Re: [RE-wrenches] New Outback FXR Series as GTGBB on existing Off Grid Home

[Wayne Irwin via RE-wrenches]

It is my understanding that the FXR will not "automatically" switch from Grid 
Input to Gen.
To my knowledge this is a manual option only.
I do not recall any way to make this happen automatically. That would have been 
great.

You can however still call for the generator at a low V setting and have the 
generator power an external charger to boost the batteries.
I think the brand we used to use was IOTA however, I have also seen golf cart 
chargers used.


Wayne Irwin
President
License #CVC56695
State Licensed Solar Contractor
Pure Energy Solar International Inc.
wa...@pureenergysolar.com
PureEnergySolar.com
SolarChargingStation.com
352 377-6527 Office
352 336-3299 Fax


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From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of Jay 
via RE-wrenches 
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2024 5:57 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Jay 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] New Outback FXR Series as GTGBB on existing Off Grid 
Home

Hi Jeremy

There are two issues I think.

1 is that the inverter won’t connect.
And I don’t have an answer why the inverter won’t in sell mode but will in gen 
mode. Maybe the generator is slightly out of the more narrow window for grid. I 
presume you’ve checked hz and volts and they are in spec for grid?  I know 
sometimes the frequency control can be slightly variable without a load. I’ve 
had success in the past getting inverters to connect to a generator with 
putting some dumb loads on it. Like incandescent lights or small heater.

2. Maybe it’s a good thing it won’t because if it did connect wouldn’t it be 
possible for the inverter to try to sell to the generator?  If you didn’t have 
to change grid to Gen?

Jay

On Oct 23, 2024, at 8:47 PM, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Wrenches,
We have a client that has brought utility power in and we now have the system 
hooked up to the utility.
In setting the system up, I've experienced that the inverter will sell and 
function fine with all the settings set up as Grid Tied mode, but it does not 
play nice when the grid is gone , and the Generator is brought in as the AC 
source.
We have installed an external transfer switch to switch the inverters' AC 
input, from either the utility or the existing backup generator ( if the grid 
fails), automatically.

The manual states that the inverter's two input selections can be programmed 
for seperate input modes, via the Input Type menu. Ive not been able to get 
this accomplished.

When simulating a grid outage, thus changing the AC input to the inverter being 
from the Generator, the inverter will not synch to the AC power to charge the 
batteries.
The only way that I can get the inverter to synch, is to switch the input mode 
to GEN from GRID.
This is not ideal since the client would need to be present to make the button 
push, even though the generator will be started automatically if the grid were 
to go down (hopefully) , just as it did before.

With no way to contact Outback , can someone advise how to properly program the 
inverter/ MATE3S for this project?
Equipment onsite:
Single VFXR3648 inverter
Two FM60 CCs
Hub4
MATE3S
ATS with Dual Relays 50A
L.A. Battery bank

Here's how we would like it to work:
Utility power ON:
Sell excess power once the batteries have gone through the Absorb cycle. 
Batteries remain full in case of a utility failure.
Utility Outage:
ATS now feeds Inv AC input via Generator if needed.
Inverter runs the home as it did , off grid.
If the battery voltage drops and the AGS is engaged, the inverter will use that 
input to charge the batteries as usual.  If the grid comes back on and the gen 
is running, the generator can still run, with no connection to the inverter.  
With the grid now charging the battery bank, and the AGS will enventually shut 
off the Gen. Based on voltage.
Contact me off list if necessary


Jeremy Rodriguez
All Solar Inc.
Penrose, CO
719-276-4954



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Module snail trails

[Thomas Hall via RE-wrenches]


Hello Jon.
Another thought……Was the site using  the SMA combiner boxes with the 3 SMA 
Tripower 15000TL-US -10?
We have had ground faults occur there internally. If it has a green test button 
inside the combiner box unit (polarity tester) …. replace the combiner with a 
different manufactures equipment.
I believe the model is called SMA 1000-US-11 String Combiner w/ Disconnect.

Thomas Hall
Solar Specialty Group INC C-33998
dba Specialty Group Electric
808-854-9539
thomash...@solarspecialtygroup.com
www.solarspecialtygroup.com
Certified Thermographer
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional ® 031310-92




From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of Jon 
Dixon via RE-wrenches 
Date: Wednesday, October 23, 2024 at 12:04 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
Cc: Jon Dixon 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Module snail trails
Thanks Bryan,

I do not know the PV connector types for the modules or extension cables
we have not started working on it. I need to put a plan together for the
customer first.
Good to know about the Amphenol H4 issues.

Thank You

Jonathan Dixon
Dixon Power Systems
3250 N 20th St  Ste 1
Lincoln, NE 68521
402-467-3240
j...@dixonpowersystems.com

> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2024 16:44:51 +
> From: Bryan Norkunas 
> To: "re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
>, "j...@dixonpowersystems.com"
>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Module snail trails
> Message-ID:
>
> 
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Jon,
>
> Do you recall which PV connectors were on the modules and what they used for 
> extension cables?
>
> Around that time, Amphenol H4 connectors had issues due to the plastic 
> housings failing and allowing water into the connections.
>
>
>
> Bryan Norkunas
>
> PV-Cables Inc.
>
> 989 Milton Ave Ste 1D
>
> Ferndale CA 95536
>
> (707) 923-3000 office
>
> www.pv-cables.com
>
>   [cid:aa320544-f89d-44fc-a3e9-bb468c2d9953]
>
>
>
> [cid:867e1cba-ab13-4a98-9ecf-200189c32b6d] Please print only if necessary.
>
>
>
> NOTE: This email message and any attachments are for the sole use of the 
> intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged 
> information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is 
> prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender 
> by replying to this email, and destroy all copies of the original message.
>
>
>
> 
> From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of 
> Jon Dixon via RE-wrenches 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2024 9:07 AM
> To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
> Cc: Jon Dixon 
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Module snail trails
>
> Hello All,
>
> I have a local utility with a 50Kw array installed in 2015 consisting of 200 
> ReneSola 250w modules and 3 SMA Tripower 15000TL-US -10. They are having Arc 
> fault code on two of the inverters. This has been going on for a few years 
> now. It happens a couple times a year generally after a large rain. They just 
> reset the code and it comes back to life.
>
> They gave me a walk through and we noticed that a number of modules have 
> snail trails. I have attached a closeup picture I took and IR views of 
> affected module and non affected. It was a 90 deg day when the utility took 
> the IR pictures.
>
> Causes for snail trails that I found:
>
>*   The difference in chemical properties of EVA foils and the silver 
> contacts
>*   The degradation extent of the EVA material
>*   Water vapor permeability of the solar panel?s backsheet material
>
> I did find that if you have snail trails you will have micro fractures. I did 
> see some info that micro fractures could cause arc faults.
>
> Finally my question is can snail trails cause arc faults also?
>
>
> Thanks Jon
>
> --
> Jonathan Dixon
> Dixon Power Systems
> 3250 N 20th St  Ste 1
> Lincoln, NE 68521
> 402-467-3240
> j...@dixonpowersystems.com
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> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2024 17:

Re: [RE-wrenches] New Outback FXR Series as GTGBB on existing Off Grid Home

[Nick Lucchese via RE-wrenches]

How large is the PV generation side relative to the typical daytime
consumption habits? Obviously selling to the grid is the preferred approach
but don't discount the effectiveness of utilizing HBX mode either. I've had
great success optimizing HBX mode on many of my sites in conjunction with
Opticsre. Most are Blue Ion but a couple with sealed FLA set to almost no
discharge working extremely well too.

Good luck, Nick

On Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 5:21 AM Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Generac Eco Gen
>
>
> Jeremy Rodriguez
> Solar Installation / Design
> All Solar, Inc.
> 1453 M St.
> Penrose Colorado 81240
>
> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.
>
> On Oct 23, 2024, at 9:06 PM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> 
> What gen set are you using
> Fun times
>
> On Wed, Oct 23, 2024, 7:47 PM Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Wrenches,
>> We have a client that has brought utility power in and we now have the
>> system hooked up to the utility.
>> In setting the system up, I've experienced that the inverter will sell
>> and function fine with all the settings set up as* Grid Tied* mode, but
>> it does not play nice when the grid is gone , and the Generator is brought
>> in as the AC source.
>> We have installed an external transfer switch to switch the inverters' AC
>> input, from either the utility or the existing backup generator ( if the
>> grid fails), automatically.
>>
>> The manual states that the inverter's two input selections can be
>> programmed for seperate input modes, via the* Input* *Type* menu. Ive
>> not been able to get this accomplished.
>>
>> When simulating a grid outage, thus changing the AC input to the inverter
>> being from the Generator, the inverter will not synch to the AC power to
>> charge the batteries.
>> The only way that I can get the inverter to synch, is to switch the input
>> mode to *GEN* from *GRID.*
>> This is not ideal since the client would need to be present to make the
>> button push, even though the generator will be started automatically if the
>> grid were to go down (hopefully) , just as it did before.
>>
>> With no way to contact Outback , can someone advise how to properly
>> program the inverter/ MATE3S for this project?
>> Equipment onsite:
>> Single VFXR3648 inverter
>> Two FM60 CCs
>> Hub4
>> MATE3S
>> ATS with Dual Relays 50A
>> L.A. Battery bank
>>
>> Here's how we would like it to work:
>> Utility power ON:
>> Sell excess power once the batteries have gone through the Absorb cycle.
>> Batteries remain full in case of a utility failure.
>> Utility Outage:
>> ATS now feeds Inv AC input via Generator if needed.
>> Inverter runs the home as it did , off grid.
>> If the battery voltage drops and the AGS is engaged, the inverter will
>> use that input to charge the batteries as usual.  If the grid comes back on
>> and the gen is running, the generator can still run, with no connection to
>> the inverter.  With the grid now charging the battery bank, and the AGS
>> will enventually shut off the Gen. Based on voltage.
>> Contact me off list if necessary
>>
>>
>> Jeremy Rodriguez
>> All Solar Inc.
>> Penrose, CO
>> 719-276-4954
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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[RE-wrenches] LED light shutdown, Sol-Ark 5

[Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches]

Hello Wrenches,

I visited a site with a Sol-Ark 5k, 2P yesterday.  They had complained of
power shutdowns.  There were a lot of F34 AC Overload faults.

I tracked it down to a single circuit.  This circuit had a bank of about 12
LEDs, all on a single switch.  The meter I brought, couldn't capture a
significant inrush.  The circuit had about 1A @120 Vac when running.

It surprised me that these LEDs would cause this error, and perhaps there
was something wrong with the LED driver (integrated in each bulb).  I did a
bit of research, and it looks like some LED drives can have extremely high
inrush currents.  It appears that these 12 drivers in parallel was enough
to trip off the Sol-Ark.

Curious if anyone else has ran into this.  I did some research and it looks
like there is a product called an inrush current limiter that we may be
able to try.  I pulled 4 of the bulbs and ran the whole house and switched
it on and off and it worked fine about 10 x's.

Is it possible that the Sol-Ark is overly protective of itself?  The time
scale on this inrush is typically 1-2 ms.

Thanks for your input!
-- 



Mac Lewis

*"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] New Outback FXR Series as GTGBB on existing Off Grid Home

[Ray Walters via RE-wrenches]

I dealt with this on my "last" GTBB system.  I say last, because I only 
do backup systems now in places like Puerto Rico that actually need 
backup.  The FXRs will NOT connect to even an inverter generator (Yamaha 
EF3000), unless they are programmed to GEN.  Our solution was to save 
two different system profiles on the Mate, and the customer, after 
actuating the transfer switch was to switch to the other profile on the 
Mate.  Power reliability before GTBB:  99.9%,  Power Reliability after 
GTBB was installed: 80%.


The FXRs had firmware problems that caused one inverter (and half the 
backup loads) to shut off when trying to sell back. Outback Tech support 
blamed me for the problems, and only after several months of shut downs, 
did they acknowledge that their firmware was actually the issue.  
Customer spent $30k+ for less reliability.


Magnum going away?  Probably a good thing too, since I had my first out 
of the box failure this Spring, after an almost perfect record over the 
past 15 years.  Customer was on generator power for over 2 months 
waiting for the replacement.  My whole career has been marked with great 
companies being sold, only to see them later drown in a cesspool of 
mediocre products and poor tech support.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar

On 10/24/2024 5:55 PM, Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches wrote:
As I remember the FXR inverters will rarely connect to any generators 
beside very well controlled or inverter type generators. I agree that 
I don't think there is any automatic transfer from grid tie to 
generator input.


Brad Bassett

On Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 3:42 PM Wayne Irwin via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


It is my understanding that the FXR will not "automatically"
switch from Grid Input to Gen.
To my knowledge this is a manual option only.
I do not recall any way to make this happen automatically. That
would have been great.

You can however still call for the generator at a low V setting
and have the generator power an external charger to boost the
batteries.
I think the brand we used to use was IOTA however, I have also
seen golf cart chargers used.


Wayne Irwin
President
License #CVC56695
State Licensed Solar Contractor
Pure Energy Solar International Inc.
wa...@pureenergysolar.com
PureEnergySolar.com 
SolarChargingStation.com 
352 377-6527 Office
352 336-3299 Fax


The Sun Is Always Shining!

The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If
you are not the intended recipient and have received this message
in error, any use or distribution is prohibited. Please notify me
immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message from your
computer system. Thank you.


*From:* RE-wrenches  on
behalf of Jay via RE-wrenches 
*Sent:* Thursday, October 24, 2024 5:57 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches 
*Cc:* Jay 
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] New Outback FXR Series as GTGBB on
existing Off Grid Home
Hi Jeremy

There are two issues I think.

1 is that the inverter won’t connect.
And I don’t have an answer why the inverter won’t in sell mode but
will in gen mode. Maybe the generator is slightly out of the more
narrow window for grid. I presume you’ve checked hz and volts and
they are in spec for grid?  I know sometimes the frequency control
can be slightly variable without a load. I’ve had success in the
past getting inverters to connect to a generator with putting some
dumb loads on it. Like incandescent lights or small heater.

2. Maybe it’s a good thing it won’t because if it did connect
wouldn’t it be possible for the inverter to try to sell to the
generator?  If you didn’t have to change grid to Gen?

Jay


On Oct 23, 2024, at 8:47 PM, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches
 wrote:


Wrenches,
We have a client that has brought utility power in and we now
have the system hooked up to the utility.
In setting the system up, I've experienced that the inverter will
sell and function fine with all the settings set up as* Grid
Tied* mode, but it does not play nice when the grid is gone , and
the Generator is brought in as the AC source.
We have installed an external transfer switch to switch the
inverters' AC input, from either the utility or the existing
backup generator ( if the grid fails), automatically.

The manual states that the inverter's two input selections can be
programmed for seperate input modes, via the* Input* *Type* menu.
Ive not been able to get this accomplished.

When simulating a grid outage, thus changing the AC input to the
inverter being from the Generator, the inverter will not synch to
the AC power to charge the batteries.
The only way that I can get the inverter to synch, i

[RE-wrenches] Trojan warranty contact

[Chris Daum via RE-wrenches]

Hi folks:   Does anyone have a contact number or person for warranty issues 
regarding Trojan batteries?  We have an elderly customer who purchased some 
this summer and we are getting the runaround, to put it mildly.  Thanks in 
advance!
 
Sincerely,
 
Chris Daum
Oasis Montana Inc.
406-777-4309 or 4321
406-777-4309 fax
www.oasismontana.com   
 
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[RE-wrenches] Sunpower Sunvault Schneider XW F50 error code?

[Dan Fink via RE-wrenches]

Howdy esteemed Wrenches - Do any of my former colleagues from Sunpower (or
Wrenches who were dealers) remember what the F50 error code on the Sunvault
Schneider XW inverter was?

I remember I only saw it a couple times in my 2 years there, and that it's
not in the Schneider manual, it's a custom Sunpower error code (because
Sunvault Schneiders had custom firmware, like using AC2 IN as grid sense).
Of course they locked all my file access during my layoff zoom call last
year, no access to my extensive notes on error codes since then. I simply
don't remember.

The question comes from a long-time colleague at a well-respected company
that was a Sunpower dealer, and I'd like to help them out if I can.

TIA,

Dan Fink
Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC
IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation
NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector
NABCEP PV Associate
d anbo...@gmail.com
970-672-4342
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[RE-wrenches] mounting to a foam roof

[jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi All,

I have a job that the customer just told me they are going to get their roof 
foamed which fortunately I found out before I was installing the mounts/panels. 

It’s currently a metal roof, low pitch 5-10 degrees.  
Metal over battens over plywood.  

They want more insulation, it’s not clear how much but 4-8” probably and then 
probably some kind of covering on top of that, not sure what type yet.  

How are people mounting to this?  It’s only going to be 4 panels in landscape 
so as to keep it as low a profile as possible.  

And no mounting on the ground isn’t an option.  

thanks in advance,

jay


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Re: [RE-wrenches] mounting to a foam roof

[david quattro via RE-wrenches]

ProSolar posts bolted directly to the wood decking and into rafters. they
make several different post-heights. Roofers can easily waterproof
cylindrical penetrations.  the owners need to decide how many inches of
foam thickness



On Fri, Oct 25, 2024 at 3:18 PM jay via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I have a job that the customer just told me they are going to get their
> roof foamed which fortunately I found out before I was installing the
> mounts/panels.
>
> It’s currently a metal roof, low pitch 5-10 degrees.
> Metal over battens over plywood.
>
> They want more insulation, it’s not clear how much but 4-8” probably and
> then probably some kind of covering on top of that, not sure what type
> yet.
>
> How are people mounting to this?  It’s only going to be 4 panels in
> landscape so as to keep it as low a profile as possible.
>
> And no mounting on the ground isn’t an option.
>
> thanks in advance,
>
> jay
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] CTs to trigger a high current disconnect

[James Jarvis via RE-wrenches]

CR Magnetics has current switches.

thank you,

-James Jefferson Jarvis
APRS World, LLC
+1-507-454-2727

(apologies for the brevity and spelling...from my phone)

On Fri, Oct 25, 2024, 7:19 PM david quattro via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi Wrenches,
>Such an honor to address you gurus with this question.  I need to
> monitor current on wires (split phase 240v) and if the current reaches a
> predetermined limit, let's say 100A, or 200A - I need a programmable
> meter/device that can trigger a 12v relay when current reaches the
> threshold. Thank you
> --
>
> David Quattro
> CA License # 954020. C-10, C-46
> ph (415) 312-2661
> www.quattrosolar.com
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] mounting to a foam roof

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches,
Unirac Das aluminum 2 piece standoff we used for just such occasions
Fun times


On Fri, Oct 25, 2024, 3:47 PM david quattro via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> ProSolar posts bolted directly to the wood decking and into rafters. they
> make several different post-heights. Roofers can easily waterproof
> cylindrical penetrations.  the owners need to decide how many inches of
> foam thickness
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 25, 2024 at 3:18 PM jay via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I have a job that the customer just told me they are going to get their
>> roof foamed which fortunately I found out before I was installing the
>> mounts/panels.
>>
>> It’s currently a metal roof, low pitch 5-10 degrees.
>> Metal over battens over plywood.
>>
>> They want more insulation, it’s not clear how much but 4-8” probably and
>> then probably some kind of covering on top of that, not sure what type
>> yet.
>>
>> How are people mounting to this?  It’s only going to be 4 panels in
>> landscape so as to keep it as low a profile as possible.
>>
>> And no mounting on the ground isn’t an option.
>>
>> thanks in advance,
>>
>> jay
>>
>>
>> ___
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[RE-wrenches] CTs to trigger a high current disconnect

[david quattro via RE-wrenches]

Hi Wrenches,
   Such an honor to address you gurus with this question.  I need to
monitor current on wires (split phase 240v) and if the current reaches a
predetermined limit, let's say 100A, or 200A - I need a programmable
meter/device that can trigger a 12v relay when current reaches the
threshold. Thank you
-- 

David Quattro
CA License # 954020. C-10, C-46
ph (415) 312-2661
www.quattrosolar.com
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