[RBW] Re: FS: Lots of nice Chrome parts for your builds/projects

[Drew Fitchette]

Sorry Peter! it's 700c! 

On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 10:41:25 PM UTC-4 Peter Adler wrote:

> Not for nothing, but in all these updates, you haven't said what the size 
> of the wheel is, and none of the photos includes an ETRTO marking. Velocity 
> Atlas comes in 26", 650B and 700c; which is it?
>
> Peter "not looking for an Atlas front, but looking for a 40H 650B Atlas 
> rear rim to go with an SA IGH" Adler
> Berkeley, California
>
> On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 11:32:06 AM UTC-7 Drew Fitchette wrote:
>
>> Cable hanger is gone! Just the wheel remains!
>>
>>- *Velocity Atlas Front Wheel on Deore Hub by Hands on wheels(looks 
>>nearly new) - $150*
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 9:34:19 AM UTC-4 Drew Fitchette wrote:
>>
>>> Stem and Handlebar are both sold! 
>>>
>>>- *1 1/8” Nitto x Fairweather silver cable hanger(opened but never 
>>>mounted) - $25*
>>>- *Velocity Atlas Front Wheel on Deore Hub by Hands on wheels(looks 
>>>nearly new) - $150*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, September 11, 2024 at 2:09:40 PM UTC-4 Drew Fitchette 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Reviving this old post now that we head into fall with a couple 
 additions, prices don't include shipping:



- *1 1/8” Nitto x Fairweather silver cable hanger(opened but never 
mounted) - $25*
- *Velocity Atlas Front Wheel on Deore Hub by Hands on wheels(looks 
nearly new) - $150*


- *Nitto 135mm TIG FacePlater - 225mm Quill - 25.4 - $70*
- *Rivendell 60cm Tosco Handlebar - $45*

 - Drew


 On Wednesday, May 8, 2024 at 9:21:28 AM UTC-4 Drew Fitchette wrote:

> Alright everyone, Last list update. Just have the front wheel and the 
> cable hanger left:
>
>- *1 1/8” Nitto x Fairweather silver cable hanger(opened but never 
>mounted) - $25*
>
>
>- *Velocity Atlas Front Wheel on Deore Hub by Hands on 
>wheels(looks nearly new) - $150*
>
>
> On Monday, May 6, 2024 at 9:10:36 PM UTC-4 Drew Fitchette wrote:
>
>> Tires and saddle are gone. Here’s what’s left with reduced prices:
>>
>>
>>
>>- *Pair of Shimano DXR V brakes - $40*
>>
>>
>>- *Clipper Triple Crank(with chain guard for double conversion) - 
>>Hold*
>>
>>
>>- *1 1/8” Nitto x Fairweather silver cable hanger(opened but 
>>never mounted) - $25*
>>
>>
>>- *Shimano Deore LX M563 front and rear matching Derailleurs - 
>>$35 OBO*
>>
>>
>>- *Velocity Atlas Front Wheel on Deore Hub by Hands on 
>>wheels(looks nearly new) - $150*
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, May 4, 2024 at 5:45:14 PM UTC-4 Drew Fitchette wrote:
>>
>>> Updated list for your viewing pleasure:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>- *Pair of Shimano DXR V brakes - $45*
>>>
>>>
>>>- *Clipper Triple Crank(with chain guard for double conversion) 
>>>- Hold*
>>>
>>>
>>>- *1 1/8” Nitto x Fairweather silver cable hanger(opened but 
>>>never mounted) - $25*
>>>
>>>
>>>- *Shimano Deore LX M563 front and rear matching Derailleurs - 
>>>$40 OBO*
>>>
>>>
>>>- *Velocity Atlas Front Wheel on Deore Hub by Hands on 
>>>wheels(looks nearly new) - Hold*
>>>
>>>
>>>- *Pair of Soma Shikoro tires 38mm (low miles) - $40*
>>>- *Brooks Flyer Special (low miles, mounting scuffs on the 
>>>rails) - $80*
>>>
>>> On Friday, May 3, 2024 at 4:12:10 PM UTC-4 Drew Fitchette wrote:
>>>
 Levers have sold, everything else with some updated info/pricing 
 before shipping:


- *Velo Orange Silver Grand Cru Long Pull brake levers and 
shims - $OLD*
- *Pair of Shimano DXR V brakes - $45*
- *Clipper Triple Crank(with chain guard for double conversion) 
- $70*


- *1 1/8” Nitto x Fairweather silver cable hanger(opened but 
never mounted) - $25*
- *Sram 11-34 cassette - $15*


- *Shimano Deore LX M563 front and rear matching Derailleurs - 
$40 OBO*


- *Velocity Atlas Front Wheel on Deore Hub by Hands on 
wheels(looks nearly new) - $150*


- *Single Tektro R559 side pull with second pair of kool stop 
pads(well used, but works great) - $20*
- *Pair of Soma Shikoro tires 38mm (low miles) - $40*


- *Brooks Flyer Special (low miles, mounting scuffs on the 
rails) - $80*

 On Thursday, May 2, 2024 at 8:50:01 PM UTC-4 Steve wrote:

> Msg'd - VO Levers
>
> On Thursday, May 2, 2024 at 5:57:17 PM UTC-4 nca...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>>

[RBW] Re: Slipping on swept back handlebars

[James M]

I couldn't for the life of me get Ron's Ortho Bars to stop slipping.  I 
switched them out for a Choco-moose and never looked back!  The -moose bars 
are the perfect swept back system for rough terrain.

On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 8:54:25 AM UTC-4 Bill S wrote:

> This is probably not recommended, but I had a pair of choco bars that 
> slipped a bit when I first put them on, and ended up using the old soda can 
> shim trick and it's worked like a charm for about 2 years now.
>
> On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 2:33:31 AM UTC-4 ricksteves wrote:
>
>> Could always try a 25.4 clamp stem with the 26.0 diameter HBs - the 
>> muscle it takes to get that clamp onto the wider HBs is more than enough to 
>> keep it in place when riding.
>>
>> A faceplater stem is never a bad idea either, since 2 or 4 bolts is more 
>> secure than 1.
>>
>> ~ NJD
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 10, 2024 at 12:45:45 PM UTC-6 Ethan VanValkenburg 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I just put some swept back handlebars on my bicycle and I am having 
>>> trouble with slipping. The handlebars sweep back 7 inches or so with a 26mm 
>>> clamp diameter. My stem is a nitto tallux and I'm switching in an old 130mm 
>>> Ritchey stem for more reach, but I'm still worried about the bar slipping. 
>>> Is there a good solution for gripping big bars that increase torque at the 
>>> stem clamp, especially when riding on gravel/off-road? 
>>>
>>> I might be able to tighten it more, but I'm worried that going tighter 
>>> will strip or deform the bolt. Do folks ever use thread-locker or some 
>>> adhesive for extra stick? Or do I need a 2-4 bolt faceplate stem for the 
>>> extra gripping strength?
>>>
>>> Let me know if you have any tips/tricks/ideas! Thanks,
>>>
>>> Ethan
>>>
>>

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[RBW] ISO: one Fleecer Ridge tire, used a-ok

[James M]

Hi, all.  I want to test fit a Rene Herse Fleecer Ridge tire on the front 
and rear of my original run Hunqapillar, before dropping the cash on a new 
set.  (I think it's going to be close - pretty sure these first Hunqs were 
spec'd at 2.1")  Anyone have a used tire for sale?

Thanks!

James

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Re: [RBW] Lael Wilcox

[Drew Saunders]

Here's a gift link to the NYT article about Lael's ride (which she's 
finished): 
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/12/sports/cycling/bicycle-around-the-world-record.html?unlocked_article_code=1.KU4.WX6-.ePmZoh9XefY6&smid=url-share

On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 8:09:54 PM UTC-7 ted...@gmail.com wrote:

> So glad some of you had the chance and took the time to ride with Lael 
> during this event. I look forward to what I hope is an upcoming 
> consolidated podcast and/or book on the ride. Inspirational. 
>
> Ted
>
> On Sep 12, 2024, at 9:37 PM, WilletM  wrote:
>
> 
>
>
> Quite a few years ago, I was lucky enough to meet Lael (and her 
> then-companion, Nick) and give the pair a ride from the Denver area out to 
> western Colorado.  I had been following their adventures on Nick's "Gypsy 
> by Trade" blog, which is also where I believe I came into contact with 
> them.  Though Lael had at that time been (I recall?) an endurance runner of 
> some repute, it was my understanding from reading the blog and talking to 
> them that Lael was just starting out with bikepacking and extended bike 
> travel.  My overwhelming recollection of her during the trip was of an 
> utterly wide-eyed young woman who was just taking it all in and going with 
> the flow, with Nick being the more experienced traveler and planner and 
> blogger.
>
> Fast forwarding some years down the road, I remember following Lael's 
> extraordinary ride in the TransAm race across the US, which I think Nick 
> blogged about every evening nearly in real time after speaking to Lael 
> about that day's adventure.  For those who haven't read about that 
> particular race, the daily blog entries from Nick are some of the most 
> exciting reading that I've ever done.  And the last couple of days and the 
> ending had me standing and cheering and forwarding links to everyone I 
> could think of.  
>
> I heard Lael get interviewed on BBC radio today and it made me smile.  
> She's still a wide-eyed young woman and you can just hear the excitement in 
> her voice as she contemplates getting back on her bike for the next day's 
> ride.  What a great role model she has been with all her Tour Divide and 
> Baja Divide advocacy.  She's definitely leaving her mark in the world, and 
> some days it just happens to be a world record.
>
> Willet M.
>
> On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 10:19:27 AM UTC-6 Ted Durant wrote:
>
>>
>> On Sep 12, 2024, at 11:01 AM, Paul M  wrote:
>>
>> She mentioned that a rider was drafting her too close for quite some time 
>> and wouldn't back off. It must be that dude staring at his phone.
>>
>>
>> No, this photo is from yesterday, her final day, and "that dude” is a 
>> very, very good rider and was (like me) grabbing a photo. He (and the guy 
>> next to him) took Amtrak downstate and rode around 200km with her to the 
>> finish and they were super respectful of both her and all the other riders.
>>
>>
>> Ted Durant
>> Milwaukee, WI USA
>>
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> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Puzzled by 2 Rivendell recommendations

[Brian Forsee]

I'd agree with the above sentiments that the name was settled on before the 
final iteration of the bike. If the bike was named after the final design 
was complete, I think  'RoaDuo' would be fitting

Brian

On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 6:52:56 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Yes to the IGH; far more elegant IMO than a FD and a chain tensioner not 
> to mention the multiple chainrings. But the defect of IGHs is the choice of 
> ratios, drag -- if you choose a wider-range, more-ratios hub the internal 
> friction increases, and if you choose the lowest drag options (several 
> tests have shown that the basic SA 3 speed hubs have no more drag, or even 
> a wee bit less drag, overall, than derailleur systems), you are limited to 
> the more basic 2 and 3 speed hubs which have very limited range.
>
> But if you can get by with limited ratios, they're worth considering. I've 
> built very usable all-rounder beaters with the venerable, durable, and in 
> fact ineradicable AW, and the nice thing is that the these are very 
> available, very cheap -- old units are about $50 on eBay and older ones, 
> even the 114 mm OL ones, will work fine with 120 mm frames. I've set mine 
> up with 3d/high/overdrive for pavement cruising with about a 72" gear, 
> 2nd/direct at about 54", and 1st/low/underdrive at about 41".
>
> Couple the AW with a double ring and you can split the gaps in the AW for 
> a very usable 6-speed -- my second complete bike build circa 1971 had a 
> "half stepped" AW, tho' I used 2 cogs instead of 2 rings.
>
> But even more exotic SA IGH are available on eBay; the wonderful AM medium 
> ratio hub comes up from time to time at reasonable prices (I got mine for 
> well under $200 each -- $150? -- IIRC in runnable condition) and again the 
> 114 mm OL will fit 120 mm frames with only strategic anti-rotation washer 
> selection and placement. And, it uses the ubiquitous AW trigger shifter. 
> Direct, 15.5% overdrive, 0.8654% underdrive; mine are geared75/65/56". And 
> the AM is reputed to be, like the AW, one of SA's most durable hubs.
>
> And even the pure gold ASC close ratio fixed 3 speed. I got my 2 very 
> cheaply, $200 NOS and $150 used but VG. But these are much rarer; I was 
> lucky.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 1:19 PM Mackenzy Albright  
> wrote:
>
>> ... I think an internal real hub like a sturmey-archer 3 speed with a 
>> compact double crank and paul tensioner would be an incredible build 
>> Price aside the roaduno is the perfect candidate for some fun builds.  
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Lael Wilcox

[Ted Durant]

Lael has been quoted several times talking about how good she felt at the 
end, and how she felt like she could just keep going. She said the same to 
me as we were riding and, I have to tell you, she looked like she could 
certainly go forever. I just looked at my Strava data from the ride, and 
the first 40km I rode with her was at an average of 29.9kph. That's a fast 
pace for me over 100km; I've certainly never done 300km at that pace. 
Granted, it was pancake flat, and there was maybe a slight cross/tail wind, 
but it was also getting pretty warm and there's no shade in the cornfields, 
and the last 10km of those 40km were on a gravel path. She showed no sign 
of effort at that speed. 

In 3 months she rode the equivalent of what I would consider 3 good years 
worth of biking. Maybe my favorite stat ... 630,000 feet of climbing.

Mind-boggling.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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Re: [RBW] Puzzled by 2 Rivendell recommendations

[Joe Bernard]

To be fair every road bike is a Roaduno. You pedal one gear at a time! 

On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 9:00:02 AM UTC-7 bmfo...@gmail.com wrote:

> I'd agree with the above sentiments that the name was settled on before 
> the final iteration of the bike. If the bike was named after the final 
> design was complete, I think  'RoaDuo' would be fitting
>
> Brian
>
> On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 6:52:56 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Yes to the IGH; far more elegant IMO than a FD and a chain tensioner not 
>> to mention the multiple chainrings. But the defect of IGHs is the choice of 
>> ratios, drag -- if you choose a wider-range, more-ratios hub the internal 
>> friction increases, and if you choose the lowest drag options (several 
>> tests have shown that the basic SA 3 speed hubs have no more drag, or even 
>> a wee bit less drag, overall, than derailleur systems), you are limited to 
>> the more basic 2 and 3 speed hubs which have very limited range.
>>
>> But if you can get by with limited ratios, they're worth considering. 
>> I've built very usable all-rounder beaters with the venerable, durable, and 
>> in fact ineradicable AW, and the nice thing is that the these are very 
>> available, very cheap -- old units are about $50 on eBay and older ones, 
>> even the 114 mm OL ones, will work fine with 120 mm frames. I've set mine 
>> up with 3d/high/overdrive for pavement cruising with about a 72" gear, 
>> 2nd/direct at about 54", and 1st/low/underdrive at about 41".
>>
>> Couple the AW with a double ring and you can split the gaps in the AW for 
>> a very usable 6-speed -- my second complete bike build circa 1971 had a 
>> "half stepped" AW, tho' I used 2 cogs instead of 2 rings.
>>
>> But even more exotic SA IGH are available on eBay; the wonderful AM 
>> medium ratio hub comes up from time to time at reasonable prices (I got 
>> mine for well under $200 each -- $150? -- IIRC in runnable condition) and 
>> again the 114 mm OL will fit 120 mm frames with only strategic 
>> anti-rotation washer selection and placement. And, it uses the ubiquitous 
>> AW trigger shifter. Direct, 15.5% overdrive, 0.8654% underdrive; mine are 
>> geared75/65/56". And the AM is reputed to be, like the AW, one of SA's most 
>> durable hubs.
>>
>> And even the pure gold ASC close ratio fixed 3 speed. I got my 2 very 
>> cheaply, $200 NOS and $150 used but VG. But these are much rarer; I was 
>> lucky.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 1:19 PM Mackenzy Albright  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> ... I think an internal real hub like a sturmey-archer 3 speed with a 
>>> compact double crank and paul tensioner would be an incredible build 
>>> Price aside the roaduno is the perfect candidate for some fun builds.  
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: 43mm-46mm 650b Tire Options.

[Jason Fuller]

There certainly isn't much out there. I ordered 650Bx43 Gravel King SK's 
from Germany and they measure quite true to size and are great all-rounder 
tires in my opinion. The shipping is costly, but the tires themselves were 
cheap; I ordered two pair and the total was cheaper than US MSRP for GK's. 
I ordered thru bike-components.de.  They also have the nice Schwalbe tubes 

On Thursday 12 September 2024 at 15:45:03 UTC-7 Ken Mattina wrote:

> I like the 47mm Teravail Rampart tires.
>
> On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 3:05 PM christian poppell  
> wrote:
>
>> I'll put in a plug for the Soma Cazaderos. The 48 version runs small and 
>> would be a great choice if you're looking for a semi knobbed tire below 
>> 48mm.
>>
>> On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 11:59:43 AM UTC-7 John Bokman wrote:
>>
>>> I ride 700c, but agree that Bruce Gordon R&R are excellent tires! 
>>> Fantastic on the rough stuff, and good on pavement. The owners are great 
>>> people, too, providing excellent customer support.
>>> I am a big fan of Panaracer tires, having ridden various iterations for 
>>> years. My current favorite for city riding is the Pasella Protite. Very 
>>> comfy tires, with better puncture resistance than the original. They offer 
>>> great grip on pavement - and they do surprisingly well on dirt. However, I 
>>> wish they came in a 700cx40 or 42. The fattest is a 38mm. 
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 10:35:41 AM UTC-7 Kyle Cotchett wrote:
>>>
 If you are into knobby tires, I am currently riding some bruce gordon 
 43mm rock n roads  on my 
 bleriot. I love mine. They rip on trail paths and didnt feel slowed down 
 on 
 pavement. They do make that nice treaded hum on pavement if youre into 
 that 
 sort of thing.

 Kyle

 On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 8:19:43 AM UTC-7 Michael Baquerizo 
 wrote:

>
> https://www.modernbike.com/panaracer-t-serv-protite-folding-tire-650b-x-44mm-black
>
> sorry i never measured what mine come out to on a set of VO voyager 
> rims. 
>
> I use these on my 'commuter' (i'm freelance so i don't often commute) 
> but have and ride around NYC with these.
>
>
>
> On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 10:43:40 AM UTC-4 pbsm...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Not sure I've seen anything marked between 42-584 and 48-584. 
>> Smitty in DC
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 11, 2024 at 9:50:57 AM UTC-4 David B wrote:
>>
>>> Curious what true 43mm-46mm 650b tire options are currently 
>>> available. I'm using Velocity Atlas rims, so 'true' meaning they'll 
>>> measure 
>>> that on those rims. I setup my Riv Redwood (glad I kept) as 650b for a 
>>> while now and am running 48mm Pari Motos (slightly undersized). They're 
>>> mighty close to the chainstays, so looking for something slightly 
>>> smaller. 
>>> Asking for 43mm as it seems many of the current 42mm are undersized. 
>>> Thanks!
>>> David 
>>>
>> -- 
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Where did the spring go?
> Where did my hormones go?
> Where did my energy go?
> Where did my go go?
> Where did the pleasure go?
> Where did my hair go?
>
> -- Ray Davies
>

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Re: [RBW] Puzzled by 2 Rivendell recommendations

[Bill Lindsay]

"elegant IMO"

Elegance certainly is in the eye of the beholder.  Even if you think your 
derailleur-equipped bike(s) are inelegant, I think they are equivalently 
elegant to your IGH bike(s).  I think they are all valid and equivalently 
elegant ways to realize a build.  

Pushing it to the limit of *Opinion*, in the IMO department, I'm becoming 
convinced that chains are primarily good for being derailed.  Shiftability 
is the core attribute of contemporary chains.  For me, if you've got a 
drive train with no derailleurs, the preferable setup, in the IMO elegance 
department is a BELT.  A belt is a purpose built optimized object for a 
no-derailleur setup.  So, for optimal elegance (IMO), an IGH build should 
be a belt build.  IMO.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA



On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 4:52:56 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Yes to the IGH; far more elegant IMO than a FD and a chain tensioner not 
> to mention the multiple chainrings. But the defect of IGHs is the choice of 
> ratios, drag -- if you choose a wider-range, more-ratios hub the internal 
> friction increases, and if you choose the lowest drag options (several 
> tests have shown that the basic SA 3 speed hubs have no more drag, or even 
> a wee bit less drag, overall, than derailleur systems), you are limited to 
> the more basic 2 and 3 speed hubs which have very limited range.
>
> But if you can get by with limited ratios, they're worth considering. I've 
> built very usable all-rounder beaters with the venerable, durable, and in 
> fact ineradicable AW, and the nice thing is that the these are very 
> available, very cheap -- old units are about $50 on eBay and older ones, 
> even the 114 mm OL ones, will work fine with 120 mm frames. I've set mine 
> up with 3d/high/overdrive for pavement cruising with about a 72" gear, 
> 2nd/direct at about 54", and 1st/low/underdrive at about 41".
>
> Couple the AW with a double ring and you can split the gaps in the AW for 
> a very usable 6-speed -- my second complete bike build circa 1971 had a 
> "half stepped" AW, tho' I used 2 cogs instead of 2 rings.
>
> But even more exotic SA IGH are available on eBay; the wonderful AM medium 
> ratio hub comes up from time to time at reasonable prices (I got mine for 
> well under $200 each -- $150? -- IIRC in runnable condition) and again the 
> 114 mm OL will fit 120 mm frames with only strategic anti-rotation washer 
> selection and placement. And, it uses the ubiquitous AW trigger shifter. 
> Direct, 15.5% overdrive, 0.8654% underdrive; mine are geared75/65/56". And 
> the AM is reputed to be, like the AW, one of SA's most durable hubs.
>
> And even the pure gold ASC close ratio fixed 3 speed. I got my 2 very 
> cheaply, $200 NOS and $150 used but VG. But these are much rarer; I was 
> lucky.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 1:19 PM Mackenzy Albright  
> wrote:
>
>> ... I think an internal real hub like a sturmey-archer 3 speed with a 
>> compact double crank and paul tensioner would be an incredible build 
>> Price aside the roaduno is the perfect candidate for some fun builds.  
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: 43mm-46mm 650b Tire Options.

[Richard Rose]

Easy answer; Simworks Homage 650/27.5 x 43 (or 55). Both fantastic and on sale now for just $54.00. Sent from my iPhoneOn Sep 13, 2024, at 2:07 PM, Jason Fuller  wrote:There certainly isn't much out there. I ordered 650Bx43 Gravel King SK's from Germany and they measure quite true to size and are great all-rounder tires in my opinion. The shipping is costly, but the tires themselves were cheap; I ordered two pair and the total was cheaper than US MSRP for GK's. I ordered thru bike-components.de.  They also have the nice Schwalbe tubes On Thursday 12 September 2024 at 15:45:03 UTC-7 Ken Mattina wrote:I like the 47mm Teravail Rampart tires.On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 3:05 PM christian poppell  wrote:I'll put in a plug for the Soma Cazaderos. The 48 version runs small and would be a great choice if you're looking for a semi knobbed tire below 48mm.On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 11:59:43 AM UTC-7 John Bokman wrote:I ride 700c, but agree that Bruce Gordon R&R are excellent tires! Fantastic on the rough stuff, and good on pavement. The owners are great people, too, providing excellent customer support.I am a big fan of Panaracer tires, having ridden various iterations for years. My current favorite for city riding is the Pasella Protite. Very comfy tires, with better puncture resistance than the original. They offer great grip on pavement - and they do surprisingly well on dirt. However, I wish they came in a 700cx40 or 42. The fattest is a 38mm. JohnOn Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 10:35:41 AM UTC-7 Kyle Cotchett wrote:If you are into knobby tires, I am currently riding some bruce gordon 43mm rock n roads on my bleriot. I love mine. They rip on trail paths and didnt feel slowed down on pavement. They do make that nice treaded hum on pavement if youre into that sort of thing.KyleOn Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 8:19:43 AM UTC-7 Michael Baquerizo wrote:https://www.modernbike.com/panaracer-t-serv-protite-folding-tire-650b-x-44mm-blacksorry i never measured what mine come out to on a set of VO voyager rims. I use these on my 'commuter' (i'm freelance so i don't often commute) but have and ride around NYC with these.On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 10:43:40 AM UTC-4 pbsm...@gmail.com wrote:Not sure I've seen anything marked between 42-584 and 48-584. Smitty in DCOn Wednesday, September 11, 2024 at 9:50:57 AM UTC-4 David B wrote:Curious what true 43mm-46mm 650b tire options are currently available. I'm using Velocity Atlas rims, so 'true' meaning they'll measure that on those rims. I setup my Riv Redwood (glad I kept) as 650b for a while now and am running 48mm Pari Motos (slightly undersized). They're mighty close to the chainstays, so looking for something slightly smaller. Asking for 43mm as it seems many of the current 42mm are undersized. Thanks!David 



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-- Where did the spring go?Where did my hormones go?Where did my energy go?Where did my go go?Where did the pleasure go?Where did my hair go?-- Ray Davies




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[RBW] Re: FS: Albatross, Paul Thumbie, TA Specialites Chainring, 26.8 Seatpost, GK SS+

[Chris Halasz]

Prices do not include shipping (in case someone would like to combine), 
packaged from 93105 to minimize shipping cost. 


(Rivendell Nitto Albatross 54 Aluminum $70 - Sold)


(Paul Thumbie, right hand $30 - Sold)


(Specialites T.A. Zephyr 48T 110BCD $20 - Sold)


700x43 GravelKing SS+, some interior tubeless residue $20 


26.8 mm Kalin seatpost $5 


(Newbaum’s Gray bartape roll $4 - Sold)


Some photos here 

. 

On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 7:43:42 PM UTC-7 Chris Halasz wrote:

> Prices do not include shipping (in case someone would like to combine), 
> packaged from 93105 to minimize shipping cost. 
>
>
> (Rivendell Nitto Albatross 54 Aluminum $70 - Sold)
>
>
> (Paul Thumbie, right hand $30 - Sold)
>
>
> (Specialites T.A. Zephyr 48T 110BCD $20 - Pending)
>
>
> 700x43 GravelKing SS+, some interior tubeless residue $20 
>
>
> 26.8 mm Kalin seatpost $5 
>
>
> (Newbaum’s Gray bartape roll $4 - Sold)
>
>
> Some photos here 
> 
> . 
>
>
> On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 6:15:25 PM UTC-7 Chris Halasz wrote:
>
>> Prices do not include shipping (in case someone would like to combine), 
>> packaged from 93105 to minimize shipping cost. 
>>
>>
>> (Rivendell Nitto Albatross 54 Aluminum $70 - Pending)
>>
>>
>> (Paul Thumbie, right hand $30 - Pending)
>>
>>
>> (Specialites T.A. Zephyr 48T 110BCD $20 - Pending)
>>
>>
>> 700x43 GravelKing SS+, some interior tubeless residue $20 
>>
>>
>> 26.8 mm Kalin seatpost $5 
>>
>>
>> (Newbaum’s Gray bartape roll $4 - Pending)
>>
>>
>> Some photos here 
>> 
>> . 
>>
>> On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 3:59:10 PM UTC-7 Chris Halasz wrote:
>>
>>> Prices do not include shipping (in case someone would like to combine), 
>>> packaged from 93105 to minimize shipping cost. 
>>>
>>>
>>> (Rivendell Nitto Albatross 54 Aluminum $70 - Pending)
>>>
>>>
>>> Paul Thumbie, right hand $30 
>>>
>>>
>>> Specialites T.A. Zephyr 48T 110BCD $20 
>>>
>>>
>>> 700x43 GravelKing SS+, some interior tubeless residue $20 
>>>
>>>
>>> 26.8 mm Kalin seatpost $5 
>>>
>>>
>>> (Newbaum’s Gray bartape roll $4 - Pending)
>>>
>>>
>>> Some photos here 
>>> 
>>> . 
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 3:57:42 PM UTC-7 Chris Halasz wrote:
>>>
 Prices do not include shipping (in case someone would like to combine), 
 packaged from 93105 to minimize shipping cost. 


 (Rivendell Nitto Albatross 54 Aluminum $70 - Pending)


 Paul Thumbie, right hand $30 


 Specialites T.A. Zephyr 48T 110BCD $20 


 700x43 GravelKing SS+ $20 


 26.8 mm Kalin seatpost $5 


 Newbaum’s Gray bartape roll $4 


 Some photos here 
 
 . 

 On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 2:20:51 PM UTC-7 Chris Halasz wrote:

> Prices do not include shipping (in case someone would like to 
> combine), packaged from 93105 to minimize shipping cost. 
>
>
> Rivendell Nitto Albatross 54 Aluminum $70 
>
>
> Paul Thumbie, right hand $30 
>
>
> Specialites T.A. Zephyr 48T 110BCD $20 
>
>
> 700x43 GravelKing SS+ $20 
>
>
> 26.8 mm Kalin seatpost $5 
>
>
> Newbaum’s Gray bartape roll $4 
>
>
> Some photos here 
> 
> . 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Puzzled by 2 Rivendell recommendations

[Ray Varella]

Belts would likely be well received if more bikes were built to accommodate 
them. 
A belt with an IGH be extremely practical for people who don’t maintain 
their bikes. 
Children’s bikes, commuter bikes and occasional use bikes that get stored 
outside would benefit. 

MHO
Ray

On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 11:19:47 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> "elegant IMO"
>
> Elegance certainly is in the eye of the beholder.  Even if you think your 
> derailleur-equipped bike(s) are inelegant, I think they are equivalently 
> elegant to your IGH bike(s).  I think they are all valid and equivalently 
> elegant ways to realize a build.  
>
> Pushing it to the limit of *Opinion*, in the IMO department, I'm becoming 
> convinced that chains are primarily good for being derailed.  Shiftability 
> is the core attribute of contemporary chains.  For me, if you've got a 
> drive train with no derailleurs, the preferable setup, in the IMO elegance 
> department is a BELT.  A belt is a purpose built optimized object for a 
> no-derailleur setup.  So, for optimal elegance (IMO), an IGH build should 
> be a belt build.  IMO.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>
>
> On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 4:52:56 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Yes to the IGH; far more elegant IMO than a FD and a chain tensioner not 
>> to mention the multiple chainrings. But the defect of IGHs is the choice of 
>> ratios, drag -- if you choose a wider-range, more-ratios hub the internal 
>> friction increases, and if you choose the lowest drag options (several 
>> tests have shown that the basic SA 3 speed hubs have no more drag, or even 
>> a wee bit less drag, overall, than derailleur systems), you are limited to 
>> the more basic 2 and 3 speed hubs which have very limited range.
>>
>> But if you can get by with limited ratios, they're worth considering. 
>> I've built very usable all-rounder beaters with the venerable, durable, and 
>> in fact ineradicable AW, and the nice thing is that the these are very 
>> available, very cheap -- old units are about $50 on eBay and older ones, 
>> even the 114 mm OL ones, will work fine with 120 mm frames. I've set mine 
>> up with 3d/high/overdrive for pavement cruising with about a 72" gear, 
>> 2nd/direct at about 54", and 1st/low/underdrive at about 41".
>>
>> Couple the AW with a double ring and you can split the gaps in the AW for 
>> a very usable 6-speed -- my second complete bike build circa 1971 had a 
>> "half stepped" AW, tho' I used 2 cogs instead of 2 rings.
>>
>> But even more exotic SA IGH are available on eBay; the wonderful AM 
>> medium ratio hub comes up from time to time at reasonable prices (I got 
>> mine for well under $200 each -- $150? -- IIRC in runnable condition) and 
>> again the 114 mm OL will fit 120 mm frames with only strategic 
>> anti-rotation washer selection and placement. And, it uses the ubiquitous 
>> AW trigger shifter. Direct, 15.5% overdrive, 0.8654% underdrive; mine are 
>> geared75/65/56". And the AM is reputed to be, like the AW, one of SA's most 
>> durable hubs.
>>
>> And even the pure gold ASC close ratio fixed 3 speed. I got my 2 very 
>> cheaply, $200 NOS and $150 used but VG. But these are much rarer; I was 
>> lucky.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 1:19 PM Mackenzy Albright  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> ... I think an internal real hub like a sturmey-archer 3 speed with a 
>>> compact double crank and paul tensioner would be an incredible build 
>>> Price aside the roaduno is the perfect candidate for some fun builds.  
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Puzzled by 2 Rivendell recommendations

[ian m]

Belt drive is extremely practical for people who don't *care *for 
drivetrain maintenance. I maintain all my (and wife's) bikes and am 
overjoyed with the IGH and belt drive on my Omnium cargo.
Not to mention the beautiful silence that accompanies riding with it. 

On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 3:26:39 PM UTC-4 Ray Varella wrote:

> Belts would likely be well received if more bikes were built to 
> accommodate them. 
> A belt with an IGH be extremely practical for people who don’t maintain 
> their bikes. 
> Children’s bikes, commuter bikes and occasional use bikes that get stored 
> outside would benefit. 
>
> MHO
> Ray
>
> On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 11:19:47 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> "elegant IMO"
>>
>> Elegance certainly is in the eye of the beholder.  Even if you think your 
>> derailleur-equipped bike(s) are inelegant, I think they are equivalently 
>> elegant to your IGH bike(s).  I think they are all valid and equivalently 
>> elegant ways to realize a build.  
>>
>> Pushing it to the limit of *Opinion*, in the IMO department, I'm 
>> becoming convinced that chains are primarily good for being derailed. 
>>  Shiftability is the core attribute of contemporary chains.  For me, if 
>> you've got a drive train with no derailleurs, the preferable setup, in the 
>> IMO elegance department is a BELT.  A belt is a purpose built optimized 
>> object for a no-derailleur setup.  So, for optimal elegance (IMO), an IGH 
>> build should be a belt build.  IMO.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 4:52:56 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Yes to the IGH; far more elegant IMO than a FD and a chain tensioner not 
>>> to mention the multiple chainrings. But the defect of IGHs is the choice of 
>>> ratios, drag -- if you choose a wider-range, more-ratios hub the internal 
>>> friction increases, and if you choose the lowest drag options (several 
>>> tests have shown that the basic SA 3 speed hubs have no more drag, or even 
>>> a wee bit less drag, overall, than derailleur systems), you are limited to 
>>> the more basic 2 and 3 speed hubs which have very limited range.
>>>
>>> But if you can get by with limited ratios, they're worth considering. 
>>> I've built very usable all-rounder beaters with the venerable, durable, and 
>>> in fact ineradicable AW, and the nice thing is that the these are very 
>>> available, very cheap -- old units are about $50 on eBay and older ones, 
>>> even the 114 mm OL ones, will work fine with 120 mm frames. I've set mine 
>>> up with 3d/high/overdrive for pavement cruising with about a 72" gear, 
>>> 2nd/direct at about 54", and 1st/low/underdrive at about 41".
>>>
>>> Couple the AW with a double ring and you can split the gaps in the AW 
>>> for a very usable 6-speed -- my second complete bike build circa 1971 had a 
>>> "half stepped" AW, tho' I used 2 cogs instead of 2 rings.
>>>
>>> But even more exotic SA IGH are available on eBay; the wonderful AM 
>>> medium ratio hub comes up from time to time at reasonable prices (I got 
>>> mine for well under $200 each -- $150? -- IIRC in runnable condition) and 
>>> again the 114 mm OL will fit 120 mm frames with only strategic 
>>> anti-rotation washer selection and placement. And, it uses the ubiquitous 
>>> AW trigger shifter. Direct, 15.5% overdrive, 0.8654% underdrive; mine are 
>>> geared75/65/56". And the AM is reputed to be, like the AW, one of SA's most 
>>> durable hubs.
>>>
>>> And even the pure gold ASC close ratio fixed 3 speed. I got my 2 very 
>>> cheaply, $200 NOS and $150 used but VG. But these are much rarer; I was 
>>> lucky.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 1:19 PM Mackenzy Albright  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 ... I think an internal real hub like a sturmey-archer 3 speed with a 
 compact double crank and paul tensioner would be an incredible build 
 Price aside the roaduno is the perfect candidate for some fun builds.  

>>>

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[RBW] CX 50/70 brakes?

[Ron Cramer]

Thoughts? Love them or hate them?  I had them on my Atlantis. Took them
off. Couldn't get the straddle cable set up. Suggestions on setup? Thanks

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[RBW] Re: For the N+1 group

[R. Alexis]

Kind of. I have been selective on getting bikes for several years now. The 
ones I have gotten were literally given to me. In a couple cases I saved 
perfectly good framesets from being parted for scrap. 

Recently got a Giant mountain bike frameset that the used bike shop was 
going to scrap. Asked me if I wanted it. I took it. Finishing up building 
it from parts moved over from another Giant mountain bike I got from a 
friend that was crushed. Got a crushed Pinarello  Dogma XC from same friend 
that crushed his Giant. Been contemplating getting a frameset to use most 
of the parts to build up. Issue is the standards have changed since this 
thing initially came out in 2013 or so. Only frameset I have seen that 
comes close to being plug and play was the prior generation Soma Fab Juice 
with swap out of rear drop outs to quick release. Other options are lower 
end level 29er offerings from Specialized Rockhopper etc, if they can be 
gotten. I did use the 31.6 Thompson seatpost from the Pinarello on a Trek 
Rosco 7 mostly rolling chassis I got gifted to me. 

Thanks,

Reginald "Bicycle Rescue" Alexis

On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 1:43:30 PM UTC-5 Ray Varella wrote:

> How many can relate to this?

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[RBW] Re: For the N+1 group

[Jason Fuller]

I have what I would consider a thoroughly medium sized quiver of bikes at 
six, although I'm constantly doing the mental gymnastics to try to reduce 
the number through optimization. At the same time, a large part of me 
admires those who have just a bike or two and ride the heck out of them, so 
I kind of want to just split the collection in half and live more simply.  
Alas... I think it will be an unending battle. 

On Friday 13 September 2024 at 13:29:47 UTC-7 R. Alexis wrote:

> Kind of. I have been selective on getting bikes for several years now. The 
> ones I have gotten were literally given to me. In a couple cases I saved 
> perfectly good framesets from being parted for scrap. 
>
> Recently got a Giant mountain bike frameset that the used bike shop was 
> going to scrap. Asked me if I wanted it. I took it. Finishing up building 
> it from parts moved over from another Giant mountain bike I got from a 
> friend that was crushed. Got a crushed Pinarello  Dogma XC from same friend 
> that crushed his Giant. Been contemplating getting a frameset to use most 
> of the parts to build up. Issue is the standards have changed since this 
> thing initially came out in 2013 or so. Only frameset I have seen that 
> comes close to being plug and play was the prior generation Soma Fab Juice 
> with swap out of rear drop outs to quick release. Other options are lower 
> end level 29er offerings from Specialized Rockhopper etc, if they can be 
> gotten. I did use the 31.6 Thompson seatpost from the Pinarello on a Trek 
> Rosco 7 mostly rolling chassis I got gifted to me. 
>
> Thanks,
>
> Reginald "Bicycle Rescue" Alexis
>
> On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 1:43:30 PM UTC-5 Ray Varella wrote:
>
>> How many can relate to this?
>
>

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RE: [RBW] WTB: 26” tires about 2.0” to 2.2” - mildly knobbie

[Bernard Duhon]

Sorry for the delay in responding
Hurricane had a bulleye on my home.
Luckily, it moved 120 miles to the east.
Still had to prep for storm & unprep.

The marathon tire sells for cheap new & hardly worth shipping.


From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Abe Gardner
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2024 6:51 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] WTB: 26” tires about 2.0” to 2.2” - mildly knobbie

That just might work.
What price are you asking and any chance you’re local to the SF Bay Area so I 
could pick up?

Abe


On Sep 10, 2024, at 3:24 PM, Bernard Duhon 
mailto:bern...@bernardduhon.com>> wrote:

These are not lobbies, but I found them to be grippy enough 2 inch marathon 
supreme, and one 2 inch marathon if interested let me know

Get Outlook for iOS

From: 
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com>> 
on behalf of Pancake mailto:abe.gard...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2024 10:56:42 AM
To: RBW Owners Bunch 
mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com>>
Subject: Re: [RBW] WTB: 26” tires about 2.0” to 2.2” - mildly knobbie

A couple people have reached out and are checking on size and finding their 
spare tires. If I could find Billy bunkers for $20 each, I would just do that, 
but the closest I can find is $29 each plus $15 shipping on Schwabe itself.

Hopefully someone in the Bay Area will see this and have a couple 26 inch tires 
to spare, still looking and will update if that changes.
On Tuesday, September 10, 2024 at 2:51:58 AM UTC-7 John Johnson wrote:
A couple budget but good, mildly knobby choices are the schwalbe billy bonkers 
or kenda small block 8. Both are 26 x 2.1 and are usually under $20 a piece.

cheers,

john
On Tuesday, September 10, 2024 at 2:47:28 AM UTC+2 Ginz wrote:
Not sure if you saw my reply about the Marathon Mondials.  If interested, let 
me know.
On Monday, September 9, 2024 at 7:45:18 PM UTC-4 
nicklin...@gmail.com wrote:
Consider Continental’s “Double Fighter”. 1.9” with a bit of knobs, but so 
comfortable on both asphalt & dry dirt. Reasonable price too, in the $28.00 
each range.


Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 9, 2024, at 9:15 AM, Abe Gardner 
> mailto:abe.g...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Want to buy some sorta knobbie tires for a give away bike.
>
> 26” tires X 2” to 2.2” would be ideal, like Big Ben or RaceKing or something 
> in between.
>
> Got a tricky bike from a neighbor’s garage sale: 1997 Specialized S-Works M2
>
> --
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ED663AAF-8F0D-4706-83CB-CE1B108ADF47%40gmail.com.
> 
>
> I’m not into these Aluminum frames but I like the Mango color so I’m fixing 
> it up to give away / forever loan to someone. I snatched most the great XTR 
> and XT components.
>
> Located in Napa but could pick up from you in most of the Bay Area. Berkeley 
> or SF or such.
>
> Thanks!
> Abe
>
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Re: [RBW] Lael Wilcox

[Jason Fuller]

I rode with her for about the same distance a few weeks back when she 
passed through Vancouver BC. Totally echo your sentiments, she was as nice 
and genuine as I could have imagined, as well the pace was remarkable for 
day in - day out huge rides. It was a pace that's pretty sporty for a 200k 
brevet, let alone 260 - 340km every day for months. Also, being familiar 
with the full route she rode that day gave me newfound admiration for just 
how big the daily rides were and how incredibly strong she is. 

On Friday 13 September 2024 at 09:03:53 UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:

> Lael has been quoted several times talking about how good she felt at the 
> end, and how she felt like she could just keep going. She said the same to 
> me as we were riding and, I have to tell you, she looked like she could 
> certainly go forever. I just looked at my Strava data from the ride, and 
> the first 40km I rode with her was at an average of 29.9kph. That's a fast 
> pace for me over 100km; I've certainly never done 300km at that pace. 
> Granted, it was pancake flat, and there was maybe a slight cross/tail wind, 
> but it was also getting pretty warm and there's no shade in the cornfields, 
> and the last 10km of those 40km were on a gravel path. She showed no sign 
> of effort at that speed. 
>
> In 3 months she rode the equivalent of what I would consider 3 good years 
> worth of biking. Maybe my favorite stat ... 630,000 feet of climbing.
>
> Mind-boggling.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee WI USA
>

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Re: [RBW] Puzzled by 2 Rivendell recommendations

[Bill Lindsay]

We were expressing our opinions of elegance.  I think there's significant 
appeal across the board when there is a bike part X that replaces bike part 
Y and does the same job with a lot less required maintenance.  The example 
most of us have experienced is the sealed BB unit.  Introduced in the 
1990s, a nice sealed BB unit is cheap, simple to install and basically 
maintenance free until the bearings need replacement.  One could spin 
things and say "sealed BB's are practical for people who don't maintain 
their bikes", but their appeal is a lot broader than that.  People who just 
like "annual BB overhaul" taken off their list of things to maintain also 
feel a benefit.  I would venture the guess that virtually every iBob has 
used a sealed BB of some kind and likes it.  I would venture very few 
iBob's seek out ball and cup BB's for every bike in their stable.  In my 
opinion, premier ball and cup BB's are awesome, but I don't mind there 
being a cheap and low maintenance alternative.  I maintain my bikes, but I 
don't mind being relieved of some of the maintenance tasks.  

Similar to a sealed BB, I think a belt does the same job as a chain on 
single-ring single-cog builds.  Like a sealed BB, a belt basically requires 
no maintenance.  So if you prefer to maintain your bike over doing anything 
else in life, like riding your bike, or reading a book, or posting on iBob, 
then the loss of that job on your list may be a loss.  For everybody else, 
less maintenance is a win.  Add to that silent operation, and it's far 
cleaner, and the belts last 10,000 miles or more, and the cogs and rings 
last even longer than that.  Add to that the wattage PENALTY of a belt is 
~1Watt at LOW power levels.  That PENALTY goes to zero and becomes a power 
BENEFIT over a chain at ~200W of power.  

The list of features of a belt were what prompted me to respond to Patrick 
Moore's expressed opinion of elegance.  

So what do you think?  Do you think an IGH with a belt is more elegant than 
an IGH with a chain?  Do you agree with Patrick Moore that *any* IGH bike 
is "far more elegant" than any derailleur equipped bike?  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 12:50:03 PM UTC-7 ian m wrote:

> Belt drive is extremely practical for people who don't *care *for 
> drivetrain maintenance. I maintain all my (and wife's) bikes and am 
> overjoyed with the IGH and belt drive on my Omnium cargo.
> Not to mention the beautiful silence that accompanies riding with it. 
>
> On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 3:26:39 PM UTC-4 Ray Varella wrote:
>
>> Belts would likely be well received if more bikes were built to 
>> accommodate them. 
>> A belt with an IGH be extremely practical for people who don’t maintain 
>> their bikes. 
>> Children’s bikes, commuter bikes and occasional use bikes that get stored 
>> outside would benefit. 
>>
>> MHO
>> Ray
>>
>> On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 11:19:47 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> "elegant IMO"
>>>
>>> Elegance certainly is in the eye of the beholder.  Even if you think 
>>> your derailleur-equipped bike(s) are inelegant, I think they are 
>>> equivalently elegant to your IGH bike(s).  I think they are all valid and 
>>> equivalently elegant ways to realize a build.  
>>>
>>> Pushing it to the limit of *Opinion*, in the IMO department, I'm 
>>> becoming convinced that chains are primarily good for being derailed. 
>>>  Shiftability is the core attribute of contemporary chains.  For me, if 
>>> you've got a drive train with no derailleurs, the preferable setup, in the 
>>> IMO elegance department is a BELT.  A belt is a purpose built optimized 
>>> object for a no-derailleur setup.  So, for optimal elegance (IMO), an IGH 
>>> build should be a belt build.  IMO.  
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 4:52:56 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 Yes to the IGH; far more elegant IMO than a FD and a chain tensioner 
 not to mention the multiple chainrings. But the defect of IGHs is the 
 choice of ratios, drag -- if you choose a wider-range, more-ratios hub the 
 internal friction increases, and if you choose the lowest drag options 
 (several tests have shown that the basic SA 3 speed hubs have no more 
 drag, 
 or even a wee bit less drag, overall, than derailleur systems), you are 
 limited to the more basic 2 and 3 speed hubs which have very limited range.

 But if you can get by with limited ratios, they're worth considering. 
 I've built very usable all-rounder beaters with the venerable, durable, 
 and 
 in fact ineradicable AW, and the nice thing is that the these are very 
 available, very cheap -- old units are about $50 on eBay and older ones, 
 even the 114 mm OL ones, will work fine with 120 mm frames. I've set mine 
 up with 3d/high/overdrive for pavement cruising with about a 72" gear, 
 2nd/direct at about 54", and 1st/low/underdrive a

[RBW] Re: For the N+1 group

[Bill Lindsay]

I get the joke and the joke is funny, but it doesn't quite apply to the way 
I operate anymore.  I've got a big stable, and it's still growing, and I 
have other projects I want to do, so the "IN" door is still open.  I'm not 
at the place in my life where I take in all free or irresistibly cheap 
bikes.  I used to be there.  I'm also not at the place in my life where I 
take in all bikes that I calculate I can flip and make money.  I used to be 
there, too.  

So, if my wife asked me that question: "how many bicycles do you need?", 
then I would probably say "One at a time".  Many "Camera people" have lots 
of camera equipment. Many people who build their identity around fishing 
have a lot of fishing equipment.  Many musicians have a substantial 
collection of various musical equipment.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 11:43:30 AM UTC-7 Ray Varella wrote:

> How many can relate to this?

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Re: [RBW] Orthos

[Ryan Ogilvie]

My view is that the single bolt clamps just don’t have a sufficient clamping 
force to keep the Orthos from slipping. Even if you tighten it so it stays put, 
you’ve over-torqued the fastener which can lead to bad summer teeth (some’r 
her, some’r there). A four bolt plate should work, tho. 


Sent from my mobile device. 

> On Sep 13, 2024, at 5:04 PM, Andrew Joseph  wrote:
> 
> Bars slippage reports came in at an interesting point for me.  
> 
> What was the consensus on getting them to stay put?  
> 
> The Sam rebuild is almost there.  Orthos will be angle down slightly more, 
> bar tape and need longer dynamo wires for the Pass and Stow….
> 
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> <74794438703__82188608-16AC-4C68-BCF1-EB91D8A9A83B.heic>
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Re: [RBW] Puzzled by 2 Rivendell recommendations

[Eric White]

The silence is very nice, most of the time, but when I ride my commuter
with IGH and belt in the rain, I get a bit of wet belt squeak. It's not
intolerable, but it's not silent either.

On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 2:50 PM ian m  wrote:

> Belt drive is extremely practical for people who don't *care *for
> drivetrain maintenance. I maintain all my (and wife's) bikes and am
> overjoyed with the IGH and belt drive on my Omnium cargo.
> Not to mention the beautiful silence that accompanies riding with it.
>
> On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 3:26:39 PM UTC-4 Ray Varella wrote:
>
>> Belts would likely be well received if more bikes were built to
>> accommodate them.
>> A belt with an IGH be extremely practical for people who don’t maintain
>> their bikes.
>> Children’s bikes, commuter bikes and occasional use bikes that get stored
>> outside would benefit.
>>
>> MHO
>> Ray
>>
>> On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 11:19:47 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> "elegant IMO"
>>>
>>> Elegance certainly is in the eye of the beholder.  Even if you think
>>> your derailleur-equipped bike(s) are inelegant, I think they are
>>> equivalently elegant to your IGH bike(s).  I think they are all valid and
>>> equivalently elegant ways to realize a build.
>>>
>>> Pushing it to the limit of *Opinion*, in the IMO department, I'm
>>> becoming convinced that chains are primarily good for being derailed.
>>> Shiftability is the core attribute of contemporary chains.  For me, if
>>> you've got a drive train with no derailleurs, the preferable setup, in the
>>> IMO elegance department is a BELT.  A belt is a purpose built optimized
>>> object for a no-derailleur setup.  So, for optimal elegance (IMO), an IGH
>>> build should be a belt build.  IMO.
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 4:52:56 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 Yes to the IGH; far more elegant IMO than a FD and a chain tensioner
 not to mention the multiple chainrings. But the defect of IGHs is the
 choice of ratios, drag -- if you choose a wider-range, more-ratios hub the
 internal friction increases, and if you choose the lowest drag options
 (several tests have shown that the basic SA 3 speed hubs have no more drag,
 or even a wee bit less drag, overall, than derailleur systems), you are
 limited to the more basic 2 and 3 speed hubs which have very limited range.

 But if you can get by with limited ratios, they're worth considering.
 I've built very usable all-rounder beaters with the venerable, durable, and
 in fact ineradicable AW, and the nice thing is that the these are very
 available, very cheap -- old units are about $50 on eBay and older ones,
 even the 114 mm OL ones, will work fine with 120 mm frames. I've set mine
 up with 3d/high/overdrive for pavement cruising with about a 72" gear,
 2nd/direct at about 54", and 1st/low/underdrive at about 41".

 Couple the AW with a double ring and you can split the gaps in the AW
 for a very usable 6-speed -- my second complete bike build circa 1971 had a
 "half stepped" AW, tho' I used 2 cogs instead of 2 rings.

 But even more exotic SA IGH are available on eBay; the wonderful AM
 medium ratio hub comes up from time to time at reasonable prices (I got
 mine for well under $200 each -- $150? -- IIRC in runnable condition) and
 again the 114 mm OL will fit 120 mm frames with only strategic
 anti-rotation washer selection and placement. And, it uses the ubiquitous
 AW trigger shifter. Direct, 15.5% overdrive, 0.8654% underdrive; mine are
 geared75/65/56". And the AM is reputed to be, like the AW, one of SA's most
 durable hubs.

 And even the pure gold ASC close ratio fixed 3 speed. I got my 2 very
 cheaply, $200 NOS and $150 used but VG. But these are much rarer; I was
 lucky.



 On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 1:19 PM Mackenzy Albright <
 mackenzy...@gmail.com> wrote:

> ... I think an internal real hub like a sturmey-archer 3 speed with a
> compact double crank and paul tensioner would be an incredible build
> Price aside the roaduno is the perfect candidate for some fun builds.
>
 --
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Re: [RBW] Puzzled by 2 Rivendell recommendations

[nlerner]

Well, I must have missed the shared definition of what “elegant” means. 
Seems the implication is that elegant is equivalent to simple or paired 
down, e.g., devoid of the complications of derailleurs and gear clusters or 
simple to maintain and service in Bill’s examples of cartridge BBs and belt 
drive. Elegant, to me, is more an aesthetic quality than a mechanical one, 
but that’s just me.

Neal Lerner
Brookline MA

On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 3:34:21 PM UTC-6 Eric White wrote:

> The silence is very nice, most of the time, but when I ride my commuter 
> with IGH and belt in the rain, I get a bit of wet belt squeak. It's not 
> intolerable, but it's not silent either.
>
> On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 2:50 PM ian m  wrote:
>
>> Belt drive is extremely practical for people who don't *care *for 
>> drivetrain maintenance. I maintain all my (and wife's) bikes and am 
>> overjoyed with the IGH and belt drive on my Omnium cargo.
>> Not to mention the beautiful silence that accompanies riding with it. 
>>
>> On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 3:26:39 PM UTC-4 Ray Varella wrote:
>>
>>> Belts would likely be well received if more bikes were built to 
>>> accommodate them. 
>>> A belt with an IGH be extremely practical for people who don’t maintain 
>>> their bikes. 
>>> Children’s bikes, commuter bikes and occasional use bikes that get 
>>> stored outside would benefit. 
>>>
>>> MHO
>>> Ray
>>>
>>> On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 11:19:47 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 "elegant IMO"

 Elegance certainly is in the eye of the beholder.  Even if you think 
 your derailleur-equipped bike(s) are inelegant, I think they are 
 equivalently elegant to your IGH bike(s).  I think they are all valid and 
 equivalently elegant ways to realize a build.  

 Pushing it to the limit of *Opinion*, in the IMO department, I'm 
 becoming convinced that chains are primarily good for being derailed.  
 Shiftability is the core attribute of contemporary chains.  For me, if 
 you've got a drive train with no derailleurs, the preferable setup, in the 
 IMO elegance department is a BELT.  A belt is a purpose built optimized 
 object for a no-derailleur setup.  So, for optimal elegance (IMO), an IGH 
 build should be a belt build.  IMO.  

 Bill Lindsay
 El Cerrito, CA



 On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 4:52:56 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Yes to the IGH; far more elegant IMO than a FD and a chain tensioner 
> not to mention the multiple chainrings. But the defect of IGHs is the 
> choice of ratios, drag -- if you choose a wider-range, more-ratios hub 
> the 
> internal friction increases, and if you choose the lowest drag options 
> (several tests have shown that the basic SA 3 speed hubs have no more 
> drag, 
> or even a wee bit less drag, overall, than derailleur systems), you are 
> limited to the more basic 2 and 3 speed hubs which have very limited 
> range.
>
> But if you can get by with limited ratios, they're worth considering. 
> I've built very usable all-rounder beaters with the venerable, durable, 
> and 
> in fact ineradicable AW, and the nice thing is that the these are very 
> available, very cheap -- old units are about $50 on eBay and older ones, 
> even the 114 mm OL ones, will work fine with 120 mm frames. I've set mine 
> up with 3d/high/overdrive for pavement cruising with about a 72" gear, 
> 2nd/direct at about 54", and 1st/low/underdrive at about 41".
>
> Couple the AW with a double ring and you can split the gaps in the AW 
> for a very usable 6-speed -- my second complete bike build circa 1971 had 
> a 
> "half stepped" AW, tho' I used 2 cogs instead of 2 rings.
>
> But even more exotic SA IGH are available on eBay; the wonderful AM 
> medium ratio hub comes up from time to time at reasonable prices (I got 
> mine for well under $200 each -- $150? -- IIRC in runnable condition) and 
> again the 114 mm OL will fit 120 mm frames with only strategic 
> anti-rotation washer selection and placement. And, it uses the ubiquitous 
> AW trigger shifter. Direct, 15.5% overdrive, 0.8654% underdrive; mine are 
> geared75/65/56". And the AM is reputed to be, like the AW, one of SA's 
> most 
> durable hubs.
>
> And even the pure gold ASC close ratio fixed 3 speed. I got my 2 very 
> cheaply, $200 NOS and $150 used but VG. But these are much rarer; I was 
> lucky.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 1:19 PM Mackenzy Albright <
> mackenzy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> ... I think an internal real hub like a sturmey-archer 3 speed with a 
>> compact double crank and paul tensioner would be an incredible build 
>> Price aside the roaduno is the perfect candidate for some fun builds.  
>>
> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are sub

[RBW] Re: For the N+1 group

[Garth]

How many bikes does one need ? 

That reminds of a classic CBS radio episode called "How Much Land Does A 
Man Need ?"
It's a about a rich man who has an insatiable appetite for more. So he 
comes to a Indian Chief who offers any man as much land as they can walk on 
in a day. So the rich man sets out and in his quest ignores all signals to 
eat, drink or rest. He's so determined for more, that he croaks while on 
his quest. 
The Chief is then asked, how much land does a man need ?
 "About six feet"
Ahahahahahahahaa !!! 

On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 5:13:48 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> I get the joke and the joke is funny, but it doesn't quite apply to the 
> way I operate anymore.  I've got a big stable, and it's still growing, and 
> I have other projects I want to do, so the "IN" door is still open.  I'm 
> not at the place in my life where I take in all free or irresistibly cheap 
> bikes.  I used to be there.  I'm also not at the place in my life where I 
> take in all bikes that I calculate I can flip and make money.  I used to be 
> there, too.  
>
> So, if my wife asked me that question: "how many bicycles do you need?", 
> then I would probably say "One at a time".  Many "Camera people" have lots 
> of camera equipment. Many people who build their identity around fishing 
> have a lot of fishing equipment.  Many musicians have a substantial 
> collection of various musical equipment.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 11:43:30 AM UTC-7 Ray Varella wrote:
>
>> How many can relate to this?
>
>

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[RBW] Re: CX 50/70 brakes?

[Garth]

If you like the brakes themselves simply use a basic Dia-Compe straddle 
carrier and straddle cable. Nothing beats them for simplicity and 
effectiveness, something Shimano engineers seem to have assumed they could 
improve. Not ! 

On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 4:22:50 PM UTC-4 Ron Cramer wrote:

> Thoughts? Love them or hate them?  I had them on my Atlantis. Took them 
> off. Couldn't get the straddle cable set up. Suggestions on setup? Thanks 
>

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Re: [RBW] Puzzled by 2 Rivendell recommendations

[Bill Lindsay]

Neal

Nobody gave a shared definition for elegant.  It's just opinions being 
shared.  Patrick Moore just shared the opinion that IGH bikes are far more 
elegant than derailleur bikes.  I responded that in my opinion, IGH bikes 
and derailleur bikes are equivalently elegant but an IGH bike is "max 
elegant" with a belt.  

It sounds like you agree that there are -OR- can be elegant IGH bikes and 
elegant derailleur bikes, because for you it's an aesthetic quality.  

BL in EC
On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 2:41:50 PM UTC-7 nlerner wrote:

> Well, I must have missed the shared definition of what “elegant” means. 
> Seems the implication is that elegant is equivalent to simple or paired 
> down, e.g., devoid of the complications of derailleurs and gear clusters or 
> simple to maintain and service in Bill’s examples of cartridge BBs and belt 
> drive. Elegant, to me, is more an aesthetic quality than a mechanical one, 
> but that’s just me.
>
> Neal Lerner
> Brookline MA
>
> On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 3:34:21 PM UTC-6 Eric White wrote:
>
>> The silence is very nice, most of the time, but when I ride my commuter 
>> with IGH and belt in the rain, I get a bit of wet belt squeak. It's not 
>> intolerable, but it's not silent either.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 2:50 PM ian m  wrote:
>>
>>> Belt drive is extremely practical for people who don't *care *for 
>>> drivetrain maintenance. I maintain all my (and wife's) bikes and am 
>>> overjoyed with the IGH and belt drive on my Omnium cargo.
>>> Not to mention the beautiful silence that accompanies riding with it. 
>>>
>>> On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 3:26:39 PM UTC-4 Ray Varella wrote:
>>>
 Belts would likely be well received if more bikes were built to 
 accommodate them. 
 A belt with an IGH be extremely practical for people who don’t maintain 
 their bikes. 
 Children’s bikes, commuter bikes and occasional use bikes that get 
 stored outside would benefit. 

 MHO
 Ray

 On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 11:19:47 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> "elegant IMO"
>
> Elegance certainly is in the eye of the beholder.  Even if you think 
> your derailleur-equipped bike(s) are inelegant, I think they are 
> equivalently elegant to your IGH bike(s).  I think they are all valid and 
> equivalently elegant ways to realize a build.  
>
> Pushing it to the limit of *Opinion*, in the IMO department, I'm 
> becoming convinced that chains are primarily good for being derailed.  
> Shiftability is the core attribute of contemporary chains.  For me, if 
> you've got a drive train with no derailleurs, the preferable setup, in 
> the 
> IMO elegance department is a BELT.  A belt is a purpose built optimized 
> object for a no-derailleur setup.  So, for optimal elegance (IMO), an IGH 
> build should be a belt build.  IMO.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>
>
> On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 4:52:56 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore 
> wrote:
>
>> Yes to the IGH; far more elegant IMO than a FD and a chain tensioner 
>> not to mention the multiple chainrings. But the defect of IGHs is the 
>> choice of ratios, drag -- if you choose a wider-range, more-ratios hub 
>> the 
>> internal friction increases, and if you choose the lowest drag options 
>> (several tests have shown that the basic SA 3 speed hubs have no more 
>> drag, 
>> or even a wee bit less drag, overall, than derailleur systems), you are 
>> limited to the more basic 2 and 3 speed hubs which have very limited 
>> range.
>>
>> But if you can get by with limited ratios, they're worth considering. 
>> I've built very usable all-rounder beaters with the venerable, durable, 
>> and 
>> in fact ineradicable AW, and the nice thing is that the these are very 
>> available, very cheap -- old units are about $50 on eBay and older ones, 
>> even the 114 mm OL ones, will work fine with 120 mm frames. I've set 
>> mine 
>> up with 3d/high/overdrive for pavement cruising with about a 72" gear, 
>> 2nd/direct at about 54", and 1st/low/underdrive at about 41".
>>
>> Couple the AW with a double ring and you can split the gaps in the AW 
>> for a very usable 6-speed -- my second complete bike build circa 1971 
>> had a 
>> "half stepped" AW, tho' I used 2 cogs instead of 2 rings.
>>
>> But even more exotic SA IGH are available on eBay; the wonderful AM 
>> medium ratio hub comes up from time to time at reasonable prices (I got 
>> mine for well under $200 each -- $150? -- IIRC in runnable condition) 
>> and 
>> again the 114 mm OL will fit 120 mm frames with only strategic 
>> anti-rotation washer selection and placement. And, it uses the 
>> ubiquitous 
>> AW trigger shifter. Direct, 15.5% overdrive, 0.8654% underdrive; mine 
>> are 
>> geared75/

[RBW] Re: Slipping on swept back handlebars

[Garth]

Nitto Technomic single bolt designs were never intended to use with such 
bars, it's just a matter of leverage, a long lever being held by a single 
bolt clamp. With 2 or 4 bolt stems you need no friction substances or 
heroic torque to get the bars to stay. 
On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 11:21:15 AM UTC-4 mcgr...@gmail.com wrote:

> I couldn't for the life of me get Ron's Ortho Bars to stop slipping.  I 
> switched them out for a Choco-moose and never looked back!  The -moose bars 
> are the perfect swept back system for rough terrain.
>
> On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 8:54:25 AM UTC-4 Bill S wrote:
>
>> This is probably not recommended, but I had a pair of choco bars that 
>> slipped a bit when I first put them on, and ended up using the old soda can 
>> shim trick and it's worked like a charm for about 2 years now.
>>
>> On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 2:33:31 AM UTC-4 ricksteves wrote:
>>
>>> Could always try a 25.4 clamp stem with the 26.0 diameter HBs - the 
>>> muscle it takes to get that clamp onto the wider HBs is more than enough to 
>>> keep it in place when riding.
>>>
>>> A faceplater stem is never a bad idea either, since 2 or 4 bolts is more 
>>> secure than 1.
>>>
>>> ~ NJD
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, September 10, 2024 at 12:45:45 PM UTC-6 Ethan VanValkenburg 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I just put some swept back handlebars on my bicycle and I am having 
 trouble with slipping. The handlebars sweep back 7 inches or so with a 
 26mm 
 clamp diameter. My stem is a nitto tallux and I'm switching in an old 
 130mm 
 Ritchey stem for more reach, but I'm still worried about the bar slipping. 
 Is there a good solution for gripping big bars that increase torque at the 
 stem clamp, especially when riding on gravel/off-road? 

 I might be able to tighten it more, but I'm worried that going tighter 
 will strip or deform the bolt. Do folks ever use thread-locker or some 
 adhesive for extra stick? Or do I need a 2-4 bolt faceplate stem for the 
 extra gripping strength?

 Let me know if you have any tips/tricks/ideas! Thanks,

 Ethan

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Puzzled by 2 Rivendell recommendations

[nlerner]

That seems an accurate summary to me, Bill, but this medium always puzzles 
me by its sharing of opinions without agreeing on terminology. You might 
guess I’m a pointy headed academic, which would be correct.

Neal Lerner
Brookline MA
On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 3:51:05 PM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Neal
>
> Nobody gave a shared definition for elegant.  It's just opinions being 
> shared.  Patrick Moore just shared the opinion that IGH bikes are far more 
> elegant than derailleur bikes.  I responded that in my opinion, IGH bikes 
> and derailleur bikes are equivalently elegant but an IGH bike is "max 
> elegant" with a belt.  
>
> It sounds like you agree that there are -OR- can be elegant IGH bikes and 
> elegant derailleur bikes, because for you it's an aesthetic quality.  
>
> BL in EC
> On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 2:41:50 PM UTC-7 nlerner wrote:
>
>> Well, I must have missed the shared definition of what “elegant” means. 
>> Seems the implication is that elegant is equivalent to simple or paired 
>> down, e.g., devoid of the complications of derailleurs and gear clusters or 
>> simple to maintain and service in Bill’s examples of cartridge BBs and belt 
>> drive. Elegant, to me, is more an aesthetic quality than a mechanical one, 
>> but that’s just me.
>>
>> Neal Lerner
>> Brookline MA
>>
>> On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 3:34:21 PM UTC-6 Eric White wrote:
>>
>>> The silence is very nice, most of the time, but when I ride my commuter 
>>> with IGH and belt in the rain, I get a bit of wet belt squeak. It's not 
>>> intolerable, but it's not silent either.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 2:50 PM ian m  wrote:
>>>
 Belt drive is extremely practical for people who don't *care *for 
 drivetrain maintenance. I maintain all my (and wife's) bikes and am 
 overjoyed with the IGH and belt drive on my Omnium cargo.
 Not to mention the beautiful silence that accompanies riding with it. 

 On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 3:26:39 PM UTC-4 Ray Varella wrote:

> Belts would likely be well received if more bikes were built to 
> accommodate them. 
> A belt with an IGH be extremely practical for people who don’t 
> maintain their bikes. 
> Children’s bikes, commuter bikes and occasional use bikes that get 
> stored outside would benefit. 
>
> MHO
> Ray
>
> On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 11:19:47 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> "elegant IMO"
>>
>> Elegance certainly is in the eye of the beholder.  Even if you think 
>> your derailleur-equipped bike(s) are inelegant, I think they are 
>> equivalently elegant to your IGH bike(s).  I think they are all valid 
>> and 
>> equivalently elegant ways to realize a build.  
>>
>> Pushing it to the limit of *Opinion*, in the IMO department, I'm 
>> becoming convinced that chains are primarily good for being derailed.  
>> Shiftability is the core attribute of contemporary chains.  For me, if 
>> you've got a drive train with no derailleurs, the preferable setup, in 
>> the 
>> IMO elegance department is a BELT.  A belt is a purpose built optimized 
>> object for a no-derailleur setup.  So, for optimal elegance (IMO), an 
>> IGH 
>> build should be a belt build.  IMO.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 4:52:56 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes to the IGH; far more elegant IMO than a FD and a chain tensioner 
>>> not to mention the multiple chainrings. But the defect of IGHs is the 
>>> choice of ratios, drag -- if you choose a wider-range, more-ratios hub 
>>> the 
>>> internal friction increases, and if you choose the lowest drag options 
>>> (several tests have shown that the basic SA 3 speed hubs have no more 
>>> drag, 
>>> or even a wee bit less drag, overall, than derailleur systems), you are 
>>> limited to the more basic 2 and 3 speed hubs which have very limited 
>>> range.
>>>
>>> But if you can get by with limited ratios, they're worth 
>>> considering. I've built very usable all-rounder beaters with the 
>>> venerable, 
>>> durable, and in fact ineradicable AW, and the nice thing is that the 
>>> these 
>>> are very available, very cheap -- old units are about $50 on eBay and 
>>> older 
>>> ones, even the 114 mm OL ones, will work fine with 120 mm frames. I've 
>>> set 
>>> mine up with 3d/high/overdrive for pavement cruising with about a 72" 
>>> gear, 
>>> 2nd/direct at about 54", and 1st/low/underdrive at about 41".
>>>
>>> Couple the AW with a double ring and you can split the gaps in the 
>>> AW for a very usable 6-speed -- my second complete bike build circa 
>>> 1971 
>>> had a "half stepped" AW, tho' I used 2 cogs instead of 2 rings.
>>>
>>> But even more exotic SA IGH are available on

Re: [RBW] Puzzled by 2 Rivendell recommendations

[nlerner]

I’ll also add that I have IGH bikes, I have single speeds, I have 
multiple-geared bikes using derailleur shifting (both index and friction), 
but I really don’t see any as “elegant” or some more elegant than others. 
Maybe compared to automobiles, they are, but that’s not the definition 
implied here.

Neal Lerner
Brookline MA

On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 4:03:46 PM UTC-6 nlerner wrote:

> That seems an accurate summary to me, Bill, but this medium always puzzles 
> me by its sharing of opinions without agreeing on terminology. You might 
> guess I’m a pointy headed academic, which would be correct.
>
> Neal Lerner
> Brookline MA
> On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 3:51:05 PM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Neal
>>
>> Nobody gave a shared definition for elegant.  It's just opinions being 
>> shared.  Patrick Moore just shared the opinion that IGH bikes are far more 
>> elegant than derailleur bikes.  I responded that in my opinion, IGH bikes 
>> and derailleur bikes are equivalently elegant but an IGH bike is "max 
>> elegant" with a belt.  
>>
>> It sounds like you agree that there are -OR- can be elegant IGH bikes and 
>> elegant derailleur bikes, because for you it's an aesthetic quality.  
>>
>> BL in EC
>> On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 2:41:50 PM UTC-7 nlerner wrote:
>>
>>> Well, I must have missed the shared definition of what “elegant” means. 
>>> Seems the implication is that elegant is equivalent to simple or paired 
>>> down, e.g., devoid of the complications of derailleurs and gear clusters or 
>>> simple to maintain and service in Bill’s examples of cartridge BBs and belt 
>>> drive. Elegant, to me, is more an aesthetic quality than a mechanical one, 
>>> but that’s just me.
>>>
>>> Neal Lerner
>>> Brookline MA
>>>
>>> On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 3:34:21 PM UTC-6 Eric White wrote:
>>>
 The silence is very nice, most of the time, but when I ride my commuter 
 with IGH and belt in the rain, I get a bit of wet belt squeak. It's not 
 intolerable, but it's not silent either.

 On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 2:50 PM ian m  wrote:

> Belt drive is extremely practical for people who don't *care *for 
> drivetrain maintenance. I maintain all my (and wife's) bikes and am 
> overjoyed with the IGH and belt drive on my Omnium cargo.
> Not to mention the beautiful silence that accompanies riding with it. 
>
> On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 3:26:39 PM UTC-4 Ray Varella wrote:
>
>> Belts would likely be well received if more bikes were built to 
>> accommodate them. 
>> A belt with an IGH be extremely practical for people who don’t 
>> maintain their bikes. 
>> Children’s bikes, commuter bikes and occasional use bikes that get 
>> stored outside would benefit. 
>>
>> MHO
>> Ray
>>
>> On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 11:19:47 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> "elegant IMO"
>>>
>>> Elegance certainly is in the eye of the beholder.  Even if you think 
>>> your derailleur-equipped bike(s) are inelegant, I think they are 
>>> equivalently elegant to your IGH bike(s).  I think they are all valid 
>>> and 
>>> equivalently elegant ways to realize a build.  
>>>
>>> Pushing it to the limit of *Opinion*, in the IMO department, I'm 
>>> becoming convinced that chains are primarily good for being derailed.  
>>> Shiftability is the core attribute of contemporary chains.  For me, if 
>>> you've got a drive train with no derailleurs, the preferable setup, in 
>>> the 
>>> IMO elegance department is a BELT.  A belt is a purpose built optimized 
>>> object for a no-derailleur setup.  So, for optimal elegance (IMO), an 
>>> IGH 
>>> build should be a belt build.  IMO.  
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 4:52:56 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Yes to the IGH; far more elegant IMO than a FD and a chain 
 tensioner not to mention the multiple chainrings. But the defect of 
 IGHs is 
 the choice of ratios, drag -- if you choose a wider-range, more-ratios 
 hub 
 the internal friction increases, and if you choose the lowest drag 
 options 
 (several tests have shown that the basic SA 3 speed hubs have no more 
 drag, 
 or even a wee bit less drag, overall, than derailleur systems), you 
 are 
 limited to the more basic 2 and 3 speed hubs which have very limited 
 range.

 But if you can get by with limited ratios, they're worth 
 considering. I've built very usable all-rounder beaters with the 
 venerable, 
 durable, and in fact ineradicable AW, and the nice thing is that the 
 these 
 are very available, very cheap -- old units are about $50 on eBay and 
 older 
 ones, even the 114 

[RBW] Re: No love for the Albastache?

[Garth]

Upon trying them I instantly realized I wanted more regular style drop bars 
instead, because they drop and have useful hand positions. 

On Tuesday, September 10, 2024 at 9:24:09 PM UTC-4 Bikie#4646 wrote:

> Thanks for reviving this ol' thread Will. You know how much I love seeing 
> your beautiful Cannondale regardless of handlebars. I happen to love the 
> moustache bars on two of my purpose-built bikes, my Sam Hillborne set up 
> for touring:
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikecrazy-paul/53726655932/in/album-72177720317070554
>  
> and my Homer Hilsen set up for mixed surface riding:
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikecrazy-paul/53896343476/in/album-72177720319279218
> I use the Nitto mountain stem on both; 100 mm for touring and 80 mm for 
> more aggressive riding.
> I find it interesting that I rarely see these bars used as I use them, 
> namely, with the ends dropped down a bit. I find this allows me to get 
> "aero" when I wish and offers plenty of positions. It still allows me to 
> stretch out on less-than-perfect surfaces, perhaps because I find it allows 
> better access to the brake hoods and levers.
> Paul Germain
> Midlothian, Va.
>
> On Friday, September 6, 2024 at 11:21:59 PM UTC-4 Will M wrote:
>
>> Revivin' an ol' thread!
>>
>> Thanks to all who contributed to this thread because it was about the 
>> only "review" 2-3 years ago when I was considering the Albastache.
>>
>> Some new reviews out:  On the "love" vs. "no love" question, did you see 
>> that Zack Gallardo recently posted a video review with urban/fixie street 
>> riding in Taichung, Taiwan using his Alba bars sans levers?  Good review of 
>> the Alba's pros/cons from the perspective of a strong/young cyclist (listen 
>> to "I could definitely do a century on these bars, but..." at time 5:00):  
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GhnUxfTakA
>>
>> Also recently: Russ/PathLessPedaled found the Alba worked better for him 
>> after he swapped out the aero levers for VO mtn brake levers:  
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1sVCUMy6rI.  I think I'd do this for my 
>> next commuter/city build. 
>>
>> In my case, I tried the Albastache for the last 2 years on my expedition 
>> touring bike 
>> .
>>  
>>  For the prior 25 years, the bike had drop bars (tops same height as 
>> saddle).  At first, I liked the Alba's upright position, but then it 
>> started feeling "too upright" (half the hand hand positions were simply too 
>> far back).  On a 63cm touring frame with 59cm top tube, the Albas made we 
>> want a longer top tube (like the modern Rivs) OR more seatpost setback OR 
>> more than 80mm reach in the Tallux stem.  Mostly, I missed my drop 
>> handlebars, for instance, in all-day headwinds in flat eastern-shore 
>> Maryland, or, say, when you want to PULL HARD on the brake hoods for 
>> hammering/sprinting/climbing (I never did figure out how to pull hard on 
>> these bars).  
>>
>> I put 48cm Noodles on the bike last month 
>>  
>> and... a... that's better.  Just me of course.
>>
>> No numbness or anything like that.  In fact, I like the upright riding 
>> position and will use them on my next city/commuter build.With Russ's 
>> mtn brake lever trick.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Will M
>>
>> On Saturday, September 18, 2021 at 9:43:51 PM UTC-4 Berkeleyan wrote:
>>
>>> One more... prompted by Will's email comment today of "properly set up 
>>> Albastache bars" for long road rides. I keep wondering about best brake 
>>> placement on these bars. In your opinion, does that mean brake levers are 
>>> approximately tangent to the same plane, as in Will's picture of the bike 
>>> they're sending to Philly bike expo? Or do your brakes fall further inside 
>>> (closer to stem) or outside?
>>>
>>> - Andrew, Berkeley
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Orthos

[Andrew Joseph]

Thanks Ryan!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 13, 2024, at 4:27 PM, Ryan Ogilvie  wrote:
> 
> My view is that the single bolt clamps just don’t have a sufficient clamping 
> force to keep the Orthos from slipping. Even if you tighten it so it stays 
> put, you’ve over-torqued the fastener which can lead to bad summer teeth 
> (some’r her, some’r there). A four bolt plate should work, tho.
> 
> 
> Sent from my mobile device.
> 
>> On Sep 13, 2024, at 5:04 PM, Andrew Joseph  wrote:
>> 
>> Bars slippage reports came in at an interesting point for me.  
>> 
>> What was the consensus on getting them to stay put?  
>> 
>> The Sam rebuild is almost there.  Orthos will be angle down slightly more, 
>> bar tape and need longer dynamo wires for the Pass and Stow….
>> 
>> --
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>> <74794438703__82188608-16AC-4C68-BCF1-EB91D8A9A83B.heic>
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
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[RBW] Re: new Crust Heartbreaker crankset: compact double, fun colors

[Johnny Alien]

Thats a stellar looking crankset!!

On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 5:54:16 PM UTC-4 in...@brentknepper.com 
wrote:

> from crust bikes, the bicycle company, end'a week email:
>
> "The Heartbreaker Crankset is our take on a slim arm compact double. We 
> drew from the classic Ritchey Logic cranksets to get the slim arm profile 
> with a high offset. The high offset in the arms makes it so you can run a 
> shorter bottom bracket than with most square taper cranks."
>
> it's a 2x 42/26 crank, 170 arm length only
> the big chainring's dedicated to the *inside* of a 110bcd spider and a 
> lil guy on 74bcd inner bolts. square taper and they recommend starting at 
> 110/113 spindle length. they say forged aluminum, curious if that's cold 
> forged or melt forged? cute heart cutouts ◡̈  silver/black, or blue 
> splatter ano or a rich brown, and minimal branding
>
> $240 though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 
> 
>
> [image: unnamed (7).jpg]
>
> outer chainring setup reminds me of like a mix of the Dixna LA crank 
> spider and the Bikingreen chainrings inner offset, with added hearts, but 
> the arm shape is hella similar to ol ritchey logiq cranks. wonder what the 
> chainline is like on a 110 spindle? prolly can't run these as a triple but 
> there's at least one person coming to mind who might take that as a 
> challenge
>
> anyway: fun! interesting! wild to think two new slim, silver, 110bcd 
> cranks are coming out in 2024 (these crustinis and the new riv silverers)
>
> also these are probably the antithesis of all the low-Q experimentations 
> going on in the rbw/ibob goog-group world :)
>
> -Brent, hudval, still chaotically puttin JIS triples on 102mm campy BBs jff
>

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Re: [RBW] Orthos

[Mackenzy Albright]

That is a gorgeous bike! I think the vast majority don't have issues with 
slipping. I wouldn't worry about it UNLESS you have an issue which may be 
partially riding style and habits...I think the main points from the other 
thread are to make sure your stem bolt is greased and you use adequate 
torque to prevent slip but also not so much torque that you over-tighten as 
it could ovalize the bar since it's thin. 

On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 3:16:14 PM UTC-7 drew.jo...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Thanks Ryan!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Sep 13, 2024, at 4:27 PM, Ryan Ogilvie  wrote:
> > 
> > My view is that the single bolt clamps just don’t have a sufficient 
> clamping force to keep the Orthos from slipping. Even if you tighten it so 
> it stays put, you’ve over-torqued the fastener which can lead to bad summer 
> teeth (some’r her, some’r there). A four bolt plate should work, tho.
> > 
> > 
> > Sent from my mobile device.
> > 
> >> On Sep 13, 2024, at 5:04 PM, Andrew Joseph  
> wrote:
> >> 
> >> Bars slippage reports came in at an interesting point for me. 
> >> 
> >> What was the consensus on getting them to stay put? 
> >> 
> >> The Sam rebuild is almost there. Orthos will be angle down slightly 
> more, bar tape and need longer dynamo wires for the Pass and Stow….
> >> 
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/E5A55ABF-0A4D-4971-ACE0-35F6B082890A%40gmail.com
> .
> >> <74794438703__82188608-16AC-4C68-BCF1-EB91D8A9A83B.heic>
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> 
> >> --
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[RBW] Re: No love for the Albastache?

[Mackenzy Albright]

I still truly believe the choco-moose bar feels exactly how I expected the 
albastash bar to feel and function. It's my favorite *slightly* aggressive 
but comfortable swept back bar. I could never quite dial in the albastache 
despite loving the aesthetics. 

On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 3:14:38 PM UTC-7 Garth wrote:

> Upon trying them I instantly realized I wanted more regular style drop 
> bars instead, because they drop and have useful hand positions. 
>
> On Tuesday, September 10, 2024 at 9:24:09 PM UTC-4 Bikie#4646 wrote:
>
>> Thanks for reviving this ol' thread Will. You know how much I love seeing 
>> your beautiful Cannondale regardless of handlebars. I happen to love the 
>> moustache bars on two of my purpose-built bikes, my Sam Hillborne set up 
>> for touring:
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikecrazy-paul/53726655932/in/album-72177720317070554
>>  
>> and my Homer Hilsen set up for mixed surface riding:
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikecrazy-paul/53896343476/in/album-72177720319279218
>> I use the Nitto mountain stem on both; 100 mm for touring and 80 mm for 
>> more aggressive riding.
>> I find it interesting that I rarely see these bars used as I use them, 
>> namely, with the ends dropped down a bit. I find this allows me to get 
>> "aero" when I wish and offers plenty of positions. It still allows me to 
>> stretch out on less-than-perfect surfaces, perhaps because I find it allows 
>> better access to the brake hoods and levers.
>> Paul Germain
>> Midlothian, Va.
>>
>> On Friday, September 6, 2024 at 11:21:59 PM UTC-4 Will M wrote:
>>
>>> Revivin' an ol' thread!
>>>
>>> Thanks to all who contributed to this thread because it was about the 
>>> only "review" 2-3 years ago when I was considering the Albastache.
>>>
>>> Some new reviews out:  On the "love" vs. "no love" question, did you see 
>>> that Zack Gallardo recently posted a video review with urban/fixie street 
>>> riding in Taichung, Taiwan using his Alba bars sans levers?  Good review of 
>>> the Alba's pros/cons from the perspective of a strong/young cyclist (listen 
>>> to "I could definitely do a century on these bars, but..." at time 5:00):  
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GhnUxfTakA
>>>
>>> Also recently: Russ/PathLessPedaled found the Alba worked better for him 
>>> after he swapped out the aero levers for VO mtn brake levers:  
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1sVCUMy6rI.  I think I'd do this for 
>>> my next commuter/city build. 
>>>
>>> In my case, I tried the Albastache for the last 2 years on my 
>>> expedition touring bike 
>>> .
>>>  
>>>  For the prior 25 years, the bike had drop bars (tops same height as 
>>> saddle).  At first, I liked the Alba's upright position, but then it 
>>> started feeling "too upright" (half the hand hand positions were simply too 
>>> far back).  On a 63cm touring frame with 59cm top tube, the Albas made we 
>>> want a longer top tube (like the modern Rivs) OR more seatpost setback OR 
>>> more than 80mm reach in the Tallux stem.  Mostly, I missed my drop 
>>> handlebars, for instance, in all-day headwinds in flat eastern-shore 
>>> Maryland, or, say, when you want to PULL HARD on the brake hoods for 
>>> hammering/sprinting/climbing (I never did figure out how to pull hard on 
>>> these bars).  
>>>
>>> I put 48cm Noodles on the bike last month 
>>>  
>>> and... a... that's better.  Just me of course.
>>>
>>> No numbness or anything like that.  In fact, I like the upright riding 
>>> position and will use them on my next city/commuter build.With Russ's 
>>> mtn brake lever trick.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Will M
>>>
>>> On Saturday, September 18, 2021 at 9:43:51 PM UTC-4 Berkeleyan wrote:
>>>
 One more... prompted by Will's email comment today of "properly set up 
 Albastache bars" for long road rides. I keep wondering about best brake 
 placement on these bars. In your opinion, does that mean brake levers are 
 approximately tangent to the same plane, as in Will's picture of the bike 
 they're sending to Philly bike expo? Or do your brakes fall further inside 
 (closer to stem) or outside?

 - Andrew, Berkeley

>>>

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[RBW] Re: new Crust Heartbreaker crankset: compact double, fun colors

[Bill Lindsay]

those that fret will fret about the odd big ring.  It doesn't look 
interchangeable with anything else, and I don't particularly trust Crust to 
have replacement rings years down the road.  I trust Rene Herse to stock 
rings.  I trust White Industries to stock VBC rings.  

BL in EC

On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 3:22:28 PM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:

> Thats a stellar looking crankset!!
>
> On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 5:54:16 PM UTC-4 in...@brentknepper.com 
> wrote:
>
>> from crust bikes, the bicycle company, end'a week email:
>>
>> "The Heartbreaker Crankset is our take on a slim arm compact double. We 
>> drew from the classic Ritchey Logic cranksets to get the slim arm profile 
>> with a high offset. The high offset in the arms makes it so you can run a 
>> shorter bottom bracket than with most square taper cranks."
>>
>> it's a 2x 42/26 crank, 170 arm length only
>> the big chainring's dedicated to the *inside* of a 110bcd spider and a 
>> lil guy on 74bcd inner bolts. square taper and they recommend starting at 
>> 110/113 spindle length. they say forged aluminum, curious if that's cold 
>> forged or melt forged? cute heart cutouts ◡̈  silver/black, or blue 
>> splatter ano or a rich brown, and minimal branding
>>
>> $240 though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 
>> 
>>
>> [image: unnamed (7).jpg]
>>
>> outer chainring setup reminds me of like a mix of the Dixna LA crank 
>> spider and the Bikingreen chainrings inner offset, with added hearts, but 
>> the arm shape is hella similar to ol ritchey logiq cranks. wonder what the 
>> chainline is like on a 110 spindle? prolly can't run these as a triple but 
>> there's at least one person coming to mind who might take that as a 
>> challenge
>>
>> anyway: fun! interesting! wild to think two new slim, silver, 110bcd 
>> cranks are coming out in 2024 (these crustinis and the new riv silverers)
>>
>> also these are probably the antithesis of all the low-Q experimentations 
>> going on in the rbw/ibob goog-group world :)
>>
>> -Brent, hudval, still chaotically puttin JIS triples on 102mm campy BBs 
>> jff
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: 53cm Bridgestone RB-T $325 plus shipping

[Greg J]

Great price for a great bike!  This would fit me perfectly but I have no 
room in the garage

On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 2:41:56 PM UTC-7 David Hays wrote:

> t's time to thin the herd. I have a Bridgestone RB-T. I'm not sure what 
> year it is but it has no rack braze-ons. I have fit a Pletscher rear rack- 
> the deluxe one Rivendell sold with the pannier mounts- and a VO front rack 
> with the decaleur mount. I have it set up with the original Nitto Mustache 
> bar, Shimano bar end shifters and a black Brooks B17 in good shape. It has 
> almost new H Plus Son rims and Jack Brown Green tires. There are some gaps 
> in the decals and there are plenty of chips in the paint but not dents or 
> rust. It just spends too much time on the hook. I can send more photos. Let 
> me know if you think my price is out of line. Thanks.
> David Hays
> Buffalo, New York
>
> [image: RB-T 1.jpg]
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Orthos

[Andrew Joseph]

Thank you! I’m glad you like my interpretation so far.  Will send the finished project…Noted on the stem. Hopefully, it won’t be an issue.Cheers,DrewSent from my iPhoneOn Sep 13, 2024, at 5:48 PM, Mackenzy Albright  wrote:That is a gorgeous bike! I think the vast majority don't have issues with slipping. I wouldn't worry about it UNLESS you have an issue which may be partially riding style and habits...I think the main points from the other thread are to make sure your stem bolt is greased and you use adequate torque to prevent slip but also not so much torque that you over-tighten as it could ovalize the bar since it's thin. On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 3:16:14 PM UTC-7 drew.jo...@gmail.com wrote:Thanks Ryan!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 13, 2024, at 4:27 PM, Ryan Ogilvie  wrote:
> 
> My view is that the single bolt clamps just don’t have a sufficient clamping force to keep the Orthos from slipping. Even if you tighten it so it stays put, you’ve over-torqued the fastener which can lead to bad summer teeth (some’r her, some’r there). A four bolt plate should work, tho.
> 
> 
> Sent from my mobile device.
> 
>> On Sep 13, 2024, at 5:04 PM, Andrew Joseph  wrote:
>> 
>> Bars slippage reports came in at an interesting point for me.  
>> 
>> What was the consensus on getting them to stay put?  
>> 
>> The Sam rebuild is almost there.  Orthos will be angle down slightly more, bar tape and need longer dynamo wires for the Pass and Stow….
>> 
>> --
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>> <74794438703__82188608-16AC-4C68-BCF1-EB91D8A9A83B.heic>
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
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> 
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[RBW] WTB: 50cm Platypus

[Keith P.]

I am usually lothe to make such requests on The Bunch, but my fears that 
the new batch of Platypus would have downtube bosses was confirmed today, 
and I thought maybe there might be sweet-baby small boy in someone's 
garage, that was in need of relocation. 

The added downtube bosses are a small thing that I could probably live 
with, but I'll never use them, and ya know... the small things are big 
things.

Anyway, I am looking for 50cm Platypus preferably in Mermaid or Sergio 
Green... something like that. (Birthday surprise for the missus)

Please DM me if you have a line on a loose one.
Thank you!

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[RBW] Re: "Rivendell Custom"

[Corwin Zechar]

Point of clarification...

The price of a new custom is currently $5K. I agree that the price for this 
frame is high - especially given much of the value of a custom frame is in 
the fidelity to the sizing and riding of the person the frame was designed 
for. I paid $2700 for my first custom about fifteen years ago (stolen April 
2021). Paid more than $5K (Nobilette did some lug carving) for it's 
replacement earlier this year.

Regards,


Corwin

On Thursday, September 12, 2024 at 11:24:14 PM UTC-7 John Johnson wrote:

> I've got no personal problem if someone wants to sell their bike frame, 
> but I find it an odd marketing strategy to publish poorly lit photos and a 
> very limited description while asking close to what a new custom frame 
> would cost. Good luck to them.
>
> On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 4:50:49 AM UTC+2 jerry...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Not mine, and no affiliation...  
>>
>>
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/326267399349?_nkw=rivendell&itmmeta=01J7MMBCG047TN7N8NP8RPZGMN&hash=item4bf70d6cb5:g:ilgAAOSw5s1m427V&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJ8HoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKnREAY8pPh5kA7ur1P59Dxg0WcvD3GUbv0cDHD8%2F3izZbY1o3Tib%2FXHYO3N4sNApbv%2FLHtx4HeqSJbFrccwMVnsrXAu9BheMyWZo%2BqrzC9LNQko2wFUADpWVhG7IQYTcMVxX7eGe0LMSFKjzIoebgBUkqKhUhZnNunacL9FInlu981dPRLI9ENYTM9L3bAhn7AxXBNJRmp321KqqBWqU8Ce7V1AHJ31ITTfsuwC9xtMYBuijIcQbxd8iI%2Fl0hs3WWKlDqo9Ys88ulfMnC3y2Lo2BYl1ZnjdKoJJZNfk16RH%2Bg%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR4jIrZS9ZA&edge=1
>> [image: 01.jpg]
>> [image: 011.jpg]
>>
>

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[RBW] New Bike (for me) Day! #BofurBike Lives!

[Nathan Mattia]

For the last year, I’ve found myself with a Sam Hillborne that felt a bit 
redundant given my other two bikes in the stable: a ‘94 RB-T and an ‘87 
Miyata 1000LT. 


 I love my Samwise, but it’s the most middle of the road of all of Riv’s 
offerings, and I’ve been itching to try out one of their bikes with the 
crazy chain stays.


https://www.flickr.com/photos/182771520@N04/shares/89d92GS755


 I picked up this 51cm Joe App from a guy who was stepping into a Saluki 
and didn’t need something as stout. Serendipity? Yes.  And a willingness to 
wait a long time.


Here’s the build at the moment:

-Billie Bars w Party Pace foam grips

-Shimano levers and thumbies

-12cm Nitto stem

-Nitto Front Rack w Wald 37 basket and SON lamp

-650b Velocity wheels with Dynamo front hub and Panaracers (soon to be 
upgraded to RH Switchback Pass)

-VO Rando 165 Double Cranks

-MKS Lambda Pedals

-Pederson designed Suntour  SE XC Cantilever Brakes

-Ultegra Front Derailleur 

-Shimano XTR Rapid Rise Rear derailleur

-Pletscher double kickstand

-Nifty Newbaum’s harlequin wrap and sweet custom #Bofur Beadwork by Matt 
@HoboHubWorks

-Brooks B67 saddle in Honey


First big ride tomorrow, but rode it down to the gym today and it rides 
like a Riv.  

Can’t wait to get some bigger tires though!


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[RBW] Re: 53cm Bridgestone RB-T $325 plus shipping

[Nathan Mattia]

Great price in the perfect size!  Looks like you have a ‘91 there.

On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 7:25:52 PM UTC-5 Greg J wrote:

> Great price for a great bike!  This would fit me perfectly but I have no 
> room in the garage
>
> On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 2:41:56 PM UTC-7 David Hays wrote:
>
>> t's time to thin the herd. I have a Bridgestone RB-T. I'm not sure what 
>> year it is but it has no rack braze-ons. I have fit a Pletscher rear rack- 
>> the deluxe one Rivendell sold with the pannier mounts- and a VO front rack 
>> with the decaleur mount. I have it set up with the original Nitto Mustache 
>> bar, Shimano bar end shifters and a black Brooks B17 in good shape. It has 
>> almost new H Plus Son rims and Jack Brown Green tires. There are some gaps 
>> in the decals and there are plenty of chips in the paint but not dents or 
>> rust. It just spends too much time on the hook. I can send more photos. Let 
>> me know if you think my price is out of line. Thanks.
>> David Hays
>> Buffalo, New York
>>
>> [image: RB-T 1.jpg]
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: new Crust Heartbreaker crankset: compact double, fun colors

[ian m]

What makes a 110bcd chainring proprietary? Is it that the stock ring seems 
to have shoulders pushing the chainline inbound? Do you think it is not 
compatible with any other 100bcd ring?


On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 9:30:03 PM UTC-4 Russell Duncan wrote:

> [image: IMG_0409.png]
>
> Sorry Crust, but my next choice for a 110 crankset will be the TA Carmina 
> Compact. That Crust looks good at first but I agree with Bill Lindsey, 
> the big ring looks to be too proprietary, and probably won’t be available 
> as time goes by. 
>
> Russell Duncan
> Connecticut River Valley, MA
>
> On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 6:05:47 PM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> those that fret will fret about the odd big ring.  It doesn't look 
>> interchangeable with anything else, and I don't particularly trust Crust to 
>> have replacement rings years down the road.  I trust Rene Herse to stock 
>> rings.  I trust White Industries to stock VBC rings.  
>>
>> BL in EC
>>
>> On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 3:22:28 PM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>
>>> Thats a stellar looking crankset!!
>>>
>>> On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 5:54:16 PM UTC-4 in...@brentknepper.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 from crust bikes, the bicycle company, end'a week email:

 "The Heartbreaker Crankset is our take on a slim arm compact double. We 
 drew from the classic Ritchey Logic cranksets to get the slim arm profile 
 with a high offset. The high offset in the arms makes it so you can run a 
 shorter bottom bracket than with most square taper cranks."

 it's a 2x 42/26 crank, 170 arm length only
 the big chainring's dedicated to the *inside* of a 110bcd spider and a 
 lil guy on 74bcd inner bolts. square taper and they recommend starting at 
 110/113 spindle length. they say forged aluminum, curious if that's cold 
 forged or melt forged? cute heart cutouts ◡̈  silver/black, or blue 
 splatter ano or a rich brown, and minimal branding

 $240 though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 
 

 [image: unnamed (7).jpg]

 outer chainring setup reminds me of like a mix of the Dixna LA crank 
 spider and the Bikingreen chainrings inner offset, with added hearts, but 
 the arm shape is hella similar to ol ritchey logiq cranks. wonder what the 
 chainline is like on a 110 spindle? prolly can't run these as a triple but 
 there's at least one person coming to mind who might take that as a 
 challenge

 anyway: fun! interesting! wild to think two new slim, silver, 110bcd 
 cranks are coming out in 2024 (these crustinis and the new riv silverers)

 also these are probably the antithesis of all the low-Q 
 experimentations going on in the rbw/ibob goog-group world :)

 -Brent, hudval, still chaotically puttin JIS triples on 102mm campy BBs 
 jff

>>>

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[RBW] Re: new Crust Heartbreaker crankset: compact double, fun colors

[Bill Lindsay]

*Is it that the stock ring seems to have shoulders pushing the chainline 
inbound?*  Yes, that's the main thing that I see.  Also, the countersink of 
any 42 "outer" will be on the wrong side.  A 42 "middle" will likely be 
countersunk correctly, and may have the shift aids in the right place, if 
the chain line and spacing work out.  This is all assuming one doesn't care 
about color matching.  Compatible "blue splatter" rings from other vendors 
are not likely.  If the inner runs on separate spacers, rather than 
forged-in posts, then I'd be more confident in my ability to make my own 
spacers to get things correct.

*Do you think it is not compatible with any other 100bcd ring?*  110bcd. 
 It's a possible maybe, in my view.  If I ever have one in my hands, it's 
the first thing I'd check.  If I was buying one, I'd call Crust and ask 
them, and maybe ask for a spare set of rings at purchase

Bill

On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 8:43:24 PM UTC-7 ian m wrote:

> What makes a 110bcd chainring proprietary? Is it that the stock ring seems 
> to have shoulders pushing the chainline inbound? Do you think it is not 
> compatible with any other 100bcd ring?
>
>
> On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 9:30:03 PM UTC-4 Russell Duncan wrote:
>
>> [image: IMG_0409.png]
>>
>> Sorry Crust, but my next choice for a 110 crankset will be the TA Carmina 
>> Compact. That Crust looks good at first but I agree with Bill Lindsey, 
>> the big ring looks to be too proprietary, and probably won’t be available 
>> as time goes by. 
>>
>> Russell Duncan
>> Connecticut River Valley, MA
>>
>> On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 6:05:47 PM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> those that fret will fret about the odd big ring.  It doesn't look 
>>> interchangeable with anything else, and I don't particularly trust Crust to 
>>> have replacement rings years down the road.  I trust Rene Herse to stock 
>>> rings.  I trust White Industries to stock VBC rings.  
>>>
>>> BL in EC
>>>
>>> On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 3:22:28 PM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>>
 Thats a stellar looking crankset!!

 On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 5:54:16 PM UTC-4 
 in...@brentknepper.com wrote:

> from crust bikes, the bicycle company, end'a week email:
>
> "The Heartbreaker Crankset is our take on a slim arm compact double. 
> We drew from the classic Ritchey Logic cranksets to get the slim arm 
> profile with a high offset. The high offset in the arms makes it so you 
> can 
> run a shorter bottom bracket than with most square taper cranks."
>
> it's a 2x 42/26 crank, 170 arm length only
> the big chainring's dedicated to the *inside* of a 110bcd spider and 
> a lil guy on 74bcd inner bolts. square taper and they recommend starting 
> at 
> 110/113 spindle length. they say forged aluminum, curious if that's cold 
> forged or melt forged? cute heart cutouts ◡̈  silver/black, or blue 
> splatter ano or a rich brown, and minimal branding
>
> $240 though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 
> 
>
> [image: unnamed (7).jpg]
>
> outer chainring setup reminds me of like a mix of the Dixna LA crank 
> spider and the Bikingreen chainrings inner offset, with added hearts, but 
> the arm shape is hella similar to ol ritchey logiq cranks. wonder what 
> the 
> chainline is like on a 110 spindle? prolly can't run these as a triple 
> but 
> there's at least one person coming to mind who might take that as a 
> challenge
>
> anyway: fun! interesting! wild to think two new slim, silver, 110bcd 
> cranks are coming out in 2024 (these crustinis and the new riv silverers)
>
> also these are probably the antithesis of all the low-Q 
> experimentations going on in the rbw/ibob goog-group world :)
>
> -Brent, hudval, still chaotically puttin JIS triples on 102mm campy 
> BBs jff
>


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[RBW] Re: 53cm Bridgestone RB-T $325 plus shipping

[Joe Bernard]

Agreed with Nathan that it's a '91 frame but the original Suntour 
components are missing. It's hard to see the lettering on the derailleurs 
but looks to be a 7-speed Shimano group of one LX variation or another, 
maybe a Sakae crank. As much as I cherish Suntour parts this conversion 
probably works great and will continue to for a couple more decades. Nice 
bike! 

Joe Bernard 
Clearlake CA 

On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 2:41:56 PM UTC-7 David Hays wrote:

> t's time to thin the herd. I have a Bridgestone RB-T. I'm not sure what 
> year it is but it has no rack braze-ons. I have fit a Pletscher rear rack- 
> the deluxe one Rivendell sold with the pannier mounts- and a VO front rack 
> with the decaleur mount. I have it set up with the original Nitto Mustache 
> bar, Shimano bar end shifters and a black Brooks B17 in good shape. It has 
> almost new H Plus Son rims and Jack Brown Green tires. There are some gaps 
> in the decals and there are plenty of chips in the paint but not dents or 
> rust. It just spends too much time on the hook. I can send more photos. Let 
> me know if you think my price is out of line. Thanks.
> David Hays
> Buffalo, New York
>
> [image: RB-T 1.jpg]
>
>

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