Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase / Inverter failures
Corey, Thanks for sharing this helpful information. I decided to test M190s on my shop in early 2010 before offering a new product. Until about 8 months ago, when we started seeing engineers specify Enphase, I refused to install more of the units. My breakdown in Midwest climes: - M190 - 9/15 = 60% failure - M215 - 1/146 = 1% failure Matt Matthew Partymiller Solar Energy Solutions LLC (859) 312-7456 m...@solar-energy-solutions.com > I would be interested in hearing about other wrenches' observed Enphase > failure rates. > > Since 2010 we've installed 1347 total Enphase units with an overall > failure > rate of 3.27% > > Our breakdown is as follows: > >- M190 - 19/362 = 5.25% failed >- M210 - 21/545 = 3.85% failed >- D380 - 3/101 = 2.97% failed >- M215 - 1/339 = 0.29% failed > > -- > Corey Shalanski > Joule Energy > New Orleans, LA > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase M240
Here's the test report: http://gosolarcalifornia.com/equipment/inverter_tests/summaries/Enphase%20M240_240V.pdf As comparison, here's the SMA micro: http://gosolarcalifornia.com/equipment/inverter_tests/summaries/SMA%20SB240-US-10.pdf I don't understand why the test voltage ranges seem to be shrinking. The M215 was CEC tested at 22, 29, and 36V. The M240: 27, 32, and 38V. For the SMA 240: 29.5, 30.2, and 32. It seems to me that a 2.5V testing window reduces the value of having a weighted efficiency calculation. DKC On 2013/5/9 21:33, Marco Mangelsdorf wrote: As some of you might have heard, Enphase is bringing to market their newest micro: the M240 which is already listed on the California Solar Initiative website. http://www.gosolarcalifornia.ca.gov/equipment/inverters.php Are any of you beta testing this bugger? Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase M240
We still have clients who are patiently waiting for sma's 240. Perhaps their commitment to battery based inverters will assure that it will also be supported into power when the grid is down. And while it should be good when it's out, at one their road shows they were still passing around a mock up, promising a july release. They have a dedicated factory in Denver so until then...Fingers crossed. Bill Dorsett Sunwrights Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone Original message From: Dave Click Date: 05/10/2013 7:51 AM (GMT-06:00) To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase M240 Here's the test report: http://gosolarcalifornia.com/equipment/inverter_tests/summaries/Enphase%20M240_240V.pdf As comparison, here's the SMA micro: http://gosolarcalifornia.com/equipment/inverter_tests/summaries/SMA%20SB240-US-10.pdf I don't understand why the test voltage ranges seem to be shrinking. The M215 was CEC tested at 22, 29, and 36V. The M240: 27, 32, and 38V. For the SMA 240: 29.5, 30.2, and 32. It seems to me that a 2.5V testing window reduces the value of having a weighted efficiency calculation. DKC On 2013/5/9 21:33, Marco Mangelsdorf wrote: > As some of you might have heard, Enphase is bringing to market their > newest micro: the M240 which is already listed on the California Solar > Initiative website. > > http://www.gosolarcalifornia.ca.gov/equipment/inverters.php > > Are any of you beta testing this bugger? > > Thanks, > > marco > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Fronius warranty payment
Larry, Interesting. Might be that whichever tech at Fronius handled your call totally dropped the ball. Might be that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Either way, score one for the Wrenches list! Good deal. Bob-O On May 9, 2013, at 4:15 PM, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote: What a surprise to receive a phone call from Fronius after 5 months and numerous promises to return calls and emails. I'm guessing they got wind of recent complaints on this list. The tech, after making a few more excuses, did say that the payment will now be processed. So, in fairness, I am reporting this. Hmmm?….motivated by "public bitching"? Larry On May 7, 2013, at 1:21 PM, "Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems" wrote: Bob-O, Fronius is not good for reimbursement anymore. While they used to be, Fronius has refused to pay for warranty service. Since December, 2012, they have refused to reimburse me for an inverter swap that THEY told me to make. The display had an intermit ant problem. When I swapped out the display board, it had the same issue. SO THEY shipped out a replacement and asked me to change it out. When they got it back, they claimed that there was no problem found and so far have refused to pay. I made three trips to the site without reimbursement. BTW, this is the third time this inverter has had a problem. Fronius….no more sold by me. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On May 7, 2013, at 12:14 PM, Bob-O Schultze wrote: Jason, I'm one of the many installers who still won't touch a micro yet. It's not so much that there were failures early on, it's how companies like Enphase HANDLED them. My understanding is that you basically got a replacement inverter and got stuffed for your time and travel. That may have changed a bit by now but I'm betting that the reimbursement is still pretty pitiful. It's the same with most central inverter failures during warranty with the exception of Fronius. There are failures to be sure, BUT Fronius' compensation for my time and travel is better than any other manufacturer I've heard about. You won't make much money occasionally replacing their failures, but you won't get hosed either. And that, fellow Wrenches, is why I use Fronius almost exclusively. Any equipment manu who wants my biz needs to make me whole if/when their product bites it during the warranty period. It's bad enough when a product that I recommend to my clients goes belly up. Even though it is the product's fault, that reflects directly back on ME not the manu. If they won't at least compensate me fairly to fix their screw ups, they can just bugger off. Bob-O ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] wrenches] Fronius warranty payment
Larry, I have only replaced a few Fronius inverters, but in those cases, they sent a check without being asked. John Blittersdorf NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer tm Central Vermont Solar & Wind LLC 104 River Street Rutland, VT 05701 802-770-8625 Cell 802-747-0577 Office 802-773-0924 Fax Mark Your Calendars for SolarFest 2013 - July 12, 13 & 14, Tinmouth, VT -Original Message- From: Bob-O Schultze To: RE-wrenches Sent: Fri, May 10, 2013 2:30 pm Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fronius warranty payment Larry, nteresting. Might be that whichever tech at Fronius handled your call totally ropped the ball. Might be that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Either way, core one for the Wrenches list! Good deal. ob-O On May 9, 2013, at 4:15 PM, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote: hat a surprise to receive a phone call from Fronius after 5 months and numerous romises to return calls and emails. I'm guessing they got wind of recent omplaints on this list. The tech, after making a few more excuses, did say that he payment will now be processed. So, in fairness, I am reporting this. mmm?….motivated by "public bitching"? Larry n May 7, 2013, at 1:21 PM, "Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems" la...@starlightsolar.com> wrote: Bob-O, Fronius is not good for reimbursement anymore. While they used to be, Fronius as refused to pay for warranty service. Since December, 2012, they have refused o reimburse me for an inverter swap that THEY told me to make. The display had n intermit ant problem. When I swapped out the display board, it had the same ssue. SO THEY shipped out a replacement and asked me to change it out. When hey got it back, they claimed that there was no problem found and so far have efused to pay. I made three trips to the site without reimbursement. BTW, this is the third time this inverter has had a problem. Fronius….no more old by me. Larry Crutcher tarlight Solar Power Systems n May 7, 2013, at 12:14 PM, Bob-O Schultze rote: Jason, 'm one of the many installers who still won't touch a micro yet. It's not so uch that there were failures early on, it's how companies like Enphase HANDLED hem. My understanding is that you basically got a replacement inverter and got tuffed for your time and travel. That may have changed a bit by now but I'm etting that the reimbursement is still pretty pitiful. t's the same with most central inverter failures during warranty with the xception of Fronius. There are failures to be sure, BUT Fronius' compensation or my time and travel is better than any other manufacturer I've heard about. ou won't make much money occasionally replacing their failures, but you won't et hosed either. And that, fellow Wrenches, is why I use Fronius almost xclusively. ny equipment manu who wants my biz needs to make me whole if/when their product ites it during the warranty period. It's bad enough when a product that I ecommend to my clients goes belly up. Even though it is the product's fault, hat reflects directly back on ME not the manu. If they won't at least ompensate me fairly to fix their screw ups, they can just bugger off. Bob-O __ ist sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: ttp://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: ww.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: ww.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] not sure what's going on here
Hi Wrenches, Wondering if anyone can shed some light on this. I have a customer who self installed 4 x 165w Solarworld panels a few years ago (2008). It's a 12v nom. battery and the panels are wired in parallel. They've been working fine for five years on a full time household using a 3024i Blue Sky controller albeit driving it well beyond it's max PV power recommendation as currently published by Blue Sky. However, now one of the panels has dropped from approx. 30-35v output to 13v. When the failed panel is removed from the string the three remaining panels come back to normal voltage and amp output but after about 15 minutes drop down to around 13v on the Blue Sky display - even though the individual output from each panel when unhooked and tested in full sun show about 35v. After turning the system off and on again a few minutes later the normal voltages return but drop again in about 15 min. The failed panel stays at 13v, does not recover. I'm trying to do a little pro bono diagnostic for the guy who lives back in the bush. I haven't been to the site but asked him to carefully check all the wiring and he says it's fine. So two questions. First- is there a diode in the failed Solarworld (sealed J box) that could have failed and if so is it repairable? Second, any ideas what could explain the intermittent drop in voltage output of the remaining three? Ron Young ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] not sure what's going on here
Hi Ron, The problem you describe is due to the firmware in very early versions of the 3024i. What would happen is once you hit the 30 amp current limiter, the controller will switch the input to act like it is connected to a nominal 12 volt module, lowering the input voltage. Contact Blue Sky for the firmware upgrade to correct this. Sincere warning: Although the Blue Sky product handles SOME overload very well, 660 Watts is severe for this 30 amp controller. You have the potential for over 50 amps of current. This can result in the controller becoming a fiery mass of charcoal. Seen it; don't like it. Make sure nothing is in the vicinity of the front panel when this happens. Larry Crutcher On May 10, 2013, at 4:33 PM, Ron @ earthRight Solar wrote: Hi Wrenches, Wondering if anyone can shed some light on this. I have a customer who self installed 4 x 165w Solarworld panels a few years ago (2008). It's a 12v nom. battery and the panels are wired in parallel. They've been working fine for five years on a full time household using a 3024i Blue Sky controller albeit driving it well beyond it's max PV power recommendation as currently published by Blue Sky. However, now one of the panels has dropped from approx. 30-35v output to 13v. When the failed panel is removed from the string the three remaining panels come back to normal voltage and amp output but after about 15 minutes drop down to around 13v on the Blue Sky display - even though the individual output from each panel when unhooked and tested in full sun show about 35v. After turning the system off and on again a few minutes later the normal voltages return but drop again in about 15 min. The failed panel stays at 13v, does not recover. I'm trying to do a little pro bono diagnostic for the guy who lives back in the bush. I haven't been to the site but asked him to carefully check all the wiring and he says it's fine. So two questions. First- is there a diode in the failed Solarworld (sealed J box) that could have failed and if so is it repairable? Second, any ideas what could explain the intermittent drop in voltage output of the remaining three? Ron Young ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] not sure what's going on here
Ron, It certainly sounds like a failed diode (there are two) to me. Usually they fail open, but it isn't unheard of that they might just avalanche when they see the current of the other PVs. Solarworld would probably replace it under warranty IF you return the dead module to them. How the hell do you do that? I'd tell him to call them and see if they will let him record whatever test procedures they want to see. This assumes, of course, that your DIY guy has a decent DMM, etc. He might get lucky. It's often a good faith gesture to help out a DIY in a situation like this, but if I were you, I'd make it very clear that this is a one-time deal. Explain that you are a pro who gets paid for your hard-won knowledge and expertise. If he is like most DIY-ers, that will be the last you hear from him. A good deal for you- you really don't want him as a BFF who feels like he can ring you up every time he has a question, but continues to buy his stuff from Cheaper-than-you-can-imagine.com Ya know? Bob-O On May 10, 2013, at 4:33 PM, Ron @ earthRight Solar wrote: Hi Wrenches, Wondering if anyone can shed some light on this. I have a customer who self installed 4 x 165w Solarworld panels a few years ago (2008). It's a 12v nom. battery and the panels are wired in parallel. They've been working fine for five years on a full time household using a 3024i Blue Sky controller albeit driving it well beyond it's max PV power recommendation as currently published by Blue Sky. However, now one of the panels has dropped from approx. 30-35v output to 13v. When the failed panel is removed from the string the three remaining panels come back to normal voltage and amp output but after about 15 minutes drop down to around 13v on the Blue Sky display - even though the individual output from each panel when unhooked and tested in full sun show about 35v. After turning the system off and on again a few minutes later the normal voltages return but drop again in about 15 min. The failed panel stays at 13v, does not recover. I'm trying to do a little pro bono diagnostic for the guy who lives back in the bush. I haven't been to the site but asked him to carefully check all the wiring and he says it's fine. So two questions. First- is there a diode in the failed Solarworld (sealed J box) that could have failed and if so is it repairable? Second, any ideas what could explain the intermittent drop in voltage output of the remaining three? Ron Young ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] not sure what's going on here
I'd echo Bob-O on this and also add that when diagnosing others' work over the phone, it often is completely different issues when you get there. You have no idea if for instance he's actually got the modules wired correctly, he may have a loose connection(s) there, the parallels may all be loaded onto one 12 ga wire out, and cooking a module jbox connection, etc. The DIYers never want to hear it, but its always time for a rewire, and a bigger controller too. It's the only way I take these systems on: all or nothing. Once they're suffered for long enough, they'll usually back off, break out the check book, and let you do your job. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 5/10/2013 6:02 PM, Bob-O Schultze wrote: Ron, It certainly sounds like a failed diode (there are two) to me. Usually they fail open, but it isn't unheard of that they might just avalanche when they see the current of the other PVs. Solarworld would probably replace it under warranty IF you return the dead module to them. How the hell do you do that? I'd tell him to call them and see if they will let him record whatever test procedures they want to see. This assumes, of course, that your DIY guy has a decent DMM, etc. He might get lucky. It's often a good faith gesture to help out a DIY in a situation like this, but if I were you, I'd make it very clear that this is a one-time deal. Explain that you are a pro who gets paid for your hard-won knowledge and expertise. If he is like most DIY-ers, that will be the last you hear from him. A good deal for you- you really don't want him as a BFF who feels like he can ring you up every time he has a question, but continues to buy his stuff from Cheaper-than-you-can-imagine.com Ya know? Bob-O On May 10, 2013, at 4:33 PM, Ron @ earthRight Solar wrote: Hi Wrenches, Wondering if anyone can shed some light on this. I have a customer who self installed 4 x 165w Solarworld panels a few years ago (2008). It's a 12v nom. battery and the panels are wired in parallel. They've been working fine for five years on a full time household using a 3024i Blue Sky controller albeit driving it well beyond it's max PV power recommendation as currently published by Blue Sky. However, now one of the panels has dropped from approx. 30-35v output to 13v. When the failed panel is removed from the string the three remaining panels come back to normal voltage and amp output but after about 15 minutes drop down to around 13v on the Blue Sky display - even though the individual output from each panel when unhooked and tested in full sun show about 35v. After turning the system off and on again a few minutes later the normal voltages return but drop again in about 15 min. The failed panel stays at 13v, does not recover. I'm trying to do a little pro bono diagnostic for the guy who lives back in the bush. I haven't been to the site but asked him to carefully check all the wiring and he says it's fine. So two questions. First- is there a diode in the failed Solarworld (sealed J box) that could have failed and if so is it repairable? Second, any ideas what could explain the intermittent drop in voltage output of the remaining three? Ron Young ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
