[RE-wrenches] Red Lion Pumps

[Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches]

I am looking at a Red Lion, 1/2 HP soft start pump for an off grid 
system. Does anyone have experience with Red Lion pumps?


https://www.waterpumpsdirect.com/Red-Lion-RL12G05-3W2V-Water-Pump/p7506.html

This pump will be used in a cistern.

What is the best soft start submersible to run off of an inverter?

Thank you,

Drake

_Drake Chamberlin_

_Athens Electric LLC_

_Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810_

_NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional_

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Red Lion Pumps

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi Drake

What makes you say think it’s a soft start?  
3 wire isn’t a soft start. It does have a reduced start load but not soft 
start. 

I’d go with a grundfos sq. 

Jay

> On Aug 27, 2024, at 9:08 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I am looking at a Red Lion, 1/2 HP soft start pump for an off grid system. 
> Does anyone have experience with Red Lion pumps?
>  
> https://www.waterpumpsdirect.com/Red-Lion-RL12G05-3W2V-Water-Pump/p7506.html
>  
> This pump will be used in a cistern.
>  
> What is the best soft start submersible to run off of an inverter?
>  
>  
> Thank you,
>  
> Drake
>  
> Drake Chamberlin
> 
> Athens Electric LLC
> 
> Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810
> 
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> 
> 
> 
> --
>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] OB Radian / FM60 grid tie mystery

[Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches,

            We have a customer with older (circa 2008) SMA SB5000US 
that seems to have failed.  Zonna is not an option, none in stock. You 
Love Solar wants $4K+ (with tax,and shipping) but we have a new SMA 
SB6.0-1SP-US-40 in a dusty box in stock.




Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, owner
4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
Taylorsville, CA  95983
530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
CA. C10 Lic # 874049
Solar Powered since 1982
Home of the Sunny Side Up


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[RE-wrenches] Fortress Shutdown?

[Ray Walters via RE-wrenches]

Greetings All;

I have Fortress Battery installation with a pair of E Vault batteries 
set up in a Master/ Slave arrangement.  Its been working fine for over a 
year, but the customer just had a complete shutdown of the batteries 
which left multiple freezers, and refrigerator with rotting food.   When 
he rebooted the batteries by turning on/off the main breaker on each, 
they both come up and showed 100% SOC on the Master, and 98% on the 
other.    There were no fault codes.   I just recently installed a 
larger PV array, and so the system has been reaching full charge every 
morning.


I have multiple calls in to Fortress, but not hearing anything back from 
them at all.  We did have a lightning surge event a few months ago, that 
damaged a Midnite SPD (first ever for me), and took out the control 
board on the generator.  One VFX inverter has an LED out, but we only 
use two inverters of the Quad stack, so I just switched to another 
inverter.  All other equipment appeared fine: Midnite controllers, rest 
of the Outback VFX quad stack, and never any issues seen with the 
Fortress batteries.


The other odd thing, is since he rebooted the batteries, the system is 
working fine, and recharging to 100%  by 9:30 am as before.    Is it 
possible the Fortress BMS were damaged and are now having an 
intermittent shutdown issue?  I did ask him to temporarily disconnect 
the comms between batteries, in case it is a bad BMS on one, it will 
isolate it from the other.


This is a tough one to figure out, since it hasn't happened again, and 
there are no fault codes.  The Mate 3 shows a low frequency AC code, but 
that's usually just from the generator shutting down.    Any help, 
ideas, experiences, would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,

Ray Walters
Remote Solar

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Shutdown?

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

When I have had someone lose an SPD (I assume it was on DC buss) there 
is often latent damage (shows up later) to many of the devices.  In a Hi 
Rel mode, it is recommended to replace it all. Most offgrid is not that 
critical but try telling that to someone with rotten food.


The freezers and reefers are often full of spoils that smells never go 
away. YUK !


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-08-27 1:02 pm, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:


Greetings All;

I have Fortress Battery installation with a pair of E Vault batteries 
set up in a Master/ Slave arrangement.  Its been working fine for over 
a year, but the customer just had a complete shutdown of the batteries 
which left multiple freezers, and refrigerator with rotting food.   
When he rebooted the batteries by turning on/off the main breaker on 
each, they both come up and showed 100% SOC on the Master, and 98% on 
the other.There were no fault codes.   I just recently installed a 
larger PV array, and so the system has been reaching full charge every 
morning.


I have multiple calls in to Fortress, but not hearing anything back 
from them at all.  We did have a lightning surge event a few months 
ago, that damaged a Midnite SPD (first ever for me), and took out the 
control board on the generator.  One VFX inverter has an LED out, but 
we only use two inverters of the Quad stack, so I just switched to 
another inverter.  All other equipment appeared fine: Midnite 
controllers, rest of the Outback VFX quad stack, and never any issues 
seen with the Fortress batteries.


The other odd thing, is since he rebooted the batteries, the system is 
working fine, and recharging to 100%  by 9:30 am as before.Is it 
possible the Fortress BMS were damaged and are now having an 
intermittent shutdown issue?  I did ask him to temporarily disconnect 
the comms between batteries, in case it is a bad BMS on one, it will 
isolate it from the other.


This is a tough one to figure out, since it hasn't happened again, and 
there are no fault codes.  The Mate 3 shows a low frequency AC code, 
but that's usually just from the generator shutting down.Any help, 
ideas, experiences, would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,

Ray Walters
Remote Solar

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Links:
--
[1] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
[2] https://offgridsolar1.com/___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Shutdown?

[Ray Walters via RE-wrenches]

The SPD was on one of the PV inputs before it came into the house.  
There were two Classics, each fed with its own PV input and SPD.  It 
actually caused an underground splice to fail (high resistance) which I 
replaced the splice and restored full voltage, and both Classics were 
working fine.  Just seems unlikely ( but not impossible) that the surge 
would make it past the Classic without damage, but then damage the 
Fortress BMS in an otherwise imperceptible manner.   That is our current 
best theory at the moment though.   I added an SPD on the 48 v buss, 
before this latest total shutdown.


Ray Walters

On 8/27/2024 2:35 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches wrote:
When I have had someone lose an SPD (I assume it was on DC buss) there 
is often latent damage (shows up later) to many of the devices.  In a 
Hi Rel mode, it is recommended to replace it all. Most offgrid is not 
that critical but try telling that to someone with rotten food.
The freezers and reefers are often full of spoils that smells never go 
away. YUK !
  
*Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" 
https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
 
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060*



On 2024-08-27 1:02 pm, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:


Greetings All;

I have Fortress Battery installation with a pair of E Vault batteries 
set up in a Master/ Slave arrangement.  Its been working fine for 
over a year, but the customer just had a complete shutdown of the 
batteries which left multiple freezers, and refrigerator with rotting 
food.   When he rebooted the batteries by turning on/off the main 
breaker on each, they both come up and showed 100% SOC on the Master, 
and 98% on the other.    There were no fault codes.   I just recently 
installed a larger PV array, and so the system has been reaching full 
charge every morning.


I have multiple calls in to Fortress, but not hearing anything back 
from them at all.  We did have a lightning surge event a few months 
ago, that damaged a Midnite SPD (first ever for me), and took out the 
control board on the generator.  One VFX inverter has an LED out, but 
we only use two inverters of the Quad stack, so I just switched to 
another inverter.  All other equipment appeared fine: Midnite 
controllers, rest of the Outback VFX quad stack, and never any issues 
seen with the Fortress batteries.


The other odd thing, is since he rebooted the batteries, the system 
is working fine, and recharging to 100%  by 9:30 am as before.    Is 
it possible the Fortress BMS were damaged and are now having an 
intermittent shutdown issue?  I did ask him to temporarily disconnect 
the comms between batteries, in case it is a bad BMS on one, it will 
isolate it from the other.


This is a tough one to figure out, since it hasn't happened again, 
and there are no fault codes.  The Mate 3 shows a low frequency AC 
code, but that's usually just from the generator shutting down.    
Any help, ideas, experiences, would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,

Ray Walters
Remote Solar

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Shutdown?

[jay via RE-wrenches]

I have a buddy in tech support at Fortress.

I asked him and he said that elevated absorb volts above 55.2 could cause this 
situation.  
And then the power cycle would reboot the BMS.

I am presuming its open loop, and the fact you mentioned that there was more PV 
and then the shut down sure might be connected.  
You might check the charge voltages/time to make sure they are correct and I 
can’t remember if the classic has battery sense wire connections. 

jay







> On Aug 27, 2024, at 2:51 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> The SPD was on one of the PV inputs before it came into the house.  There 
> were two Classics, each fed with its own PV input and SPD.  It actually 
> caused an underground splice to fail (high resistance) which I replaced the 
> splice and restored full voltage, and both Classics were working fine.  Just 
> seems unlikely ( but not impossible) that the surge would make it past the 
> Classic without damage, but then damage the Fortress BMS in an otherwise 
> imperceptible manner.   That is our current best theory at the moment though. 
>   I added an SPD on the 48 v buss, before this latest total shutdown.
> 
> Ray Walters
> 
> On 8/27/2024 2:35 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches wrote:
>> When I have had someone lose an SPD (I assume it was on DC buss) there is 
>> often latent damage (shows up later) to many of the devices.  In a Hi Rel 
>> mode, it is recommended to replace it all. Most offgrid is not that critical 
>> but try telling that to someone with rotten food.
>>  
>> The freezers and reefers are often full of spoils that smells never go away. 
>> YUK !
>>  
>> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
>> "we go where powerlines don't"
>>https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
>>   
>> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
>> text 209 813 0060
>> 
>> 
>> On 2024-08-27 1:02 pm, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:
>> 
>>> Greetings All;
>>> 
>>> I have Fortress Battery installation with a pair of E Vault batteries set 
>>> up in a Master/ Slave arrangement.  Its been working fine for over a year, 
>>> but the customer just had a complete shutdown of the batteries which left 
>>> multiple freezers, and refrigerator with rotting food.   When he rebooted 
>>> the batteries by turning on/off the main breaker on each, they both come up 
>>> and showed 100% SOC on the Master, and 98% on the other.There were no 
>>> fault codes.   I just recently installed a larger PV array, and so the 
>>> system has been reaching full charge every morning.
>>> 
>>> I have multiple calls in to Fortress, but not hearing anything back from 
>>> them at all.  We did have a lightning surge event a few months ago, that 
>>> damaged a Midnite SPD (first ever for me), and took out the control board 
>>> on the generator.  One VFX inverter has an LED out, but we only use two 
>>> inverters of the Quad stack, so I just switched to another inverter.  All 
>>> other equipment appeared fine: Midnite controllers, rest of the Outback VFX 
>>> quad stack, and never any issues seen with the Fortress batteries.
>>> 
>>> The other odd thing, is since he rebooted the batteries, the system is 
>>> working fine, and recharging to 100%  by 9:30 am as before.Is it 
>>> possible the Fortress BMS were damaged and are now having an intermittent 
>>> shutdown issue?  I did ask him to temporarily disconnect the comms between 
>>> batteries, in case it is a bad BMS on one, it will isolate it from the 
>>> other.
>>> 
>>> This is a tough one to figure out, since it hasn't happened again, and 
>>> there are no fault codes.  The Mate 3 shows a low frequency AC code, but 
>>> that's usually just from the generator shutting down.Any help, ideas, 
>>> experiences, would be greatly appreciated.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Ray Walters
>>> Remote Solar
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>> 
>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Shutdown?

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

High voltage disconnect would do this, is the site monitored

Fun times

On Tue, Aug 27, 2024, 2:47 PM jay via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I have a buddy in tech support at Fortress.
>
> I asked him and he said that elevated absorb volts above 55.2 could cause
> this situation.
> And then the power cycle would reboot the BMS.
>
> I am presuming its open loop, and the fact you mentioned that there was
> more PV and then the shut down sure might be connected.
> You might check the charge voltages/time to make sure they are correct and
> I can’t remember if the classic has battery sense wire connections.
>
> jay
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 27, 2024, at 2:51 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> The SPD was on one of the PV inputs before it came into the house.  There
> were two Classics, each fed with its own PV input and SPD.  It actually
> caused an underground splice to fail (high resistance) which I replaced the
> splice and restored full voltage, and both Classics were working fine.
> Just seems unlikely ( but not impossible) that the surge would make it past
> the Classic without damage, but then damage the Fortress BMS in an
> otherwise imperceptible manner.   That is our current best theory at the
> moment though.   I added an SPD on the 48 v buss, before this latest total
> shutdown.
>
> Ray Walters
> On 8/27/2024 2:35 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> When I have had someone lose an SPD (I assume it was on DC buss) there is
> often latent damage (shows up later) to many of the devices.  In a Hi Rel
> mode, it is recommended to replace it all. Most offgrid is not that
> critical but try telling that to someone with rotten food.
>
> The freezers and reefers are often full of spoils that smells never go
> away. YUK !
>
>
>
> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
>https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
>   
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
> text 209 813 0060*
>
>
> On 2024-08-27 1:02 pm, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> Greetings All;
>
> I have Fortress Battery installation with a pair of E Vault batteries set
> up in a Master/ Slave arrangement.  Its been working fine for over a year,
> but the customer just had a complete shutdown of the batteries which left
> multiple freezers, and refrigerator with rotting food.   When he rebooted
> the batteries by turning on/off the main breaker on each, they both come up
> and showed 100% SOC on the Master, and 98% on the other.There were no
> fault codes.   I just recently installed a larger PV array, and so the
> system has been reaching full charge every morning.
>
> I have multiple calls in to Fortress, but not hearing anything back from
> them at all.  We did have a lightning surge event a few months ago, that
> damaged a Midnite SPD (first ever for me), and took out the control board
> on the generator.  One VFX inverter has an LED out, but we only use two
> inverters of the Quad stack, so I just switched to another inverter.  All
> other equipment appeared fine: Midnite controllers, rest of the Outback VFX
> quad stack, and never any issues seen with the Fortress batteries.
>
> The other odd thing, is since he rebooted the batteries, the system is
> working fine, and recharging to 100%  by 9:30 am as before.Is it
> possible the Fortress BMS were damaged and are now having an intermittent
> shutdown issue?  I did ask him to temporarily disconnect the comms between
> batteries, in case it is a bad BMS on one, it will isolate it from the
> other.
>
> This is a tough one to figure out, since it hasn't happened again, and
> there are no fault codes.  The Mate 3 shows a low frequency AC code, but
> that's usually just from the generator shutting down.Any help, ideas,
> experiences, would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
>
> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Shutdown?

[Ray Walters via RE-wrenches]

I have both controllers set to the Fortress recommended absorb settings 
of 54.4 vdc for 2 hrs.  Its always possible that there was voltage over 
swing or something.  I did check that the voltage on the controllers was 
within a0.1 vdc of the battery voltage at the Fortresses. I'm now using 
a pair of Midnite Hampton Bay Controllers.  They're rated to 90 amps, 
but I set them down to 85 A output, just to provide some head room.  I 
don't mind the very occasional clipping.  The array is two strings of 
Jinko 425s, 10 per series string, so 4250 w per controller.


I wonder if the voltage that causes trouble for Fortress might have 
changed due to the possible lightning surge?


Ray

On 8/27/2024 3:46 PM, jay wrote:

I have a buddy in tech support at Fortress.

I asked him and he said that elevated absorb volts above 55.2 could 
cause this situation.

And then the power cycle would reboot the BMS.

I am presuming its open loop, and the fact you mentioned that there 
was more PV and then the shut down sure might be connected.
You might check the charge voltages/time to make sure they are correct 
and I can’t remember if the classic has battery sense wire connections.


jay







On Aug 27, 2024, at 2:51 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


The SPD was on one of the PV inputs before it came into the house.  
There were two Classics, each fed with its own PV input and SPD.  It 
actually caused an underground splice to fail (high resistance) which 
I replaced the splice and restored full voltage, and both Classics 
were working fine.  Just seems unlikely ( but not impossible) that 
the surge would make it past the Classic without damage, but then 
damage the Fortress BMS in an otherwise imperceptible manner. That is 
our current best theory at the moment though.   I added an SPD on the 
48 v buss, before this latest total shutdown.


Ray Walters

On 8/27/2024 2:35 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches wrote:
When I have had someone lose an SPD (I assume it was on DC buss) 
there is often latent damage (shows up later) to many of the 
devices.  In a Hi Rel mode, it is recommended to replace it all. 
Most offgrid is not that critical but try telling that to someone 
with rotten food.
The freezers and reefers are often full of spoils that smells never 
go away. YUK !
  
*Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" 
https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
 
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060*



On 2024-08-27 1:02 pm, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:


Greetings All;

I have Fortress Battery installation with a pair of E Vault 
batteries set up in a Master/ Slave arrangement.  Its been working 
fine for over a year, but the customer just had a complete shutdown 
of the batteries which left multiple freezers, and refrigerator 
with rotting food. When he rebooted the batteries by turning on/off 
the main breaker on each, they both come up and showed 100% SOC on 
the Master, and 98% on the other.    There were no fault codes.   I 
just recently installed a larger PV array, and so the system has 
been reaching full charge every morning.


I have multiple calls in to Fortress, but not hearing anything back 
from them at all.  We did have a lightning surge event a few months 
ago, that damaged a Midnite SPD (first ever for me), and took out 
the control board on the generator. One VFX inverter has an LED 
out, but we only use two inverters of the Quad stack, so I just 
switched to another inverter.  All other equipment appeared fine: 
Midnite controllers, rest of the Outback VFX quad stack, and never 
any issues seen with the Fortress batteries.


The other odd thing, is since he rebooted the batteries, the system 
is working fine, and recharging to 100%  by 9:30 am as before.    
Is it possible the Fortress BMS were damaged and are now having an 
intermittent shutdown issue?  I did ask him to temporarily 
disconnect the comms between batteries, in case it is a bad BMS on 
one, it will isolate it from the other.


This is a tough one to figure out, since it hasn't happened again, 
and there are no fault codes.  The Mate 3 shows a low frequency AC 
code, but that's usually just from the generator shutting down. Any 
help, ideas, experiences, would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,

Ray Walters
Remote Solar

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Shutdown?

[Ray Walters via RE-wrenches]

Is it possible that a load shut off, and then the controllers over shot 
the voltage long enough to shut the BMS off?  If so, what's the 
solution? Lower absorb voltages?  I checked voltage calibration between 
the various pieces of equipment.


Ray

On 8/27/2024 4:14 PM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches wrote:


High voltage disconnect would do this, is the site monitored

Fun times


On Tue, Aug 27, 2024, 2:47 PM jay via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


I have a buddy in tech support at Fortress.

I asked him and he said that elevated absorb volts above 55.2
could cause this situation.
And then the power cycle would reboot the BMS.

I am presuming its open loop, and the fact you mentioned that
there was more PV and then the shut down sure might be connected.
You might check the charge voltages/time to make sure they are
correct and I can’t remember if the classic has battery sense wire
connections.

jay








On Aug 27, 2024, at 2:51 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches
 wrote:

The SPD was on one of the PV inputs before it came into the
house.  There were two Classics, each fed with its own PV input
and SPD.  It actually caused an underground splice to fail (high
resistance) which I replaced the splice and restored full
voltage, and both Classics were working fine.  Just seems
unlikely ( but not impossible) that the surge would make it past
the Classic without damage, but then damage the Fortress BMS in
an otherwise imperceptible manner.   That is our current best
theory at the moment though.   I added an SPD on the 48 v buss,
before this latest total shutdown.

Ray Walters

On 8/27/2024 2:35 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches
wrote:

When I have had someone lose an SPD (I assume it was on DC buss)
there is often latent damage (shows up later) to many of the
devices.  In a Hi Rel mode, it is recommended to replace it all.
Most offgrid is not that critical but try telling that to
someone with rotten food.
The freezers and reefers are often full of spoils that smells
never go away. YUK !
  
*Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't"

https://offgridsolar1.com/

e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060*


On 2024-08-27 1:02 pm, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:


Greetings All;

I have Fortress Battery installation with a pair of E Vault
batteries set up in a Master/ Slave arrangement.  Its been
working fine for over a year, but the customer just had a
complete shutdown of the batteries which left multiple
freezers, and refrigerator with rotting food.   When he
rebooted the batteries by turning on/off the main breaker on
each, they both come up and showed 100% SOC on the Master, and
98% on the other.    There were no fault codes.   I just
recently installed a larger PV array, and so the system has
been reaching full charge every morning.

I have multiple calls in to Fortress, but not hearing anything
back from them at all. We did have a lightning surge event a
few months ago, that damaged a Midnite SPD (first ever for me),
and took out the control board on the generator.  One VFX
inverter has an LED out, but we only use two inverters of the
Quad stack, so I just switched to another inverter.  All other
equipment appeared fine: Midnite controllers, rest of the
Outback VFX quad stack, and never any issues seen with the
Fortress batteries.

The other odd thing, is since he rebooted the batteries, the
system is working fine, and recharging to 100%  by 9:30 am as
before.    Is it possible the Fortress BMS were damaged and are
now having an intermittent shutdown issue?  I did ask him to
temporarily disconnect the comms between batteries, in case it
is a bad BMS on one, it will isolate it from the other.

This is a tough one to figure out, since it hasn't happened
again, and there are no fault codes.  The Mate 3 shows a low
frequency AC code, but that's usually just from the generator
shutting down.    Any help, ideas, experiences, would be
greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Ray Walters
Remote Solar

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Re: [RE-wrenches] OB Radian / FM60 grid tie mystery

[Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches]

Will have to upgrade AC circuitry for the additional current if not already 
so.-GlennSent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling 
errors.-- Original message--From: Bill Battagin via RE-wrenchesDate: 
Tue, Aug 27, 2024 4:03 PMTo: offgridso...@sti.net;RE-wrenches;Cc: Bill 
Battagin;Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] OB Radian / FM60 grid tie mystery
Wrenches,
            We have a customer with older (circa 2008) SMA
  SB5000US that seems to have failed.  Zonna is not an option, none
  in stock. You Love Solar wants $4K+ (with tax,and shipping) but we
  have a new SMA SB6.0-1SP-US-40 in a dusty box in stock. 

            

            

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, owner
4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
Taylorsville, CA  95983
530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
CA. C10 Lic # 874049
Solar Powered since 1982
Home of the Sunny Side Up


 
  Virus-free.www.avast.com ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Shutdown?

[Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches]

RayI think you are on to something. I have multiple eVault MAX batteries on a Radian and I have had mysterious random shutdowns with high SOC before. Could be they were off grid at the time or had a big load shut off causing a voltage bounce. The batteries are comm’d together but not to the Radian, of course. If that is the case, I wonder if there is a newer battery firmware that can over come this or in fact why a LiFePO4 can’t go over 55.2 when most have a 58.4V limit. Thank you,MaverickMaverick BrownOff-Grid Solar Commander since 2006Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maver...@mavericksolar.com512-460-9825On Aug 27, 2024, at 5:24 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches  wrote:

  

  
  
Is it possible that a load shut off, and then the controllers
  over shot the voltage long enough to shut the BMS off?  If so,
  what's the solution? Lower absorb voltages?  I checked voltage
  calibration between the various pieces of equipment.

Ray

On 8/27/2024 4:14 PM, Jerry Shafer via
  RE-wrenches wrote:


  
  
High voltage disconnect would do this, is the site
  monitored
Fun times
  
  
  
On Tue, Aug 27, 2024, 2:47 PM
  jay via RE-wrenches 
  wrote:


  I
have a buddy in tech support at Fortress.


I asked him and he said that elevated absorb volts
  above 55.2 could cause this situation.  
And then the power cycle would reboot the BMS.


I am presuming its open loop, and the fact you
  mentioned that there was more PV and then the shut down
  sure might be connected.  
You might check the charge voltages/time to make sure
  they are correct and I can’t remember if the classic has
  battery sense wire connections. 


jay











  

  On Aug 27, 2024, at 2:51 PM, Ray Walters via
RE-wrenches 
wrote:
  
  

  The SPD was on one of the PV inputs before it
came into the house.  There were two Classics,
each fed with its own PV input and SPD.  It
actually caused an underground splice to fail
(high resistance) which I replaced the splice
and restored full voltage, and both Classics
were working fine.  Just seems unlikely ( but
not impossible) that the surge would make it
past the Classic without damage, but then damage
the Fortress BMS in an otherwise imperceptible
manner.   That is our current best theory at the
moment though.   I added an SPD on the 48 v
buss, before this latest total shutdown.    
  
  Ray Walters
  
  On 8/27/2024 2:35 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid
Solar via RE-wrenches wrote:
  
  
When I have had
  someone lose an SPD (I assume it was on DC
  buss) there is often latent damage (shows up
  later) to many of the devices.  In a Hi Rel
  mode, it is recommended to replace it all.
  Most offgrid is not that critical but try
  telling that to someone with rotten food.
 
The freezers and reefers are often full of
  spoils that smells never go away. YUK !
   
  Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
  https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060



On 2024-08-27
  1:02 pm, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:

  Greetings All;

I have Fortress Battery installation with a
pair of E Vault batteries set up in a
Master/ Slave arrangement.  Its been working
fine for over a year, but the customer just
   

Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Shutdown?

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Just curious what high SoC is?  I set mine for 95% or so and do not 
worry about the last few %.


Have not seen this problem but do not use fortress. Should not have shut 
downs offgrid except LBCO or lightning.


I really think that an SPD should be on the battery as well as AC in and 
out these days,

especially with a 48V BMS.  Tempting the demons!

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-08-27 4:19 pm, Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches wrote:


Ray

I think you are on to something.

I have multiple eVault MAX batteries on a Radian and I have had 
mysterious random shutdowns with high SOC before.


Could be they were off grid at the time or had a big load shut off 
causing a voltage bounce.


The batteries are comm'd together but not to the Radian, of course.

If that is the case, I wonder if there is a newer battery firmware that 
can over come this or in fact why a LiFePO4 can't go over 55.2 when 
most have a 58.4V limit.


Thank you,

Maverick

Maverick Brown
Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006
Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.
* Solar Commander Remote Power
* SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection
maver...@mavericksolar.com
512-460-9825

On Aug 27, 2024, at 5:24 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Is it possible that a load shut off, and then the controllers over shot 
the voltage long enough to shut the BMS off?  If so, what's the 
solution? Lower absorb voltages?  I checked voltage calibration between 
the various pieces of equipment.


Ray

On 8/27/2024 4:14 PM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches wrote:

High voltage disconnect would do this, is the site monitored

Fun times

On Tue, Aug 27, 2024, 2:47 PM jay via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:

I have a buddy in tech support at Fortress.

I asked him and he said that elevated absorb volts above 55.2 could 
cause this situation.

And then the power cycle would reboot the BMS.

I am presuming its open loop, and the fact you mentioned that there was 
more PV and then the shut down sure might be connected.
You might check the charge voltages/time to make sure they are correct 
and I can't remember if the classic has battery sense wire connections.


jay

On Aug 27, 2024, at 2:51 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


The SPD was on one of the PV inputs before it came into the house.  
There were two Classics, each fed with its own PV input and SPD.  It 
actually caused an underground splice to fail (high resistance) which I 
replaced the splice and restored full voltage, and both Classics were 
working fine.  Just seems unlikely ( but not impossible) that the surge 
would make it past the Classic without damage, but then damage the 
Fortress BMS in an otherwise imperceptible manner.   That is our 
current best theory at the moment though.   I added an SPD on the 48 v 
buss, before this latest total shutdown.


Ray Walters

On 8/27/2024 2:35 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches 
wrote:
When I have had someone lose an SPD (I assume it was on DC buss) there 
is often latent damage (shows up later) to many of the devices.  In a 
Hi Rel mode, it is recommended to replace it all. Most offgrid is not 
that critical but try telling that to someone with rotten food.


The freezers and reefers are often full of spoils that smells never go 
away. YUK !


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
[1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-08-27 1:02 pm, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:
Greetings All;

I have Fortress Battery installation with a pair of E Vault batteries 
set up in a Master/ Slave arrangement.  Its been working fine for over 
a year, but the customer just had a complete shutdown of the batteries 
which left multiple freezers, and refrigerator with rotting food.   
When he rebooted the batteries by turning on/off the main breaker on 
each, they both come up and showed 100% SOC on the Master, and 98% on 
the other.There were no fault codes.   I just recently installed a 
larger PV array, and so the system has been reaching full charge every 
morning.


I have multiple calls in to Fortress, but not hearing anything back 
from them at all.  We did have a lightning surge event a few months 
ago, that damaged a Midnite SPD (first ever for me), and took out the 
control board on the generator.  One VFX inverter has an LED out, but 
we only use two inverters of the Quad stack, so I just switched to 
another inverter.  All other equipment appeared fine: Midnite 
controllers, rest of the Outback VFX quad stack, and never any issues 
seen with the Fortress batteries.


The other odd thing, is since he rebooted the batteries, the system is 
working fine, and recharging to 100%  by 9:30 am as before.Is it 
possible the Fortress BMS were damaged and are now having an 
intermittent shutdown issue?  I did ask him to temporarily disconnect 
the comms between batteries, i

Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Shutdown?

[Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches]

High SOC would be 96% or so. One of my sites has five eVault MAX. There is a little bit of SOC to Voltage difference, maybe one of them is going over causing the whole lot to trigger a shutdown. I would like to know the definite shutdown voltage setting. The next time I go there, I’ll bring a laptop, a dongle and poke the bear. This has only happened twice in 2.5 years. So, overall, it is working great. FYI, MidNite SPDs on all possible components. Thank you,MaverickMaverick BrownOff-Grid Solar Commander since 2006Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maver...@mavericksolar.com512-460-9825On Aug 27, 2024, at 6:43 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches  wrote:

Just curious what high SoC is?  I set mine for 95% or so and do not worry about the last few %. Have not seen this problem but do not use fortress. Should not have shut downs offgrid except LBCO or lightning.I really think that an SPD should be on the battery as well as AC in and out these days,especially with a 48V BMS.  Tempting the demons!
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
  https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060


On 2024-08-27 4:19 pm, Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches wrote:

Ray
 
I think you are on to something. 
 
I have multiple eVault MAX batteries on a Radian and I have had mysterious random shutdowns with high SOC before. 
 
Could be they were off grid at the time or had a big load shut off causing a voltage bounce. 
 
The batteries are comm'd together but not to the Radian, of course. 
 
If that is the case, I wonder if there is a newer battery firmware that can over come this or in fact why a LiFePO4 can't go over 55.2 when most have a 58.4V limit. 

Thank you,
 
Maverick


 
Maverick BrownOff-Grid Solar Commander since 2006Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maver...@mavericksolar.com512-460-9825
 


 


On Aug 27, 2024, at 5:24 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches  wrote:



Is it possible that a load shut off, and then the controllers over shot the voltage long enough to shut the BMS off?  If so, what's the solution? Lower absorb voltages?  I checked voltage calibration between the various pieces of equipment.
Ray
On 8/27/2024 4:14 PM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches wrote:


High voltage disconnect would do this, is the site monitored
Fun times



On Tue, Aug 27, 2024, 2:47 PM jay via RE-wrenches  wrote:

I have a buddy in tech support at Fortress.
 
I asked him and he said that elevated absorb volts above 55.2 could cause this situation.  
And then the power cycle would reboot the BMS.
 
I am presuming its open loop, and the fact you mentioned that there was more PV and then the shut down sure might be connected.  
You might check the charge voltages/time to make sure they are correct and I can't remember if the classic has battery sense wire connections. 
 
jay
 
 
 
 
 



On Aug 27, 2024, at 2:51 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches  wrote:



The SPD was on one of the PV inputs before it came into the house.  There were two Classics, each fed with its own PV input and SPD.  It actually caused an underground splice to fail (high resistance) which I replaced the splice and restored full voltage, and both Classics were working fine.  Just seems unlikely ( but not impossible) that the surge would make it past the Classic without damage, but then damage the Fortress BMS in an otherwise imperceptible manner.   That is our current best theory at the moment though.   I added an SPD on the 48 v buss, before this latest total shutdown.    
Ray Walters
On 8/27/2024 2:35 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches wrote:

When I have had someone lose an SPD (I assume it was on DC buss) there is often latent damage (shows up later) to many of the devices.  In a Hi Rel mode, it is recommended to replace it all. Most offgrid is not that critical but try telling that to someone with rotten food.
 
The freezers and reefers are often full of spoils that smells never go away. YUK !
 
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
  https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060


On 2024-08-27 1:02 pm, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:

Greetings All;I have Fortress Battery installation with a pair of E Vault batteries set up in a Master/ Slave arrangement.  Its been working fine for over a year, but the customer just had a complete shutdown of the batteries which left multiple freezers, and refrigerator with rotting food.   When he rebooted the batteries by turning on/off the main breaker on each, they both come up and showed 100% SOC on the Master, and 98% on the other.    There were no fault codes.   I just recently installed a larger PV array, and so the system has been reaching full charge every morning.I have multiple calls in to Fortress, but n

[RE-wrenches] Swapping vintage SMA inverter to SB-40?

[Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches,

            Earlier post was accidental, incomplete (below). Anyway,  
I've since rec'd a response from SMA (Thanks Mike), despite my lack of 
details of this proposed change-out he offered some valuable tips.


            Yes, I was hoping by splitting this array of 30, Evergreen 
190's into two strings, using 2 of the three MPPT inputs in the SMA 
SB-40 and using the existing wiring which is: "Diesel Locomotive Cable" 
yes, see the picture, leads from the PVs and USE-2 for home runs (in 
conduit), that this would work.


            A couple times I've taken the gamble of purchasing used 
not-to-old inverters off Ebay but as time goes on I'm feeling like my 
luck so far won't hold out.  Sometimes you can find an old inverter that 
doesn't many KWhrs on it and was mounted inside or north side of the 
house with a cooler climateIt depends on the customer and 
situation.  This seems like a solid way to go but would appreciate (+) 
or (-) feedback, experience.


            I wish I'd stocked up on SB-40's and 41's before they 
disappeared.


Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, owner
4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
Taylorsville, CA  95983
530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
CA. C10 Lic # 874049
Solar Powered since 1982
Home of the Sunny Side Up

On 8/27/2024 1:02 PM, Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches wrote:


Wrenches,

            We have a customer with older (circa 2008) SMA SB5000US 
that seems to have failed.  Zonna is not an option, none in stock. You 
Love Solar wants $4K+ (with tax,and shipping) but we have a new SMA 
SB6.0-1SP-US-40 in a dusty box in stock.




Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, owner
4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
Taylorsville, CA  95983
530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
CA. C10 Lic # 874049
Solar Powered since 1982
Home of the Sunny Side Up

 
	Virus-free.www.avast.com 
 



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