Brian Granger wrote: > He, he. For the above script to run in sage-ultralight, > sage-ultralight must have the same name as sage. Then you get into > copyright/trademark related issues (the name "sage" is already taken). > Just the same I could create a GUI toolkit named "Qt" that was also > released under the SACL license, but you can guess what would happen. Incorrect. Python doesn't care what you call your program, it only cares about the filename. If somebody wants to go to court about a filename... that'll certainly be interesting. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Clarification of Sage and GPL
>> sage-ultralight must have the same name as sage. Then you get into >> copyright/trademark related issues (the name "sage" is already taken). >> Just the same I could create a GUI toolkit named "Qt" that was also >> released under the SACL license, but you can guess what would happen. > > Incorrect. Python doesn't care what you call your program, it only > cares about the filename. Huh? Your example had two files or modules: foo.py from sage import Integer print Integer(2)+Integer(2) sage.py == # Your ultralight-sage implementation with... # Whatever your implementation of Integer was Python doesn't care about the name "foo.py." But Python does care that about the name "sage", otherwise the import of sage in foo.py won't work. To get "from sage import Integer" to work, you *have to* name sage.py,well, sage.py. But as I recall there is already a "sage" python project somewhere ;-). I think the authors of the real sage project might have a problem with you naming your ultralight sage module "sage.py." Just like Fernando and myself would have a problem if another "IPython" named project came along. > If somebody wants to go to court about a > filename... that'll certainly be interesting. This is called trademark infringement, and it happens all the time. Remember Apple v. Apple? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v._Apple_Computer Cheers, Brian > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: return type for coefficient,
On May 7, 2009, at 2:15 PM, John Cremona wrote:
> It is a documented feature -- look at the docstring which says
>
> def coefficient(self, degrees):
> """
> Return the coefficient of the variables with the degrees
> specified in the python dictionary \code{degrees}.
> Mathematically,
> this is the coefficient in the base ring adjoined by the
> variables
> of this ring not listed in \code{degrees}. However, the
> result
> has the same parent as this polynomial.
>
> This function contrasts with the function \code
> {monomial_coefficient}
> which returns the coefficient in the base ring of a monomial.
>
> I do agree that it is a strange design, and would prefer
> f.coefficient() to return an element of the base ring.
I agree. I think it's to support stuff like
sage: sage: K.=QQ[]
sage: f = (x+1)^5*(y+1)^3
sage: f.coefficient(x^2*y^0)
10*y^3 + 30*y^2 + 30*y + 10
which is also an annoying interface to work with.
> 2009/5/7 Soroosh Yazdani :
>> Hi,
>>
>> this might be a design decision, so I haven't filed a bug report
>> for it yet.
>> However, it seems that coefficient is returning the wrong type
>> when it's
>> called on multinomials. Here is an example code:
>>
>> sage: K.=QQ[]
>> sage: f = x^3+y^3+z^3
>> sage: f.coefficient([3,0,0]).parent()
>> Multivariate Polynomial Ring in x, y, z over Rational Field
>>
>> It makes more sense for the above return value to be the Rational
>> Field.
>> Similarly, f.coefficient([3,None,None]).parent(), should probably
>> return
>> "Multivariate Polynomial Ring in x, z over Rational Field".
>>
>> Should I file a bug for this?
>> Soroosh
>>
>>
>>>
>>
>
> >
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[sage-devel] Re: Symbolics and Sage 4.0
On May 7, 2009, at 4:10 AM, Mike Hansen wrote: > Hello all, > > I've been doing a lot of work recent trying to get the new symbolics > ready for Sage 4.0. With 4.0 due out in 8 days, we're trying to do > the final push. > > There are currently a lot of printing errors since Pynac/GiNaC prints > expressions differently than Maxima does. Some things still need > doctests, and there are a few small features left to implement. If > you have some free time in the next few days and want to help out, > it'd be greatly appreciated. > > If you want to try the code out, there is an spkg and two patches in > http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/mhansen/symbolics/. These should > install and apply cleanly to Sage 3.4.2. > > I'll try to be around in IRC most of the day tomorrow. Sometime during > the day or evening, we'll set up a public notebook for people to try > things out and try to break things. I just noticed sage: sqrt(x)^2 x sage: sqrt(2)^2 sqrt(2)^2 - Robert --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Clarification of Sage and GPL
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 5:41 PM, Brian Granger wrote: > * The JPEG stands on its own and can be "used" independently of GIMP. Beware... copyright law is more about "copying" and "distribution", than about "use". Besides, when I post a notebook, or publish a sage script in a book, I'm not using Sage, anyways... Moreover, when I read the script (e.g. reading the book for learning or fun), I am "using" the script independently of Sage. > * The part of GIMP that is licensed under the GPL is its source code. > I am not sure, but I think it is C++. Derived works of GIMP must > therefore also be C++ programs or a program in another language that > is able of directly linking to and calling C++. Auch... then, if I take GIMP source code, and carefully translate it 100% into, say... lisp, then the resulting work is not a C++ program, and therefore not a derived work. BTW this is a braindead implementation of lisp which cannot directly link to and call C++ (in case it matters). By the way, a technical point which may not be that relevant but which causes some confusion: Say I take source code from your GPLed program, and use it in my own code (no doubt a derived work). Then I distribute my program without a license, or with a GPL-incompatible license. Does it follow that my program is GPL? I think NOT. It only follows that I may be infringing your copyright, because you never gave me permission to do that. You would need to sue me, and then I could "get away" by just removing your code from my program and paying you damages for all the distribution that I did so far without your authorization. I wouldn't be forced to GPL my code in any case. Gonzalo --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Clarification of Sage and GPL
Gee... is "Sage" a trademark? Besides, I don't think a trademark is that strong... E.g. "firefox" is a trademark of mozilla. Debian doesn't want to be bound by the terms of use of said trademark, so the rename the program to "iceweasel". All visible occurrences of the name "firefox" are replaced by "iceweasel". However, I can still launch iceweasel by running "firefox" from the command line. Is this a trademark violation? Now, if "Sage" where a trademark, then "sage-ultralight" would clearly be a trademark violation. But say the program is called "fuchsia" instead. Fuchsia is a clone of Sage, and it is meant to execute the same scripts as Sage itself. Then it's not clear that it would be a trademark violation for fuchsia to provide a "sage.py" file for compatibility purposes, i.e. just so that "import foo from sage.bar" works the same. IOW, you cannot create a GUI toolkit named "Qt", but you may be able create a GUI toolkit with a different name and provide header files using the same filenames as qt (at least wrt trademark... then there is arguing about whether interfaces are copyrightable or not...) Best, Gonzalo On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Brian Granger wrote: > >>> sage-ultralight must have the same name as sage. Then you get into >>> copyright/trademark related issues (the name "sage" is already taken). >>> Just the same I could create a GUI toolkit named "Qt" that was also >>> released under the SACL license, but you can guess what would happen. >> >> Incorrect. Python doesn't care what you call your program, it only >> cares about the filename. > > Huh? Your example had two files or modules: > > foo.py > > > from sage import Integer > print Integer(2)+Integer(2) > > sage.py > == > > # Your ultralight-sage implementation with... > # Whatever your implementation of Integer was > > Python doesn't care about the name "foo.py." But Python does care > that about the name "sage", otherwise the import of sage in foo.py > won't work. To get "from sage import Integer" to work, you *have to* > name sage.py,well, sage.py. But as I recall there is already a > "sage" python project somewhere ;-). I think the authors of the real > sage project might have a problem with you naming your ultralight sage > module "sage.py." Just like Fernando and myself would have a problem > if another "IPython" named project came along. > >> If somebody wants to go to court about a >> filename... that'll certainly be interesting. > > This is called trademark infringement, and it happens all the time. > Remember Apple v. Apple? > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v._Apple_Computer > > Cheers, > > Brian > > >> > >> > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Clarification of Sage and GPL
> Gee... is "Sage" a trademark? > > Besides, I don't think a trademark is that strong... E.g. "firefox" is > a trademark of mozilla. Debian doesn't want to be bound by the terms > of use of said trademark, so the rename the program to "iceweasel". > All visible occurrences of the name "firefox" are replaced by > "iceweasel". However, I can still launch iceweasel by running > "firefox" from the command line. Is this a trademark violation? > > Now, if "Sage" where a trademark, then "sage-ultralight" would clearly > be a trademark violation. But say the program is called "fuchsia" > instead. Fuchsia is a clone of Sage, and it is meant to execute the > same scripts as Sage itself. Then it's not clear that it would be a > trademark violation for fuchsia to provide a "sage.py" file for > compatibility purposes, i.e. just so that "import foo from sage.bar" > works the same. > > IOW, you cannot create a GUI toolkit named "Qt", but you may be able > create a GUI toolkit with a different name and provide header files > using the same filenames as qt (at least wrt trademark... then there > is arguing about whether interfaces are copyrightable or not...) Trademark violations occur if the use of the mark causes confusion. If someone copied Sage (e.g. a fork) and called it fushsia it would not cause confusion. If starting fushsia was done by typing "sage" or, when fushsia starts it "announces" itself as "sage" then there is clearly a claim of "confusion". Thus, to avoid confusion the fushsia project should change all references to "sage" to read "fushsia", including the launching script. The GPL says nothing about trademarks, as far as I'm aware. It is based on copyright, a whole different area of law. Tim Daly --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Clarification of Sage and GPL
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 3:51 PM, Gonzalo Tornaria wrote: > > Gee... is "Sage" a trademark? Yes, "Sage" is a trademark. It's not mine though. It is explicitly listed here: http://www.sagenorthamerica.com/copyright_trademarks/ Another company changed their name to Sage software and write on their webpage: " * Why change your name at this time? * It was always the company’s intention to use the Sage brand name worldwide; however, the Sage trademark was not available to us in North America until recently. " See http://sagefaq.sagesoftwareinc.com/ William --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Symbolics and Sage 4.0
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Robert Bradshaw wrote: > > On May 7, 2009, at 4:10 AM, Mike Hansen wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> I've been doing a lot of work recent trying to get the new symbolics >> ready for Sage 4.0. With 4.0 due out in 8 days, we're trying to do >> the final push. >> >> There are currently a lot of printing errors since Pynac/GiNaC prints >> expressions differently than Maxima does. Some things still need >> doctests, and there are a few small features left to implement. If >> you have some free time in the next few days and want to help out, >> it'd be greatly appreciated. >> >> If you want to try the code out, there is an spkg and two patches in >> http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/mhansen/symbolics/. These should >> install and apply cleanly to Sage 3.4.2. >> >> I'll try to be around in IRC most of the day tomorrow. Sometime during >> the day or evening, we'll set up a public notebook for people to try >> things out and try to break things. > > I just noticed > > sage: sqrt(x)^2 > x > > sage: sqrt(2)^2 > sqrt(2)^2 > OK, that's definitely a bug. By the way, testing this in Ginac directly is useful, which anybody can do by typing ginsh on sage.math: wst...@sage:~$ ginsh ginsh - GiNaC Interactive Shell (ginac V1.4.1) ... > sqrt(2)^2; 2 I've added this to the wiki. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Symbolics and Sage 4.0
William Stein wrote: > On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Robert Bradshaw > wrote: >> On May 7, 2009, at 4:10 AM, Mike Hansen wrote: >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> I've been doing a lot of work recent trying to get the new symbolics >>> ready for Sage 4.0. With 4.0 due out in 8 days, we're trying to do >>> the final push. >>> >>> There are currently a lot of printing errors since Pynac/GiNaC prints >>> expressions differently than Maxima does. Some things still need >>> doctests, and there are a few small features left to implement. If >>> you have some free time in the next few days and want to help out, >>> it'd be greatly appreciated. >>> >>> If you want to try the code out, there is an spkg and two patches in >>> http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/mhansen/symbolics/. These should >>> install and apply cleanly to Sage 3.4.2. >>> >>> I'll try to be around in IRC most of the day tomorrow. Sometime during >>> the day or evening, we'll set up a public notebook for people to try >>> things out and try to break things. >> I just noticed >> >> sage: sqrt(x)^2 >> x >> >> sage: sqrt(2)^2 >> sqrt(2)^2 >> > > OK, that's definitely a bug. By the way, testing this in Ginac > directly is useful, which anybody can do by typing ginsh on sage.math: > > wst...@sage:~$ ginsh > ginsh - GiNaC Interactive Shell (ginac V1.4.1) > ... >> sqrt(2)^2; > 2 > > I've added this to the wiki. It might be useful, if possible, to make sage -ginsh launch ginsh, or something similar. Jason --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Symbolics and Sage 4.0
On May 7, 5:04 pm, Jason Grout wrote: > William Stein wrote: > > wst...@sage:~$ ginsh > > ginsh - GiNaC Interactive Shell (ginac V1.4.1) > > ... > >> sqrt(2)^2; > > 2 > > > I've added this to the wiki. > > It might be useful, if possible, to make sage -ginsh launch ginsh, or > something similar. Well, ginsh isn't available from inside Sage, i.e. pynac doesn't seem to build it, so I would be -1 on this. And it is longer than typing ginsh anyway. > Jason Cheers, Michael --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Symbolics and Sage 4.0
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 5:10 PM, mabshoff wrote: > > > > On May 7, 5:04 pm, Jason Grout wrote: >> William Stein wrote: > > > >> > wst...@sage:~$ ginsh >> > ginsh - GiNaC Interactive Shell (ginac V1.4.1) >> > ... >> >> sqrt(2)^2; >> > 2 >> >> > I've added this to the wiki. >> >> It might be useful, if possible, to make sage -ginsh launch ginsh, or >> something similar. > > Well, ginsh isn't available from inside Sage, i.e. pynac doesn't seem > to build it, so I would be -1 on this. And it is longer than typing > ginsh anyway. > Michael's right, your suggestion turns out to make no sense, as it is impossible to build ginsh without using the non-forked version of ginac (!= pynac), and having the huge CLN library built, which we don't use in Sage. William --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: JavaScript Graph editor
New version is up: http://www.math.uiuc.edu/~rkirov2/processing/grapheditor.html The short changelog: 1) By popular demand, when you drag a vertex out of the page the edges turn red to indicate you are going to lose it and it is not erased until you release the button. 2) There is an accompanying python script which preps ups the graph data in JS format for easy copy/paste to get the same graph in the editor. 3) The edges of the selected vertex are now blue. This is just a visual clue. Rado On May 5, 2:52 pm, rjf wrote: > On May 5, 10:53 am, Andras Salamon > wrote: > . > > > I thought papers like your > > http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~fateman/papers/graphing7.pdf > > were highly appropriate for the Graph Drawing symposium? > > http://facweb.cs.depaul.edu/gd2009/gd2009.asp > > (Submission deadline is 31 May 2009.) > > > Or is that one of the "upgraded" venues? > > Thanks for the suggestion. > > These people are doing very sophisticated things in laying out graphs, > and have a substantial history of algorithm development, competition > in a set of benchmarks, etc. My contribution would be to say "I wrote > this relatively naive program, using a graphics toolkit, in the > programming language Lisp, so it can be called from a computer algebra > system". > > Since it's not advancing the art of graph display, I would not expect > it to be of interest. > > Something notable about it is that it's under 300 lines of code. > > Probably not a winner for this conference :) > RJF --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Clarification of Sage and GPL
Brian Granger wrote: > Are you arguing that jpeg's produced by GIMP are all GPL'd? No. > I agree that it is definitely possible to release "non-programs", such > as JPEGs, under the GPL. OK, I misunderstood. I thought you were claiming just the opposite. Robert Dodier --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Clarification of Sage and GPL
Gonzalo Tornaria wrote: > Auch... then, if I take GIMP source code, and carefully translate it > 100% into, say... lisp, then the resulting work is not a C++ program, > and therefore not a derived work. Careful. I'm pretty sure a translation (be it from natural language or computer language) is a derived work. IANAL, Robert Dodier --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Clarification of Sage and GPL
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 10:45 PM, Robert Dodier wrote: > Gonzalo Tornaria wrote: >> Auch... then, if I take GIMP source code, and carefully translate it >> 100% into, say... lisp, then the resulting work is not a C++ program, >> and therefore not a derived work. > > Careful. I'm pretty sure a translation (be it from natural > language or computer language) is a derived work. Indeed... but the OP claimed that a jpeg couldn't be a derived work of gimp because it's not a C++ program, which is a non sequitur. > IANAL, me neither... Gonzalo --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Sage Lightweight LiveCD feedback.
Hi everybody, I built a LiveCD with Sage that intends to be minimal in all senses. It has some rough edges yet and much to be improved, that's why I invite you to download it from here: http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/luciolastra/isos/v2/ try it out and give me any feedback (bugs, possible improvements, etc) on it to make it better. Greetings, Lucio Lastra. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Clarification of Sage and GPL
> Indeed... but the OP claimed that a jpeg couldn't be a derived work of > gimp because it's not a C++ program, which is a non sequitur. Do you actually think a JPEG is a derived for of GIMP or do you disagree with how I was arguing? If you merely disagree with my argument, please don't misquote a small portion of it out of context and use fancy latin words to make yourself sound smart. English words work just fine. Most of all, everyone, please go read the damn GPL! Cheers, Brian --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Clarification of Sage and GPL
> > Most of all, everyone, please go read the damn GPL! Out of curiosity, does anyone on the list actually know a lawyer at FSF? I wouldn't be surprised if someone does with all the Boston connections. If so, getting even a small piece of FSF's "official" position, without all the IANAL stuff, on whether (say) a notebook worksheet containing small programs without "import" statements or whatever would be a derived work or not might be actually useful in the long run, not even sage-flame bait. At this point it really seems like the whole thread is about what a "derived" work that "links" is, and these are not necessarily well-defined terms, at least judging by this thread's length :) Just putting it out there, - kcrisman --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Clarification of Sage and GPL
On May 7, 2009, at 8:53 PM, kcrisman wrote: > >> >> Most of all, everyone, please go read the damn GPL! > > Out of curiosity, does anyone on the list actually know a lawyer at > FSF? I wouldn't be surprised if someone does with all the Boston > connections. I think (hope) that the restrictions and freedoms the GPL puts on a derivative work are understood by most people here. What is under debate is what, exactly, constitutes a "derivative work." This is out of the jurisdiction of the GPL or any other license to define--it is part of copyright law. I don't think anyone here honestly thinks that a photo edited by GIMP falls under this criteria, or that porting a program from one language to another doesn't--these are hyperboles made by people on the list to make a point (often with a heavy dose of sarcasm). > If so, getting even a small piece of FSF's "official" position, > without all the IANAL stuff, on whether (say) a notebook worksheet > containing small programs without "import" statements or whatever > would be a derived work or not might be actually useful in the long > run, not even sage-flame bait. At this point it really seems like the > whole thread is about what a "derived" work that "links" is, and these > are not necessarily well-defined terms, at least judging by this > thread's length :) One could ask the FSF, but one shouldn't expect an unbiased opinion (or variance from their FAQ) if one does. (They are lawyers though, unlike most (all?) of the folks that hang out here). - Robert --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Clarification of Sage and GPL
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 8:19 PM, Brian Granger wrote: > >> Indeed... but the OP claimed that a jpeg couldn't be a derived work of >> gimp because it's not a C++ program, which is a non sequitur. > > Do you actually think a JPEG is a derived for of GIMP or do you > disagree with how I was arguing? [...] > Most of all, everyone, please go read the damn GPL! > > Brian Though very interesting to me personally, this thread has got to a point that is really inappropriate for sage-devel, which is a mailing list is for the discussion of Sage development. I respectfully request everybody to post further discussion of this topic at the following mailing list: http://groups.google.com/group/sage-flame where any and all manner of discussion can and should take place. Thank you, William --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: JavaScript Graph editor
Looking real good. I like the red edges prior to deletion when you drag outside the canvas. I've now run this on two machines - one is 32-bit, one 64-bit. Otherwise pretty much the same - recent Firefox on KUbuntu, approx 3GHz chips. The editor is very crisp and robust on the 32-bit machine. On 64-bit it used to be somewhat painful to use and drag-and- trash wouldn't even work, while this version seems a bit faster, but still is much, much slower than the excellent performance on 32-bit. Any thoughts? Is this JSProcessing, or maybe just Javascript? Let me know if there is more specific info I can provide. Rob On May 7, 6:08 pm, Rado wrote: > New version is up: > > http://www.math.uiuc.edu/~rkirov2/processing/grapheditor.html > > The short changelog: > 1) By popular demand, when you drag a vertex out of the page the edges > turn red to indicate you are going to lose it and it is not erased > until you release the button. > 2) There is an accompanying python script which preps ups the graph > data in JS format for easy copy/paste to get the same graph in the > editor. > 3) The edges of the selected vertex are now blue. This is just a > visual clue. > > Rado > > On May 5, 2:52 pm, rjf wrote: > > > On May 5, 10:53 am, Andras Salamon > > wrote: > > . > > > > I thought papers like your > > > http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~fateman/papers/graphing7.pdf > > > were highly appropriate for the Graph Drawing symposium? > > > http://facweb.cs.depaul.edu/gd2009/gd2009.asp > > > (Submission deadline is 31 May 2009.) > > > > Or is that one of the "upgraded" venues? > > > Thanks for the suggestion. > > > These people are doing very sophisticated things in laying out graphs, > > and have a substantial history of algorithm development, competition > > in a set of benchmarks, etc. My contribution would be to say "I wrote > > this relatively naive program, using a graphics toolkit, in the > > programming language Lisp, so it can be called from a computer algebra > > system". > > > Since it's not advancing the art of graph display, I would not expect > > it to be of interest. > > > Something notable about it is that it's under 300 lines of code. > > > Probably not a winner for this conference :) > > RJF --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Sage Lightweight LiveCD feedback.
Hi Lucio, Got a command prompt, entered startx, chose Sage off the fluxbox menu. Got a terminal window and the Sage banner. A few seconds later and the terminal window closed. Now every time I choose Sage off the menu, the terminal just blinks and immediately closes. Running ./sage from a fresh terminal seems to fail in $SAGE_ROOT/local/ bin/sage-sage at line 198 where it seems to be starting ipython. Let me know if there is a log file, or anything else I can send. Rob On May 7, 7:16 pm, Lucio Lastra wrote: > Hi everybody, > > I built a LiveCD with Sage that intends to be minimal in > all senses. > > It has some rough edges yet and much to be improved, > that's why I invite you to download it from here: > > http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/luciolastra/isos/v2/ > > try it out and give me any feedback (bugs, possible improvements, > etc) on it to make it better. > > Greetings, > > Lucio Lastra. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: JavaScript Graph editor
That is weird. Unfortunately I don't have a 64bit OS to test it. Processing JS is just a parser that parses processing (java) code and runs it as JS. I tried to write everything in JS but its major pain in the butt, since js has very weird way of doing classes (they are not even called classes). However, the parsing is done once when the code is loaded, so shouldn't affect the performance. My guess is that 64bit linux Firefox has some js issues. How does it handle intensive JS computations like : http://www.chiptune.com/starfield/starfield.html Btw, I finished the rudimentary version of the live editor. http://www.math.uiuc.edu/~rkirov2/processing/grapheditor_live.html Click the "live" checkbox to see the vertices rearrange is real time. My implementation is quite simplistic (no real physics here). I am also trying to make vertices repel each other (not done yet). I would like to see a good reference on how to handle graph viz in real-time if anyone has something. Not sure if this project can ever be made stable/mainstream enough be bundled with SAGE (it won't work with IE for example). However even at the moment the website, itself has the capability (with a bit of copy/ pasting) of "linking" up with SAGE, to make the construction/ visualization of a simple graphs easier. Hopefully, it can help some graph theorists. Rado On May 8, 12:39 am, Rob Beezer wrote: > Looking real good. I like the red edges prior to deletion when you > drag outside the canvas. > > I've now run this on two machines - one is 32-bit, one 64-bit. > Otherwise pretty much the same - recent Firefox on KUbuntu, approx > 3GHz chips. The editor is very crisp and robust on the 32-bit > machine. On 64-bit it used to be somewhat painful to use and drag-and- > trash wouldn't even work, while this version seems a bit faster, but > still is much, much slower than the excellent performance on 32-bit. > > Any thoughts? Is this JSProcessing, or maybe just Javascript? Let me > know if there is more specific info I can provide. > > Rob > > On May 7, 6:08 pm, Rado wrote: > > > New version is up: > > >http://www.math.uiuc.edu/~rkirov2/processing/grapheditor.html > > > The short changelog: > > 1) By popular demand, when you drag a vertex out of the page the edges > > turn red to indicate you are going to lose it and it is not erased > > until you release the button. > > 2) There is an accompanying python script which preps ups the graph > > data in JS format for easy copy/paste to get the same graph in the > > editor. > > 3) The edges of the selected vertex are now blue. This is just a > > visual clue. > > > Rado > > > On May 5, 2:52 pm, rjf wrote: > > > > On May 5, 10:53 am, Andras Salamon > > > wrote: > > > . > > > > > I thought papers like your > > > > http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~fateman/papers/graphing7.pdf > > > > were highly appropriate for the Graph Drawing symposium? > > > > http://facweb.cs.depaul.edu/gd2009/gd2009.asp > > > > (Submission deadline is 31 May 2009.) > > > > > Or is that one of the "upgraded" venues? > > > > Thanks for the suggestion. > > > > These people are doing very sophisticated things in laying out graphs, > > > and have a substantial history of algorithm development, competition > > > in a set of benchmarks, etc. My contribution would be to say "I wrote > > > this relatively naive program, using a graphics toolkit, in the > > > programming language Lisp, so it can be called from a computer algebra > > > system". > > > > Since it's not advancing the art of graph display, I would not expect > > > it to be of interest. > > > > Something notable about it is that it's under 300 lines of code. > > > > Probably not a winner for this conference :) > > > RJF > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: JavaScript Graph editor
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 11:13 PM, Rado wrote: > > That is weird. Unfortunately I don't have a 64bit OS to test it. > Processing JS is just a parser that parses processing (java) code and > runs it as JS. I tried to write everything in JS but its major pain in > the butt, since js has very weird way of doing classes (they are not > even called classes). However, the parsing is done once when the code > is loaded, so shouldn't affect the performance. My guess is that 64bit > linux Firefox has some js issues. How does it handle intensive JS > computations like : > > http://www.chiptune.com/starfield/starfield.html > > Btw, I finished the rudimentary version of the live editor. > > http://www.math.uiuc.edu/~rkirov2/processing/grapheditor_live.html > > Click the "live" checkbox to see the vertices rearrange is real time. > My implementation is quite simplistic (no real physics here). I am > also trying to make vertices repel each other (not done yet). I would > like to see a good reference on how to handle graph viz in real-time > if anyone has something. > > Not sure if this project can ever be made stable/mainstream enough be > bundled with SAGE (it won't work with IE for example). Yes, it can. Many thanks for all the hard work you have already done. William > However even at > the moment the website, itself has the capability (with a bit of copy/ > pasting) of "linking" up with SAGE, to make the construction/ > visualization of a simple graphs easier. Hopefully, it can help some > graph theorists. > > Rado > > > On May 8, 12:39 am, Rob Beezer wrote: >> Looking real good. I like the red edges prior to deletion when you >> drag outside the canvas. >> >> I've now run this on two machines - one is 32-bit, one 64-bit. >> Otherwise pretty much the same - recent Firefox on KUbuntu, approx >> 3GHz chips. The editor is very crisp and robust on the 32-bit >> machine. On 64-bit it used to be somewhat painful to use and drag-and- >> trash wouldn't even work, while this version seems a bit faster, but >> still is much, much slower than the excellent performance on 32-bit. >> >> Any thoughts? Is this JSProcessing, or maybe just Javascript? Let me >> know if there is more specific info I can provide. >> >> Rob >> >> On May 7, 6:08 pm, Rado wrote: >> >> > New version is up: >> >> >http://www.math.uiuc.edu/~rkirov2/processing/grapheditor.html >> >> > The short changelog: >> > 1) By popular demand, when you drag a vertex out of the page the edges >> > turn red to indicate you are going to lose it and it is not erased >> > until you release the button. >> > 2) There is an accompanying python script which preps ups the graph >> > data in JS format for easy copy/paste to get the same graph in the >> > editor. >> > 3) The edges of the selected vertex are now blue. This is just a >> > visual clue. >> >> > Rado >> >> > On May 5, 2:52 pm, rjf wrote: >> >> > > On May 5, 10:53 am, Andras Salamon >> > > wrote: >> > > . >> >> > > > I thought papers like your >> > > > http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~fateman/papers/graphing7.pdf >> > > > were highly appropriate for the Graph Drawing symposium? >> > > > http://facweb.cs.depaul.edu/gd2009/gd2009.asp >> > > > (Submission deadline is 31 May 2009.) >> >> > > > Or is that one of the "upgraded" venues? >> >> > > Thanks for the suggestion. >> >> > > These people are doing very sophisticated things in laying out graphs, >> > > and have a substantial history of algorithm development, competition >> > > in a set of benchmarks, etc. My contribution would be to say "I wrote >> > > this relatively naive program, using a graphics toolkit, in the >> > > programming language Lisp, so it can be called from a computer algebra >> > > system". >> >> > > Since it's not advancing the art of graph display, I would not expect >> > > it to be of interest. >> >> > > Something notable about it is that it's under 300 lines of code. >> >> > > Probably not a winner for this conference :) >> > > RJF >> >> > > > -- William Stein Associate Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Sage Lightweight LiveCD feedback.
Hi Rob, does this problem happens systematically (each time you run sagelwlcd after typing "sudo startx") or just happened to you once? I tried in several machines and didn't have any troubles at all. I'm downloading sagelwlcd to check if there's no data corruption and research about what your problem might be. Greetings, Lucio. On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 5:53 AM, Rob Beezer wrote: > > Hi Lucio, > > Got a command prompt, entered startx, chose Sage off the fluxbox > menu. Got a terminal window and the Sage banner. > > A few seconds later and the terminal window closed. Now every time I > choose Sage off the menu, the terminal just blinks and immediately > closes. > > Running ./sage from a fresh terminal seems to fail in $SAGE_ROOT/local/ > bin/sage-sage at line 198 where it seems to be starting ipython. > > Let me know if there is a log file, or anything else I can send. > > Rob > > On May 7, 7:16 pm, Lucio Lastra wrote: > > Hi everybody, > > > > I built a LiveCD with Sage that intends to be minimal in > > all senses. > > > > It has some rough edges yet and much to be improved, > > that's why I invite you to download it from here: > > > > http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/luciolastra/isos/v2/ > > > > try it out and give me any feedback (bugs, possible improvements, > > etc) on it to make it better. > > > > Greetings, > > > > Lucio Lastra. > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: JavaScript Graph editor
On May 7, 11:13 pm, Rado wrote: > How does it handle intensive JS computations like : > > http://www.chiptune.com/starfield/starfield.html OK, Starfield is pretty fun. ;-) And works great on another 64-bit laptop I just tried. But is pathetic on my 64-bit desktop machine - I couldn't even tell what the point was. So it is me and not the graph editor. Thanks for the link to the testing site. > Btw, I finished the rudimentary version of the live editor. > > http://www.math.uiuc.edu/~rkirov2/processing/grapheditor_live.html That's great! > Not sure if this project can ever be made stable/mainstream enough be > bundled with SAGE (it won't work with IE for example). However even at > the moment the website, itself has the capability (with a bit of copy/ > pasting) of "linking" up with SAGE, to make the construction/ > visualization of a simple graphs easier. Hopefully, it can help some > graph theorists. Well, I hope it can be integrated into Sage, and I think it can be. When I get the chance, I'll look into launching it from the Sage command line, which may be the limit of what I can do. But once symbolics, 4.0 and Sage Days 15 settle down, maybe some of the developers who understand Javascript-notebook integration will be able to plug it in. And yes, even as is, it will be a big help to graph theorists. I'm looking forward to building a graph with your tool and a mouse, and then getting Fidel's LaTeX out the other end. To say nothing of doing some actual computations along the way. Thanks for the great work on this. Rob --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
