Re: [RE-wrenches] Finding ground faults

[Dave Click]

Here's the Paul Mync / John Berdner article from SolarPro 2.5:
http://solarprofessional.com/article/?file=SP2_5_pg60_Mync

-David Brearley... er... Click

On 2012/5/22 22:36, Bob Clark wrote:

Wrenches:

Sorry to bring up this situation again, but I could not find a previous
discussion thread that talked about step-by-step procedures for tracking
down ground faults (I believe it was John Berdner who provided the bulk
of the writing in that regard and it related to high voltage strings—not
that 75-85 volts per string is all that low).

We have an Outback FLEXpower Two system with 8, 3-module strings
(Silicon Energy 190W, 25.3Vmp, 7.5 Imp) combined in a Midnite Solar
MNPV12 combiner with breakers. The cables from the array are routed to
two different Wiley 4-string pass-through boxes (located under the two
center strings) and then off of the roof and into the PV combiner.

Up until this week the system has seen several weeks of awesome power
production. Yesterday, the rains came and the GFDI breaker tripped.
Every time it rains, the little green breaker on the GFDI trips off.
That tells me that the ground fault is occurring in a place where at
least one of the conductors on one of the strings (possibly more) is
getting wet and conducting current to ground.

It would seem to me that the most likely place for moisture to cause a
ground fault to occur in this system would be in the pass-through boxes.
This would mean removing the central modules to access the pass-through
boxes.

Any of you who have mounted the Silicon Energy modules know that the
cables are contained in trays along the side of the modules until they
are routed through conduit to the pass-through boxes. So, if there is
current going to ground from any of these cables, it could even be
occurring in any of the 9 trays along side of the modules. I do not like
the idea of tracking down a ground fault in one of these trays as they
are all interconnected.

How best (and safely) to track down where the ground fault is occurring?
Any advice as to the best and safest way to track down the ground
fault(s) would be greatly appreciated.

*Bob Clark*

*/SolarWind Energy Systems, LLC/*



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Kohler 10RY rewire to 120

[dan]

I've gotten away with using a transformer in the past. dbDan BrownFoxfire Energy Corp.Renewable Energy Systems(802)-483-2564www.Foxfire-Energy.comNABCEP #092907-44


 Original Message 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Kohler 10RY rewire to 120
From: mac Lewis 
Date: Tue, May 22, 2012 11:47 pm
To: RE-wrenches 

Hello wrenches,Does anyone have any good instructions or advice on how to rewire an older Kohler 10RY generator to 120VAC from 120/240?  I have heard it is simple, but haven't gotten anything specific yet. Thanks!-- Mac Lewis "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates   ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Kohler 10RY rewire to 120

[Chris Mason]

You should be able to common the stator windings to give you 120V. If you
can show me a wiring diagram I can tell you the wire numbers to connect.

On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 11:47 PM, mac Lewis  wrote:

> Hello wrenches,
>
> Does anyone have any good instructions or advice on how to rewire an older
> Kohler 10RY generator to 120VAC from 120/240?  I have heard it is simple,
> but haven't gotten anything specific yet.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
>
>
>
> Mac Lewis
>
> *
>
> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
> *
>
> ___
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-- 
Chris Mason
President, Comet Systems Ltd
mas...@cometsystems.co
www.cometsystems.co
Cell: 264.235.5670
Int: +1305.767.2094
Skype: netconcepts
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Re: [RE-wrenches] PV into a resistor: please advise

[Mick Abraham]

Hi, Technicians~

Thanks to all for the replies regarding "PV behavior when the load is a
resistor". My client wants to emulate the "Divert" function as with an old
school Bobier NDR-30 charge controller (& also seen with Mr. Katz'
Enermaxer controller from days gone by). The 2012 twist is that we've
got higher solar wattage, higher array voltage and a wish to use normal
240v heat elements...and no NDR-30 style charge controller with a simple
"Divert" connection bolt.

Even once the control & switching is figured out, the other problem is how
to get a good percentage of "available wattage" to convert into heat. My
takeaway from your astute comments is that MPPT type optimization would
still be needed to maximize the power transmission...but the right
MPPT optimizer would differ from anything now in production.

Since the impedance (resistance) of any heat element would be wrong most of
the time, the solar array would be hindered from what it could otherwise
deliver. That's the crux of the problem, methinks.

My client and I will proceed using no intervening electronics between the
array and the heater, under the "some heat is better than no heat" concept.
Since this project has no ability to sell excess solar wattage to the
grid...but with grid power up and running the home most of the time...we
want to reclaim some of the solar array capability as heat.

Thanks again for shifting focus to consider the "PV into a resistor"
issues. We can now return to our regularly scheduled programming.

Jolliness,

Mick Abraham, Proprietor
www.abrahamsolar.com

Voice: 970-731-4675
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar NGO's in Haiti??

[William Dorsett]

Jeff, I greatly appreciate your offer to help us think through putting a system 
together in Haiti. For some time we will be prioritizing the loads not so much 
for the orphanage but for the doc and his wife. They are like so many who buy 
into a project before processing that they are the ones needing to modify their 
lifestyles….one of their priorities at our last meeting was air conditioning. 
So it is going to take a reality check on equipment costs for them to come to 
grips with actually living there. Even then these people might have enough 
money to stick out as the Cadillac in a barrio. As we get closer to a list of 
indispensable loads (even at that you’ll probably have a better idea of what 
can be bought in Haiti), then we’ll know what size battery bank, inverter, etc 
and I would like to get back to you on the hardware and other design 
considerations that might be unique to Haiti. 

 

Bill Dorsett

Sunwrights

Manhattan, KS

 

 

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Lahl
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 7:47 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar NGO's in Haiti??

 

 

Hi Bill,

If you want to contact me offline, we can refer you to a local dealer in Port 
au Prince who ussually has Outback and Rolls products in stock and I believe he 
currently has some Solarworlds as well.  For a one-off project you're probably 
on the right track.  Importing and going through customs in Haiti is definately 
a pain and can be time-consuming.  You may pay more $ locally but will pay less 
in problems, delays and frustration.  (SELF has been working there since before 
the quake)

 

Jeff 

j...@self.org

 

 

Jeff Lahl  |  Project Director

Solar Electric Light Fund  |    www.self.org

p 808-874-5706

f  808-874-5706  



energy is a human right™

 

  Change 
a life. Change the world.

 

From: William Dorsett 
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 10:37 AM
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar NGO's in Haiti??

 

A doctor in town has started an orphanage in Haiti and while it has connection 
with government power for a few hours per day, it of course is not reliable and 
is very expensive. We are still in the stage where we are trying to figure how 
to shed as much load as possible. I have no territoriality in this project and 
will help provide system design and hardware at my cost, however apparently 
tariffs can be huge so we may want to source as much as possible in country.  
Can anyone tell me which solar NGO’s (SELF?) you’d recommend to tell us what 
hardware (deep cycle batteries) is available in country? And if it is a simple 
UPS system, storing from the grid, what grid-connected battery chargers does 
everyone recommend for a fairly large battery bank? Used to be Todd chargers 
and I wondered if they’ve corrected problems or passed on to some other company.

 

Thanks for your suggestions.

 

Bill Dorsett

Sunwrights

1715 Leavenworth

Manhattan, KS

785/539-1956 Home/Office

 

 

 

Bill Dorsett

Sunwrights

1715 Leavenworth

Manhattan, KS

785/539-1956 Home/Office

 


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar NGO's in Haiti??

[William Dorsett]

Daryl, I greatly appreciate your offer to help us think through putting a
system together in Haiti. For some time we will be prioritizing the loads
not so much for the orphanage but for the doc and his wife. They are like so
many who buy into a project before processing that they are the ones needing
to modify their lifestyles..one of their priorities at our last meeting was
air conditioning. So it is going to take a reality check on equipment costs
for them to come to grips with actually living there. Even then these people
might have enough money to stick out as the Cadillac in a barrio. As we get
closer to a list of indispensable loads (even at that you'll probably have a
better idea of what can be bought in Haiti), then we'll know what size
battery bank, inverter, etc and I would like to get back to you on the
hardware and other design considerations that might be unique to Haiti. 

Bill Dorsett
Sunwrights
Manhattan, KS

-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of
penobscotso...@midmaine.com
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 5:23 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar NGO's in Haiti??

Hi Bill,
   I worked in Haiti this last year for a couple of months with an NGO and
installed a donated system. Customs took almost ten months to allow the
solar panels to pass through. They sat in customs through two different
trips down. There is much corruption and many scams. There is a company now
manufacturing panels in Port Au Prince. I do not remember their name and
Googling does not bring anything up.
   The only batteries available (at least last year) that were sourced
within the country were Trojan T-105's , very, very common and easy to
purchase in PAP.
   Why not use the charger built into the inverter to charge the batteries,
even when used as a UPS system? There really isn't a need for an extraneous
charger beyond that. You can source both Xantrex and OutBack inverters from
dealers in PAP and Leogane, where I was working.

Feel free to contact me off list if I can help,

Daryl DeJoy
NABCEP Certified PV installer
Penobscot Solar Design
207 326-0779




> A doctor in town has started an orphanage in Haiti and while it has 
> connection with government power for a few hours per day, it of course 
> is not reliable and is very expensive. We are still in the stage where 
> we are trying to figure how to shed as much load as possible. I have 
> no territoriality in this project and will help provide system design 
> and hardware at my cost, however apparently tariffs can be huge so we 
> may want to source as much as possible in country.  Can anyone tell me 
> which solar NGO's (SELF?) you'd recommend to tell us what hardware 
> (deep cycle
> batteries) is available in country? And if it is a simple UPS system, 
> storing from the grid, what grid-connected battery chargers does 
> everyone recommend for a fairly large battery bank? Used to be Todd 
> chargers and I wondered if they've corrected problems or passed on to some
other company.
>
>
>
> Thanks for your suggestions.
>
>
>
> Bill Dorsett
>
> Sunwrights
>
> 1715 Leavenworth
>
> Manhattan, KS
>
> 785/539-1956 Home/Office
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bill Dorsett
>
> Sunwrights
>
> 1715 Leavenworth
>
> Manhattan, KS
>
> 785/539-1956 Home/Office
>
>
>
> ___
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>


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[RE-wrenches] cogeneration

[Mark Dickson]

Have any of you had any experience or heard of experiences with the
residential cogeneration systems such as the Freewatt?  Sounded like there
was a lot of potential a few years back, but have heard little since.  Any
reason you couldn't tie one into an off-grid Sunny Island system?

 

Best regards,

 

Mark Dickson,

NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer T

Oasis Montana Inc.

Mark Dickson, Certified Solar PV Installer

 

  _  

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William
Dorsett
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 7:31 AM
To: 'Jeff Lahl'; 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar NGO's in Haiti??  

 

Jeff, I greatly appreciate your offer to help us think through putting a
system together in Haiti. For some time we will be prioritizing the loads
not so much for the orphanage but for the doc and his wife. They are like so
many who buy into a project before processing that they are the ones needing
to modify their lifestyles..one of their priorities at our last meeting was
air conditioning. So it is going to take a reality check on equipment costs
for them to come to grips with actually living there. Even then these people
might have enough money to stick out as the Cadillac in a barrio. As we get
closer to a list of indispensable loads (even at that you'll probably have a
better idea of what can be bought in Haiti), then we'll know what size
battery bank, inverter, etc and I would like to get back to you on the
hardware and other design considerations that might be unique to Haiti. 

 

Bill Dorsett

Sunwrights

Manhattan, KS

 

 

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Lahl
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 7:47 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar NGO's in Haiti??

 

 

Hi Bill,

If you want to contact me offline, we can refer you to a local dealer in
Port au Prince who ussually has Outback and Rolls products in stock and I
believe he currently has some Solarworlds as well.  For a one-off project
you're probably on the right track.  Importing and going through customs in
Haiti is definately a pain and can be time-consuming.  You may pay more $
locally but will pay less in problems, delays and frustration.  (SELF has
been working there since before the quake)

 

Jeff 

j...@self.org

 

 

Jeff Lahl  |  Project Director

Solar Electric Light Fund  |    www.self.org

p 808-874-5706

f  808-874-5706  



energy is a human rightT

 

 
Change a life. Change the world.

 

From: William Dorsett 
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 10:37 AM
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar NGO's in Haiti??

 

A doctor in town has started an orphanage in Haiti and while it has
connection with government power for a few hours per day, it of course is
not reliable and is very expensive. We are still in the stage where we are
trying to figure how to shed as much load as possible. I have no
territoriality in this project and will help provide system design and
hardware at my cost, however apparently tariffs can be huge so we may want
to source as much as possible in country.  Can anyone tell me which solar
NGO's (SELF?) you'd recommend to tell us what hardware (deep cycle
batteries) is available in country? And if it is a simple UPS system,
storing from the grid, what grid-connected battery chargers does everyone
recommend for a fairly large battery bank? Used to be Todd chargers and I
wondered if they've corrected problems or passed on to some other company.

 

Thanks for your suggestions.

 

Bill Dorsett

Sunwrights

1715 Leavenworth

Manhattan, KS

785/539-1956 Home/Office

 

 

 

Bill Dorsett

Sunwrights

1715 Leavenworth

Manhattan, KS

785/539-1956 Home/Office

 


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Finding ground faults

[Steve Higgins]

Bob,

Be careful with that GFDI... It's most likely wired on the output of the 
controllers, on the battery side.

This can trip if a ground fault is occurring, or if you are exceeding 80 amps 
of current.   With 8, 3 module strings, an edge of cloud event you could have 
the 80amp portion of that breaker tripping rather than the GFDI.

Steve Higgins
Sales Application Engineering Mgr
Direct 360-618-4313
Outback Power Technologies
5917 195th Street NE Arlington, Washington 98223




From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Bob Clark
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 7:37 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Finding ground faults

Wrenches:

Sorry to bring up this situation again, but I could not find a previous 
discussion thread that talked about step-by-step procedures for tracking down 
ground faults (I believe it was John Berdner who provided the bulk of the 
writing in that regard and it related to high voltage strings-not that 75-85 
volts per string is all that low).

We have an Outback FLEXpower Two system with 8, 3-module strings (Silicon 
Energy 190W, 25.3Vmp, 7.5 Imp) combined in a Midnite Solar MNPV12 combiner with 
breakers.  The cables from the array are routed to two different Wiley 4-string 
pass-through boxes (located under the two center strings) and then off of the 
roof and into the PV combiner.

Up until this week the system has seen several weeks of awesome power 
production.  Yesterday, the rains came and the GFDI breaker tripped.  Every 
time it rains, the little green breaker on the GFDI trips off.  That tells me 
that the ground fault is occurring in a place where at least one of the 
conductors on one of the strings (possibly more) is getting wet and conducting 
current to ground.

It would seem to me that the most likely place for moisture to cause a ground 
fault to occur in this system would be in the pass-through boxes.  This would 
mean removing the central modules to access the pass-through boxes.

Any of you who have mounted the Silicon Energy modules know that the cables are 
contained in trays along the side of the modules until they are routed through 
conduit to the pass-through boxes.  So, if there is current going to ground 
from any of these cables, it could even be occurring in any of the 9 trays 
along side of the modules.  I do not like the idea of tracking down a ground 
fault in one of these trays as they are all interconnected.

How best (and safely) to track down where the ground fault is occurring?  Any 
advice as to the best and safest way to track down the ground fault(s) would be 
greatly appreciated.

Bob Clark
SolarWind Energy Systems, LLC
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Finding ground faults

[Kent Osterberg]

Steve,

It would be appropriate for the GFDI to have 80-amp rated contacts that 
do not have an over-current trip mechanism. IMHO, the fact that they can 
trip on over-current and unnecessarily interrupt the dc system bond is a 
serious design flaw.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar, Inc.
www.bluemountainsolar.com


On 5/23/2012 9:27 AM, Steve Higgins wrote:

Bob,
Be careful with that GFDI... It's most likely wired on the output of 
the controllers, on the battery side.
This can trip if a ground fault is occurring, or if you are exceeding 
80 amps of current.   With 8, 3 module strings, an edge of cloud event 
you could have the 80amp portion of that breaker tripping rather than 
the GFDI.

Steve Higgins
Sales Application Engineering Mgr
Direct 360-618-4313
Outback Power Technologies
5917 195th Street NE Arlington, Washington 98223


*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Bob 
Clark

*Sent:* Tuesday, May 22, 2012 7:37 PM
*To:* re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Finding ground faults

Wrenches:

Sorry to bring up this situation again, but I could not find a 
previous discussion thread that talked about step-by-step procedures 
for tracking down ground faults (I believe it was John Berdner who 
provided the bulk of the writing in that regard and it related to high 
voltage strings---not that 75-85 volts per string is all that low).


We have an Outback FLEXpower Two system with 8, 3-module strings 
(Silicon Energy 190W, 25.3Vmp, 7.5 Imp) combined in a Midnite Solar 
MNPV12 combiner with breakers.  The cables from the array are routed 
to two different Wiley 4-string pass-through boxes (located under the 
two center strings) and then off of the roof and into the PV combiner.


Up until this week the system has seen several weeks of awesome power 
production.  Yesterday, the rains came and the GFDI breaker tripped.  
Every time it rains, the little green breaker on the GFDI trips off. 
 That tells me that the ground fault is occurring in a place where at 
least one of the conductors on one of the strings (possibly more) is 
getting wet and conducting current to ground.


It would seem to me that the most likely place for moisture to cause a 
ground fault to occur in this system would be in the pass-through 
boxes.  This would mean removing the central modules to access the 
pass-through boxes.


Any of you who have mounted the Silicon Energy modules know that the 
cables are contained in trays along the side of the modules until they 
are routed through conduit to the pass-through boxes.  So, if there is 
current going to ground from any of these cables, it could even be 
occurring in any of the 9 trays along side of the modules.  I do not 
like the idea of tracking down a ground fault in one of these trays as 
they are all interconnected.


How best (and safely) to track down where the ground fault is 
occurring?  Any advice as to the best and safest way to track down the 
ground fault(s) would be greatly appreciated.


*Bob Clark*

*/SolarWind Energy Systems, LLC/*



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar NGO's in Haiti??

[Lee Bristol]

Bill,

I think that you should seriously think of a 24V DC system with high
efficiency LED lights, DC fans, DC refrigerators, DC computers and Internet
access devices, and DC for the other appliances like TVs and radios.  Start
by minimizing the power requirements.  Air conditioning is a huge load and
not worth it from my point of view, open windows and fans work pretty
well.  It is Haiti after all.  You can get a battery charger if need be and
use the intermittent grid only in an emergency.

I put a small 500 watt AC system on a school in Carcasse, Haiti a couple of
years ago and recently got a report that it wasn't working.  Upon visiting,
I found a donation of 12 ten year old computers at an average of 100 watts
each so of course my system "wasn't working", the loads were too great.  I
subsequently realized that there are 20 watt DC computers, 9 watt LED
lights to replace 25 watt CFLs, etc and so my solar PV and battery
requirements can be substantially reduced by choosing the electrical
appliances appropriately.

I wholeheartedly agree with buying modules, charge controllers, and racking
locally and getting local electricians to help you out too.  We are trying
to stimulate a new PV industry in Haiti and need all the work we can get.

Note that the DC system is much simpler than AC and connecting to the
Haitian grid will be a problem.  Take advantage of Occam's Razor and the
KISS principle and consider DC.

Lee


On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 9:34 AM, William Dorsett wrote:

> Daryl, I greatly appreciate your offer to help us think through putting a
> system together in Haiti. For some time we will be prioritizing the loads
> not so much for the orphanage but for the doc and his wife. They are like
> so
> many who buy into a project before processing that they are the ones
> needing
> to modify their lifestyles..one of their priorities at our last meeting was
> air conditioning. So it is going to take a reality check on equipment costs
> for them to come to grips with actually living there. Even then these
> people
> might have enough money to stick out as the Cadillac in a barrio. As we get
> closer to a list of indispensable loads (even at that you'll probably have
> a
> better idea of what can be bought in Haiti), then we'll know what size
> battery bank, inverter, etc and I would like to get back to you on the
> hardware and other design considerations that might be unique to Haiti.
>
> Bill Dorsett
> Sunwrights
> Manhattan, KS
>
> -Original Message-
> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of
> penobscotso...@midmaine.com
> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 5:23 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar NGO's in Haiti??
>
> Hi Bill,
>   I worked in Haiti this last year for a couple of months with an NGO and
> installed a donated system. Customs took almost ten months to allow the
> solar panels to pass through. They sat in customs through two different
> trips down. There is much corruption and many scams. There is a company now
> manufacturing panels in Port Au Prince. I do not remember their name and
> Googling does not bring anything up.
>   The only batteries available (at least last year) that were sourced
> within the country were Trojan T-105's , very, very common and easy to
> purchase in PAP.
>   Why not use the charger built into the inverter to charge the batteries,
> even when used as a UPS system? There really isn't a need for an extraneous
> charger beyond that. You can source both Xantrex and OutBack inverters from
> dealers in PAP and Leogane, where I was working.
>
> Feel free to contact me off list if I can help,
>
> Daryl DeJoy
> NABCEP Certified PV installer
> Penobscot Solar Design
> 207 326-0779
>
>
>
>
> > A doctor in town has started an orphanage in Haiti and while it has
> > connection with government power for a few hours per day, it of course
> > is not reliable and is very expensive. We are still in the stage where
> > we are trying to figure how to shed as much load as possible. I have
> > no territoriality in this project and will help provide system design
> > and hardware at my cost, however apparently tariffs can be huge so we
> > may want to source as much as possible in country.  Can anyone tell me
> > which solar NGO's (SELF?) you'd recommend to tell us what hardware
> > (deep cycle
> > batteries) is available in country? And if it is a simple UPS system,
> > storing from the grid, what grid-connected battery chargers does
> > everyone recommend for a fairly large battery bank? Used to be Todd
> > chargers and I wondered if they've corrected problems or passed on to
> some
> other company.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for your suggestions.
> >
> >
> >
> > Bill Dorsett
> >
> > Sunwrights
> >
> > 1715 Leavenworth
> >
> > Manhattan, KS
> >
> > 785/539-1956 Home/Office
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bill Dorsett
> >
> > Sunwrights
> >
> > 1715 Leavenworth
> >
> > Manhattan, KS
> >
> > 785/53

Re: [RE-wrenches] Finding ground faults

[William Miller]

Steve:

IMHO, a brilliant suggestion.

William Miller


At 11:19 AM 5/23/2012, you wrote:

Steve,

It would be appropriate for the GFDI to have 80-amp rated contacts that do 
not have an over-current trip mechanism. IMHO, the fact that they can trip 
on over-current and unnecessarily interrupt the dc system bond is a 
serious design flaw.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar, Inc.
www.bluemountainsolar.com
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[RE-wrenches] Voltage Datalogger

[Jason Szumlanski]

I have a customer interested in monitoring a 48V battery bank's voltage via
the Internet. This is a DC only system. He just needs basic real-time and
historical voltage recording without any bells and whistles. Any cost
effective ideas?

Jason Szumlanski
Fafco Solar
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Finding ground faults

[Steve Higgins]

>From what I understand, future controllers from Outback Power will incorporate 
>the Ground Fault detection into the controller.


Steve Higgins
Sales Application Engineering Mgr
Direct 360-618-4313
Outback Power Technologies
5917 195th Street NE Arlington, Washington 98223




From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Miller
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 11:22 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Finding ground faults

Steve:

IMHO, a brilliant suggestion.

William Miller


At 11:19 AM 5/23/2012, you wrote:
Steve,

It would be appropriate for the GFDI to have 80-amp rated contacts that do not 
have an over-current trip mechanism. IMHO, the fact that they can trip on 
over-current and unnecessarily interrupt the dc system bond is a serious design 
flaw.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar, Inc.
www.bluemountainsolar.com

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Voltage Datalogger

[Dan Fink]

Hi Jason;

This is a big interest of mine also, due to many extremely remote sites
with PV installations. Though am more int he market for a deployable
voltage monitor where the client can send me data upon their arrival at
camp each spring, so i can see what the systems were doing all winter with
nobody around but bears, wolves and wolverines.

There are numerous ways to go about this; here would be my considerations:

~ Is there an integrated system monitor in place already? As in Outback
FlexnetDC, and the Xantrex and Magnum equivilants? If so, much of your work
has been done for you. should be quite easy.
~ Is there an external monitor like a trimetric or pentametric? The
trimetric would require a computer on all the time (but that could be a
tiny linux thing with no display, just and SD card etc). The pentametric
can be ordered with an LAN interface so that only the internet and LAN/wifi
need be turned on, not a computer;
~ You can talk to Jim Jarvis at APRS World. They have tons of
logging/monitoring options they can build for you with integrated
LAN/internet monitoring etc.

For this year, i am going with some USB pen drive voltage monitors i can
deploy on the last day of human occupation at these camps (november 1) and
retrieve data when people arrive June 1. The problem is zero sunlight for 2
months of winter (high latitude, in a valley in the Skeena Mountain Range)
However I think my future may be with Arduino. Not very hard to tell the
arduino computer:



-- 
Dan Fink,
Executive Director;
Otherpower
Buckville Energy Consulting
Buckville Publications LLC
NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers
970.672.4342 (voicemail)

On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:

> I have a customer interested in monitoring a 48V battery bank's voltage
> via the Internet. This is a DC only system. He just needs basic real-time
> and historical voltage recording without any bells and whistles. Any cost
> effective ideas?
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Fafco Solar
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Voltage Datalogger

[Dan Fink]

Ooops, sorry all. small keyboard and hit send too early..

Program Arduino to say:

If time since last data transmission > 1 week
AND
battery voltage > 12.3 volts
TURN ON satellite internet modem;
PING (my server IP) UNTIL RESPONSE=1
UPLOAD with WPUT (data acquired since last upload)
TURN OFF satellite internet modem;
and so on.

DAN FINK



>
> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>
>> I have a customer interested in monitoring a 48V battery bank's voltage
>> via the Internet. This is a DC only system. He just needs basic real-time
>> and historical voltage recording without any bells and whistles. Any cost
>> effective ideas?
>>
>> Jason Szumlanski
>> Fafco Solar
>>
>
>
>
>
>



-- 
Dan Fink,
Executive Director;
Otherpower
Buckville Energy Consulting
Buckville Publications LLC
NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers
970.672.4342 (voicemail)
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Voltage Datalogger

[William Miller]

Jason:

E-gauge was working on this.  The interface is great.  If they have added 
the DC feature, you are set.


William



At 12:06 PM 5/23/2012, you wrote:
I have a customer interested in monitoring a 48V battery bank's voltage 
via the Internet. This is a DC only system. He just needs basic real-time 
and historical voltage recording without any bells and whistles. Any cost 
effective ideas?


Jason Szumlanski
Fafco Solar
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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.455 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/5016 - Release Date: 05/22/12 
18:34:00


Miller Solar
Voice :805-438-5600
email: will...@millersolar.com
http://millersolar.com
License No. C-10-773985

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Re: [RE-wrenches] cogeneration

[Darryl Thayer]

Hi Mark, I have had a brush with a Honda CHP Combined Heat and Power unit, a 1 kW unit I think, and with a Marathon "ecopower" a 4.9? KW,  I was not the installer, These were a while back,  4 and 2 years I think.  One house the customer was keeping maticulus records and had a value calculation.  (honda unit)  The house had multiple systems,  and it turned out to be a significant challange to figure out what should be running.  >From memory both put out about 2x kW the heat as they did electricity.  The marathon put out quite a bit of heat, and could be used as a furnace in a highly insulated house.  Both units had an inverter output and coupled well with a battery based inverter system.  (I connected through an Outback situation.  I did not connect through AC coupling to
 a DGI inverter.  The CHP acted as the grid and the outback acted Bimodal, nothing special no problems.  I may be able to find the system diagrams, but they are simple.  BTW I am preparing a CHP - PV proposal for off grid this week,  DTFrom: Mark Dickson  To: 'RE-wrenches'   Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 10:59 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] cogeneration   



 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 









Have any of you had any experience or
heard of experiences with the residential cogeneration systems such as the
Freewatt?  Sounded like there was a lot of potential a few years back, but
have heard little since.  Any reason you couldn’t tie one into an
off-grid Sunny
 Island system? 

   



Best regards, 

   

Mark Dickson, 

NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer
™ 

Oasis Montana
Inc. 

Mark Dickson, Certified Solar PV Installer 

   











From:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Dorsett
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 7:31
AM
To: 'Jeff Lahl'; '
 RE-wrenches '
Subject: Re: [
 RE-wrenches ] Solar NGO's in
 Haiti ??   



   

Jeff, I greatly appreciate your offer to help us think through putting
a system together in Haiti .
For some time we will be prioritizing the loads not so much for the orphanage
but for the doc and his wife. They are like so many who buy into a project before
processing that they are the ones needing to modify their lifestyles….one
of their priorities at our last meeting was air conditioning. So it is going to
take a reality check on equipment costs for them to come to grips with actually
living there. Even then these people might have enough money to stick out as
the Cadillac in a barrio. As we get closer to a list of indispensable loads
(even at that you’ll probably have a better idea of what can be bought in
 Haiti ), then we’ll
know what size battery bank, inverter, etc and I would like to get back to you
on the hardware and other design considerations that might be unique to
 Haiti .  

   

Bill Dorsett 

Sunwrights 

Manhattan ,
 KS 

   

   





From:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]
On Behalf Of Jeff Lahl
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 7:47 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [
 RE-wrenches ] Solar NGO's in
 Haiti ?? 





   





   





Hi Bill, 





If you want
to contact me offline, we can refer you to a local dealer in Port au Prince who
ussually has Outback and Rolls products in stock and I believe he
currently has some Solarworlds as well.  For a one-off project you're
probably on the right track.  Importing and going through customs in
 Haiti is
definately a pain and can be time-consuming.  You may pay more $ locally
but will pay less in problems, delays and frustration.  (SELF has
been working there since before the quake) 





  





Jeff  





j...@self.org 





  





  







Jeff
Lahl  |  Project Director 





Solar
Electric Light Fund  |  www.self.org 





p 808-874-5706 





f 
808-874-5706   





 





energy
is a human right™ 





  





Change a life. Change
the world. 







   









From: William Dorsett 
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 10:37
AM
Subject: [ RE-wrenches ]
Solar NGO's in Haiti ?? 



   









A doctor in
town has started an orphanage in
 Haiti and while it has connection
with government power for a few hours per day, it of course is not reliable and
is very expensive. We are still in the stage where we are trying to figure how
to shed as much load as possible. I have no territoriality in this project and
will help provide system design and hardware at my cost, however apparently
tariffs can be huge so we may want to source as much as possible in country.
 Can anyone tell me which solar NGO’s (SELF?) you’d recommend
to tell us what hardware (deep cycle batteries) is available in country? And if
it is a simple UPS system, storing from the grid, what grid-connected battery
chargers does everyone recommend for a fairly large battery bank? Used to be
Todd chargers and I wondered if they’ve corrected problems or passed on
to som

Re: [RE-wrenches] Finding ground faults

[Darryl Thayer]

Bob I had a tough find one time, when it rained I would have GF when it would 
dry out no GF 
I turned off main DC disconnect, I turned off each circuit breakers for the 
strings, I opened the grounded conductor of the strings, I connected my Megger 
at 500 volts I think It might have been maybe 1000 volts, after the fault 
cleared, the megger found one string that was bad and I located the problem in 
a J box 
 


 From: Steve Higgins 
To: RE-wrenches  
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Finding ground faults
  

 
Bob,  
  
Be careful with that GFDI... It's most likely wired on the output of the 
controllers, on the battery side.   
  
This can trip if a ground fault is occurring, or if you are exceeding 80 amps 
of current.   With 8, 3 module strings, an edge of cloud event you could have 
the 80amp portion of that breaker tripping rather than the GFDI.  
  
Steve Higgins 
Sales Application Engineering Mgr 
Direct 360-618-4313 
Outback Power Technologies  
5917 195th Street NE Arlington, Washington 98223 
   




 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Bob Clark
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 7:37 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Finding ground faults

  
Wrenches: 
  
Sorry to bring up this situation again, but I could not find a previous 
discussion thread that talked about step-by-step procedures for tracking down 
ground faults (I believe it was John Berdner who provided the bulk of the 
writing in that regard and it related to high voltage strings—not that 75-85 
volts per string is all that low). 
  
We have an Outback FLEXpower Two system with 8, 3-module strings (Silicon 
Energy 190W, 25.3Vmp, 7.5 Imp) combined in a Midnite Solar MNPV12 combiner with 
breakers.  The cables from the array are routed to two different Wiley 4-string 
pass-through boxes (located under the two center strings) and then off of the 
roof and into the PV combiner. 
  
Up until this week the system has seen several weeks of awesome power 
production.  Yesterday, the rains came and the GFDI breaker tripped.  Every 
time it rains, the little green breaker on the GFDI trips off.  That tells me 
that the ground fault is occurring in a place where at least one of the 
conductors on one of the strings (possibly more) is getting wet and conducting 
current to ground. 
  
It would seem to me that the most likely place for moisture to cause a ground 
fault to occur in this system would be in the pass-through boxes.  This would 
mean removing the central modules to access the pass-through boxes. 
  
Any of you who have mounted the Silicon Energy modules know that the cables are 
contained in trays along the side of the modules until they are routed through 
conduit to the pass-through boxes.  So, if there is current going to ground 
from any of these cables, it could even be occurring in any of the 9 trays 
along side of the modules.  I do not like the idea of tracking down a ground 
fault in one of these trays as they are all interconnected. 
  
How best (and safely) to track down where the ground fault is occurring?  Any 
advice as to the best and safest way to track down the ground fault(s) would be 
greatly appreciated. 
  
Bob Clark 
SolarWind Energy Systems, LLC   
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Finding ground faults

[Darryl Thayer]

I sure do not like the way the X brand installed their charge controller, Also 
the code says that all strings must open if one string is faulted.  your 
breaker does this up to 4 strings.  
DT 
 


 From: Steve Higgins 
To: RE-wrenches  
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Finding ground faults
  

 
  
From what I understand, future controllers from Outback Power will incorporate 
the Ground Fault detection into the controller.  
  
  
Steve Higgins 
Sales Application Engineering Mgr 
Direct 360-618-4313 
Outback Power Technologies  
5917 195th Street NE Arlington, Washington 98223 
   




 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Miller
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 11:22 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Finding ground faults

 
Steve:

IMHO, a brilliant suggestion.

William Miller


At 11:19 AM 5/23/2012, you wrote:

Steve,
>
>It would be appropriate for the GFDI to have 80-amp rated contacts that do not 
>have an over-current trip mechanism. IMHO, the fact that they can trip on 
>over-current and unnecessarily interrupt the dc system bond is a serious 
>design flaw.
>
>
>Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar, Inc. www.bluemountainsolar.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Finding ground faults

[b...@midnitesolar.com]

On 5/23/2012 4:44 PM, Darryl Thayer wrote:
I sure do not like the way the X brand installed their charge 
controller, Also the code says that all strings must open if one 
string is faulted.  your breaker does this up to 4 strings.

DT




I think that this is the pertinent part of the code regarding this...

In part...

31.1 Inverters or charge controllers with direct photovoltaic inputs 
from a grounded photovoltaic array or


arrays shall be provided with a ground-fault detector/interrupter 
(GFDI). The GFDI shall be capable of


detecting a ground fault, providing an indication of the fault, 
interrupting the flow of fault current, and either


isolating the faulted array section or disabling the inverter to cease 
the export of power.




This may very well change in the 2014 NEC from what I understand.

boB




*From:* Steve Higgins 
*To:* RE-wrenches 
*Sent:* Wednesday, May 23, 2012 2:18 PM
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Finding ground faults

From what I understand, future controllers from Outback Power will 
incorporate the Ground Fault detection into the controller.

Steve Higgins
Sales Application Engineering Mgr
Direct 360-618-4313
Outback Power Technologies
5917 195th Street NE Arlington, Washington 98223

*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of 
*William Miller

*Sent:* Wednesday, May 23, 2012 11:22 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Finding ground faults

Steve:

IMHO, a brilliant suggestion.

William Miller


At 11:19 AM 5/23/2012, you wrote:

Steve,

It would be appropriate for the GFDI to have 80-amp rated contacts 
that do not have an over-current trip mechanism. IMHO, the fact that 
they can trip on over-current and unnecessarily interrupt the dc 
system bond is a serious design flaw.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar, Inc.
www.bluemountainsolar.com  


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Finding ground faults

[b...@midnitesolar.com]

Ooops !!  Sorry about that one !!That was from 1741...

Still applicable of course but NOT   NEC.

That was applicable from 2007 though.

boB




On 5/23/2012 6:34 PM, b...@midnitesolar.com wrote:

On 5/23/2012 4:44 PM, Darryl Thayer wrote:
I sure do not like the way the X brand installed their charge 
controller, Also the code says that all strings must open if one 
string is faulted.  your breaker does this up to 4 strings.

DT




I think that this is the pertinent part of the code regarding this...

In part...

31.1 Inverters or charge controllers with direct photovoltaic inputs 
from a grounded photovoltaic array or


arrays shall be provided with a ground-fault detector/interrupter 
(GFDI). The GFDI shall be capable of


detecting a ground fault, providing an indication of the fault, 
interrupting the flow of fault current, and either


isolating the faulted array section or disabling the inverter to cease 
the export of power.




This may very well change in the 2014 NEC from what I understand.

boB




*From:* Steve Higgins 
*To:* RE-wrenches 
*Sent:* Wednesday, May 23, 2012 2:18 PM
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Finding ground faults

From what I understand, future controllers from Outback Power will 
incorporate the Ground Fault detection into the controller.

Steve Higgins
Sales Application Engineering Mgr
Direct 360-618-4313
Outback Power Technologies
5917 195th Street NE Arlington, Washington 98223

*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of 
*William Miller

*Sent:* Wednesday, May 23, 2012 11:22 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Finding ground faults

Steve:

IMHO, a brilliant suggestion.

William Miller


At 11:19 AM 5/23/2012, you wrote:

Steve,

It would be appropriate for the GFDI to have 80-amp rated contacts 
that do not have an over-current trip mechanism. IMHO, the fact that 
they can trip on over-current and unnecessarily interrupt the dc 
system bond is a serious design flaw.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar, Inc.
www.bluemountainsolar.com  




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[RE-wrenches] Number of Controllers

[Colin Vogt]

Wrenches,
What considerations are there for the number of charge controllers  
that can be in a stand-alone system with a single battery bank?  If  
one uses MPPT controllers, then  one would want (I think) a different  
controller for different module orientations.  That is, if one had a  
couple modules at one azimuth/tilt angle you would have a controller  
for that, and another controller for a module at a different azimuth/ 
tilt angle.  Also, I can see having a controller to turn on yard  
lights (Morningstar makes one, although it is not an MPPT type and is  
of limited capacity).  Could also one have a controller for diversion  
loads?  And also a controller for a wind generator?  So I can see  
where a stand-alone system might have 4 or maybe even more  
controllers, all tied into the same battery bank.  Are there any  
considerations for a system like this?  For instance, do the setpoints  
for all controllers need to match?

Colin Vogt
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Number of Controllers

[Jay Peltz]

Hi Colin. 

No limits beyond battery C rate limits. 

I've got 3 CC and 4 dump loads (3 AC and 1 DC). 

Biggest issue is getting them synced to the same voltage. 

Set points don't need to match. 

Jay

Peltz power. 





Sent from my iPhone

On May 23, 2012, at 6:47 PM, Colin Vogt  wrote:

> Wrenches,
> What considerations are there for the number of charge controllers that can 
> be in a stand-alone system with a single battery bank?  If one uses MPPT 
> controllers, then  one would want (I think) a different controller for 
> different module orientations.  That is, if one had a couple modules at one 
> azimuth/tilt angle you would have a controller for that, and another 
> controller for a module at a different azimuth/tilt angle.  Also, I can see 
> having a controller to turn on yard lights (Morningstar makes one, although 
> it is not an MPPT type and is of limited capacity).  Could also one have a 
> controller for diversion loads?  And also a controller for a wind generator?  
> So I can see where a stand-alone system might have 4 or maybe even more 
> controllers, all tied into the same battery bank.  Are there any 
> considerations for a system like this?  For instance, do the setpoints for 
> all controllers need to match?
> Colin Vogt
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[RE-wrenches] Integrated GFDI (branch from Finding Ground Faults)

[Kent Osterberg]

Steve,

A PV system GFDI integrated into the charge controller certainly 
simplifies charge controller installations. Unfortunately every charge 
controller that has done that has failed to correct a serious flaw in 
the operation of the GFDI: under a ground fault circumstance, the 
energized PV negative wire (and all those wires that are still connected 
to it) remains a serious safety hazard. I can tolerate that hazard in 
the PV system wiring; the PV modules are energized by sunlight so there 
will be energized wires. But energized wiring running past the GFDI 
should not be tolerated. NEC 690.5(C) requires a label that is visible 
from the batteries warning that, if a ground fault is indicate, normally 
grounded wires may be energized. That's a good warning for someone that 
might be doing maintenance on the batteries. Trouble is the dc wiring to 
the inverters, lights, refrigerator, or anything else may also be 
energized. It's a dangerous circumstance that isn't necessary and 
shouldn't be allowed. If the external GDFI device were to simply open 
both PV+ and PV- conductors, there would be no hazard except between the 
GFDI and the PV array. The NEC, as now written, even allows both 
conductors to be opened. It's an easy fix, at least with the external 
GFDI it is an easy fix, to a design flaw that has the potential to kill 
someone. Outback shouldn't simply put a GFDI in the charge controller, 
they should design one that is safe too.


It is safe to return to the list now. The rant is over.

Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar, Inc.
www.bluemountainsolar.com


On 5/23/2012 12:18 PM, Steve Higgins wrote:
From what I understand, future controllers from Outback Power will 
incorporate the Ground Fault detection into the controller.

Steve Higgins
Sales Application Engineering Mgr
Direct 360-618-4313
Outback Power Technologies
5917 195th Street NE Arlington, Washington 98223


*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of 
*William Miller

*Sent:* Wednesday, May 23, 2012 11:22 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Finding ground faults

Steve:

IMHO, a brilliant suggestion.

William Miller


At 11:19 AM 5/23/2012, you wrote:

Steve,

It would be appropriate for the GFDI to have 80-amp rated contacts 
that do not have an over-current trip mechanism. IMHO, the fact that 
they can trip on over-current and unnecessarily interrupt the dc 
system bond is a serious design flaw.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar, Inc.
www.bluemountainsolar.com  



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar NGO's in Haiti??

[Mike Sullivan]

Hi Bill,

I've worked as a contractor with SELF on half a dozen PV installations in 
central Haiti. SELF has a very good relationship with solar suppliers and solar 
technicians/electricians based out of PaP. Email me off-list and I will give 
you the contact info for the SELF project manager living in Haiti. I believe 
you can source Trojan T-105 and L-16 and maybe even Surrette S-460's from one 
of the solar vendors in PaP. It's a good option when faced with tariffs, delays 
and "lost" items going through Haitian customs, and I'm a big fan of supporting 
the local industry to strengthen their own solar infrastructure.

I'm currently working on a project in Tibet, but will be happy to help you with 
info whenever I have email access.

Cheers,

Mike Sullivan
Solar Energy International
zar...@yahoo.com

> 
>> 
>>> A doctor in town has started an orphanage in Haiti and while it has
>>> connection with government power for a few hours per day, it of course
>>> is not reliable and is very expensive. We are still in the stage where
>>> we are trying to figure how to shed as much load as possible. I have
>>> no territoriality in this project and will help provide system design
>>> and hardware at my cost, however apparently tariffs can be huge so we
>>> may want to source as much as possible in country.  Can anyone tell me
>>> which solar NGO's (SELF?) you'd recommend to tell us what hardware
>>> (deep cycle
>>> batteries) is available in country? And if it is a simple UPS system,
>>> storing from the grid, what grid-connected battery chargers does
>>> everyone recommend for a fairly large battery bank? Used to be Todd
>>> chargers and I wondered if they've corrected problems or passed on to
>> some
>> other company.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks for your suggestions.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Bill Dorsett
>>> 
>>> Sunwrights
>>> 
>>> 1715 Leavenworth
>>> 
>>> Manhattan, KS
>>> 
>>> 785/539-1956 Home/Office
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Number of Controllers

[Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems]

Colin,

The IPN Network charge controllers from Blue Sky Energy can be configured as 
Master & Slave so ALL controllers work together. With up to 8 controllers on 
the network, you can have multiple arrays and orintations. Their new Duo model 
will function as hydro or wind diversion control. AND, each controller has a 
fully programmable lighting control! Sounds like this is the controller to meet 
all your requests. We have sold hundreds and I highly recommend them.

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems
(928) 342-9103
www.starlightsolar.com

Retail Store& Warehouse
2998 Shari Ave.
Yuma, Az 85365

USPS Postal Mail Only
11881 S Fortuna Road, #210
Yuma, AZ 85367





On May 23, 2012, at 6:47 PM, Colin Vogt wrote:

Wrenches,
What considerations are there for the number of charge controllers that can be 
in a stand-alone system with a single battery bank?  If one uses MPPT 
controllers, then  one would want (I think) a different controller for 
different module orientations.  That is, if one had a couple modules at one 
azimuth/tilt angle you would have a controller for that, and another controller 
for a module at a different azimuth/tilt angle.  Also, I can see having a 
controller to turn on yard lights (Morningstar makes one, although it is not an 
MPPT type and is of limited capacity).  Could also one have a controller for 
diversion loads?  And also a controller for a wind generator?  So I can see 
where a stand-alone system might have 4 or maybe even more controllers, all 
tied into the same battery bank.  Are there any considerations for a system 
like this?  For instance, do the setpoints for all controllers need to match?
Colin Vogt
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Finding ground faults

[Mike Sullivan]

Hi Bob,

Sorry if I am duplicating any of the replies you've already received regarding 
the possible ground fault. I think the best way to determine whether GFDI is 
tripping on 1 A ground current or 80 A circuit current is to use a sensitive DC 
clamp-on to check the current on your system ground under normal operation. If 
it is more than about 10 mA when things are dry, you probably do have a ground 
fault issue to resolve. Assuming that's true, I recommend that you buy, borrow 
or rent a megohm tester (like those by Megger) to check out your circuit wiring 
resistance. Once you fully isolate your strings at the combiner box, you can 
quickly zero in on where the fault lies -- just divide and conquer. You may 
need to wet down the array and wiring to make the fault more detectable. Often, 
the fault will be in wiring that was damaged when pulled from a splice or 
combiner box into conduit, esp. if there's no bushing on the conduit terminal 
adapter.

A word of warning -- if you have more than one ground fault, some parts of your 
equipment grounding system will be carrying current, which may be sizable. Use 
precautions when disconnecting any wiring or grounds. A clamp-on is really 
useful here...

Hope that helps!

Cheers,

Mike Sullivan



Wrenches: 
? 
Sorry to bring up this situation again, but I could not find a previous 
discussion thread that talked about step-by-step procedures for tracking down 
ground faults (I believe it was John Berdner who provided the bulk of the 
writing in that regard and it related to high voltage strings?not that 75-85 
volts per string is all that low). 
? 
We have an Outback FLEXpower Two system with 8, 3-module strings (Silicon 
Energy 190W, 25.3Vmp, 7.5 Imp) combined in a Midnite Solar MNPV12 combiner with 
breakers.? The cables from the array are routed to two different Wiley 4-string 
pass-through boxes (located under the two center strings) and then off of the 
roof and into the PV combiner. 
? 
Up until this week the system has seen several weeks of awesome power 
production.? Yesterday, the rains came and the GFDI breaker tripped.? Every 
time it rains, the little green breaker on the GFDI trips off. ?That tells me 
that the ground fault is occurring in a place where at least one of the 
conductors on one of the strings (possibly more) is getting wet and conducting 
current to ground. 
? 
It would seem to me that the most likely place for moisture to cause a ground 
fault to occur in this system would be in the pass-through boxes.? This would 
mean removing the central modules to access the pass-through boxes. 
? 
Any of you who have mounted the Silicon Energy modules know that the cables are 
contained in trays along the side of the modules until they are routed through 
conduit to the pass-through boxes.? So, if there is current going to ground 
from any of these cables, it could even be occurring in any of the 9 trays 
along side of the modules.? I do not like the idea of tracking down a ground 
fault in one of these trays as they are all interconnected. 
? 
How best (and safely) to track down where the ground fault is occurring?? Any 
advice as to the best and safest way to track down the ground fault(s) would be 
greatly appreciated. 
? 
Bob Clark 
SolarWind Energy Systems, LLC   


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Number of Controllers

[William Miller]

Larry:

Thank  you for the update on this intriguing product.  It would be helpful 
if the charger network could talk to a Mate or an SCP, but I doubt that 
will ever happen.


Here's an idea:  A standard CAT5 protocol for exchanging data/settings in 
RE equipment.  Utopia or Chaos?


William

At 10:42 PM 5/23/2012, Larry Crutcher, wrote:

Colin,

The IPN Network charge controllers from Blue Sky Energy can be configured 
as Master & Slave so ALL controllers work together. With up to 8 
controllers on the network, you can have multiple arrays and orintations. 
Their new Duo model will function as hydro or wind diversion control. AND, 
each controller has a fully programmable lighting control! Sounds like 
this is the controller to meet all your requests. We have sold hundreds 
and I highly recommend them.


Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems
(928) 342-9103
www.starlightsolar.com

Retail Store& Warehouse
2998 Shari Ave.
Yuma, Az 85365

USPS Postal Mail Only
11881 S Fortuna Road, #210
Yuma, AZ 85367
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Finding ground faults

[William Miller]

Mike:

Is there such a tool as a DC clamp-on that can reliably measure 10 mA?  My 
experience is any clamp meter is unreliable below 5A.


William


At 10:09 PM 5/23/2012, Mike Sullivan wrote:

Hi Bob,

Sorry if I am duplicating any of the replies you've already received 
regarding the possible ground fault. I think the best way to determine 
whether GFDI is tripping on 1 A ground current or 80 A circuit current is 
to use a sensitive DC clamp-on to check the current on your system ground 
under normal operation. If it is more than about 10 mA when things are 
dry, you probably do have a ground fault issue to resolve. Assuming that's 
true, I recommend that you buy, borrow or rent a megohm tester (like those 
by Megger) to check out your circuit wiring resistance. Once you fully 
isolate your strings at the combiner box, you can quickly zero in on where 
the fault lies -- just divide and conquer. You may need to wet down the 
array and wiring to make the fault more detectable. Often, the fault will 
be in wiring that was damaged when pulled from a splice or combiner box 
into conduit, esp. if there's no bushing on the conduit terminal adapter.


A word of warning -- if you have more than one ground fault, some parts of 
your equipment grounding system will be carrying current, which may be 
sizable. Use precautions when disconnecting any wiring or grounds. A 
clamp-on is really useful here...


Hope that helps!

Cheers,

Mike Sullivan



Wrenches:
?
Sorry to bring up this situation again, but I could not find a previous 
discussion thread that talked about step-by-step procedures for tracking 
down ground faults (I believe it was John Berdner who provided the bulk of 
the writing in that regard and it related to high voltage strings?not that 
75-85 volts per string is all that low).

?
We have an Outback FLEXpower Two system with 8, 3-module strings (Silicon 
Energy 190W, 25.3Vmp, 7.5 Imp) combined in a Midnite Solar MNPV12 combiner 
with breakers.? The cables from the array are routed to two different 
Wiley 4-string pass-through boxes (located under the two center strings) 
and then off of the roof and into the PV combiner.

?
Up until this week the system has seen several weeks of awesome power 
production.? Yesterday, the rains came and the GFDI breaker tripped.? 
Every time it rains, the little green breaker on the GFDI trips off. ?That 
tells me that the ground fault is occurring in a place where at least one 
of the conductors on one of the strings (possibly more) is getting wet and 
conducting current to ground.

?
It would seem to me that the most likely place for moisture to cause a 
ground fault to occur in this system would be in the pass-through boxes.? 
This would mean removing the central modules to access the pass-through boxes.

?
Any of you who have mounted the Silicon Energy modules know that the 
cables are contained in trays along the side of the modules until they are 
routed through conduit to the pass-through boxes.? So, if there is current 
going to ground from any of these cables, it could even be occurring in 
any of the 9 trays along side of the modules.? I do not like the idea of 
tracking down a ground fault in one of these trays as they are all 
interconnected.

?
How best (and safely) to track down where the ground fault is occurring?? 
Any advice as to the best and safest way to track down the ground fault(s) 
would be greatly appreciated.

?
Bob Clark
SolarWind Energy Systems, LLC


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Miller Solar
Voice :805-438-5600
email: will...@millersolar.com
http://millersolar.com
License No. C-10-773985

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