date:20150701

Re: [RE-wrenches] SolaEdge Outback AC Coupling

2015-07-01 Thread Kirpal Khalsa

Hey Bill...my understanding of the Outback AC coupled solution is that it
does not offer multi stage charging from the grid tied inverter as it does
not have any way to regulate the amount of power coming in  from that
inverter...based on the state of charge of the batteries and at pre set
voltage set points it can operate the remote breaker but it does not have
the ability to taper the amount of in coming power from the grid tied
inverter..   This is why the frequency shift AC coupling such as found with
SMA and others is a nice solution as the amount of incoming power from the
grid tied inverters is regulated allowing for healthy multi stage
charging.
Another thing to consider if using the Outback Ac coupled solution is that
your DC coupling options becomes limited in the same load center
Cheers
Kirpal
On Jun 30, 2015 9:01 AM, "Bill Hoffer"  wrote:

> Kirpal
>
> Actually the Radian system does adjust the battery voltage point that it
> disconnects the grid inverter based on the stage of the charge timers using
> the 3 stage inverter charger set points.  The FNDC will also over ride the
> timers if all fully charged parameters are met.  It has the advantage of
> being able to safely use a back up generator in the system and will
> physically disconnect from grid and the AC coupled inverter before
> connecting the generator.  So there are some advantages over a SMA AC
> coupled system too!
>
> Even though there is no official application notes on AC coupling a Radian
> and Solaredge, I have seen it done with good results.  The nice thing about
> an AC coupled Radian is it should work with any grid tie inverter system
> out there.
>
> Bill
>
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 6:45 AM, Kirpal Khalsa 
> wrote:
>
>> TomI haven't AC coupled Solaredge and Outback, but I have AC Coupled
>> Outback with various other inverter manufacturers and their Radian AC
>> Coupled Load center will work with any AC sourceIt doesn't directly
>> communicate with any other inverter but its remote operated circuit
>> breakers allow it to disconnect AC Power from any other inverter when
>> batteries reach a preset voltageIt is not as elegant as a sunny
>> island/sunnyboy system because it doesn't provide multistage charging buy
>> it is easy to implement and install.You should be able to find all the
>> information on the Outback Radian site.  You would need the GSLC-AC-120/240
>> load center and it comes pre wired with the remote operated circuit breaker
>> which makes it a breeze to install
>>
>>
>> Sunny Regards,
>> Kirpal Khalsa
>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
>> Oregon Solarworks LLC
>> www.oregonsolarworks.com
>> 541-218-0201 m
>> 541-299-0402 o
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 3:40 AM, Tom Lane  wrote:
>>
>>> Has anyone AC Coupled an Outback System with SolarEdge ? I would like to
>>> see a wiring diagram and know what components from Outback you used with
>>> SolarEdge . I have been told variously that SolarEdge does not approve AC
>>> Coupling and that they have approve it , depending on who I get on the
>>> phone . SolarEdge and Outback have no official diagrams or components list
>>> that I can find . I would like some help here as we are in Hurricane season
>>> in Gator Land !
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> ___
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>>
>
>
> --
> William Hoffer
> 161 SE Fourth Ave
> P.O. Box 1823
> White Salmon, WA 98672-1823
> suneng...@gmail.com 
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Solaredge Storedge

2015-07-01 Thread Rebekah Hren

I hear you loud and clear Kirk. On the one hand it is pretty cool to see so
much interest in battery-based systems, on the other hand the level of
misinformation being spread around is frightening and time-consuming to
combat.

There is a Bill McKibbon article in the New Yorker this week where he
unfortunately, loudly and clearly, repeats the Tesla marketing spiel. He
reports from the CEO of Green Mountain Power  -  "Powell was excited by its
low price: three thousand dollars, far below what analysts had predicted,
and low enough that her company could immediately begin installing it for
customers, especially those who wanted backup electricity in case a
snow-storm disabled the grid."

Here's  a link the article:
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/06/29/power-to-the-people

The more I re-read this the angrier I get, and honestly it would be awesome
to send a group co-signed letter to the New Yorker refuting this inanity
and telling Bill M to do his homework. Send me an email off-list if anyone
wants to follow-up.
Rebekah Hren



On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 1:36 PM, Kirk Herander  wrote:

> Here’s the reply I just got back from Solaredge:
>
>
>
> “As this stands ATM Tesla has only announced the product, not finished
> developing it. As Tesla finalizes it the details will become available.
> Please click StorEdge on the bottom right of the web page and sign up for
> the announcements as they come available. Furthermore all of our inverters
> are compatible with this announcement “
>
>
>
> I get a funny vibe about all this hype / vaporware. Announced, but still
> in development. Kind of like the Powerwall itself. The Powerwall is
> supposedly sold out through 2016, with $800 mil in advance orders, and no
> product being shipped. Are there any Powerwalls in operation anywhere in
> the real world? Even in beta test?
>
>
>
> Available tech info on both Powerwall and Storedge is basically zero. Too
> bad nonsense marketing like this causes some potential customers to delay
> their commitment to install a system.
>
>
>
> *Kirk Herander*
>
> *VT Solar, LLC *
>
> *Proven PV provider since 1991*
>
> *www.vermontsolarnow.com *
>
> dba Vermont Solar Engineering
>
> NABCEPTM Inaugural Certificant
>
> VT RE Incentive Program Partner
>
> 802.863.1202
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *b...@midnitesolar.com
> *Sent:* Monday, June 29, 2015 2:56 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Solaredge Storedge
>
>
>
>
> I would think that Solar City would know all about this.
>
> Or, maybe I wouldn't ?
>
> boB
>
>
>
> On 6/29/2015 11:06 AM, Rebekah Hren wrote:
>
> I don't have any info, but the StorEdge diagram is confusing to me when it
> says "energy independence." I can see a simple compatibility between the
> Powerwall DC voltage (300 to 400VDC) and the SolarEdge operating voltage,
> ~350VDC, and I can also see how this setup could be used to maximize
> self-consumption (a grid-zero type system).
>
>
>
> What is confusing is the AC output of the inverter - it is not diagrammed
> as a multimode system, which is what "energy independence" would indicate
> to me. The brochure is not showing an AC loads panel that can be isolated
> from the grid, or any kind of separate transfer switch - which would be
> necessary for a multimode system.
>
> I would be curious to hear what the technical requirements will be to
> install the system as a multimode system, if that is indeed a possibility -
> which it may not be.
>
>
>
>
>
> Rebekah
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 8:57 AM, Kirk Herander  wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Anyone have detailed info on the Storedge battery-compatible system from
> Solaredge? I only found a brochure on their website. Apparently batteries
> can be added to a new or existing Solaredge inverter (the brochure says
> they have partnered with Tesla’s Powerwall) for backup power. They call it
> “DC-coupling”.
>
>
>
> *Kirk Herander*
>
> *VT Solar, LLC *
>
> *Proven PV provider since 1991*
>
> *www.vermontsolarnow.com *
>
> dba Vermont Solar Engineering
>
> NABCEPTM Inaugural Certificant
>
> VT RE Incentive Program Partner
>
> 802.863.1202
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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>
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>
>


-- 
Tel: 336.266.8800
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ 091209-85
NC Licensed Electrical Contractor
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[RE-wrenches] 1000-volt circuits

2015-07-01 Thread Marco Mangelsdorf

Hola amigos y amigas.

 

We're doing our first projects here on the Big Island of Hawaii using
1000-volt rated inverters.

 

The AHJ is informing us that those electricians working on these circuits
require training specific to working on 600+ volt circuits.

 

Anyone know of such training(s)?  As in where to go to find/get such
training?

 

Mahalo,

marco

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Re: [RE-wrenches] SolaEdge Outback AC Coupling

2015-07-01 Thread Glenn Burt

Tom,

I have had a few email exchanges and extensive discussions in person with
this engineer, and the Solar Edge position is that they do not support AC
coupling of their systems with anything.
-
Luc Collin  |  Field Application Engineer - US East
SolarEdge Technologies, Inc.
Kingston, NY
Office: +1 510.458.0145 
Mobile:   +1 845.481.0599 [best number to call]
Email:   luc.col...@solaredge.com
Tech Support: +1 877-360-5292
Tech Support email: ussupp...@solaredge.com


Your mileage may vary.

-Glenn

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Tom Lane
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 6:41 AM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolaEdge Outback AC Coupling

Has anyone AC Coupled an Outback System with SolarEdge ? I would like to see
a wiring diagram and know what components from Outback you used with
SolarEdge . I have been told variously that SolarEdge does not approve AC
Coupling and that they have approve it , depending on who I get on the phone
. SolarEdge and Outback have no official diagrams or components list that I
can find . I would like some help here as we are in Hurricane season in
Gator Land ! 

Sent from my iPad
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SolaEdge Outback AC Coupling

2015-07-01 Thread Bill Hoffer

Kirpal

True there is no current control, but more like a rough Pulse width
modulated control through motorized breaker that does maintain the proper
voltage level for a multistage charging at Bulk Absorb and Float settings.

Bill

On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 5:59 AM, Kirpal Khalsa  wrote:

> Hey Bill...my understanding of the Outback AC coupled solution is that it
> does not offer multi stage charging from the grid tied inverter as it does
> not have any way to regulate the amount of power coming in  from that
> inverter...based on the state of charge of the batteries and at pre set
> voltage set points it can operate the remote breaker but it does not have
> the ability to taper the amount of in coming power from the grid tied
> inverter..   This is why the frequency shift AC coupling such as found with
> SMA and others is a nice solution as the amount of incoming power from the
> grid tied inverters is regulated allowing for healthy multi stage
> charging.
> Another thing to consider if using the Outback Ac coupled solution is that
> your DC coupling options becomes limited in the same load center
> Cheers
> Kirpal
> On Jun 30, 2015 9:01 AM, "Bill Hoffer"  wrote:
>
>> Kirpal
>>
>> Actually the Radian system does adjust the battery voltage point that it
>> disconnects the grid inverter based on the stage of the charge timers using
>> the 3 stage inverter charger set points.  The FNDC will also over ride the
>> timers if all fully charged parameters are met.  It has the advantage of
>> being able to safely use a back up generator in the system and will
>> physically disconnect from grid and the AC coupled inverter before
>> connecting the generator.  So there are some advantages over a SMA AC
>> coupled system too!
>>
>> Even though there is no official application notes on AC coupling a
>> Radian and Solaredge, I have seen it done with good results.  The nice
>> thing about an AC coupled Radian is it should work with any grid tie
>> inverter system out there.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 6:45 AM, Kirpal Khalsa 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> TomI haven't AC coupled Solaredge and Outback, but I have AC Coupled
>>> Outback with various other inverter manufacturers and their Radian AC
>>> Coupled Load center will work with any AC sourceIt doesn't directly
>>> communicate with any other inverter but its remote operated circuit
>>> breakers allow it to disconnect AC Power from any other inverter when
>>> batteries reach a preset voltageIt is not as elegant as a sunny
>>> island/sunnyboy system because it doesn't provide multistage charging buy
>>> it is easy to implement and install.You should be able to find all the
>>> information on the Outback Radian site.  You would need the GSLC-AC-120/240
>>> load center and it comes pre wired with the remote operated circuit breaker
>>> which makes it a breeze to install
>>>
>>>
>>> Sunny Regards,
>>> Kirpal Khalsa
>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
>>> Oregon Solarworks LLC
>>> www.oregonsolarworks.com
>>> 541-218-0201 m
>>> 541-299-0402 o
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 3:40 AM, Tom Lane  wrote:
>>>
 Has anyone AC Coupled an Outback System with SolarEdge ? I would like
 to see a wiring diagram and know what components from Outback you used with
 SolarEdge . I have been told variously that SolarEdge does not approve AC
 Coupling and that they have approve it , depending on who I get on the
 phone . SolarEdge and Outback have no official diagrams or components list
 that I can find . I would like some help here as we are in Hurricane season
 in Gator Land !

 Sent from my iPad
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>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> William Hoffer
>> 161 SE Fourth Ave
>> P.O. Box 1823
>> White Salmon, WA 98672-1823
>> suneng...@gmail.com 
>>
>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 1000-volt circuits

2015-07-01 Thread Jerry Shafer

Marco

Does not sound like you have the correct license, this is as per state of
Hawaii its all in the last line,

everything from wire connectors and boxes may need additional ratings as
well

Jerry

 NABCEP 051112-169

C-63
High voltage electrical contractor
   To place, install, erect, or connect any electrical wires, fixtures,
appliances, apparatus, conduits, raceways, and to do trenching,
backfilling, patching, and surface restoration in connection with the
installation of conduits and lines which transmit, transform, or utilize
electrical energy of more than 600 volts phase to phase

On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 9:01 AM, Marco Mangelsdorf 
wrote:

>  Hola amigos y amigas.
>
>
>
> We’re doing our first projects here on the Big Island of Hawaii using
> 1000-volt rated inverters.
>
>
>
> The AHJ is informing us that those electricians working on these circuits
> require training specific to working on 600+ volt circuits.
>
>
>
> Anyone know of such training(s)?  As in where to go to find/get such
> training?
>
>
>
> Mahalo,
>
> marco
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SolaEdge Outback AC Coupling

Re: [RE-wrenches] Solaredge Storedge

[RE-wrenches] 1000-volt circuits

Re: [RE-wrenches] SolaEdge Outback AC Coupling

Re: [RE-wrenches] SolaEdge Outback AC Coupling

Re: [RE-wrenches] 1000-volt circuits

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