Re: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge AC coupled off-grid (part 2)

[Howie Michaelson]

Hi Ray,
I get the issues with AC coupling.  However, this system already has a 3+
kW DC coupled array, the new array is close to 200' away, and it would take
2 more charge controllers of any of high voltage ones for this size array.
Are there any battery based inverters that folks have had decent luck with
AC coupling in an off-grid environment?  (My preference would be the XW+).
Thanks,
Howie

On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 1:43 AM Ray  wrote:

> I do not recommend AC coupling for off grid, except to offset daytime
> loads or to add PV at remote buildings.  Besides coupling errors like
> you're experiencing, the entire system will shut down and not recharge, if
> the VFX inverters shut down.   With a DC coupled array, the batteries can
> recharge, even if the inverters have shut down for low voltage, over load,
> etc.  At least when someone comes to reset it, the battery won't be dead
> too.  The 3rd reason, as you've found, SE and other GT manus, don't want to
> deal with off grid.
>
> There are higher voltage, higher capacity Charge controllers available
> now, like the FM100, and Magnum PT 100 that could almost handle that array
> with one controller.  The PT 100 will work with Midnite's SOB rapid
> disconnect system.
>
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
>
> On 7/24/19 11:03 PM, Howie Michaelson wrote:
>
> sorry, prematurely emailed previous post:
>
> I'm wondering if the VFXs are just not capable of putting out clean enough
> power in order to hold the SE HD inverter. I had it operating on this same
> system for a couple of hours with not this problem.  Is it likely that this
> inverter combo is not going to work consistently?  Will it make sense to
> use a different battery inverter (XW+6848 or Radian)? What has folks
> experience been in similar off-grid AC coupled SE systems?
> As always, thanks in advance for any thoughts.
>
> Best,
> Howie
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Large Off-Grid Residential System and ciculating currents

[Jason Szumlanski]

Yeah, it's my understanding that the BMS systems on each parallel battery
deals with/prevents any imbalance.

As for 48V, I have been working with some that are 51V nominal and I know
there are some 60V solutions out there, so it's not so cut and dry to use
amp-hours. That's why I like talk in kWh to standardize.

I am taking the DoD into account when discussing my needs. I would probably
need a battery almost double the size in a lead acid chemistry!




On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 8:59 PM Jerry Shafer 
wrote:

> William
> I have a few blue ion installs that was used for testing. I used eguage to
> monitor all DC in and out of each stack of 16k with no issues.  The BMU
> manages everything and can be chained to each other to reduce or even
> prevent that issue. I have seen Blue Ions original stacks greater then 100k
> with years in the field, so with that cross bleed should be not a problem.
> Jerry
>
> On Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 4:59 PM William Miller 
> wrote:
>
>> Friends:
>>
>>
>>
>> I am a complete newbie to any lithium technologies, so please forgive
>> some newbie questions:
>>
>>
>>
>> I am used to working in amp hours.  If we are looking for a battery bank
>> in the range of 100 kWh, this converts to about 2,083 amp/hours at 48 VDC.
>> Is my arithmetic correct?  An on-line calculator seems to confirm this.
>>
>>
>>
>> The biggest Blue Ion 2 battery is 16 kwh.  At 48 VDC this is about 333
>> amp/hours.  This is like an L16.  To get 100 kwh you would need to parallel
>> 6 strings of the 16 kWh batteries.  I would never do this with L-16s.  Is
>> anyone worried about circulating currents in this type of installation?  Is
>> there technology to prevent one string from cannibalizing another?
>>
>>
>>
>> Here is another, more academic question below:
>>
>>
>>
>> In case I am using a term I made up (which is often the case), I define
>> circulating currents as currents flowing between parallel strings without
>> any outside influence.  For example, if you disconnected all charging and
>> loads from an array with two parallel strings, unless the strings were
>> absolutely identical in electrical characteristics, there would be some
>> current flowing between the two strings.  In my opinion this is the
>> Achilles heel in parallel strings.  Also my opinions:  2. The more strings
>> you have the more chance there will be debilitating circulating currents.
>> 3. The older the batteries, the more the electrical characteristics will
>> vary and the more likely you will get higher circulating currents.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is my theory that if you can measure the circulating currents, or the
>> difference between parallel battery strings at any point in the operation
>> of same, you can get a read on the health of the strings.  The more the
>> operating or idle currents diverge, the more one string will discharge the
>> other string.  I guess this is some part of a battery management system.  I
>> am guessing for the Blue Ion 2 to work in 6 parallel strings, they need to
>> monitor and control this difference in currents.
>>
>>
>>
>> We just installed a flooded battery array (2 strings of 4 Deka M6100-33
>> batteries).  My plan is to retrofit the installation with a 1000A/100mv
>> shunt in the negative leads of both strings.  With a DVM I can spot check
>> the circulating currents to learn about the battery health.  In fact I have
>> a remote monitoring system
>> 
>> with some spare ports that can log these values.  Might be an interesting
>> experiment.
>>
>>
>>
>> I appreciate any input on the viability of the Blue Ion 2 or other small
>> battery systems in multi-string installations.  My customers are asking for
>> new technology, but I instinctively avoid parallel battery strings.
>>
>>
>>
>> William Miller
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Miller Solar
>>
>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>>
>> 805-438-5600
>>
>> www.millersolar.com
>>
>> CA Lic. 773985
>>
>>
>>
>> Quote of the month:  “As they age, batteries transition from energy
>>
>> storage devices to energy consuming devices.“ W. Miller
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
>> Behalf Of *Lou Russo
>> *Sent:* Saturday, July 20, 2019 1:50 PM
>> *To:* RE-wrenches
>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Large Off-Grid Residential System
>>
>>
>>
>> Blue Ion 2.0 with Outback or SMA. Works every time.
>>
>> Blue Planet's tech support is great, the warranty is even better.
>>
>>
>>
>> Aloha,
>>
>>
>>
>> Lou Russo
>>
>> l...@spreesolarsystems.com
>>
>> 808 345 6762
>>
>> Spree Solar Systems LLC
>>
>> CT-34322
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 10:36 AM Jay  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Marco,
>>
>>
>>
>> Is the max surge 7kw, which is what is listed on line?
>>
>>
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> Peltz Power
>>
>>
>> On Jul 19, 2019, at 3:10 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Seven to eight Tesla Powerwalls will get you that assuming that the
>> service e

Re: [RE-wrenches] Consolidating meters

[Jason Szumlanski]

In Florida the utility must offer a single point of service for a property
or contiguous properties owned by a single entity, even if broken by a road
or other easement. If the properties are not contiguous, the utility can
require separate meters, but you'd have a hard time maintaining electrical
continuity for the PV system across non-contiguous properties anyway!

We have done it (subbed it out). It's not that difficult if the meters are
in reasonably close proximity. The cost was well justified based on FL Net
Metering Rules , which prohibits conjunctive/aggregated billing for
separate account (meters).




On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 2:30 PM Andrew Truitt  wrote:

>
> Happy 4th Wrenches!  Has anyone ever been through the process of
> consolidating utility electric meters for a client?  We're talking to an
> HOA that has 15 meters throughout the community for common area loads
> (clubhouse, pool pump, lighting, fountain...) so they're paying a fixed
> monthly charge on each in addition to energy and demand charges.
> Consolidating to a single master meter (possibly with sub-metering) would
> likely lower their costs on its own, and (more importantly?) would improve
> the value proposition for a PV+ESS installation.  We're not sure if the
> community is served by a single or multiple transformers yet, but if it is
> just one then the process should be straightforward from a technical
> standpoint.  The interwebs tell me that some providers (seems like mostly
> co-ops) are open to this, but I can't find anything for this particular
> utility.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Andrew Truitt
>
> www.dr.ventures
> d: 202.486.7507
>
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional ID: 032407-66
> Colorado Journeyman Electrician License No.: 600132
>
> [image: Logo]
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge AC coupled off-grid (part 2)

[Ray]

I've AC coupled off grid with the Sunny Island, but I haven't tried it 
with Solar Edge.  Can you adjust the Solar Edge coupling window to 
outside the IEEE set points?  We used to have set all GT inverters in 
Hawaii wider, because the utility wanted them to stay on longer in a 
brown out.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 7/25/19 5:55 AM, Howie Michaelson wrote:

Hi Ray,
I get the issues with AC coupling.  However, this system already has a 
3+ kW DC coupled array, the new array is close to 200' away, and it 
would take 2 more charge controllers of any of high voltage ones for 
this size array.
Are there any battery based inverters that folks have had decent luck 
with AC coupling in an off-grid environment?  (My preference would be 
the XW+).

Thanks,
Howie

On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 1:43 AM Ray > wrote:


I do not recommend AC coupling for off grid, except to offset
daytime loads or to add PV at remote buildings. Besides coupling
errors like you're experiencing, the entire system will shut down
and not recharge, if the VFX inverters shut down.   With a DC
coupled array, the batteries can recharge, even if the inverters
have shut down for low voltage, over load, etc.  At least when
someone comes to reset it, the battery won't be dead too. The 3rd
reason, as you've found, SE and other GT manus, don't want to deal
with off grid.

There are higher voltage, higher capacity Charge controllers
available now, like the FM100, and Magnum PT 100 that could almost
handle that array with one controller.  The PT 100 will work with
Midnite's SOB rapid disconnect system.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 7/24/19 11:03 PM, Howie Michaelson wrote:

sorry, prematurely emailed previous post:

I'm wondering if the VFXs are just not capable of putting out
clean enough power in order to hold the SE HD inverter. I had it
operating on this same system for a couple of hours with not this
problem.  Is it likely that this inverter combo is not going to
work consistently?  Will it make sense to use a different battery
inverter (XW+6848 or Radian)? What has folks experience been in
similar off-grid AC coupled SE systems?
As always, thanks in advance for any thoughts.

Best,
Howie

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[RE-wrenches] Enphase and Tesla Powerwall

[Marco Mangelsdorf]

Aloha,

I’m thinking about combining the Enphase IQ 7 micros with a Tesla Powerwall
or two.

Anyone out there try this?  With bueno or not so bueno results?

Mahalo,
marco
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge reliability declining...???

[Martin Herzfeld]

Good to know.

1.  I just installed the latest SetApp inverters (the ones without
displays) for a ground-mounted array with the inverter in the dwelling.

2.  The ground-mounted system had to comply with CEC 2016/NEC 2014 690.12
in California because the system was "in the building." Would the inverter
in an indoor or outdoor location be a factor in the failures?

All the best,

Martin Herzfeld, Interstate Renewable Energy Council (IREC) Certified
Master Trainer ™ for Photovoltaics (PV) Installation Professional #IREC
10037
https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/a54a49a9-31cb-4f52-b35f-9d7c90630bb9/public_url
Adjunct Professor, Energy, American River College
Contract Training Provider (CTP)

Since 2004. California Solar Contractor License  #00833782  C46, D56, D31,
C-7
Solar, Trenching, Pole Installation & Maintenance, Instrumentation

Contract Solar (PV) Technical Inspector - 3rd Party Inspections
Underwriters Laboratories (UL) Certified PV Installer #17, OSHA 30
OSHA-Authorized Construction Trainer #32-0105338
CompTIA Certified Technical Classroom Trainer (CTT+) #T3NSZCNBBKB4QTQG
https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/f23ae19b-0370-4ca1-99d1-418403a8faea/linked_in_profile

* Professional Member, International Association of Electrical Inspectors
* Registered North American Board of Certified Energy Practitioners
(NABCEP) Continuing Education (CE) Provider
https://coursecatalog.nabcep.org/providers/martin-herzfeld


On Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 7:37 AM Howard Arey  wrote:

> Have any of you seen significant declines in SolarEdge inverter
> reliability?
>
> We are having more inverter failures that at any time in the past five
> years of installing SolarEdge. Lots of Code 181 hardware failures mostly in
> the latest SetApp inverters (the ones without displays.)
>
> To compound matters, the RMA process is getting way too long and we are
> waiting appx 3 weeks on average to receive a replacement. Customers
> definitely not happy…
>
> What are you all seeing?
>
>
>
> *Howard “Scot” Arey*
>
> Owner, Solar CenTex
>
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
>
> 254-300-1228
>
> scot.a...@solarcentex.com
>
>
>
> www.solarcentex.com
>
> https://www.facebook.com/SolarCentex
>
> [image: Solar Centex Logo - No Back]
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] To Bond or Not to Bond the Neutral to Ground

[Jason Szumlanski]

I think the answer is in 250.28(D)(2). A bonding jumper is required in each
service disconnect (including the solar disconnect) bonding neutral to
ground.

Then you have to look to 250.64(D) for how to run your GEC. There are
multiple ways to comply.

Consider 250.64(D)(3):
Think of a wiring enclosure with service laterals that has a bus bar for
neutral (as in multiple service disconnects for a property, regardless of
whether solar is present). Each service disconnect neutral connects to the
bus bar, but there is no GEC from each disconnect to the grounding
electrode. There is a single point on the bus bar in the service lateral
enclosure where the GEC connects and is routed to the grounding electrode
system. Each service disconnect requires a bonding jumper from neutral to
ground. But in that case you do not need to run a GEC from each service
disconnect bus bar to the service lateral bus bar. You only run the GEC
from a single disconnect or a single point on the common bus bar in the
service lateral enclosure. The neutral provides the EGC function/pathway
for each service disconnect. It might seem a little strange to NOT run a
EGC to each service disconnect, but that's the way I read it. So the single
common point of connection of the GEC can be in the existing service
disconnect and no GEC is required at all from the solar disconnect. The
bonding jumper is required to be installed in the solar disconnect.

But 250.64(D)(1) is the way we do it. Every jurisdiction around here
requires that a neutral and a ground (GEC) be run to each service
disconnect, including the solar disconnect and that the bonding jumper be
installed in the solar disconnect.

Another way I have seen it done that I DO NOT believe complies is to simply
pass through the solar neutral in the solar disconnect without landing it
there and just land it in the existing main service panel.








On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 4:39 PM Rick Brown <
r...@solshineenergyalternatives.com> wrote:

> Al,
> See 250.2:
> “Bonding Jumper, Supply-Side. A conductor installed on the supply side of
> a service or within a service equipment enclosure(s), or for a separately
> derived system, that ensures the required electrical conductivity between
> metal.”
>
> rick brown
> SolShine Energy Alternatives, LLC
> Electrical & Solar Contracting Services
> www.SolShineEnergyAlternatives.com
> Check, Virginia 24072
> 540.808.9502
>
> VA Class A Contractor Lic# 2705147660
> VA Master Electrician Lic# 2710062762
> VA Alternative Energy Systems Installer
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional 110112-21
>
> On Jul 23, 2019, at 9:38 AM, Al Frishman  wrote:
>
> Hey Wrenchers,
> I have been having a design debate with several associates regarding
> bonding the Neutral to the Ground for Line Side grid connections.
>
> In the fused solar AC Disconnect located closest to the Service Line Side
> grid connection should the Neutral be bonded to Ground?  What Article in
> the NEC defines the requirement.
>
> As always your feedback is appreciated.
>
> *Al Frishman*
> EvolvedSolar
> (917) 699-6641
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase and Tesla Powerwall

[August Goers]

Hi Marco - We have dozens of systems with this combo, so far no problem.
Tesla's AC coupling mechanism in general seems to be very robust - we've
paired them with many inverter types and brands, and they always seem to
couple up during our grid-off tests. Since the vast majority of our systems
are grid tied, the real test will be how they will work over the long haul
if we have major grid outages - who knows if and when that might happen.
I've been in PG&E territory in the Bay Area for about 15 years and can only
recall one or two short (less than one hour) power outages.


August




On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 7:58 AM Marco Mangelsdorf 
wrote:

> Aloha,
>
> I’m thinking about combining the Enphase IQ 7 micros with a Tesla
> Powerwall or two.
>
> Anyone out there try this?  With bueno or not so bueno results?
>
> Mahalo,
> marco
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 230Vac load on OB FX2524T system

[Ray]

The transformer balances the legs, each leg being fed by a separate 
inverter.  We're not in disagreement.


The stacking mode I described is if he didn't use the T former. I prefer 
the non T former set up,  as I've seen several cases were the master 
inverter was over worked, and had to be rebuilt and/ or have its fan 
replaced within 5 to 8 years.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 7/25/19 8:45 AM, Jay wrote:

Hi Ray,

I am going to disagree with you.
The transformer in OB stacking mode balances the inverter outputs and 
allows out of balance phase power. Depending on how you set the power 
save mode it’ll use master then trigger slave to turn on about  1000 
watts. But you could have 2000 watts on leg 1 with each inverter doing 
1000 watts.


As to the mode, you need OB stacking, not classic stacking for the use 
of the balancing transformer.


Jay


On Jul 24, 2019, at 9:43 PM, Ray > wrote:


The transformer is just to balance the legs, and isn't necessary to 
run the heat pump with 2 inverters.  On the programming, port 1 
should be /stack //1-2 ph Master/, and then set port 2 to /Classic 
slave./


BTW,  we as an industry should move far away from this archaic and 
offensive labeling.  Master? Slave?   My daughter heard me mention 
that the other day and was mortified, as all of us should be too.  
Gentlefolks, it's time for some 21st Century solar Vocabulary.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
On 7/24/19 6:08 PM, David Palumbo wrote:


I apologize for my ignorance on this issue, but in all my years I 
have never had to power a 230V load with an OutBack system before.


A couple of quick questions. It is a 8 year old OutBack system with 
two FX2524T’s presently powering two 120Vac legs with no 240Vac output.


  * Homeowner is adding a Fujitsu mini split heat pump for air
conditioning the home (summers are getting hot enough for AC
even in northern Vermont).
  * It uses 7.9 Amps @ 230Vac
  * I have a OB PSX-240 Autoformer manufactured in 2008 in my
inventory here. Should I use it for this application?
  * Do I wire it up just like in this schematic?
  * If so, what do I change in the programing on the Mate? Presently
it is ADV/FX/STACK  stack 1-2ph Master. Do I simply change it to
 ADV/FX/STACK  stack Classic Slave?

Thanks,

Dave Palumbo, Independent Power, Hyde Park, VT

cid:image003.jpg@01D54135.D30AA520

Sent from Mail  for 
Windows 10



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Re: [RE-wrenches] 230Vac load on OB FX2524T system

[Glenn Burt]

If you are talking about two 120VAC legs, then the split phase voltage is 240V, 
not 230V which is what you would see as a standard in Europe not here.

 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
David Palumbo
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2019 12:48 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 230Vac load on OB FX2524T system

 

It is a standard 60Hz 230Vac unit

 

Sent from Mail   for Windows 10

 

From: Kirpal  
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2019 12:45 PM
To: RE-wrenches  
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 230Vac load on OB FX2524T system

 

Is the mini split European voltage where it is 230v line 1 to 
neutral..Outback makes inverters for that too 50 hz?

Kirpal

 

On Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 11:06 PM David Palumbo mailto:palumbo1...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I apologize for my ignorance on this issue, but in all my years I have never 
had to power a 230V load with an OutBack system before. 

A couple of quick questions. It is a 8 year old OutBack system with two 
FX2524T’s presently powering two 120Vac legs with no 240Vac output.

*   Homeowner is adding a Fujitsu mini split heat pump for air conditioning 
the home (summers are getting hot enough for AC even in northern Vermont). 
*   It uses 7.9 Amps @ 230Vac 
*   I have a OB PSX-240 Autoformer manufactured in 2008 in my inventory 
here. Should I use it for this application?
*   Do I wire it up just like in this schematic?
*   If so, what do I change in the programing on the Mate?  Presently it is 
ADV/FX/STACK  stack 1-2ph Master. Do I simply change it to  ADV/FX/STACK  stack 
Classic Slave?

Thanks,

Dave Palumbo, Independent Power, Hyde Park, VT

 



 

Sent from Mail   for Windows 10

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase and Tesla Powerwall

[Jerry Shafer]

Marco
Yes, we have, has a single tesla all for HECo, probably you have the same
thought for your customer, we can talk more off line if interested.
Jerry

On Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 7:58 AM Marco Mangelsdorf  wrote:

> Aloha,
>
> I’m thinking about combining the Enphase IQ 7 micros with a Tesla
> Powerwall or two.
>
> Anyone out there try this?  With bueno or not so bueno results?
>
> Mahalo,
> marco
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[RE-wrenches] Enphase and Tesla Powerwall

[Marco Mangelsdorf]

Sounds encouraging, August. Mahalo.

Are any of those systems zero export by any chance?

marco

On Thursday, July 25, 2019, August Goers  wrote:

> Hi Marco - We have dozens of systems with this combo, so far no problem.
> Tesla's AC coupling mechanism in general seems to be very robust - we've
> paired them with many inverter types and brands, and they always seem to
> couple up during our grid-off tests. Since the vast majority of our systems
> are grid tied, the real test will be how they will work over the long haul
> if we have major grid outages - who knows if and when that might happen.
> I've been in PG&E territory in the Bay Area for about 15 years and can only
> recall one or two short (less than one hour) power outages.
>
>
> August
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 7:58 AM Marco Mangelsdorf 
> wrote:
>
>> Aloha,
>>
>> I’m thinking about combining the Enphase IQ 7 micros with a Tesla
>> Powerwall or two.
>>
>> Anyone out there try this?  With bueno or not so bueno results?
>>
>> Mahalo,
>> marco
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 230Vac load on OB FX2524T system

[David Palumbo]

The heat pump is a made for USA product that operates on 1ph 60Hz and with an 
acceptable voltage range of 210 to 253Vac. I don’t know why they list it as 
230Vac, could have listed it as 240Vac. Same thing as loads that are either 
listed as 115Vac or 120Vac, not much real world difference. With typical 
utility voltages and with line loss going out to the heat pump actual voltage 
at the load is more likely closer to 230Vac than to 240Vac.
Dave Palumbo

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Glenn Burt
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2019 1:53 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 230Vac load on OB FX2524T system

If you are talking about two 120VAC legs, then the split phase voltage is 240V, 
not 230V which is what you would see as a standard in Europe not here.

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
David Palumbo
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2019 12:48 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 230Vac load on OB FX2524T system

It is a standard 60Hz 230Vac unit

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Kirpal
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2019 12:45 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 230Vac load on OB FX2524T system

Is the mini split European voltage where it is 230v line 1 to 
neutral..Outback makes inverters for that too 50 hz?
Kirpal

On Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 11:06 PM David Palumbo  wrote:
I apologize for my ignorance on this issue, but in all my years I have never 
had to power a 230V load with an OutBack system before. 
A couple of quick questions. It is a 8 year old OutBack system with two 
FX2524T’s presently powering two 120Vac legs with no 240Vac output.
• Homeowner is adding a Fujitsu mini split heat pump for air conditioning the 
home (summers are getting hot enough for AC even in northern Vermont). 
• It uses 7.9 Amps @ 230Vac 
• I have a OB PSX-240 Autoformer manufactured in 2008 in my inventory here. 
Should I use it for this application?
• Do I wire it up just like in this schematic?
• If so, what do I change in the programing on the Mate?  Presently it is 
ADV/FX/STACK  stack 1-2ph Master. Do I simply change it to  ADV/FX/STACK  stack 
Classic Slave?
Thanks,
Dave Palumbo, Independent Power, Hyde Park, VT
 

 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 230Vac load on OB FX2524T system

[August Goers]

Many appliances, motors, AC units, etc are rated for 230 volts, but really
they work for our modern 240 volt services. If you do a quick web search,
it appears that US standard voltages over the years have morphed from 110
to 115, to 120 volt:

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/difference-between-220v-and-240v

-August


On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 12:11 PM David Palumbo 
wrote:

> The heat pump is a made for USA product that operates on 1ph 60Hz and with
> an acceptable voltage range of 210 to 253Vac. I don’t know why they list it
> as 230Vac, could have listed it as 240Vac. Same thing as loads that are
> either listed as 115Vac or 120Vac, not much real world difference. With
> typical utility voltages and with line loss going out to the heat pump
> actual voltage at the load is more likely closer to 230Vac than to 240Vac.
>
> Dave Palumbo
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail  for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Glenn Burt 
> *Sent: *Thursday, July 25, 2019 1:53 PM
> *To: *'RE-wrenches' 
> *Subject: *Re: [RE-wrenches] 230Vac load on OB FX2524T system
>
>
>
> If you are talking about two 120VAC legs, then the split phase voltage is
> 240V, not 230V which is what you would see as a standard in Europe not here.
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
> Behalf Of *David Palumbo
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 25, 2019 12:48 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] 230Vac load on OB FX2524T system
>
>
>
> It is a standard 60Hz 230Vac unit
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail  for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Kirpal 
> *Sent: *Thursday, July 25, 2019 12:45 PM
> *To: *RE-wrenches 
> *Subject: *Re: [RE-wrenches] 230Vac load on OB FX2524T system
>
>
>
> Is the mini split European voltage where it is 230v line 1 to
> neutral..Outback makes inverters for that too 50 hz?
>
> Kirpal
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 11:06 PM David Palumbo 
> wrote:
>
> I apologize for my ignorance on this issue, but in all my years I have
> never had to power a 230V load with an OutBack system before.
>
> A couple of quick questions. It is a 8 year old OutBack system with two
> FX2524T’s presently powering two 120Vac legs with no 240Vac output.
>
>- Homeowner is adding a Fujitsu mini split heat pump for air
>conditioning the home (summers are getting hot enough for AC even in
>northern Vermont).
>- It uses 7.9 Amps @ 230Vac
>- I have a OB PSX-240 Autoformer manufactured in 2008 in my inventory
>here. Should I use it for this application?
>- Do I wire it up just like in this schematic?
>- If so, what do I change in the programing on the Mate?  Presently it
>is ADV/FX/STACK  stack 1-2ph Master. Do I simply change it to  ADV/FX/STACK
> stack Classic Slave?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave Palumbo, Independent Power, Hyde Park, VT
>
>
>
> [image: cid:image003.jpg@01D54135.D30AA520]
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail  for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase and Tesla Powerwall

[August Goers]

No, we haven't done any zero export. I guess both the Powerwall and Enphase
systems would need to be independently programmed for zero export? I should
add a caveat - all of our IQ7 systems have been the SunPower branded
Equinox type, not Enphase. The main difference being that Enphase would use
their envoy box and SunPower uses the PV Supervisor 6.

August




On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 10:53 AM Marco Mangelsdorf 
wrote:

> Sounds encouraging, August. Mahalo.
>
> Are any of those systems zero export by any chance?
>
> marco
>
> On Thursday, July 25, 2019, August Goers  wrote:
>
>> Hi Marco - We have dozens of systems with this combo, so far no problem.
>> Tesla's AC coupling mechanism in general seems to be very robust - we've
>> paired them with many inverter types and brands, and they always seem to
>> couple up during our grid-off tests. Since the vast majority of our systems
>> are grid tied, the real test will be how they will work over the long haul
>> if we have major grid outages - who knows if and when that might happen.
>> I've been in PG&E territory in the Bay Area for about 15 years and can only
>> recall one or two short (less than one hour) power outages.
>>
>>
>> August
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 7:58 AM Marco Mangelsdorf 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Aloha,
>>>
>>> I’m thinking about combining the Enphase IQ 7 micros with a Tesla
>>> Powerwall or two.
>>>
>>> Anyone out there try this?  With bueno or not so bueno results?
>>>
>>> Mahalo,
>>> marco
>>> ___
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[RE-wrenches] 100ms for Locked Rotor Amps?

[Jeff Clearwater]

Hey There Wrenches,

So be advised that after a little research the SW dual stack will NOT 
double the surge ratings of a single SW.


But that brings me to my second question:

What inverter surge rating should one refer to when looking at maximum 
Inrush or LRA - 1ms? 100ms?  1 sec?


Yourengineering wisdom welcomed!

Thanks,

Jeff



Jeff Clearwater wrote on 7/23/19 8:27 PM:


Thanks for the tip! I'll check the firmware.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote on 7/22/19 9:11 AM:


Hi Jeff,

I am not going to guess if this will work, it should.  I use XW's 
because they start anything I have come across.


If you do this, make sure but SW's have the latest and same firmware. 
There were problems with stacked SW's early on in their development.


*Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" 
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net 
 text 209 813 0060*


On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 07:26:07 -0700, Jeff Clearwater 
 wrote:



Hey Esteemed Wrenches,

So I recently built a power trailer with a single 4 KW (4048) 
Schneider SW for a client with a moderate cabin lifestyle.


But he lives on a high hill and even though his 2 HP Macerator is 
only rated at 15 amps continuous that baby starts up with a whopping 
kick - probably close to or at it's 53 Amps Locked Rotor rating.


The SW has the following surge capability:

SW 4048 Rated@ 240 Volts:
Continuous - 15.2 Amps 3700 Watts
30 Minutes - 18.3 Amps 4400 Watts
5 Secs - 29.2 Amps 7000 Watts
Max (100ms?) - 41 Amps - 9840 Watts

Can I be confidant that 2 stacked SWs will start this baby?

Any experience with similar macerators - or simply educated guesses?

Thanks!

Jeff


--
  
*Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" 
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net 
 text 209 813 0060*




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Re: [RE-wrenches] 100ms for Locked Rotor Amps?

[Ray]

I only look at the 5 sec and 30 sec surge ratings to get an idea what an 
inverter can really do in the real world.  All those millisecond 
ratings/ in rush current specs won't get a pump or motor started, and 
will basically just get you into trouble.  The reason they have those 
ratings in amps and not watts, is that the voltage craters during that 
100mS surge.


I can't tell you how many times we tried to start a pump, compressor, or 
large table saw, and the inverter just shut off, even though the "in 
rush current" was within the theoretical inverter capacity.  Actual 
Wrench list testimonials are much more valuable than those arcane specs.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 7/25/19 5:15 PM, Jeff Clearwater wrote:

Hey There Wrenches,

So be advised that after a little research the SW dual stack will NOT 
double the surge ratings of a single SW.


But that brings me to my second question:

What inverter surge rating should one refer to when looking at maximum 
Inrush or LRA - 1ms?  100ms?  1 sec?


Yourengineering wisdom welcomed!

Thanks,

Jeff



Jeff Clearwater wrote on 7/23/19 8:27 PM:


Thanks for the tip!  I'll check the firmware.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote on 7/22/19 9:11 AM:


Hi Jeff,

I am not going to guess if this will work, it should.  I use XW's 
because they start anything I have come across.


If you do this, make sure but SW's have the latest and same 
firmware. There were problems with stacked SW's early on in their 
development.


*Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" 
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net 
 text 209 813 0060*


On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 07:26:07 -0700, Jeff Clearwater 
 wrote:



Hey Esteemed Wrenches,

So I recently built a power trailer with a single 4 KW (4048) 
Schneider SW for a client with a moderate cabin lifestyle.


But he lives on a high hill and even though his 2 HP Macerator is 
only rated at 15 amps continuous that baby starts up with a 
whopping kick - probably close to or at it's 53 Amps Locked Rotor 
rating.


The SW has the following surge capability:

SW 4048 Rated@ 240 Volts:
Continuous - 15.2 Amps 3700 Watts
30 Minutes - 18.3 Amps 4400 Watts
5 Secs - 29.2 Amps 7000 Watts
Max (100ms?) - 41 Amps - 9840 Watts

Can I be confidant that 2 stacked SWs will start this baby?

Any experience with similar macerators - or simply educated guesses?

Thanks!

Jeff


--
  
*Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" 
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net 
 text 209 813 0060*




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Re: [RE-wrenches] 100ms for Locked Rotor Amps?

[Jerry Shafer]

Wrenches
Some time back, (years) l did a off grid system for a customer that was
building his home, he was milli g lumber from the home site, l quoted a
Outback PS-4 3648, the customer already had a very large battery bank 2000
amp hrs. at 48 DC nominal. Anyway he had a well on a 5 hp. freq drive and a
very big tall 6" bandsaw, trace/Schneider said no way could there stack do
the job and it was larger. Outback on the other had said no problem and for
years after that PS-4 ran the well, the saws and now the finished home. It
is interesting that Schneider was not willing to do what Outback could,
they must have something in there root programming preventing the stacked
surge. Some like Chevrolet, some like Ford, l have done rows of Radians and
lm sure some out there have the same with other manufacturers. It's all
good data for all of us.
Jerry


On Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 4:15 PM Jeff Clearwater 
wrote:

> Hey There Wrenches,
>
> So be advised that after a little research the SW dual stack will NOT
> double the surge ratings of a single SW.
>
> But that brings me to my second question:
>
> What inverter surge rating should one refer to when looking at maximum
> Inrush or LRA - 1ms?  100ms?  1 sec?
>
> Your engineering wisdom welcomed!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> Jeff Clearwater wrote on 7/23/19 8:27 PM:
>
> Thanks for the tip!  I'll check the firmware.
>
> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote on 7/22/19 9:11 AM:
>
> Hi Jeff,
>
>
>
> I am not going to guess if this will work, it should.  I use XW's because
> they start anything I have come across.
>
> If you do this, make sure but SW's have the latest and same firmware.
> There were problems with stacked SW's early on in their development.
>
> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ 
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
> text 209 813 0060*
>
> On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 07:26:07 -0700, Jeff Clearwater
>   wrote:
>
> Hey Esteemed Wrenches,
>
> So I recently built a power trailer with a single 4 KW (4048) Schneider SW
> for a client with a moderate cabin lifestyle.
>
> But he lives on a high hill and even though his 2 HP Macerator is only
> rated at 15 amps continuous that baby starts up with a whopping kick -
> probably close to or at it's 53 Amps Locked Rotor rating.
>
> The SW has the following surge capability:
>
> SW 4048 Rated @ 240 Volts:
> Continuous - 15.2 Amps 3700 Watts
> 30 Minutes - 18.3 Amps 4400 Watts
> 5 Secs - 29.2 Amps 7000 Watts
> Max (100ms?) - 41 Amps - 9840 Watts
>
> Can I be confidant that 2 stacked SWs will start this baby?
>
> Any experience with similar macerators - or simply educated guesses?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jeff
>
> --
>
>
>
> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ 
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
> text 209 813 0060*
>
>
>
>
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