[RBW] Re: Coverting a Rivendell to Lower Trail

[iamkeith]

Group member René had both an Atlantis and a Hunquapillar with low trail forks. 
And I believe he shared experiences well.  If you use his name as part of the 
search terms, you'll probably find some good info and pics as well.

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[RBW] Finding out how a Bike's Performance Changes with Changes to Components

[Steve Cole]

John Hawrylak posted recently about converting a Riv Bike to low trail. 
 Joe Bernard replied that he had done this only to find out he did not like 
low trail and that it was a little costly to find this out.  Boy, did this 
resonate with me.

I have found it nearly impossible to understand the effect of a component 
change on my bike's performance without some, at least, modest investment, 
even when I do the work switching out parts myself.  While my most 
extensive experience relates to handlebars, I've also explored different 
wheel sizes, saddles, derailleurs, and assorted other components.  I'll 
share my handlebar experience because it seems instructive.

>From the time I was 16, I rode racing bikes.  It had always been clear to 
me, at least intellectually, that racing bike's drop handlebars, in 
addition to reducing wind resistance and increasing speed, offered great 
variation in hand position increasing the odds of finding comfort.  After 
45 years or so riding drops, the time came for me consider alternatives. 
 Much more of my future riding would be in the city and I believed and 
still believe upright positions offer better visibility and thus are safer. 
 I am also no longer as limber as I once was.  Over time, I found that, 
except on steep climbs, I almost never used the drops. I had been riding 
almost exclusively on the hoods or the crossbar.  My first "city bike" was 
a Scott Sub 20.  What a revelation.  The bars, Syncros, were almost flat 
and 640mm wide with a 10 degree sweep. They offered comfort like I had not 
felt before. Very importantly, they also seemed to offer better control.  I 
noticed that these flat and almost straight handlebars were more akin to 
most motorcycle handlebars than bicycle racing handlebars.  

After riding the Scott for a few years, I learned of Rivendell (and as 
importantly, Bicycle Quarterly and Compass Cycles).  I was an easy convert. 
 The only question I had was which Rivendell would be right for me. 
 Ultimately, I chose a Homer.  I bought a used Toyo Homer - 59cm, 700mm 
tires --  from someone on the list.  It came with racing bars, which I 
replaced, this time with Nitto Albatross bars, seemingly the preferred 
upright bar of the Riv community and often recommended by Riv as a great 
bar.  I rode my Homer with the Albatrosses for 5 years, a few thousand 
miles a year. Albatross bars have, according to www.whatbars.com, a 78 
degree sweep.  All the time I rode my Homer, which I love, I wondered 
whether I would have the comfort and control I had enjoyed on my Scott if I 
found a handlebar with much less sweep.

But which bar?  I spoke with friends and read the many entries on the topic 
in the RBW Owners Bunch listserve.  I read more of what I could find on the 
internet.  I considered the Jones, MAP Ahearne, several different Nitto 
bars and settled on the Nitto Bullmoose.  Unfortunately, I couldn't find 
anywhere I could try it out.  Most bike shops, in my experience, are not 
eager to trade out components to allow customers to experience the effect 
of the changes.  At best, they'll offer different bikes with different 
components to try.  Still, I had decided I wanted to try the Bullmooses. 
 To do this, I also had to use different shifters; the bar end shifters I 
used on with the Albatross bars wouldn't work with Bullmosse bars.  I 
searched for used Bullmooses without success so I ordered a new one from 
Rivendell.  I did find used Shimano XT 3x9 trigger shifters.  Together, 
with new grips, cables and cable housing, my investment to "try" this setup 
(I had a bike shop do the switch) exceeded $400.  This seemed like a hefty 
investment and there was the chance that, like Joe Bernard, I would find 
out it was a failed experiment, an expensive one at that.

One thing I love about the industry is the amazing array of choices in 
bikes and components.  I also love the the fact the barriers to entry into 
the industry are low -- innovation is everywhere and there are loads of 
tinkerers in their "garages" working on that next best idea, one that will 
improve everyone's cycling experience only if cyclists can learn about it 
firsthand. It just frustrates me no end, however, how hard and costly it 
can be to explore the choices available.  For most cyclists, you get what 
the industry's major players think you want or should want.  Understanding 
and especially experiencing available choices requires a bit of work and 
often an uncommonly accommodating bike shop.  More often than should be the 
case, in my view, the cost is not trivial and sometimes proves the negative 
-- one was better off before.  So my question is what can the bike industry 
do to help cyclists better understand the component choices they have and 
the effects on riding will be with different components?  

Sorry for running on so long.

Steve Cole
Arlington, Virginia

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[RBW] Coverting a Rivendell to Lower Trail

[Fullylugged]

Just changing the wheel size or forks with different rake will change your 
trail.  I found that converting my Road to 650B decreased the trail and it felt 
very squirrelly at first. Once used to it, I love the faster handling and have 
no trouble with it. My Ram still has the higher factory trail and "rides on 
rails" feel. I enjoy it too. 

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[RBW] Re: Coverting a Rivendell to Lower Trail

[Garth]

   This is worth reading 
 http://normaali.net/temp/Front-End-Geometry.pdf

 If you really want to do this and work with someone who experience adding 
a new fork on existing frames, and not just out of mere curiosity or 
thinking you can save a buck by not buying another frame that handles 
differently   it'll work out just fine. 



On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 3:13:07 PM UTC-4, John Hawrylak wrote:
>
> Has anyone converted a Rivendell to a lower trail front geometry?  If so, 
> did the change result in problems?   
>
> Was wondering if the laid back STA & HTA used on Rivendells has an affect 
> when going to a lower trail.
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: threadless stem/steerer question

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

Ha, of course, a properly spec’d seatpost shim would certainly be the most 
straight forward.  Thanks for sharing! It’s funny ‘cause I’ve previously looked 
for certain seatpost shim sizes only to find they don’t seem to exist... but 
never needed a 25.4 to 28.6 like this.  Because I’ve kind of given up on 
seatpost shims for anything other than 27.2 (whether to shim smaller post to 
27.2 seattube or 27.2 post to larger diameter seattube) it didn’t even occur to 
me to look for one at that spec.

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[RBW] Re: threadless stem/steerer question

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

I should add that this all interests me because of a tentative 1” threadless 
conversion of my own.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Coverting a Rivendell to Lower Trail

[bruce.herbit...@gmail.com]

 Thank for posting Garth. Interesting. My Waterford has 2 forks with different 
rakes and brakes that allow 2 wheel sizes. There is a definate difference in 
handling when you change any of those.
On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 7:25:31 AM CDT, Garth  
wrote:  
 
    This is worth reading  http://normaali.net/temp/Front-End-Geometry.pdf
 If you really want to do this and work with someone who experience adding a 
new fork on existing frames, and not just out of mere curiosity or thinking you 
can save a buck by not buying another frame that handles differently   
it'll work out just fine. 


On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 3:13:07 PM UTC-4, John Hawrylak wrote:
Has anyone converted a Rivendell to a lower trail front geometry?  If so, did 
the change result in problems?   
Was wondering if the laid back STA & HTA used on Rivendells has an affect when 
going to a lower trail.
John HawrylakWoodstown NJ




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[RBW] Re: For Sale in Seattle: Nitto, Nigel Smythe, Velo-Orange, Gran Bois, MB-3

[Bill Lindsay]

Rob

I didn't see any photos of the MB-3.  Your prospective buyer will certainly 
want to know the frame size so they can decide whether to reach out to you 
for more information.  

Bill

On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 10:11:06 PM UTC-7, Rob wrote:
>
> All items OBO, and plus the actual cost of the shipping method of your 
> choice, with local pickup in Seattle preferred. As always, if the price 
> seems out of line for the item, make me a reasonable offer. 
>
> Pics here: https://www.flickr.com/gp/robharrison/HaHy51
>>
>>
> *Nitto Mark’s Rack*. Designed by Mark at Rivendell, made by Nitto. Super 
> versatile. Can be mounted on the front to support a randonneur bag, or on 
> the rear to support a big rear saddlebag. $100.
>
> *Nitto Big Rear Rack*. The older version without the diagonal 
> cross-bracing. Nicer, IMO $150.
>
> *Tubus Fly Classic Rear Rack.* Stainless steel, narrow and sleek. $90.
>
> *Nitto S83 2-bolt Seatpost*. 27.2mm diameter, 200mm long. (50mm shorter 
> than the standard one you can get from Rivendell for $97.) Shows definite 
> evidence of use, but still beautiful and functions perfectly. $60. 
>  
> *Nitto Jaguar SP-72 Track 2-Bolt Seatpost*. Brand new, never been 
> mounted. 27.2mm. Please note: Rail mounting slots are narrower than 
> standard and ONLY fit track-style saddles. (I missed this!) $45.
>
> Rare *Nigel Smythe Tweed Trunk Sack*, excellent condition, with rain 
> cover. (Mark's Rack shown for scale, not included, but available 
> separately--also listed for sale here.) $100.
>
> *Velo-Orange Cigne Stem* Brand new. Mounted once, never ridden. Highly 
> polished version. 31.8mm clamp (use shims if you need 'em). 145mm from 
> bottom of stem to centerline of clamp. Similar to the Cunningham Limp Dick 
> stem Crust makes, but with a little less extension and the handy removable 
> face plate. And half the price, for this one. :) $60.
>
> *Gran Bois Randonneur bars*. About 37mm at the hoods. Just like the 
> current Compass bars, with the slight upsweep as the bar moves away from 
> the stem n’ all. SUPER comfortable, just like Jan says. A bit of goo from 
> bar tape, but I got most of it off. $75.
>
> *Bridgestone MB-3 *Not perfect, but nice. Currently set up as a drop-bar 
> single-speed, with the above-mentioned Gran Bois bars and a White 
> Industries Eccentric ENO hub laced to a wide mountain-bike rim. I have all 
> the original parts--rear wheel with 7-spd cassette, stem, chainrings, 
> Ritchey bars, thumbies, front and rear derailleurs. $350 for everything, 
> $250 for the original MB-3 only. 
>
>
> Rob in Seattle
>

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[RBW] Re: threadless stem/steerer question

[Drw]

So many good ideas. The seatpost shim is great thinking. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: The Rivendell Bike Weight Thread

[Ash]

Hi Edgar,

Joe is 51cm.

Atlantis feels more nimble and quicker to pick up speed.  Also relatively 
stiffer.  Joe A is more comfortable overall.  It seems to absorb road 
impressions better than my Atlantis.  Perhaps because the frame is slightly 
bigger.  The tubing might be thinner than Atlantis too.  Not sure.  Or 
maybe it is because of the fork design.  Or it might be the wheels (Atlas 
vs Cliffhangers).  Hard for me to tell.  Joe seems every so slightly 
flexier.   I enjoy it much better for longer rides.  On the other hand 
Atlantis feel more suited for loading up - that is relatively speaking.   
Because I have loaded Joe with over 50lbs on a few occasions.  Had no 
problems.  Atlantis feels ever so slightly more stable with weight.

hth,

Ash


On Saturday, 27 October 2018 15:35:13 UTC-7, ed wrote:
>
> Hi Ash,
> What size is your Appaloosa?
> How do you compare the ride with your MIT Atlantis?
> Edgar
>
> On 27 Oct 2018, at 11:24 PM, Ash > wrote:
>
>
> Here's my Joe A.  He's 34 lbs.
>
>
> On Saturday, 27 October 2018 08:21:59 UTC-7, Ash wrote:
>>
>> My MIT Atlantis 50cm as shown weighs 31 lbs.
>>
>> Brooks B67, those bulky Schwalbes and Velocity Cliffhangers are 
>> contributing all the extra ozs.   But for my use they are almost perfect. 
>>  Happy to peddle a bit extra weight and burn some extra calories while 
>> enjoying the luxurious ride they offer :)
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, 25 October 2018 19:18:27 UTC-7, Brian Campbell wrote:
>>>
>>> This custom from 2001 (62cm) weighs in at 22l lbs.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: The Rivendell Bike Weight Thread

[Lum Gim Fong]

JohnThe 858 i rode were all rivendell os tubing
Roadeo is 646 os

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[RBW] Re: Coverting a Rivendell to Lower Trail

[John Hawrylak]

Garth

Thanks for the BQ article.  Very informative.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 8:25:26 AM UTC-4, Garth wrote:
>
>This is worth reading  
> http://normaali.net/temp/Front-End-Geometry.pdf
>
>  If you really want to do this and work with someone who experience adding 
> a new fork on existing frames, and not just out of mere curiosity or 
> thinking you can save a buck by not buying another frame that handles 
> differently   it'll work out just fine. 
>
>
>
> On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 3:13:07 PM UTC-4, John Hawrylak wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone converted a Rivendell to a lower trail front geometry?  If so, 
>> did the change result in problems?   
>>
>> Was wondering if the laid back STA & HTA used on Rivendells has an affect 
>> when going to a lower trail.
>>
>> John Hawrylak
>> Woodstown NJ
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] WTB: Binder bolt

[Joe Bernard]

Needed for a NIB Appaloosa frame I just picked up (thanks, Dave!), no bolt in 
the box. I think it's an M6 (fits a 5mm Allen key), but I'm not good at knowing 
length and pitch for this type of thing for buying online. Anybody got an 
extra? I have the nut (and a too long bolt), just need the bolt. 

Thanks!
Joe Bernard

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[RBW] FS: Three Sackville Saddlesacks and two Nitto R-14 rear racks (with tombstone)

[Bill Lindsay]

I've got some extra rear saddlesacks that I would like to make available to 
you.  

1. Sackville Saddlesack Large, Olive.  I bought this from Rivendell in late 
2009.  It's the old original version with the metal badge and the original 
leather bottom.  It has some basic beausage but is in great shape.  I 
converted the closure to Captain Hook style.  No extra charge for the bag 
flair, but no discount if you take out the buttons and there are holes from 
the pins left behind.  $180 shipped.

2. Sackville Saddlesack Medium, Olive.  I bought this from Rivendell in 
maybe 2014.  It has the fabric label, not the metal badge, but it has the 
leather bottom.  I hardly used this bag at all, and perhaps never on a 
campout.  It's functionally as-new.  It has also been converted to Captain 
Hook closures.  $165 shipped

3. Sackville Saddlesack Medium, Sapphire. I bought this from Rivendell new 
and it's never been used.  I had a Sapphire blue ensemble that I was going 
to use on a particular build and ended up executing a different build.  The 
matching Sapphire blue Shopsack is now super beat up because I use it 
constantly.  This one has the newer fabric bottom.  $180 shipped.  

4. A Nitto R-14 Rear rack with tombstone.  I bought this when I bought bag 
#1 above.  It's been used a few times on a few different bikes. I just 
pulled it from the rear of my HubbuHubbuH tandem.  For now, I will only 
sell it along with bag #1 or bag #2.  I'll work with you on the struts you 
need.  $80 shipped along with the purchase of either bag #1 or bag #2

5. A new Nitto R-14 rear rack with tombstone.  I bought this new from Riv 
for setup with bag #2, but never got around to setting it up.  I'll work 
with you to get you the strut setup you need.  $90 shipped along with the 
purchase of either bag #1 or bag #2

If you don't understand why I'm only letting the racks go with a bag 
purchase, it's that the tombstone style R-14 is no longer available, and 
that is the best setup for the leather-bottom Sackvilles. If I'm keeping 
either of the leather bottom Sackvilles, I want to keep the R-14 to go with 
it. If the bags sell without racks, then I'll sell the racks separately.

FLICKR ALBUM of photos 


Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

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Re: [RBW] Re: The Rivendell Bike Weight Thread

[Jonathan D.]

I have a Joe and test rode the MIT atlantis. The MIT Atlantis actually reminded 
me of the Sam hillborne with the difference being 650B. I think it is the 
shorter top tube. Personally I preferred the MIT Atlantis with the shorter top 
tube and 650B to my current Joe. The Joe will probably go up for sale at some 
point. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: For Sale in Seattle: Nitto, Nigel Smythe, Velo-Orange, Gran Bois, MB-3

[Rob Harrison]

Good point! It’s a 1991 model, 21 1/2” center of crank to top of top tube, 
which I believe is how the sizes are listed in the catalog. 
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/1991/pages/bridgestone-1991-15.htm

I have everything that came stock with the bike except for the saddle, pedals 
and tires. 

I do need to provide more info. I’ll do a new separate post for the MB-3. 

Rob


> On Oct 28, 2018, at 7:10 AM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
> 
> Rob
> 
> I didn't see any photos of the MB-3.  Your prospective buyer will certainly 
> want to know the frame size so they can decide whether to reach out to you 
> for more information.  
> 
> Bill
> 
>> On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 10:11:06 PM UTC-7, Rob wrote:
>> All items OBO, and plus the actual cost of the shipping method of your 
>> choice, with local pickup in Seattle preferred. As always, if the price 
>> seems out of line for the item, make me a reasonable offer. 
>> 
>> Pics here: https://www.flickr.com/gp/robharrison/HaHy51
>> 
>> Nitto Mark’s Rack. Designed by Mark at Rivendell, made by Nitto. Super 
>> versatile. Can be mounted on the front to support a randonneur bag, or on 
>> the rear to support a big rear saddlebag. $100.
>> 
>> Nitto Big Rear Rack. The older version without the diagonal cross-bracing. 
>> Nicer, IMO $150.
>> 
>> Tubus Fly Classic Rear Rack. Stainless steel, narrow and sleek. $90.
>> 
>> Nitto S83 2-bolt Seatpost. 27.2mm diameter, 200mm long. (50mm shorter than 
>> the standard one you can get from Rivendell for $97.) Shows definite 
>> evidence of use, but still beautiful and functions perfectly. $60. 
>>  
>> Nitto Jaguar SP-72 Track 2-Bolt Seatpost. Brand new, never been mounted. 
>> 27.2mm. Please note: Rail mounting slots are narrower than standard and ONLY 
>> fit track-style saddles. (I missed this!) $45.
>> 
>> Rare Nigel Smythe Tweed Trunk Sack, excellent condition, with rain cover. 
>> (Mark's Rack shown for scale, not included, but available separately--also 
>> listed for sale here.) $100.
>> 
>> Velo-Orange Cigne Stem Brand new. Mounted once, never ridden. Highly 
>> polished version. 31.8mm clamp (use shims if you need 'em). 145mm from 
>> bottom of stem to centerline of clamp. Similar to the Cunningham Limp Dick 
>> stem Crust makes, but with a little less extension and the handy removable 
>> face plate. And half the price, for this one. :) $60.
>> 
>> Gran Bois Randonneur bars. About 37mm at the hoods. Just like the current 
>> Compass bars, with the slight upsweep as the bar moves away from the stem n’ 
>> all. SUPER comfortable, just like Jan says. A bit of goo from bar tape, but 
>> I got most of it off. $75.
>> 
>> Bridgestone MB-3 Not perfect, but nice. Currently set up as a drop-bar 
>> single-speed, with the above-mentioned Gran Bois bars and a White Industries 
>> Eccentric ENO hub laced to a wide mountain-bike rim. I have all the original 
>> parts--rear wheel with 7-spd cassette, stem, chainrings, Ritchey bars, 
>> thumbies, front and rear derailleurs. $350 for everything, $250 for the 
>> original MB-3 only. 
>> 
>> 
>> Rob in Seattle
> 
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[RBW] For Sale in Seattle: Nitto, Nigel Smythe, Velo-Orange, Gran Bois, MB-3

[Doug H.]

Rob, I’m not able to reply privately on my iPhone. Could you email me at 
dhansford1967 at gmail dot com?
Thanks,
Doug

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[RBW] WTB: Clem Smith L 52 Grilver

[Doug H.]

One bump only folks. If you bought the wrong size or have buyers regret I’m in 
the market. 
Doug

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Re: [RBW] Re: The Rivendell Bike Weight Thread

[John Hawrylak]

Lum

Glad to hear they we OS.  The 8-5-8 OS is same rigidity as 10-7-10 STD or 
like Columbus Tenax tubing.  The 6-4-6 OS is like 8-6-8 STD.  So a 0.1 mm 
wall decrease helps with the planning.

Just be careful of denting on the DT, J Heine claims walls of < 0.5mm tend 
to dent, especially the DT.

John Hawrylak

On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 2:33:09 PM UTC-4, Lum Gim Fong wrote:
>
> JohnThe 858 i rode were all rivendell os tubing
> Roadeo is 646 os

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Binder bolt

[DarinM]

Joe,

There is only one thread pitch for M6 bolts. You can use the too long bolt 
you have as long as it doesn't cause any other problems, like getting 
caught on you clothes. The bolt on my Atlantis is 22mm, which I'd bet works 
for just about every Riv ever and is available at every bike shop ever.

Darin

On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 12:21:43 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Needed for a NIB Appaloosa frame I just picked up (thanks, Dave!), no bolt 
> in the box. I think it's an M6 (fits a 5mm Allen key), but I'm not good at 
> knowing length and pitch for this type of thing for buying online. Anybody 
> got an extra? I have the nut (and a too long bolt), just need the bolt. 
>
> Thanks!
> Joe Bernard
>

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Binder bolt

[Joe Bernard]

This is helpful info. Thanks!

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[RBW] New Build: Yves Gomez - Drop Bar Mixte

[David B]

After trying some upright bars on a new-to-me 60cm Yves Gomez, I felt like 
the reach was shorter than ideal, especially compared to my Clem. So, I 
picked up a stem cheaply to go with some drop bars and got this set up this 
weekend.

The fit is pretty much spot on, and I think it ended up looking quite nice.

Still playing around with rack fits - a Rawland demi-porteur didn't work 
with Tektro brakes. 
Current rack is a VO constructeur front rack with Surly rack adaptor 
hardware to the mid/upper eyelets, so no fork crown attachment
It's solid though I cut the stays without looking at the level-ness of 
everything, just tried to get rack as close to headtube as possible. 
Really an aesthetic thing, it'll function just fine, and will get a Wald 
basket for now.
There's a dynamo hub in there, so still need to wire up a headlight.

Currently set up as a double/double with 42/39 chainrings and a 16/18 White 
Industries DOS freewheel. 
Tires are Soma Supple Vitesse EX 700 x 48mm, and they fit perfectly. 
I'll eventually switch to Compass Snoqualmie Pass Tires and fenders which 
should have adequate clearances.

Photos here: https://www.instagram.com/p/BpfTaowhqHT/

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[RBW] Ride Report: Little Silver Clem

[Doug H.]

Wow, makes me appreciate the little things about a bicycle. Thank you for 
sharing this awesome story and you obviously have a smart young man wise beyond 
his years on your hands Leah. 
Doug

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[RBW] Re: Ride Report: Little Silver Clem

[DarinM]

Great interview, sounds like he's hooked! He also seems very aware and 
grateful for the generosity that came his way. It's great to see a bike 
bringing such joy!

Darin

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[RBW] Re: FS/FT: Nitto, Tubus, VO, saddlebag support, Birkenstocks, Portola, Showers pass

[Drw]

EDIT:
Showers pass jacket is SMALL not medium

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[RBW] Re: Ride Report: Little Silver Clem

[C Sharp]

Lovely ride report, Leah! Thanks for sharing! I echo Doug's sentiments -- 
glad to know that someone like Ethan gets to enjoy such a bike!

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[RBW] Re: FS/FT: Nitto, Tubus, VO, saddlebag support, Birkenstocks, Portola, Showers pass

[Jonathan D.]

What is the length of the Cigne stem?

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[RBW] Re: FS/FT: Nitto, Tubus, VO, saddlebag support, Birkenstocks, Portola, Showers pass

[Drw]

90mm

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[RBW] Re: Finding out how a Bike's Performance Changes with Changes to Components

[LeRoy]

But wait, you've left us hanging! Your story had a fine beginning, an 
enticing middle, but no ending. What happened? How did the switch to 
Bullmoose bars suit you? I'll not be able to sleep tonight unless you run 
on a bit longer...

Leroy

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[RBW] New Build: Yves Gomez - Drop Bar Mixte

[Bill Lindsay]

APPROVE.  

BL in EC

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[RBW] Re: Finding out how a Bike's Performance Changes with Changes to Components

[Drw]

Ugh, I’m in the middle of one of these episodes right now. Im also about 300$ 
further in than I expected. Usually I can recoup some loss by reselling, so 
that’s some consolation. Curiosity stings.

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[RBW] FS: Various Parts - Sugino, Brand V, Rivet, etc.

[Kieran J]

   
   
Hi,

I have a few parts dug out of the drawers that may be of interest to some. 
All prices do NOT include shipping. I can ship to Canada and the US via 
Canada Post/USPS.

   - MKS Sylan touring pedals. OK shape, bearings need some grease. $15.
   - Sugino Alpina 2 double crankset. 165mm, 110 BCD. Original fancy CNC'd 
   48/34 rings in excellent shape. $85.
   - Shimano Deore DX MT-60 crankarms. 175mm, 110/74BCD. Could use a 
   polish. $20.
   - Rivendell/Brand V saddle bag. Great shape. $35.
   - Shimano Deore XT M732 rear hub. 32H, 135mm OLD and 7spd HG cassette 
   compatible. NOS, never laced. I polished it up and replaced the original 
   lube with new Phil Wood grease. $35.
   - Thomson Elite 1-1/8th threadless stem. 25.4mm clamp, 120mm extension, 
   +/-15 degrees. Excellent shape. $25.
   - (2) Trek plastic headbadges from the 1980s. As shown. $20.
   - Avid Shorty 6 canti brakes. Used shape but complete and working great. 
   $35.
   - Rivet Pearl leather touring saddle. Black. Near mint! $90 or would 
   trade for a Brooks C19 Carved.
   
Pics HERE. 


Kieran
Victoria, BC

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[RBW] Ride Report: Little Silver Clem

[Joe Bernard]

"It is a stallion, not a pony."

I love that kid! 😁

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[RBW] Re: FS: Three Sackville Saddlesacks and two Nitto R-14 rear racks (with tombstone)

[Bill Lindsay]

Both Mediums claimed, and one rack claimed.  Only the Saddlesack Large and 
rack are available.  

On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 1:02:07 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> I've got some extra rear saddlesacks that I would like to make available 
> to you.  
>
> 1. Sackville Saddlesack Large, Olive.  I bought this from Rivendell in 
> late 2009.  It's the old original version with the metal badge and the 
> original leather bottom.  It has some basic beausage but is in great 
> shape.  I converted the closure to Captain Hook style.  No extra charge for 
> the bag flair, but no discount if you take out the buttons and there are 
> holes from the pins left behind.  $180 shipped.
>
> 2. Sackville Saddlesack Medium, Olive.  I bought this from Rivendell in 
> maybe 2014.  It has the fabric label, not the metal badge, but it has the 
> leather bottom.  I hardly used this bag at all, and perhaps never on a 
> campout.  It's functionally as-new.  It has also been converted to Captain 
> Hook closures.  $165 shipped
>
> 3. Sackville Saddlesack Medium, Sapphire. I bought this from Rivendell new 
> and it's never been used.  I had a Sapphire blue ensemble that I was going 
> to use on a particular build and ended up executing a different build.  The 
> matching Sapphire blue Shopsack is now super beat up because I use it 
> constantly.  This one has the newer fabric bottom.  $180 shipped.  
>
> 4. A Nitto R-14 Rear rack with tombstone.  I bought this when I bought bag 
> #1 above.  It's been used a few times on a few different bikes. I just 
> pulled it from the rear of my HubbuHubbuH tandem.  For now, I will only 
> sell it along with bag #1 or bag #2.  I'll work with you on the struts you 
> need.  $80 shipped along with the purchase of either bag #1 or bag #2
>
> 5. A new Nitto R-14 rear rack with tombstone.  I bought this new from Riv 
> for setup with bag #2, but never got around to setting it up.  I'll work 
> with you to get you the strut setup you need.  $90 shipped along with the 
> purchase of either bag #1 or bag #2
>
> If you don't understand why I'm only letting the racks go with a bag 
> purchase, it's that the tombstone style R-14 is no longer available, and 
> that is the best setup for the leather-bottom Sackvilles. If I'm keeping 
> either of the leather bottom Sackvilles, I want to keep the R-14 to go with 
> it. If the bags sell without racks, then I'll sell the racks separately.
>
> FLICKR ALBUM of photos 
> 
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>

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Re: [RBW] Ride Report: Little Silver Clem

[Patrick Moore]

Leah: great overview and interview, though I do think I heard some leading
questions. Anyway, nice bike, nice kid, at least to judge both by looks.

Patrick "are 12-year-olds really that small?" Moore

On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 4:58 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
jonasandle...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ride Report: Little Silver Clem
>
>
> In the spirit of this List, I’ve decided to extract a ride report from 12
> year old Ethan, who has been riding his 45 cm Clem Smith Jr. for 8 days. We
> got the saddle and bars dialed in exactly on Day One. The other days have
> consisted of the school commute, rides to the park and around the
> neighborhood hunting fall colors and letting the wind blow in our hair. If
> you haven't read the original story of how this little bike came to be, it
> can be found under *A Boy, A Bike, and A Benefactor* in this Google
> Group.
>
>
>
> *Q: How would you describe the look of your Little Silver Clem? What are
> your favorite parts of the bike?*
>
> My Silver Clem looks absolutely perfect. I love the colored spoke ends, my
> lug, and the saddle. I love the spoke ends because of their multi-color
> personality. I like the design and creativity of the lug. And the saddle is
> awesome because it has copper hammered into it and is real leather!
>
>
> *Q: How does it feel to be one of the only 12 year olds in the world to
> have a Rivendell bicycle?*
>
> It feels special and delights me every time I think of it. I don't want to
> tell other kids because they might wreck it, or may try to steal it. I feel
> bad for kids who have bikes that are too big or too small and can't enjoy
> biking like I can. I do feel pressure to keep it perfect; I'm scared of
> putting it in the rack.
>
>
> *Q: How do you feel about the:*
>
>
> * 1. Ride of your bike?*
>
>It feels smooth, and whenever I stop moving my pedals, the
> bike makes a satisfying clicking sound. The wheels are fat and make a
> whirring sound. It doesn't slide; it feels stable.
>
>
> * 2. Neutral position of your hands after years of flat bars?*
>
>It's a big change, and feels awkward. But now that I've ridden
> it a bit more, I've gotten used to it and I'm starting to like it. I also
> love my cork grips and I shellacked them myself; I'm kind of proud of them.
>
>
>I like the shifters on my bike; they're different from the
> ones I had on my previous bike. They don't have any numbers to show what
> gear I'm in so I do it by feel, and it's all the more fun to try to figure
> it
>
>out.
>
> * 3. Weight of the bike? You are only 71 pounds, and this is a big bike. *
>
>I don't mind it. If I get a rack and start carrying my own
> stuff, I might notice.
>
>
>
> *Q: Was there anything you really had to get used to on your Clem?*
>
> The handles and the gears. Definitely. Lifting my leg over the bar and the
> having to wear down my saddle because it was super stiff.
>
>
>
> *Q: Who is prettier? The Little Silver Clem or TBBITW (The Best Bike in
> the World, my Betty Foy)? Be careful how you answer this.*
>
> I'll say the Betty Foy because my bike is not pretty. It is a *stallion*,
> not a pony. It in no way is close to beautiful, pretty, or gorgeous. It is
> handsome and manly.
>
>
>
> *Q. How do you feel the Little Silver Clem handles the hilly country in
> which we live?*
>
> It's a little scarier to ride downhill since I'm getting used to my bike,
> but I'll get the hang of it. Uphill feels the same!
>
>
>
> *Q: Would you say your mother looks 10 years younger when she test rides
> the Little Silver Clem? You would say it imparts to her a fun, girlish
> quality, wouldn’t you? WOULDN’T YOU?!?*
>
> This is a trap. I plead the 5th.
>
>
> *Q: Who do you think would win a race up Killer Hill? The Little Silver
> Clem or TBBITW?*
>
> My Silver Clem because I'm more competitive than you.
>
>
>
> *Q: Where would be your ideal place to ride your Little Silver Clem? *
>
> Smooth, flat land. Cities would be great because you can get from place to
> place. You have a destination and there's stuff to explore in the city. It
> could have bike lanes!
>
>
>
> *Q: You have had an awful lot of kindness come your way these past weeks.
> Mostly in the form of boxes containing a bike all the best things to adorn
> your bike with. What is it like to find yourself given such treasures?*
>
> It's immensely humbling and I'm grateful for all I've received. I feel
> fortunate to have such a kind benefactor and kind people send these
> presents - it's like Christmas!
>
>
>
> *Q: Do you think you would like to be someone’s benefactor someday? How
> can you be sure not to let these kindnesses end with you?*
>
> I would. I would like to continue the joy I've been given. I think my bike
> will be a standing reminder of the kindness I've received and that I can be
> the one to light up someone's world.
>
>
> *Q: What would you like to say to the RivPeople who have been so good to
> you?*
>
> I would like to thank them 

[RBW] Go Get A Clem, Folks! Clem H Initial Ride Report - 28 Oct 2018

[Lum Gim Fong]

How is it going up hill? Does it bog down and lose momentum quickly or keep 
gliding along with your pedal strokes?

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[RBW] Re: Ride Report: Little Silver Clem

[dougP]

Leah:

Thanks for following up on the adventure.  I really like his comment on the 
shifters:

"They don't have any numbers to show what gear I'm in so I do it by feel, 
and it's all the more fun to try to figure it"

For people who can't imagine friction shifting:  A 12yo figured it out & 
likes it because it's fun.  That must have put some smiles on faces at 
Rivendell.

dougP

On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 3:58:42 PM UTC-7, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> Ride Report: Little Silver Clem
>
>
> In the spirit of this List, I’ve decided to extract a ride report from 12 
> year old Ethan, who has been riding his 45 cm Clem Smith Jr. for 8 days. We 
> got the saddle and bars dialed in exactly on Day One. The other days have 
> consisted of the school commute, rides to the park and around the 
> neighborhood hunting fall colors and letting the wind blow in our hair. If 
> you haven't read the original story of how this little bike came to be, it 
> can be found under *A Boy, A Bike, and A Benefactor* in this Google 
> Group. 
>
>
>
> *Q: How would you describe the look of your Little Silver Clem? What are 
> your favorite parts of the bike?*
>
> My Silver Clem looks absolutely perfect. I love the colored spoke ends, my 
> lug, and the saddle. I love the spoke ends because of their multi-color 
> personality. I like the design and creativity of the lug. And the saddle is 
> awesome because it has copper hammered into it and is real leather!
>
>
> *Q: How does it feel to be one of the only 12 year olds in the world to 
> have a Rivendell bicycle?*
>
> It feels special and delights me every time I think of it. I don't want to 
> tell other kids because they might wreck it, or may try to steal it. I feel 
> bad for kids who have bikes that are too big or too small and can't enjoy 
> biking like I can. I do feel pressure to keep it perfect; I'm scared of 
> putting it in the rack.
>
>
> *Q: How do you feel about the:*
>
>
> * 1. Ride of your bike?*
>
>It feels smooth, and whenever I stop moving my pedals, the 
> bike makes a satisfying clicking sound. The wheels are fat and make a 
> whirring sound. It doesn't slide; it feels stable. 
>
>
> * 2. Neutral position of your hands after years of flat bars?*
>
>It's a big change, and feels awkward. But now that I've ridden 
> it a bit more, I've gotten used to it and I'm starting to like it. I also 
> love my cork grips and I shellacked them myself; I'm kind of proud of them. 
>   
>
>I like the shifters on my bike; they're different from the 
> ones I had on my previous bike. They don't have any numbers to show what 
> gear I'm in so I do it by feel, and it's all the more fun to try to figure 
> it
>
>out.
>
> * 3. Weight of the bike? You are only 71 pounds, and this is a big bike. *
>
>I don't mind it. If I get a rack and start carrying my own 
> stuff, I might notice.
>
>
>
> *Q: Was there anything you really had to get used to on your Clem?*
>
> The handles and the gears. Definitely. Lifting my leg over the bar and the 
> having to wear down my saddle because it was super stiff. 
>
>
>
> *Q: Who is prettier? The Little Silver Clem or TBBITW (The Best Bike in 
> the World, my Betty Foy)? Be careful how you answer this.*
>
> I'll say the Betty Foy because my bike is not pretty. It is a *stallion*, 
> not a pony. It in no way is close to beautiful, pretty, or gorgeous. It is 
> handsome and manly.
>
>
>
> *Q. How do you feel the Little Silver Clem handles the hilly country in 
> which we live?*
>
> It's a little scarier to ride downhill since I'm getting used to my bike, 
> but I'll get the hang of it. Uphill feels the same!
>
>
>
> *Q: Would you say your mother looks 10 years younger when she test rides 
> the Little Silver Clem? You would say it imparts to her a fun, girlish 
> quality, wouldn’t you? WOULDN’T YOU?!?*
>
> This is a trap. I plead the 5th.
>
>
> *Q: Who do you think would win a race up Killer Hill? The Little Silver 
> Clem or TBBITW?*
>
> My Silver Clem because I'm more competitive than you.
>
>
>
> *Q: Where would be your ideal place to ride your Little Silver Clem? *
>
> Smooth, flat land. Cities would be great because you can get from place to 
> place. You have a destination and there's stuff to explore in the city. It 
> could have bike lanes!
>
>
>
> *Q: You have had an awful lot of kindness come your way these past weeks. 
> Mostly in the form of boxes containing a bike all the best things to adorn 
> your bike with. What is it like to find yourself given such treasures?*
>
> It's immensely humbling and I'm grateful for all I've received. I feel 
> fortunate to have such a kind benefactor and kind people send these 
> presents - it's like Christmas!
>
>
>
> *Q: Do you think you would like to be someone’s benefactor someday? How 
> can you be sure not to let these kindnesses end with you?*
>
> I would. I would like to continue the joy I've been given. I think my bike 
> will be a st

Re: [RBW] Ride Report: Little Silver Clem

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Well, most 12 year olds aren’t as small as Ethan, and the same can be said of 
my younger son for his age. Maybe if I bought meat fed/treated with hormones 
and antibiotics? More sugar? I don’t know, but these have been my theories. The 
genes on both sides code for tall people, so I think he’ll get there 
eventually! 

Also, leading questions?! I would never! 

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[RBW] Re: Finding out how a Bike's Performance Changes with Changes to Components

[Lum Gim Fong]

Very costly to experiment and laborious if you do the wrenching yourself.

Lets say you wanted to try dyno lights fenders and a front bag:
$550 for dyno front wheel custom built
$80 for front rack (and thats a cheaper rack)
100-250$ for decent headlight that will never shine as good as the online 
vendors pics make them appear.
90$ berthoud fenders
25$ for the fender sundries you will find you need after 3 days of trying to 
mountvthem without them and the shipping for them since almost noone on earth 
carries Berthoud fender hardware except 4 online vendors. At any given time 
only two of the three will have stock.
But then you are off to the VO online store for more fender hardware you will 
need -$20
Front bag -$180-250$
Dang! I need a decaleur?? What’s that?
$165 is what that  is, since the three online vendors will never ever have the 
affordable Berthoud decaleurs in stock ever. EVER!!! So off to Compass website 
for that decaleur and you can kiss that last dollar goodbye.

But now you have your setup complete. It will work great for a long time. 
Amortizes $20 years?




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[RBW] Re: Finding out how a Bike's Performance Changes with Changes to Components

[Brewster Fong]

On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 4:22:42 AM UTC-7, Steve Cole wrote:
>
> So my question is what can the bike industry do to help cyclists better 
> understand the component choices they have and the effects on riding will 
> be with different components?  
>

Lol, there is or use to be a place where cyclists could go to get help 
understanding component choices - a bike shop. However, where shops have 
moved to "concept stores" or  the internet has force shops to carry the 
bare minimum of stock, unfortunately, most shops are not very helpful, 
especially for ibob/Riv related components. 

May be contact Riv to see if they have a dealer near you who could assist 
or at least answer questions. 

I know, Good Luck!

>
> Sorry for running on so long.
>
> Steve Cole
> Arlington, Virginia
>

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[RBW] New Build: Yves Gomez - Drop Bar Mixte

[Lum Gim Fong]

Yes!!!Yes!!!Yes!!!
Baddest mixte I ever seen!!!
Drops on a mixte
Yes!
About time people started revisiting this!!

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[RBW] New Build: Yves Gomez - Drop Bar Mixte

[Lum Gim Fong]

You need a bike license plate on the saddle that says:
“Riding drops is not a crime.”.

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[RBW] Re: Finding out how a Bike's Performance Changes with Changes to Components

[Lum Gim Fong]

Charles Pliesse at College Park Bikes in College Park MD will help you with 
options. Former rivdealer. He knows where we are coming from.

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[RBW] Re: Finding out how a Bike's Performance Changes with Changes to Components

[Lum Gim Fong]

As for the industry:
They will tell you what a product is supposed to do for you but you won’t know 
if true or false until you use the component yourself. This, of course, is 
after you have bought the item. So best thing is  to research what a product is 
told will do for you, then read reviews by users on various internet cycling 
pages to get opinions from end users. Not cycling publications but forums and 
independent cycling pages like there is a mountain biker page that does tons of 
real user reviews on all kindsa bike stuff. etc.
That said, top “experts” will all conflict in their beliefs which is why 
everyday people reviewers are best.

Example:
BQ says 650b fastest. Points to Herse as 650b bike designer.
Boulder Bikes says that is a industry myth and that 700c is fastest which is 
why Herse changed to 700c in later years.
Lon Haldeman said that muscles, not bikes win races.
I would extrapolate that to mean it dont matter what you ride; if you slow, you 
slow.
After many component purchases alleging they will make me faster I have come to 
agree with Lon Haldeman. My legs just don’t have the muscle power to go more 
than 16 mile per hour average speeds no matter what I ride. I am just slow.
Now some things I have found to be true:
Wider supple tires make for a cushier ride than narrow tires pumped to 100+ psi.
Rounded tire profiles (Grand Bois tires) corner smoother and  better and are 
less divy than oval shaped tire profiles(Marathons).

But these things I had to find out by trying, even after user reviews.
Sometimes only one review found can address what you are wanting to know before 
buying and trying:
Do Selle Anatomica X2?saddles have as much suspension as a sprung Brooks saddle?
Here is the one answer you will find online based on me riding 2 of each:
Almost. Very close. Enough that you can ride an X2 with just aboutvthe same 
level of bounce and cush. And at 1/2 the weight.

Also, the reviewer should be like you. If you are a regular person and not a 
racer, listen to what the regular reviewers are saying. I think sometimes some 
performance enhancements of products can only be realized by elite riders, like 
speed gains of bladed spokes and aero, lightest bike frames, etc.

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[RBW] Re: Finding out how a Bike's Performance Changes with Changes to Components

[Bill Schairer]

I’m always a bit surprised at all the stuff I see up for sale here, 
particularly all the stuff that is so great but seems to be available with very 
little use.  I keep wondering if it is so great why do I always see the stuff 
up for sale.  All my stuff tends to stick with me for life (thus far), for 
better or worse.

Bill

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[RBW] New Build: Yves Gomez - Drop Bar Mixte

[Joe Bernard]

Riding drops is a crime for my arthritic wrist, but that looks so cool!

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Binder bolt

[Lum Gim Fong]

Now Joe, you know you can cut that bolt off with the nut on it and then back 
out the  screw and that nut’ll clean those threads on the way out.

Or buy a security bolt from bicyclebolts.com

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[RBW] Re: Finding out how a Bike's Performance Changes with Changes to Components

[Lum Gim Fong]

One reason could be that people change their setups alot around here.
Another could be that every component has a good side and bad side:
Supple tyres? Flats/short lived tread life
Berthoud GB25 bags: amazingly functional but over 600g EMPTY and WITHOUT 
stiffner. Hea-vy!! Thats why i sold mine. But worked great. But every time  i 
picked it up even empty i was reminded what i was schlepping up hills.
Also, alot of untried componentry gets bought online here, so while that 
moustache bar is touted as comfortable, it may be torture for you. Off to RBR 
forum to sell it.

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Binder bolt

[Joe Bernard]

Sure if I had a bolt cutting device. I don't think I own such an implement. 

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Binder bolt

[Lum Gim Fong]

Hacksaw.
Unscrew nut off afterwards. Will clean threads.

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[RBW] Re: Coverting a Rivendell to Lower Trail

[Craig Montgomery]

Hey John, 

I converted an early All Rounder to low trail with a new fork. Got tired of 
manhandling a front load with the style of touring I do.  The geometry was 
more traditional British with a 72 seat and 73 head but the fork rake gave 
it something like a 60mm trail.  Unladen this geometry was fine but you can 
feel the difference with loads in the new configuration:  
https://www.flickr.com/photos/24722971@N05/albums/72157630754272634

The result was interesting. Not awe-inspiring but satisfyingly 
smile-worthy.The 60mm rake made the front end lighter, a bit flakier (you 
get used to that), and more amenable to front loads. I still get the 
wobblies up front but that's more the older weaker me than the bike. 
Hellfire, anyone who can keep a front end straight at 3 mph up a dirt 
incline on a fully loaded bike is alright in my book. I can't. Here's my 
typical set up:  
 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/24722971@N05/29460145875/in/album-72157673327069476/

Your issues will be minimal and none should be bad. I've converted a couple 
of frames now and you won't get warts. 

Craig in Tucson



On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 12:13:07 PM UTC-7, John Hawrylak wrote:
>
> Has anyone converted a Rivendell to a lower trail front geometry?  If so, 
> did the change result in problems?   
>
> Was wondering if the laid back STA & HTA used on Rivendells has an affect 
> when going to a lower trail.
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Binder bolt

[Joe Bernard]

Nope. No hacksaw, nothing to hold the bolt with if I had a hacksaw. I'll just 
live with the long one 'til I get tired of looking at it, then buy the proper 
bolt. Did you know MIT bikes are shipped to Riv without a binder bolt? Me, 
neither!

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[RBW] Re: Finding out how a Bike's Performance Changes with Changes to Components

[Joe Bernard]

Hey, at least y'all didn't buy a WHOLE BIKE to find out you're not into low 
trail. Don't be like me!

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